Orlando Pace Recovering Slowly (1 Viewer)

[Bob Magaw]

not sure if this has been posted before... recently saw this in the PFW NFC West whispers for 7-13... it may be that many weren't counting on his return... the off-season news i had heard from him previously was more optimistic (albeit cautiously)... the offense is expected to be better this season, possibly much better... but i think pace is being heavily counted on to be ready (& probably he shouldn't be after season-ending injuries two years in a row)... they don't have a great plan B in place if he can't go... barron would flip to LT like last year, but i don't think prized rookie OL john greco would be ready to play RT right off the bat (& i'm not sure they even want him to play RT, & may view him as a better OG prospect?)... at least they added bell in free agency, & get a few other OL returning from injury...

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+W...cwest071308.htm

"With the Rams’ training camp fast approaching, we hear DE Leonard Little, who is coming off a serious toe injury that forced him to miss the final nine games in ‘07, is further along in his recovery than OLT Orlando Pace, who is recuperating at a much slower pace from the torn rotator cuff and torn labrum in his right shoulder that he suffered in Week One last season."

* this is the most disturbing news i've heard yet about pace's readiness to play, & it is alarming that it is so close to training camp & the season... i think most were expecting him to at least be able to play in some form, but it was more of a question of would he break down again... so unless others were already discounting for that possibility in their rankings of rams skill position players, the rankings could need to be revisited if pace can't go... just as he could be a key piece of the puzzle for the offense, his absence would be a big missing piece of the puzzle...

 

[TheWick]

All reports from Jim Thomas have been good so far. Hmmmm. This could put a real damper on things.

 

[Bob Magaw]

All reports from Jim Thomas have been good so far. Hmmmm. This could put a real damper on things.

jim thomas is imo the top conduit of rams info... when was the last time you heard a positive report... if recently, that would carry a lot of weight with me...if it was a month or more, the PFW blurb may be more current?maybe i am being an alarmist... nowhere in the article does it even suggest he won't be able to start the season... but reading between the lines, i found the news ominous... i'll keep a close eye on it in training camp & report what i find...

 

[HMH]

Most the PD staff who cover the Rams have been on hiatus (vacation) per Bernie Miklasz...here is a recent article from Bill Coats making no mention of Pace coming along slowly. I've always been suspect of profootballweekly, especially when they refer to Torry Holt as "Terry," and were unaware the Rams moved their training camp (again). I guess we will find out for sure this coming week when J.Thomas, and J.Gordan open up the Q & A's:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/st...CD?OpenDocument

Little could be large

By Bill Coats

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

07/20/2008

Oh, woe is the Rams fan these days.

— The team is coming off a 3-13 season, its worst since moving here in 1995. It hasn't posted a winning record since 2003 and has scored just one playoff win since its loss in the Super Bowl following the 2001 season.

— After perfect attendance for nearly 12 full seasons, home games no longer are automatic sellouts (unless the Bears, Packers or Steelers happen to be in town).

— The head coach, roundly vilified during and after last year's fiasco, is perched upon a very toasty seat.

— Sale rumors swirl around the franchise, despite owner Chip Rosenbloom's continuing insistence that he isn't looking for buyers.

— A stadium issue, which figures to be exceedingly contentious if taxpayers are asked to come up with hundreds of millions to keep the team here, looms on the horizon.

But, hey, it's July; that inelegant 48-19 season-ending loss at Arizona is almost seven months old. So, while conceding that the Rams have plenty of issues, challenges and shortcomings with which to contend, let's for a moment put on a happy face, haul out the rose-colored glasses, consider the glass half-full, swill some Kool-Aid and accentuate the positive.

Here, in no particular order, are 15 things to be excited about as the team prepares to gather this week at Concordia University in Mequon, Wis., for the start of training camp:

— Little could be large

After limping through last season with a debilitating big-toe injury that eventually required surgery, veteran defensive end Leonard Little appears to have regained his burst. If Little can approach the form he displayed while averaging double-figure sack totals over six seasons, the defense will get a big boost.

— Spoonball

Will Witherspoon has developed into a top-tier middle linebacker who should have been invited to the Pro Bowl after a season in which he led the team in tackles (132) and sacks (seven).

— Young guns

The defensive line, a problem area in recent years, is transforming with an influx of promising youngsters. The group includes end Chris Long and tackle Adam Carriker, first-round draftees the past two years, plus second-year tackle Clifton Ryan, third-year tackle Claude Wroten and third-year end Victor Adeyanju.

