Patriots being investigated after Colts game (3 Viewers)

[NE_REVIVAL]

I know it looks bad, but I just don't believe brady knowingly did anything wrong.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/physics-professor-counters-deflate-gate-accusations-with-science-video/

 

[12punch]

some retired ref said he didn't use a gauge once in 20 years

it was linked about 5x -- just go through the thread or google it

and there was an article from some former ballboy -- maybe from teh bears that said something or other

 

[moleculo]

That wasn't helpful.

what more do you want?

The Patriots may or may not have deliberately taken air out of the footballs they used in last Sundays AFC Championship game against the Colts. But the footballs definitely went through the proper pregame protocol and passed inspection.

According to an NFL source with direct knowledge of the situation, referee Walt Anderson inspected all 24 of the Patriots footballs with a pressure gauge supplied by the league, as well as all 24 footballs from the Colts. All 48 footballs were found to be inflated within the allowable range of 12.5-13.5 pounds per square inch.

I want a link to the article or webpage where, as Run It Up mentions, a referee or former referee says it was routine for the pregame inspection to be done without a meter. Whether or not these balls were put on a meter before the game is the central point of this whole stinking mess. The league has used non-wiggleproof language in the one statement they've actually had the courage to release.If the Patriots bled the balls after they were tested (meter or not) then I'll have to say they've gone too far and they should be punished, and I'll have to think a lot less of them. I admire them and it will be painful to give up that admiration.

I want to be really darn sure before I write them off.

If you can't help me find that link, that's fine. But that's what I'm asking for, not another cowardly backdoor leak from an another unnamed source. (Which even at that has ambiguous language!) I have very, very little faith in the league right now.

well, the best I've seen is the Boston Globe article I linked earler, that says specifically that a meter was used pre-game. There was an older article that says some refs gave a good squeeze, and some refs actually broke out the meter, but at this point, that's irrelevant if what the Globe reports is true.

The Globe also says that "Anderson and the officiating crew are not allowed to comment publicly unless given express permission from the NFL, which they have not received," so I wouldn't expect to hear anything more concrete or definitive than an unnamed leak until the official report comes out, which isn't likely until after the Superbowl.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I know it looks bad, but I just don't believe brady knowingly did anything wrong.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/physics-professor-counters-deflate-gate-accusations-with-science-video/

of course you dont

 

[moleculo]

I know it looks bad, but I just don't believe brady knowingly did anything wrong.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/physics-professor-counters-deflate-gate-accusations-with-science-video/

nice.

The hypocrisy in this scandal is indicative of Roger Goodell’s tenure as NFL commissioner. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? The NFL wants the Patriots to be guilty because it’s become a mouth piece for the liberal agenda. (RELATED: NFL Hires Major Democrat To Head Up Deflate-Gate Witch Hunt)In Obama’s America, people don’t worry about their own success, just ruining things for other people when things don’t go their way. The Patriots easily beat the Colts. They deserve to be in the Super Bowl. Thank God physics came in to silence all the naysayers.

Science, 1. Goodell, 0.

first time I've ever seen anyone use hard science to knock down the "liberal agenda".

 

[TwinTurbo]

When this is all shown to be much ado about nothing, I expect nothing less than a full exoneration, public apologies, and additional picks for the inconvenience during superbowl preparation.

So do you also think that Pineda being suspended for using pine tar on balls against the Red Sox was also much ado about nothing?

 

[Lutherman2112]

The Patriots may or may not have deliberately taken air out of the footballs they used in last Sundays AFC Championship game against the Colts. But the footballs definitely went through the proper pregame protocol and passed inspection.



According to an NFL source with direct knowledge of the situation, referee Walt Anderson inspected all 24 of the Patriots footballs with a pressure gauge supplied by the league, as well as all 24 footballs from the Colts. All 48 footballs were found to be inflated within the allowable range of 12.5-13.5 pounds per square inch.

Exactly. Nowhere in there does it say that gauges were used pre-game. It's very possible that all 24 balls were inspected by gauges at halftime and after the game - after the issue was raised to the refs. As for "proper pregame protocol", we still don't know exactly what that is. There's a lot of speculation out there that in practice the refs sometimes do a cursory visual inspection.I don't know what the answer is, but it is very odd that the NFL or the media hasn't come out with a definitive statement on this.

That statement is definitive. We past the point of being obtuse about it some time ago. Now it's just getting rigronkulous. The NE balls lost 2 psi between check-in and half-time. It happened. It did not happen to the Indy balls. This goes into the category of things we know.

Whether aliens let the air out it, or a rogue Colts cheerleader, or Howie Mandel, or BB we don't know.

Again, has the 2psi drop been confirmed? Just the Mort report has claimed that and everybody has run with that number.

What color is the sky in your fantasyland?

 

[Old Smiley]

"Anderson and the officiating crew are not allowed to comment publicly unless given express permission from the NFL, which they have not received,"

And that doesn't bother you.

 

[shader]

Has the rogue ball boy been caught yet?

 

[moleculo]

"Anderson and the officiating crew are not allowed to comment publicly unless given express permission from the NFL, which they have not received,"

And that doesn't bother you.

