Road Warriors
Footballguy
They were accused of taping practices ( I think against the Rams in 2001 ), but that was false. Spygate was taping opposing signals, not opposing practices.
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Patriots being investigated after Colts game (2 Viewers)
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Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
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the moops
Footballguy
They didn't sneak into a practice. it happened during a game.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Thanks. I actually missed that game because I was out to dinner for my son's birthday. I'd heard on the radio that the refs failed to do so and that's where the "controversy" lies. It was Mike Francesca who said so, and he's often wrong and I guess he was once again.The refs announced on the PA system who was eligible and who was ineligible, and from what I heard from people that went to the game, they even announced who had to be covered and who didn't at least on one of the plays.They have to announce when a player not wearing a receivers number (like an o-lineman) is eligible. Don't they need to do so when a player like Vereen lines up but ineligible?
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Road Warriors
Footballguy
For the purposes of this thread, any of these that the Patriots have done are cheating, any that they have not been accused of ( because accusation is all it takes for that organization ), is just playing the game.The refs announced on the PA system who was eligible and who was ineligible, and from what I heard from people that went to the game, they even announced who had to be covered and who didn't at least on one of the plays.They have to announce when a player not wearing a receivers number (like an o-lineman) is eligible. Don't they need to do so when a player like Vereen lines up but ineligible?
As for the THEY CHEATED argument against the Pats for whatever they have been accused of doing over the years, what makes a team be called cheaters? For example . . .
- Not disclosing injuries properly
- Knowing a player is taking PEDs and playing him anyway
- Turning the heat or air conditioning on when a team is attempting a FG
- Not adhering to the salary cap properly
- Not adhering to the practice schedule requirements as agreed upon by the NFLPA
- Coaching your DBs to grab receivers and live with a few penalties
Are any of those cheating? Only some of them? Which ones are major? Which ones should be ignored?
bostonfred
Footballguy
illegal formations 
rockaction
Footballguy
Or because you overtly break rules and other teams don't like it? (No, not the formation stuff.)
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I have also seen some people are insisting that what the Pats did will either be considered illegal after the rules committee addresses it in the offseason (or the process will be changed to give defenses a chance to change their scheme). However, the Pats did not invent a rule, the rule has been the same since the game was created. I am not sure that the league will change one of the basic fundamentals of the game. You can use whomever you want wherever you want. Deception is a time tested strategy, and sometimes it works out in your favor and sometimes it doesn't. If the defense is expecting it, having only 4 OL men in the game could get your QB obliterated. I hope (doubt?) they change anything, as the process as it stands now seems to be pretty clear and self-evident. You cover the players based on where they line up (not by the number they are wearing). The Ravens are mad because they caught with their pants down and had to try to save face by accusing NE of breaking the rules.Thanks. I actually missed that game because I was out to dinner for my son's birthday. I'd heard on the radio that the refs failed to do so and that's where the "controversy" lies. It was Mike Francesca who said so, and he's often wrong and I guess he was once again.The refs announced on the PA system who was eligible and who was ineligible, and from what I heard from people that went to the game, they even announced who had to be covered and who didn't at least on one of the plays.They have to announce when a player not wearing a receivers number (like an o-lineman) is eligible. Don't they need to do so when a player like Vereen lines up but ineligible?
G
General Tso
Guest
It's incorrect. They went 0-13, then won 2 games in a row, which did jeopardize the #1 pick, but finished the job by losing to the lowly Jaguars in week 17. There wasn't a chance in hell they were going to win that game and lose out on Luck.
ratbast
Footballguy
Today's stuff sure sounds like the formation stuff. I think this ball deflating crap has even been played before.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
What?....you think the Bills losing in 4 Super Bowls or
Shake and Bake, Eli.
The General
Footballguy
ALL BALL TALK!!
Watching ESPN they just Broke down exactly how the game balls are prepped. Each team has there own set of 12 or so that they prep the way they like but they must meet certain standards as far as how much or little they are inflated. A ref looks at them and puts a mark on them then they go into a big bag and are used throughout the game.