— O.J. is OK

Free safety Oshiomogho "O.J." Atogwe flourished in his second full season as a starter; his eight interceptions led the NFC. If he can build on his '07 performance, a trip to Hawaii next February could wind up on Atogwe's itinerary.

— Special legs

The retirement of venerable kicker Jeff Wilkins was a blow, but Josh Brown, a free-agent pickup from Seattle, is a suitable replacement. He and punter Donnie Jones should form one of the league's best special-teams tandems.

— Hale, hearty . . . and due for some good luck

After last year's surfeit of injuries, the offensive line is healthy and brimming with potential. Guard Jacob Bell is an important addition. The comeback of tackle Orlando Pace, who missed most of the last two seasons, is the obvious key.

— Rookie help

Draft picks John Greco (third round), a tackle, and Roy Schuening (fifth), a guard, look as if they will be able to provide immediate depth on the O-line.

— Backfield in motion

Steven Jackson ranks among the NFL's best running backs, and Antonio Pittman has shown flashes that he might emerge as an effective backup.

— Shopping spree

New personnel chief Billy Devaney made some wise choices in the free-agent market, notably Brown, Bell, tight end Anthony Becht and wide receiver Reche Caldwell. All addressed obvious needs.

— Catching on fast

Fleet rookie wideouts Donnie Avery (second round) and Keenan Burton (fourth) were highly impressive in the spring. "I've never seen two young guys that are as hungry to be as good as they can be but also have the talent to go with it," coach Scott Linehan said. "Neither one of them does anything but eat, drink, breathe, sleep football."

— Call me Al

Linehan called right away when vet Al Saunders became available and quickly hired him as his offensive coordinator. The perpetually energetic Saunders has a solid track record and should help re-ignite a unit that lost its way in '07.

— Coaching 'em up

In addition to Saunders, Linehan made significant staff upgrades by bringing aboard well-regarded assistant coaches Art Valero (running backs), Steve Loney (offensive line) and Terry Shea (quarterbacks), plus promoting Ron Milus (secondary) and shifting Jim Chaney to tight ends from assistant offensive line.

— Q-factor

Arguably the most pleasant surprise of last season was linebacker Quinton Culberson, who not only made the team as an undrafted rookie but starred on special teams and piled up a team-high 14 tackles vs. Arizona in his lone start on defense. Culberson will compete with Chris Draft for the starting job on the strong side.

— Big Mac is back

After what he described as a "miserable year" in his first season with the Rams, tight end Randy McMichael figures to be a far larger piece of the offensive puzzle. McMichael was targeted regularly during the spring practices and often was seen downfield, an area he rarely experienced last year.

— Dante is blazing

Record-setting return specialist Dante Hall is looking spry and speedy after an ankle injury scuttled a significant portion of his first season with the Rams.

 

[Drop]

I believe that Dan Arkush covers part or all of the NFC West for PFW. I know for sure he covers the Cardinals for them and I can recall a couple things that just made me lose respect for his insight. He's a slacker it seems and doesn't really have a good football mind to put it mildly. I love PFW, but the coverage is very lopsided at times.

I don't remember where I heard/read it, but I do recall hearing positive reports on Orlando Pace's recovery and I thought he was poised for a bit of a rejuvenation. Better info on his status should be coming out pretty soon, we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Sinrman]

I would not be surprised to see him retire in the next couple of years...

 

[Lash]

Also, never underestimate the training camp effect, many vets often mysteriously have "lingering" issues and all of a sudden are fine a week or two before the season

not saying that is happening here but you never know

 

[TheFanatic]

Also, never underestimate the training camp effect, many vets often mysteriously have "lingering" issues and all of a sudden are fine a week or two before the seasonnot saying that is happening here but you never know

Pace has only participated in something like 3 full training camps over his entire career. His first season he signed his rookie contract in week 3 of the preseason. He hates training camp. They Franchised him a couple years in a row and he waited to sign the offer till TC was almost over or was over each of those years. They finally inked him to a big contract and he participated in that entire TC, but for the most part the guy has avoided it like the plague. So, because of that I take the article with a grain of salt, but then again the guy has been an absolute bum since signing the big contract. Thanks for helping us win a SB Big O, but if you can't play all 16 this year, get the hell off my team and retire you big piece of ####....

