OMG! Tiki admits that he may hurt FF owners. (1 Viewer)

[Capella]

If you changed the second line of your thread title to "On PTI he said Dayne may get the goal line", you would've echoed the "Shark" sentiment a year ago. And thanks largely to that miscalculation, Tiki ended up being one of the blockbuster value picks of 2004.

Tiki's value is not in his goal line work. It's that he's the main cog in that offensive machine, who will catch 50+ passes, average 4.5+ yards or better per rush, and get you some TDs in line with 2nd tier TD performers.

If you look at threads, that was not Shark sentiment and FBG missed the boat on Tiki last year.Obviously it is difficult projectnig for everyone, but don't act like you hit it.

 

[ericttspikes]

And as others have said, this isn't the first time there's been a RB expected to do those things instead of Barber with the Giants. I think Jacobs may just be the real thing as well, but you have to admit that it does get funny hearing the same old thing with regard to Barber every single season.

I'll say it again: Ron Dayne was a fraud as a power back. Jacobs is not. IMO, of course.This has little to do with Barber or the Giants as an organization. It has everything to do with who the goalline back is.

It is obvious that Dayne didn't pan out as a Giant, but Ron was a monster at Wisconsin. His 1996 rookie year was stunning. 4 -200 yard games, 339 vs Hawaii, 289 vs. Illinois etc. I'm not sure why that didn't translate at the NFL level, but he had talent and was hardly a fraud.Why is Jacobs getting a pass before playing in his first NFL game? What has he done that indicates he is any better than Dayne coming into the NFL. Nothing, other than he is a big, fast guy, point to him doing anything in the NFL. There are other big, fast guys playing D too. Brandon should be worth a late pick based on the hype, but I wouldn't be suprised if he falls flat and Tiki has another great year.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

If you changed the second line of your thread title to "On PTI he said Dayne may get the goal line", you would've echoed the "Shark" sentiment a year ago. And thanks largely to that miscalculation, Tiki ended up being one of the blockbuster value picks of 2004.

Tiki's value is not in his goal line work. It's that he's the main cog in that offensive machine, who will catch 50+ passes, average 4.5+ yards or better per rush, and get you some TDs in line with 2nd tier TD performers.

If you look at threads, that was not Shark sentiment and FBG missed the boat on Tiki last year.Obviously it is difficult projectnig for everyone, but don't act like you hit it.

That's not true - there were a lot of threads talking about Dayne either being the GL back or even spiltting carries 50/50 with Tiki. A lot - I posted links in another thread.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

And as others have said, this isn't the first time there's been a RB expected to do those things instead of Barber with the Giants. I think Jacobs may just be the real thing as well, but you have to admit that it does get funny hearing the same old thing with regard to Barber every single season.

I'll say it again: Ron Dayne was a fraud as a power back. Jacobs is not. IMO, of course.This has little to do with Barber or the Giants as an organization. It has everything to do with who the goalline back is.

It is obvious that Dayne didn't pan out as a Giant, but Ron was a monster at Wisconsin. His 1996 rookie year was stunning. 4 -200 yard games, 339 vs Hawaii, 289 vs. Illinois etc. I'm not sure why that didn't translate at the NFL level, but he had talent and was hardly a fraud.Why is Jacobs getting a pass before playing in his first NFL game? What has he done that indicates he is any better than Dayne coming into the NFL. Nothing, other than he is a big, fast guy, point to him doing anything in the NFL. There are other big, fast guys playing D too. Brandon should be worth a late pick based on the hype, but I wouldn't be suprised if he falls flat and Tiki has another great year.

Dayne was proven to be a RB that couldn't make things happen on his own. He needed a very strong offensive line in front of him like he had at Wisconsin to be successful. I'm not giving Jacobs a "pass". I just happen to like the kid and think he'll be an excellent short yardage RB. What has any rookie RB done in the NFL this year? NOTHING.

