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Maybe I haven’t seen A Few Good Men in awhile but didn’t Jessup order an illegal beat down of a soldier because he was bad at his job and was going to report a bunch of military violations? and it’s inspired by real events too. I guess this thread just needs to be shut down because it’s already gone political it seems. That wasn’t my intention.
Yes, he did order the Code Red. I don't side with Col. Jessep/Jessup. I find him odious. I was just relaying that many people didn't find what he did to be wrong, but that it was a human calculation to save lives in the end.
And that when you live in a bubble like Aaron Sorkin does, you might write these speeches you think are fundamentally awful and evil, but people see the point and actually agree with it. There's an irony in that.
Oh yeah that happens a lot in all directions. An artist makes something trying to send message A and 75% of people walk away with message B. Fight Club is one of the most obvious.
Also, we all live in bubbles. Some bigger, some smaller. But no person lives in the whole world.
I gotcha. What's weird about that whole Col. Jessup thing is that the writers and artists get a weird way about them, and I've been around this, but in the political world. You'll hit people with an argument and message to advance a policy or position. You'll examine the issue carefully, weigh the points and counterpoints, present them accurately and fairly and damn straight thoroughly. There will be gasps of recognition in the audience, and you will hear laughter and see tears. You will be compelling and delightful, and everybody will stand and applaud your presentation.
And then your side will lose 65-35.
And this is where the weirdness happens—a lot of times in the world of both politics and the arts. There will be some that will reflect, that will be confused, angry, hurt, disappointed, whatever emotion controls the day. And there are a lot of people that will say, "Those morons. They didn't get what they were supposed to get. If they got it, they would have chosen A, not B."
And a lot of people see Hollywood's politics, think about them deeply, and when Hollywood wants A will still choose B.
And then the cycle begins, things get dumbed down to get the message across ,the caricatures and bad faith happens, and artistry and thought is lost in the name of the overriding message. And that's when I tune out.
And I guess that's the thing. I'd likely choose A, but I'm guessing even though I would, this is one of those moments where I'm in that message cycle. And I don't need the two and half hours of this sort of reductiveness depicted along with revolutionary violence and sympathies towards methods and tactics I'm not keen on.
And what's amazing is this is indeed still a guess. But I'd ante up and bet on my assessment without even having seen this.
Arrogant, maybe. But who is more arrogant in this case, auteur or I?
Responses were fascinating. My impression is it'll be revered as one the greatest movies ever made. The audience in Knoxville, TN applauded at the end.
I thought it was ok.
Acting was excellent. Beautifully shot. Required some huge leaps of faith I wasn't expecting. I was surprised at the comedic attempts as I thought it was going to be much more realistic and dramatic. The comedy and ridiculous caricature parts felt weirdly disjointed.
It definitely did not feel too much "action movie". I'm not a big fan of gratitous over the top gross violence and they handled that perfectly I thought.
The political violence and how it was portrayed was nauseating.
The last hour was predictable but also very well done.
The daughter was fantastic and will be a superstar.
I expect I'll be in the very small minority to not be fawning over it.
Weird. Not a single person applauded at a packed theater here in So Cal. I walked out of there having no idea how I felt about the movie. Though for sure it was over hyped. At least they tried to do something big. Just don’t know if they pulled it off. May win awards as there just isn’t much competition these days.
Responses were fascinating. My impression is it'll be revered as one the greatest movies ever made. The audience in Knoxville, TN applauded at the end.
I thought it was ok.
Acting was excellent. Beautifully shot. Required some huge leaps of faith I wasn't expecting. I was surprised at the comedic attempts as I thought it was going to be much more realistic and dramatic. The comedy and ridiculous caricature parts felt weirdly disjointed.
It definitely did not feel too much "action movie". I'm not a big fan of gratitous over the top gross violence and they handled that perfectly I thought.
The political violence and how it was portrayed was nauseating.
The last hour was predictable but also very well done.
The daughter was fantastic and will be a superstar.
I expect I'll be in the very small minority to not be fawning over it.
Weird. Not a single person applauded at a packed theater here in So Cal. I walked out of there having no idea how I felt about the movie. Though for sure it was over hyped. At least they tried to do something big. Just don’t know if they pulled it off. May win awards as there just isn’t much competition these days.
Responses were fascinating. My impression is it'll be revered as one the greatest movies ever made. The audience in Knoxville, TN applauded at the end.
I thought it was ok.
Acting was excellent. Beautifully shot. Required some huge leaps of faith I wasn't expecting. I was surprised at the comedic attempts as I thought it was going to be much more realistic and dramatic. The comedy and ridiculous caricature parts felt weirdly disjointed.
