Patriots being investigated after Colts game (1 Viewer)

[Dr. Octopus]

I've said all along that this isn't all that huge of a deal, but I'm loving how Patriot fans will go down with the ship until the bitter end. I admire their loyalty.

Bill Belichick could shoot the Pope at midfield of a sold out Gillette Stadium in front of a national TV audience and they'd all claim it wasn't him...

...Or they'd say "every team shoots the pope, so why is it such a big deal when the Pats do it, haters?"

Do you really think any fan bases are different? If so you're delusional.

Yes, I'm delusional.

So some fan bases are all that's good and right. I'm sure your city is at the top of the list. And some are evil and horrible?

I didn't say anything even close to that.

FWIW, pretty much exactly what u said\implied

If some one actually thinks I called Pats fans evil and horrible, than I apologize. That wasn't was I was trying to say at all. I'm not sure why it would be interpreted that way, but it was meant to be a joke about blind loyalty. No popes were actually killed.

 

[moleculo]

That wasn't helpful.

what more do you want?

The Patriots may or may not have deliberately taken air out of the footballs they used in last Sundays AFC Championship game against the Colts. But the footballs definitely went through the proper pregame protocol and passed inspection.

According to an NFL source with direct knowledge of the situation, referee Walt Anderson inspected all 24 of the Patriots footballs with a pressure gauge supplied by the league, as well as all 24 footballs from the Colts. All 48 footballs were found to be inflated within the allowable range of 12.5-13.5 pounds per square inch.

I want a link to the article or webpage where, as Run It Up mentions, a referee or former referee says it was routine for the pregame inspection to be done without a meter. Whether or not these balls were put on a meter before the game is the central point of this whole stinking mess. The league has used non-wiggleproof language in the one statement they've actually had the courage to release.If the Patriots bled the balls after they were tested (meter or not) then I'll have to say they've gone too far and they should be punished, and I'll have to think a lot less of them. I admire them and it will be painful to give up that admiration.

I want to be really darn sure before I write them off.

If you can't help me find that link, that's fine. But that's what I'm asking for, not another cowardly backdoor leak from an another unnamed source. (Which even at that has ambiguous language!) I have very, very little faith in the league right now.

well, the best I've seen is the Boston Globe article I linked earler, that says specifically that a meter was used pre-game. There was an older article that says some refs gave a good squeeze, and some refs actually broke out the meter, but at this point, that's irrelevant if what the Globe reports is true.The Globe also says that "Anderson and the officiating crew are not allowed to comment publicly unless given express permission from the NFL, which they have not received," so I wouldn't expect to hear anything more concrete or definitive than an unnamed leak until the official report comes out, which isn't likely until after the Superbowl.

Dude - for the last ####### time it says nowhere in that article that a gauge was used pre-game. Learn to ####### read. It says that all 24 balls were tested with a guage, but it does not say when. It very well could have been at halftime only - after someone complained of a ball being under inflated.

wow.

Please tell me how you interpret the following:

The Patriots may or may not have deliberately taken air out of the footballs they used in last Sunday’s AFC Championship game against the Colts. But the footballs definitely went through the proper pregame protocol and passed inspection.According to an NFL source with direct knowledge of the situation, referee Walt Anderson inspected all 24 of the Patriots’ footballs with a pressure gauge supplied by the league, as well as all 24 footballs from the Colts. All 48 footballs were found to be inflated within the allowable range of 12.5-13.5 pounds per square inch.

 

[The General]

we don't have any kind of definitive info about anything, unless you count 60 pages of jibberjabber, but if balls change temp they will change psi a bit --- that's not really a debate.

maybe it's just 1 psi, and there's some kind of 1 psi discrepency, or whatever, but to concern yourself with that kind of petty bs would be 100% scientifically proven pure troll.

all these people crying about the pats beating their asses like peterson's kid are the exact same crowd with ####### shrines of players in their bedroom who were doing everything and anything they could think of to win 60 yrs ago.

butkus is a nat'l hero for trying to cripple guys because it happened a long time ago --- anybody with an incidental head graze today deserves a lifetime ban due to overloading internet servers with outrage.

over the course of a season there might be 10 and 90 degree weather games on the extreme ends that will result in something close to a 5 psi swing in variance.

there's a built in 1 psi range, and after what rodgers said, I have to assume there's some ball fudging going on, which we'll very conservatively call +/- 1 psi.

all said, that's maybe a 7-8 psi variance if we collected every ball used during a season and nobody has ever said a word about it because, in conclusion............

wgaf

anybody complaining about this is just trolling the board or really in need of maybe just 10% of a life.

maybe we can get seattle dq'd from the sb if we find out their socks are an inch too long

"We don't have definitive info you" should have just stopped there. The rest is a bunch of complaining, hypothetical horse#### which is funny because that seems to be what you are complaining about.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

The only explanation for those hoping for a gauge/inspection/weather explanation is that the Colts footballs started out on the highest side of the range and the Patriots were on the lowest side of the range. The Pats could also try to argue that they inserted hot air into the balls instead of room temperature air, but that seems far fetched. But that still would not explain away all of the difference.

And not being a science geek, I am not sure if testing the Colts balls after they tested NE's (halftime and post game) would raise the pressure enough that it appeared that Indy's footballs did not lose pressure when they could have. Just spit balling . . .

we don't have any kind of definitive info about anything, unless you count 60 pages of jibberjabber, but if balls change temp they will change psi a bit --- that's not really a debate.

maybe it's just 1 psi, and there's some kind of 1 psi discrepency, or whatever, but to concern yourself with that kind of petty bs would be 100% scientifically proven pure troll.

all these people crying about the pats beating their asses like peterson's kid are the exact same crowd with ####### shrines of players in their bedroom who were doing everything and anything they could think of to win 60 yrs ago.

butkus is a nat'l hero for trying to cripple guys because it happened a long time ago --- anybody with an incidental head graze today deserves a lifetime ban due to overloading internet servers with outrage.

over the course of a season there might be 10 and 90 degree weather games on the extreme ends that will result in something close to a 5 psi swing in variance.

there's a built in 1 psi range, and after what rodgers said, I have to assume there's some ball fudging going on, which we'll very conservatively call +/- 1 psi.

all said, that's maybe a 7-8 psi variance if we collected every ball used during a season and nobody has ever said a word about it because, in conclusion............

wgaf

anybody complaining about this is just trolling the board or really in need of maybe just 10% of a life.

maybe we can get seattle dq'd from the sb if we find out their socks are an inch too long

Kool aid Larry is pure gold. Calling others trolls-love it. You're one of the most obnoxious people I've run across. "Beating their ### like Peterson's kid"? Niiiiiice.

Learn to write dude because most of what you write is barely comprehensible. Some punctuation and capitalization would help too.

 

[shader]

Now please understand, I have no idea if footballs deflate or not. No idea at all. I'm just saying that if what the MIT guys is saying is actually true, this whole debate is over.
.

no offense or anything, but fyi, there's already been about 60 pages of what 'the mit guy said'

Yeah I never really gave it much credence, because "supposedly" the Colts balls were all measured.

Call it a "late Friday night epiphany", but I realized that either balls will or won't deflate. If they do deflate, than there is no controversy here and the Pats need to speak up and tell the NFL to shove it in the absence of actual proof.

 

[Steelers4Life]

The 1.78 psi drop from the guy at MIT is quite interesting to me.

Throw everything that we know out and focus on that.

If it is true that a ball will lose 1.5-2 psi in a couple hours in the cold, that flips the entire thing on it's head and turns it from an embarrassment for the Pats to an embarrassment for the NFL.

I have no idea if it's true, but it is something worth looking into. Has anyone actually tested this? If not, I wonder why? I might just make a youtube video tomorrow.

Again, it makes no difference.

I can't find the report right now, but it was reported (by Peter King I believe), that because of these concerns, the balls were tested both at halftime and after the game too.

The Colts balls weren't deflated at halftime, and they weren't deflated after the game, either. Only the Patriots' balls were when they were tested at halftime.

And I'm telling you it makes all the difference in the world. If footballs deflate almost 2 psi when you take them out into cold weather, than this entire story is meaningless, regardless of what the NFL says happened, or what their supposed testing uncovered.

Now please understand, I have no idea if footballs deflate or not. No idea at all. I'm just saying that if what the MIT guys is saying is actually true, this whole debate is over.

Again, read my previous post from Peter King's article.

If it was weather related, the Colts' balls would've been affected too. But they ALL were tested at halftime and after the game. And the only balls found to be illegal (by more than 2 PSI) were the Patriots' balls at halftime. None of the balls deflated at all over the entire 2nd half.

If the Pats' balls were deflated and the Colts' balls weren't, it wasn't because of the weather.

And that's why all these science experiments are pointless.

Completely irrelevant

OK, so in your world, it's a complete coincidence that 24 balls were tested and found to be legal with a pressure gauge before the game, and at halftime, and at least 11 of the 12 Patriots' balls were deflated by over 2 PSI and none of the Colts' balls were?

And it's another coincidence that none of the balls deflated over the 2nd half of the game, as the temperatures presumably dropped a few more degrees?

If that's irrelevant to you, so be it. A science experiment isn't going to get the Patriots out of this one if what Peter King reported is accurate.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Love how you didn't include ALL the former NFL coaches/players who've said it's no big deal. Nice cherry picking.

I didn't cherry pick anything. All of what I included was in one article. There wasn't anything in the article saying it wasn't a big deal. Read it yourself, wiseass.