It's pretty consistent with an organization that prefers to centrally control the public narrative. Sure, it bothers me but it doesn't surprise me.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

I do still hold out hope that the pre game balls were not checked with a gauge and Anderson is covering his ### since he know his career is over if he admits he didn't use a gauge. The difference between submitting under inflated balls and doctoring them afterward is night and day.

I think the rumors that the refs were tipped off ahead of time could be critical, if they were "tipped off" then I find it impossible to believe that the refs wouldn't use the gauges to check the pressure pre game. If they weren't tipped in advance then I think there is a real chance the refs blew the pre game check.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

I know it looks bad, but I just don't believe brady knowingly did anything wrong.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/physics-professor-counters-deflate-gate-accusations-with-science-video/

nice.

The hypocrisy in this scandal is indicative of Roger Goodell’s tenure as NFL commissioner. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? The NFL wants the Patriots to be guilty because it’s become a mouth piece for the liberal agenda. (RELATED: NFL Hires Major Democrat To Head Up Deflate-Gate Witch Hunt)

In Obama’s America, people don’t worry about their own success, just ruining things for other people when things don’t go their way. The Patriots easily beat the Colts. They deserve to be in the Super Bowl. Thank God physics came in to silence all the naysayers.

Science, 1. Goodell, 0.

first time I've ever seen anyone use hard science to knock down the "liberal agenda".

Rofl this thread and the Patsies are becoming more and more bizarre. Now, in the last few pages we've had tie-ins to Obama supporters and now the "liberal agenda". i guess "science" can be useful to those people when necessary after all. Too funny

 

[12punch]

I know it looks bad, but I just don't believe brady knowingly did anything wrong.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/physics-professor-counters-deflate-gate-accusations-with-science-video/

Only, it’s not just one man’s opinion. Following Naughton’s press release, The Boston Herald was contacted by a postdoctoral associate at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology — I hear they’re pretty good at that whole science thing — who corroborated the claim. The anonymous associate even sent in his own math that predicted a, “1.78 psi [decrease] by halftime if the balls were filled at room temperature.”

you guys outside new england don't know anything about the Massachusetts Institute of Technology but it's a pretty prestigious school

 

[shader]

A guy from the Boston globe just tweeted that the NFL just clarified that they refilled the Patriots balls at halftime and that the pats used their own balls in the 2nd half and not the colts.

 

[Lutherman2112]

"Anderson and the officiating crew are not allowed to comment publicly unless given express permission from the NFL, which they have not received,"

And that doesn't bother you.

Context is important:

According to an NFL source with direct knowledge of the situation, referee Walt Anderson inspected all 24 of the Patriots’ footballs with a pressure gauge supplied by the league, as well as all 24 footballs from the Colts. All 48 footballs were found to be inflated within the allowable range of 12.5-13.5 pounds per square inch.

Anderson and the officiating crew are not allowed to comment publicly unless given express permission from the NFL, which they have not received. The NFL has been investigating the matter since Monday.

The NFL released a statement Friday, saying, “Our office has been conducting an investigation as to whether the footballs used in last Sunday’s AFC Championship Game complied with the specifications that are set forth in the playing rules.

Doesn't bother me at all, as long as the ref talks later...you know, after the investigation.

 

[shader]

I do still hold out hope that the pre game balls were not checked with a gauge and Anderson is covering his ### since he know his career is over if he admits he didn't use a gauge. The difference between submitting under inflated balls and doctoring them afterward is night and day.

I think the rumors that the refs were tipped off ahead of time could be critical, if they were "tipped off" then I find it impossible to believe that the refs wouldn't use the gauges to check the pressure pre game. If they weren't tipped in advance then I think there is a real chance the refs blew the pre game check.

Or that the colts balls were never really checked after the initial inspection.

 

[The General]

I do still hold out hope that the pre game balls were not checked with a gauge and Anderson is covering his ### since he know his career is over if he admits he didn't use a gauge. The difference between submitting under inflated balls and doctoring them afterward is night and day.

I think the rumors that the refs were tipped off ahead of time could be critical, if they were "tipped off" then I find it impossible to believe that the refs wouldn't use the gauges to check the pressure pre game. If they weren't tipped in advance then I think there is a real chance the refs blew the pre game check.

Honest question: As a Pats fan if it is confirmed they used the gauge what would be your reaction?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I know it looks bad, but I just don't believe brady knowingly did anything wrong.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/physics-professor-counters-deflate-gate-accusations-with-science-video/

Only, it’s not just one man’s opinion. Following Naughton’s press release, The Boston Herald was contacted by a postdoctoral associate at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology — I hear they’re pretty good at that whole science thing — who corroborated the claim. The anonymous associate even sent in his own math that predicted a, “1.78 psi [decrease] by halftime if the balls were filled at room temperature.”

you guys outside new england don't know anything about the Massachusetts Institute of Technology but it's a pretty prestigious school

If they're literate maybe they can teach the rest of their city how to read.

