Panthers restructure DeShaun Foster's contract. (1 Viewer)

[Garts]

Is this the year Eric Shelton get's the goalline carries?

 

[Mister CIA]

fox is notorious for being loyal to vets, to a fault (see stephen davis getting bulk carries after seemingly everybody else in the world could see he had hit the wall)

If I'm Fox, my loyalty for DeShaun wanes a bit if I burn a #1 pick on DeAngelo.

 

[David Yudkin]

w/ a restructured deal; it will make it easier for the Panthers to trade him away on draft day. W/ teams like Tenn and GB still looking for Backs; it might happen.

Completely depends on how it was restructured...Was this year's salary dropped by giving him the difference up front? Was his contract extended? Without knowing the parameters, this could make it either easier or harder to cut him. I doubt they cut him this year though.

His 2007 base pay dropped from $4.25 million to $750,000, saving $1.75 million in cap space. He didn't take a paycut, though, just converted $3.5 million into a signing bonus.

correct me if i am wrong, but this restructuring does not tell the story at all for foster in 2008. in 2006, people were speculating that foster could be cut this year because his salary was a rediculous 5 million, but they did not owe him any guarenteed money because they gave it all to him in bonus money in 2006. well, we have the same situation here. they are not ready to hand the ball over to williams just yet, so to save cap room, they give him his money in bonus to lower his salary. next year though, they owe him nothing and could cut him with no cap hit or restructure and keep him or trade him. i think the panthers want williams to be the featured back. foster is in a way like jones was in chicago. they had benson and wanted him to be the future, but benson did not show much his rookie year so they kept jones another year to make sure that benson was indeed the man.

If the Panthers cut Foster next year, they would be on the hook for the prorated share of his signing bonuses. He is entering the second year of a 3-year deal that had a $4.5 million signing bonus. After this year, by my math, he would have $1.5 million left as a cap charge of that $4.5 million plus $1.75 million from the $3.5 million conversion that he just agreed to. That would mean the Panthers would have to take on $3.25 million in dead money if they released Foster prior to next year. And they would have to take it all at once because the contract only had one year remaining--you can only split the hit over two years if the contract runs longer than one year.

 

[Dolfan34]

w/ a restructured deal; it will make it easier for the Panthers to trade him away on draft day. W/ teams like Tenn and GB still looking for Backs; it might happen.

Completely depends on how it was restructured...Was this year's salary dropped by giving him the difference up front? Was his contract extended? Without knowing the parameters, this could make it either easier or harder to cut him. I doubt they cut him this year though.

His 2007 base pay dropped from $4.25 million to $750,000, saving $1.75 million in cap space. He didn't take a paycut, though, just converted $3.5 million into a signing bonus.

correct me if i am wrong, but this restructuring does not tell the story at all for foster in 2008. in 2006, people were speculating that foster could be cut this year because his salary was a rediculous 5 million, but they did not owe him any guarenteed money because they gave it all to him in bonus money in 2006. well, we have the same situation here. they are not ready to hand the ball over to williams just yet, so to save cap room, they give him his money in bonus to lower his salary. next year though, they owe him nothing and could cut him with no cap hit or restructure and keep him or trade him. i think the panthers want williams to be the featured back. foster is in a way like jones was in chicago. they had benson and wanted him to be the future, but benson did not show much his rookie year so they kept jones another year to make sure that benson was indeed the man.

If the Panthers cut Foster next year, they would be on the hook for the prorated share of his signing bonuses. He is entering the second year of a 3-year deal that had a $4.5 million signing bonus. After this year, by my math, he would have $1.5 million left as a cap charge of that $4.5 million plus $1.75 million from the $3.5 million conversion that he just agreed to. That would mean the Panthers would have to take on $3.25 million in dead money if they released Foster prior to next year. And they would have to take it all at once because the contract only had one year remaining--you can only split the hit over two years if the contract runs longer than one year.

so they can't give him the entire bonus all at once? do they have to pro-rate it? if they can give it to him all at once, how do you know that this is not what they did? i remember reading basically the same thing last year. panthers resigned foster for 3 years, but could cut him in 2007 without oweing him anything because his bonus was not pro-rated over the remainder of the contract.

 

[Biabreakable]

Not sure on the whole details of how these contract restructures work and perhaps that was allready made clear before but I missed it..

But couldn't they have moved the signing bonus into this years salary cap (considering the big boost to the cap this season) and be paying the bonus off now?

 

[David Yudkin]

w/ a restructured deal; it will make it easier for the Panthers to trade him away on draft day. W/ teams like Tenn and GB still looking for Backs; it might happen.

Completely depends on how it was restructured...Was this year's salary dropped by giving him the difference up front? Was his contract extended? Without knowing the parameters, this could make it either easier or harder to cut him. I doubt they cut him this year though.

