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I have never thought it was wise to assume that Williams would leave via free agency next year. The Panthers have their running game exactly how they want it, why would they not attempt to keep it intact?
Williams is signed for this season. When next season begins, he will be 28 and it doesn't seem smart to spend money in a salary cap era for a RB when they could use it on a weak area of the team. It really depends on what kind of cap there will be and the amount of the contract. Unless the contract is very reasonable, it doesn't make sense to me.
It may not make sense to you, but to the simplistic Panthers it makes complete sense. They don't look at their running game as an either/or proposition. They want to have two great running backs, and they do now. You have to also remember that Stewart hasn't been the most durable - injured every year at Oregon, came into the league with turf toe surgery, now achilles surgery. They won't have Delhomme's big price tag on the books next year. No first round pick signing bonus this year. They'll have the money to do it, elite RB contracts are actually reasonable compared to what we have seen for Peppers, Dunta Robinson, Antrel Rolle this offseason. I bet they can lock up DeAngelo for the rest of his career for 20-25 mil guaranteed. Burleson got 11 mil. It's not crazy to spend that to have dominant running game when your whole team blueprint is built around that.
Williams is their best player at the position that the Carolina offense is built around. He also has relatively low mileage since he didn't have a lot of carries early in his career. Panthers would be foolish to let him get away, regardless of how high the fantasy community as Jonathan Stewart ranked in dynasty rankings.
Your logic would seem to dictate keeping Williams and selling Stewart, the opposite of what you have apparently done.
Maybe.....if I weren't able to get maximum value for Deangelo that may be true.....but I did.And the reasoning behind keeping Stewart is that if news came out such as this, I find his trade value as much less volatile than Deangelo's....whether it should be or not.Your logic would seem to dictate keeping Williams and selling Stewart, the opposite of what you have apparently done.
Agreed, and that has been a source of frustration for Panthers fans. It's John Fox who makes these decisions, and D-Will should have had his shot earlier. I like the fact we're re-signing him. Our core players are our main priority now.
DeAngelo had every chance to overtake Foster earlier, but he simply wasn't ready. He was poor in pass protection and danced nearly twice as bad as we are used to with Reggie Bush.
Not sure how the play would be affected by the uncapped year, but in a normal year (or if I were playing Panthers GM on sega) I'd trade d williams to the raiders for a few high picks, and spend one of those on young backup for J stewart (in the same mold of what he was to deangelo). Then you pick up a few DT's or CB's to plug the aging defense, you don't overpay for D williams (right before he nears the aging RB precipice). Stewart is ready, and it would allow you to have maybe a CJ Spiller in the wings, plus a few holed get plugged on defense, and you free up FA money to get a decent vetran QB to back up Matt Moore, or maybe even a stud/quality OL depth.
Ding, ding, ding. I love the Stewart manlove on the board (good player...when he plays), but if your O is based on a running game, you cannot take the chance on a guy who may not be there when you need him. ALL teams are going to the multiple RB model (some heavier than others, but still evident) and this is a team giving the "keys to the car" to Matt freakin' Moore...they need two capable RBs, because if one falters (or gets injured...which one is literally a "pro" at), they up a creek w/o said paddle.
How many games has he missed to this point?Im sure every team would love to have two great RB's. Problem is, when you do, you better get use to guys like Moore as your QB, because that will be all you can afford.
Where are all of these examples of RB's that get massive contracts in free agency from other teams?
I don't think Williams is going to get big money on par with quarterbacks, defensive ends, or even WR's. Teams simply don't break the bank for RB's. It won't be hard for Carolina to re-sign Williams.
Put some numbers to your answer so I can get an idea of what you (and others) consider to be a reasonable contract that Williams would sign and Carolina would pay.Where are all of these examples of RB's that get massive contracts in free agency from other teams?I don't think Williams is going to get big money on par with quarterbacks, defensive ends, or even WR's. Teams simply don't break the bank for RB's. It won't be hard for Carolina to re-sign Williams.
Stewart hasn't missed any games.
