SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Time to start bumping some posts.
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Patriots being investigated after Colts game (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter HobbesAB
- Start date
Pickle Rody
IBL Representative
Are you serious? If the NFLPA was worried about Goodell and his far reaching authority they should never have agreed to the current CBA. They did though, and it's a binding document collectively bargained for. The players union wasn't forced to sign the version they actually signed.
When did he "call one thing another"? I was under the impression this was the first time a team actively conspired (using their own staff under direction from players) to alter balls after inspection and then when pressed for details and evidence, the evidence was destroyed. There was no precedence for any of this and I highly doubt another team tries something like this again. This whole fiasco is nothing close to "stick em" and involves so much more than just under inflated balls.
Pickle Rody
IBL Representative
Effing crybaby Pats fans....you people are the worst.
Run It Up
Footballguy
The language wasn't clear but you're right, they did sign it which is why they lost the appeal. It's also why the next CBA will be sooner then 2020 and why there will likely be a hold out. The NFL isn't gonna give up complete control without concessions.
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SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Run It Up obviously refers to his post count.
Run It Up
Footballguy
Hyuck hyuck, pour back in haters, like you didn't leave with your tail between your legs two years ago.
Saints fans know and if dolphins fans were paying attention with the incognito bull#### they know to. It's not just Pats fans who get to enjoy Goodell's free reign, we all get to. Just hope you all get to enjoy the 'outrage' when your team does something so heinous as to be accused of something that is never proven and still pay a price to be determined by your success.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Ultimately I do not think this will prevent the Patriots from controlling their Division once again. At least I believe that will be the case if Garropolo stays healthy. They certainly will be working on a razor thin margin for a quarter of the season.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
balls were under inflated = the team cheated = penalize/blame the QB who touched the ball every play
that's the NFL's reasoning
but .... nobody wants to talk about the 75% deflated balls the Colts had that game, and why Luck didn't report it and who on the Colts teams took the all pressures down that much
why ? because it was a Patriots head hunt, the entire way. Ran out of time testing balls .... please,
that's the NFL's reasoning
but .... nobody wants to talk about the 75% deflated balls the Colts had that game, and why Luck didn't report it and who on the Colts teams took the all pressures down that much
why ? because it was a Patriots head hunt, the entire way. Ran out of time testing balls .... please,
Bossman
Footballguy
So the 2 judges that sided with Godel / NFL were only interested in article 46 which states that Godel has free reign to judge, penalize, and arbitrate, any way he sees fit. They were not interested in the details of the case itself.
Meaning that if Godel chose to ban Brady for life, these judges would have upheld that ... regardless if the case against Brady was shotty, lacked any hard evidence and the insignificance of the alleged infraction.
One judge, Katzmann, the "head of all judges", actually looked at the case and ruled for Brady / NFLPA.
Meaning that if Godel chose to ban Brady for life, these judges would have upheld that ... regardless if the case against Brady was shotty, lacked any hard evidence and the insignificance of the alleged infraction.
One judge, Katzmann, the "head of all judges", actually looked at the case and ruled for Brady / NFLPA.
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Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I like these attempts to try to minimize the decision. First we had the argument about 2 out of 4 judges agreeing with Brady, and now we have the Chief Judge doing so, as if his opinion bears more weight than his fellow jurists. The fact is the Chief part of his designation does not denote more power or wisdom. It is an administrative position. His vote weighs no more or less than that of his co-equals. As for the two prevailing judges not being interested in the details of the case, one that shows they followed the law and not some independent and undefined sense of justice, and two, it is a good thing they did not as indicated by their questioning during arguments and some of their written work since they clearly thought Brady culpable.
Brady supporters would do well to just let the matter die. The defenses just bring further attention to his doings. Just get this sad incident in the rearview mirror.
Run It Up
Footballguy
Its the difference between conservative and progressive law.
Feel how you want about either, but there isn't a right or wrong.
Feel how you want about either, but there isn't a right or wrong.
Doesn't sound like Brady or the NFLPA are interested in what you or anyone else thinks. The more than a year's time inbetween now and that AFCCG have made this about more than just footballs and the NFL has done everything in their power to move the goal posts and I imagine that is what pisses Brady off the most - the NFLPA is more concerned about insulating the players from unfair judgement.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
the NFLPA is more concerned with representing it's clientele. not promoting social justice within the NFL
Something the NFLPA should have been concerned about during CBA negotiations. This is a nice try at an en around but it was seen through by the courts.
Run It Up
Footballguy
I don't think anyone is suggesting the NFLPA shouldn't have either paid their lawyers more or asked for more concessions from the league before signing the CBA, I don't think we're gonna make it to 2020 before there is a holdout.
I was referring to their jobs, not social justice - of which the League and the NFLPA clearly care very little for.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
This whole thing is basically about whether or not Goodell is allowed to throw a good old-fashioned witch hunt. Berman was so appalled by the "independent investigation" that he overturned the suspension; these two judges now are basically saying "it isn't our place to judge an arbitrator's decisions, or in the general the terms of a negotiated CBA".