It definitely did not feel too much "action movie". I'm not a big fan of gratitous over the top gross violence and they handled that perfectly I thought.
The political violence and how it was portrayed was nauseating.
The last hour was predictable but also very well done.
The daughter was fantastic and will be a superstar.
I expect I'll be in the very small minority to not be fawning over it.
Weird. Not a single person applauded at a packed theater here in So Cal. I walked out of there having no idea how I felt about the movie. Though for sure it was over hyped. At least they tried to do something big. Just don’t know if they pulled it off. May win awards as there just isn’t much competition these days.
First the political part that others brought up: I can see their point. The movie's villain is a deranged military leader and his crew. It's very Dr. Strangelove in that sense. Our sympathies in the movie definitely lie with the Mexican people, Leo and his kid. Though I don't think those people actually bring some kind of real political ideology with them into the movie. They are just trying to stay safe. The world this exists in is a very cartoonist version of ours. It's clearly not set in a real world and there is some super silly stuff going on with everyone. I don't want to give away any plot but the leftist extremists are quite flawed themselves. I don't think the political violence in this is glorified. I think everyone who engages in it looks somewhere between dumb and monseterous. The way I see the negative portrayals that will have some most up in arms, it isn't about them being military leaders. It's shots at white nationalists/facsists. There are other characters who also fall in this category who aren't military/LEO which I think makes the real butt of the movie's jokes more obvious. Though there sure are a lot of jokes at the expense of leftist burnouts and such.
As for the movie. It was a truly great thriller. Funny, intense, just flew by. Leo is kind of still just playing Rick Dalton but who cares, it's the best. The way PTA films this is just masterful, it looks so good. And the sound, is fantastic. Great needle drops and this off kilter piano score that just rocks through so much of the movie. There is a car chase that's one of the best car chases ever filmed but in a way that's very different than most car chases. We all had a really good time. It's does so well at bringing a Pynchon novel to life. I have never read Vineland but have read Gravity's Rainbow and The Crying Lot of 49 but you can just feel the Pynchon of it. I am not sure I am going to say best movie of the decade or generational yet but it's absolutely an awesome satirical action comedy thriller. If you can accept a movie where people are caricatures and things really extreme and silly then I think you will enjoy the ride and really feel for the 2 main leads. Penn is a horrible villain but in the end, I think you actually do feel for him too in a weird way.
ETA: There are like 20 great quotable lines here too.
First the political part that others brought up: I can see their point. The movie's villain is a deranged military leader and his crew. It's very Dr. Strangelove in that sense. Our sympathies in the movie definitely lie with the Mexican people, Leo and his kid. Though I don't think those people actually bring some kind of real political ideology with them into the movie. They are just trying to stay safe. The world this exists in is a very cartoonist version of ours. It's clearly not set in a real world and there is some super silly stuff going on with everyone. I don't want to give away any plot but the leftist extremists are quite flawed themselves. I don't think the political violence in this is glorified. I think everyone who engages in it looks somewhere between dumb and monseterous. The way I see the negative portrayals that will have some most up in arms, it isn't about them being military leaders. It's shots at white nationalists/facsists. There are other characters who also fall in this category who aren't military/LEO which I think makes the real butt of the movie's jokes more obvious. Though there sure are a lot of jokes at the expense of leftist burnouts and such.
As for the movie. It was a truly great thriller. Funny, intense, just flew by. Leo is kind of still just playing Rick Dalton but who cares, it's the best. The way PTA films this is just masterful, it looks so good. And the sound, is fantastic. Great needle drops and this off kilter piano score that just rocks through so much of the movie. There is a car chase that's one of the best car chases ever filmed but in a way that's very different than most car chases. We all had a really good time. It's does so well at bringing a Pynchon novel to life. I have never read Vineland but have read Gravity's Rainbow and The Crying Lot of 49 but you can just feel the Pynchon of it. I am not sure I am going to say best movie of the decade or generational yet but it's absolutely an awesome satirical action comedy thriller. If you can accept a movie where people are caricatures and things really extreme and silly then I think you will enjoy the ride and really feel for the 2 main leads. Penn is a horrible villain but in the end, I think you actually do feel for him too in a weird way.
ETA: There are like 20 great quotable lines here too.