 

[HMH]

Also, never underestimate the training camp effect, many vets often mysteriously have "lingering" issues and all of a sudden are fine a week or two before the seasonnot saying that is happening here but you never know

Pace has only participated in something like 3 full training camps over his entire career. His first season he signed his rookie contract in week 3 of the preseason. He hates training camp. They Franchised him a couple years in a row and he waited to sign the offer till TC was almost over or was over each of those years. They finally inked him to a big contract and he participated in that entire TC, but for the most part the guy has avoided it like the plague. So, because of that I take the article with a grain of salt, but then again the guy has been an absolute bum since signing the big contract. Thanks for helping us win a SB Big O, but if you can't play all 16 this year, get the hell off my team and retire you big piece of ####....

I think you're being a little too critical of the guy, other than the last two years the guy has been healthy. Pace makes a huge difference for the Rams when available to play (enclosed clipped from www.stlouisrams.com):2006 SEASON: Left game at Seattle in Week 10 with torn left triceps…placed on reserve/injured list 11/14.2005 SEASON: Earned seventh consecutive Pro Bowl invitation, tying him for fourth in Rams’ history, behind Hall of Famer DT Merlin Olsen (14), Hall of Famer G Tom Mack (11), and LB Les Richter (8), and equal to Hall of Famer DE Jack Youngblood.• Started all 16 games at left tackle, joining C Andy McCollum and G Adam Timmerman as only Rams linemen to start every game.2004 SEASON: Earned sixth consecutive Pro Bowl invitation.• Started all 16 games at left tackle…one of three linemen to start every game (C Andy McCollum, G Adam Timmerman).• Blocked for an offense that ranked eighth in the NFL (third in the NFC) in first downs (321).• Helped Rams convert 13 of 16 fourth down attempts, second highest fourth-down conversion percentage in the NFL (68.4%)… part of an offensive line that did not allow a sack in two games, vs. Arizona 9/12 and at San Francisco 10/3.2003 SEASON: Earned fifth consecutive Pro Bowl invitation.• Started every game.• Helped the Rams’ offense to rank second in the NFL with an average of 27.9 points a game.• Part of offensive line that did not allow a sack in two games (at Seattle 9/21 and vs. Atlanta 10/13). 2002 SEASON: Earned fourth consecutive Pro Bowl invitation despite missing six games due to injury (three to calf injury games 4-6; three to hamstring games 13-16).• Part of offensive line with sackless game vs. San Diego 11/10 with 48 pass attempts by QB Marc Bulger.• Showed dedication returning from hamstring injury to start final game vs. San Francisco 12/30. 2001 SEASON: Earned third consecutive Pro Bowl invitation.• Started every game for fourth consecutive season.• Played in 100 percent offensive plays, joining RG Adam Timmerman as the only Rams to play in every single offensive play.• Helped offensive line to no sacks vs. Carolina 11/11. 2000 SEASON: Earned second consecutive Pro Bowl invitation.• Anchor of offensive line that helped offense produce most passing yards in NFL history.• Played in 1,006 of possible 1,013 offensive plays (99.3 percent), second highest total on offensive line.• One of three Rams' offensive linemen (C Andy McCollum, RT Ryan Tucker) who were not penalized for holding.• Helped Rams' to no sacks vs. Minnesota 12/10. 1999 SEASON: Earned first Pro Bowl invite after third season in league…first Ram tackle voted to Pro Bowl since Jackie Slater in 1990.• Punishing blocker anchored front unit of league's top-ranked offense.• Played in 90 percent of offensive plays (896 of 994).1998 SEASON: Started 16 games at left tackle…named Pro Bowl alternate.• Helped Rams rush for season high 181 yards on the ground against Buffalo 9/20. 1997 SEASON: Played in 13 games with nine starts at left tackle.• Played in every offensive snap in each of his nine starts.• Made first start of NFL career at Oakland 9/28.

 

[The Man with the Plan]

Oddly (or maybe not) enough Steven Jackson has had some of his best games when Orlando Pace has been out so if he doesn't play much I wouldn't really downgrade him too much.

 

[Mark Wimer]

not sure if this has been posted before... recently saw this in the PFW NFC West whispers for 7-13... it may be that many weren't counting on his return... the off-season news i had heard from him previously was more optimistic (albeit cautiously)... the offense is expected to be better this season, possibly much better... but i think pace is being heavily counted on to be ready (& probably he shouldn't be after season-ending injuries two years in a row)... they don't have a great plan B in place if he can't go... barron would flip to LT like last year, but i don't think prized rookie OL john greco would be ready to play RT right off the bat (& i'm not sure they even want him to play RT, & may view him as a better OG prospect?)... at least they added bell in free agency, & get a few other OL returning from injury...