Poor research on your part then. There's been plenty of people who've came out and said its no big deal.

Poor research? I wasn't researching anything. I was reading news articles, and that one was listed with others. I thought it was relevant to this thread so I posted it. Did you read the article, because it is more about these people saying they don't believe Tom Brady than saying it is a big deal. Personally, I don't believe Brady either. He would immediately know the difference in the feel of the ball. Do I think it is a big deal? I think it is par for the course with the Patriots.

Brady has a wet ball for 3 seconds at a time with a 300lb lineman coming his way on every play. You seriously think he has time to think about whether the ball is underinflated by 2 PSI?? lol. We've got some winners here.

How were the Colts able to tell the difference once they got a hold of it? You think they used a pressure meter on a whim?

Anyone saying you can't tell if a ball is over or under inflated in one grip/throw is delusional or has never held a football.

maybe cuz it was their own football?

What? I was talking about the ball D'Qwell Jackson intercepted.

(That said, I later learned the rumor that the Colts were tipped off to this whole situation.)

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

I've said all along that this isn't all that huge of a deal, but I'm loving how Patriot fans will go down with the ship until the bitter end. I admire their loyalty.

Bill Belichick could shoot the Pope at midfield of a sold out Gillette Stadium in front of a national TV audience and they'd all claim it wasn't him...

...Or they'd say "every team shoots the pope, so why is it such a big deal when the Pats do it, haters?"

Do you really think any fan bases are different? If so you're delusional.

Yes, I'm delusional.

So some fan bases are all that's good and right. I'm sure your city is at the top of the list. And some are evil and horrible?

I didn't say anything even close to that.

FWIW, pretty much exactly what u said\implied

If some one actually thinks I called Pats fans evil and horrible, than I apologize. That wasn't was I was trying to say at all. I'm not sure why it would be interpreted that way, but it was meant to be a joke about blind loyalty. No popes were actually killed.

You shouldn't apologize for something you neither said nor implied (much less "exactly"). Some people have really poor reading comprehension-not an insult-just obvious.

 

[Old Smiley]

I do still hold out hope that the pre game balls were not checked with a gauge and Anderson is covering his ### since he know his career is over if he admits he didn't use a gauge. The difference between submitting under inflated balls and doctoring them afterward is night and day.

I think the rumors that the refs were tipped off ahead of time could be critical, if they were "tipped off" then I find it impossible to believe that the refs wouldn't use the gauges to check the pressure pre game. If they weren't tipped in advance then I think there is a real chance the refs blew the pre game check.

If you choose not to believe the Boston Globe, then sure, then hold out hope that the refs are at fault.

That being said, a counter argument could be made that the gauges have not been consistently utilized and the refs have been lax on letting in footballs that didn't meet the rule. Still not an excuse for altering the footballs, but might help minimize the damages.

I don't think there's anything wrong with not using a gauge. There's no fault. I don't think anybody thought it was a big deal and now it's Pearl Harbor all over. I don't think a few pounds over or a few pounds under really matters other than what makes the quarterback feel comfortable. Anything about competive advantage is completely unproved.

But it's become this huge thing and the league by god is going to blow it again. Can you believe it? We're back to WTF does Roger Goodell have to do to get fired. And yeah, by the way, where's Roger?

Is HE under a gag restriction like the refs?

How about you come out and answer a few questions Rog? You used to love being on TV.

 

[General Tso]

Found it. From Peter King's MMBQ article today... http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/23/deflategate-patriots-super-bowl-xlix/

This is significant, because it takes weather-as-a-factor out of the possible reasons why New England’s footballs could have lost air while the balls on Indianapolis’ sidelines would have stayed fully inflated. I am told reliably that:

• The 12 footballs used in the first half for New England, and the 12 footballs used by the Colts, all left the officials’ locker room before the game at the prescribed pressure level of between 12.5 pounds per square inch and 13.5 psi.

• All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge at halftime. I am told either 11 or 12 of New England’s footballs (ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reported it was 11, and I hear it could have been all 12) had at least two pounds less pressure in them. All 12 Indianapolis footballs were at the prescribed level.

• All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge after the game. All 24 checked at the correct pressure—which is one of the last pieces of the puzzle the league needed to determine with certainty that something fishy happened with the Patriots footballs, because the Colts’ balls stayed correctly inflated for the nearly four hours. There had been reports quoting atmospheric experts that cold weather could deflate footballs. But if the Patriots’ balls were all low, and the Colts’ balls all legit, that quashes that theory.

The conclusion: There is little doubt the New England footballs were tampered with by a human.

And after he was sent several tweets asking for clarification if the refs measured the balls with gauges pregame, PK backed off a bit and sent this tweet:

RT @ryanvooris: How did they test them pre-game? With an pressure gauge or a visual inspection? …Likely electric gauge, but I was not there.

2:29pm - 23 Jan 15

 

[shader]

The 1.78 psi drop from the guy at MIT is quite interesting to me.

Throw everything that we know out and focus on that.

If it is true that a ball will lose 1.5-2 psi in a couple hours in the cold, that flips the entire thing on it's head and turns it from an embarrassment for the Pats to an embarrassment for the NFL.

I have no idea if it's true, but it is something worth looking into. Has anyone actually tested this? If not, I wonder why? I might just make a youtube video tomorrow.

Again, it makes no difference.

I can't find the report right now, but it was reported (by Peter King I believe), that because of these concerns, the balls were tested both at halftime and after the game too.

The Colts balls weren't deflated at halftime, and they weren't deflated after the game, either. Only the Patriots' balls were when they were tested at halftime.

And I'm telling you it makes all the difference in the world. If footballs deflate almost 2 psi when you take them out into cold weather, than this entire story is meaningless, regardless of what the NFL says happened, or what their supposed testing uncovered.

Now please understand, I have no idea if footballs deflate or not. No idea at all. I'm just saying that if what the MIT guys is saying is actually true, this whole debate is over.

Again, read my previous post from Peter King's article.

If it was weather related, the Colts' balls would've been affected too. But they ALL were tested at halftime and after the game. And the only balls found to be illegal (by more than 2 PSI) were the Patriots' balls at halftime. None of the balls deflated at all over the entire 2nd half.

If the Pats' balls were deflated and the Colts' balls weren't, it wasn't because of the weather.

And that's why all these science experiments are pointless.

Completely irrelevant

OK, so in your world, it's a complete coincidence that 24 balls were tested and found to be legal with a pressure gauge before the game, and at halftime, and at least 11 of the 12 Patriots' balls were deflated by over 2 PSI and none of the Colts' balls were?

And it's another coincidence that none of the balls deflated over the 2nd half of the game, as the temperatures presumably dropped a few more degrees?

If that's irrelevant to you, so be it. A science experiment isn't going to get the Patriots out of this one if what Peter King reported is accurate.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or to win this battle. Please try and understand my point if you want to continue the discussion.

I'm telling you that if I'm the Patriots, and I find out that footballs will deflate 1.5-2 psi in the conditions found last weekend, I tell the NFL to leave the premises and stop the investigation.

Why? Because where is the proof? I completely understand that the Colts balls were supposedly measured, according to a Peter King article. But what if they weren't? Or what if they measured one or two of the Colts balls? Or what if the Colts balls previously were 13.5 psi?

The point is astonishingly simple:

Balls are supposed to be measured and set at 12.5-13.5 psi before the game. If balls are measured at 12.5 but then lose 1.5-2 psi during the course of the game, than that means that footballs will be "out of regulation" in cold weather games. Meaning this has happened many, many times before.

If footballs don't lose pressure in a few hours, than my entire rant is meaningless.

 

[Run It Up]

Found it. From Peter King's MMBQ article today... http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/23/deflategate-patriots-super-bowl-xlix/

This is significant, because it takes weather-as-a-factor out of the possible reasons why New England’s footballs could have lost air while the balls on Indianapolis’ sidelines would have stayed fully inflated. I am told reliably that:

• The 12 footballs used in the first half for New England, and the 12 footballs used by the Colts, all left the officials’ locker room before the game at the prescribed pressure level of between 12.5 pounds per square inch and 13.5 psi.

• All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge at halftime. I am told either 11 or 12 of New England’s footballs (ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reported it was 11, and I hear it could have been all 12) had at least two pounds less pressure in them. All 12 Indianapolis footballs were at the prescribed level.

• All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge after the game. All 24 checked at the correct pressure—which is one of the last pieces of the puzzle the league needed to determine with certainty that something fishy happened with the Patriots footballs, because the Colts’ balls stayed correctly inflated for the nearly four hours. There had been reports quoting atmospheric experts that cold weather could deflate footballs. But if the Patriots’ balls were all low, and the Colts’ balls all legit, that quashes that theory.

The conclusion: There is little doubt the New England footballs were tampered with by a human.

And after he was sent several tweets asking for clarification if the refs measured the balls with gauges pregame, PK backed off a bit and sent this tweet:

RT @ryanvooris: How did they test them pre-game? With an pressure gauge or a visual inspection? …Likely electric gauge, but I was not there.

2:29pm - 23 Jan 15

Lol, hilarious that I go to work and come home and see this.

What a ####show this whole thing is and the thread is worse.

 

[12punch]

The only explanation for those hoping for a gauge/inspection/weather explanation is that the Colts footballs started out on the highest side of the range and the Patriots were on the lowest side of the range. The Pats could also try to argue that they inserted hot air into the balls instead of room temperature air, but that seems far fetched. But that still would not explain away all of the difference.