First the political part that others brought up: I can see their point. The movie's villain is a deranged military leader and his crew. It's very Dr. Strangelove in that sense. Our sympathies in the movie definitely lie with the Mexican people, Leo and his kid. Though I don't think those people actually bring some kind of real political ideology with them into the movie. They are just trying to stay safe. The world this exists in is a very cartoonist version of ours. It's clearly not set in a real world and there is some super silly stuff going on with everyone. I don't want to give away any plot but the leftist extremists are quite flawed themselves. I don't think the political violence in this is glorified. I think everyone who engages in it looks somewhere between dumb and monseterous. The way I see the negative portrayals that will have some most up in arms, it isn't about them being military leaders. It's shots at white nationalists/facsists. There are other characters who also fall in this category who aren't military/LEO which I think makes the real butt of the movie's jokes more obvious. Though there sure are a lot of jokes at the expense of leftist burnouts and such.
As for the movie. It was a truly great thriller. Funny, intense, just flew by. Leo is kind of still just playing Rick Dalton but who cares, it's the best. The way PTA films this is just masterful, it looks so good. And the sound, is fantastic. Great needle drops and this off kilter piano score that just rocks through so much of the movie. There is a car chase that's one of the best car chases ever filmed but in a way that's very different than most car chases. We all had a really good time. It's does so well at bringing a Pynchon novel to life. I have never read Vineland but have read Gravity's Rainbow and The Crying Lot of 49 but you can just feel the Pynchon of it. I am not sure I am going to say best movie of the decade or generational yet but it's absolutely an awesome satirical action comedy thriller. If you can accept a movie where people are caricatures and things really extreme and silly then I think you will enjoy the ride and really feel for the 2 main leads. Penn is a horrible villain but in the end, I think you actually do feel for him too in a weird way.
ETA: There are like 20 great quotable lines here too.
Like 50% of the things Leo did. A whole bunch of the Penn stuff and all of the Christmas stuff. I would be more specific and drop quotes but it's too new and I don't want to spoil.
First the political part that others brought up: I can see their point. The movie's villain is a deranged military leader and his crew. It's very Dr. Strangelove in that sense. Our sympathies in the movie definitely lie with the Mexican people, Leo and his kid. Though I don't think those people actually bring some kind of real political ideology with them into the movie. They are just trying to stay safe. The world this exists in is a very cartoonist version of ours. It's clearly not set in a real world and there is some super silly stuff going on with everyone. I don't want to give away any plot but the leftist extremists are quite flawed themselves. I don't think the political violence in this is glorified. I think everyone who engages in it looks somewhere between dumb and monseterous. The way I see the negative portrayals that will have some most up in arms, it isn't about them being military leaders. It's shots at white nationalists/facsists. There are other characters who also fall in this category who aren't military/LEO which I think makes the real butt of the movie's jokes more obvious. Though there sure are a lot of jokes at the expense of leftist burnouts and such.
As for the movie. It was a truly great thriller. Funny, intense, just flew by. Leo is kind of still just playing Rick Dalton but who cares, it's the best. The way PTA films this is just masterful, it looks so good. And the sound, is fantastic. Great needle drops and this off kilter piano score that just rocks through so much of the movie. There is a car chase that's one of the best car chases ever filmed but in a way that's very different than most car chases. We all had a really good time. It's does so well at bringing a Pynchon novel to life. I have never read Vineland but have read Gravity's Rainbow and The Crying Lot of 49 but you can just feel the Pynchon of it. I am not sure I am going to say best movie of the decade or generational yet but it's absolutely an awesome satirical action comedy thriller. If you can accept a movie where people are caricatures and things really extreme and silly then I think you will enjoy the ride and really feel for the 2 main leads. Penn is a horrible villain but in the end, I think you actually do feel for him too in a weird way.
ETA: There are like 20 great quotable lines here too.
Like 50% of the things Leo did. A whole bunch of the Penn stuff and all of the Christmas stuff. I would be more specific and drop quotes but it's too new and I don't want to spoil.
The first third of the movie where DeCaprio is a Terrorist?
Slight Spoiler:
I know Thomas Anderson is doing the for how the political violence was portrayed, and of course he couldn't have forseen the recent events, but I think the disconnect for lots of people is it's a challenge to have the character go from Terrorist to lovable goofy Big Lebowski Dude Dad in an instant. Yes, people are complicated and they can change. I think for some viewers, the before stuff had an effect.
The Christmas Adventurer Hail Saint Nick Club was just so dumb. I get that demographic is an easy punchline, but it was just so over the top stupid in what I thought was a serious situation that it seemed so disjointed. Merging an SNL skit with Taken was odd I thought.
But I also know I'm mostly on an island there. Most people I know can't stop fawning over it.
You thought that was the funny part? I thought the 1st third was by far the least funny. I have to assume you were responding to something else or I am misunderstanding.