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+W...cwest071308.htm

"With the Rams’ training camp fast approaching, we hear DE Leonard Little, who is coming off a serious toe injury that forced him to miss the final nine games in ‘07, is further along in his recovery than OLT Orlando Pace, who is recuperating at a much slower pace from the torn rotator cuff and torn labrum in his right shoulder that he suffered in Week One last season."

* this is the most disturbing news i've heard yet about pace's readiness to play, & it is alarming that it is so close to training camp & the season... i think most were expecting him to at least be able to play in some form, but it was more of a question of would he break down again... so unless others were already discounting for that possibility in their rankings of rams skill position players, the rankings could need to be revisited if pace can't go... just as he could be a key piece of the puzzle for the offense, his absence would be a big missing piece of the puzzle...

This is from 4/20/08 - an article solely focusing on Pace's 2 most recent injuries and his recovery from the shoulder injury:

"The triceps was tough, but when I did the shoulder, it was one of the toughest things I've had to handle, not only in my professional career but in my life," Pace said in a rare offseason interview. "I was so excited about coming back and playing last year ... and I couldn't even make it through one game. It was so disappointing. It took me awhile to get over it mentally."

Pace, 32, underwent surgery Sept. 20 in Houston to repair his rotator cuff and labrum. Rehab began soon thereafter, although he was in a sling for several weeks.

"It feels pretty good," Pace reported. "When it first started, it was a slow process. But now it's a matter of lifting weights and getting it strong again, getting it back up to where I was."

His surgeon, Dr. Walt Lowe, has told Pace that he should be fully cleared in time for the start of training camp in late July. "He wants to take it pretty slow," Pace said. "But once I get the strength back up, the contact ... is easy to come back."

Coming back from the arm injury worried him more "because you do so much punching," he explained. "The shoulder, being that it's my right shoulder, I seldom get it caught outside. As long as I can keep it close and tucked in, I won't have any reservations about it."

Not exactly recent, but it gives a good snapshot of Pace's view of his progress/where he still needs work, FWIW.

 

[Bob Magaw]

i had read that article, mark, but thanx for the benefit of those that may not have...

no question pace has had a phenomenal career in terms of his body of work... he, ogden & jones have been/were the top 3 LTs of their era... i'm guessing he will be in the HoF, i don't know enough about the relative frequency of OL inclusions vs skill positions & defense to say if it is a slam dunk...

WOW, merlin olsen made the pro bowl FOURTEEN times... no idea what the record is... guessing darrell green & bruce matthews had a few (forget how long a career reggie white had)...

one point raised on another board reminded me that carriker is recuperating from a similar injury (torn labrum &/or rotator cuff)... he noted that both were known to be eased back during training camp, & so this isn't really "new" news, & falls into category of information we already possessed?

my thought there is carriker was injured nearly four months later (granted he is a lot younger & would be expected to heal faster)... so if he is expected to be ready to start the season (& i haven't anything to the contrary, but than teams haven't had any contact or hitting in the offseason, which will be the acid test)... it seems like pace should be at least as far along as carriker?

i'll try & ask resident MD jene if there are any warning signs on not being able to come back from this, what the usual recovery time is, is it realistic to be 100% (or close) within a season, is it a common injury in football & for OL/DL, does this sound like a boselli situation... i'm guessing the prognosis might change if a player is as football middle-aged as pace?

 

[Londo]

Oddly (or maybe not) enough Steven Jackson has had some of his best games when Orlando Pace has been out so if he doesn't play much I wouldn't really downgrade him too much.

I think that may simply be a reflection of the fact that Jackson has only been the starter for 3 years and Pace has missed a good chunk of that time. I agree with your point though, that Pace's absence doesn't necessarily kill Jackson's value. It hurts the hell out of the rest of the offense though (to the point that they need to rely on Jackson to get them through, I suppose).

 

[TheFanatic]

I think you're being a little too critical of the guy, other than the last two years the guy has been healthy. Pace makes a huge difference for the Rams when available to play (enclosed clipped from www.stlouisrams.com):

I am fully aware of what the guy did for the Rams. I live in St. Louis. But Pace has a poor work ethic. He HATES training camp. Does everything he can to avoid it. That may have worked out when he was young but now that he is getting up there his lack of conditioning is coming to the fore. See, the guy is a freak of nature. So much natural talent and phenomenal technique. But as he gets older he needs to be in camp and while he hates it he needs to get himself into game shape. And the fact that he signed the big deal he had been fighting for the last few years and now has played, what, 3 games since signing that deal? That's a load of crap. I did hear a rumor that he rededicated himself after the injury last year and is actually embracing a stronger work ethic than ever before. Maybe that's just coach speak during the offseason. I'll reserve judgment till what I see him do on the field. When I heard the rumor someone mentioned what Roaf did later in his career and they expect that out of Pace the next 3-4 years. I'm hoping for the best, but I'm skeptical....