His 2007 base pay dropped from $4.25 million to $750,000, saving $1.75 million in cap space. He didn't take a paycut, though, just converted $3.5 million into a signing bonus.

correct me if i am wrong, but this restructuring does not tell the story at all for foster in 2008. in 2006, people were speculating that foster could be cut this year because his salary was a rediculous 5 million, but they did not owe him any guarenteed money because they gave it all to him in bonus money in 2006. well, we have the same situation here. they are not ready to hand the ball over to williams just yet, so to save cap room, they give him his money in bonus to lower his salary. next year though, they owe him nothing and could cut him with no cap hit or restructure and keep him or trade him. i think the panthers want williams to be the featured back. foster is in a way like jones was in chicago. they had benson and wanted him to be the future, but benson did not show much his rookie year so they kept jones another year to make sure that benson was indeed the man.

If the Panthers cut Foster next year, they would be on the hook for the prorated share of his signing bonuses. He is entering the second year of a 3-year deal that had a $4.5 million signing bonus. After this year, by my math, he would have $1.5 million left as a cap charge of that $4.5 million plus $1.75 million from the $3.5 million conversion that he just agreed to. That would mean the Panthers would have to take on $3.25 million in dead money if they released Foster prior to next year. And they would have to take it all at once because the contract only had one year remaining--you can only split the hit over two years if the contract runs longer than one year.

so they can't give him the entire bonus all at once? do they have to pro-rate it? if they can give it to him all at once, how do you know that this is not what they did? i remember reading basically the same thing last year. panthers resigned foster for 3 years, but could cut him in 2007 without owing him anything because his bonus was not pro-rated over the remainder of the contract.

They could have taken the cap hit as a one time charge, but it would have had to be classified as a roster bonus booked under last year's salary cap. If the Panthers had the cap room, they could have even done it AFTER the 2006 season but before March 1st (they could have converted the signing bonus to a roster bonus). I don't know if they did that or not, but seeing how all I can find lists it as a $4.5 million signing bonus (and today is also listed as a signing bonus) I'm guessing that it really is booked as a signing bonus. The Panthers won't have to pay Foster any more money, but they still will have to account for the cap hit next year whether they keep him, trade him, or release him.Whether they prorated or did not prorate the cap hit would have no impact on what they have to pay him in the future. Foster would get to keep the money they already paid him (the $4.5 million and $3.5 signing bonuses) but they would not owe him anymore money "real cash" either way (unless they roster him next year and then they would have to pay him his salary too).

 

[David Yudkin]

Not sure on the whole details of how these contract restructures work and perhaps that was allready made clear before but I missed it..But couldn't they have moved the signing bonus into this years salary cap (considering the big boost to the cap this season) and be paying the bonus off now?

They didn't covert any signing bonus money in an effort to absorb the cap hit year. They converted salary due Foster for this year into a signing bonus to minimize the cap hit for this year and offloaded the rest ($1.75 million) to next year. They definitely DID NOT take more of a cap hit for this season by doing what they did.

 

[Bob Magaw]

fox is notorious for being loyal to vets, to a fault (see stephen davis getting bulk carries after seemingly everybody else in the world could see he had hit the wall)

If I'm Fox, my loyalty for DeShaun wanes a bit if I burn a #1 pick on DeAngelo.

good point, though by that rationale, foster was selected in the same general area... williams was taken around 1.26-1.27 (without looking it up), & i think foster was around second pick in round two of his draft...upthread there was an interesting comparison likening CAR muddle with CHI past few years... one difference... benson, being a top 5 selection, cost CHI LOTS more money, creating greater pressure for him to be the man, sooner than later...

 

[wannabee]

fox is notorious for being loyal to vets, to a fault (see stephen davis getting bulk carries after seemingly everybody else in the world could see he had hit the wall)

If I'm Fox, my loyalty for DeShaun wanes a bit if I burn a #1 pick on DeAngelo.

good point, though by that rationale, foster was selected in the same general area... williams was taken around 1.26-1.27 (without looking it up), & i think foster was around second pick in round two of his draft...upthread there was an interesting comparison likening CAR muddle with CHI past few years... one difference... benson, being a top 5 selection, cost CHI LOTS more money, creating greater pressure for him to be the man, sooner than later...

The biggest difference, imo, between Chicago and Carolina is number of rushes per year for each team. In Fox's five years at the Panther helm, the Panthers have exceeded 488 rushes only once and had 423 in 2006. Chicago, on the other hand, had 503 rushes last year and 488 the year before.

 

[coolnerd]

fox is notorious for being loyal to vets, to a fault (see stephen davis getting bulk carries after seemingly everybody else in the world could see he had hit the wall)

If I'm Fox, my loyalty for DeShaun wanes a bit if I burn a #1 pick on DeAngelo.

good point, though by that rationale, foster was selected in the same general area... williams was taken around 1.26-1.27 (without looking it up), & i think foster was around second pick in round two of his draft...upthread there was an interesting comparison likening CAR muddle with CHI past few years... one difference... benson, being a top 5 selection, cost CHI LOTS more money, creating greater pressure for him to be the man, sooner than later...