And not being a science geek, I am not sure if testing the Colts balls after they tested NE's (halftime and post game) would raise the pressure enough that it appeared that Indy's footballs did not lose pressure when they could have. Just spit balling . . .

we don't have any kind of definitive info about anything, unless you count 60 pages of jibberjabber, but if balls change temp they will change psi a bit --- that's not really a debate.

maybe it's just 1 psi, and there's some kind of 1 psi discrepency, or whatever, but to concern yourself with that kind of petty bs would be 100% scientifically proven pure troll.

all these people crying about the pats beating their asses like peterson's kid are the exact same crowd with ####### shrines of players in their bedroom who were doing everything and anything they could think of to win 60 yrs ago.

butkus is a nat'l hero for trying to cripple guys because it happened a long time ago --- anybody with an incidental head graze today deserves a lifetime ban due to overloading internet servers with outrage.

over the course of a season there might be 10 and 90 degree weather games on the extreme ends that will result in something close to a 5 psi swing in variance.

there's a built in 1 psi range, and after what rodgers said, I have to assume there's some ball fudging going on, which we'll very conservatively call +/- 1 psi.

all said, that's maybe a 7-8 psi variance if we collected every ball used during a season and nobody has ever said a word about it because, in conclusion............

wgaf

anybody complaining about this is just trolling the board or really in need of maybe just 10% of a life.

maybe we can get seattle dq'd from the sb if we find out their socks are an inch too long

Kool aid Larry is pure gold. Calling others trolls-love it. You're one of the most obnoxious people I've run across. "Beating their ### like Peterson's kid"? Niiiiiice.

Learn to write dude because most of what you write is barely comprehensible. Some punctuation and capitalization would help too.

I'm pretty sure most of what you read is barely comprehensible

oh yes I did!

 

[Steelers4Life]

I do still hold out hope that the pre game balls were not checked with a gauge and Anderson is covering his ### since he know his career is over if he admits he didn't use a gauge. The difference between submitting under inflated balls and doctoring them afterward is night and day.

I think the rumors that the refs were tipped off ahead of time could be critical, if they were "tipped off" then I find it impossible to believe that the refs wouldn't use the gauges to check the pressure pre game. If they weren't tipped in advance then I think there is a real chance the refs blew the pre game check.

If you choose not to believe the Boston Globe, then sure, then hold out hope that the refs are at fault.

That being said, a counter argument could be made that the gauges have not been consistently utilized and the refs have been lax on letting in footballs that didn't meet the rule. Still not an excuse for altering the footballs, but might help minimize the damages.

I don't think there's anything wrong with not using a gauge. There's no fault. I don't think anybody thought it was a big deal and now it's Pearl Harbor all over. I don't think a few pounds over or a few pounds under really matters other than what makes the quarterback feel comfortable. Anything about competive advantage is completely unproved.

But it's become this huge thing and the league by god is going to blow it again. Can you believe it? We're back to WTF does Roger Goodell have to do to get fired. And yeah, by the way, where's Roger?

Is HE under a gag restriction like the refs?

How about you come out and answer a few questions Rog? You used to love being on TV.

I'd say a lot of current and former players have spoken out about this and disagree with your assessment here. It makes the QB's grip and feel better, leading to better accuracy. And both d-linemen and running backs (Bettis is an example) have said it's harder to force fumbles because runners can grip the ball better.

 

[moleculo]

The 1.78 psi drop from the guy at MIT is quite interesting to me.

Throw everything that we know out and focus on that.

If it is true that a ball will lose 1.5-2 psi in a couple hours in the cold, that flips the entire thing on it's head and turns it from an embarrassment for the Pats to an embarrassment for the NFL.

I have no idea if it's true, but it is something worth looking into. Has anyone actually tested this? If not, I wonder why? I might just make a youtube video tomorrow.

Again, it makes no difference.

I can't find the report right now, but it was reported (by Peter King I believe), that because of these concerns, the balls were tested both at halftime and after the game too.

The Colts balls weren't deflated at halftime, and they weren't deflated after the game, either. Only the Patriots' balls were when they were tested at halftime.

And I'm telling you it makes all the difference in the world. If footballs deflate almost 2 psi when you take them out into cold weather, than this entire story is meaningless, regardless of what the NFL says happened, or what their supposed testing uncovered.

Now please understand, I have no idea if footballs deflate or not. No idea at all. I'm just saying that if what the MIT guys is saying is actually true, this whole debate is over.

Again, read my previous post from Peter King's article.

If it was weather related, the Colts' balls would've been affected too. But they ALL were tested at halftime and after the game. And the only balls found to be illegal (by more than 2 PSI) were the Patriots' balls at halftime. None of the balls deflated at all over the entire 2nd half.

If the Pats' balls were deflated and the Colts' balls weren't, it wasn't because of the weather.

And that's why all these science experiments are pointless.

Completely irrelevant

OK, so in your world, it's a complete coincidence that 24 balls were tested and found to be legal with a pressure gauge before the game, and at halftime, and at least 11 of the 12 Patriots' balls were deflated by over 2 PSI and none of the Colts' balls were?

And it's another coincidence that none of the balls deflated over the 2nd half of the game, as the temperatures presumably dropped a few more degrees?

If that's irrelevant to you, so be it. A science experiment isn't going to get the Patriots out of this one if what Peter King reported is accurate.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or to win this battle. Please try and understand my point if you want to continue the discussion.

I'm telling you that if I'm the Patriots, and I find out that footballs will deflate 1.5-2 psi in the conditions found last weekend, I tell the NFL to leave the premises and stop the investigation.

Why? Because where is the proof? I completely understand that the Colts balls were supposedly measured, according to a Peter King article. But what if they weren't? Or what if they measured one or two of the Colts balls? Or what if the Colts balls previously were 13.5 psi?

The point is astonishingly simple:

Balls are supposed to be measured and set at 12.5-13.5 psi before the game. If balls are measured at 12.5 but then lose 1.5-2 psi during the course of the game, than that means that footballs will be "out of regulation" in cold weather games. Meaning this has happened many, many times before.

If footballs don't lose pressure in a few hours, than my entire rant is meaningless.

if you were to tell me your guys found that footballs were capable of losing 1.5 to 2 psi during the conditions of that game, I'd tell you to fire your guys.

 

[shader]

Found it. From Peter King's MMBQ article today... http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/23/deflategate-patriots-super-bowl-xlix/

This is significant, because it takes weather-as-a-factor out of the possible reasons why New England’s footballs could have lost air while the balls on Indianapolis’ sidelines would have stayed fully inflated. I am told reliably that:

• The 12 footballs used in the first half for New England, and the 12 footballs used by the Colts, all left the officials’ locker room before the game at the prescribed pressure level of between 12.5 pounds per square inch and 13.5 psi.

• All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge at halftime. I am told either 11 or 12 of New England’s footballs (ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reported it was 11, and I hear it could have been all 12) had at least two pounds less pressure in them. All 12 Indianapolis footballs were at the prescribed level.

• All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge after the game. All 24 checked at the correct pressure—which is one of the last pieces of the puzzle the league needed to determine with certainty that something fishy happened with the Patriots footballs, because the Colts’ balls stayed correctly inflated for the nearly four hours. There had been reports quoting atmospheric experts that cold weather could deflate footballs. But if the Patriots’ balls were all low, and the Colts’ balls all legit, that quashes that theory.

The conclusion: There is little doubt the New England footballs were tampered with by a human.

And after he was sent several tweets asking for clarification if the refs measured the balls with gauges pregame, PK backed off a bit and sent this tweet:

RT @ryanvooris: How did they test them pre-game? With an pressure gauge or a visual inspection? …Likely electric gauge, but I was not there.

2:29pm - 23 Jan 15

If i'm the Pats, I play hardball. I come out swinging after the super bowl. The NFL needs to prove it. Pretty shameful the way they've allowed Brady to be treated. If you asked most people last Sunday who the greatest QB in NFL history was, you'd get a lot of analysts who would say Brady. Yet they are letting his legacy potentially be seriously damaged, and have yet to provide a single bit of proof of anything.

Unless of course, we are asked to just believe everything the NFL says. Which....I think we've learned is a bad idea.

 

[12punch]

The 1.78 psi drop from the guy at MIT is quite interesting to me.

Throw everything that we know out and focus on that.

If it is true that a ball will lose 1.5-2 psi in a couple hours in the cold, that flips the entire thing on it's head and turns it from an embarrassment for the Pats to an embarrassment for the NFL.

I have no idea if it's true, but it is something worth looking into. Has anyone actually tested this? If not, I wonder why? I might just make a youtube video tomorrow.

Again, it makes no difference.

I can't find the report right now, but it was reported (by Peter King I believe), that because of these concerns, the balls were tested both at halftime and after the game too.

The Colts balls weren't deflated at halftime, and they weren't deflated after the game, either. Only the Patriots' balls were when they were tested at halftime.

And I'm telling you it makes all the difference in the world. If footballs deflate almost 2 psi when you take them out into cold weather, than this entire story is meaningless, regardless of what the NFL says happened, or what their supposed testing uncovered.

Now please understand, I have no idea if footballs deflate or not. No idea at all. I'm just saying that if what the MIT guys is saying is actually true, this whole debate is over.

Again, read my previous post from Peter King's article.

If it was weather related, the Colts' balls would've been affected too. But they ALL were tested at halftime and after the game. And the only balls found to be illegal (by more than 2 PSI) were the Patriots' balls at halftime. None of the balls deflated at all over the entire 2nd half.