 

[Bob Magaw]

jim thomas addressed this in an article today...

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/st...E3?OpenDocument

here is the business part...

Two Rams starters coming off shoulder surgeries — left tackle Orlando Pace and defensive lineman Adam Carriker — will be examined by team doctors shortly after they arrive in Wisconsin on Thursday.

"Carriker, we really believe he's probably going to be cleared (for contact work)," Linehan said.

Linehan was a bit more cautious when it came to Pace.

"Orlando is in great shape," Linehan said. "He has really worked and has got himself in a good spot. It's a matter of what the docs say. I think they just want to see if he's ready to take that next step as far as contact. Not to be overly cautious, but he's had two bad-luck injuries two years in a row."

____________________________________________________________

it doesn't say pace won't be cleared... but linehan does specifically say that carriker's clearance is expected, & says something different about pace...

IF pace isn't cleared for contact, that would leave two questions for me still...

given the gap of almost four months between the injuries of pace & carriker, is it alarming that pace still may not be ready (was the injury more severe, attributable to difference in age?)...

also, with the injury almost a year ago, if he isn't ready yet, does that increase the chance that with a little over a month until the regular season starts he isn't ready then...

 

[Mark Wimer]

jim thomas addressed this in an article today...

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/st...E3?OpenDocument

here is the business part...

Two Rams starters coming off shoulder surgeries — left tackle Orlando Pace and defensive lineman Adam Carriker — will be examined by team doctors shortly after they arrive in Wisconsin on Thursday.

"Carriker, we really believe he's probably going to be cleared (for contact work)," Linehan said.

Linehan was a bit more cautious when it came to Pace.

"Orlando is in great shape," Linehan said. "He has really worked and has got himself in a good spot. It's a matter of what the docs say. I think they just want to see if he's ready to take that next step as far as contact. Not to be overly cautious, but he's had two bad-luck injuries two years in a row."

____________________________________________________________

it doesn't say pace won't be cleared... but linehan does specifically say that carriker's clearance is expected, & says something different about pace...

IF pace isn't cleared for contact, that would leave two questions for me still...

given the gap of almost four months between the injuries of pace & carriker, is it alarming that pace still may not be ready (was the injury more severe, attributable to difference in age?)...

also, with the injury almost a year ago, if he isn't ready yet, does that increase the chance that with a little over a month until the regular season starts he isn't ready then...

Thanks Bob - I guess we'll have to wait and see on Pace until camp opens/first preseason game rolls around...I agree that the things that coach Linehan didn't say seems to temper expectations about Paces' readiness for a full slate of practices, at the minimum...

 

[TheFanatic]

given the gap of almost four months between the injuries of pace & carriker, is it alarming that pace still may not be ready (was the injury more severe, attributable to difference in age?)...also, with the injury almost a year ago, if he isn't ready yet, does that increase the chance that with a little over a month until the regular season starts he isn't ready then...

Don't discount a vet milking an injury to miss a couple weeks of training camp or more. My money is he is cleared for contact two weeks into TC.And as far as Linehan taking it slowly with Pace, wouldn't you? Pace right now is probably the make or break player on the team that will determine if Linehan is a HC or and OC in 2009. The line and the game plan is built on stout left Tackle play. If we're lining up Alex Baron over there for a majority of the season the Rams are going to be picking high again in 2009

 

[Bob Magaw]

given the gap of almost four months between the injuries of pace & carriker, is it alarming that pace still may not be ready (was the injury more severe, attributable to difference in age?)...also, with the injury almost a year ago, if he isn't ready yet, does that increase the chance that with a little over a month until the regular season starts he isn't ready then...