Both sides in the movie commit awful political violence for reasons that are basically their own personal grand view of the world, proving how important and special they are and protecting their self interest. The French 75 doing their thing in the first 1/3 of the movie ultimately has no point, accomplishes nothing and some of them adandon their own cause/values when it becomes too inconvenient. The Christmas Adventurers Club was the funniest part of the movie I think. I mean is that really any sillier than the Ku Klux Klan and wearing white hoods and calling yourself a grand dragon? These nationalist groups are comical clowns when you actually sit and look at it. They just happen to be very dangerous clowns. And I don't think you will be on an island- especially not with the general demographic around here. There are going to be people who say the movie is dangerous and promotes leftist violence or isn't reverent enough of LEOs, etc. My guess is there are also reviews or viewers who come away unhappy with how the revolutionaries are portrayed. The 2 main faces for the revolution are a "lover of drugs and alcohol" who is as you said basically The Dude with a kid and the other is a rat who abanonded the cause and her kid with hardly a second though. All the mess of the world falls into the lap of the next generation. We hope that his daughter can maybe do something better than what her parents did. Will the children make a better place out of the mess we are giving them? Or in 25 years will the cycle just repeat again?
You thought that was the funny part? I thought the 1st third was by far the least funny. I have to assume you were responding to something else or I am misunderstanding.
Both sides in the movie commit awful political violence for reasons that are basically their own personal grand view of the world, proving how important and special they are and protecting their self interest. The French 75 doing their thing in the first 1/3 of the movie ultimately has no point, accomplishes nothing and some of them adandon their own cause/values when it becomes too inconvenient. The Christmas Adventurers Club was the funniest part of the movie I think. I mean is that really any sillier than the Ku Klux Klan and wearing white hoods and calling yourself a grand dragon? These nationalist groups are comical clowns when you actually sit and look at it. They just happen to be very dangerous clowns. And I don't think you will be on an island- especially not with the general demographic around here. There are going to be people who say the movie is dangerous and promotes leftist violence or isn't reverent enough of LEOs, etc. My guess is there are also reviews or viewers who come away unhappy with how the revolutionaries are portrayed. The 2 main faces for the revolution are a "lover of drugs and alcohol" who is as you said basically The Dude with a kid and the other is a rat who abanonded the cause and her kid with hardly a second though. All the mess of the world falls into the lap of the next generation. We hope that his daughter can maybe do something better than what her parents did. Will the children make a better place out of the mess we are giving them? Or in 25 years will the cycle just repeat again?
No I mean it was a challenge to find the post terrorist DeCaprio funny after watching the Terrorist DeCaprio.
Again, people change and they're complicated. But I think it had some effect. For DeCaprio there were a few funny things like with the daughter and her friends but mostly just kind of a burned out doofus.
You thought that was the funny part? I thought the 1st third was by far the least funny. I have to assume you were responding to something else or I am misunderstanding.
Both sides in the movie commit awful political violence for reasons that are basically their own personal grand view of the world, proving how important and special they are and protecting their self interest. The French 75 doing their thing in the first 1/3 of the movie ultimately has no point, accomplishes nothing and some of them adandon their own cause/values when it becomes too inconvenient. The Christmas Adventurers Club was the funniest part of the movie I think. I mean is that really any sillier than the Ku Klux Klan and wearing white hoods and calling yourself a grand dragon? These nationalist groups are comical clowns when you actually sit and look at it. They just happen to be very dangerous clowns. And I don't think you will be on an island- especially not with the general demographic around here. There are going to be people who say the movie is dangerous and promotes leftist violence or isn't reverent enough of LEOs, etc. My guess is there are also reviews or viewers who come away unhappy with how the revolutionaries are portrayed. The 2 main faces for the revolution are a "lover of drugs and alcohol" who is as you said basically The Dude with a kid and the other is a rat who abanonded the cause and her kid with hardly a second though. All the mess of the world falls into the lap of the next generation. We hope that his daughter can maybe do something better than what her parents did. Will the children make a better place out of the mess we are giving them? Or in 25 years will the cycle just repeat again?
No I mean it was a challenge to find the post terrorist DeCaprio funny after watching the Terrorist DeCaprio.
Again, people change and they're complicated. But I think it had some effect. For DeCaprio there were a few funny things like with the daughter and her friends but mostly just kind of a burned out doofus.
It wasn't quite my read, but one of the podcast reviews I was listening to framed Leo at the beginning as the new guy/outsider that wasn't really part of the group. They thought he was more of a goof even then and was just there for a distraction, not the main action. (which is why he was pretty useless throughout the movie too). That doesn't absolve him of his participation, but some of his actions were a little goofy I guess. Again, I didn't get that on first watch, but I could understand that POV.