The fact that the investigation itself was an absolute sham hasn't changed. The fact that the general public knows it was a sham hasn't changed.
Looks like we're gonna get to see what Garoppolo can do. Hopefully they go out and get real RB who can carry the load those first few weeks. I'm a little less pessimistic than some, we're always a terror when healthy and we ought to manage that for the first four weeks.
The "deflator" texts remain the only decent evidence the NFL has that the Patriots ever deflated footballs. There's zero credible evidence that they deflated balls for the AFCCG.
It's every bit as stupid as it seems.
I can barely make sense of those texts. If a team can has a range of where they can inflate balls they are not doing their job if they are not discussing that.
You can totally tell the differences with basketballs and it makes a real difference. Sure it's the same with footballs. Of course every QB talks/manages it.
The equipment manager's nickname in the locker room was The Deflator. And Tom Brady destroyed his phone on the very morning that he was going to be interviewed by Ted Wells. Open and shut case. New England would have been better off having Brady just serve the four games last year and getting it over with. They didn't even make the Super Bowl with him. Now they have to lose four games this year. Take your medicine boys.
Excellent point; I'm not sure which way these judges normally lean, but the 2 who said "Goodell didn't violate the CBA" are adhering to the role of the appeals court to simply decide if the CBA was adhered to, not whether any right/wrong-doing existed, where as the other two seemed to be going beyond that & saying "the facts of the case don't add up, so Goodell was wrong."
This makes me think Brady/the NFLPA's best option going forward is to appeal to the entire Appeals court, rather than the SC. I don't see the SC deciding to hear this case, as it doesn't seem to provide a unique federal question to be studied. Perhaps there are more progressive-leaning judges on the entire Appeals court than conservative. :(
Definitely need a link for the first part there.
The second one is just classic... what a bunch of losers!
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moleculo
Footballguy
there is zero credible evidence that the observed pressure in the Patriots balls at halftime was caused by natural forces (i.e. the ideal gas law). in short, the science is inconclusive either way.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
No reason they should. Apologists for him, however, might be interested to know that to many they are doing more harm than good. They are so far gone that they will likely not take the advice to heart, but there it is anyhow.
If you wish to argue that my free advice is not worth the price you would not be the first and you would have distinguished company.
And to Patriots fans, this is "proof" that they are innocent: "you can't prove NE deflated footballs."
And to Patriot haters/non-fans, this is proof that they are guility: "you can't prove that NE didn't deflate footballs
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apalmer
Footballguy
Except this time it's more like a son-of-a-witch hunt, and they've nailed the son-of-a-witch.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Yep. Only one team stood up to Goodell and refused to sign the CBA for this very reason. If Brady is pissed he should direct his anger to his teammates and the other teams that agreed to it. I have zero sympathy for players whining about how unjust the system is after the fact.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
tick tock...tick tock...tick tock......time is ticking away.
Eat he penalty... go 3-1 anyway. WIn the division...again. Have an extremely high likelyhood of going to the Conference Championship game... again. Be a favorite to make it to the superbowl... again.
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Insoxicated
This is interesting coming from a fan of the oldest team (average age) in the league, and who's window of potential success has already pretty much closed.
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Boston
Footballguy
This sums it up...
http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/Tom-E-Curran-Like-Tom-Brady-ruling-or-not-the-players-agreed-to-Roger-
Looks like link is not connecting...here is cut and paste:
Curran: Like Brady ruling or not, the players agreed to Goodell's power
By Tom E. Curran April 25, 2016 8:45 PM
302
2 Comments
http://csnne.com/pulse http://newenglandford.com/ https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/jump...EW/B9349379.127308920;sz=1x1;ord=[timestamp]?
It didn’t matter how trumped up the charges were. It didn’t matter how sloppy, prejudicial and scummy the investigation was. The lies didn’t matter. The leaks didn’t matter. The damn science didn’t matter.
Tom Brady’s rights didn’t matter. Fairness didn’t matter.
What mattered was the power handed to Roger Goodell five years ago.
The Ginger Hammer had the right to rubber-stamp the bag-job investigation he authorized. He had the right to uphold the punishment he handed down. And the players gave it to him.
In the end – and we are close to the end – the ship that would have delivered Brady to freedom sailed in 2011. That was when Brady’s union and the NFL’s owners agreed to let Goodell sit on his iron throne and dispense his own brand of industrial justice.
That agreement came after the players aimed a bayonet at the owner’s hearts in the form of an antitrust lawsuit which bore Brady’s name (and nine others).
Brady vs. the NFL was just saber-rattling though. The players wanted a new and more lucrative CBA, not a fight over the antitrust exemption the NFL enjoys. So the union eventually took its newfound pay and benefits concessions from the league and punted on the discipline stuff.
And Monday, two of the three judges who heard the NFL’s appeal of Judge Berman pounded Brady and the NFLPA over the head with that concession.
“A federal court’s review of labor arbitration awards is narrowly circumscribed and highly deferential – indeed, among the most deferential in law. Our role is not to determine for ourselves whether Brady participated in a scheme to deflate footballs or whether the suspension imposed by the Commissioner should have been for three games or five games or none at all. Nor is it our role to second-guess the arbitrator’s procedural rulings,” wrote Second Circuit Judge Barrington D. Parker.
