Ongoing Chris Johnson Discussions (1 Viewer)

[Andrew Garda]

I don't think my draft could've worked out any better. I told my friend I was hoping that by august 28th (our supposed draft until the hurricane forced us to move it up a day) that I hoped CJ was unsigned and fell to me. Pick 1.6 was set on MJD, and 1.7 owned CJ in another league and didn't want to double down on the risk. I gladly scooped him up at 1.8 since I do like to take risks. DMC falls to me at 2.3 and now, on paper, it looks like a fun year . One train of thought I did have one immediately trade Chris Johnson because of potential injury and limited work load concerns. However, I've been so into this holdout drama that I feel kind of attached to CJ, so here's to hoping for a big year!

Not all of us are spoil sports who look down on stories like yours.

Lol thanks, at least someone appreciates. Today is a good day of celebration for CJ owners.

I hope it works out for ya - and we should let Arian Foster know that YOU at least care for your fantasy players as people too!

 

[Badgers Fan]

I don't think my draft could've worked out any better. I told my friend I was hoping that by august 28th (our supposed draft until the hurricane forced us to move it up a day) that I hoped CJ was unsigned and fell to me. Pick 1.6 was set on MJD, and 1.7 owned CJ in another league and didn't want to double down on the risk. I gladly scooped him up at 1.8 since I do like to take risks. DMC falls to me at 2.3 and now, on paper, it looks like a fun year . One train of thought I did have one immediately trade Chris Johnson because of potential injury and limited work load concerns. However, I've been so into this holdout drama that I feel kind of attached to CJ, so here's to hoping for a big year!

Not all of us are spoil sports who look down on stories like yours.

Lol thanks, at least someone appreciates. Today is a good day of celebration for CJ owners.

PS nobody cares

Whether anyone legitimately cares or not is not going to affect my fantasy season. I will continue to rejoice, you can continue to be a fake titan fan

 

[Hoss Style]

I don't think my draft could've worked out any better. I told my friend I was hoping that by august 28th (our supposed draft until the hurricane forced us to move it up a day) that I hoped CJ was unsigned and fell to me. Pick 1.6 was set on MJD, and 1.7 owned CJ in another league and didn't want to double down on the risk. I gladly scooped him up at 1.8 since I do like to take risks. DMC falls to me at 2.3 and now, on paper, it looks like a fun year .

One train of thought I did have one immediately trade Chris Johnson because of potential injury and limited work load concerns. However, I've been so into this holdout drama that I feel kind of attached to CJ, so here's to hoping for a big year!

Not all of us are spoil sports who look down on stories like yours.

Lol thanks, at least someone appreciates. Today is a good day of celebration for CJ owners.

PS nobody cares

Whether anyone legitimately cares or not is not going to affect my fantasy season. I will continue to rejoice, you can continue to be a fake titan fan

I love the guy who posts "Nobody cares" - like anybody cares that he doesn't care. Brilliant.If you're going to be a D-bag at least don't look foolish doing it. Irony is not your friend.

That being said, I'll leave this alone.

 

[Banger]

All those people passing him up at picks 7-8-9-10 will kick themselves now

I dont see why. That is about what he is worth.

you are clearly in the minority with that opinion and incorrect in mine.

Well, its a good thing that being right and being in the minority don't go hand in hand then.Last year in standard ppr leagues, CJ finished as the 7th RB, behindFosterHillisCharlesPetersonShadyMcFaddenAnd he was within a dozen points of Rice and Mendy, both of which A LOT of people expect to have better years this year than last year. So, behind 6 and slighlty ahead of 2. What's so odd to think that he might just actually finish in the 5-8 range? Seems fairly likely and if that the case, I would much rather draft him later than overpay for him.

Your quote says that's what he is worth but you're arguing that was he WAS worth last year. So by this logic since Hillis finished 2nd last year is he worth the #2 this year? Everyone would like to draft him later but in 99 out 100 leagues you won't get that luxury (unless there are wacky scoring systems). CJ will be in the top 4 RBs from here on out and likely in the top 2-3. Who are the 7, 8 or 9 players that you are taking above him? Chances are you will be overpaying on them so you don't overpay for CJ.

 

[Furian]

2 QB starting league!

Jamaal Charles 8th pick

Chris Johnson 13th pick

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

 

[schooner44]

Everyone who passed on him you can thank the "experts" that told you to move him down your draft board. I'd also like the thanks the "experts" for allowing me to get him at the 8 spot.

What have drafters who passed on CJ lost at this point? What have drafters who took CJ won at this point?Yippee! I won my draft!

The guys who past lost value, because they probably took a lesser talent. The guys who took him received value. I'm not saying people that took him at the middle to end of first won there draft but i'm sure there feeling great about there pick.

"Value" was never brought up in your post I responded to. It was slamming the experts that moved him down. Who hadn't dropped him down until now?

I didn't. I took him at 1.04 2 weeks ago without a doubt in my mind that he was worth it. Even if he misses 2-3 weeks due to a holdout, he's still worth that high of a pick.

 

[timschochet]

Hey Hoart, just wanted to remind you that I drafted Chris Johnson at #10, and then took Andre Johnson at 2.01.

 

[pollardsvision]

According to Adam Schefter tweet, the 4 years, $53.5m are tacked on to the end of the existing 2 year contract, instead of replacing them. So really it's a 6 year contract in effect.That does change things quite a bit. I was surprised they would pay him $13m a year. According to reports his existing 2 years would max out at $2.7m. So effectively this would be a 6 year, $56.2m deal, or $9.4m per season.

Still seems like they completely caved to me.Sure, it's less than $10 million/year because they just gave a RB a 6 year contract. Being able to easily cut him in the last 2 years is nice, but they'll be taking a $13 mill/year cap hit for the next 4 years for that luxury. You can look at it as either paying a running back $13/mill for the next 4 years or 9.4 for the next 6. Again, for a running back. Either way, the Titans got bent over on this one.Just curious, if the Titans privately sent the other 31 GMs an email saying CJ and his contract are available for trade, who's offering and what?I doubt they get more than a 2nd round pick. I'm not sure from who though. Can't be more than a couple of teams that would trade for the contract.

I think you seriously underestimate the value of a 25 year old member of the 2000 yard rushing club. He's the best player on their team.

Both of those things very well could be true. I don't place much value on a 25 year old member of the 2000 yard rushing club.Outside of TD(who's career was over by age 27) the rest of the members of the 2000 yard club won a combined total of 1 playoff game after they turned 25. He is the best player on the team. I'm just don't think it's generally good for a team if their best player is a running back. Paying a running back like the best player on your team seems like a good way to ensure that the best player on your team remains a running back.Of all the starting offensive and defensive positions on a football team, the running back is the last one that I'd want to be my best player.I could be totally wrong. I am clearly biased against paying running backs alot of money.