The biggest difference, imo, between Chicago and Carolina is number of rushes per year for each team. In Fox's five years at the Panther helm, the Panthers have exceeded 488 rushes only once and had 423 in 2006. Chicago, on the other hand, had 503 rushes last year and 488 the year before.

Two factors, Steve Smith and relative success in the running game.

 

[David Yudkin]

Williams went 27th overall. Foster went 34th. Both were the 3rd RB taken in the draft in their respective years.

 

[wannabee]

fox is notorious for being loyal to vets, to a fault (see stephen davis getting bulk carries after seemingly everybody else in the world could see he had hit the wall)

If I'm Fox, my loyalty for DeShaun wanes a bit if I burn a #1 pick on DeAngelo.

good point, though by that rationale, foster was selected in the same general area... williams was taken around 1.26-1.27 (without looking it up), & i think foster was around second pick in round two of his draft...upthread there was an interesting comparison likening CAR muddle with CHI past few years... one difference... benson, being a top 5 selection, cost CHI LOTS more money, creating greater pressure for him to be the man, sooner than later...

The biggest difference, imo, between Chicago and Carolina is number of rushes per year for each team. In Fox's five years at the Panther helm, the Panthers have exceeded 488 rushes only once and had 423 in 2006. Chicago, on the other hand, had 503 rushes last year and 488 the year before.

Two factors, Steve Smith and success in the running game.

agree, to a point. The Bears winning and playing great defense helps a running game. THe year, 2003, that the Panthers had 521 rushes was one of only two wining season under Fox. Also, Smith had 88 catches, 1100 yds, and 8 TDs. When I looked at the Panther running game, it became obvious that the only two years, of the five Fox has been in Carolina, that the Panthers had a winning record were the only two years they were top half of the league in rush attempts. The question to me is whether the rushing attempts came from the Panthers winning or the winning came from rushing the ball.

 

[wannabee]

Here is a post I had from a couple months ago on the Panthers' running game under Fox:

For the last few years, I have heard many times how the Carolina Panthers are a good rushing team and how it is good to have the Panther RBs on your fantasy team. But, after looking at the numbers of the five years John Fox has been the Panther Head Coach, the statistics disagree with this notion. Here are some observations from these five years:

 The high TD rusher per year had: 7, 8, 6, 12, 3 (or an average of 7 per season)

 The team averaged 10.2 rushing TDs per year

 The RB with the most carries had: 210, 318, 217, 205, 223 (avg. 235 carries/yr)

 The RB with the 2nd most rushes had: 101, 113, 68, 180, 121 (avg. 117 carries/yr)

 The Panthers have ranked in the bottom half of the NFL all 5 years in YPC

 In 4 of the 5 years, the Panthers have been in the bottom half of the NFL in: Rush yards and Rush TDs

 Only one year did the Panthers, as a team, eclipse the 4.00 YPC mark, but still 17th in NFL

The five years Fox has been head coach, the Panthers’ record has been:

2002 7-9

2003 11-5

2004 7-9

2005 11-5

2006 8-8

The only two years the Panthers had a winning record were the only two years that the Panthers: were in the top half of the NFL in rush attempts (and top 10 both years) and were 28th pass attempts both years. Also, in those two years, the Panthers were in the top 10 in the NFL in passing YPA. These were the only two years Stephen Davis was a Panther and was healthy. Is it a coincidence that the only two years the Panthers ran the ball a lot were the two years the Panthers had a winning record?

The Panthers fired offensive coordinator Dan Henning and offensive line coach Mike Maser. Henning was replaced with Jeff Davidson from the Cleveland Browns. Davidson’s specialty is the offensive line and the running game. Many think this change indicates that the Panthers will be more of a run-first team once again. Davidson took over as interim offensive coordinator for the last ten games of the season for the Browns after Maurice Carthon resigned. Before that, he was an assistant coach and the offensive line coach. Davidson was with the Patriots from 1997-2004 as the tight ends coach and assistant offensive line coach. One odd sidenote: the Browns averaged 14.7 points per game under Carthon and 15 points per game under Davidson. The Browns had a total of 1335 total rushing yards with Droughns, and his 758 rushing yards, leading the way.But, Droughns’ yards per attempt rose from 3.2 with Carthon at the helm to 3.58 with Davidson. I know the offensive line gelled some and there are other factors at work as well.

What does this mean for DeAngelo Williams and DeShaun Foster? Will either get enough carries to be a viable RB going forward? I do not know. But, I do know that the carries have to increase to make Williams worth what his fantasy owners paid for him. Also, will the Panthers look for a pounding RB similar to what they had in Stephen Davis?

 

[AB in DC]

Amazing that a mundane accounting maneuver can trigger a 63 64-post thread.

 

[David Yudkin]

Amazing that a mundane accounting maneuver can trigger a 63 64-post thread.

The accounting maneuver was just an excuse for people to butt heads over Foster/Williams again. But at least it's been awhile since the last thread on this topic.And I will again point out that the Panthers the past few years have posted mediocre team rushing stats almost across the board, and IMO that doe snot bode well for the running game again this year no matter who carries the ball.