In brief, they don’t care what level of hack and paid character assassin Ted Wells is. And they don’t care that Brady’s alleged awareness of ball deflation was deemed worthy of the same penalty Goodell handed down to the subhuman Greg Hardy.
And they don’t care that the guy who upheld that absurd punishment was the same guy that handed it down. Because the players said he could do that.
“…if an arbitrator makes mistakes of fact or law, we may not disturb an award so long as he acted within the bounds of his bargained-for authority,” Parker added.
When the players agreed to let Goodell continue in his role as judge, jury and executioner, they never could have foreseen this eventuality.
Who would take seriously a scenario in which the greatest quarterback in the history of the game would be framed by a pack of stooges from the league office who’ve been riding along as lavishly-paid hemorrhoids for decades?
A scenario in which the franchise possessed by the league’s most embarrassing owner – Jim Irsay – with a knuckle-dragging Igor as GM – Ryan Grigson – would get the NFL to snap-to-attention over presumed ball deflation. Ball deflation so negligible even the league’s officials couldn’t detect it while handling the balls play after play.
A scenario in which the NFL would say, “Yes. We will wage this war for truth and justice,” yet when it learned what a fifth-grader should know – stuff goes flat when it’s cold out – they began to concoct and smear.
A scenario in which one player - with the tacit approval of a cabal of owners bent on seeing the Patriots get “theirs” - would become the NFL’s white whale.
A scenario in which a player who is representative of everything the league says it wants to embrace is held up by a serpentine Commissioner who’s lived off the NFL’s teat for three decades as lacking integrity.
One supposes if that scenario was laid out, the players might have thought twice. Then again, who would have ever believed it?
You can wail about the judges who sided against Brady and vacated Judge Berman’s decision. You can gnash your teeth about Goodell and his minions.
But Tom Brady was hoisted on his own petard, as they say. And there wasn’t nothing they could do about it. The whole thing reminds me of Goodfellas.
Salut.
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Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Winning is the best revenge or salve. Good for you, moving on to the positive future instead of trying to write history at this moment. History will write itself, and what is written can still be influenced by what is yet to come. For all I know the Pats may grab another title or two. Brady may apologize, save Indianapolis Colt babies from a burning building, and give his entire fortune to aid dyslexic migrant illiterate midgets who have been subject to spousal abuse and police profiling.
Eat he penalty... go 3-1 anyway. WIn the division...again. Have an extremely high likelyhood of going to the Conference Championship game... again. Be a favorite to make it to the superbowl... again.
Legacies can yet be shaped.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
The Colts are quoted saying they will get younger and it will start with this draft. All that matters at the moment is our QB probably has 12 to 14 years left and the Colts can build around him with the draft. Luck will be around long after Brady is watching the Patriots in his rocking chair. I expect NE to have several lean years post Tom Brady.This is interesting coming from a fan of the oldest team (average age) in the league, and who's window of potential success has already pretty much closed.
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Brendon1215
Footballguy
Spot on. NE will never be the same once Brady leaves. "Lean" is a nice way of putting it.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
with the cap rising big each season (and hence their paydays) don't count on a holdout just because Tommy boy has to sit out a few games.
Quote from Drew Brees
"I think this was an issue again where the commissioner's authority was challenged and the league is gonna do whatever they can to make sure they know that he is in position to make these types of unilateral decisions, and there's nothing anybody can do about it."
"I think this was an issue again where the commissioner's authority was challenged and the league is gonna do whatever they can to make sure they know that he is in position to make these types of unilateral decisions, and there's nothing anybody can do about it."
Run It Up
Footballguy
Various NFLPA reps and lawyers have been on the radio all day today.
The lawyers sound like they are absolutely gonna petition the second circuit. The Reps are just reiterating that the system isn't going to work for the NFLPA and it needs to change.
Even less confident the CBA makes it to 2020.
The lawyers sound like they are absolutely gonna petition the second circuit. The Reps are just reiterating that the system isn't going to work for the NFLPA and it needs to change.
Even less confident the CBA makes it to 2020.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Actually, based on the court's ruling yesterday, no. The majority opinion held that the CBA allows Goodell to do whatever he sees fit and invoke and enforce a penalty of his choosing.
So theoretically, Goodell could suspend a player for any reason at any time for an indefinite amount of time. And he can hear all appeals and refuse to let anyone else hear cases and be the only one involved in the decision.
Goodell could come out and say he doesn't like what he's heard about the Patriots and ban Brady from the league and nothing could undo that if he insisted on it. That's effectively what happened in Deflategate (on a smaller scale). The majority of other owners went to the Commissioner and said punish New England again . . . we don't care for what. And he did. Per the terms of the CBA, he has the right to do so . . . and he did. I wouldn't go all out and suggest that they MANUFACTURED a case against Brady and New England, but they did enough to may it appear that that Brady and the Pats COULD have done something and proof or evidence was irrelevant at that point.