 

[ziggie]

According to Adam Schefter tweet, the 4 years, $53.5m are tacked on to the end of the existing 2 year contract, instead of replacing them. So really it's a 6 year contract in effect.

That does change things quite a bit. I was surprised they would pay him $13m a year. According to reports his existing 2 years would max out at $2.7m. So effectively this would be a 6 year, $56.2m deal, or $9.4m per season.

Still seems like they completely caved to me.Sure, it's less than $10 million/year because they just gave a RB a 6 year contract.

Being able to easily cut him in the last 2 years is nice, but they'll be taking a $13 mill/year cap hit for the next 4 years for that luxury.

You can look at it as either paying a running back $13/mill for the next 4 years or 9.4 for the next 6. Again, for a running back. Either way, the Titans got bent over on this one.

Just curious, if the Titans privately sent the other 31 GMs an email saying CJ and his contract are available for trade, who's offering and what?

I doubt they get more than a 2nd round pick. I'm not sure from who though. Can't be more than a couple of teams that would trade for the contract.

I think you seriously underestimate the value of a 25 year old member of the 2000 yard rushing club. He's the best player on their team.

Both of those things very well could be true. I don't place much value on a 25 year old member of the 2000 yard rushing club.Outside of TD(who's career was over by age 27) the rest of the members of the 2000 yard club won a combined total of 1 playoff game after they turned 25.

He is the best player on the team. I'm just don't think it's generally good for a team if their best player is a running back. Paying a running back like the best player on your team seems like a good way to ensure that the best player on your team remains a running back.

Of all the starting offensive and defensive positions on a football team, the running back is the last one that I'd want to be my best player.

I could be totally wrong. I am clearly biased against paying running backs alot of money.

You must have passed on chris johnson at pick 12 because your clearly a hater.My reaction to chris johnson signing is

Took him at pick # 9 on sunday. suck it.

 

[TD Ryan]

Both of those things very well could be true. I don't place much value on a 25 year old member of the 2000 yard rushing club.Outside of TD(who's career was over by age 27) the rest of the members of the 2000 yard club won a combined total of 1 playoff game after they turned 25. He is the best player on the team. I'm just don't think it's generally good for a team if their best player is a running back. Paying a running back like the best player on your team seems like a good way to ensure that the best player on your team remains a running back.Of all the starting offensive and defensive positions on a football team, the running back is the last one that I'd want to be my best player.I could be totally wrong. I am clearly biased against paying running backs alot of money.

I own CJ3, got him 13th overall and I'm glad he signed - I hope he's a 2000yd MVP.and I completely agree with the above quote.QBs, Coaches, and Defenses are what's most important in the NFL - not RBs... at least not in this era - just look at the teams that have won the SB - RB is an afterthought.Did TEN "overpay" for him - I don't know, I'm no capologist and don't even really know the nuances of teh new CBA. What I do think it shows is that TEN is a long way from being an elite NFL team - new coach, new QB, RB is the highest paid player, just not a good formula.

 

[GregR]

According to Adam Schefter tweet, the 4 years, $53.5m are tacked on to the end of the existing 2 year contract, instead of replacing them. So really it's a 6 year contract in effect.That does change things quite a bit. I was surprised they would pay him $13m a year. According to reports his existing 2 years would max out at $2.7m. So effectively this would be a 6 year, $56.2m deal, or $9.4m per season.

Still seems like they completely caved to me.Sure, it's less than $10 million/year because they just gave a RB a 6 year contract. Being able to easily cut him in the last 2 years is nice, but they'll be taking a $13 mill/year cap hit for the next 4 years for that luxury. You can look at it as either paying a running back $13/mill for the next 4 years or 9.4 for the next 6. Again, for a running back. Either way, the Titans got bent over on this one.Just curious, if the Titans privately sent the other 31 GMs an email saying CJ and his contract are available for trade, who's offering and what?I doubt they get more than a 2nd round pick. I'm not sure from who though. Can't be more than a couple of teams that would trade for the contract.

Your numbers are not correct. They are not paying him $13m for the next 4 years, nor do they have a $13m cap hit for the next 4 years.They are paying him $13m in 2011. They are paying him an average of $10.3m in 2012 through 2014. They are paying him in average of $6m in 2015 and 2016.If they cut him the last 2 years of his contract, they will have paid him an average of $11m per year over the first 4 years of the contract. Not $13m.

 

[Shutout]

All those people passing him up at picks 7-8-9-10 will kick themselves now

I dont see why. That is about what he is worth.

you are clearly in the minority with that opinion and incorrect in mine.

Well, its a good thing that being right and being in the minority don't go hand in hand then.Last year in standard ppr leagues, CJ finished as the 7th RB, behind

Foster

Hillis

Charles

Peterson

Shady

McFadden

And he was within a dozen points of Rice and Mendy, both of which A LOT of people expect to have better years this year than last year.

So, behind 6 and slighlty ahead of 2. What's so odd to think that he might just actually finish in the 5-8 range? Seems fairly likely and if that the case, I would much rather draft him later than overpay for him.

Your quote says that's what he is worth but you're arguing that was he WAS worth last year. So by this logic since Hillis finished 2nd last year is he worth the #2 this year? Everyone would like to draft him later but in 99 out 100 leagues you won't get that luxury (unless there are wacky scoring systems). CJ will be in the top 4 RBs from here on out and likely in the top 2-3. Who are the 7, 8 or 9 players that you are taking above him? Chances are you will be overpaying on them so you don't overpay for CJ.

Funny how you use Hillis in the example, as most people expect him to fall this year but see how different it all sounds if you say "Since Peterson finished 8the last year, is he worth 8th this year?" Kinda different, huh? Point being is that, obviously, you have to put a bit of thought into it. In Johnson's case, we have seen him finish 7th and lower and we have seen one season where he was the tops. Only problem with that top season is that it took 2000 yards to do it and, as we all know, the chances of duplicating that feat is about as slim as it gets.

I said he is worth the 7-9, 10 range so any of the 8 I mentioned would all be guys I would take (and that's just the RBs).

The entire premise of value based drafting is just that: value. So, for you to say you are going to overpay for him or not get him defeats the whole purpose of doing it, by definition. Which is my point: The guy that takes him 7-10 is getting exactly what they pay for. The guy that picks him 2 or 3 is overpaying. The first guy gets good value. The second guy gets lessr value. And, of course, if someone gets him later, the value increases with each pick that goes by.