If the Pats' balls were deflated and the Colts' balls weren't, it wasn't because of the weather.

And that's why all these science experiments are pointless.

Completely irrelevant

OK, so in your world, it's a complete coincidence that 24 balls were tested and found to be legal with a pressure gauge before the game, and at halftime, and at least 11 of the 12 Patriots' balls were deflated by over 2 PSI and none of the Colts' balls were?

And it's another coincidence that none of the balls deflated over the 2nd half of the game, as the temperatures presumably dropped a few more degrees?

If that's irrelevant to you, so be it. A science experiment isn't going to get the Patriots out of this one if what Peter King reported is accurate.

do some of you people live in a 3rd world country or the year 1721?

 

[Road Warriors]

I know it looks bad, but I just don't believe brady knowingly did anything wrong.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/physics-professor-counters-deflate-gate-accusations-with-science-video/

Only, its not just one mans opinion. Following Naughtons press release, The Boston Herald was contacted by a postdoctoral associate at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology I hear theyre pretty good at that whole science thing who corroborated the claim. The anonymous associate even sent in his own math that predicted a, 1.78 psi [decrease] by halftime if the balls were filled at room temperature.

you guys outside new england don't know anything about the Massachusetts Institute of Technology but it's a pretty prestigious school

I haven't thought much about the weather thing...but if it's true that a ball would deflate by halftime, this could go bad for the league.

For instance, what if this happens in every single cold weather game, but the only reason the balls were measured is becUse the colts had the NFL ready to investigate the psi.

Might hold water if both teams' balls were affected by the weather.

But if the reports are true, somehow, only the Patriots' balls got deflated by the weather. The Colts' balls stayed legal. And they didn't deflate any farther in the second half - they were still legal at the end of the game.

That basically destroys any chance of blaming it on the temperature.

The no further deflation makes some sense.

Assuming the air in the ball was initially at room temp when pregame inspection was done. By halftime, the ball's internal air temp had normalized with the outdoor temp for the halftime reading. Reinflating the ball with a couple psi wouldn't raise the internal temp much, so the temp would be stable from the second measurement at the half vs the end of game measurement.

Still doesn't explain the Colts balls.

 

[shader]

The 1.78 psi drop from the guy at MIT is quite interesting to me.

Throw everything that we know out and focus on that.

If it is true that a ball will lose 1.5-2 psi in a couple hours in the cold, that flips the entire thing on it's head and turns it from an embarrassment for the Pats to an embarrassment for the NFL.

I have no idea if it's true, but it is something worth looking into. Has anyone actually tested this? If not, I wonder why? I might just make a youtube video tomorrow.

Again, it makes no difference.

I can't find the report right now, but it was reported (by Peter King I believe), that because of these concerns, the balls were tested both at halftime and after the game too.

The Colts balls weren't deflated at halftime, and they weren't deflated after the game, either. Only the Patriots' balls were when they were tested at halftime.

And I'm telling you it makes all the difference in the world. If footballs deflate almost 2 psi when you take them out into cold weather, than this entire story is meaningless, regardless of what the NFL says happened, or what their supposed testing uncovered.

Now please understand, I have no idea if footballs deflate or not. No idea at all. I'm just saying that if what the MIT guys is saying is actually true, this whole debate is over.

Again, read my previous post from Peter King's article.

If it was weather related, the Colts' balls would've been affected too. But they ALL were tested at halftime and after the game. And the only balls found to be illegal (by more than 2 PSI) were the Patriots' balls at halftime. None of the balls deflated at all over the entire 2nd half.

If the Pats' balls were deflated and the Colts' balls weren't, it wasn't because of the weather.

And that's why all these science experiments are pointless.

Completely irrelevant

OK, so in your world, it's a complete coincidence that 24 balls were tested and found to be legal with a pressure gauge before the game, and at halftime, and at least 11 of the 12 Patriots' balls were deflated by over 2 PSI and none of the Colts' balls were?

And it's another coincidence that none of the balls deflated over the 2nd half of the game, as the temperatures presumably dropped a few more degrees?

If that's irrelevant to you, so be it. A science experiment isn't going to get the Patriots out of this one if what Peter King reported is accurate.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or to win this battle. Please try and understand my point if you want to continue the discussion.

I'm telling you that if I'm the Patriots, and I find out that footballs will deflate 1.5-2 psi in the conditions found last weekend, I tell the NFL to leave the premises and stop the investigation.

Why? Because where is the proof? I completely understand that the Colts balls were supposedly measured, according to a Peter King article. But what if they weren't? Or what if they measured one or two of the Colts balls? Or what if the Colts balls previously were 13.5 psi?

The point is astonishingly simple:

Balls are supposed to be measured and set at 12.5-13.5 psi before the game. If balls are measured at 12.5 but then lose 1.5-2 psi during the course of the game, than that means that footballs will be "out of regulation" in cold weather games. Meaning this has happened many, many times before.

If footballs don't lose pressure in a few hours, than my entire rant is meaningless.

if you were to tell me your guys found that footballs were capable of losing 1.5 to 2 psi during the conditions of that game, I'd tell you to fire your guys.

Honestly, it sounds far-fetched to me. But I can honestly say I've never studied the effects of cold weather on the PSI of a football.

But if an MIT guy is saying it would lose 1.78, that makes me stop for a second and think. What if this ALWAYS happens in cold weather games? I have no idea.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

The only explanation for those hoping for a gauge/inspection/weather explanation is that the Colts footballs started out on the highest side of the range and the Patriots were on the lowest side of the range. The Pats could also try to argue that they inserted hot air into the balls instead of room temperature air, but that seems far fetched. But that still would not explain away all of the difference.

And not being a science geek, I am not sure if testing the Colts balls after they tested NE's (halftime and post game) would raise the pressure enough that it appeared that Indy's footballs did not lose pressure when they could have. Just spit balling . . .

we don't have any kind of definitive info about anything, unless you count 60 pages of jibberjabber, but if balls change temp they will change psi a bit --- that's not really a debate.

maybe it's just 1 psi, and there's some kind of 1 psi discrepency, or whatever, but to concern yourself with that kind of petty bs would be 100% scientifically proven pure troll.

all these people crying about the pats beating their asses like peterson's kid are the exact same crowd with ####### shrines of players in their bedroom who were doing everything and anything they could think of to win 60 yrs ago.

butkus is a nat'l hero for trying to cripple guys because it happened a long time ago --- anybody with an incidental head graze today deserves a lifetime ban due to overloading internet servers with outrage.

over the course of a season there might be 10 and 90 degree weather games on the extreme ends that will result in something close to a 5 psi swing in variance.

there's a built in 1 psi range, and after what rodgers said, I have to assume there's some ball fudging going on, which we'll very conservatively call +/- 1 psi.

all said, that's maybe a 7-8 psi variance if we collected every ball used during a season and nobody has ever said a word about it because, in conclusion............

wgaf

anybody complaining about this is just trolling the board or really in need of maybe just 10% of a life.

maybe we can get seattle dq'd from the sb if we find out their socks are an inch too long

Kool aid Larry is pure gold. Calling others trolls-love it. You're one of the most obnoxious people I've run across. "Beating their ### like Peterson's kid"? Niiiiiice.

Learn to write dude because most of what you write is barely comprehensible. Some punctuation and capitalization would help too.

I'm pretty sure most of what you read is barely comprehensible

oh yes I did!

Good one!!! See, keep it at that level and you do OK. Single sentences for you dude, single sentences.

 

[moleculo]

The 1.78 psi drop from the guy at MIT is quite interesting to me.

Throw everything that we know out and focus on that.

If it is true that a ball will lose 1.5-2 psi in a couple hours in the cold, that flips the entire thing on it's head and turns it from an embarrassment for the Pats to an embarrassment for the NFL.

I have no idea if it's true, but it is something worth looking into. Has anyone actually tested this? If not, I wonder why? I might just make a youtube video tomorrow.

Again, it makes no difference.

I can't find the report right now, but it was reported (by Peter King I believe), that because of these concerns, the balls were tested both at halftime and after the game too.

The Colts balls weren't deflated at halftime, and they weren't deflated after the game, either. Only the Patriots' balls were when they were tested at halftime.

And I'm telling you it makes all the difference in the world. If footballs deflate almost 2 psi when you take them out into cold weather, than this entire story is meaningless, regardless of what the NFL says happened, or what their supposed testing uncovered.

Now please understand, I have no idea if footballs deflate or not. No idea at all. I'm just saying that if what the MIT guys is saying is actually true, this whole debate is over.

Again, read my previous post from Peter King's article.

If it was weather related, the Colts' balls would've been affected too. But they ALL were tested at halftime and after the game. And the only balls found to be illegal (by more than 2 PSI) were the Patriots' balls at halftime. None of the balls deflated at all over the entire 2nd half.

If the Pats' balls were deflated and the Colts' balls weren't, it wasn't because of the weather.

And that's why all these science experiments are pointless.

Completely irrelevant

OK, so in your world, it's a complete coincidence that 24 balls were tested and found to be legal with a pressure gauge before the game, and at halftime, and at least 11 of the 12 Patriots' balls were deflated by over 2 PSI and none of the Colts' balls were?

And it's another coincidence that none of the balls deflated over the 2nd half of the game, as the temperatures presumably dropped a few more degrees?

If that's irrelevant to you, so be it. A science experiment isn't going to get the Patriots out of this one if what Peter King reported is accurate.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or to win this battle. Please try and understand my point if you want to continue the discussion.