 

[JohnnyU]

I know it looks bad, but I just don't believe brady knowingly did anything wrong.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/physics-professor-counters-deflate-gate-accusations-with-science-video/

Only, it’s not just one man’s opinion. Following Naughton’s press release, The Boston Herald was contacted by a postdoctoral associate at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology — I hear they’re pretty good at that whole science thing — who corroborated the claim. The anonymous associate even sent in his own math that predicted a, “1.78 psi [decrease] by halftime if the balls were filled at room temperature.”

you guys outside new england don't know anything about the Massachusetts Institute of Technology but it's a pretty prestigious school

I work with a guy that graduated from that school and I must admit his son is pretty smart. He wroked as an intern last year and come up with some pretty good stuff. However, I must say his dad, who graduated from MIT is pretty much meh.

 

[Anarchy99]

I do still hold out hope that the pre game balls were not checked with a gauge and Anderson is covering his ### since he know his career is over if he admits he didn't use a gauge. The difference between submitting under inflated balls and doctoring them afterward is night and day.

I think the rumors that the refs were tipped off ahead of time could be critical, if they were "tipped off" then I find it impossible to believe that the refs wouldn't use the gauges to check the pressure pre game. If they weren't tipped in advance then I think there is a real chance the refs blew the pre game check.

If you choose not to believe the Boston Globe, then sure, then hold out hope that the refs are at fault.

That being said, a counter argument could be made that the gauges have not been consistently utilized and the refs have been lax on letting in footballs that didn't meet the rule. Still not an excuse for altering the footballs, but might help minimize the damages.

 

[shader]

I know it looks bad, but I just don't believe brady knowingly did anything wrong.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/physics-professor-counters-deflate-gate-accusations-with-science-video/

Only, its not just one mans opinion. Following Naughtons press release, The Boston Herald was contacted by a postdoctoral associate at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology I hear theyre pretty good at that whole science thing who corroborated the claim. The anonymous associate even sent in his own math that predicted a, 1.78 psi [decrease] by halftime if the balls were filled at room temperature.

you guys outside new england don't know anything about the Massachusetts Institute of Technology but it's a pretty prestigious school

I haven't thought much about the weather thing...but if it's true that a ball would deflate by halftime, this could go bad for the league.

For instance, what if this happens in every single cold weather game, but the only reason the balls were measured is becUse the colts had the NFL ready to investigate the psi.

 

[moleculo]

I know it looks bad, but I just don't believe brady knowingly did anything wrong.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/physics-professor-counters-deflate-gate-accusations-with-science-video/

Only, its not just one mans opinion. Following Naughtons press release, The Boston Herald was contacted by a postdoctoral associate at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology I hear theyre pretty good at that whole science thing who corroborated the claim. The anonymous associate even sent in his own math that predicted a, 1.78 psi [decrease] by halftime if the balls were filled at room temperature.

you guys outside new england don't know anything about the Massachusetts Institute of Technology but it's a pretty prestigious school

I haven't thought much about the weather thing...but if it's true that a ball would deflate by halftime, this could go bad for the league.

For instance, what if this happens in every single cold weather game, but the only reason the balls were measured is becUse the colts had the NFL ready to investigate the psi.

weather alone cannot not explain a >2psi drop in pressure. Even the MIT guys would admit to that.

 

[12punch]

I do still hold out hope that the pre game balls were not checked with a gauge and Anderson is covering his ### since he know his career is over if he admits he didn't use a gauge. The difference between submitting under inflated balls and doctoring them afterward is night and day.

I think the rumors that the refs were tipped off ahead of time could be critical, if they were "tipped off" then I find it impossible to believe that the refs wouldn't use the gauges to check the pressure pre game. If they weren't tipped in advance then I think there is a real chance the refs blew the pre game check.

Honest question: As a Pats fan if it is confirmed they used the gauge what would be your reaction?

wgaf

 

[Steelers4Life]

I know it looks bad, but I just don't believe brady knowingly did anything wrong.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/physics-professor-counters-deflate-gate-accusations-with-science-video/

Only, its not just one mans opinion. Following Naughtons press release, The Boston Herald was contacted by a postdoctoral associate at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology I hear theyre pretty good at that whole science thing who corroborated the claim. The anonymous associate even sent in his own math that predicted a, 1.78 psi [decrease] by halftime if the balls were filled at room temperature.

you guys outside new england don't know anything about the Massachusetts Institute of Technology but it's a pretty prestigious school

I haven't thought much about the weather thing...but if it's true that a ball would deflate by halftime, this could go bad for the league.

For instance, what if this happens in every single cold weather game, but the only reason the balls were measured is becUse the colts had the NFL ready to investigate the psi.

Might hold water if both teams' balls were affected by the weather.

But if the reports are true, somehow, only the Patriots' balls got deflated by the weather. The Colts' balls stayed legal. And they didn't deflate any farther in the second half - they were still legal at the end of the game.

That basically destroys any chance of blaming it on the temperature.

 

[The General]

I do still hold out hope that the pre game balls were not checked with a gauge and Anderson is covering his ### since he know his career is over if he admits he didn't use a gauge. The difference between submitting under inflated balls and doctoring them afterward is night and day.