I already did - 20-25 mil guaranteed, lets say 5 years 35 mil. I think that's the high end of what he can get. last year, MJD got a 5 year, 31 mil extension, with 17.5 guaranteed. In 08, Turner got 15 mil guaranteed in a 6 year, 34.5 million dollar deal. SJax got 20.5 mil guaranteed in a 6 year, 44 mil deal. Gore signed a 4 year, 28 mil extension in 07, but only 6.5 was guaranteed, along with a 4.2 mil option bonus in the next year. McGahee got 26 mil over 5 years and 7.5 mil guaranteed, and lots of bonuses in the first few years.Elite RBs aren't expensive compared to other positions, Cassius nailed it. Think about it. M-freakin-JD only got 6.5 mil more in guaranteed money last year than Burleson got this year, and he's got his whole prime ahead of him and a short injury history compared to Burleson.I'll also reiterate two more important points in favor of DeAngelo being re-signed - 1) Jake Delhomme's money is totally off the books now b/c of the uncapped year. 2) No first-round signing bonus this year because they traded the pick for Everette Brown. No first-round signing bonus last year because they traded the pick for Jeff Otah. They have money to spend.Put some numbers to your answer so I can get an idea of what you (and others) consider to be a reasonable contract that Williams would sign and Carolina would pay.Where are all of these examples of RB's that get massive contracts in free agency from other teams?I don't think Williams is going to get big money on par with quarterbacks, defensive ends, or even WR's. Teams simply don't break the bank for RB's. It won't be hard for Carolina to re-sign Williams.
There's got to be the fear of the unknown for Stewart and his wonky achilles for Carolina. Not only do they want to keep their bread and butter intact with Deangelo and Stewart, they may be nervous about Stewart's future. How could they not be?Affording both this year will be tough. Deangelo dropped a bit in the rankings but still will require a 1st/2nd round pick. Stewart will cost what?.......a 3rd? 4th? 5th?
are you talking a rookie draft pick for stewart? if you find anyone willing to part with him for a 3rd,4th,5th you've got a pretty dumb owner.i see still stewart as a solid #2 rb. at worst. he still scored 10 tds last season and went over a 1000 yards again. even if they lock up dwill for a few more years, they can trade him more easily and if anything that will help out stewarts career long term rather then getting over used his first couple of seasons. deangelo is still going to be 27 before the start of the season. so he likely has 2 more good years left in him if he doesn't break down beforehand. that was always the big question with him durability with his size.
Using 5 years, 30-35 mils as a reasonable starting spot...the amount to the RB position is very reasonable. However, with a cap and several weaknesses such as QB, WR2, WR3, the secondary (especially if Marshall leaves (he was tendered a 2nd I believe) plus a very weak defensive line, would it be wise to sign Williams and let him and Stewart split 400-450 carries, or let Williams go, draft a RB to get 100 carries to Stewart's 300 and use that 6-7 million per year to shore up one of their weaknesses? That is my point. I don't think they are strong enough at a lot of positions to spend this much money on a RB when the options aren't bad. If they had a better overall team with few weaknesses, I would agree that they would be smart to sign him, but with their current team, I'm not so sure it is wise.I already did - 20-25 mil guaranteed, lets say 5 years 35 mil. I think that's the high end of what he can get. last year, MJD got a 5 year, 31 mil extension, with 17.5 guaranteed. In 08, Turner got 15 mil guaranteed in a 6 year, 34.5 million dollar deal. SJax got 20.5 mil guaranteed in a 6 year, 44 mil deal. Gore signed a 4 year, 28 mil extension in 07, but only 6.5 was guaranteed, along with a 4.2 mil option bonus in the next year. McGahee got 26 mil over 5 years and 7.5 mil guaranteed, and lots of bonuses in the first few years.Elite RBs aren't expensive compared to other positions, Cassius nailed it. Think about it. M-freakin-JD only got 6.5 mil more in guaranteed money last year than Burleson got this year, and he's got his whole prime ahead of him and a short injury history compared to Burleson.I'll also reiterate two more important points in favor of DeAngelo being re-signed - 1) Jake Delhomme's money is totally off the books now b/c of the uncapped year. 2) No first-round signing bonus this year because they traded the pick for Everette Brown. No first-round signing bonus last year because they traded the pick for Jeff Otah. They have money to spend.Put some numbers to your answer so I can get an idea of what you (and others) consider to be a reasonable contract that Williams would sign and Carolina would pay.Where are all of these examples of RB's that get massive contracts in free agency from other teams?I don't think Williams is going to get big money on par with quarterbacks, defensive ends, or even WR's. Teams simply don't break the bank for RB's. It won't be hard for Carolina to re-sign Williams.
