Patriots Cutting Randy Moss? (2 Viewers)

[jeter23]

ESPN's Bill Simmons, an admitted and annoying Patriots fan, mentions in his latest column the idea that the Patriots will be rebuilding this offseason. Although his article was supposed to cover the entire 2nd round of the playoffs, much of it was focused on Brady, Belichick etc, to the surprise of no one.

Here is an interesting quote from the article:

Quick follow-up: Pats fans are all over the map on last Sunday's blowout. My take is pretty simple: We've had four years of lousy drafts and five years of bad breaks dating back to Tedy Bruschi's stroke one month after Super Bowl XXXIX. The Pats from 2001-04 thrived because of good drafting, superior coaching, fantastic game plans and, yes, lucky breaks. Those four traits eventually faded away. And now we're here. From what I'm hearing, Belichick is finally and belatedly blowing this thing up: flipping half the roster, dumping Randy Moss and Adalius Thomas, hiring new coordinators (one's already gone), splurging in free agency and either signing or drafting a stud running back to take pressure off Brady. Whether a 58-year-old man can rebuild this franchise AND coach it remains to be seen. I just know it's never been done before.

I guess I am not sure how much validity to place on this. The way I read it, it feels like he has some kind of source, but he is certainly not a reporter. Is this just his opinion? Has there been any other speculation that Moss could be cut?

 

[BigJim®]

Pretty dumb idea if true. Moss is the kind of difference maker you need and want to build a team around. Cutting him doesn't do anything for the Pats, other than making things significantly tougher for Brady.

 

[inzanitee]

Wow. Would be huge.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Randy is welcome on the Giants, ramp up for one year of good citizenship in NYC in an uncapped year and make a push before the lockout. He's probably got one more top flight year left in him.

 

[vasco75]

Doubt that Moss goes anywhere in 2010.

Especially during an uncapped year and Welker most likely starting the season on the PUP list...

 

[munchkin]

ESPN's Bill Simmons, an admitted and annoying Patriots fan, mentions in his latest column the idea that the Patriots will be rebuilding this offseason. Although his article was supposed to cover the entire 2nd round of the playoffs, much of it was focused on Brady, Belichick etc, to the surprise of no one.

Here is an interesting quote from the article:

Quick follow-up: Pats fans are all over the map on last Sunday's blowout. My take is pretty simple: We've had four years of lousy drafts and five years of bad breaks dating back to Tedy Bruschi's stroke one month after Super Bowl XXXIX. The Pats from 2001-04 thrived because of good drafting, superior coaching, fantastic game plans and, yes, lucky breaks. Those four traits eventually faded away. And now we're here. From what I'm hearing, Belichick is finally and belatedly blowing this thing up: flipping half the roster, dumping Randy Moss and Adalius Thomas, hiring new coordinators (one's already gone), splurging in free agency and either signing or drafting a stud running back to take pressure off Brady. Whether a 58-year-old man can rebuild this franchise AND coach it remains to be seen. I just know it's never been done before.

I guess I am not sure how much validity to place on this. The way I read it, it feels like he has some kind of source, but he is certainly not a reporter. Is this just his opinion? Has there been any other speculation that Moss could be cut?

How old is Bill Simmons, 15? Belichik's age of 58 is completely irrelevant. Based on that statement alone I would say this article is merritless.

 

[kevthegrad]

Moss disappears when Welker is sitting somewhere with his knee in 5 pieces? Is this guy kidding?

Dumb....if they dump Moss they are idiots.

 

[JetMaxx]

How fast would the Jets call Moss' agent if he were released?

 

[Mello]

I think Moss has lost a step and I could see the Patriots letting him go....if they had a decent young replacement for him. Aiken and Stanback aren't the answer so it would be dumb to release him now.

 

[=Smackdown=]

How fast would the Jets call Moss' agent if he were released?

. . . . please hold . . . .Not as fast as the Dolphins would

 

[Da Guru]

Pretty dumb idea if true. Moss is the kind of difference maker you need and want to build a team around. Cutting him doesn't do anything for the Pats, other than making things significantly tougher for Brady.

Moss is a difference maker and not always in a good way.

 

[Stillers Jr.]

Knowing the Pats, they'll figure out a way to trade him to the Lions for their first rounder for the next 3 years.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Knowing the Pats, they'll figure out a way to trade him to the Lions for their first rounder for the next 3 years.