I get it if people want to argue until the cows come home about why they want to take him with a top pick. I'm just pointing out that you aren't getting your moneys worth. Its your pick: spend it how you want. I just find it odd that these forums are infested with picks that go something like "I just got Manningham in the 8th round! Shark!" That IS great. So why get all excited about getting great value on a player late in the draft but not practice the same philosophy at the beginning of the draft?

 

[cvnpoka]

The guy that takes him 7-10 is getting exactly what they pay for. The guy that picks him 2 or 3 is overpaying. The first guy gets good value. The second guy gets lessr value. And, of course, if someone gets him later, the value increases with each pick that goes by.

this is inherently true for every top 2 or 3 pick. hell, the first pick is the worst valuewise. the first pick will never outperform their slot. should always try to trade down.

 

[Banger]

All those people passing him up at picks 7-8-9-10 will kick themselves now

I dont see why. That is about what he is worth.

you are clearly in the minority with that opinion and incorrect in mine.

Well, its a good thing that being right and being in the minority don't go hand in hand then.Last year in standard ppr leagues, CJ finished as the 7th RB, behind

Foster

Hillis

Charles

Peterson

Shady

McFadden

And he was within a dozen points of Rice and Mendy, both of which A LOT of people expect to have better years this year than last year.

So, behind 6 and slighlty ahead of 2. What's so odd to think that he might just actually finish in the 5-8 range? Seems fairly likely and if that the case, I would much rather draft him later than overpay for him.

Your quote says that's what he is worth but you're arguing that was he WAS worth last year. So by this logic since Hillis finished 2nd last year is he worth the #2 this year? Everyone would like to draft him later but in 99 out 100 leagues you won't get that luxury (unless there are wacky scoring systems). CJ will be in the top 4 RBs from here on out and likely in the top 2-3. Who are the 7, 8 or 9 players that you are taking above him? Chances are you will be overpaying on them so you don't overpay for CJ.

Funny how you use Hillis in the example, as most people expect him to fall this year but see how different it all sounds if you say "Since Peterson finished 8the last year, is he worth 8th this year?" Kinda different, huh? Point being is that, obviously, you have to put a bit of thought into it. In Johnson's case, we have seen him finish 7th and lower and we have seen one season where he was the tops. Only problem with that top season is that it took 2000 yards to do it and, as we all know, the chances of duplicating that feat is about as slim as it gets.

I said he is worth the 7-9, 10 range so any of the 8 I mentioned would all be guys I would take (and that's just the RBs).

The entire premise of value based drafting is just that: value. So, for you to say you are going to overpay for him or not get him defeats the whole purpose of doing it, by definition. Which is my point: The guy that takes him 7-10 is getting exactly what they pay for. The guy that picks him 2 or 3 is overpaying. The first guy gets good value. The second guy gets lessr value. And, of course, if someone gets him later, the value increases with each pick that goes by.

I get it if people want to argue until the cows come home about why they want to take him with a top pick. I'm just pointing out that you aren't getting your moneys worth. Its your pick: spend it how you want. I just find it odd that these forums are infested with picks that go something like "I just got Manningham in the 8th round! Shark!" That IS great. So why get all excited about getting great value on a player late in the draft but not practice the same philosophy at the beginning of the draft?

You do realize that they are playing a new season this year and not just replaying last year right? This is an interesting draft philosophy...looks like I know who my #1 wr is....Brandon Lloyd come on down!!! Witten #1 TE...you've just really simplified this all for me. BTW CJ finished 5th last year so you need to move him up in your rankings.

 

[Lash]

According to Adam Schefter tweet, the 4 years, $53.5m are tacked on to the end of the existing 2 year contract, instead of replacing them. So really it's a 6 year contract in effect.

That does change things quite a bit. I was surprised they would pay him $13m a year. According to reports his existing 2 years would max out at $2.7m. So effectively this would be a 6 year, $56.2m deal, or $9.4m per season.

Still seems like they completely caved to me.Sure, it's less than $10 million/year because they just gave a RB a 6 year contract.

Being able to easily cut him in the last 2 years is nice, but they'll be taking a $13 mill/year cap hit for the next 4 years for that luxury.

You can look at it as either paying a running back $13/mill for the next 4 years or 9.4 for the next 6. Again, for a running back. Either way, the Titans got bent over on this one.

Just curious, if the Titans privately sent the other 31 GMs an email saying CJ and his contract are available for trade, who's offering and what?

I doubt they get more than a 2nd round pick. I'm not sure from who though. Can't be more than a couple of teams that would trade for the contract.

I think you seriously underestimate the value of a 25 year old member of the 2000 yard rushing club. He's the best player on their team.

Both of those things very well could be true. I don't place much value on a 25 year old member of the 2000 yard rushing club.Outside of TD(who's career was over by age 27) the rest of the members of the 2000 yard club won a combined total of 1 playoff game after they turned 25.

He is the best player on the team. I'm just don't think it's generally good for a team if their best player is a running back. Paying a running back like the best player on your team seems like a good way to ensure that the best player on your team remains a running back.

Of all the starting offensive and defensive positions on a football team, the running back is the last one that I'd want to be my best player.

I could be totally wrong. I am clearly biased against paying running backs alot of money.

why take TD out of the statistic reporting?

i love those arguments ... i.e. " if you take away that 223 yd 3TD performance in week 3 and the 160yd 2TD in week 7, he only had 1040yds and 6TDs, too inconsistent for me"

people forget these teams have a FLOOR now, they HAVE to pay somebody, might as well be one of the top5 players in the NFL as well as one of the top5 most exciting players in the NFL

or should they just add 1M to all their backup OL and DL? SOMEONE has to get money ... teams have to reach the salary floor

 

[Lash]

CJ2K posted on twitter he wanted the fake Titans fans to call him CJ53M

 

[pollardsvision]

According to Adam Schefter tweet, the 4 years, $53.5m are tacked on to the end of the existing 2 year contract, instead of replacing them. So really it's a 6 year contract in effect.

That does change things quite a bit. I was surprised they would pay him $13m a year. According to reports his existing 2 years would max out at $2.7m. So effectively this would be a 6 year, $56.2m deal, or $9.4m per season.

Still seems like they completely caved to me.Sure, it's less than $10 million/year because they just gave a RB a 6 year contract.

Being able to easily cut him in the last 2 years is nice, but they'll be taking a $13 mill/year cap hit for the next 4 years for that luxury.