After thinking more and hearing/reading other reactions, where I differed from the people praising the movie seems to be:
1. I was expecting more of a father/daughter connection. They basically had one scene, and that was in the trailer. It made the emotion of the ending not land much with me.
2. I didn't find anything with Penn funny despite the initial embarrassment he had on his walk of shame.
3. The Christmas subplot didn't land at all with me - that was the subplot I was hinting at in my initial reviews that I disliked. Basically, too much Penn for my liking in the movie.
4. The last 15-20 minutes didn't land with me at all, from the resolution of the chase to the end of Penn's arc to the letter to the final needle drop. Especially that last part, IMO it felt a bit like PTA taking sides and glorifying what was happening. To be fair, by that time I was already checking my phone for time and wasn't fully loving what I was watching.
I THINK based on source material and director what they were going for was a vibe like Inherent Vice, but more of a Road Warrior chase movie instead of detective movie. Instead of Phoenix and Brolin it's Leo and Penn? It just didn't work for me on Thursday.
You thought that was the funny part? I thought the 1st third was by far the least funny. I have to assume you were responding to something else or I am misunderstanding.
Both sides in the movie commit awful political violence for reasons that are basically their own personal grand view of the world, proving how important and special they are and protecting their self interest. The French 75 doing their thing in the first 1/3 of the movie ultimately has no point, accomplishes nothing and some of them adandon their own cause/values when it becomes too inconvenient. The Christmas Adventurers Club was the funniest part of the movie I think. I mean is that really any sillier than the Ku Klux Klan and wearing white hoods and calling yourself a grand dragon? These nationalist groups are comical clowns when you actually sit and look at it. They just happen to be very dangerous clowns. And I don't think you will be on an island- especially not with the general demographic around here. There are going to be people who say the movie is dangerous and promotes leftist violence or isn't reverent enough of LEOs, etc. My guess is there are also reviews or viewers who come away unhappy with how the revolutionaries are portrayed. The 2 main faces for the revolution are a "lover of drugs and alcohol" who is as you said basically The Dude with a kid and the other is a rat who abanonded the cause and her kid with hardly a second though. All the mess of the world falls into the lap of the next generation. We hope that his daughter can maybe do something better than what her parents did. Will the children make a better place out of the mess we are giving them? Or in 25 years will the cycle just repeat again?
I understand this take about the rat and how some of the revolutionaries are portrayed. As I posted above, IMO the final needle drop wiped much of that away for me.
You thought that was the funny part? I thought the 1st third was by far the least funny. I have to assume you were responding to something else or I am misunderstanding.
Both sides in the movie commit awful political violence for reasons that are basically their own personal grand view of the world, proving how important and special they are and protecting their self interest. The French 75 doing their thing in the first 1/3 of the movie ultimately has no point, accomplishes nothing and some of them adandon their own cause/values when it becomes too inconvenient. The Christmas Adventurers Club was the funniest part of the movie I think. I mean is that really any sillier than the Ku Klux Klan and wearing white hoods and calling yourself a grand dragon? These nationalist groups are comical clowns when you actually sit and look at it. They just happen to be very dangerous clowns. And I don't think you will be on an island- especially not with the general demographic around here. There are going to be people who say the movie is dangerous and promotes leftist violence or isn't reverent enough of LEOs, etc. My guess is there are also reviews or viewers who come away unhappy with how the revolutionaries are portrayed. The 2 main faces for the revolution are a "lover of drugs and alcohol" who is as you said basically The Dude with a kid and the other is a rat who abanonded the cause and her kid with hardly a second though. All the mess of the world falls into the lap of the next generation. We hope that his daughter can maybe do something better than what her parents did. Will the children make a better place out of the mess we are giving them? Or in 25 years will the cycle just repeat again?
No I mean it was a challenge to find the post terrorist DeCaprio funny after watching the Terrorist DeCaprio.
Again, people change and they're complicated. But I think it had some effect. For DeCaprio there were a few funny things like with the daughter and her friends but mostly just kind of a burned out doofus.
I think it helped that his terrorism was property destruction and freeing detained immigrants. They weren’t killing people while the opposition against him were clearly worse, willing to straight up murder innocent children. So in the premise of the fictional world the movie is set, Leo is definitely on the better side. If we don’t sympathize with it laugh at any character who does bad stuff, that rules out a lot of movies. Everything from Scarface to Star Wars to Fight Club to French Connection. But if you don’t connect with the lead character of a movie then it’s going to impact the enjoyment.