I'm telling you that if I'm the Patriots, and I find out that footballs will deflate 1.5-2 psi in the conditions found last weekend, I tell the NFL to leave the premises and stop the investigation.

Why? Because where is the proof? I completely understand that the Colts balls were supposedly measured, according to a Peter King article. But what if they weren't? Or what if they measured one or two of the Colts balls? Or what if the Colts balls previously were 13.5 psi?

The point is astonishingly simple:

Balls are supposed to be measured and set at 12.5-13.5 psi before the game. If balls are measured at 12.5 but then lose 1.5-2 psi during the course of the game, than that means that footballs will be "out of regulation" in cold weather games. Meaning this has happened many, many times before.

If footballs don't lose pressure in a few hours, than my entire rant is meaningless.

if you were to tell me your guys found that footballs were capable of losing 1.5 to 2 psi during the conditions of that game, I'd tell you to fire your guys.

Honestly, it sounds far-fetched to me. But I can honestly say I've never studied the effects of cold weather on the PSI of a football.

But if an MIT guy is saying it would lose 1.78, that makes me stop for a second and think. What if this ALWAYS happens in cold weather games? I have no idea.

it tells me the anonymous MIT guy quoting 1.78 psi drop is likely a salty homer.

 

[rockaction]

Found it. From Peter King's MMBQ article today... http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/23/deflategate-patriots-super-bowl-xlix/

This is significant, because it takes weather-as-a-factor out of the possible reasons why New England’s footballs could have lost air while the balls on Indianapolis’ sidelines would have stayed fully inflated. I am told reliably that:

• The 12 footballs used in the first half for New England, and the 12 footballs used by the Colts, all left the officials’ locker room before the game at the prescribed pressure level of between 12.5 pounds per square inch and 13.5 psi.

• All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge at halftime. I am told either 11 or 12 of New England’s footballs (ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reported it was 11, and I hear it could have been all 12) had at least two pounds less pressure in them. All 12 Indianapolis footballs were at the prescribed level.

• All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge after the game. All 24 checked at the correct pressure—which is one of the last pieces of the puzzle the league needed to determine with certainty that something fishy happened with the Patriots footballs, because the Colts’ balls stayed correctly inflated for the nearly four hours. There had been reports quoting atmospheric experts that cold weather could deflate footballs. But if the Patriots’ balls were all low, and the Colts’ balls all legit, that quashes that theory.

The conclusion: There is little doubt the New England footballs were tampered with by a human.

And after he was sent several tweets asking for clarification if the refs measured the balls with gauges pregame, PK backed off a bit and sent this tweet:

RT @ryanvooris: How did they test them pre-game? With an pressure gauge or a visual inspection? …Likely electric gauge, but I was not there.

2:29pm - 23 Jan 15

Lol, hilarious that I go to work and come home and see this.

What a ####show this whole thing is and the thread is worse.

Awww. Hilarious.

We can go with this, I guess.

CHEATED.

 

[12punch]

Found it. From Peter King's MMBQ article today... http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/23/deflategate-patriots-super-bowl-xlix/

This is significant, because it takes weather-as-a-factor out of the possible reasons why New England’s footballs could have lost air while the balls on Indianapolis’ sidelines would have stayed fully inflated. I am told reliably that:

• The 12 footballs used in the first half for New England, and the 12 footballs used by the Colts, all left the officials’ locker room before the game at the prescribed pressure level of between 12.5 pounds per square inch and 13.5 psi.

• All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge at halftime. I am told either 11 or 12 of New England’s footballs (ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reported it was 11, and I hear it could have been all 12) had at least two pounds less pressure in them. All 12 Indianapolis footballs were at the prescribed level.

• All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge after the game. All 24 checked at the correct pressure—which is one of the last pieces of the puzzle the league needed to determine with certainty that something fishy happened with the Patriots footballs, because the Colts’ balls stayed correctly inflated for the nearly four hours. There had been reports quoting atmospheric experts that cold weather could deflate footballs. But if the Patriots’ balls were all low, and the Colts’ balls all legit, that quashes that theory.

The conclusion: There is little doubt the New England footballs were tampered with by a human.

And after he was sent several tweets asking for clarification if the refs measured the balls with gauges pregame, PK backed off a bit and sent this tweet:

RT @ryanvooris: How did they test them pre-game? With an pressure gauge or a visual inspection? …Likely electric gauge, but I was not there.

2:29pm - 23 Jan 15

PATS TROLLING THE WORLD!!!

 

[shader]

I know it looks bad, but I just don't believe brady knowingly did anything wrong.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/physics-professor-counters-deflate-gate-accusations-with-science-video/

Only, its not just one mans opinion. Following Naughtons press release, The Boston Herald was contacted by a postdoctoral associate at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology I hear theyre pretty good at that whole science thing who corroborated the claim. The anonymous associate even sent in his own math that predicted a, 1.78 psi [decrease] by halftime if the balls were filled at room temperature.

you guys outside new england don't know anything about the Massachusetts Institute of Technology but it's a pretty prestigious school

I haven't thought much about the weather thing...but if it's true that a ball would deflate by halftime, this could go bad for the league.

For instance, what if this happens in every single cold weather game, but the only reason the balls were measured is becUse the colts had the NFL ready to investigate the psi.

Might hold water if both teams' balls were affected by the weather.

But if the reports are true, somehow, only the Patriots' balls got deflated by the weather. The Colts' balls stayed legal. And they didn't deflate any farther in the second half - they were still legal at the end of the game.

That basically destroys any chance of blaming it on the temperature.

The no further deflation makes some sense.

Assuming the air in the ball was initially at room temp when pregame inspection was done. By halftime, the ball's internal air temp had normalized with the outdoor temp for the halftime reading. Reinflating the ball with a couple psi wouldn't raise the internal temp much, so the temp would be stable from the second measurement at the half vs the end of game measurement.

Still doesn't explain the Colts balls.

I don't trust that Peter King's word is the final say on how thoroughly the Colts balls were tested. If he's backtracking as to how the balls were even tested in the pregame...I think it's safe to say that we don't need to treat everything he said like it's fact.

 

[Run It Up]

Peter King @SI_PeterKing · 9h 9 hours ago

RT @ryanvooris: How did they test them pre-game? With an pressure gauge or a visual inspection? …Likely electric gauge, but I was not there.

credit to GeneralTso

Why can't I hold all these implications and assumptions.

 

[bostonfred]

there's a simple explanation for how the Colts footballs would remain unchanged and n it had nothing b to do v with the Colts over inflating theirs.

They filled their balls outside and the pats didn't. Which makes sense if you're the visiting team, and also if you intend to have the balls investigated later in the game.

Is there a rule related to air temperature in the ball? I haven't seen one posted. Is there a rule about where balls may be b filled? Of course not.

A properly inflated ball drops in pressure throughout the game and becomes softer as the game goes on. That's not cheating, it's nature. If the nfl wanted to put a rule in place to ensure that effect didn't happen, that's fine, but its silly to call it cheating.

The only team getting cheated here are v the patriots, who followed the rules and were blind sided by science and false accusations when they're supposed to be preparing for the superbowl. Obviously the league will issue am apology but by then it will be to late to make up for lost preparation time. And in the process, they've unnecessarily and unfairly tarnished the reputations of the greatest qb and coach in n the history of the league. shameful.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Or what if the Colts balls previously were 13.5 psi?

So what if the Colts balls were previously 13.5 psi? If the claim is that the weather knocked the balls down by 1.78 psi then that would have made the Colts balls' out of spec too. As far as we know (not a fact yet), they weren't out of spec though, hence I don't see how the weather could have had a 1.78 psi drop unless the Colts' balls were OVERinflated to 14.5+ psi to start.

I just can't think up a scenario where the Patriots balls dropped by 2 PSI due to the weather but both the Colts' balls and the Patriots' replacement balls didn't.

 

[shader]

Another thing that bothers me. Why has it become GOSPEL that the balls were 2 pounds under the legal requirement? Were they ALL 10.5 psi? 11 of them were exactly 10.5 psi?

 

[Steelers4Life]

The 1.78 psi drop from the guy at MIT is quite interesting to me.

Throw everything that we know out and focus on that.

If it is true that a ball will lose 1.5-2 psi in a couple hours in the cold, that flips the entire thing on it's head and turns it from an embarrassment for the Pats to an embarrassment for the NFL.

I have no idea if it's true, but it is something worth looking into. Has anyone actually tested this? If not, I wonder why? I might just make a youtube video tomorrow.

Again, it makes no difference.

I can't find the report right now, but it was reported (by Peter King I believe), that because of these concerns, the balls were tested both at halftime and after the game too.

The Colts balls weren't deflated at halftime, and they weren't deflated after the game, either. Only the Patriots' balls were when they were tested at halftime.

And I'm telling you it makes all the difference in the world. If footballs deflate almost 2 psi when you take them out into cold weather, than this entire story is meaningless, regardless of what the NFL says happened, or what their supposed testing uncovered.

Now please understand, I have no idea if footballs deflate or not. No idea at all. I'm just saying that if what the MIT guys is saying is actually true, this whole debate is over.

Again, read my previous post from Peter King's article.

If it was weather related, the Colts' balls would've been affected too. But they ALL were tested at halftime and after the game. And the only balls found to be illegal (by more than 2 PSI) were the Patriots' balls at halftime. None of the balls deflated at all over the entire 2nd half.