I think the rumors that the refs were tipped off ahead of time could be critical, if they were "tipped off" then I find it impossible to believe that the refs wouldn't use the gauges to check the pressure pre game. If they weren't tipped in advance then I think there is a real chance the refs blew the pre game check.

Honest question: As a Pats fan if it is confirmed they used the gauge what would be your reaction?

wgaf

You a Pats fan?

 

[12punch]

I know it looks bad, but I just don't believe brady knowingly did anything wrong.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/physics-professor-counters-deflate-gate-accusations-with-science-video/

Only, its not just one mans opinion. Following Naughtons press release, The Boston Herald was contacted by a postdoctoral associate at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology I hear theyre pretty good at that whole science thing who corroborated the claim. The anonymous associate even sent in his own math that predicted a, 1.78 psi [decrease] by halftime if the balls were filled at room temperature.

you guys outside new england don't know anything about the Massachusetts Institute of Technology but it's a pretty prestigious school

I haven't thought much about the weather thing...but if it's true that a ball would deflate by halftime, this could go bad for the league.

For instance, what if this happens in every single cold weather game, but the only reason the balls were measured is becUse the colts had the NFL ready to investigate the psi.

weather alone cannot not explain a >2psi drop in pressure. Even the MIT guys would admit to that.

yeah --- you got us on that

only 1.78

somebody's gonna have to do some creative explaining to account for the missing .22 psi

 

[12punch]

I do still hold out hope that the pre game balls were not checked with a gauge and Anderson is covering his ### since he know his career is over if he admits he didn't use a gauge. The difference between submitting under inflated balls and doctoring them afterward is night and day.

I think the rumors that the refs were tipped off ahead of time could be critical, if they were "tipped off" then I find it impossible to believe that the refs wouldn't use the gauges to check the pressure pre game. If they weren't tipped in advance then I think there is a real chance the refs blew the pre game check.

Honest question: As a Pats fan if it is confirmed they used the gauge what would be your reaction?

wgaf

You a Pats fan?

did you just ask pats fans?

do I need 2 ####### forms of id and a membership card?

 

[The General]

I do still hold out hope that the pre game balls were not checked with a gauge and Anderson is covering his ### since he know his career is over if he admits he didn't use a gauge. The difference between submitting under inflated balls and doctoring them afterward is night and day.

I think the rumors that the refs were tipped off ahead of time could be critical, if they were "tipped off" then I find it impossible to believe that the refs wouldn't use the gauges to check the pressure pre game. If they weren't tipped in advance then I think there is a real chance the refs blew the pre game check.

Honest question: As a Pats fan if it is confirmed they used the gauge what would be your reaction?

wgaf

You a Pats fan?

did you just ask pats fans?

do I need 2 ####### forms of id and a membership card?

I was asking the guy who started his post saying "I still do hold out hope" which is pretty specific phrasing and you jumped in with your ####.

 

[Anarchy99]

The only explanation for those hoping for a gauge/inspection/weather explanation is that the Colts footballs started out on the highest side of the range and the Patriots were on the lowest side of the range. The Pats could also try to argue that they inserted hot air into the balls instead of room temperature air, but that seems far fetched. But that still would not explain away all of the difference.

And not being a science geek, I am not sure if testing the Colts balls after they tested NE's (halftime and post game) would raise the pressure enough that it appeared that Indy's footballs did not lose pressure when they could have. Just spit balling . . .

 

[shader]

I know it looks bad, but I just don't believe brady knowingly did anything wrong.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/physics-professor-counters-deflate-gate-accusations-with-science-video/

Only, its not just one mans opinion. Following Naughtons press release, The Boston Herald was contacted by a postdoctoral associate at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology I hear theyre pretty good at that whole science thing who corroborated the claim. The anonymous associate even sent in his own math that predicted a, 1.78 psi [decrease] by halftime if the balls were filled at room temperature.

you guys outside new england don't know anything about the Massachusetts Institute of Technology but it's a pretty prestigious school

I haven't thought much about the weather thing...but if it's true that a ball would deflate by halftime, this could go bad for the league.For instance, what if this happens in every single cold weather game, but the only reason the balls were measured is becUse the colts had the NFL ready to investigate the psi.

Might hold water if both teams' balls were affected by the weather.But if the reports are true, somehow, only the Patriots' balls got deflated by the weather. The Colts' balls stayed legal. And they didn't deflate any farther in the second half - they were still legal at the end of the game.

That basically destroys any chance of blaming it on the temperature.

this would be quite easy to prove with some experiments. I have a hard time believing that officials measure 48 balls individually two hours before the game. I have an even harder time believing that they then measure the balls again when the game is over.

 

[shader]

The only explanation for those hoping for a gauge/inspection/weather explanation is that the Colts footballs started out on the highest side of the range and the Patriots were on the lowest side of the range. The Pats could also try to argue that they inserted hot air into the balls instead of room temperature air, but that seems far fetched. But that still would not explain away all of the difference.

And not being a science geek, I am not sure if testing the Colts balls after they tested NE's (halftime and post game) would raise the pressure enough that it appeared that Indy's footballs did not lose pressure when they could have. Just spit balling . . .