You can look at it as either paying a running back $13/mill for the next 4 years or 9.4 for the next 6. Again, for a running back. Either way, the Titans got bent over on this one.

Just curious, if the Titans privately sent the other 31 GMs an email saying CJ and his contract are available for trade, who's offering and what?

I doubt they get more than a 2nd round pick. I'm not sure from who though. Can't be more than a couple of teams that would trade for the contract.

I think you seriously underestimate the value of a 25 year old member of the 2000 yard rushing club. He's the best player on their team.

Both of those things very well could be true. I don't place much value on a 25 year old member of the 2000 yard rushing club.Outside of TD(who's career was over by age 27) the rest of the members of the 2000 yard club won a combined total of 1 playoff game after they turned 25.

He is the best player on the team. I'm just don't think it's generally good for a team if their best player is a running back. Paying a running back like the best player on your team seems like a good way to ensure that the best player on your team remains a running back.

Of all the starting offensive and defensive positions on a football team, the running back is the last one that I'd want to be my best player.

I could be totally wrong. I am clearly biased against paying running backs alot of money.

why take TD out of the statistic reporting?

i love those arguments ... i.e. " if you take away that 223 yd 3TD performance in week 3 and the 160yd 2TD in week 7, he only had 1040yds and 6TDs, too inconsistent for me"

people forget these teams have a FLOOR now, they HAVE to pay somebody, might as well be one of the top5 players in the NFL as well as one of the top5 most exciting players in the NFL

or should they just add 1M to all their backup OL and DL? SOMEONE has to get money ... teams have to reach the salary floor

I wasn't trying to take him out. That's why I mentioned him. He's the only decent example when talking about 2000 yard rushers helping playoff caliber teams. His career was pretty much over by age 27.Paying a RB this kind of money just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

Sure, they have to give the money to somebody. As I said before, when picking someone on a team to make the highest paid player on the team, RB would be my last choice. Something tells me that the better organizations in football will figure out a way to reach the floor without shelling out 8-figure/year contracts for their RBs.

 

[RhymesMcJuice]

According to Adam Schefter tweet, the 4 years, $53.5m are tacked on to the end of the existing 2 year contract, instead of replacing them. So really it's a 6 year contract in effect.That does change things quite a bit. I was surprised they would pay him $13m a year. According to reports his existing 2 years would max out at $2.7m. So effectively this would be a 6 year, $56.2m deal, or $9.4m per season.

Still seems like they completely caved to me.Sure, it's less than $10 million/year because they just gave a RB a 6 year contract. Being able to easily cut him in the last 2 years is nice, but they'll be taking a $13 mill/year cap hit for the next 4 years for that luxury. You can look at it as either paying a running back $13/mill for the next 4 years or 9.4 for the next 6. Again, for a running back. Either way, the Titans got bent over on this one.Just curious, if the Titans privately sent the other 31 GMs an email saying CJ and his contract are available for trade, who's offering and what?I doubt they get more than a 2nd round pick. I'm not sure from who though. Can't be more than a couple of teams that would trade for the contract.

Your numbers are not correct. They are not paying him $13m for the next 4 years, nor do they have a $13m cap hit for the next 4 years.They are paying him $13m in 2011. They are paying him an average of $10.3m in 2012 through 2014. They are paying him in average of $6m in 2015 and 2016.If they cut him the last 2 years of his contract, they will have paid him an average of $11m per year over the first 4 years of the contract. Not $13m.

That's still a lot of money to give a RB when you have a below average team. If they are lucky and he stays healthy, $11M/year isn't a bad price but if he suffers a major injury it's a Ryan Leaf caliber set back.

 

[Shutout]

All those people passing him up at picks 7-8-9-10 will kick themselves now

I dont see why. That is about what he is worth.

you are clearly in the minority with that opinion and incorrect in mine.

Well, its a good thing that being right and being in the minority don't go hand in hand then.Last year in standard ppr leagues, CJ finished as the 7th RB, behind

Foster

Hillis

Charles

Peterson

Shady

McFadden

And he was within a dozen points of Rice and Mendy, both of which A LOT of people expect to have better years this year than last year.

So, behind 6 and slighlty ahead of 2. What's so odd to think that he might just actually finish in the 5-8 range? Seems fairly likely and if that the case, I would much rather draft him later than overpay for him.

Your quote says that's what he is worth but you're arguing that was he WAS worth last year. So by this logic since Hillis finished 2nd last year is he worth the #2 this year? Everyone would like to draft him later but in 99 out 100 leagues you won't get that luxury (unless there are wacky scoring systems). CJ will be in the top 4 RBs from here on out and likely in the top 2-3. Who are the 7, 8 or 9 players that you are taking above him? Chances are you will be overpaying on them so you don't overpay for CJ.

Funny how you use Hillis in the example, as most people expect him to fall this year but see how different it all sounds if you say "Since Peterson finished 8the last year, is he worth 8th this year?" Kinda different, huh? Point being is that, obviously, you have to put a bit of thought into it. In Johnson's case, we have seen him finish 7th and lower and we have seen one season where he was the tops. Only problem with that top season is that it took 2000 yards to do it and, as we all know, the chances of duplicating that feat is about as slim as it gets.

I said he is worth the 7-9, 10 range so any of the 8 I mentioned would all be guys I would take (and that's just the RBs).

The entire premise of value based drafting is just that: value. So, for you to say you are going to overpay for him or not get him defeats the whole purpose of doing it, by definition. Which is my point: The guy that takes him 7-10 is getting exactly what they pay for. The guy that picks him 2 or 3 is overpaying. The first guy gets good value. The second guy gets lessr value. And, of course, if someone gets him later, the value increases with each pick that goes by.

I get it if people want to argue until the cows come home about why they want to take him with a top pick. I'm just pointing out that you aren't getting your moneys worth. Its your pick: spend it how you want. I just find it odd that these forums are infested with picks that go something like "I just got Manningham in the 8th round! Shark!" That IS great. So why get all excited about getting great value on a player late in the draft but not practice the same philosophy at the beginning of the draft?

You do realize that they are playing a new season this year and not just replaying last year right? This is an interesting draft philosophy...looks like I know who my #1 wr is....Brandon Lloyd come on down!!! Witten #1 TE...you've just really simplified this all for me. BTW CJ finished 5th last year so you need to move him up in your rankings.

As said before...you have to put some thought into it and adjust accordingly so its pretty obvious to everyone except you that this isn't simply copy and paste from last year. But its funny that the thing you seem to want to repeatedly keep bringing up in an over-simplified manner and critisizing for is exactly the same thing that you, yourself are really doing.