If the Pats' balls were deflated and the Colts' balls weren't, it wasn't because of the weather.

And that's why all these science experiments are pointless.

Completely irrelevant

OK, so in your world, it's a complete coincidence that 24 balls were tested and found to be legal with a pressure gauge before the game, and at halftime, and at least 11 of the 12 Patriots' balls were deflated by over 2 PSI and none of the Colts' balls were?

And it's another coincidence that none of the balls deflated over the 2nd half of the game, as the temperatures presumably dropped a few more degrees?

If that's irrelevant to you, so be it. A science experiment isn't going to get the Patriots out of this one if what Peter King reported is accurate.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or to win this battle. Please try and understand my point if you want to continue the discussion.

I'm telling you that if I'm the Patriots, and I find out that footballs will deflate 1.5-2 psi in the conditions found last weekend, I tell the NFL to leave the premises and stop the investigation.

Why? Because where is the proof? I completely understand that the Colts balls were supposedly measured, according to a Peter King article. But what if they weren't? Or what if they measured one or two of the Colts balls? Or what if the Colts balls previously were 13.5 psi?

The point is astonishingly simple:

Balls are supposed to be measured and set at 12.5-13.5 psi before the game. If balls are measured at 12.5 but then lose 1.5-2 psi during the course of the game, than that means that footballs will be "out of regulation" in cold weather games. Meaning this has happened many, many times before.

If footballs don't lose pressure in a few hours, than my entire rant is meaningless.

If the reports by King and Mortensen and several others are all incorrect and they didn't really test the Colts' balls like has been described, you're right. But personally, I'll side with the numerous reports that say they were.

Even if the Colts balls started at 13.5, a 2 PSI drop would've still made them illegal. Or maybe the Patriots sideline had an effect on the balls but the Colts sideline didn't, but that's about impossible.

Considering that the weather claim would mean that the Patriots' balls lost 2 PSI in the first half, but NONE of the footballs lost enough pressure to be illegal over the entire second half is even more damning.

If your premise is that the Colts balls weren't really tested and those reports are all incorrect, sure, there's a chance. Assuming all of the reports are accurate, or even mostly accurate, it's damning evidence that the Patriots tried to pull something and it's a matter of figuring out what.

 

[rockaction]

Or what if the Colts balls previously were 13.5 psi?

So what if the Colts balls were previously 13.5 psi? If the claim is that the weather knocked the balls down by 1.78 psi then that would have made the Colts balls' out of spec too. As far as we know (not a fact yet), they weren't out of spec though, hence I don't see how the weather could have had a 1.78 psi drop unless the Colts' balls were OVERinflated to 14.5+ psi to start.

I just can't think up a scenario where the Patriots balls dropped by 2 PSI due to the weather but both the Colts' balls and the Patriots' replacement balls didn't.

This makes too much sense.

You have a control group and one that was affected. Plus, halftime balls.

Felger and Mazz went over the whole thing on CSNHD today.

Nobody but trolls and homers buys this.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

there's a simple explanation for how the Colts footballs would remain unchanged and n it had nothing b to do v with the Colts over inflating theirs.

They filled their balls outside and the pats didn't. Which makes sense if you're the visiting team, and also if you intend to have the balls investigated later in the game.

Is there a rule related to air temperature in the ball? I haven't seen one posted. Is there a rule about where balls may be b filled? Of course not.

A properly inflated ball drops in pressure throughout the game and becomes softer as the game goes on. That's not cheating, it's nature. If the nfl wanted to put a rule in place to ensure that effect didn't happen, that's fine, but its silly to call it cheating.

The only team getting cheated here are v the patriots, who followed the rules and were blind sided by science and false accusations when they're supposed to be preparing for the superbowl. Obviously the league will issue am apology but by then it will be to late to make up for lost preparation time. And in the process, they've unnecessarily and unfairly tarnished the reputations of the greatest qb and coach in n the history of the league. shameful.

Weren't the Pats' backup balls filled at the same time as their starting balls? But the backup balls didn't drop in psi.

 

[12punch]

Honestly, it sounds far-fetched to me. But I can honestly say I've never studied the effects of cold weather on the PSI of a football.

But if an MIT guy is saying it would lose 1.78, that makes me stop for a second and think. What if this ALWAYS happens in cold weather games? I have no idea.

stop saying things like that

 

[SacramentoBob]

there's a simple explanation for how the Colts footballs would remain unchanged and n it had nothing b to do v with the Colts over inflating theirs.

They filled their balls outside and the pats didn't. Which makes sense if you're the visiting team, and also if you intend to have the balls investigated later in the game.

Is there a rule related to air temperature in the ball? I haven't seen one posted. Is there a rule about where balls may be b filled? Of course not.

A properly inflated ball drops in pressure throughout the game and becomes softer as the game goes on. That's not cheating, it's nature. If the nfl wanted to put a rule in place to ensure that effect didn't happen, that's fine, but its silly to call it cheating.

The only team getting cheated here are v the patriots, who followed the rules and were blind sided by science and false accusations when they're supposed to be preparing for the superbowl. Obviously the league will issue am apology but by then it will be to late to make up for lost preparation time. And in the process, they've unnecessarily and unfairly tarnished the reputations of the greatest qb and coach in n the history of the league. shameful.

Weren't the Pats' backup balls filled at the same time as their starting balls? But the backup balls didn't drop in psi.

Because the Pats didn't deflate the backup balls, duh.

 

[moleculo]

there's a simple explanation for how the Colts footballs would remain unchanged and n it had nothing b to do v with the Colts over inflating theirs.

They filled their balls outside and the pats didn't. Which makes sense if you're the visiting team, and also if you intend to have the balls investigated later in the game.

Is there a rule related to air temperature in the ball? I haven't seen one posted. Is there a rule about where balls may be b filled? Of course not.

A properly inflated ball drops in pressure throughout the game and becomes softer as the game goes on. That's not cheating, it's nature. If the nfl wanted to put a rule in place to ensure that effect didn't happen, that's fine, but its silly to call it cheating.

The only team getting cheated here are v the patriots, who followed the rules and were blind sided by science and false accusations when they're supposed to be preparing for the superbowl. Obviously the league will issue am apology but by then it will be to late to make up for lost preparation time. And in the process, they've unnecessarily and unfairly tarnished the reputations of the greatest qb and coach in n the history of the league. shameful.

Weren't the Pats' backup balls filled at the same time as their starting balls? But the backup balls didn't drop in psi.

actually, they likely did, but weren't doublechecked until they had warmed back up.

Assume they were inflated to 12.5 psi. The entire 1st half, they sit in the comfy confines of the referees locker room. When they are needed, they are brought onto the field of play. When they reach steady state temp of, say, 47, their pressure would drop to 11.4 psi. After the game, they are brought back into the lockerroom. The referees aren't under a time crunch to get them checked out now, they take a shower and fill out paperwork first. The balls are allowed to re-acclimate to room temperature and are pressure-checked, after they have warmed back up to a balmy 68 dF. The pressure reading would be exactly 12.5 psi.

 

[Old Smiley]

I'd say a lot of current and former players have spoken out about this and disagree with your assessment here. It makes the QB's grip and feel better, leading to better accuracy. And both d-linemen and running backs (Bettis is an example) have said it's harder to force fumbles because runners can grip the ball better.

That's not proving something, that's saying something.

 

[shader]

Or what if the Colts balls previously were 13.5 psi?

So what if the Colts balls were previously 13.5 psi? If the claim is that the weather knocked the balls down by 1.78 psi then that would have made the Colts balls' out of spec too. As far as we know (not a fact yet), they weren't out of spec though, hence I don't see how the weather could have had a 1.78 psi drop unless the Colts' balls were OVERinflated to 14.5+ psi to start.

I just can't think up a scenario where the Patriots balls dropped by 2 PSI due to the weather but both the Colts' balls and the Patriots' replacement balls didn't.

I get your point...but you are assuming that all those facts are true.

Right now you believe the Peter King article that the Colts balls were all measured. I get that. There's no reason to not believe it, as it's reported as fact and he's a reputable reporter.

But what if you personally re-created the circumstances of that day and tested 1,000 balls. And then what if 1,000 balls ALL lost 1.5-2 psi.

I think you would then begin to wonder if that report by Peter King was correct.

That's all I'm trying to say. If balls lose pressure in cold weather, the whole thing is a non-issue.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

there's a simple explanation for how the Colts footballs would remain unchanged and n it had nothing b to do v with the Colts over inflating theirs.

They filled their balls outside and the pats didn't. Which makes sense if you're the visiting team, and also if you intend to have the balls investigated later in the game.

Is there a rule related to air temperature in the ball? I haven't seen one posted. Is there a rule about where balls may be b filled? Of course not.

A properly inflated ball drops in pressure throughout the game and becomes softer as the game goes on. That's not cheating, it's nature. If the nfl wanted to put a rule in place to ensure that effect didn't happen, that's fine, but its silly to call it cheating.

The only team getting cheated here are v the patriots, who followed the rules and were blind sided by science and false accusations when they're supposed to be preparing for the superbowl. Obviously the league will issue am apology but by then it will be to late to make up for lost preparation time. And in the process, they've unnecessarily and unfairly tarnished the reputations of the greatest qb and coach in n the history of the league. shameful.

Weren't the Pats' backup balls filled at the same time as their starting balls? But the backup balls didn't drop in psi.

actually, they likely did, but weren't doublechecked until they had warmed back up.