You thought that was the funny part? I thought the 1st third was by far the least funny. I have to assume you were responding to something else or I am misunderstanding.
Both sides in the movie commit awful political violence for reasons that are basically their own personal grand view of the world, proving how important and special they are and protecting their self interest. The French 75 doing their thing in the first 1/3 of the movie ultimately has no point, accomplishes nothing and some of them adandon their own cause/values when it becomes too inconvenient. The Christmas Adventurers Club was the funniest part of the movie I think. I mean is that really any sillier than the Ku Klux Klan and wearing white hoods and calling yourself a grand dragon? These nationalist groups are comical clowns when you actually sit and look at it. They just happen to be very dangerous clowns. And I don't think you will be on an island- especially not with the general demographic around here. There are going to be people who say the movie is dangerous and promotes leftist violence or isn't reverent enough of LEOs, etc. My guess is there are also reviews or viewers who come away unhappy with how the revolutionaries are portrayed. The 2 main faces for the revolution are a "lover of drugs and alcohol" who is as you said basically The Dude with a kid and the other is a rat who abanonded the cause and her kid with hardly a second though. All the mess of the world falls into the lap of the next generation. We hope that his daughter can maybe do something better than what her parents did. Will the children make a better place out of the mess we are giving them? Or in 25 years will the cycle just repeat again?
No I mean it was a challenge to find the post terrorist DeCaprio funny after watching the Terrorist DeCaprio.
Again, people change and they're complicated. But I think it had some effect. For DeCaprio there were a few funny things like with the daughter and her friends but mostly just kind of a burned out doofus.
It wasn't quite my read, but one of the podcast reviews I was listening to framed Leo at the beginning as the new guy/outsider that wasn't really part of the group. They thought he was more of a goof even then and was just there for a distraction, not the main action. (which is why he was pretty useless throughout the movie too). That doesn't absolve him of his participation, but some of his actions were a little goofy I guess. Again, I didn't get that on first watch, but I could understand that POV.
After thinking more and hearing/reading other reactions, where I differed from the people praising the movie seems to be:
1. I was expecting more of a father/daughter connection. They basically had one scene, and that was in the trailer. It made the emotion of the ending not land much with me.
2. I didn't find anything with Penn funny despite the initial embarrassment he had on his walk of shame.
3. The Christmas subplot didn't land at all with me - that was the subplot I was hinting at in my initial reviews that I disliked. Basically, too much Penn for my liking in the movie.
4. The last 15-20 minutes didn't land with me at all, from the resolution of the chase to the end of Penn's arc to the letter to the final needle drop. Especially that last part, IMO it felt a bit like PTA taking sides and glorifying what was happening. To be fair, by that time I was already checking my phone for time and wasn't fully loving what I was watching.
I THINK based on source material and director what they were going for was a vibe like Inherent Vice, but more of a Road Warrior chase movie instead of detective movie. Instead of Phoenix and Brolin it's Leo and Penn? It just didn't work for me on Thursday.
The obvious predictability at the end was kind of annoying too. You could have predicted the Penn at the office scene without thinking. But with less cringe.
I think for me the reaction to the movie has been fascinating. Predictable but still interesting.
I've yet to talk to any person I know pretty well that's seen the movie and not been able to predict their reaction to a T.
I didn’t get the sense the daughter was a terrorist. A protestor, yes but we didn’t see any evidence of offensive violence from then in the present day.
Yeah I am aware of what it is. I don’t think it’s necessarily always good writing. It’s a shorthand little trick. He took the kid and devoted his life to keeping her safe so it did make an attempt attach a likable action. One of the main arcs of the movie is Leo redeeming himself somewhat but it’s all subjective to the viewer. I can watch Walter White or Bob/Ghetto Pat or John Wayne in The Searchers and appreciate/enjoy the film and its story even if I find some or even most of their actions and motives objectionable. Other people haves lines in different places and that’s ok.
Yeah I am aware of what it is. I don’t think it’s necessarily always good writing. It’s a shorthand little trick. He took the kid and devoted his life to keeping her safe so it did make an attempt attach a likable action. One of the main arcs of the movie is Leo redeeming himself somewhat but it’s all subjective to the viewer. I can watch Walter White or Bob/Ghetto Pat or John Wayne in The Searchers and appreciate/enjoy the film and its story even if I find some or even most of their actions and motives objectionable. Other people haves lines in different places and that’s ok.
Of course. I was talking about Saving The Cat and how the first third of DeCaprio as Terrorist might have an impact on how funny he's seen for the rest of the movie and how connected the viewer is to him. As that question was asked. I fully understand many people didn't have that experience with the first third.