But, if I had to pick one RB in this entire draft class that would be a good short yardage back...Jacobs would be at or near the top of the list. As a 1st round pick, Dayne was supposed to expected to become a feature RB. Jacobs has no such pressure on him.

Frank Coyle had these things to say about Jacobs:

"Is a powerfully built massive tailback who has a huge chiseled frame and combines quickness, power and cutting skills to run inside as well as any back in this class. He has rare size for a tailback and is a throwback to the single backfields that featured runners like Marion Butts and Christian Okoye. He makes sound fast decisions to hit the hole with authority. His strength translates well to the football field with the ability to make the tough yardage in any situation especially in goal line situations. He had 19 TDs as a senior. Is a very tough goal line runner reminiscent of Zack Crockett in that area, though much superior as an overall performer. As a goalline runner, he can make defenders miss, but relies mainly on his outstanding power to go through defenders with the leg drive to make the toughest yardage. He has responded well to big game situations and been tested against top competition in the SEC."

From what I've seen of Jacobs so far in the preseason, these comments seem right on.

 

[LHUCKS]

I will be more concerned with Jacobs taking substantial chunks of touches from Tiki when he's got a bit more experience under his belt. I agree with Ruds that he has the tools to be an impact NFL player...I think we just disagree on the timing of that impact.

 

[toofunny]

Once again Lhucks shows he doesn't know anything about RB's.

Intersting how in THIS POST, he dropped Barber from 30% of his '04 TD's to over 50%.

So, how much is a handfull?

And what is "Goaline" to you?

I love it. When someone points out that you're wrong, just change the definition.

Like last year when his take on Chris Brown went from "He's not talented or fast enough to start in the NFL" to "He's too injury prone".

Even though you said you'd take D.Foster over him.

Barber in '05 = Barber in '03.

You're the guy who said SJAX is a lock for top 5 RB this year. And that Martz was going to go to a power running game and get away from all this throwing stuff. *lol*When you live in a glass house full of hype, don't throw stones.

 

[Gerg73]

You're the guy who said SJAX is a lock for top 5 RB this year. And that Martz was going to go to a power running game and get away from all this throwing stuff. *lol*When you live in a glass house full of hype, don't throw stones.

What does my pimping of Jackson have to do with LHUCKS changing the definitions of words to meet his argument?He went from saying only a "Handfull" of Tiiki's TD's were from a short distance to saying that he was dropping his TD's by 30%, then said he's bet he had at least 6, which would be over 50% drop.And I NEVER said Martz would go to a "Power Running Game". I did say Stephen Jackson is a Top 5 RB this year and should be picked ahead of the likes of Tiki, Rudi and the 2nd tier RB's going in the early 2nd in Drafts. Lamont Jordan should be too.Nice try though.

 

[rowdyroddypiper]

And as others have said, this isn't the first time there's been a RB expected to do those things instead of Barber with the Giants. I think Jacobs may just be the real thing as well, but you have to admit that it does get funny hearing the same old thing with regard to Barber every single season.

I'll say it again: Ron Dayne was a fraud as a power back. Jacobs is not. IMO, of course.This has little to do with Barber or the Giants as an organization. It has everything to do with who the goalline back is.

It is obvious that Dayne didn't pan out as a Giant, but Ron was a monster at Wisconsin. His 1996 rookie year was stunning. 4 -200 yard games, 339 vs Hawaii, 289 vs. Illinois etc. I'm not sure why that didn't translate at the NFL level, but he had talent and was hardly a fraud.Why is Jacobs getting a pass before playing in his first NFL game? What has he done that indicates he is any better than Dayne coming into the NFL. Nothing, other than he is a big, fast guy, point to him doing anything in the NFL. There are other big, fast guys playing D too. Brandon should be worth a late pick based on the hype, but I wouldn't be suprised if he falls flat and Tiki has another great year.