Or maybe they never tested the colts at halftime....

 

[Old Smiley]

I know it looks bad, but I just don't believe brady knowingly did anything wrong.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/physics-professor-counters-deflate-gate-accusations-with-science-video/

Only, its not just one mans opinion. Following Naughtons press release, The Boston Herald was contacted by a postdoctoral associate at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology I hear theyre pretty good at that whole science thing who corroborated the claim. The anonymous associate even sent in his own math that predicted a, 1.78 psi [decrease] by halftime if the balls were filled at room temperature.

you guys outside new england don't know anything about the Massachusetts Institute of Technology but it's a pretty prestigious school

I haven't thought much about the weather thing...but if it's true that a ball would deflate by halftime, this could go bad for the league.

For instance, what if this happens in every single cold weather game, but the only reason the balls were measured is becUse the colts had the NFL ready to investigate the psi.

weather alone cannot not explain a >2psi drop in pressure. Even the MIT guys would admit to that.

The MIT guy submits a 1.78 psi drop. I'm guessing these gauges didn't come from NASA.

BTW: Re: the Daily Caller Article. It's like you're there at the exact moment his meds wore off. But still...

 

[Steelers4Life]

The only explanation for those hoping for a gauge/inspection/weather explanation is that the Colts footballs started out on the highest side of the range and the Patriots were on the lowest side of the range. The Pats could also try to argue that they inserted hot air into the balls instead of room temperature air, but that seems far fetched. But that still would not explain away all of the difference.

And not being a science geek, I am not sure if testing the Colts balls after they tested NE's (halftime and post game) would raise the pressure enough that it appeared that Indy's footballs did not lose pressure when they could have. Just spit balling . . .

Even if the Pats started out at 12.5 and the Colts started out at 13.5, it would stand to reason that if the balls were all affected by the same weather, they'd all lose similar amounts of pressure.

If the Pats' balls all lost 2+ PSI, anything more than a drop of 1 would also make the Colts' balls illegal too. But they weren't.

Trying to justify how ONLY the Patriots' balls got deflated is pointless. The only question is who did it, when they did it, how they did it, and if anything can or will be proven and made public.

And when you have quarterback who's that detail oriented about everything, has thrown a football millions of times, and knows exactly how he likes his footballs say he didn't notice any difference, it reeks of being a lie. He's been called out by current and former players and coaches about it, and if he's lying, there's probably a reason.

 

[shader]

The 1.78 psi drop from the guy at MIT is quite interesting to me.

Throw everything that we know out and focus on that.

If it is true that a ball will lose 1.5-2 psi in a couple hours in the cold, that flips the entire thing on it's head and turns it from an embarrassment for the Pats to an embarrassment for the NFL.

I have no idea if it's true, but it is something worth looking into. Has anyone actually tested this? If not, I wonder why? I might just make a youtube video tomorrow.

 

[shader]

The only explanation for those hoping for a gauge/inspection/weather explanation is that the Colts footballs started out on the highest side of the range and the Patriots were on the lowest side of the range. The Pats could also try to argue that they inserted hot air into the balls instead of room temperature air, but that seems far fetched. But that still would not explain away all of the difference.

And not being a science geek, I am not sure if testing the Colts balls after they tested NE's (halftime and post game) would raise the pressure enough that it appeared that Indy's footballs did not lose pressure when they could have. Just spit balling . . .

Even if the Pats started out at 12.5 and the Colts started out at 13.5, it would stand to reason that if the balls were all affected by the same weather, they'd all lose similar amounts of pressure.

If the Pats' balls all lost 2+ PSI, anything more than a drop of 1 would also make the Colts' balls illegal too. But they weren't.

Trying to justify how ONLY the Patriots' balls got deflated is pointless. The only question is who did it, when they did it, how they did it, and if anything can or will be proven and made public.

And when you have quarterback who's that detail oriented about everything, has thrown a football millions of times, and knows exactly how he likes his footballs say he didn't notice any difference, it reeks of being a lie. He's been called out by current and former players and coaches about it, and if he's lying, there's probably a reason.

Or they never really tested the Colts balls, as the Pats balls were the subject of investigation due to the Colts being the ones that warned the NFL about it.

 

[Steelers4Life]

The 1.78 psi drop from the guy at MIT is quite interesting to me.

Throw everything that we know out and focus on that.

If it is true that a ball will lose 1.5-2 psi in a couple hours in the cold, that flips the entire thing on it's head and turns it from an embarrassment for the Pats to an embarrassment for the NFL.

I have no idea if it's true, but it is something worth looking into. Has anyone actually tested this? If not, I wonder why? I might just make a youtube video tomorrow.

Again, it makes no difference.

I can't find the report right now, but it was reported (by Peter King I believe), that because of these concerns, the balls were tested both at halftime and after the game too.

The Colts balls weren't deflated at halftime, and they weren't deflated after the game, either. Only the Patriots' balls were when they were tested at halftime.

 

[Old Smiley]

Here'a stupid little derail: What about all this back and forth between the Colts' sidelines and the front office people. Aren't the Browns in dutch for that right now?

