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On Balance, How Proud Of America Are You? (4 Viewers)

On Balance, How Proud Of America Are You?

  • Extremely Proud of America

    Votes: 47 19.6%
  • Mostly Proud of America

    Votes: 98 40.8%
  • On the fence

    Votes: 55 22.9%
  • Mostly Ashamed of America

    Votes: 30 12.5%
  • Extremely Ashamed of America

    Votes: 10 4.2%

  • Total voters
    240
Nice soundbite to show angst over something that is so insanely complex that you can't possibly fathom all that goes into our actions abroad and the results of those actions. But that sure looks good in a four sentence rant. Do you feel better now? Or do you need to go to your safe place and lament what this nation has done. And if it's such a problem for you, let me help you with your bags. 
Your post is more anti American than mine.  You are of such a weak mind you are offended by others using the first amendment.  You embody the worst of this country.  Sorry to hurt your feelings, you might want to avoid the grown up table.

 
Mostly proud.

No one will likely read all of this, but this thread captures how I feel about patriotism.

"The meaning of patriotism is that we can never really abandon our points of origin without abandoning ourselves. The anti-patriot is rightly wary of nationalism, of the idea that one's country is the greatest, of the penchant to declare superiority. But put to the right test, they will always find out that they can never actually abandon attachment to formative forces, even when flawed, and that one's true *independence*--one's integrity as a person, one's agency--depends on remaining, in some sense, inside our points of origin, even when we have to overcome the damage they have done us."

 
"Mostly proud."  There isn't a country I would rather live in.  The greatest country, all things considered, in my opinion.  Do other countries do some things better than we do?  Of course.  But every country has their own issues, and most do not have the responsibilities (whether we should take them on or not is up for debate) that the US does.

Would have gone extremely proud, but there are issues (race, gender equality, many more) that we should be much further down the road on, but progress isn't always as fast as we would like it to be.

 
Regarding "no middle ground", while many posts in this thread support that, the poll results here do not.

Also, the theme of this thread is introspection. It's great hear from non-US posters, but not everyone here knows who the non-US posters are. Including that in posts would add some useful context. 🍁
Well, the non-US thing is kind of my point, I think if this question was posed to citizens of Canada, Japan, Germany, UK, Sweden, Switzerland, Australia, etc... they would mostly say they were very proud of their country while not immediately jumping to "best country in the world!#!#!#", which honestly in terms of health care, education, poverty/access to food, immigration policy, crime/safety, environmental protection, etc, etc, etc..  by any objective measure the United States isn't #1... which doesn't mean it's not still a great country overall. 

 
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People who believe the USA is the best country to live in haven’t seen the rest of the world and lack objectivity.
So do you have an opinion on what is the best country to live in?

ETA:  Based on your response in the "Countries Visited" thread you should have an informed opinion.

 
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People who believe the USA is the best country to live in haven’t seen the rest of the world and lack objectivity.
That's not really true. Some people have indeed seen a lot of parts of the world many times, have traveled many times to foreign countries, and come back to report that they'd rather live in the USA. We certainly have a net immigration balance.

 
People who believe the USA is the best country to live in haven’t seen the rest of the world and lack objectivity.
Don’t think that’s what the question asked...

Also, I’d also say that it isn’t a contest.  For me, the US is the ‘best’ country to live because being American is very specific to who I am and who I’ve been at my core.  From that standpoint, pride and objectivity aren’t the best bed partners.

 
So do you have an opinion on what is the best country to live in?

ETA:  Based on your response in the "Countries Visited" thread you should have an informed opinion.
Australia, Norway, Switzerland are examples of countries that are light years ahead of us in several meaningful categories.  Every objective quality of living analysis reveals this.

 
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That's not really true. Some people have indeed seen a lot of parts of the world many times, have traveled many times to foreign countries, and come back to report that they'd rather live in the USA. We certainly have a net immigration balance.
Agree to disagree.  

 
On the fence, because I travel often overseas and our exceptionalism has mostly eroded.
This pretty much happens to everybody that is well traveled and thoughtful.

the “America is the greatest” crowd will never get it... but it makes them feel warm and fuzzy and perhaps gives them purpose.  It is what it is.

This isn’t to say there are not great things about the USA, because there obviously are.

 
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Australia, Norway, Switzerland are examples of countries that are light years ahead of us in several meaningful categories.  Every objective quality of living analysis reveals this.
All have universal healthcare systems.  In other words, they're socialist, anti-business cesspools with no individual incentives.  

 
Australia, Norway, Switzerland are examples of countries that are light years ahead of us in several meaningful categories.  Every objective quality of living analysis reveals this.
I don't doubt your comments and I have been to a few other countries (Denmark, Singapore, Japan, Italy, Jamaica, Costa Rica, Canada, Mexico) and they all had their plusses and minuses. 

Would you move to one of the countries you mentioned if you could since you believe they are better countries to live in than USA?  Why or Why not?

 
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I don't doubt your comments and I have been to a few other countries (Denmark, Singapore, Japan, Italy, Jamaica, Costa Rica, Canada, Mexico) and they all had their plusses and minuses. 