You are basing your justification of a top pick on Johnson based on something he did in the past...one time...and something that no RB in NFL history has ever duplicated once they did it the first time. You preach on value based drafting yet you have not (can not) defend this position because the reality is that history shows you have overpayed for him everytime except one if you used that high a pick on him while the guys that you say are silly to take him 7-10 are foolish (yet they are the ones that are getting exactly what they pay for).

Again, draft as you see fit but you're talking out of multiple sides of your mouth.

And Cj was 7 in a number of my ppr leagues. perhaps you play in some simpler scoring formats.

 

[Reepicheep]

He is the best player on the team. I'm just don't think it's generally good for a team if their best player is a running back. Paying a running back like the best player on your team seems like a good way to ensure that the best player on your team remains a running back.

Of all the starting offensive and defensive positions on a football team, the running back is the last one that I'd want to be my best player.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[GregR]

He is the best player on the team. I'm just don't think it's generally good for a team if their best player is a running back. Paying a running back like the best player on your team seems like a good way to ensure that the best player on your team remains a running back.

Of all the starting offensive and defensive positions on a football team, the running back is the last one that I'd want to be my best player.

Couldn't agree more.

I agree with the bolded too. But not the rest of it. Not drafting good offensive talent when you are a team who doesn't dabble in free agency is a how you ensure the best player on your team remains a RB.Tennessee is a team whose stated philosophy is to build through the draft. Here is a snippet of an interview a couple years back with their GM:

Q: Will you be active in the free agent market going forward?

REINFELDT: We will probably not be big players in free agency. There is a reason we chose to be that way. I think the way to build a team in the NFL is through the draft. Get the young players at a premium — the really good players — and get your core players. We want to get 10 or 12 special guys and hold on to those guys. Whether franchising them or doing long term deals early, you need to have a group of 10 or 12 players that are your special guys.

Here is the Titans website write up on how awesome their GM is at free agency:

In his first four years with the Titans he has shown the ability to build a team through the draft, free agency and young talent retention. In free agency, key players he added to the roster include defensive end Jason Babin, wide receivers Justin Gage and Nate Washington, guard Jake Scott, linebacker Will Witherspoon, tight end Alge Crumpler, cornerback Nick Harper and defensive tackle Jovan Haye.

Look at that list of players. Translation, "We don't build through free agency and wow did we get lucky on career under-achiever Jason Babin". Going out and getting Hasselbeck was the closest thing they've made to a free agent splash, and that was completely driven by major need and is still just a short term plug in until they hope their rookie is ready to go.If you're not going to spend the money on bringing in top level talent through free agency, then you need to hang on to what you are able to find in the draft. And since those players they get in the draft will have 4-5 year rookie contracts to play out, by the time they need to re-sign any of those players, CJ's salaries will have dropped to bargain prices if he is still producing at a same level.

I just don't see a major issue given where their team is today. The money to CJ won't be the cause of the Titan's failure if they fail. They likely wouldn't have spent it on a free agent anyway.

 

[Oh Yes!]

CJ3? Thought it was CJ2k? These nicknames have got to stop

 

[Banger]

All those people passing him up at picks 7-8-9-10 will kick themselves now

I dont see why. That is about what he is worth.

you are clearly in the minority with that opinion and incorrect in mine.

Well, its a good thing that being right and being in the minority don't go hand in hand then.Last year in standard ppr leagues, CJ finished as the 7th RB, behind

Foster

Hillis

Charles

Peterson

Shady

McFadden

And he was within a dozen points of Rice and Mendy, both of which A LOT of people expect to have better years this year than last year.

So, behind 6 and slighlty ahead of 2. What's so odd to think that he might just actually finish in the 5-8 range? Seems fairly likely and if that the case, I would much rather draft him later than overpay for him.

Your quote says that's what he is worth but you're arguing that was he WAS worth last year. So by this logic since Hillis finished 2nd last year is he worth the #2 this year? Everyone would like to draft him later but in 99 out 100 leagues you won't get that luxury (unless there are wacky scoring systems). CJ will be in the top 4 RBs from here on out and likely in the top 2-3. Who are the 7, 8 or 9 players that you are taking above him? Chances are you will be overpaying on them so you don't overpay for CJ.

Funny how you use Hillis in the example, as most people expect him to fall this year but see how different it all sounds if you say "Since Peterson finished 8the last year, is he worth 8th this year?" Kinda different, huh? Point being is that, obviously, you have to put a bit of thought into it. In Johnson's case, we have seen him finish 7th and lower and we have seen one season where he was the tops. Only problem with that top season is that it took 2000 yards to do it and, as we all know, the chances of duplicating that feat is about as slim as it gets.

I said he is worth the 7-9, 10 range so any of the 8 I mentioned would all be guys I would take (and that's just the RBs).

The entire premise of value based drafting is just that: value. So, for you to say you are going to overpay for him or not get him defeats the whole purpose of doing it, by definition. Which is my point: The guy that takes him 7-10 is getting exactly what they pay for. The guy that picks him 2 or 3 is overpaying. The first guy gets good value. The second guy gets lessr value. And, of course, if someone gets him later, the value increases with each pick that goes by.

I get it if people want to argue until the cows come home about why they want to take him with a top pick. I'm just pointing out that you aren't getting your moneys worth. Its your pick: spend it how you want. I just find it odd that these forums are infested with picks that go something like "I just got Manningham in the 8th round! Shark!" That IS great. So why get all excited about getting great value on a player late in the draft but not practice the same philosophy at the beginning of the draft?

You do realize that they are playing a new season this year and not just replaying last year right? This is an interesting draft philosophy...looks like I know who my #1 wr is....Brandon Lloyd come on down!!! Witten #1 TE...you've just really simplified this all for me. BTW CJ finished 5th last year so you need to move him up in your rankings.

As said before...you have to put some thought into it and adjust accordingly so its pretty obvious to everyone except you that this isn't simply copy and paste from last year. But its funny that the thing you seem to want to repeatedly keep bringing up in an over-simplified manner and critisizing for is exactly the same thing that you, yourself are really doing.

You are basing your justification of a top pick on Johnson based on something he did in the past...one time...and something that no RB in NFL history has ever duplicated once they did it the first time. You preach on value based drafting yet you have not (can not) defend this position because the reality is that history shows you have overpayed for him everytime except one if you used that high a pick on him while the guys that you say are silly to take him 7-10 are foolish (yet they are the ones that are getting exactly what they pay for).