The Colts have their own set so the Pats are using a separate set. Seems pretty dumb thing but I do I think it's pretty funny that the Pats are the team that are getting called out for this.
Since there is nothing to talk about for 2 weeks, I'm sure this will get all kinds of pub and NFL will make some announcement.
Watching ESPN they just Broke down exactly how the game balls are prepped. Each team has there own set of 12 or so that they prep the way they like but they must meet certain standards as far as how much or little they are inflated. A ref looks at them and puts a mark on them then they go into a big bag and are used throughout the game.
The Colts have their own set so the Pats are using a separate set. Seems pretty dumb thing but I do I think it's pretty funny that the Pats are the team that are getting called out for this.
Since there is nothing to talk about for 2 weeks, I'm sure this will get all kinds of pub and NFL will make some announcement.
Boston
Footballguy
The NFL is better off with BB and the Pats...whenever there is a villain the sport is better off...it just brings out raw emotions in fans...tennis hasn't been the same McEnroe retired...the Raiders back in their day always made things more interesting...the Pats were a loser organization for so long it's an absolute treat to have them despised like they are...years ago I tried to fight the hate but than realized it was a war that could not be won...that hate is far too powerful of a force...I urge my fellow Patriot fans to embrace the hate...it is a product of success...it's also far better than worrying about whether you're gonna end up with the first, fourth or eighth pick in the draft...and than drafting someone like Kenneth Sims or Eugene Chung...
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Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
They have released a picture of the New England football in question, looks fine to me:
https://www.google.com/search?q=flat+football&biw=1920&bih=955&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=IT-9VK7TDdHxggSP_YOoDQ&ved=0CEsQsAQ#imgdii=_&imgrc=HbM9vt7iR764UM%253A%3Bm7Sddj4TvOeFNM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fassets.nydailynews.com%252Fpolopoly_fs%252F1.1947093!%252Fimg%252FhttpImage%252Fimage.jpg_gen%252Fderivatives%252Farticle_970%252Ffootball-flat-web.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.nydailynews.com%252Fsports%252Ffootball%252Flupica-nfl-commissioner-ravens-shame-article-1.1947087%3B970%3B664
https://www.google.com/search?q=flat+football&biw=1920&bih=955&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=IT-9VK7TDdHxggSP_YOoDQ&ved=0CEsQsAQ#imgdii=_&imgrc=HbM9vt7iR764UM%253A%3Bm7Sddj4TvOeFNM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fassets.nydailynews.com%252Fpolopoly_fs%252F1.1947093!%252Fimg%252FhttpImage%252Fimage.jpg_gen%252Fderivatives%252Farticle_970%252Ffootball-flat-web.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.nydailynews.com%252Fsports%252Ffootball%252Flupica-nfl-commissioner-ravens-shame-article-1.1947087%3B970%3B664
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
Yes but just because they magically started winning games at the end of the season after losing on miraculous comebacks by their opponents all year doesn't mean they were tanking. They were just really unlucky until the end.
G
General Tso
Guest
The allegation was that the Patriots filmed the Rams practice. The Boson Globe ran the story before validating its sources. The story was proven to be false and the Globe subsequently ran a front page retraction - the only time in the history of the newspaper they've done that. Yet to this day there are idiots in forms like this, and on the NFL Network (Marshall Faulk) who continue to insinuate that the story was true.And even if the Pats recorded the in-game signal calling from the bench, that practice wasn't made illegal by the NFL until the start of the 2006 season, so AT WORST what the Pats did was illegal for the 2006 season and game 1 of the 2007 season. It's worth mentioning that Belichik has argued that he thought he was operating within the confines of the rules as written. And as we know, the NFL rules are written such that multiple interpretations are often possible (see the "process rule" in the Dez Bryant thread). Not defending the Belichik's interpretation, just providing additional context for those who actually want to understand the issue rather than troll away.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Making 4 Super Bowls, in a row, is nothing big...I mean teams do that all the time...WTF are you even saying right now? The BIlls couldnt say #### to how many teams that year. One.
