The Duff Man
Footballguy
Bills should cut him.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
P Matt Araiza, KC (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter rockaction
- Start date
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
And explain exactly what their investigation consisted of and why it didn’t lead to cutting him sooner.
Capella
Footballguy
They’ll cut him in the next few days. They’ll say some nonsense like “new developments were presented to us that we were unaware of yada yada”. The PR is almost certainly being workshopped now.
They won’t cut him because it is the obvious right thing to do though. They’ll cut him because he’s a punter and he is expendable. If he were a star QB he’d probably get 240 million.
They won’t cut him because it is the obvious right thing to do though. They’ll cut him because he’s a punter and he is expendable. If he were a star QB he’d probably get 240 million.
Chaka
Footballguy
My lizard brain agrees but the right thing to do is allow due process to run it's course.
rockaction
Footballguy
Well this thread sucks now. This was fun, now the allegations against him are criminal and depraved. I'm sorry I started this thread.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
It’s not your fault. It’s not your fault.
Zow
Footballguy
It's also total hyperbole. As one of those guys, rarely do I ever even know with any sort of certainty whether the allegations are true. This holds true even after lengthy jury trials and hundreds of hours working the case(s).
Just ignore the quote.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
Yeah, I tend to agree here, too. There are a few red flags for me on this:
1. While delayed reporting isn't uncommon or necessarily indicative of veracity in sex assault cases, I'm wondering when and in what manner the initial outcry took place. I say this because, generally, law enforcement acts first and most civil suits are subsequent (most states have statues that toll the statute of limitations for civil suits so there's no harm in waiting).
2. Both lawyers are being pretty brazen in the media. That isn't common.
3. "Investigation ongoing" can mean many things. It doesn't for sure mean that law enforcement is actively investigating.
4. There doesn't appear to be social media evidence - at least being referenced in the media. Consider the Duke lacrosse (and I can vouch the same often plays out in similar cases I've worked), there's almost always some sort of significantly inculpatory or exculpatory evidence. Be those IG posts, snapchat information (tough to obtain, but possible), FB live, or whatever usually metadata from electronics of the teens involved can tell quite the story. I'd be curious to see this sort of evidence come out. Edit: apparently there's a phone call that may be inculplatory?
Bills are in a tough spot. Assuming they don't know much more than we do, it's really too early to conclude that it's more likely than not that he committed this act. Of course, if it looks bad later and they didn't cut him, they have egg on their face.
Personally, I'd like to see him not get cut just yet, but I wouldn't blame the Bills if they did. I tend to agree with @Capella where it's much easier to cut him because he's just a punter (even if he is a god at it) and not a QB.
Last edited:
Zow
Footballguy
Respectfully, we don't know that yet. Obviously, if true, that's probably a fair descriptor. But let it play out a bit and see what law enforcement does.
rockaction
Footballguy
Gonna have to go against adding levity to the mix here.
Zow
Footballguy
Yeah, if true, that's bad and would sway my opinion to just cutting him.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Nah, that part is firmly in "who cares?" territory. In most (?) states, this would be legal. I don't think it's morally relevant.
rockaction
Footballguy
It's likely statutory rape in California, though, where the incident occurred. That's not good.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Correct. And, I’m sure he would say he didn’t know she was intoxicated, but that seems doubtful.
The fact that she went to the police right away, had a rape kit done, the police had her make the pretext phone calls where he admitted to having sex with her and told her to get checked for STDs, it all adds up to looking pretty bad absent anything else in his favor.
We also know that the campus police were just told in late June that if they investigated it would not longer interfere in the SD police investigation. If investigations have been taking that long, that would also potentially explain why a civil suit wasn’t filed sooner.
The whole thing just sucks as a Bills fan (small potatoes obviously in the big picture)
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Her lawyer sure is muddying the waters too though. He is super eager to get this in front of media. The publishing of the text between him and Araiza’s lawyer is weird and directly contradicts the claim he was making when making it public (he said that they never asked for money and yet it’s perfectly clear from the text convo that they did in fact ask for a settlement and then later Araiza’s lawyer reached out to possibly settle and was rebuffed).