 

[Bob Magaw]

When I looked at the Panther running game, it became obvious that the only two years, of the five Fox has been in Carolina, that the Panthers had a winning record were the only two years they were top half of the league in rush attempts. The question to me is whether the rushing attempts came from the Panthers winning or the winning came from rushing the ball.

this is a good question...when a team is behind, there is a seemingly necessary corellation where it becomes tougher to run a lot... so winning or losing could have an impact that would flow in the direction of causing more or less runs (a generalization, but it doesn't seem too controversial)...the converse could also be true... when stephen davis was in his prime, he was a nasty combo of speed & power, and certainly better than what the team had last year in an underwhelming foster & raw williams... having a competent, better, exceptional running game, would seem to increase the chance of winning... it also probably kept defenses so preoccupied that it loosened things up for delhomme, enabling him to play better, further increasing chances of winning... & it is a cliche that if you get a lead, it is probably easier to preserve it & win, if you can grind the clock in the 4th quarter on the ground...* in the later case, did the win come from ability to run, or did ability to run come from winning... in that case it seems more accurate & complete to say both, as they seem inextricably linked...

 

[simey]

When I looked at the Panther running game, it became obvious that the only two years, of the five Fox has been in Carolina, that the Panthers had a winning record were the only two years they were top half of the league in rush attempts. The question to me is whether the rushing attempts came from the Panthers winning or the winning came from rushing the ball.

this is a good question...when a team is behind, there is a seemingly necessary corellation where it becomes tougher to run a lot... so winning or losing could have an impact that would flow in the direction of causing more or less runs (a generalization, but it doesn't seem too controversial)...

The Panthers were in the lead in 8 games last year, all the way up into the 4th quarter and lost the games. In lots of these games, they abandoned the run all through the second half. The play calling was really strange last year. I know the offensive line was bad, which hurt the running game and Delhomme, but they would barely run it at all in the second half when they had the lead, even though the running game was working ok in the first half. The play calling was very frustrating to watch last season.

 

[switz]

Piggy; when did I say that DWill is going to be great.. if I did; please quote me...eefflrat was comparing Foster/DWill to TJ/Benson.. that too me is laughable.. Is anyone going to Draft Foster over TJ, is anyone going to think their going to get over 1200 yds out of Foster? NOPE Are people going to draft Foster and DWill in the same round like they use too w/ TJ and Benson last yr? NOPE

I think the point is that TJ languished under the "bust" label for a few years before bursting out, and it was his breakout that prevented Benson from being the starter. Maybe yo don't think Foster has Jones ability, but I would wager when Foster was drafted by Carolina, many thought he was a better RB than Jones. There is nothing to indicate Foster couldn't suddenly burst out and become a top tier running back.

Everyone is going to draft DWill way ahead of Foster because they know DWill is going to get his chance and will most likely take the job by mid-year.

Well, I guess I'm not everyone. DWill isn't as good as you think he is... really.

Foster had his chances in 2004 and 2005 to be the man (both yrs S Davis was placed on IR); and what happen both yrs? FOSTER WENT DOWN IF AN INJURY!And in 2006 he wasn't anything special at all; Failed to break 1000 yds because HE GOT INJURIED.

Exactly, it wasn't due to lack of talent. In fact, Foster is an extremely talented RB. And if he can stay healthy, he should easily keep DWill off the field.

Yeah, I own DWill. Drafted him this yr at 2.07 in a 14 team dynasty (19th RB taken) and I draft the Jacobs (4.07; 26th RB taken) Droughns combo for my RB #2 as I wait for Foster to go away.I realize that there is usaully a waiting period w/ 2nd yr RBs.. But DWill is in a good situation in Car and I'm happy w/ my selection.

It's very obvious you like DWill - your bias is a like a neon sign stapled to your forehead. Nonetheless, just because you drafted him and like him doesn't mean you're right about him at all.

 

[Chunky Soup]

...DWill isn't as good as you think he is... really.......In fact, Foster is an extremely talented RB. And if he can stay healthy, he should easily keep DWill off the field....

Honestly, have you ever seen DWill play? How about Foster? Saying Foster is an an "extremely talented RB" pretty much tells me you've never seen them play. They're not really close. DWill as a rookie was incredibly better than Foster.

 

[Ned]

this thread's got two things in it.

1 - great info on the new contract and what it could mean.

2 - dillusional deangello owners.

good stuff.

 

[switz]

...DWill isn't as good as you think he is... really.......In fact, Foster is an extremely talented RB. And if he can stay healthy, he should easily keep DWill off the field....

Honestly, have you ever seen DWill play? How about Foster? Saying Foster is an an "extremely talented RB" pretty much tells me you've never seen them play. They're not really close. DWill as a rookie was incredibly better than Foster.

Yes, I've seen both play, no I don't own either.,You obviously only watch one facet of the game, but Foster is a far superior overall RB than DWill.