Don't discount a vet milking an injury to miss a couple weeks of training camp or more. My money is he is cleared for contact two weeks into TC.And as far as Linehan taking it slowly with Pace, wouldn't you? Pace right now is probably the make or break player on the team that will determine if Linehan is a HC or and OC in 2009. The line and the game plan is built on stout left Tackle play. If we're lining up Alex Baron over there for a majority of the season the Rams are going to be picking high again in 2009

sure, in general i might rest pace & take it more easy on other veterans...i'm still concerned about the injury, though... lets just say i would be less worried if they were resting him just due to age reasons, & not injury-related... it is the status of his shoulder & readiness to play that is the question...i certainly hope you are right that pace is ready as a rams fan... i agree that pre-season games 2-3 are the ones to target to see where he is at... if he can't go by then, these type of questions & concerns will increase in frequency...i also agree that even without pace, jackson could still get his... it will probably lead to a downgrade of the passing game... OTOH, ian allen at fantasy index already seems to be pretty down on bulger... & maybe he should be... even aside from questions about the OL & bulger, holt could be in decline & is in his early 30s, bruce is gone & bennett doesn't inspire in me a huge amount of confidence (if he doesn't rebound this season that is going to look like a really questionable signing), reche caldwell is decent but doesn't scare defenses, & the next two best WRs may be the rookies avery & burton (who i both like & think they have upside, but it might be unrealistic to expect big contributions from this season... due to the big jump up in competion for avery especially, it could be bumpy road initially)...i'll be really disappointed if the rams draft in the top 10 in 2009, with or without pace (my view may be contrarian, as rookie DL typically start slowly, but i expect chris long to be an impact player & make the defense better)... if they are subjected to serial OL injuries like last season, than anything is possible... a top 5 pick wouldn't surprise me...

 

[TheFanatic]

given the gap of almost four months between the injuries of pace & carriker, is it alarming that pace still may not be ready (was the injury more severe, attributable to difference in age?)...also, with the injury almost a year ago, if he isn't ready yet, does that increase the chance that with a little over a month until the regular season starts he isn't ready then...

Don't discount a vet milking an injury to miss a couple weeks of training camp or more. My money is he is cleared for contact two weeks into TC.And as far as Linehan taking it slowly with Pace, wouldn't you? Pace right now is probably the make or break player on the team that will determine if Linehan is a HC or and OC in 2009. The line and the game plan is built on stout left Tackle play. If we're lining up Alex Baron over there for a majority of the season the Rams are going to be picking high again in 2009

sure, in general i might rest pace & take it more easy on other veterans...i'm still concerned about the injury, though... lets just say i would be less worried if they were resting him just due to age reasons, & not injury-related... it is the status of his shoulder & readiness to play that is the question...i certainly hope you are right that pace is ready as a rams fan... i agree that pre-season games 2-3 are the ones to target to see where he is at... if he can't go by then, these type of questions & concerns will increase in frequency...i also agree that even without pace, jackson could still get his... it will probably lead to a downgrade of the passing game... OTOH, ian allen at fantasy index already seems to be pretty down on bulger... & maybe he should be... even aside from questions about the OL & bulger, holt could be in decline & is in his early 30s, bruce is gone & bennett doesn't inspire in me a huge amount of confidence (if he doesn't rebound this season that is going to look like a really questionable signing), reche caldwell is decent but doesn't scare defenses, & the next two best WRs may be the rookies avery & burton (who i both like & think they have upside, but it might be unrealistic to expect big contributions from this season... due to the big jump up in competion for avery especially, it could be bumpy road initially)...i'll be really disappointed if the rams draft in the top 10 in 2009, with or without pace (my view may be contrarian, as rookie DL typically start slowly, but i expect chris long to be an impact player & make the defense better)... if they are subjected to serial OL injuries like last season, than anything is possible... a top 5 pick wouldn't surprise me...

I'm not at all sure that Pace will be ready. I'm not to happy with the guy signing the big contract and then tanking. But I can understand the taking it easy with him.And while they got rid of Bruce, I really think the model they are going for is more of a Dallas in the 90's model. 1 stud WR, 1 stud RB, 1 stud TE and a QB that doesn't make mistakes. Bulger is EXTREMELY accurate when he has time to throw. They really want McMichael to be the stud TE and I think that Holt has a few years left. Most of these prognosticators are all about, "what have you done for me lately." They don't remember Bulger tearing it up. They see down numbers for a year and call it a trend. That line rebounds and those down numbers are simply an anomaly. The way I see it the last 2 years they have really worked on improving the line which to me is THE most important thing a team can do. Two years ago Pace goes down, Baron is green and some guys got old fast. Last year everyone went down with injury, but they brought in a couple FA's and drafted some linemen. If they continue that trend and always keep the cupboards full of extra linemen then this team will be strong for years. Martz didn't draft any O-Lineman with any early picks. Too busy picking toys for his offense. Trung Candidate anyone? Wow, he's fast. Wow, he sucks. The Rams are in a deep hole because of that but would've been able to fill that hole if Pace stayed healthy. Well, you know the rest....I'm saying that you should buy low on Rams players this year. I wouldn't stock your team with Bulger, Holt, McMichael, SJax and one of the possibilities for WR2, but snag one of those guys and your return on investment will be good...