Again, draft as you see fit but you're talking out of multiple sides of your mouth.

And Cj was 7 in a number of my ppr leagues. perhaps you play in some simpler scoring formats.

you're absolutely 100% wrong..I'm not basing a high pick of Johnson solely on what he's done in the past, I'm basing it on what he's likely to do in the future, this year 2011. He's got talent (possibly the most, at least the top 2-3 in the game), opportunity that's better than most (will get a lot of touches and the offense is built around him), injury history and situation. I don't think it's silly that someone take him at 7-10, take him in a heartbeat if 4-7 owners are dumb enough to let him drop that far. My issue is that there's no way he falls to that territory now but your comment was that that is where he s/b ranked which is what I had an issue with.

It's not as if I'm out here on a limb in saying that I think CJ is a top 3 pick, in fact it's you that are clearly against the norm where you have him ranked. Go ahead and start a poll where the question is Now that CJ is signed where would you rank/draft him going into the 2011 season? A) as a RB1 - RB5 or B) RB6 - RB10 C) RB11+. It will be a laughing stock.

 

[pollardsvision]

He is the best player on the team. I'm just don't think it's generally good for a team if their best player is a running back. Paying a running back like the best player on your team seems like a good way to ensure that the best player on your team remains a running back.

Of all the starting offensive and defensive positions on a football team, the running back is the last one that I'd want to be my best player.

Couldn't agree more.

I agree with the bolded too. But not the rest of it. Not drafting good offensive talent when you are a team who doesn't dabble in free agency is a how you ensure the best player on your team remains a RB.Tennessee is a team whose stated philosophy is to build through the draft. Here is a snippet of an interview a couple years back with their GM:

Q: Will you be active in the free agent market going forward?

REINFELDT: We will probably not be big players in free agency. There is a reason we chose to be that way. I think the way to build a team in the NFL is through the draft. Get the young players at a premium — the really good players — and get your core players. We want to get 10 or 12 special guys and hold on to those guys. Whether franchising them or doing long term deals early, you need to have a group of 10 or 12 players that are your special guys.

Here is the Titans website write up on how awesome their GM is at free agency:

In his first four years with the Titans he has shown the ability to build a team through the draft, free agency and young talent retention. In free agency, key players he added to the roster include defensive end Jason Babin, wide receivers Justin Gage and Nate Washington, guard Jake Scott, linebacker Will Witherspoon, tight end Alge Crumpler, cornerback Nick Harper and defensive tackle Jovan Haye.

Look at that list of players. Translation, "We don't build through free agency and wow did we get lucky on career under-achiever Jason Babin". Going out and getting Hasselbeck was the closest thing they've made to a free agent splash, and that was completely driven by major need and is still just a short term plug in until they hope their rookie is ready to go.If you're not going to spend the money on bringing in top level talent through free agency, then you need to hang on to what you are able to find in the draft. And since those players they get in the draft will have 4-5 year rookie contracts to play out, by the time they need to re-sign any of those players, CJ's salaries will have dropped to bargain prices if he is still producing at a same level.

I just don't see a major issue given where their team is today. The money to CJ won't be the cause of the Titan's failure if they fail. They likely wouldn't have spent it on a free agent anyway.

Good points. Certainly, over the next year or 2, the money going to CJ won't hurt the Titans. They aren't overflowing with other players that will warrant large contracts.

For the Titans, it very well may not matter and maybe they will not develop or acquire players that warrant large contracts over the next 2-3 years.

Does the above sentence sound like a franchise that's going in the right direction?

Maybe it doesn't matter for the Titans, but I just can't help but look at how the top organizations in 2011 are structured and notice that RBs are rarely among the highest paid players on the team. The Falcons are the only team I can think of. I guess Ryan Grant is up there with the Packers. Maybe that'll change as Rice and Mendy start negotiating new contracts and I'll look like an even bigger idiot than I already do.

There just don't seem to be many examples, over the last decade, of bad teams turning it around by building around a RB.

The Chargers? Maybe. Tough call though. Obviously, LT was a vital part, but he was running for 1600 yards when they were going 4-12. The 4-12 did more for the franchise than the back to back 1600 yard seasons did. Without Brees, Rivers, and Gates, the Chargers don't turn that corner.

The Chiefs? That was pretty short-lived (one great season) and Priest came along the same time as Vermeil and Trent Green did.

It seems to me that trying to build around a great RB is generally just a good way to keep the fans entertained while you wait for the franchise QB to show up (or a great defense to get built).

Not a bad goal by the Titans. Though, I still think playing hardball with CJ was the better long-term move (assuming he couldn't be traded, as RBs have no trade value). If he sat for the year, maybe you get a chance at Luck. If not, you've got a great RB still locked in at a cheap price.

 

[Shutout]

All those people passing him up at picks 7-8-9-10 will kick themselves now

I dont see why. That is about what he is worth.

you are clearly in the minority with that opinion and incorrect in mine.

Well, its a good thing that being right and being in the minority don't go hand in hand then.Last year in standard ppr leagues, CJ finished as the 7th RB, behind

Foster

Hillis

Charles

Peterson

Shady

McFadden

And he was within a dozen points of Rice and Mendy, both of which A LOT of people expect to have better years this year than last year.

So, behind 6 and slighlty ahead of 2. What's so odd to think that he might just actually finish in the 5-8 range? Seems fairly likely and if that the case, I would much rather draft him later than overpay for him.

Your quote says that's what he is worth but you're arguing that was he WAS worth last year. So by this logic since Hillis finished 2nd last year is he worth the #2 this year? Everyone would like to draft him later but in 99 out 100 leagues you won't get that luxury (unless there are wacky scoring systems). CJ will be in the top 4 RBs from here on out and likely in the top 2-3. Who are the 7, 8 or 9 players that you are taking above him? Chances are you will be overpaying on them so you don't overpay for CJ.

Funny how you use Hillis in the example, as most people expect him to fall this year but see how different it all sounds if you say "Since Peterson finished 8the last year, is he worth 8th this year?" Kinda different, huh? Point being is that, obviously, you have to put a bit of thought into it. In Johnson's case, we have seen him finish 7th and lower and we have seen one season where he was the tops. Only problem with that top season is that it took 2000 yards to do it and, as we all know, the chances of duplicating that feat is about as slim as it gets.

I said he is worth the 7-9, 10 range so any of the 8 I mentioned would all be guys I would take (and that's just the RBs).