Dayne was proven to be a RB that couldn't make things happen on his own. He needed a very strong offensive line in front of him like he had at Wisconsin to be successful. I'm not giving Jacobs a "pass". I just happen to like the kid and think he'll be an excellent short yardage RB. What has any rookie RB done in the NFL this year? NOTHING.

But, if I had to pick one RB in this entire draft class that would be a good short yardage back...Jacobs would be at or near the top of the list. As a 1st round pick, Dayne was supposed to expected to become a feature RB. Jacobs has no such pressure on him.

Frank Coyle had these things to say about Jacobs:

"Is a powerfully built massive tailback who has a huge chiseled frame and combines quickness, power and cutting skills to run inside as well as any back in this class. He has rare size for a tailback and is a throwback to the single backfields that featured runners like Marion Butts and Christian Okoye. He makes sound fast decisions to hit the hole with authority. His strength translates well to the football field with the ability to make the tough yardage in any situation especially in goal line situations. He had 19 TDs as a senior. Is a very tough goal line runner reminiscent of Zack Crockett in that area, though much superior as an overall performer. As a goalline runner, he can make defenders miss, but relies mainly on his outstanding power to go through defenders with the leg drive to make the toughest yardage. He has responded well to big game situations and been tested against top competition in the SEC."

From what I've seen of Jacobs so far in the preseason, these comments seem right on.

Okay, this is really too much for me to take, is the Kool-Aid really that good. Anyone who believes Jacobs was "tested against top competition in the SEC" is so clearly ignoring facts that it becomes hard to take what they say at face value. Fact: Jacobs had a whopping 72 carries in his career with AUburn. He was there for one year. Prior to that he spent 2 years in running the Gauntlet of the Jayhawk Conference for a JuCo. To get more playing time (I can't blame the guy, sharing a backfield with Caddy and Ronny can't be that comfortable) he transferred to Southern Illinois and ran roughshod over the mighty Gateway conference for a year. I'm not sure a big game has ever been played in the Gateway conference.

I appreciate the guy has looked good in training camp and I'm sure that he's got a shot to contribute. I just wish that people's assessment of him were more grounded in fact than hyperbole and misinformation.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Okay, this is really too much for me to take, is the Kool-Aid really that good. Anyone who believes Jacobs was "tested against top competition in the SEC" is so clearly ignoring facts that it becomes hard to take what they say at face value. Fact: Jacobs had a whopping 72 carries in his career with AUburn. He was there for one year. Prior to that he spent 2 years in running the Gauntlet of the Jayhawk Conference for a JuCo. To get more playing time (I can't blame the guy, sharing a backfield with Caddy and Ronny can't be that comfortable) he transferred to Southern Illinois and ran roughshod over the mighty Gateway conference for a year. I'm not sure a big game has ever been played in the Gateway conference. I appreciate the guy has looked good in training camp and I'm sure that he's got a shot to contribute. I just wish that people's assessment of him were more grounded in fact than hyperbole and misinformation.

Coyle reports that Jacobs had 446 yards on 76 carries at Auburn (5.9 y/r) with two 100-yard rushing games and a 31 carry, 182 yard game against Mississippi St.I agree it's not a whole lot to go on, but he is indeed more tested than the typical Div I-AA prospect.

 

[TD Ryan]

I appreciate the guy has looked good in training camp and I'm sure that he's got a shot to contribute. I just wish that people's assessment of him were more grounded in fact than hyperbole and misinformation.

this is worth repeating.

 

[rowdyroddypiper]

Okay, this is really too much for me to take, is the Kool-Aid really that good.  Anyone who believes Jacobs was "tested against top competition in the SEC" is so clearly ignoring facts that it becomes hard to take what they say at face value. 

Fact:  Jacobs had a whopping 72 carries in his career with AUburn.  He was there for one year.  Prior to that he spent 2 years in running the Gauntlet of the Jayhawk Conference for a JuCo.  To get more playing time (I can't blame the guy, sharing a backfield with Caddy and Ronny can't be that comfortable) he transferred to Southern Illinois and ran roughshod over the mighty Gateway conference for a year.  I'm not sure a big game has ever been played in the Gateway conference.