Jerry Jones likes to overspend on WRs too.

 

[comfortably numb]

ESPN's Bill Simmons, an admitted and annoying Patriots fan, mentions in his latest column the idea that the Patriots will be rebuilding this offseason. Although his article was supposed to cover the entire 2nd round of the playoffs, much of it was focused on Brady, Belichick etc, to the surprise of no one.

Here is an interesting quote from the article:

Quick follow-up: Pats fans are all over the map on last Sunday's blowout. My take is pretty simple: We've had four years of lousy drafts and five years of bad breaks dating back to Tedy Bruschi's stroke one month after Super Bowl XXXIX. The Pats from 2001-04 thrived because of good drafting, superior coaching, fantastic game plans and, yes, lucky breaks. Those four traits eventually faded away. And now we're here. From what I'm hearing, Belichick is finally and belatedly blowing this thing up: flipping half the roster, dumping Randy Moss and Adalius Thomas, hiring new coordinators (one's already gone), splurging in free agency and either signing or drafting a stud running back to take pressure off Brady. Whether a 58-year-old man can rebuild this franchise AND coach it remains to be seen. I just know it's never been done before.

I guess I am not sure how much validity to place on this. The way I read it, it feels like he has some kind of source, but he is certainly not a reporter. Is this just his opinion? Has there been any other speculation that Moss could be cut?

So, draft a rookie stud RB...hope he knows how to pick up the blitz to to "take the pressure off Brady" and release a HOF WR who is a top the league for WR's and this is gonna help Brady how?

 

[Deepster]

How old is Bill Simmons, 15? Belichik's age of 58 is completely irrelevant. Based on that statement alone I would say this article is merritless.

He's actually gone into more detail on the age thing before and it's interesting. I don't think there's been more than 1 or 2 NFL head coaches to win a Super Bowl over the age of 55. His points being.....1) They just don't have that same fire in their belly to work 20 hour days when they get older.2) They aren't spending the offseasons scouting and as involved as younger, hungrier coaches.3) In cases like Belichick, he has 3 already and his reputation is cemented. Guys like Parcells and Gibbs, who returned when they were older, never got the job done. Can a 58 yr old really rebuild and retool the team how they need him to?I don't know. Some of the last 4-5 Patriots drafts have been poor. Questionable personnel decisions? Questionable game calling? Maybe he is slipping a little.

 

[Catbird]

While the 'dump' would be unlikely, I don't think the quote says anything about cutting Moss? Unless they are total idiots, dumping would mean trading him for a building block or blocks - which Moss won't be unless the program is going to be re-built while Moss is still top shelf - which means building for a 1-3 year window starting now. I don't think Moss is a building block for a new dynasty, since he won't be here for it. Getting huge value while he is a top 5 WR could make some sense, if the Pats aren't thinking championship for the next couple of years?

 

[CalBear]

How old is Bill Simmons, 15? Belichik's age of 58 is completely irrelevant. Based on that statement alone I would say this article is merritless.

He's actually gone into more detail on the age thing before and it's interesting. I don't think there's been more than 1 or 2 NFL head coaches to win a Super Bowl over the age of 55.

How many current head coaches are over 55?

 

[munchkin]

How old is Bill Simmons, 15? Belichik's age of 58 is completely irrelevant. Based on that statement alone I would say this article is merritless.

He's actually gone into more detail on the age thing before and it's interesting. I don't think there's been more than 1 or 2 NFL head coaches to win a Super Bowl over the age of 55. His points being.....1) They just don't have that same fire in their belly to work 20 hour days when they get older.

2) They aren't spending the offseasons scouting and as involved as younger, hungrier coaches.

3) In cases like Belichick, he has 3 already and his reputation is cemented. Guys like Parcells and Gibbs, who returned when they were older, never got the job done. Can a 58 yr old really rebuild and retool the team how they need him to?

I don't know. Some of the last 4-5 Patriots drafts have been poor. Questionable personnel decisions? Questionable game calling? Maybe he is slipping a little.