Yeah I am aware of what it is. I don’t think it’s necessarily always good writing. It’s a shorthand little trick. He took the kid and devoted his life to keeping her safe so it did make an attempt attach a likable action. One of the main arcs of the movie is Leo redeeming himself somewhat but it’s all subjective to the viewer. I can watch Walter White or Bob/Ghetto Pat or John Wayne in The Searchers and appreciate/enjoy the film and its story even if I find some or even most of their actions and motives objectionable. Other people haves lines in different places and that’s ok.
Of course. I was talking about Saving The Cat and how the first third of DeCaprio as Terrorist might have an impact on how funny he's seen for the rest of the movie and how connected the viewer is to him. As that question was asked. I fully understand many people didn't have that experience with the first third.
I think having the baby to take care of was that save the cat type moment. But of course just because that moment exists, doesn't mean it is going to work. You can show Jeffrey Dahmer save 100 cats, I am not going to come around on him. I even felt a bit for Lockjaw at the end. He certainly deserved what he got but he was very sad too. I was never rooting for him but it still was sad to see his downfall because there was something so pathetic about him.
I even felt a bit for Lockjaw at the end. He certainly deserved what he got but he was very sad too. I was never rooting for him but it still was sad to see his downfall because there was something so pathetic about him.
I didn’t get the sense the daughter was a terrorist. A protestor, yes but we didn’t see any evidence of offensive violence from then in the present day.
I agree with this. However, my retort would be that in the world of this movie we only saw violence from the events that the characters were associated with. The one protest in modern times that we saw erupted into "WW3" as the one character put it. My take was more that the combo of no characters from either side having much remorse for their past, plus the tone of the letter, plus the needle drop, plus her last line pointed to her more likely than not going down a similar road in the future.
I guess I was more in line with Joe in that I felt that the "bad guys" were more cartoonishly bad that it felt like the movie was tipping the scales in one direction. That alone isn't a deal breaker or anything, just something I was noticing for the duration of the movie. Some of his movies I like more felt like a more of a mix of a mostly bad people at the core of the movies, but presented in a human way that allowed you to connect with bits and pieces of them.
ETA: blurred the first part since it was probably too specific.
I even felt a bit for Lockjaw at the end. He certainly deserved what he got but he was very sad too. I was never rooting for him but it still was sad to see his downfall because there was something so pathetic about him.
I didn’t get the sense the daughter was a terrorist. A protestor, yes but we didn’t see any evidence of offensive violence from then in the present day.
I agree with this. However, my retort would be that in the world of this movie we only saw violence from the events that the characters were associated with. The one protest in modern times that we saw erupted into "WW3" as the one character put it. My take was more that the combo of no characters from either side having much remorse for their past, plus the tone of the letter, plus the needle drop, plus her last line pointed to her more likely than not going down a similar road in the future.
I guess I was more in line with Joe in that I felt that the "bad guys" were more cartoonishly bad that it felt like the movie was tipping the scales in one direction. That alone isn't a deal breaker or anything, just something I was noticing for the duration of the movie. Some of his movies I like more felt like a more of a mix of a mostly bad people at the core of the movies, but presented in a human way that allowed you to connect with bits and pieces of them.
ETA: blurred the first part since it was probably too specific.
Oh I definitely think they were tipping the scales and I think every adult in the movie was cartoonish. The kids were the only ones who weren't ridiculous. I think the end makes the movie seem like an origin story for the daughter and hopefully a hero who has learned from the mistakes of her mom and both her dads, seen what their actions have brought out. It is a hope that she can create a better way. I am guessing a lot of what you don't like is the Pynchon nature of it. He is big on mass conspiracies and really silly stuff. Intentionally over the top, hit you over the head strange. His characters names are always like that: Mike Fallopian, Reverend Wicks Cherrycoke, Oedipa Mass.
I didn’t get the sense the daughter was a terrorist. A protestor, yes but we didn’t see any evidence of offensive violence from then in the present day.
I agree with this. However, my retort would be that in the world of this movie we only saw violence from the events that the characters were associated with. The one protest in modern times that we saw erupted into "WW3" as the one character put it. My take was more that the combo of no characters from either side having much remorse for their past, plus the tone of the letter, plus the needle drop, plus her last line pointed to her more likely than not going down a similar road in the future.
I guess I was more in line with Joe in that I felt that the "bad guys" were more cartoonishly bad that it felt like the movie was tipping the scales in one direction. That alone isn't a deal breaker or anything, just something I was noticing for the duration of the movie. Some of his movies I like more felt like a more of a mix of a mostly bad people at the core of the movies, but presented in a human way that allowed you to connect with bits and pieces of them.