You make it sound like the Jags and Pats are on par, over the past 10 years or something cause they both didnt accomplish anything. That's nonsense.
I'll take averaging like 12 wins per and having a 60% shot at a AFCCG all day and I'd be willing to say every other team in the league would say the same.
is this guy serious? I mean it sounds like sarcasm, it's clearly a sarcastic post.... but the way he ends it make it almost seem like he believes it.
G
General Tso
Guest
The Pats are so far in the heads of everyone it's ridiculous. What next, are we going to start accusing teams of cheating when they run a fake punt like Seattle did yesterday? It's hysterical. Football is based on misdirection. You run when the opponent thinks you will pass, you try to draw them off-sides with hard counts, you fake handoffs, you disguise blitzes... I don't think people realize how much of a whiny little girl they sound like when they even mention this kind of stuff after a loss. It's not a good look.I have also seen some people are insisting that what the Pats did will either be considered illegal after the rules committee addresses it in the offseason (or the process will be changed to give defenses a chance to change their scheme). However, the Pats did not invent a rule, the rule has been the same since the game was created. I am not sure that the league will change one of the basic fundamentals of the game. You can use whomever you want wherever you want. Deception is a time tested strategy, and sometimes it works out in your favor and sometimes it doesn't. If the defense is expecting it, having only 4 OL men in the game could get your QB obliterated. I hope (doubt?) they change anything, as the process as it stands now seems to be pretty clear and self-evident. You cover the players based on where they line up (not by the number they are wearing). The Ravens are mad because they caught with their pants down and had to try to save face by accusing NE of breaking the rules.Thanks. I actually missed that game because I was out to dinner for my son's birthday. I'd heard on the radio that the refs failed to do so and that's where the "controversy" lies. It was Mike Francesca who said so, and he's often wrong and I guess he was once again.The refs announced on the PA system who was eligible and who was ineligible, and from what I heard from people that went to the game, they even announced who had to be covered and who didn't at least on one of the plays.They have to announce when a player not wearing a receivers number (like an o-lineman) is eligible. Don't they need to do so when a player like Vereen lines up but ineligible?
bostonfred
Footballguy
Can anyone remember a team besides the patriots making it to the superbowl while another team's owner tampered with their players? These lovable underdog patriots are everything right with football.
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
Thank goodness removing balls, which seems to be a routine practice, is the big story today. I thought for sure we'd have to spend a few weeks discussing how NE was, once again, running it up. I suppose we'll know in a few days whether there's any merit to this story (I sure hope not) and then we can move on to running it up, anyway. 2 weeks is a long time.
Ultimately, I hope this isn't true because it would be an obnoxious choice to blatantly break the rules again. Overall, I'm not naive enough to expect professional sports (or any other billion dollar industry) to be the bastion of ethics and morality, but another "gate" would be intolerable.
Ultimately, I hope this isn't true because it would be an obnoxious choice to blatantly break the rules again. Overall, I'm not naive enough to expect professional sports (or any other billion dollar industry) to be the bastion of ethics and morality, but another "gate" would be intolerable.
Boston
Footballguy
I am at peace with my decision...years ago I was visited in my dreams by a hoodie...it had no face or body attached to it...just a hoodie with a pencil sticking out of it...the hoodie told me from this point on I must embrace the hate for I could never vanquish it...as the hoodie left me it said something I will always remember..."on to the next dream"...
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
thatguythere
Footballguy
Ball check before the super bowl. Everyone line up.
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
Also, this entire "NFL Investigating" line is nonsense. There's no "investigating" ball inflation after the fact. They either measured it and it was illegal or they didn't. I find it laughable that there's a connotation that the league is somehow unsure and needs more time to look into it, as though there's something useful to be gained by shipping the ball to NFL HQ for further testing.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
BB has got his opponents totally freaked out.
I had to laugh when Solder took that pass in from 20. Cheating again!
I had to laugh when Solder took that pass in from 20. Cheating again!
But But, it sounds more like they did something wrong if people call it an investigation!
I actually think if anything, this 'scandal' is giving The Patriots a better name/reputation.