Then this guy knows nothing about Belichick if he thinks this guy has lost the fire to be successful. I don't think he believes he nor any of his players have their reputation cemented at the beginning of any given season (from a football standpoint); each year is new and players and coaches alike have to show they can live up to the team's high standards.This is an important off season for the team. They have shown that they do not have an upper echelon roster. They lack skill players on offense and impact players on defense. He does not have players that can effectively carry out his game plans and defensive schemes. I do think he has made a number of very poor personnel decisions but I don't question his desire to win.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Assuming his knee is even better next year and he returns more to form, Brady doesn't need Randy Moss. He did just fine without Moss from '01-'06 (averaging 25 TD passes a season), and with his best WRs being guys like David Givens, Troy Brown and Deion Branch. And at least those guys stepped up and made plays in the playoffs, unlike Moss, who, in four playoff games, has 12-142-1. Yeah, it is a small sample size, but he simply has not stepped up in the postseason for them. His TD catch near the end of the Super Bowl is the only big play he has made for them in four playoff games. That isn't getting it done. Give Brady a stud RB (like when he had Dillon in '04) and a bunch of good/very good WRs, and their offense will be just fine, and likely more effective in January again.

 

[David Yudkin]

Makes no sense. The Pats current WR corps has Moss, Welker (hurt for the immediate future), Edelman, Tate (hurt for the immediate future with another ligament tear), Aiken, Slater, and Stanback. Moss is the only healthy guy with any real experience.

BTW - I asked around, and pretty much there are 1,001 rumors about what possibly could happen with the sky falling and all, but no one else seems to have heard much about this.

 

[Catbird]

Can a 58 yr old really rebuild and retool the team how they need him to?

Numbers say pretty much what you want them to, but drawing a line at 55 for head coaches is ... uninformed.

Since 2000, just rough gauging, there has been one superbowl won by a coach under 40 (Tomlin), three by guys between 40 and 50 (Billick, Gruden and Cowher - at 49), four by guys between 50 and 60 (three by Belicheck and 1 by Dungy) and 2 by guys over 60 (Vermeil and Coughlin). Slice that up how you want. Sixty percent were won by guys over 50? Ninety percent won by guys over 45? Eighty percent won by guys under 60?

Of the 12 playoff head coaches this year, 4 are under 50 (1 younger than 47). Three are 57 or older. The other 5 are between 50 and 56.

Its a matter of whether you have the drive and singlemindedness, creative thought process, discipline, communication skills ... all the elements. I just don't think it makes any sense (or reflects reality) to draw some line at a 55th birthday and say you are too old - but I'll grant you that 65 (Parcells' age) would be pushing it to run an NFL team.

 

[Sleeping King]

Anyone that has ever followed Bill Simmons should know one thing. You listen to what he says about the Celtics and nothing else. I've never heard him hit on any rumor about the Pats, Sox or Bruins.

 

[TommyGilmore]

Simmons is becoming the TMZ of the sports world.

 

[mozzy84]

I think Moss has lost a step and I could see the Patriots letting him go....if they had a decent young replacement for him. Aiken and Stanback aren't the answer so it would be dumb to release him now.

wasnt he top 5 in receiving and tops in td's just this year?

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

"profootballtalk" had the scoop on being wrong about this in 2007.

 

[LAUNCH]

No one is going to dump their team before the lockout.

 

[Mello]

I think Moss has lost a step and I could see the Patriots letting him go....if they had a decent young replacement for him. Aiken and Stanback aren't the answer so it would be dumb to release him now.

wasnt he top 5 in receiving and tops in td's just this year?

He's obviously still a good WR for fantasy football and is value to the Pats. He just seemed to decline over the second half of the year. He seemed to have trouble getting separation from defenders. I'll take it back some though. After looking at the stats, the last few Pats games I watched (BAL, CAR, @NO) were his 3 worst games over that stretch.

 

[TommyGilmore]

How old is Bill Simmons, 15? Belichik's age of 58 is completely irrelevant. Based on that statement alone I would say this article is merritless.

That's too bad that you would be so quick to dismiss. Simmons has a pretty good argument about coaches over the age of 55:The Speed Limit Corollary

 

[munchkin]

How old is Bill Simmons, 15? Belichik's age of 58 is completely irrelevant. Based on that statement alone I would say this article is merritless.

That's too bad that you would be so quick to dismiss. Simmons has a pretty good argument about coaches over the age of 55:The Speed Limit Corollary

Just because he has a good argument doesn't mean it applies across the board. I have seen nor heard nothing about Belichik slacking off or losing interest. The man is as driven to succeed as any coach in the NFL. That doesn't mean he is without fault; I am all ears if someone want to point out the error of his ways but to question his dedication to his craft based on his age alone is folly.