 

[prymetyme25]

...DWill isn't as good as you think he is... really.......In fact, Foster is an extremely talented RB. And if he can stay healthy, he should easily keep DWill off the field....

Honestly, have you ever seen DWill play? How about Foster? Saying Foster is an an "extremely talented RB" pretty much tells me you've never seen them play. They're not really close. DWill as a rookie was incredibly better than Foster.

Well I have seen D-will with my on eyes vs Tulsa. And I was very impressed. I also followed Foster closely at UCLA and thought this guy was a Game breaker like few were at the time but had a serious fumbling problem. I remember thinking that he and Portis were two of the best backs in College at the time. For YOU to say that Foster is not talented shows your extreme lack of knowlegde or lack of exposure. Foster has a durability problem but thats about as far as it goes. D-will IMO is a more than capable back and from what i saw he has a total package(other than Ideal Bulk) as a runner. My problem with him was that he doesn't have a special trait so to speak. He has above average speed, Vision which i think is his best trait, not sure how he is as a blocker or reciever and in that game he didn't do much of either. Can he unseat Foster? sure Will he? doubtful Its RBBC and nothing more unless one of the 2 gets injuried. In order to outright take a guy off of the field at the RB position you have to be special and I just dont think that D-Will is nor do I think Foster will be anymore.

 

[eefflrat]

Piggy; when did I say that DWill is going to be great.. if I did; please quote me...eefflrat was comparing Foster/DWill to TJ/Benson.. that too me is laughable.. Is anyone going to Draft Foster over TJ, is anyone going to think their going to get over 1200 yds out of Foster? NOPE Are people going to draft Foster and DWill in the same round like they use too w/ TJ and Benson last yr? NOPE

I think the point is that TJ languished under the "bust" label for a few years before bursting out, and it was his breakout that prevented Benson from being the starter. Maybe yo don't think Foster has Jones ability, but I would wager when Foster was drafted by Carolina, many thought he was a better RB than Jones. There is nothing to indicate Foster couldn't suddenly burst out and become a top tier running back.

That was exactly my point.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Honestly, have you ever seen DWill play? How about Foster? Saying Foster is an an "extremely talented RB" pretty much tells me you've never seen them play. They're not really close. DWill as a rookie was incredibly better than Foster.

Williams better have been better than Foster was in his rookie year, when Foster was out the entire season.I drafted Foster as a rookie, traded him away at some point, then got him back when Davis went to Carolina. (I had him, too) I drafted Williams last year in that same league, and from what I saw, Williams looked to be a better all aound rb than Foster.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Lets pull this one back from the dead... I want to tear apart Foster's new contract.

3/10/2006: Signed a three-year, $14.5 million contract. The deal included a $4.5 million signing bonus and contains another $3 million in incentives. 2007: $750,000 (+ $1.5 million roster bonus + $2 million "signing" bonus), 2008: $4.75 million, 2009: Free Agent

Is the 4.5 mil signing bonus spread apart during the 3 yrs?

W/ is injuries and crappy #s; I doubt he seeing a lot of that 3 mil in centive money.

He resuctured his 2007 pay for $750,000 (+ $1.5 million roster bonus + $2 million "signing" bonus) most likely they told him he would be cut if he didn't sign.

Finally, IMO, his 2008: $4.75 million all but gaurantees he's a cap causality next yr.

So if anything; DeWill owners need to wait one more yr.

 

[msommer]

Lets pull this one back from the dead... I want to tear apart Foster's new contract.

3/10/2006: Signed a three-year, $14.5 million contract. The deal included a $4.5 million signing bonus and contains another $3 million in incentives. 2007: $750,000 (+ $1.5 million roster bonus + $2 million "signing" bonus), 2008: $4.75 million, 2009: Free Agent

Is the 4.5 mil signing bonus spread apart during the 3 yrs? yes

W/ is injuries and crappy #s; I doubt he seeing a lot of that 3 mil in centive money.

He resuctured his 2007 pay for $750,000 (+ $1.5 million roster bonus + $2 million "signing" bonus) most likely they told him he would be cut if he didn't sign.

Finally, IMO, his 2008: $4.75 million all but gaurantees he's a cap causality next yr.

So if anything; DeWill owners need to wait one more yr.

No more than his 4.25M guaranteed he was a cap casualty this year. They can however save 2.25M in cutting him.

 

[Kit Fisto]

Foster is starting to look like a guy who could wind up representing real value in redraft leagues this year. I'll be curious to see what his ADP shapes up to be this summer.

Did you copy and paste this straight out of the How to Talk Like Footballguys.com Handbook? All I can hear when I read that line is the voice black comedians use when making fun of uptight white people. "And we're not gonna fall for the banana in the tailpipe"...

No offense Thom, you're a solid poster. Just woke up on the silly side of the bed this AM.

 

[JohnnyU]

Foster is starting to look like a guy who could wind up representing real value in redraft leagues this year. I'll be curious to see what his ADP shapes up to be this summer.