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Yeah, but you notice they didn't bother to bring charges even though nobody disputes that sex took place between these two. Prosecutors don't typically charge statutory rape when we're talking about this type of age difference. This isn't the kind of situation that statutory rape laws are designed to prevent. And even if it was, it would be similar -- to me anyway -- to a DUI or something like that. Not the kind of thing you fire somebody over.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Oh man, these lawyers really are not professional at all and it’s clear that they have a long history of bad blood already. Her lawyer is kind of melting down on Twitter.
rockaction
Footballguy
That has surprised me already. You're right -- this isn't the type of thing statutory rape was meant to prevent, and I don't see the immorality in it either, but usually it's a strict liability crime and is prosecuted that way.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
On the other hand, I would be cautious about inferring too much based on the actions of the plaintiff's lawyer. A 17 year old girl (and her parents) may not have been well-positioned to evaluate the quality of their counsel. Of course, I'll defer to @Zow on that one.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Right. He broke at least one California law and is part of an investigation into a possibly brutal crime. He is a rookie punter for a team that doesn't punt very often. I would not be alienating any of my fanbase for this guy.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Absolutely. And if the accusations are true and nobody is doing anything about it, it would be understandable why he would be so angry (understandable but still totally unprofessional).
From his tweet accusing the SDPD of sloppy police work, that may be a cue as to what the prosecutor decided. Not that they’re always right either.
I did read one comment by someone saying that her friends have told people that the girl was telling people at the party that she was 18. I don’t know if that has any truth or not. It wouldn’t be any type of defense against forcibly having sex with her, but it would seem to be a reasonably defense against the statutory rape piece.
Like I said before, what a mess. Talk about one thing this team absolutely did not need.
rockaction
Footballguy
No. Statutory rape is strict liability. The onus is on the guy over eighteen to make sure she is, too.
rockaction
Footballguy
I really should say even though I'm bringing this up and am harsh about it, I'm only doing so because it's the law. Of course, there is prosecutorial discretion, but if they wanted to, he'd likely be guilty.
Zow
Footballguy
For sure.
My gentle suggestion is just to entirely ignore the public statements from both counsels and not infer anything about the case from them as to the actual merits.
Zow
Footballguy
This is generally correct. Some states, including mine, may have a slight opening for a defense. But, not knowing CA law specifically, I would tend to assume the same as you that even though she was telling everybody that she's 18 it may be a strict liability offense and his reasonable belief at the time may not factor in.
Last edited:
rockaction
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
In some, yes. I wouldn't go as far as to say most though.
That said, for these situations prosecutors usually (and I think with good reason) employ discretion. If the victim lied about her age, and there isn't much of an age difference,* a prosecutor may decline to charge statutory rape.**
*Some states, including mine, have a "Romeo and Juliet provision" where if there's less than a certain age gap (e.g. two years) and/or the parties were in high school, etc. then it's not statutory rape.
**In my experience defending those charges in these situations, the state will usually work with me and my client, even if they initially charge statutory rape, in a way to resolve the manner that doesn't completely ruin the defendant's life (i.e. with sex offender registration and/or a permanent felony). We'll get creative and plead to a regular assault of some sort and be very careful with the factual basis.
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
Yeah her attorney looks like a clown on social media, trying to stir up attention. Not a good look harassing and DMing Arazia and his tone in conversation shows he's unprofessional and has like 1,000 followers likely the cheapest attorney you can find. I'm in the minority with innocent until proven guilty. The Bills local fans are all charity social hero's that need the we are good people attention, even if they knew it not to be true they want him out regardless just for the bad publicity on BillsMafia. I have a feeling if this happened in like Philly that it would be played out and not everyone jumping to conclusions until all the facts come out and the final investigation is complete. I don't like kids potentially losing a job because social media has banned together to say so.
Obviously if he's found guilty then yeah cut him but the Bills don't need to cut him yet, even if he's only a punter. It doesn't help they have a female owner, they may just cut him to not have to deal with the backlash.
Zow
Footballguy
What you're saying is consistent with what we are all probably taught in law school and it's a good default understanding to have. There are just some slight nuances in other states.
FWIW, if somebody asked my privately for legal advice on this I'd give them an answer similar to yours that he or she should just assume there's no defense even if the victim shows one a fake ID and her grandmother is there to vouch for her.
Zow
Footballguy
Eesh.
Not saying he's harming his client, but, um, I wouldn't be doing any of that.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Yeah, it all seems really bizarre. Reaching out directly to an individual via text and telling them they should have their lawyer contact him before Monday before the courts open seems incredibly inappropriate and bizarre. That actually seems pretty close to a shakedown attempt.
Reaching out to the accused’s employer directly seems wildly inappropriate and bizarre.
The text exchanges between lawyers is just awful on both sides.