Assume they were inflated to 12.5 psi. The entire 1st half, they sit in the comfy confines of the referees locker room. When they are needed, they are brought onto the field of play. When they reach steady state temp of, say, 47, their pressure would drop to 11.4 psi. After the game, they are brought back into the lockerroom. The referees aren't under a time crunch to get them checked out now, they take a shower and fill out paperwork first. The balls are allowed to re-acclimate to room temperature and are pressure-checked, after they have warmed back up to a balmy 68 dF. The pressure reading would be exactly 12.5 psi.

Does increasing the temperature put pressure that has been lost back in the ball? I'm no scientist so I'm asking here, but when it warms up outside my car tires don't magically get more air in them. At least not that I've noticed.

 

[12punch]

there's a simple explanation for how the Colts footballs would remain unchanged and n it had nothing b to do v with the Colts over inflating theirs.

They filled their balls outside and the pats didn't. Which makes sense if you're the visiting team, and also if you intend to have the balls investigated later in the game.

Is there a rule related to air temperature in the ball? I haven't seen one posted. Is there a rule about where balls may be b filled? Of course not.

A properly inflated ball drops in pressure throughout the game and becomes softer as the game goes on. That's not cheating, it's nature. If the nfl wanted to put a rule in place to ensure that effect didn't happen, that's fine, but its silly to call it cheating.

The only team getting cheated here are v the patriots, who followed the rules and were blind sided by science and false accusations when they're supposed to be preparing for the superbowl. Obviously the league will issue am apology but by then it will be to late to make up for lost preparation time. And in the process, they've unnecessarily and unfairly tarnished the reputations of the greatest qb and coach in n the history of the league. shameful.

Weren't the Pats' backup balls filled at the same time as their starting balls? But the backup balls didn't drop in psi.

actually, they likely did, but weren't doublechecked until they had warmed back up.

Assume they were inflated to 12.5 psi. The entire 1st half, they sit in the comfy confines of the referees locker room. When they are needed, they are brought onto the field of play. When they reach steady state temp of, say, 47, their pressure would drop to 11.4 psi. After the game, they are brought back into the lockerroom. The referees aren't under a time crunch to get them checked out now, they take a shower and fill out paperwork first. The balls are allowed to re-acclimate to room temperature and are pressure-checked, after they have warmed back up to a balmy 68 dF. The pressure reading would be exactly 12.5 psi.

is that the screenplay you're submitting?

 

[Steelers4Life]

I'd say a lot of current and former players have spoken out about this and disagree with your assessment here. It makes the QB's grip and feel better, leading to better accuracy. And both d-linemen and running backs (Bettis is an example) have said it's harder to force fumbles because runners can grip the ball better.

That's not proving something, that's saying something.

Well, when professionals who do this stuff for a living say it, it's pretty much proof to me. If quarterbacks say it makes a difference, it makes a difference. And I can go pick up my own football, take 2 PSI out of it, and grip it.... shockingly, my grip will be better because I can squeeze it harder because there's less air pressure in it.

 

[moleculo]

there's a simple explanation for how the Colts footballs would remain unchanged and n it had nothing b to do v with the Colts over inflating theirs.

They filled their balls outside and the pats didn't. Which makes sense if you're the visiting team, and also if you intend to have the balls investigated later in the game.

Is there a rule related to air temperature in the ball? I haven't seen one posted. Is there a rule about where balls may be b filled? Of course not.

A properly inflated ball drops in pressure throughout the game and becomes softer as the game goes on. That's not cheating, it's nature. If the nfl wanted to put a rule in place to ensure that effect didn't happen, that's fine, but its silly to call it cheating.

The only team getting cheated here are v the patriots, who followed the rules and were blind sided by science and false accusations when they're supposed to be preparing for the superbowl. Obviously the league will issue am apology but by then it will be to late to make up for lost preparation time. And in the process, they've unnecessarily and unfairly tarnished the reputations of the greatest qb and coach in n the history of the league. shameful.

Weren't the Pats' backup balls filled at the same time as their starting balls? But the backup balls didn't drop in psi.

actually, they likely did, but weren't doublechecked until they had warmed back up.

Assume they were inflated to 12.5 psi. The entire 1st half, they sit in the comfy confines of the referees locker room. When they are needed, they are brought onto the field of play. When they reach steady state temp of, say, 47, their pressure would drop to 11.4 psi. After the game, they are brought back into the lockerroom. The referees aren't under a time crunch to get them checked out now, they take a shower and fill out paperwork first. The balls are allowed to re-acclimate to room temperature and are pressure-checked, after they have warmed back up to a balmy 68 dF. The pressure reading would be exactly 12.5 psi.

Does increasing the temperature put pressure that has been lost back in the ball? I'm no scientist so I'm asking here, but when it warms up outside my car tires don't magically get more air in them. At least not that I've noticed.

yes it would. In theory, it's a completely reversible process. Things expand when they heat up, and contract when they cool off...that's whats happening here.

I say in theory because there may be minuscule effects that are not reversible, like the elastic of the ball taking a permanent set, air leaking through miniscule holes, moisture migrating through the bladder changing the internal partial pressure, things like that. I have to assume these effects are negligible - less than 1% of the overall effect.

Your car tires, by the way, do have a higher pressure when they are warm. Check it out. Check your tire pressure first thing in the morning, drive 100 miles, and re-check...I promise it's higher afterwards.

 

[shader]

It bothers me that we are all using such generic measurements here.

The balls were all 12.5. All of them were? Really?

The Patriots balls were found to be 2 pounds under spec. All of them were exactly 2 pounds? Seriously?

It's a makeshift, non-technical measurement done to provide a basic level of air pressure inside the footballs. The NFL obviously doesn't keep records of it or keep track of what exactly is done.

If you throw in the weather potentially causing significant changes in PSI, you have the makings of the NFL being in a situation where they can't prove ANYTHING....yet they've allowed a story to blow up bigger than any NFL story in years.

 

[12punch]

there's a simple explanation for how the Colts footballs would remain unchanged and n it had nothing b to do v with the Colts over inflating theirs.

They filled their balls outside and the pats didn't. Which makes sense if you're the visiting team, and also if you intend to have the balls investigated later in the game.

Is there a rule related to air temperature in the ball? I haven't seen one posted. Is there a rule about where balls may be b filled? Of course not.

A properly inflated ball drops in pressure throughout the game and becomes softer as the game goes on. That's not cheating, it's nature. If the nfl wanted to put a rule in place to ensure that effect didn't happen, that's fine, but its silly to call it cheating.

The only team getting cheated here are v the patriots, who followed the rules and were blind sided by science and false accusations when they're supposed to be preparing for the superbowl. Obviously the league will issue am apology but by then it will be to late to make up for lost preparation time. And in the process, they've unnecessarily and unfairly tarnished the reputations of the greatest qb and coach in n the history of the league. shameful.

Weren't the Pats' backup balls filled at the same time as their starting balls? But the backup balls didn't drop in psi.

actually, they likely did, but weren't doublechecked until they had warmed back up.

Assume they were inflated to 12.5 psi. The entire 1st half, they sit in the comfy confines of the referees locker room. When they are needed, they are brought onto the field of play. When they reach steady state temp of, say, 47, their pressure would drop to 11.4 psi. After the game, they are brought back into the lockerroom. The referees aren't under a time crunch to get them checked out now, they take a shower and fill out paperwork first. The balls are allowed to re-acclimate to room temperature and are pressure-checked, after they have warmed back up to a balmy 68 dF. The pressure reading would be exactly 12.5 psi.

Does increasing the temperature put pressure that has been lost back in the ball? I'm no scientist so I'm asking here, but when it warms up outside my car tires don't magically get more air in them. At least not that I've noticed.

you could do an experiment --- take a plastic ketchup bottle and put it in your microwave

 

[shader]

there's a simple explanation for how the Colts footballs would remain unchanged and n it had nothing b to do v with the Colts over inflating theirs.

They filled their balls outside and the pats didn't. Which makes sense if you're the visiting team, and also if you intend to have the balls investigated later in the game.

Is there a rule related to air temperature in the ball? I haven't seen one posted. Is there a rule about where balls may be b filled? Of course not.

A properly inflated ball drops in pressure throughout the game and becomes softer as the game goes on. That's not cheating, it's nature. If the nfl wanted to put a rule in place to ensure that effect didn't happen, that's fine, but its silly to call it cheating.

The only team getting cheated here are v the patriots, who followed the rules and were blind sided by science and false accusations when they're supposed to be preparing for the superbowl. Obviously the league will issue am apology but by then it will be to late to make up for lost preparation time. And in the process, they've unnecessarily and unfairly tarnished the reputations of the greatest qb and coach in n the history of the league. shameful.

Weren't the Pats' backup balls filled at the same time as their starting balls? But the backup balls didn't drop in psi.

actually, they likely did, but weren't doublechecked until they had warmed back up.

Assume they were inflated to 12.5 psi. The entire 1st half, they sit in the comfy confines of the referees locker room. When they are needed, they are brought onto the field of play. When they reach steady state temp of, say, 47, their pressure would drop to 11.4 psi. After the game, they are brought back into the lockerroom. The referees aren't under a time crunch to get them checked out now, they take a shower and fill out paperwork first. The balls are allowed to re-acclimate to room temperature and are pressure-checked, after they have warmed back up to a balmy 68 dF. The pressure reading would be exactly 12.5 psi.