Did you copy and paste this straight out of the How to Talk Like Footballguys.com Handbook? All I can hear when I read that line is the voice black comedians use when making fun of uptight white people. "And we're not gonna fall for the banana in the tailpipe"...

No offense Thom, you're a solid poster. Just woke up on the silly side of the bed this AM.

Watch it turn out to be true I think your post was overreacting to his post. I didn't find anything outlandish from his post.

 

[Routilla]

If they cut Foster then they are cutting their wrists at RB. Nothing against DWill but that would be a huge bet to be placing on a 2nd year RB, unless they worked out a deal for M. Turner. Noone in the draft would make me seriously consider cutting Foster considering where CAR picks.

 

[JohnnyU]

If they cut Foster then they are cutting their wrists at RB. Nothing against DWill but that would be a huge bet to be placing on a 2nd year RB, unless they worked out a deal for M. Turner. Noone in the draft would make me seriously consider cutting Foster considering where CAR picks.

What does "2nd year RB" have to do with anything? RB is one of the easiest positions for players to play early. Now if you were talking about OL, then there's a huge learning curve.

 

[ImTheScientist]

...DWill isn't as good as you think he is... really....

...In fact, Foster is an extremely talented RB. And if he can stay healthy, he should easily keep DWill off the field....

Honestly, have you ever seen DWill play? How about Foster? Saying Foster is an an "extremely talented RB" pretty much tells me you've never seen them play. They're not really close. DWill as a rookie was incredibly better than Foster.

Yes, I've seen both play, no I don't own either.,You obviously only watch one facet of the game, but Foster is a far superior overall RB than DWill.

 

[Routilla]

If they cut Foster then they are cutting their wrists at RB. Nothing against DWill but that would be a huge bet to be placing on a 2nd year RB, unless they worked out a deal for M. Turner. Noone in the draft would make me seriously consider cutting Foster considering where CAR picks.

What does "2nd year RB" have to do with anything? RB is one of the easiest positions for players to play early. Now if you were talking about OL, then there's a huge learning curve.

It's about depth. W/o Foster they have DWill and I guess Shelton(goalline)? Why would you deplete yourself at RB? If DWill went down with even a minor injury(even for a few plays in an important game) then they would be screwed at RB. Shelton is not the versatile type to replace either DF or DW. Why would they cut DF? I'm not saying DF is all world or anything but he's a good deal $ wise for a starting RB that could do very well. Now if he was a $6-7M cost then I could see it. They would be saving enough $ to replace him with a 1st rounder(Lynch maybe) or via trade(Turner).

 

[JohnnyU]

If they cut Foster then they are cutting their wrists at RB. Nothing against DWill but that would be a huge bet to be placing on a 2nd year RB, unless they worked out a deal for M. Turner. Noone in the draft would make me seriously consider cutting Foster considering where CAR picks.

What does "2nd year RB" have to do with anything? RB is one of the easiest positions for players to play early. Now if you were talking about OL, then there's a huge learning curve.

It's about depth. W/o Foster they have DWill and I guess Shelton(goalline)? Why would you deplete yourself at RB? If DWill went down with even a minor injury(even for a few plays in an important game) then they would be screwed at RB. Shelton is not the versatile type to replace either DF or DW. Why would they cut DF? I'm not saying DF is all world or anything but he's a good deal $ wise for a starting RB that could do very well. Now if he was a $6-7M cost then I could see it. They would be saving enough $ to replace him with a 1st rounder(Lynch maybe) or via trade(Turner).

I understand where you are coming from, but I was just making a comment about your reference " huge bet to be placing on a 2nd year RB". The fact that he's a 2nd year RB is irrelevent.

 

[bostonfred]

The fun thing about this argument is that in week 1, somebody will think they won it. Then a couple weeks later, someone else will say, see, my guy is taking over. And every good and bad play they make will be overanalyzed as each side tries to figure out why this time, it's not really a RBBC.

 

[KellysHeroes]

The fun thing about this argument is that in week 1, somebody will think they won it. Then a couple weeks later, someone else will say, see, my guy is taking over. And every good and bad play they make will be overanalyzed as each side tries to figure out why this time, it's not really a RBBC.

Foster / DeWill = Rhodes / Addai I hope they both end the way..

 

[Routilla]

I understand where you are coming from, but I was just making a comment about your reference " huge bet to be placing on a 2nd year RB". The fact that he's a 2nd year RB is irrelevent.

So you would be comfortable going into the season with basically DWill and Shelton? From a FF perspective this would be great for DWill as he would get a ton of touches. From a CAR perspective it would be a huge gamble without a proven back up. I wouldn't want to be forced to have a rookie from this draft as DWill's back up for the whole season. I guess we disagree.

 

[JohnnyU]

I understand where you are coming from, but I was just making a comment about your reference " huge bet to be placing on a 2nd year RB". The fact that he's a 2nd year RB is irrelevent.

So you would be comfortable going into the season with basically DWill and Shelton? From a FF perspective this would be great for DWill as he would get a ton of touches. From a CAR perspective it would be a huge gamble without a proven back up. I wouldn't want to be forced to have a rookie from this draft as DWill's back up for the whole season. I guess we disagree.