Tweeting out photos of her diary entries and saying the cops didn’t do their job because they didn’t ask for her diary (that she started the day it happened) seems incredibly weird.
If this awful thing really did happen to this girl, she should get another lawyer ASAP IMO.
Zow
Footballguy
His point about the punter's criminal defense lawyer finding a civil defense lawyer isn't a bad one. I've tried to wear both hats in a few higher profile cases and while I believe I did/could do so competently, I always advised the client to hire a second lawyer.
But, the choice of counsels is not really the Plaintiff's attorney's problem. And, in the context of the texts, it just seems like a childish taunt.
In California, a reasonable, good-faith belief that the minor was 18 or over is a defense to a charge of statutory rape.
Yes she definitely needs a new lawyer. Who tweets out very important evidence like that?
The journal does seem obviously incriminating. Can forensics test how old the ink is in that? (There's lots of people on twitter who are suggesting it was written recently). Maybe they can't tell exactly how old it was, but IF they could, seems like a slam dunk either way. If it was written recently, throw the whole thing away. If it was written after that party, throw the guy in jail.
Zow
Footballguy
I don't know if forensics can test that. I assume so but it's an issue I haven't had to explore. I have utilized handwriting experts, though.
I'd hesitate at doing either of the bold, though.
If she wrote the letter today, pretending that she wrote it years ago, wouldn't that be pretty good evidence towards her lying?
And if she wrote that letter the next day, with how awful that all sounds, that's pretty good evidence that she's telling the truth and I feel like his punishment should be severe.
Zow
Footballguy
Yes, of course, both would have a tendency to show those potential truths.
But it doesn't automatically mean it didn't happen or it did.
The Duff Man
Footballguy
Based on the limited info, I hope the Bills investigation showed strong proof that he wasn’t involved with whatever happened in the house.
If his story ends with what happened in the backyard it is a morally defensible situation to me. Anything beyond that is bad.
If his story ends with what happened in the backyard it is a morally defensible situation to me. Anything beyond that is bad.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Same.
Based on the complaint, it sounds like there is at least one friend and possibly two who can strongly corroborate or undermine the plaintiff's version of events. I very much want to hear from those people. Based on the limited information at our disposal, I'm not comfortable making any decisions about Araiza, but that's easy to say because I know there are witnesses just sitting there. If they confirm that the plaintiff was in a room for 90 minutes with a bunch of guys who prevented her friends from coming to check in on her, and they confirm that she said she was raped right then and there, that swings me to "cut him and move on."
(I guess I can imagine a hypothetical scenario where Araiza has consensual sex with the girl, who then gets gang-raped totally by coincidence after Araiza escorts her to a room, but that story would make Matt Araiza the unluckiest guy on the planet and I just don't find that very plausible.)
Edit: Also, sexual predators who do things like drugging girls to facilitate gang-raping them generally don't just do this as a one-time thing. It would be highly informative if other accusers come forward, and also mildly informative if no additional accusers come forward.
Last edited:
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Usually you wait until the player gets a big contract extension and then you come forward, right now this guy has very little to come sue for vs in a few years.
Sad story and you do wonder what the outcome would be if this were a Top 10 pick at QB
Sad story and you do wonder what the outcome would be if this were a Top 10 pick at QB
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
Dalvin Cook's civil trial isn't even happening till 2023 and he's still playing. The pitch-forks from people trying to get him to be cut right away just annoys me. I'm not for ruining someone's career if they are innocent. Let it play out. Let the police and DA do there jobs.
Pretty sure Von Miller had a few civil situations against him in 2021 and 2022, McCoy was in court for allegedly beating his gf with pictures in 2018 and the Bills let that situation play out. They may not be able to withstand the twitter-warriors all banning together though.
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
Go check this girl's attorney's twitter.. Look at who he follows. Hundreds of Porn accounts. Such a sleeze-bag @dangilleon
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Anyone can accuse anyone of anything. Due process will play out. I do hate players getting cut over accusations. What if you personally get accused of something you didn't do. And next day your company terminates you. And two years later they find you innocent. Man you'd feel screwed over. Lost $s. Lost reputation. Probably a dead end career. What's so hard about letting the legal system play out. NFL and companies should not play judge unless there is admission or video evidence of a crime (see Ray Rice). The punter admitted having sex with her. That's not gonna be cause for a trial if she's 17 even in CA. The other stuff was committed by others from what I see. I dunno. It needs to play out before people scream for this guys head, cause we know plenty of accusers have lied.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Does he work at a Cinnabon in Nebraska?