Would you move to one of the countries you mentioned if you could since you believe they are better countries to live in than USA?  Why or Why not?
Yes, i'm hoping to move out the country in the next 5 to 10 years.  I don't believe that my life is going to change that drastically by living in another democratic, westernized country.

 
Yes, i'm hoping to move out the country in the next 5 to 10 years.  I don't believe that my life is going to change that drastically by living in another democratic, westernized country.
To what country and why did you choose the country that you did?

 
Extremely ashamed. That we could have moved so far backward in such a short period of time is alarming. More pointedly, and you could argue that this response is due to what's happening very recently, but what is happening at the southern border is an absolute disgrace. I suppose you could read "on balance" as meaning let's average everything out over the past two hundred plus years, in which case my response is overly harsh, but we are a "what have you done for me lately" country and what we have done lately is shameful.
I don’t know why this post inspires you (DN) to respond with a laughing emoji. I see no humor in it.

 
I don't doubt your comments and I have been to a few other countries (Denmark, Singapore, Japan, Italy, Jamaica, Costa Rica, Canada, Mexico) and they all had their plusses and minuses. 

Would you move to one of the countries you mentioned if you could since you believe they are better countries to live in than USA?  Why or Why not?
No I would not.  I’m in my 40s and too invested in this country with friends, family and other aspects of the culture such as sports, film and music.

 I’m also fortunate to have enough money to go wherever I want and live wherever I want so that’s a big factor as well.

If you wiped my brain and I truly entered this exercise without preexisting factors I’d definitely choose one of the countries I mentioned over the USA.  Switzerland or Norway likely presuming I have equivalent wealth.

 
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Your post is more anti American than mine.  You are of such a weak mind you are offended by others using the first amendment.  You embody the worst of this country.  Sorry to hurt your feelings, you might want to avoid the grown up table.
I'm not the one butt hurt over some 3 sentence whine about US foreign policy that you don't understand enough to even elaborate on because it would take more than four sentences. Let's hear your thorough understanding on the subject and why it's such and issue. How about you unpack that argument of yours.

Also, nothing in my post was anti american.

Oh, and I'm not offended. I'm just calling it out for what it is. Ridiculous. But hey, good luck trying to pin your moral outrage and offendedness on someone else. Man, I can't stand the offendatrons. 

 
All have universal healthcare systems.  In other words, they're socialist, anti-business cesspools with no individual incentives.  
Uh.... Yeah, that's not really the case, but we wouldn't want to let logic and facts get in the way of a good debate now would we. 

 
I voted mostly.   So until I get my flying cars that were promised to us back in the day, it is hard to be extremely proud.  It is one of the few american failings that really bothers me.

 
I voted mostly.   So until I get my flying cars that were promised to us back in the day, it is hard to be extremely proud.  It is one of the few american failings that really bothers me.
We really do deserve more than just cell phones and Facebook.

 
I recently traveled in Europe for two months. First trip there and met many people from throughout the world.  I was apologetic when needed for our current administration. I was asked by an Australian why America was considered to be the world's defender of democracy. I do not think that question would have been debatable before. People have forgotten what America did to rebuild the world after WW 2.

 
I recently traveled in Europe for two months. First trip there and met many people from throughout the world.  I was apologetic when needed for our current administration. I was asked by an Australian why America was considered to be the world's defender of democracy. I do not think that question would have been debatable before. People have forgotten what America did to rebuild the world after WW 2.
You really don’t think foreigners have resented America acting as the world’s policeman pre-Trump?  Been that way for decades with people citing issues within America as a reason for America to clean their own house before cleaning others.

 
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Ashamed, in 50 years we will be reviled throughout the planet for bringing on and then doing nothing to stop the melting of the planet.  

 
Ashamed, in 50 years we will be reviled throughout the planet for bringing on and then doing nothing to stop the melting of the planet.  
Uh, no.  If they do, they are misinformed.  We have been actively cleaning up our environment for decades.  China is hands down the biggest problem here and have been for a long time now.

 
I'm not the one butt hurt over some 3 sentence whine about US foreign policy that you don't understand enough to even elaborate on because it would take more than four sentences. Let's hear your thorough understanding on the subject and why it's such and issue. How about you unpack that argument of yours.

Also, nothing in my post was anti american.

Oh, and I'm not offended. I'm just calling it out for what it is. Ridiculous. But hey, good luck trying to pin your moral outrage and offendedness on someone else. Man, I can't stand the offendatrons. 
Yes you are butt hurt, you did the equivalent of taking your ball and going home by telling me to leave.  

But I will give it to the good ole US of A.  They just don't make poor people grovel and hope for health insurance, they make 9/11 first responders beg too.  Proud times.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/where-is-outcry-over-children-killed-by-u-s-led-forces/

 
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Uh, no.  If they do, they are misinformed.  We have been actively cleaning up our environment for decades.  China is hands down the biggest problem here and have been for a long time now.
Because we clearly don't import anything from China.  Right? 