No, we agree. I wouldn't be comfortable with just D-Will and Shelton, but the fact that he's a 2nd year back has nothing to do with it.

 

[Christo]

Yeah, and the Bears picked Cedric Benson to be the man right away too.. Sometimes it doesn't work the way we fantasy guys hope it will. DW is splitting time at least to start this year, he'll be lucky to shake Foster off his taill if Foster is healthy.

Foster is no TJ. Foster has not even come close to TJ's totals; the guy has had a sub-par career.

So did TJ for the first four years of his career.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

One potential value boost for Williams that people seem to be overlooking is the inevitable injury to DeShaun Foster. I owned him for years, and agree that he has the ability to be a solid, or better, RB in the NFL. He has never shown that he can stay healthy, though, even in a RBBC situation. At some point, I think that there is at least a fair chance that Foster gets hurt and Williams starts to see 20+ touches. If he succeeds in a more featured role, it might be harder for Foster to be more than a 3rd doen, COP back going forward. Normally I don't try to predict injury, but in Foster's case, it seems more likely than average. That said, I agree with those saying that both RBs will be in Carolina in some type of RBBC for a while.

 

[AB in DC]

Lets pull this one back from the dead... I want to tear apart Foster's new contract.3/10/2006: Signed a three-year, $14.5 million contract. The deal included a $4.5 million signing bonus and contains another $3 million in incentives. 2007: $750,000 (+ $1.5 million roster bonus + $2 million "signing" bonus), 2008: $4.75 million, 2009: Free Agent Is the 4.5 mil signing bonus spread apart during the 3 yrs? W/ is injuries and crappy #s; I doubt he seeing a lot of that 3 mil in centive money.He resuctured his 2007 pay for $750,000 (+ $1.5 million roster bonus + $2 million "signing" bonus) most likely they told him he would be cut if he didn't sign.Finally, IMO, his 2008: $4.75 million all but gaurantees he's a cap causality next yr. So if anything; DeWill owners need to wait one more yr.

Ugh...I need to write a Caponomics 101 article. The restructuring does not increase or decrease the odds of Foster being a cap casualty next year. It just moves $1,750,000 from the 2007 cap to the 2008 cap. That $1,750,000 will hit the cap no matter what happens.Foster is still getting $4.25 million this year. Before the restructure, it was all base salary. Now it's $3.5 million in "signing bonus" plus $750,000 in salary. Either way, it's the all the same money.If you are saying that he will not be worth the $4.75 million next year, I agree with you, but (a) this has nothing to do with the restructure, and (b) the Panthers already decided he's worth $4.25 million this year, so they may not see it as more than a small raise.

 

[bostonfred]

The fun thing about this argument is that in week 1, somebody will think they won it. Then a couple weeks later, someone else will say, see, my guy is taking over. And every good and bad play they make will be overanalyzed as each side tries to figure out why this time, it's not really a RBBC.

Foster / DeWill = Rhodes / Addai I hope they both end the way..

If that was going to happen, it probably would have happened last year. I think some teams are legitimately looking for two good backs like this, and I think the Panthers are one of them. Others want that feature back. Both are probably valid strategies in the NFL. If a coach who wants a feature back has two mediocre backs, they might go RBBC for a year, then try to solve the problem in free agency or the draft the next year. If a team that wants RBBC has one guy who is much better than the other, they may give him a shot, but it'll be a slower process. I think it will take a lot (and more than anything we saw last year) for DeAngelo to take this job outright.

 

[Giggity]

One potential value boost for Williams that people seem to be overlooking is the inevitable injury to DeShaun Foster. I owned him for years, and agree that he has the ability to be a solid, or better, RB in the NFL. He has never shown that he can stay healthy, though, even in a RBBC situation. At some point, I think that there is at least a fair chance that Foster gets hurt and Williams starts to see 20+ touches. If he succeeds in a more featured role, it might be harder for Foster to be more than a 3rd doen, COP back going forward. Normally I don't try to predict injury, but in Foster's case, it seems more likely than average. That said, I agree with those saying that both RBs will be in Carolina in some type of RBBC for a while.

Did you write this in 2006 and it just got posted now? Because that's what everyone said last year. Foster won't stay healthy, Dwill will take over and dominate.Regardless, Foster was healthy for most of 2006.When Foster did miss 2 games, DWill started. But when Foster came back, he resumed the starters role and got the lion's share of the carries.People seem to think once Dwill gets his shot it's over. But DWill did get his shot. Not to say he won't get better, but Fox firmly believes Foster getting the bulk of the carries gives them the best chance to win. Foster is still young, healthy, and it's wishful thinking to see DWill in any kind of feature role this year. Until DWill starts dominating Foster, is named the starter, both are going to be pretty much unstartable in FF.

 

[KellysHeroes]

If you are saying that he will not be worth the $4.75 million next year, I agree with you, but (a) this has nothing to do with the restructure, and (b) the Panthers already decided he's worth $4.25 million this year, so they may not see it as more than a small raise.