The entire premise of value based drafting is just that: value. So, for you to say you are going to overpay for him or not get him defeats the whole purpose of doing it, by definition. Which is my point: The guy that takes him 7-10 is getting exactly what they pay for. The guy that picks him 2 or 3 is overpaying. The first guy gets good value. The second guy gets lessr value. And, of course, if someone gets him later, the value increases with each pick that goes by.

I get it if people want to argue until the cows come home about why they want to take him with a top pick. I'm just pointing out that you aren't getting your moneys worth. Its your pick: spend it how you want. I just find it odd that these forums are infested with picks that go something like "I just got Manningham in the 8th round! Shark!" That IS great. So why get all excited about getting great value on a player late in the draft but not practice the same philosophy at the beginning of the draft?

You do realize that they are playing a new season this year and not just replaying last year right? This is an interesting draft philosophy...looks like I know who my #1 wr is....Brandon Lloyd come on down!!! Witten #1 TE...you've just really simplified this all for me. BTW CJ finished 5th last year so you need to move him up in your rankings.

As said before...you have to put some thought into it and adjust accordingly so its pretty obvious to everyone except you that this isn't simply copy and paste from last year. But its funny that the thing you seem to want to repeatedly keep bringing up in an over-simplified manner and critisizing for is exactly the same thing that you, yourself are really doing.

You are basing your justification of a top pick on Johnson based on something he did in the past...one time...and something that no RB in NFL history has ever duplicated once they did it the first time. You preach on value based drafting yet you have not (can not) defend this position because the reality is that history shows you have overpayed for him everytime except one if you used that high a pick on him while the guys that you say are silly to take him 7-10 are foolish (yet they are the ones that are getting exactly what they pay for).

Again, draft as you see fit but you're talking out of multiple sides of your mouth.

And Cj was 7 in a number of my ppr leagues. perhaps you play in some simpler scoring formats.

you're absolutely 100% wrong..I'm not basing a high pick of Johnson solely on what he's done in the past, I'm basing it on what he's likely to do in the future, this year 2011. He's got talent (possibly the most, at least the top 2-3 in the game), opportunity that's better than most (will get a lot of touches and the offense is built around him), injury history and situation. I don't think it's silly that someone take him at 7-10, take him in a heartbeat if 4-7 owners are dumb enough to let him drop that far. My issue is that there's no way he falls to that territory now but your comment was that that is where he s/b ranked which is what I had an issue with.

It's not as if I'm out here on a limb in saying that I think CJ is a top 3 pick, in fact it's you that are clearly against the norm where you have him ranked. Go ahead and start a poll where the question is Now that CJ is signed where would you rank/draft him going into the 2011 season? A) as a RB1 - RB5 or B) RB6 - RB10 C) RB11+. It will be a laughing stock.

No, I said that is what he's worth. And that is based on where he has actually finished. I already said several times that I understand that people rank him top three and why they think that. But the facts are, when you are talking about how "likely" he is to do this or that, ALL the numbers suggest he is more likely to fall lower than top three because A)that is exactly what he has done multiple times and B) the only time he achieved that status was the 2000 yard season and NO player has ever done that more than once. So when you want to talk about likelihoods, you need to realize all the likeliness of every single issue is against you on this.In a nutshell, this is simple: Mark this thread if you want and if CJ is the top guy this year, feel free to bring it back out. If he finsihes as the top 7-10 back, you'll just simply know that, once again, you overpaid and hurt yourself as far as value based drafting goes. That's really all that needs to be said about all of this because all its been has been a lot of you having "you're wrong" opinions, followed by me pointing out the facts of what has happened, followed by you completely dodging everything except erroneous comprehension of what I said.

Enjoy your season. I'm sure we will talk again

 

[cvnpoka]

No, I said that is what he's worth. And that is based on where he has actually finished. I already said several times that I understand that people rank him top three and why they think that. But the facts are, when you are talking about how "likely" he is to do this or that, ALL the numbers suggest he is more likely to fall lower than top three because A)that is exactly what he has done multiple times and B) the only time he achieved that status was the 2000 yard season and NO player has ever done that more than once. So when you want to talk about likelihoods, you need to realize all the likeliness of every single issue is against you on this.

In a nutshell, this is simple: Mark this thread if you want and if CJ is the top guy this year, feel free to bring it back out. If he finsihes as the top 7-10 back, you'll just simply know that, once again, you overpaid and hurt yourself as far as value based drafting goes. That's really all that needs to be said about all of this because all its been has been a lot of you having "you're wrong" opinions, followed by me pointing out the facts of what has happened, followed by you completely dodging everything except erroneous comprehension of what I said.

Enjoy your season. I'm sure we will talk again

what you arrogantly fail to understand is that every player is a massive dog to finish no1, and still a decent dog to finish top 3. that you are so certain cj will finish at 7-10 is even why he is a potential top pick.

 

[fatness]

They can dish it out on Twitter, but don't want to take it. What a doosh!

Chris Johnson wants "fake" fans to shut upPosted by Mike Florio on August 31, 2011, 2:43 PM EDT Fantasy football players want to see Texans running back Arian Foster get healthy, only because they care about their fantasy football teams. Other fantasy football players want to see Titans running back Chris Johnson get his rear end back to the team for the same reason.And some of them apparently are giving Johnson an earful via Twitter. And Johnson doesn't like it."Can these fake Titan fans #### on my timeline I don't have a regular job so don't compare me to you and I can care less if uthink I'm greedy," Johnson said via Twitter.Johnson's decision to lash out comes at a time when there are indications that the Titans will sweeten their offer for Johnson, but not to a level of sweetness that he desires.Speaking of sweetness, can anyone envision Walter Payton telling fans, fake or real, to "####"?C'mon, Chris. Fake and real fans pay the high salary you're trying to get. Don't bite the hands that help feed you.

How soon until the NFL prohibits all players from using social media? Within two years is my guess.

Social Media ruining lives one at a time

We really need an NFL Twitter forum for people who actually think this stuff is relevant.

 

[towney]

Can't get all these neysayers on CJ going before 1.07, if that's the case who are the seven better picks ahead of him?

 

[cubbie5150]

Can't get all these neysayers on CJ going before 1.07, if that's the case who are the seven better picks ahead of him?

Pretty easy to be snide now, after he's signed, isn't it?

 

[redBourne]

General ignorant question, but if he performs as a 1.07 running back, and there are 6 running backs before him, how many of the 6 before him are as reliable? I sometimes don't mind getting what I paid for, or even reaching just a tad over a boom/bust candidate because I can get consistency out of my pick.

My theory is that fantasy football is finding the right balance between consistency and boom/bust players. It's your call where you find your consistency and where you find your boom player.