 

[12punch]

The only explanation for those hoping for a gauge/inspection/weather explanation is that the Colts footballs started out on the highest side of the range and the Patriots were on the lowest side of the range. The Pats could also try to argue that they inserted hot air into the balls instead of room temperature air, but that seems far fetched. But that still would not explain away all of the difference.

And not being a science geek, I am not sure if testing the Colts balls after they tested NE's (halftime and post game) would raise the pressure enough that it appeared that Indy's footballs did not lose pressure when they could have. Just spit balling . . .

we don't have any kind of definitive info about anything, unless you count 60 pages of jibberjabber, but if balls change temp they will change psi a bit --- that's not really a debate.

maybe it's just 1 psi, and there's some kind of 1 psi discrepency, or whatever, but to concern yourself with that kind of petty bs would be 100% scientifically proven pure troll.

all these people crying about the pats beating their asses like peterson's kid are the exact same crowd with ####### shrines of players in their bedroom who were doing everything and anything they could think of to win 60 yrs ago.

butkus is a nat'l hero for trying to cripple guys because it happened a long time ago --- anybody with an incidental head graze today deserves a lifetime ban due to overloading internet servers with outrage.

over the course of a season there might be 10 and 90 degree weather games on the extreme ends that will result in something close to a 5 psi swing in variance.

there's a built in 1 psi range, and after what rodgers said, I have to assume there's some ball fudging going on, which we'll very conservatively call +/- 1 psi.

all said, that's maybe a 7-8 psi variance if we collected every ball used during a season and nobody has ever said a word about it because, in conclusion............

wgaf

anybody complaining about this is just trolling the board or really in need of maybe just 10% of a life.

maybe we can get seattle dq'd from the sb if we find out their socks are an inch too long

 

[Steelers4Life]

Found it. From Peter King's MMBQ article today... http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/23/deflategate-patriots-super-bowl-xlix/

This is significant, because it takes weather-as-a-factor out of the possible reasons why New England’s footballs could have lost air while the balls on Indianapolis’ sidelines would have stayed fully inflated. I am told reliably that:

• The 12 footballs used in the first half for New England, and the 12 footballs used by the Colts, all left the officials’ locker room before the game at the prescribed pressure level of between 12.5 pounds per square inch and 13.5 psi.

• All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge at halftime. I am told either 11 or 12 of New England’s footballs (ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reported it was 11, and I hear it could have been all 12) had at least two pounds less pressure in them. All 12 Indianapolis footballs were at the prescribed level.

• All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge after the game. All 24 checked at the correct pressure—which is one of the last pieces of the puzzle the league needed to determine with certainty that something fishy happened with the Patriots footballs, because the Colts’ balls stayed correctly inflated for the nearly four hours. There had been reports quoting atmospheric experts that cold weather could deflate footballs. But if the Patriots’ balls were all low, and the Colts’ balls all legit, that quashes that theory.

The conclusion: There is little doubt the New England footballs were tampered with by a human.

 

[12punch]

this would be quite easy to prove with some experiments. I have a hard time believing that officials measure 48 balls individually two hours before the game. I have an even harder time believing that they then measure the balls again when the game is over.

yeah, I posted a link to a video of an experiment already and it was very consistent with all the math guys --- think it was 1.4 psi lost over maybe 24 degrees(?)

the real problem with all this nonsense is nobody has any idea what any of the reading were and where all these measurements are being taken

and anyway wgaf

 

[shader]

The 1.78 psi drop from the guy at MIT is quite interesting to me.

Throw everything that we know out and focus on that.

If it is true that a ball will lose 1.5-2 psi in a couple hours in the cold, that flips the entire thing on it's head and turns it from an embarrassment for the Pats to an embarrassment for the NFL.

I have no idea if it's true, but it is something worth looking into. Has anyone actually tested this? If not, I wonder why? I might just make a youtube video tomorrow.

Again, it makes no difference.

I can't find the report right now, but it was reported (by Peter King I believe), that because of these concerns, the balls were tested both at halftime and after the game too.

The Colts balls weren't deflated at halftime, and they weren't deflated after the game, either. Only the Patriots' balls were when they were tested at halftime.

And I'm telling you it makes all the difference in the world. If footballs deflate almost 2 psi when you take them out into cold weather, than this entire story is meaningless, regardless of what the NFL says happened, or what their supposed testing uncovered.

Now please understand, I have no idea if footballs deflate or not. No idea at all. I'm just saying that if what the MIT guys is saying is actually true, this whole debate is over.

 

[12punch]

Here'a stupid little derail: What about all this back and forth between the Colts' sidelines and the front office people. Aren't the Browns in dutch for that right now?

yeah, go bump that thread -- we got a ways to go to go if we want to catch this 64 page monstrosity

 

[Steelers4Life]

The 1.78 psi drop from the guy at MIT is quite interesting to me.

Throw everything that we know out and focus on that.

If it is true that a ball will lose 1.5-2 psi in a couple hours in the cold, that flips the entire thing on it's head and turns it from an embarrassment for the Pats to an embarrassment for the NFL.