 

[chris1969]

Pace to start training camp on PUP list

 

[HMH]

*Update*

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/st...95?OpenDocument

Pace, Carriker in camp Friday

By Jim Thomas

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

07/25/2008

MEQUON, Wis.-- Left tackle Orlando Pace and defensive lineman Adam Carriker will both be on the practice field Friday afternoon when the Rams conduct their first workout of training camp at Concordia University Wisconsin.

Pace and Carriker both are coming off shoulder surgery. After meeting with Rams medical officials early Thursday evening following the team's arrival in Wisconsin, Pace and Carriker were cleared for practice. In the days leading up to camp, Linehan had raised the possibility that Pace might begin training camp on the physically unable to perform list. But that won't be case, following Thursday's discussions.

"Orlando's cleared for practice," Linehan said late Thursday night. "We're going to limit his reps."

But Pace will practice. In terms of Pace's early camp workload, Linehan said, "We're going to err on the conservative side."

Medically, Linehan said everything checked out fine in terms of Pace's surgery for a torn labrum. Pace's overall conditioning is good, but he still needs to get into football shape.

As for Carriker, Linehan said he will do more than Pac on the practice field but still wouldn't get a full workload at the start of camp.

 

[Mark Wimer]

Hey Y'all,

The latest from a story today: LINK

Now that training camp has arrived, he must get his body and his head into "football" shape.

"I feel good," Pace said. "But you never know until you take that one shot. ... The tough thing about practicing now is just mentally being willing to throw the arm in there and use it, not even thinking about it."

As early in camp as Saturday, Pace said his right shoulder felt a little sore. But he added, "Everything is sore."

Sounds like he's about where he should be as camp opens, FWIW

 

[bulger2holt]

I heard Pace has been dominating Chris Long in camp so far.

 

[TheFanatic]

I heard Pace has been dominating Chris Long in camp so far.

I heard that too. Gotta like Long learning from one of the best...

 

[HMH]

I heard Pace has been dominating Chris Long in camp so far.

I heard that too. Gotta like Long learning from one of the best...

Wow, sounds like someone has changed their stance on Pace.

 

[TheFanatic]

I heard Pace has been dominating Chris Long in camp so far.

I heard that too. Gotta like Long learning from one of the best...

Wow, sounds like someone has changed their stance on Pace.

Pace is one of the best if he's healthy and is on the field. He hasn't been that since he signed the big contract. Hoping for the best here. Expecting to be disappointed though...

 

[omally]

The injury bug bit the Rams offense bad last year. I expect them to bounce back this year, and be competitive in their division.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I don't know that I'll be able to draft any Rams this year given the debacle that was last year. This year's not shaping up any better...From Rotoworld:

Orlando Pace-T- Rams Aug. 22 - 10:53 am et Orlando Pace revealed Thursday that he reinjured his right shoulder during Saturday night's preseason game."I did it when I was trying to make a tackle (after an interception). I landed on it pretty hard," Pace said. "I didn't even think about it ... I didn't even feel the swelling until Monday, when I came in and I couldn't raise my arm too high." He practiced with the team Thursday, but will probably skip the Rams' final preseason game as a precautionary measure. He could have a tough time staying healthy all season.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I don't know that I'll be able to draft any Rams this year given the debacle that was last year. This year's not shaping up any better...From Rotoworld:

Orlando Pace-T- Rams Aug. 22 - 10:53 am et Orlando Pace revealed Thursday that he reinjured his right shoulder during Saturday night's preseason game."I did it when I was trying to make a tackle (after an interception). I landed on it pretty hard," Pace said. "I didn't even think about it ... I didn't even feel the swelling until Monday, when I came in and I couldn't raise my arm too high." He practiced with the team Thursday, but will probably skip the Rams' final preseason game as a precautionary measure. He could have a tough time staying healthy all season.

Nice job AD, this is crucial info. The OL and the health of an OL has so much impact on the skill players.