So to get back where I was, are the 6 before CJ as/less/more reliable?

 

[BaBastage]

General ignorant question, but if he performs as a 1.07 running back

I think 1.07 being toted refers to overall picks, not just running backs.

 

[GCP]

The safest player in the middle of the 1st round is probably Aaron Rodgers. All the top running backs this year have concerns. Chris Johnson is probably as safe as any of them.

 

[redBourne]

General ignorant question, but if he performs as a 1.07 running back

I think 1.07 being toted refers to overall picks, not just running backs.

Either Aaron Rodgers, as someone noted above is the only safest option. I've seen Vick going in the middle of the first, but that's the only other player. So it might has well just be running backs, because we all know that Vick is a huge risk for injury. So for RB's it's just ADP, Rice, Foster and Charles. Honestly, I wouldn't feel bad taking any one of them if they fell to me at 4, 5, 6 or 7.

 

[Badgers Fan]

How bad is it that Hall is suspended for 4 games? I thought he was a decent fb, but maybe he doesn't matter?

 

[Shutout]

2 QB starting league!Jamaal Charles 8th pickChris Johnson 13th pickYESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[Shutout]

All those people passing him up at picks 7-8-9-10 will kick themselves now

I dont see why. That is about what he is worth.

you are clearly in the minority with that opinion and incorrect in mine.

Well, its a good thing that being right and being in the minority don't go hand in hand then.Last year in standard ppr leagues, CJ finished as the 7th RB, behind

Foster

Hillis

Charles

Peterson

Shady

McFadden

And he was within a dozen points of Rice and Mendy, both of which A LOT of people expect to have better years this year than last year.

So, behind 6 and slighlty ahead of 2. What's so odd to think that he might just actually finish in the 5-8 range? Seems fairly likely and if that the case, I would much rather draft him later than overpay for him.

Your quote says that's what he is worth but you're arguing that was he WAS worth last year. So by this logic since Hillis finished 2nd last year is he worth the #2 this year? Everyone would like to draft him later but in 99 out 100 leagues you won't get that luxury (unless there are wacky scoring systems). CJ will be in the top 4 RBs from here on out and likely in the top 2-3. Who are the 7, 8 or 9 players that you are taking above him? Chances are you will be overpaying on them so you don't overpay for CJ.

Funny how you use Hillis in the example, as most people expect him to fall this year but see how different it all sounds if you say "Since Peterson finished 8the last year, is he worth 8th this year?" Kinda different, huh? Point being is that, obviously, you have to put a bit of thought into it. In Johnson's case, we have seen him finish 7th and lower and we have seen one season where he was the tops. Only problem with that top season is that it took 2000 yards to do it and, as we all know, the chances of duplicating that feat is about as slim as it gets.

I said he is worth the 7-9, 10 range so any of the 8 I mentioned would all be guys I would take (and that's just the RBs).

The entire premise of value based drafting is just that: value. So, for you to say you are going to overpay for him or not get him defeats the whole purpose of doing it, by definition. Which is my point: The guy that takes him 7-10 is getting exactly what they pay for. The guy that picks him 2 or 3 is overpaying. The first guy gets good value. The second guy gets lessr value. And, of course, if someone gets him later, the value increases with each pick that goes by.

I get it if people want to argue until the cows come home about why they want to take him with a top pick. I'm just pointing out that you aren't getting your moneys worth. Its your pick: spend it how you want. I just find it odd that these forums are infested with picks that go something like "I just got Manningham in the 8th round! Shark!" That IS great. So why get all excited about getting great value on a player late in the draft but not practice the same philosophy at the beginning of the draft?

You do realize that they are playing a new season this year and not just replaying last year right? This is an interesting draft philosophy...looks like I know who my #1 wr is....Brandon Lloyd come on down!!! Witten #1 TE...you've just really simplified this all for me. BTW CJ finished 5th last year so you need to move him up in your rankings.

As said before...you have to put some thought into it and adjust accordingly so its pretty obvious to everyone except you that this isn't simply copy and paste from last year. But its funny that the thing you seem to want to repeatedly keep bringing up in an over-simplified manner and critisizing for is exactly the same thing that you, yourself are really doing.

You are basing your justification of a top pick on Johnson based on something he did in the past...one time...and something that no RB in NFL history has ever duplicated once they did it the first time. You preach on value based drafting yet you have not (can not) defend this position because the reality is that history shows you have overpayed for him everytime except one if you used that high a pick on him while the guys that you say are silly to take him 7-10 are foolish (yet they are the ones that are getting exactly what they pay for).

Again, draft as you see fit but you're talking out of multiple sides of your mouth.

And Cj was 7 in a number of my ppr leagues. perhaps you play in some simpler scoring formats.

you're absolutely 100% wrong..I'm not basing a high pick of Johnson solely on what he's done in the past, I'm basing it on what he's likely to do in the future, this year 2011. He's got talent (possibly the most, at least the top 2-3 in the game), opportunity that's better than most (will get a lot of touches and the offense is built around him), injury history and situation. I don't think it's silly that someone take him at 7-10, take him in a heartbeat if 4-7 owners are dumb enough to let him drop that far. My issue is that there's no way he falls to that territory now but your comment was that that is where he s/b ranked which is what I had an issue with.

It's not as if I'm out here on a limb in saying that I think CJ is a top 3 pick, in fact it's you that are clearly against the norm where you have him ranked. Go ahead and start a poll where the question is Now that CJ is signed where would you rank/draft him going into the 2011 season? A) as a RB1 - RB5 or B) RB6 - RB10 C) RB11+. It will be a laughing stock.

No, I said that is what he's worth. And that is based on where he has actually finished. I already said several times that I understand that people rank him top three and why they think that. But the facts are, when you are talking about how "likely" he is to do this or that, ALL the numbers suggest he is more likely to fall lower than top three because A)that is exactly what he has done multiple times and B) the only time he achieved that status was the 2000 yard season and NO player has ever done that more than once. So when you want to talk about likelihoods, you need to realize all the likeliness of every single issue is against you on this.In a nutshell, this is simple: Mark this thread if you want and if CJ is the top guy this year, feel free to bring it back out. If he finsihes as the top 7-10 back, you'll just simply know that, once again, you overpaid and hurt yourself as far as value based drafting goes. That's really all that needs to be said about all of this because all its been has been a lot of you having "you're wrong" opinions, followed by me pointing out the facts of what has happened, followed by you completely dodging everything except erroneous comprehension of what I said.

Enjoy your season. I'm sure we will talk again

Feeling like you overpaid yet ?