I have no idea if it's true, but it is something worth looking into. Has anyone actually tested this? If not, I wonder why? I might just make a youtube video tomorrow.

Again, it makes no difference.

I can't find the report right now, but it was reported (by Peter King I believe), that because of these concerns, the balls were tested both at halftime and after the game too.

The Colts balls weren't deflated at halftime, and they weren't deflated after the game, either. Only the Patriots' balls were when they were tested at halftime.

And I'm telling you it makes all the difference in the world. If footballs deflate almost 2 psi when you take them out into cold weather, than this entire story is meaningless, regardless of what the NFL says happened, or what their supposed testing uncovered.

Now please understand, I have no idea if footballs deflate or not. No idea at all. I'm just saying that if what the MIT guys is saying is actually true, this whole debate is over.

Again, read my previous post from Peter King's article.

If it was weather related, the Colts' balls would've been affected too. But they ALL were tested at halftime and after the game. And the only balls found to be illegal (by more than 2 PSI) were the Patriots' balls at halftime. None of the balls deflated at all over the entire 2nd half.

If the Pats' balls were deflated and the Colts' balls weren't, it wasn't because of the weather.

And that's why all these science experiments are pointless.

 

[shader]

this would be quite easy to prove with some experiments. I have a hard time believing that officials measure 48 balls individually two hours before the game. I have an even harder time believing that they then measure the balls again when the game is over.

yeah, I posted a link to a video of an experiment already and it was very consistent with all the math guys --- think it was 1.4 psi lost over maybe 24 degrees(?)

the real problem with all this nonsense is nobody has any idea what any of the reading were and where all these measurements are being taken

and anyway wgaf

well there you go. I'm telling you the Patriots need to play hardball here, if this is true. If I'm Robert Kraft, I do this tomorrow.

I take 20 balls and fill them to 12.5 psi inside. Then I take them into the cold for two hours. If they deflate 2psi, I forward the results to the NFL, tell them to take their investigation and shove it, and fly my team to Arizona. Then if the league tells them "well we measured the Colts balls and they didn't show any differences", I'd say "prove it".

I think people are missing the point. The point in this weather thing is really simple. Do footballs deflate or not? If they do, there is no story. If they don't, there is a story. If you take 1,000,000 footballs and they all deflate, are people still going to hold onto the "presumed fact" that the Colts footballs didn't deflate?

Either they deflate naturally...or they don't.

 

[General Tso]

That wasn't helpful.

what more do you want?

The Patriots may or may not have deliberately taken air out of the footballs they used in last Sundays AFC Championship game against the Colts. But the footballs definitely went through the proper pregame protocol and passed inspection.

According to an NFL source with direct knowledge of the situation, referee Walt Anderson inspected all 24 of the Patriots footballs with a pressure gauge supplied by the league, as well as all 24 footballs from the Colts. All 48 footballs were found to be inflated within the allowable range of 12.5-13.5 pounds per square inch.

I want a link to the article or webpage where, as Run It Up mentions, a referee or former referee says it was routine for the pregame inspection to be done without a meter. Whether or not these balls were put on a meter before the game is the central point of this whole stinking mess. The league has used non-wiggleproof language in the one statement they've actually had the courage to release.If the Patriots bled the balls after they were tested (meter or not) then I'll have to say they've gone too far and they should be punished, and I'll have to think a lot less of them. I admire them and it will be painful to give up that admiration.

I want to be really darn sure before I write them off.

If you can't help me find that link, that's fine. But that's what I'm asking for, not another cowardly backdoor leak from an another unnamed source. (Which even at that has ambiguous language!) I have very, very little faith in the league right now.

well, the best I've seen is the Boston Globe article I linked earler, that says specifically that a meter was used pre-game. There was an older article that says some refs gave a good squeeze, and some refs actually broke out the meter, but at this point, that's irrelevant if what the Globe reports is true.The Globe also says that "Anderson and the officiating crew are not allowed to comment publicly unless given express permission from the NFL, which they have not received," so I wouldn't expect to hear anything more concrete or definitive than an unnamed leak until the official report comes out, which isn't likely until after the Superbowl.

Dude - for the last ####### time it says nowhere in that article that a gauge was used pre-game. Learn to ####### read. It says that all 24 balls were tested with a guage, but it does not say when. It very well could have been at halftime only - after someone complained of a ball being under inflated.

 

[12punch]

Found it. From Peter King's MMBQ article today... http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/23/deflategate-patriots-super-bowl-xlix/

This is significant, because it takes weather-as-a-factor out of the possible reasons why New England’s footballs could have lost air while the balls on Indianapolis’ sidelines would have stayed fully inflated. I am told reliably that:

• The 12 footballs used in the first half for New England, and the 12 footballs used by the Colts, all left the officials’ locker room before the game at the prescribed pressure level of between 12.5 pounds per square inch and 13.5 psi.

• All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge at halftime. I am told either 11 or 12 of New England’s footballs (ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reported it was 11, and I hear it could have been all 12) had at least two pounds less pressure in them. All 12 Indianapolis footballs were at the prescribed level.