No, he hasn't missed any games, but he has a fairly long injury history, dating back to Oregon. He has had multiple surgeries (before his rookie year, between year 1 and 2 I believe, and now again after his 2nd year). He hasn't been able to participate in many of the off-season/mini-camp work during his 2 year career, and he has never gotten a big workload.So, while Stewart hasn't missed any games, there are very good reasons for Carolina to keep DWill, since they can't be confident in Stewart's ability to carry a larger load and stay healthy.
I know, i dont think Sweet Love knew that, based on his "when he plays". Im not sure why poeple post about things they know nothing about.
Theres a reason RB's dont get big salaries. There is also a reason you usually dont see two top 10 RB's on one team. Sure, the Panthers may resign Williams, but i think it only happens if he gives them a big home town discount. Which i doubt will happen considering this is the contract he will be retiring off of. Also, just because they can afford to do it now doesnt mean they will be able to afford it down the road. Which is why i think they will not resign him before the 2010 season. Maybe if they think they are a 2nd RB away from a SB run in 2011 he will resign, but other than that, i think he will be playing for another team after next season.Another thing i think people are overlooking is why would Williams want to resign with the Panthers? Take less money to split carries on a team that wont be contending for a SB any time soon.I already did - 20-25 mil guaranteed, lets say 5 years 35 mil. I think that's the high end of what he can get. last year, MJD got a 5 year, 31 mil extension, with 17.5 guaranteed. In 08, Turner got 15 mil guaranteed in a 6 year, 34.5 million dollar deal. SJax got 20.5 mil guaranteed in a 6 year, 44 mil deal. Gore signed a 4 year, 28 mil extension in 07, but only 6.5 was guaranteed, along with a 4.2 mil option bonus in the next year. McGahee got 26 mil over 5 years and 7.5 mil guaranteed, and lots of bonuses in the first few years.Elite RBs aren't expensive compared to other positions, Cassius nailed it. Think about it. M-freakin-JD only got 6.5 mil more in guaranteed money last year than Burleson got this year, and he's got his whole prime ahead of him and a short injury history compared to Burleson.I'll also reiterate two more important points in favor of DeAngelo being re-signed - 1) Jake Delhomme's money is totally off the books now b/c of the uncapped year. 2) No first-round signing bonus this year because they traded the pick for Everette Brown. No first-round signing bonus last year because they traded the pick for Jeff Otah. They have money to spend.Put some numbers to your answer so I can get an idea of what you (and others) consider to be a reasonable contract that Williams would sign and Carolina would pay.Where are all of these examples of RB's that get massive contracts in free agency from other teams?I don't think Williams is going to get big money on par with quarterbacks, defensive ends, or even WR's. Teams simply don't break the bank for RB's. It won't be hard for Carolina to re-sign Williams.
There isn't going to be a number of huge offers available to him because he's a RB. Which is what usually happens in these situations.Serious question -> how often do major centerpieces of an offense, with no locker room baggage or signs of decline, end up walking away in free agency?Of those occassions, how many of them are RB's?It almost never happens. FA RB's and the original team end up needing each other, and a deal gets done.
May not be common, but it happens. Most RB's don't have their original contract expire like his will. Unless I'm mistaken, most star RB's have their contracts extended before they are done because teams want to lock them up. But, I think because of Stewart, that hasn't happened with DeAngelo. Thus, he may walk like Turner did. Can you name that last top tier RB whose contract has expired? If so, what happened to him? I would think that there's going to be plenty of teams eyeing this situation and planning on going after him vs. drafting a RB if they have a need.
You might want to read the OP. Or at least save this "argument" until his contract actually expires.Also - Turner, as talented as he is and as highly regarded as he was at the time, is not a good comparison to DeAngello as he was a backup when he hit free agency. Not really a good example of a centerpiece of an offense walking away in free agency. Feel free to keep looking though, I'm genuinely curious as to how many times it's happened.
I read the OP. Again, he's not obligated to accept the extension. Is that better?I know Turner is a perfect compare, but look how much money a "backup" got when available. RB's of top quality don't often hit the FA market. It's very possible that DeAngelo decides to not agree to an extension and test the market next year. I'm quite sure if Turner could land the contract he did without ever proving himself that DeAngelo could do the same. Especially if he could potentially go to a team where he isn't sharing carries or a team that is a contender.
You just finished saying that most big-time RB's extend their contract, and now you're talking up how DeAngello won't extend because of all the big money in the free agency market for RB's.
Agreed on these two, though I'm not sure why they'd extend him if they thought Stewart would take over so soon. But there's certainly the possibility. If Williams were to get a 5 year deal I think he'd pretty easily play out 3 of them since he'd be sharing work, as he did the first couple years of his career.