It's only exposing the fact-less, angry anti-pats people for what they are. I think any neutral person towards this team will laugh this off and see how unreasonable some people are being, and side with the pats.
It's only exposing the fact-less, angry anti-pats people for what they are. I think any neutral person towards this team will laugh this off and see how unreasonable some people are being, and side with the pats.
Devine Intervention
Footballguy
The best part is that if they do find it that they did cheat then this SB goes to crap. So in their "dynasty" not one SB will be without an asterisk.
And what is even better is that they didn't even need it!! That makes me smile because its the arrogance of BB to cheat when its not needed and tarnish what was a good season.
You cant say they didn't cheat with spygate, you can argue its effect but they didn't get penalized for nothing. And if they deflated balls they cheated once again and you cant argue it.
So you Patriot fans will always have a losing argument because when you bring up all your success all anyone has to say is "asterisk". Good going BB
And what is even better is that they didn't even need it!! That makes me smile because its the arrogance of BB to cheat when its not needed and tarnish what was a good season.
You cant say they didn't cheat with spygate, you can argue its effect but they didn't get penalized for nothing. And if they deflated balls they cheated once again and you cant argue it.
So you Patriot fans will always have a losing argument because when you bring up all your success all anyone has to say is "asterisk". Good going BB
Thunderlips
Footballguy
You're talking about looking at it "In the now". When one looks back at the past 10 years of Patriots football....how can they not be seen a bit of dissapointment? They've had such a good record, home field a number of times, 12 win seasons, 6 AFC Championships and zero Super Bowl wins.
Throw it over to another sport...should the Braves' fans view their 14 NL East banners but 1 World Series as a satisfying accomplishment....or a bit of a let down??
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
My favorite part about this thread is NE fans trying to convince people that Super Bowls don't matter that much and constantly averaging 12 wins per season is a major accomplishment. Not that I disagree, but it's the exact opposite of everything NE fans ever argued in the Manning/Brady argument until their guy started falling into that category too.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Congrats. You can write in the asterisks in indelible black ink in your sports almanac that you keep on your bookshelf or night stand, as there are no asterisks in any official standings or list of league champions.
How about this. In my NFL hall of results, I consider any team that committed a penalty at any point during the season on their way to a SB title as having cheated. Cause, you know, they broke the rules. So in my house, all the titles from all the teams are tainted. THEY ARE ALL A BUNCH OF CHEATERS!!!!!! THEY MUST REPENT!!!!!!
Time-check. In the next few days there will be at least one story of teams doing this kind of thing in the past. Pats-lovers will then change their refrain from "Nothing happened" to "See, it's common."
THAT is the part of this that gets old.
As noted above, the bottom line is that the Pats don't need to pull this BS, and yet they do it anyway ... and their SB runs get tarnished. It makes their great coach look bush league, and makes the players look somehow needy. So, why do they keep doing things like this? They can win without doing it... Can't they?
THAT is the part of this that gets old.
As noted above, the bottom line is that the Pats don't need to pull this BS, and yet they do it anyway ... and their SB runs get tarnished. It makes their great coach look bush league, and makes the players look somehow needy. So, why do they keep doing things like this? They can win without doing it... Can't they?
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
oh no, not an * ....the horrror. Busting balls is pretty common place in the Northeast and I have a ton of friends that are fans of other teams. I don't think I've ever had an argument with any of them over Spygate, they might bring it up every once in a blue moon to which I will chuckle. The two losses to the Giants is probably brought up 100 times to every 1 time anyone IRL ever mentions Spygate. Now, I'm sure it does bother some Pats fans but it is only amusing to me and hasn't distracted one second from the enjoyment I've had following the team over the years.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
You're starting to change the argument. I'm not saying fans or their teams wouldnt be disappointed with the result, but that doesnt meant its not an accomplishment.
14 NL East banners is an amazing accomplishment. For almost a decade and a half they dominated that division--Thats an accomplishment IMO. Do they want more? Sure but that doesnt mean it isnt very impressive and rarely done
rockaction
Footballguy