• All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge after the game. All 24 checked at the correct pressure—which is one of the last pieces of the puzzle the league needed to determine with certainty that something fishy happened with the Patriots footballs, because the Colts’ balls stayed correctly inflated for the nearly four hours. There had been reports quoting atmospheric experts that cold weather could deflate footballs. But if the Patriots’ balls were all low, and the Colts’ balls all legit, that quashes that theory.

The conclusion: There is little doubt the New England footballs were tampered with by a human.

looool peter king just quashed the theory of thermodynamics

maybe witchcraft at work -- they aren't far from salem

 

[shader]

The 1.78 psi drop from the guy at MIT is quite interesting to me.

Throw everything that we know out and focus on that.

If it is true that a ball will lose 1.5-2 psi in a couple hours in the cold, that flips the entire thing on it's head and turns it from an embarrassment for the Pats to an embarrassment for the NFL.

I have no idea if it's true, but it is something worth looking into. Has anyone actually tested this? If not, I wonder why? I might just make a youtube video tomorrow.

Again, it makes no difference.

I can't find the report right now, but it was reported (by Peter King I believe), that because of these concerns, the balls were tested both at halftime and after the game too.

The Colts balls weren't deflated at halftime, and they weren't deflated after the game, either. Only the Patriots' balls were when they were tested at halftime.

And I'm telling you it makes all the difference in the world. If footballs deflate almost 2 psi when you take them out into cold weather, than this entire story is meaningless, regardless of what the NFL says happened, or what their supposed testing uncovered.

Now please understand, I have no idea if footballs deflate or not. No idea at all. I'm just saying that if what the MIT guys is saying is actually true, this whole debate is over.

Again, read my previous post from Peter King's article.

If it was weather related, the Colts' balls would've been affected too. But they ALL were tested at halftime and after the game. And the only balls found to be illegal (by more than 2 PSI) were the Patriots' balls at halftime. None of the balls deflated at all over the entire 2nd half.

If the Pats' balls were deflated and the Colts' balls weren't, it wasn't because of the weather.

And that's why all these science experiments are pointless.

Completely irrelevant

 

[moleculo]

The 1.78 psi drop from the guy at MIT is quite interesting to me.

Throw everything that we know out and focus on that.

If it is true that a ball will lose 1.5-2 psi in a couple hours in the cold, that flips the entire thing on it's head and turns it from an embarrassment for the Pats to an embarrassment for the NFL.

I have no idea if it's true, but it is something worth looking into. Has anyone actually tested this? If not, I wonder why? I might just make a youtube video tomorrow.

the 1.78 number comes from an anonymous source, so feel free to edify that as you wish.

Per a simple calculation based on the ideal gas law, a starting temp of 68 dF and starting pressure of 12.5 psi and and ending temp of 46 dF gives you a pressure drop of 1.1 psi. The 1.78 number likely requires some assumptions: maybe a higher starting temp (i.e. assuming the balls were initially measured at a higher temperature), a lower ending temperature (assuming a larger temperature drop than was actually recorded), or some other odd assumptions like assuming the air inside the ball was abnormally moist.

The chair of the physics department justified a 2 psi drop by assuming the balls were filled and measured at 80 dF, and then checked at 40 dF to get to 2 psi drop. A couple questions: (1) does anyone in the Boston area routinely keep their air temp at 80 dF this time of year? and (2) per accuweather, temps at the end of the game were in the high 40's. If you cheat the temps at both ends, you can approach the 2 psi, but we'd rather not cheat, right?

Anyways, this whole temp business assumes that when the balls were measured, they were cold. If the refs brought them inside to measure, you would not see nearly as dramatic of a temp drop as this. I believe this is what happened because none of the Colts balls fell out of specification.

Assume the colts balls started at 13.5 psi. We know they measured in spec at half-time, and so their pressure drop was less than 1 psi.

We still have at least 1 psi unaccounted for with the Patriots balls.

 

[12punch]

Now please understand, I have no idea if footballs deflate or not. No idea at all. I'm just saying that if what the MIT guys is saying is actually true, this whole debate is over.
.

no offense or anything, but fyi, there's already been about 60 pages of what 'the mit guy said'

 

[General Tso]

I do still hold out hope that the pre game balls were not checked with a gauge and Anderson is covering his ### since he know his career is over if he admits he didn't use a gauge. The difference between submitting under inflated balls and doctoring them afterward is night and day.

I think the rumors that the refs were tipped off ahead of time could be critical, if they were "tipped off" then I find it impossible to believe that the refs wouldn't use the gauges to check the pressure pre game. If they weren't tipped in advance then I think there is a real chance the refs blew the pre game check.

If you choose not to believe the Boston Globe, then sure, then hold out hope that the refs are at fault.That being said, a counter argument could be made that the gauges have not been consistently utilized and the refs have been lax on letting in footballs that didn't meet the rule. Still not an excuse for altering the footballs, but might help minimize the damages.

If gauges weren't used pregame, then the obvious answer here is that the balls weren't tampered with, they were just submitted for inspection below spec. And it would be the exact same thing that Aaron Rodgers has admitted doing (only above spec).