 

[TheFanatic]

I don't know that I'll be able to draft any Rams this year given the debacle that was last year. This year's not shaping up any better...From Rotoworld:

Orlando Pace-T- Rams Aug. 22 - 10:53 am et Orlando Pace revealed Thursday that he reinjured his right shoulder during Saturday night's preseason game."I did it when I was trying to make a tackle (after an interception). I landed on it pretty hard," Pace said. "I didn't even think about it ... I didn't even feel the swelling until Monday, when I came in and I couldn't raise my arm too high." He practiced with the team Thursday, but will probably skip the Rams' final preseason game as a precautionary measure. He could have a tough time staying healthy all season.

Nice job AD, this is crucial info. The OL and the health of an OL has so much impact on the skill players.

Also, take an Pace "injury" in preseason with a grain of salt the size of Pace himself. The guy has made an art out of skipping practice sessions in TC. That and the coaching staff is going to treat this with the utmost caution. I'm not worried about Pace just yet...

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Also, take an Pace "injury" in preseason with a grain of salt the size of Pace himself. The guy has made an art out of skipping practice sessions in TC. That and the coaching staff is going to treat this with the utmost caution. I'm not worried about Pace just yet...

I'm worried about him playing once in the past 23 games.

 

[BigRed]

I think you're being a little too critical of the guy, other than the last two years the guy has been healthy.

You long list of info says otherwise, ie 5 out of 11 years he's been banged up to some degree or other. Sorry not exactly dazzled by that injury history and given that "great when healthy" doesn't wow me either. I'll probably pass on all Rams this year.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I don't know that I'll be able to draft any Rams this year given the debacle that was last year. This year's not shaping up any better...From Rotoworld:

Orlando Pace-T- Rams Aug. 22 - 10:53 am et Orlando Pace revealed Thursday that he reinjured his right shoulder during Saturday night's preseason game."I did it when I was trying to make a tackle (after an interception). I landed on it pretty hard," Pace said. "I didn't even think about it ... I didn't even feel the swelling until Monday, when I came in and I couldn't raise my arm too high." He practiced with the team Thursday, but will probably skip the Rams' final preseason game as a precautionary measure. He could have a tough time staying healthy all season.

In my keeper league I'm looking at either Steven Jackson or Larry Johnson with the first pick. I honestly have no idea what I'm going to do. It feels like a total coin flip to me. Jackson still did pretty well last year once he was healthy, even without Pace, but I just don't like this situation at all.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Plus, Setterstrom and Gorin are both out for the season. Affects the depth if nothing more.

 

[Avery]

I don't know that I'll be able to draft any Rams this year given the debacle that was last year. This year's not shaping up any better...From Rotoworld:

Orlando Pace-T- Rams Aug. 22 - 10:53 am et Orlando Pace revealed Thursday that he reinjured his right shoulder during Saturday night's preseason game."I did it when I was trying to make a tackle (after an interception). I landed on it pretty hard," Pace said. "I didn't even think about it ... I didn't even feel the swelling until Monday, when I came in and I couldn't raise my arm too high." He practiced with the team Thursday, but will probably skip the Rams' final preseason game as a precautionary measure. He could have a tough time staying healthy all season.

In my keeper league I'm looking at either Steven Jackson or Larry Johnson with the first pick. I honestly have no idea what I'm going to do. It feels like a total coin flip to me. Jackson still did pretty well last year once he was healthy, even without Pace, but I just don't like this situation at all.

Even with the questions surrounding the Rams defense this seems like a no-brainer to me.If nothing else, it's a keeper league and Johnson is 29.

 

[AnonymousBob]

I'm trying to move Holt for Steve Smith. The lack of depth of the o-line is making me cautious about all Rams players.

 

[TheFanatic]

I'm trying to move Holt for Steve Smith. The lack of depth of the o-line is making me cautious about all Rams players.

The Rams actually brought in a bunch of depth this offseason. Signed a starter from the Titans. Used a couple picks on linemen. Getting guys back healthy that were injured last year. Despite two guys going down in preseason they are still in good shape. But at this pace, with two games to go, they may be down 2 more before the season starts. If that happens, I will personally find the strength and conditioning coach and introduce him to my 1 iron.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Some more food for thought:

Orlando Pace-T- Rams Aug. 22 - 4:02 pm et Rams LT Orlando Pace is practicing despite saying he re-injured his surgically repaired right shoulder in St. Louis' second exhibition game.Pace is sore after landing on the shoulder following a tackle attempt. He has no structural damage and the injury isn't related to his labrum or rotator cuff. The seven-time Pro Bowler should be ready for Week 1.Source: Associated Press