Does increasing the temperature put pressure that has been lost back in the ball? I'm no scientist so I'm asking here, but when it warms up outside my car tires don't magically get more air in them. At least not that I've noticed.

Actually they do. Your tires lose psi and gain psi based on temperature. But then, it's probably not much. Just a couple PSI

 

[bostonfred]

there's a simple explanation for how the Colts footballs would remain unchanged and n it had nothing b to do v with the Colts over inflating theirs.

They filled their balls outside and the pats didn't. Which makes sense if you're the visiting team, and also if you intend to have the balls investigated later in the game.

Is there a rule related to air temperature in the ball? I haven't seen one posted. Is there a rule about where balls may be b filled? Of course not.

A properly inflated ball drops in pressure throughout the game and becomes softer as the game goes on. That's not cheating, it's nature. If the nfl wanted to put a rule in place to ensure that effect didn't happen, that's fine, but its silly to call it cheating.

The only team getting cheated here are v the patriots, who followed the rules and were blind sided by science and false accusations when they're supposed to be preparing for the superbowl. Obviously the league will issue am apology but by then it will be to late to make up for lost preparation time. And in the process, they've unnecessarily and unfairly tarnished the reputations of the greatest qb and coach in n the history of the league. shameful.

Weren't the Pats' backup balls filled at the same time as their starting balls? But the backup balls didn't drop in psi.

actually, they likely did, but weren't doublechecked until they had warmed back up.Assume they were inflated to 12.5 psi. The entire 1st half, they sit in the comfy confines of the referees locker room. When they are needed, they are brought onto the field of play. When they reach steady state temp of, say, 47, their pressure would drop to 11.4 psi. After the game, they are brought back into the lockerroom. The referees aren't under a time crunch to get them checked out now, they take a shower and fill out paperwork first. The balls are allowed to re-acclimate to room temperature and are pressure-checked, after they have warmed back up to a balmy 68 dF. The pressure reading would be exactly 12.5 psi.

Does increasing the temperature put pressure that has been lost back in the ball? I'm no scientist so I'm asking here, but when it warms up outside my car tires don't magically get more air in them. At least not that I've noticed.

Actually, they do. ask any auto mechanic or tire salesman - cold weather is the runaway number one reason people get a low tire pressure warning in the winter. Or check the gas pump next time you do self serve. You'll see a warning explaining how the gallon of gas you're buying is measured with a formula and a notice that temperature may affect the actual volume pumped.

Deflate gate is really the story of our national shame - poor science education.

 

[moleculo]

there's a simple explanation for how the Colts footballs would remain unchanged and n it had nothing b to do v with the Colts over inflating theirs.

They filled their balls outside and the pats didn't. Which makes sense if you're the visiting team, and also if you intend to have the balls investigated later in the game.

Is there a rule related to air temperature in the ball? I haven't seen one posted. Is there a rule about where balls may be b filled? Of course not.

A properly inflated ball drops in pressure throughout the game and becomes softer as the game goes on. That's not cheating, it's nature. If the nfl wanted to put a rule in place to ensure that effect didn't happen, that's fine, but its silly to call it cheating.

The only team getting cheated here are v the patriots, who followed the rules and were blind sided by science and false accusations when they're supposed to be preparing for the superbowl. Obviously the league will issue am apology but by then it will be to late to make up for lost preparation time. And in the process, they've unnecessarily and unfairly tarnished the reputations of the greatest qb and coach in n the history of the league. shameful.

Weren't the Pats' backup balls filled at the same time as their starting balls? But the backup balls didn't drop in psi.

actually, they likely did, but weren't doublechecked until they had warmed back up.Assume they were inflated to 12.5 psi. The entire 1st half, they sit in the comfy confines of the referees locker room. When they are needed, they are brought onto the field of play. When they reach steady state temp of, say, 47, their pressure would drop to 11.4 psi. After the game, they are brought back into the lockerroom. The referees aren't under a time crunch to get them checked out now, they take a shower and fill out paperwork first. The balls are allowed to re-acclimate to room temperature and are pressure-checked, after they have warmed back up to a balmy 68 dF. The pressure reading would be exactly 12.5 psi.

Does increasing the temperature put pressure that has been lost back in the ball? I'm no scientist so I'm asking here, but when it warms up outside my car tires don't magically get more air in them. At least not that I've noticed.

Actually, they do. ask any auto mechanic or tire salesman - cold weather is the runaway number one reason people get a low tire pressure warning in the winter.Or check the gas pump next time you do self serve. You'll see a warning explaining how the gallon of gas you're buying is measured with a formula and a notice that temperature may affect the actual volume pumped.

Deflate gate is really the story of our national shame - poor science education.

sadly, this is true.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Or what if the Colts balls previously were 13.5 psi?

So what if the Colts balls were previously 13.5 psi? If the claim is that the weather knocked the balls down by 1.78 psi then that would have made the Colts balls' out of spec too. As far as we know (not a fact yet), they weren't out of spec though, hence I don't see how the weather could have had a 1.78 psi drop unless the Colts' balls were OVERinflated to 14.5+ psi to start.

I just can't think up a scenario where the Patriots balls dropped by 2 PSI due to the weather but both the Colts' balls and the Patriots' replacement balls didn't.

I get your point...but you are assuming that all those facts are true.

Right now you believe the Peter King article that the Colts balls were all measured. I get that. There's no reason to not believe it, as it's reported as fact and he's a reputable reporter.

But what if you personally re-created the circumstances of that day and tested 1,000 balls. And then what if 1,000 balls ALL lost 1.5-2 psi.

I think you would then begin to wonder if that report by Peter King was correct.

That's all I'm trying to say. If balls lose pressure in cold weather, the whole thing is a non-issue.

What you're missing is that this investigation is taking place BECAUSE the balls were tested and they got those results.

If the NFL had tested those balls and they ALL had lost 2+ PSI, this would be a non-issue and there wouldn't be an investigation at all. The results of those tests are what led the NFL to dig deeper into it to find out what happened to the Patriots balls. Unless you think this is one big conspiracy manufactured by the NFL and designed to both bring down the Patriots and cast a shadow over the entire Super Bowl.

And from there, you can come up with your own conclusions.

 

[12punch]

there's a simple explanation for how the Colts footballs would remain unchanged and n it had nothing b to do v with the Colts over inflating theirs.

They filled their balls outside and the pats didn't. Which makes sense if you're the visiting team, and also if you intend to have the balls investigated later in the game.

Is there a rule related to air temperature in the ball? I haven't seen one posted. Is there a rule about where balls may be b filled? Of course not.

A properly inflated ball drops in pressure throughout the game and becomes softer as the game goes on. That's not cheating, it's nature. If the nfl wanted to put a rule in place to ensure that effect didn't happen, that's fine, but its silly to call it cheating.

The only team getting cheated here are v the patriots, who followed the rules and were blind sided by science and false accusations when they're supposed to be preparing for the superbowl. Obviously the league will issue am apology but by then it will be to late to make up for lost preparation time. And in the process, they've unnecessarily and unfairly tarnished the reputations of the greatest qb and coach in n the history of the league. shameful.

Weren't the Pats' backup balls filled at the same time as their starting balls? But the backup balls didn't drop in psi.

actually, they likely did, but weren't doublechecked until they had warmed back up.

Assume they were inflated to 12.5 psi. The entire 1st half, they sit in the comfy confines of the referees locker room. When they are needed, they are brought onto the field of play. When they reach steady state temp of, say, 47, their pressure would drop to 11.4 psi. After the game, they are brought back into the lockerroom. The referees aren't under a time crunch to get them checked out now, they take a shower and fill out paperwork first. The balls are allowed to re-acclimate to room temperature and are pressure-checked, after they have warmed back up to a balmy 68 dF. The pressure reading would be exactly 12.5 psi.

Does increasing the temperature put pressure that has been lost back in the ball? I'm no scientist so I'm asking here, but when it warms up outside my car tires don't magically get more air in them. At least not that I've noticed.

that's not what's going on, and yes, when your tires heat up they repressurize --- it's gaining and losing pressure, not atmosphere.

gas expands when heated and 'shrinks' when cooled

it's very common for a tire light in your car to maybe pop on if it sits out overnight in the winter, but after the tires heat up from driving around the pressure will return to normal.

this is what they were teaching you in high school when you were napping in the back row

 

[General Tso]

To all the people who've already judged the Patriots guilty.... How do you feel about Aaron Rodgers submitting footballs for inspection that are above spec - say at 14.0? Does you call this cheating?

 

[bostonfred]

Or what if the Colts balls previously were 13.5 psi?

So what if the Colts balls were previously 13.5 psi? If the claim is that the weather knocked the balls down by 1.78 psi then that would have made the Colts balls' out of spec too. As far as we know (not a fact yet), they weren't out of spec though, hence I don't see how the weather could have had a 1.78 psi drop unless the Colts' balls were OVERinflated to 14.5+ psi to start.

I just can't think up a scenario where the Patriots balls dropped by 2 PSI due to the weather but both the Colts' balls and the Patriots' replacement balls didn't.

Where were the replacement balls stored? Indoors or outdoors? Near the warm benches or in play on the field? Did they bring them inside? Any of those things could easily explain the difference.

 

[12punch]

Does increasing the temperature put pressure that has been lost back in the ball? I'm no scientist so I'm asking here, but when it warms up outside my car tires don't magically get more air in them. At least not that I've noticed.

I would say this not only sums up 100% of this thread, but maybe 80% of this board ---- and unfortunately, possibly 50% of the general american public