Actually no, it was RB's who are the centerpieces of an offense with no locker room baggage and signs of decline. Dunn may fit, I don't remember that one, but the other two do not. If the only example here is Dunn then that pretty much shows how rare it is.
Not to mention Peppers' $17 million+ from last year.
How many 27 year old RB's have resigned with their original teams two years after that team drafted a RB in the first round?
Delhomme's money may be off the books for cap purposes, but Carolina still had to pay him all that guaranteed money. Consequently, I'm not sure it's safe to assume that your points mean they are prepared to lavish money on Williams.I already did - 20-25 mil guaranteed, lets say 5 years 35 mil. I think that's the high end of what he can get. last year, MJD got a 5 year, 31 mil extension, with 17.5 guaranteed. In 08, Turner got 15 mil guaranteed in a 6 year, 34.5 million dollar deal. SJax got 20.5 mil guaranteed in a 6 year, 44 mil deal. Gore signed a 4 year, 28 mil extension in 07, but only 6.5 was guaranteed, along with a 4.2 mil option bonus in the next year. McGahee got 26 mil over 5 years and 7.5 mil guaranteed, and lots of bonuses in the first few years.Elite RBs aren't expensive compared to other positions, Cassius nailed it. Think about it. M-freakin-JD only got 6.5 mil more in guaranteed money last year than Burleson got this year, and he's got his whole prime ahead of him and a short injury history compared to Burleson.I'll also reiterate two more important points in favor of DeAngelo being re-signed - 1) Jake Delhomme's money is totally off the books now b/c of the uncapped year. 2) No first-round signing bonus this year because they traded the pick for Everette Brown. No first-round signing bonus last year because they traded the pick for Jeff Otah. They have money to spend.Put some numbers to your answer so I can get an idea of what you (and others) consider to be a reasonable contract that Williams would sign and Carolina would pay.Where are all of these examples of RB's that get massive contracts in free agency from other teams?I don't think Williams is going to get big money on par with quarterbacks, defensive ends, or even WR's. Teams simply don't break the bank for RB's. It won't be hard for Carolina to re-sign Williams.
Using 5 years, 30-35 mils as a reasonable starting spot...the amount to the RB position is very reasonable. However, with a cap and several weaknesses such as QB, WR2, WR3, the secondary (especially if Marshall leaves (he was tendered a 2nd I believe) plus a very weak defensive line, would it be wise to sign Williams and let him and Stewart split 400-450 carries, or let Williams go, draft a RB to get 100 carries to Stewart's 300 and use that 6-7 million per year to shore up one of their weaknesses? That is my point. I don't think they are strong enough at a lot of positions to spend this much money on a RB when the options aren't bad. If they had a better overall team with few weaknesses, I would agree that they would be smart to sign him, but with their current team, I'm not so sure it is wise.I already did - 20-25 mil guaranteed, lets say 5 years 35 mil. I think that's the high end of what he can get. last year, MJD got a 5 year, 31 mil extension, with 17.5 guaranteed. In 08, Turner got 15 mil guaranteed in a 6 year, 34.5 million dollar deal. SJax got 20.5 mil guaranteed in a 6 year, 44 mil deal. Gore signed a 4 year, 28 mil extension in 07, but only 6.5 was guaranteed, along with a 4.2 mil option bonus in the next year. McGahee got 26 mil over 5 years and 7.5 mil guaranteed, and lots of bonuses in the first few years.Elite RBs aren't expensive compared to other positions, Cassius nailed it. Think about it. M-freakin-JD only got 6.5 mil more in guaranteed money last year than Burleson got this year, and he's got his whole prime ahead of him and a short injury history compared to Burleson.I'll also reiterate two more important points in favor of DeAngelo being re-signed - 1) Jake Delhomme's money is totally off the books now b/c of the uncapped year. 2) No first-round signing bonus this year because they traded the pick for Everette Brown. No first-round signing bonus last year because they traded the pick for Jeff Otah. They have money to spend.Put some numbers to your answer so I can get an idea of what you (and others) consider to be a reasonable contract that Williams would sign and Carolina would pay.Where are all of these examples of RB's that get massive contracts in free agency from other teams?I don't think Williams is going to get big money on par with quarterbacks, defensive ends, or even WR's. Teams simply don't break the bank for RB's. It won't be hard for Carolina to re-sign Williams.