I appreciate the guy has looked good in training camp and I'm sure that he's got a shot to contribute.  I just wish that people's assessment of him were more grounded in fact than hyperbole and misinformation.

Coyle reports that Jacobs had 446 yards on 76 carries at Auburn (5.9 y/r) with two 100-yard rushing games and a 31 carry, 182 yard game against Mississippi St.I agree it's not a whole lot to go on, but he is indeed more tested than the typical Div I-AA prospect.

Okay, not much more we can do on this front. If he's putting these stats I can hardly accuse the guy of misinforming people. Drawing a dubious conclusion from a small sample size yes, outright misinformation, no. One thing that people aren't questioning about Jacobs (to the contrary they salivate over it) is his size. He's the tallest running back currently in the league, and if it weren't for Nick Luchey (a fullback) I believe he'd be the heaviest. It's not an established fact that 6-4, 260# is a good size for a half back. Eddie George was the closest in size (6-3, 240#) but he averaged only 3.65 YPC over his career.

 

[packersfan]

And as others have said, this isn't the first time there's been a RB expected to do those things instead of Barber with the Giants. I think Jacobs may just be the real thing as well, but you have to admit that it does get funny hearing the same old thing with regard to Barber every single season.

I'll say it again: Ron Dayne was a fraud as a power back. Jacobs is not. IMO, of course.

And I'll say it again -- Dayne entered the league with a MUCH stronger pedigree than Jacobs. He was the Heisman Trophy winner for cryin out loud. And what you continue to ignore is that Dayne did give the Giants some decent production as a rookie. Nearly 800 yards and 5 TDs while sharing time isn't poor production by any means. Do you think Jacobs will deliver 800 yards rushing this season?Look we're in agreement that Dayne proved to be a dog and a fraud as a power back and we definitely saw signs of the latter in his rookie season. But the fact remains -- and yes it is a fact -- the Giants were very high on Dayne as a rookie, probably moreso than they are with Jacobs right now. So, once again, this isn't the first time the Giants have been giddy over a rookie RB.

This has little to do with Barber or the Giants as an organization. It has everything to do with who the goalline back is.

Agreed. But as we've seen quite a few times before, the plans the Giants make for someone other than Barber in their backfield don't always pan out the way they intended or hoped.

 

[NYG Endzone]

Give up already. Half of you don't see the writing on the wall.

 

[Leroy's Aces]

All people in this post are trying to do is decide whether or not Tiki will come close to attaining last year's numbers. One of the main reasons Tiki was so successful last year was his dedication to power and strength training. He has stated repeatedly that due to his new strength and power workouts, that he is much stronger, heavier and maintains his speed even with that weight. I think he squats in the 600-700 range now, for what it is worth.Now with Jacobs getting some goal-line and short yardage stuff, that does not stop the fact that Tiki, due to his great strength, elusiveness and speed, will break off a bunch of long runs, some of which will result in TDs. According to Draft Sharks, Tiki only had 8 carries inside the 3 last year. Even if he loses 10-20 short yardage carries, including 3rd and 1s for 1st downs, I think that due to his great conditioning and strength program (that he started before the 2004 season), one could expect a very minor decrease in production, yielding a solid #1 RB and a value in the early 2nd round.

 

[Da Guru]

Tiki wants BJ to take the goal line and short yardage pounding, it may extend his career a year or two! Tiki does not care about FF, he wants another year or two with the big $$$$!

 

[NYG Endzone]

Yes. He gets big $ through 2007

 

[SilentReader]

i have Tiki as my RB 2 in a 12 team league. RB's that were drafted after I took him are:-Rudi-Westbrook-MartinI'm considering making a straight up trade offer where I trade Barber and get one of these RB's in return. The league has no points for receptions, and isn't a keeper league. Would it be a good idea for me to trade Tiki for any of these 3, and if so, which one(s)...sorry for the partial hijack...

