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Patriot Gurus - Cap Managment (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
SSOG
Fair points. To the Indy and Denver comments, I have to say. Indy has had great regular season success. They've made one AFC championship. I believe time and again that Peyton Manning will choke when the money is on the line. They've built the offense to win with him. The business model isn't flawed, the man they bet the franchise on is, and I said it when they gave him the money.
As for the Denver run. You can check my posts, I think Shanny is great. I think he's made many questionable calls as a GM, but who hasn't? When you're drafting 7 and signing 8-10 players a year, you're going to miss on some. That's the nature of the beast. Most notable was his handline of the Griese fiasco. Not that Griese wasn't ready, because he had one of the great seasons as an NFL QB the next year. What was he at 19 TD to 4 INT's when he got hurt? I can't remember, but it was the way it went down. But, to be fair, the #1 thing that benefitted Shanahans early run was Elway, the man who I consider the greatest football player ever. I despise the Broncos, but I respect the heck out of Elway and what he brought to the game. In measuring Shanahans early success, you have to measure his presence in, because it is significant. He did compile the team. He brought in Zimm. He brought in Brown. He brought in Schlereth. They were the core. He inherited Sharpe. He brought in Eddie Mac. He did a lot in his time. But, without #7, it doesn't happen. And, they could have beat J'ville, but didn't. It's almost 3 in 3, but it's 2 in a row. Losing their first playoff game of the year isn't an almost, no matter the potential of the team.
BB, on the other hand had to turn over the reigns to a kid that rarely played in college that he coached up.. Giving the Broncos credit for the 3rd in 3 is like saying the Pats pretty much had 4 in 5. They didn't. They had 3 in 5.
Like I say, I have faith in the system. Would it have been better to not go intot he season with the #1 and #2 receiver not in camp? Sure, but we have, IMHO, the best coach in the came. He'll coach them up. Remember, it was Doug Gabriel that finally sent Jerry Rice to his final shower, or at least to the #4 hole which Jerry wasn't content with. He's no slouch. He's very fast. Jackson has the potential to be better than Branch, by the end of the season. They will make the playoffs, and anything can happen there. Now, they're armed with 2-#1's next year, and lots of cap room. I say they're far from finished in the competative arena, regardless of what happens this year. They've had 4 consecutive great drafts, and have a solid young core on both lines. They'll be in contention for many years.
I still maintain that this is a coaches league. Teams that have the likes of Shanahan, BB, Parcells, Coughlin, Cowher et al will always be in contention.
Fair points. To the Indy and Denver comments, I have to say. Indy has had great regular season success. They've made one AFC championship. I believe time and again that Peyton Manning will choke when the money is on the line. They've built the offense to win with him. The business model isn't flawed, the man they bet the franchise on is, and I said it when they gave him the money.
As for the Denver run. You can check my posts, I think Shanny is great. I think he's made many questionable calls as a GM, but who hasn't? When you're drafting 7 and signing 8-10 players a year, you're going to miss on some. That's the nature of the beast. Most notable was his handline of the Griese fiasco. Not that Griese wasn't ready, because he had one of the great seasons as an NFL QB the next year. What was he at 19 TD to 4 INT's when he got hurt? I can't remember, but it was the way it went down. But, to be fair, the #1 thing that benefitted Shanahans early run was Elway, the man who I consider the greatest football player ever. I despise the Broncos, but I respect the heck out of Elway and what he brought to the game. In measuring Shanahans early success, you have to measure his presence in, because it is significant. He did compile the team. He brought in Zimm. He brought in Brown. He brought in Schlereth. They were the core. He inherited Sharpe. He brought in Eddie Mac. He did a lot in his time. But, without #7, it doesn't happen. And, they could have beat J'ville, but didn't. It's almost 3 in 3, but it's 2 in a row. Losing their first playoff game of the year isn't an almost, no matter the potential of the team.