That is what I'm saying... no team should pay a guy who can't even get 900yds close to 5 mil.

 

[Keith Lewis]

both are going to be pretty much unstartable in FF.

This is where I stand.

 

[SproutDaddy]

You obviously only watch one facet of the game, but Foster is a far superior overall RB than DWill.

That's the funniest #### I've read all day!

 

[Dirty Weasel]

I own both, and of course I put one of my 3 franchise tags on DWill at the start of last season. Did I expect DeShaun to get hurt? Probably. Did I think DWill would take over midseason and finish the year with a bang? Probably. Fact is, DeShaun stayed healthy enough to have a decent season, albeit with a low TD total. DWill got in enough time to show some skills, and I expect similar things this year, barring injury. DWill owners just have to be patient.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

One potential value boost for Williams that people seem to be overlooking is the inevitable injury to DeShaun Foster. I owned him for years, and agree that he has the ability to be a solid, or better, RB in the NFL. He has never shown that he can stay healthy, though, even in a RBBC situation. At some point, I think that there is at least a fair chance that Foster gets hurt and Williams starts to see 20+ touches. If he succeeds in a more featured role, it might be harder for Foster to be more than a 3rd doen, COP back going forward. Normally I don't try to predict injury, but in Foster's case, it seems more likely than average. That said, I agree with those saying that both RBs will be in Carolina in some type of RBBC for a while.

Did you write this in 2006 and it just got posted now? Because that's what everyone said last year. Foster won't stay healthy, Dwill will take over and dominate.Regardless, Foster was healthy for most of 2006.When Foster did miss 2 games, DWill started. But when Foster came back, he resumed the starters role and got the lion's share of the carries.People seem to think once Dwill gets his shot it's over. But DWill did get his shot. Not to say he won't get better, but Fox firmly believes Foster getting the bulk of the carries gives them the best chance to win. Foster is still young, healthy, and it's wishful thinking to see DWill in any kind of feature role this year. Until DWill starts dominating Foster, is named the starter, both are going to be pretty much unstartable in FF.

Yeah, you are absolutely right. Foster staying healthy for all of 14 games last year outweighs the fact that he's been banged up and missed time, despite never seeing more than 227 carries, throughout his entire career. Fact is, Foster has had every opportunity to grab the job in Carolina. He has faced limited competition, and hasn't done anything to distinguish himself. He has shown flashes of talent, but has never been anything better than average other than a few highlight reel runs. It is pretty safe to say that he isn't going to suddenly turn into a difference-making workhorse.We really don't know what Williams is capable of yet. He, too, might turn out to be nothing special, but he hasn't had a four year track record of average to below average play. He was a rookie last year, playing for a coach notoriously loyal to veteran players. I'd rather bet on him improving/Foster getting hurt than Foster staying healthy and suddenly improving in his 5th year.Obviously there will be some form of RBBC to start the year. If one player has a chance to grab the lion's share of the carries, however, that player is clearly Williams, not Foster.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Yeah, you are absolutely right. Foster staying healthy for all of 14 games last year outweighs the fact that he's been banged up and missed time, despite never seeing more than 227 carries, throughout his entire career. Fact is, Foster has had every opportunity to grab the job in Carolina. He has faced limited competition, and hasn't done anything to distinguish himself. He has shown flashes of talent, but has never been anything better than average other than a few highlight reel runs. It is pretty safe to say that he isn't going to suddenly turn into a difference-making workhorse.We really don't know what Williams is capable of yet. He, too, might turn out to be nothing special, but he hasn't had a four year track record of average to below average play. He was a rookie last year, playing for a coach notoriously loyal to veteran players. I'd rather bet on him improving/Foster getting hurt than Foster staying healthy and suddenly improving in his 5th year.Obviously there will be some form of RBBC to start the year. If one player has a chance to grab the lion's share of the carries, however, that player is clearly Williams, not Foster.

Nice

 

[simey]

He resuctured his 2007 pay for $750,000 (+ $1.5 million roster bonus + $2 million "signing" bonus) most likely they told him he would be cut if he didn't sign.Finally, IMO, his 2008: $4.75 million all but gaurantees he's a cap causality next yr. So if anything; DeWill owners need to wait one more yr.

DeShaun's 2 million dollar guaranteed roster bonus is to be split between this year and next.

 

[switz]

He resuctured his 2007 pay for $750,000 (+ $1.5 million roster bonus + $2 million "signing" bonus) most likely they told him he would be cut if he didn't sign.

You don't understand the salary cap if you think that. Most likely Foster knew signing the deal wuld ensure he was with the team another year. Not because they "held a gun to his head" but because the deal would make it more difficult financially for them to cut him this year.Think about it... if they cut him, he's have another job immediately, with the number of teams needing a running back. Buffalo, Tennessee, Green Bay, Minnesota, Oakland, all would be quick to sign him if he was cut. And in most of those places, he'd walk in as the starter.