 

[Johnny Ice]

Some you guys act like Tiki is going to walk away with 0 TDs and Jacobs 13. Please get a grip.

 

[NYG Endzone]

Some you guys act like Tiki is going to walk away with 0 TDs and Jacobs 13. Please get a grip.

where does it say that?

 

[56]

According to Draft Sharks, Tiki only had 8 carries inside the 3 last year.

Interesting, considering he had 9 TDs from inside the 3.

 

[koby925]

i have Tiki as my RB 2 in a 12 team league. RB's that were drafted after I took him are:

-Rudi

-Westbrook

-Martin

I'm considering making a straight up trade offer where I trade Barber and get one of these RB's in return. The league has no points for receptions, and isn't a keeper league. Would it be a good idea for me to trade Tiki for any of these 3, and if so, which one(s)

...sorry for the partial hijack...

If you gets points for the reception yardage, I'd keep Tiki.

 

[theswami]

If you changed the second line of your thread title to "On PTI he said Dayne may get the goal line", you would've echoed the "Shark" sentiment a year ago. And thanks largely to that miscalculation, Tiki ended up being one of the blockbuster value picks of 2004.

Tiki's value is not in his goal line work. It's that he's the main cog in that offensive machine, who will catch 50+ passes, average 4.5+ yards or better per rush, and get you some TDs in line with 2nd tier TD performers.

"Good Posting"....yeah right!Puuulease...Tiki was a value pick last year because he outperformed his projections which were very low...I know this because I drafted him and during the draft I also said, "I cannot believe Tiki is still left so I'll take him." I had a different perspective than many people. Then again I said the same thing about Brad Johnson in the last round of the draft and was VERY wrong about him.

The point is, every year people knock Tiki so he generally represents value BUT this year is a little different because he is ACTUALLY PROJECTED to be a top 10 back so the value may not be there. I like him as my number 2 back (because I get to keep himfrom last year) but he will not represent the points bonanza I expected partially due to a regression to the mean and because of Jacobs.

To think that Tiki represents value with his projections is incorrect. Tiki may get the stats but IF he does, that does not mean that he is a good value pick. All that would mean is that the projections were accurate as compared to last year when they were wildly incorrect.

A large part of Tiki's value is in the yards he gets but if Jacobs takes away some of those TDs he is no longer the top 10 RB he is projected to be.

 

[Black Sunshine]

I passed on Tiki at 2.10 for Chad Johnson. Then I took Stephen Jackson at 3.3 for my RB2 behind Alexander. Late in the draft I grabbed Brandon Jacobs.

 

[H.K.]

Tiki has been steadily falling down the FBG projections used in the VBD app. At the beginning of camp Tiki was rated RB5 for PPR leagues and was projected at 11 TD's, he's now RB11 and is projected at only 8 TD's with declines in reception and yardage totals, too. FBG is slowly coming around....

 

[LHUCKS]

Once again Lhucks shows he doesn't know anything about RB's.

Intersting how in THIS POST, he dropped Barber from 30% of his '04 TD's to over 50%.

So, how much is a handfull?

And what is "Goaline" to you?

I love it. When someone points out that you're wrong, just change the definition.

Like last year when his take on Chris Brown went from "He's not talented or fast enough to start in the NFL" to "He's too injury prone".

Even though you said you'd take D.Foster over him.

Barber in '05 = Barber in '03.

and :11:

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Once again Lhucks shows he doesn't know anything about RB's.

Intersting how in THIS POST, he dropped Barber from 30% of his '04 TD's to over 50%.

So, how much is a handfull?

And what is "Goaline" to you?

I love it. When someone points out that you're wrong, just change the definition.

Like last year when his take on Chris Brown went from "He's not talented or fast enough to start in the NFL" to "He's too injury prone".

Even though you said you'd take D.Foster over him.

Barber in '05 = Barber in '03.

and :11:

and :11: X 2