BB, on the other hand had to turn over the reigns to a kid that rarely played in college that he coached up.. Giving the Broncos credit for the 3rd in 3 is like saying the Pats pretty much had 4 in 5. They didn't. They had 3 in 5.
Like I say, I have faith in the system. Would it have been better to not go intot he season with the #1 and #2 receiver not in camp? Sure, but we have, IMHO, the best coach in the came. He'll coach them up. Remember, it was Doug Gabriel that finally sent Jerry Rice to his final shower, or at least to the #4 hole which Jerry wasn't content with. He's no slouch. He's very fast. Jackson has the potential to be better than Branch, by the end of the season. They will make the playoffs, and anything can happen there. Now, they're armed with 2-#1's next year, and lots of cap room. I say they're far from finished in the competative arena, regardless of what happens this year. They've had 4 consecutive great drafts, and have a solid young core on both lines. They'll be in contention for many years.
I still maintain that this is a coaches league. Teams that have the likes of Shanahan, BB, Parcells, Coughlin, Cowher et al will always be in contention.
Yes, I do remember. I also know the details of the situation.In one instance, Mike Shanahan told a veteran player that they weren't going to cut him, and the league ruled that that violated the salary cap because Denver should have immediately converted his entire salary that season into guaranteed money. In another instance, Pat Bowlen told several players that he couldn't afford their salaries at the moment with all the money he was spending on the new stadium, so he paid them a portion of the deal a year or two later with interest.Personally, I feel like the first "violation" was crap. If Belichick told Brady they weren't going to cut him, would New England have to suddenly guarantee his salary, too? As for the second violation... I agree that it was a violation and definitely needed to be punished, but it provided Denver with absolutely no competitive advantage. The players had already agreed to their contracts, showed up to camp, etc, etc, etc. Denver was under the salary cap, and Bowlen didn't offer the delayed payment with interest in order to get the players to stay and play for less- like I said, the contracts were already in place, and the interest he offered was no more than the players would have gotten if they'd been paid on time and put the money in the bank themselves, so Bowlen didn't even pay them any extra in terms of actual final dollars.Like I said, it was clearly a cap violation, and clearly deserved the penalty, but if anyone suggests that Denver "cheated" the cap- implying that they somehow got some sort of competitive advantage by playing fast and loose with the cap rules- then I will have to disagree. Seriously, Denver won 2 SBs. Don't you think the league would have penalized them more than a 3rd-rounder if they had really gained a competitive advantage by cheating the cap? That would just set the precedent that you could feel free to cheat the cap, gain a competitive advantage, and win a superbowl as a result... and it'll only cost you a 3rd rounder.
I wasn't arguing that Denver should be credited with 3 SB wins in 5 years. You said that no team even came close, and I'm just arguing that Denver most certainly did. Also, you make the point that Brady was a kid that Belichick coached up. I don't really get how that's relevant. I mean, Shanahan coached up Elway. I don't get why that matters, though.Also, I don't see how it could be argued that New England almost had 4 in 5. They were 9-7 and out of the playoffs in one year, and 10-6 and playing on wildcard weekend in the other. Surely you can see the difference between going 13-3 and earning the #1 seed and going 10-6 and earning the #4 seed (which would have actually been the #6 seed if the wildcards weren't automatically the 5 and 6 seeds). I made the contention that if Oakland and New England had switched divisions last year, Oakland would have been contending for a playoff berth and New England would have finished last in the AFC West.
I think the Patriots will always be competitive with Belichick in town, but I don't think they'll always be in contention. They're going to have far more winning seasons than losing seasons, but I think it'll be a while before you see any 12+ win seasons in Boston again.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Bump.
This was one of the mid-season signings that was pretty obviously coming. And right in that little blurb about the Patriots having their entire offensive line signed long-term is the kind of thing you like to see as a Pats fan. It's a pretty lucrative deal too, not something that is like really below market.I expect Daniel Graham to be next, but we'll see.