 

[aerolaw]

How fast would the Jets call Moss' agent if he were released?

. . . . please hold . . . .Not as fast as the Dolphins would

Thats an ignorant comment about the Dolphins. Parcells would never consider an overpaid,immature, aging and lazy head case of a WR for his team. A player that doesnt give his all every game, and every play, will not be on Parcells team, ever. Cant question the talent, only the fact that you never know when it will show up.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

How fast would the Jets call Moss' agent if he were released?

. . . . please hold . . . .Not as fast as the Dolphins would

Thats an ignorant comment about the Dolphins. Parcells would never consider an overpaid,immature, aging and lazy head case of a WR for his team. A player that doesnt give his all every game, and every play, will not be on Parcells team, ever. Cant question the talent, only the fact that you never know when it will show up.

KeyShawn? Glenn?

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

I think the probability of this happening is about -5²%.

 

[TommyGilmore]

How old is Bill Simmons, 15? Belichik's age of 58 is completely irrelevant. Based on that statement alone I would say this article is merritless.

That's too bad that you would be so quick to dismiss. Simmons has a pretty good argument about coaches over the age of 55:The Speed Limit Corollary

Just because he has a good argument doesn't mean it applies across the board. I have seen nor heard nothing about Belichik slacking off or losing interest.

ESPN Poll: "Is Bill Belichick losing his touch?"Take away the homer votes and the consensus says "yes". The mere fact that ESPN published the article in the first place is proof that rumblings were there.

 

[aerolaw]

How fast would the Jets call Moss' agent if he were released?

. . . . please hold . . . .Not as fast as the Dolphins would

Thats an ignorant comment about the Dolphins. Parcells would never consider an overpaid,immature, aging and lazy head case of a WR for his team. A player that doesnt give his all every game, and every play, will not be on Parcells team, ever. Cant question the talent, only the fact that you never know when it will show up.

KeyShawn? Glenn?

what about em? those were not players that took whole games off when the mood suited them, or gave effort when they felt like it. not when playing for Parcells, that i can remember. And here your talking about bringing a guy in when its already known what he's about. No comparison that i can see

 

[domvin]

ESPN's Bill Simmons, an admitted and annoying Patriots fan, mentions in his latest column the idea that the Patriots will be rebuilding this offseason. Although his article was supposed to cover the entire 2nd round of the playoffs, much of it was focused on Brady, Belichick etc, to the surprise of no one.

Here is an interesting quote from the article:

Quick follow-up: Pats fans are all over the map on last Sunday's blowout. My take is pretty simple: We've had four years of lousy drafts and five years of bad breaks dating back to Tedy Bruschi's stroke one month after Super Bowl XXXIX. The Pats from 2001-04 thrived because of good drafting, superior coaching, fantastic game plans and, yes, lucky breaks. Those four traits eventually faded away. And now we're here. From what I'm hearing, Belichick is finally and belatedly blowing this thing up: flipping half the roster, dumping Randy Moss and Adalius Thomas, hiring new coordinators (one's already gone), splurging in free agency and either signing or drafting a stud running back to take pressure off Brady. Whether a 58-year-old man can rebuild this franchise AND coach it remains to be seen. I just know it's never been done before.

I guess I am not sure how much validity to place on this. The way I read it, it feels like he has some kind of source, but he is certainly not a reporter. Is this just his opinion? Has there been any other speculation that Moss could be cut?

Belichec has already been blowing this thing up. Dealing Seymour, Vrabel were ominous signs. They dealt Ellis Hobbs(cheaply/5th rounder), and let go of another db to sign with the eagles..... Asante Samuels prior.Just sounds like he needed a PAts story and the deadline arrived, so he came up with this.

 

[dickey moe]

I think the probability of this happening is about -5²%.

Is this 25% or -25%?

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Just sounds like he needed a PAts story and the deadline arrived, so he came up with this.

The funniest part is that, as mentioned in the OP, this article was ostensibly about teams that were still in the playoffs.

 

[domvin]

adding, referencing Adalius Thomas is not going out on a limb-the guy has been a healthy inactive several times, and apparently, there is a conflict between he and the coach, my guess is lack of work ethic. Coming in late during the snowstorms did not help him any

Wasn't Moss supposed to be cut two off-seasons ago, or something?