ETA: blurred the first part since it was probably too specific.
You thought that was the funny part? I thought the 1st third was by far the least funny. I have to assume you were responding to something else or I am misunderstanding.
Both sides in the movie commit awful political violence for reasons that are basically their own personal grand view of the world, proving how important and special they are and protecting their self interest. The French 75 doing their thing in the first 1/3 of the movie ultimately has no point, accomplishes nothing and some of them adandon their own cause/values when it becomes too inconvenient. The Christmas Adventurers Club was the funniest part of the movie I think. I mean is that really any sillier than the Ku Klux Klan and wearing white hoods and calling yourself a grand dragon? These nationalist groups are comical clowns when you actually sit and look at it. They just happen to be very dangerous clowns. And I don't think you will be on an island- especially not with the general demographic around here. There are going to be people who say the movie is dangerous and promotes leftist violence or isn't reverent enough of LEOs, etc. My guess is there are also reviews or viewers who come away unhappy with how the revolutionaries are portrayed. The 2 main faces for the revolution are a "lover of drugs and alcohol" who is as you said basically The Dude with a kid and the other is a rat who abanonded the cause and her kid with hardly a second though. All the mess of the world falls into the lap of the next generation. We hope that his daughter can maybe do something better than what her parents did. Will the children make a better place out of the mess we are giving them? Or in 25 years will the cycle just repeat again?
No I mean it was a challenge to find the post terrorist DeCaprio funny after watching the Terrorist DeCaprio.
Again, people change and they're complicated. But I think it had some effect. For DeCaprio there were a few funny things like with the daughter and her friends but mostly just kind of a burned out doofus.
I think it helped that his terrorism was property destruction and freeing detained immigrants. They weren’t killing people while the opposition against him were clearly worse, willing to straight up murder innocent children. So in the premise of the fictional world the movie is set, Leo is definitely on the better side. If we don’t sympathize with it laugh at any character who does bad stuff, that rules out a lot of movies. Everything from Scarface to Star Wars to Fight Club to French Connection. But if you don’t connect with the lead character of a movie then it’s going to impact the enjoyment.
This is why my wife and I stopped watching Yellowstone after season 2. We were rooting for the lawyer son, who was obviously supposed to be the one you were against.
Didn't like Costner's character, and the daughter was dingbat crazy without much in redeeming qualities.
I just figured this was the place to drop this. This came as no surprise since they made a pretty big deal about themselves in the commentary to Magnolia and in the liner notes of "When The Pawn . . ."
I had alluded to some gossip earlier in the thread, and I'll just say that if I had a friend who became a business journalist and PR guy for various companies, but before that had written longform articles for some pretty good magazines in which he profiled some very interesting and well-known folks; and this friend of mine happened to have a different journalist friend who was on the entertainment beat—and this beat required him to do a longish profile about this hot director in California—and my hypothetical friend's friend had gone to profile him only to find that the director was completely strung out on a cocaine bender, and the director began talking about how his next film was some sort of political allegory involving extra terrestrials and my friend's friend had said this when my friend inquired about the director: "Dude, it's not *shakes head* it's not good," referring to the director's overall life. So in keeping with directors, friends, and weird similarities amongst them, one is not surprised when one sees a headline like this:
I just figured this was the place to drop this. This came as no surprise since they made a pretty big deal about themselves in the commentary to Magnolia and in the liner notes of "When The Pawn . . ."
I had alluded to some gossip earlier in the thread, and I'll just say that if I had a friend who became a business journalist and PR guy for various companies, but before that had written longform articles for some pretty good magazines in which he profiled some very interesting and well-known folks; and this friend of mine happened to have a different journalist friend who was on the entertainment beat—and this beat required him to do a longish profile about this hot director in California—and my hypothetical friend's friend had gone to profile him only to find that the director was completely strung out on a cocaine bender, and the director began talking about how his next film was some sort of political allegory involving extra terrestrials and my friend's friend had said this when my friend inquired about the director: "Dude, it's not *shakes head* it's not good," referring to the director's overall life. So in keeping with directors, friends, and weird similarities amongst them, one is not surprised when one sees a headline like this:
I’ve heard that story- mostly just as a funny anecdote about how some guys are just so annoying. QT is interesting but I imagine after like 20 mins I would sick of his presence. I assume PTA and QT have cleaned up their lives quite a bit. They have families and all that now. The joke about PTA movies is his early career they were all coke movies and his late career they became weed movies. You can tell One Battle is leftover from the coke era that’s for sure. He’s been working on it for 20 years.
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