 
I suspect the typical American may be less aware of how things work outside our own country than are people of other countries. If so, that could affect our judgment regarding whether our country is the "best" or not, and the degree of "pride" we feel about this country as it is currently.

I'm not well-traveled myself, but many here are and I'd appreciate hearing thoughts on this.
Well here’s one example. Wife and I were in Ecuador last year, which is essentially still a third world country.

My wife got a nasty bite from some jungle insect and it swelled up like a potato. We had to take her to a clinic. I simply couldn’t believe how quick, efficient and cheap it all went. Waited no more than 5 minutes to see a specialist, and were prescribed 2 medicines which were available right away. The whole thing cost $40 and we were in and out in an hour. It blew me away. 

Try and find any medical clinic or hospital here that is that efficient. 

 
Well here’s one example. Wife and I were in Ecuador last year, which is essentially still a third world country.

My wife got a nasty bite from some jungle insect and it swelled up like a potato. We had to take her to a clinic. I simply couldn’t believe how quick, efficient and cheap it all went. Waited no more than 5 minutes to see a specialist, and were prescribed 2 medicines which were available right away. The whole thing cost $40 and we were in and out in an hour. It blew me away. 

Try and find any medical clinic or hospital here that is that efficient. 
That’s not that cheap when you consider the average monthly household income in Costa Rica is $750.  The US equivalent would be about $300.

 
Mostly proud.

No one will likely read all of this, but this thread captures how I feel about patriotism.

"The meaning of patriotism is that we can never really abandon our points of origin without abandoning ourselves. The anti-patriot is rightly wary of nationalism, of the idea that one's country is the greatest, of the penchant to declare superiority. But put to the right test, they will always find out that they can never actually abandon attachment to formative forces, even when flawed, and that one's true *independence*--one's integrity as a person, one's agency--depends on remaining, in some sense, inside our points of origin, even when we have to overcome the damage they have done us."
Loyalty to one’s country and its ideals, for better or worse,  embodies patriotism, which is usually a good thing. I just don’t care for all the chest pounding bravado and sense of superiority that sometimes accompanies it, though this is probably more correctly identified as nationalism.

 
People who believe the USA is the best country to live in haven’t seen the rest of the world and lack objectivity.
Ummm, an opinion on such an abstract concept is always going to be subjective. But if you believe there truly is a “right” answer, how many countries must one sample to determine which is best? Which countries?

 
Well here’s one example. Wife and I were in Ecuador last year, which is essentially still a third world country.

My wife got a nasty bite from some jungle insect and it swelled up like a potato. We had to take her to a clinic. I simply couldn’t believe how quick, efficient and cheap it all went. Waited no more than 5 minutes to see a specialist, and were prescribed 2 medicines which were available right away. The whole thing cost $40 and we were in and out in an hour. It blew me away. 

Try and find any medical clinic or hospital here that is that efficient. 
That’s not that cheap when you consider the average monthly household income in Costa Rica is $750.  The US equivalent would be about $300.
It would have cost $0 in Canada. And no, in the vast majority of cases, wait times are not an issue.

And yes, I know, this is where someone chimes in "socialism, taxes, wawawawwawawa", and I respond with something about policing or military coming from those same tax $$ in the USA, so let's just skip that part.

 
It would have cost $0 in Canada. And no, in the vast majority of cases, wait times are not an issue.

And yes, I know, this is where someone chimes in "socialism, taxes, wawawawwawawa", and I respond with something about policing or military coming from those same tax $$ in the USA, so let's just skip that part.
I have no issue withdrawing troops and resources out of Europe and SE Asia. Those countries can deal with China and Russia on their own.  I don’t suspect either party is willing to do that though.

 
Uh, no.  If they do, they are misinformed.  We have been actively cleaning up our environment for decades.  China is hands down the biggest problem here and have been for a long time now.
Maybe now. But in the last 50 years?

We are probably the most wasteful society in world history. 

 
Ummm, an opinion on such an abstract concept is always going to be subjective. But if you believe there truly is a “right” answer, how many countries must one sample to determine which is best? Which countries?
Lets start with a quantifiable metric then.

VIOLENT CRIME RATE

your turn

 
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I just don’t care for all the chest pounding bravado and sense of superiority that sometimes accompanies it, though this is probably more correctly identified as nationalism.
Actually that sounds more correctly identified as jingoistic xenophobia.

The US is far from being the worst across any index or ranking. But it continues to slip relative to other countries in terms of socio-economic opportunity, life expectancy, quality of life, freedom -- whether personal freedom, freedom of the press, freedom from corruption -- and so many other factors. Not sure that continued slippage is something to be proud of.

Other countries seem to be doing a better job in terms of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness than the US. 

 
Actually that sounds more correctly identified as jingoistic xenophobia.

The US is far from being the worst across any index or ranking. But it continues to slip relative to other countries in terms of socio-economic opportunity, life expectancy, quality of life, freedom -- whether personal freedom, freedom of the press, freedom from corruption -- and so many other factors. Not sure that continued slippage is something to be proud of.

Other countries seem to be doing a better job in terms of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness than the US. 
Agreed on all counts.

 

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