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

How many Super Bowl winning teams has Randy Moss been on? I wouldn't blame the Pats one bit for moving this guy. As talented as he is, he isn't the missing piece to a Super Bowl victory, especially at this stage in his career.

 

[Itchy Amos]

How many Super Bowl winning teams has Randy Moss been on? I wouldn't blame the Pats one bit for moving this guy. As talented as he is, he isn't the missing piece to a Super Bowl victory, especially at this stage in his career.

His team-mates seem to like him, Belichick often sings his praises and he produces at a high level. Its hard to imagine them moving forward without him. The Pats seem to have quite a few missing pieces right about now, but Moss isnt one of them IMHO. While its true that he has probably lost a step, he still commands a double team most of the time. He will continue to make things easier for the other WRs on the team. He still ended up with 13 TDs. That total could easily have been quite a bit higher. Brady missed him on several deep balls this year where he was wide open. I think his relative "lack" of production were due to a rusty/injured Tom Brady and a stale offensive game plan.

 

[Baron Samedi]

I think the probability of this happening is about -5²%.

Is this 25% or -25%?

The denominator of the fraction is zero therefore making the quotient zero

 

[TheDirtyWord]

I think the Pats have 3 2nd rounders in 2010.

I could see this: Trade 1st rounder for DeAngelo Williams and 2010 5th rounder. Trade last 2nd rounder to Broncos for Brandon Marshall. Waive Moss.

 

[Sinrman]

Knowing the Pats, they'll figure out a way to trade him to the Lions for their first rounder for the next 3 years.

Knowing our past history with drafts......... that might not be a bad thing

 

[Blackjacks]

I think the Pats have 3 2nd rounders in 2010.I could see this: Trade 1st rounder for DeAngelo Williams and 2010 5th rounder. Trade last 2nd rounder to Broncos for Brandon Marshall. Waive Moss.

I couls see Dallas getting involvede in a trade for his services as well

 

[Getinthemix]

No one is going to dump their team before the lockout.

You mean the lockout next year? If there is no cap, I think you might see a lot of players get dumped so that the teams can jettison guys not living up to their cap number without having to live with the cap penalty.

 

[hostile]

I think Moss has lost a step and I could see the Patriots letting him go....if they had a decent young replacement for him. Aiken and Stanback aren't the answer so it would be dumb to release him now.

Um, did you actually *watch* Moss play this year?It seemed to me like their OLine wasnt giving Brady enough time to let Moss' routes develop... but hey... if that is Moss losing a step, then so be it.

 

[Steed]

Makes no sense. The Pats current WR corps has Moss, Welker (hurt for the immediate future), Edelman, Tate (hurt for the immediate future with another ligament tear), Aiken, Slater, and Stanback. Moss is the only healthy guy with any real experience.

BTW - I asked around, and pretty much there are 1,001 rumors about what possibly could happen with the sky falling and all, but no one else seems to have heard much about this.

Are you saying Tate recently reinjured a ligament that he originally ruptured over a year and 3 months ago?

 

[David Yudkin]

Makes no sense. The Pats current WR corps has Moss, Welker (hurt for the immediate future), Edelman, Tate (hurt for the immediate future with another ligament tear), Aiken, Slater, and Stanback. Moss is the only healthy guy with any real experience.

BTW - I asked around, and pretty much there are 1,001 rumors about what possibly could happen with the sky falling and all, but no one else seems to have heard much about this.

Are you saying Tate recently reinjured a ligament that he originally ruptured over a year and 3 months ago?

I don't know if it's the same leg or not, but the scuttlebutt is that Tate tore a ligament again (unconfirmed, of course). But I would put that on a fairly high confidence level.

 

[hostile]

I think Moss has lost a step and I could see the Patriots letting him go....if they had a decent young replacement for him. Aiken and Stanback aren't the answer so it would be dumb to release him now.

Um, did you actually *watch* Moss play this year?It seemed to me like their OLine wasnt giving Brady enough time to let Moss' routes develop... but hey... if that is Moss losing a step, then so be it.

And if Belichick is "realist" and doesnt see that being fixed (right or wrong) anytime soon?LT Matt Light is among the others that may be cut.

Vollmer stepped in for Light and did a great job, but as a whole, I think their line is in pretty bad decline..

 

[m_moose]

Makes no sense. The Pats current WR corps has Moss, Welker (hurt for the immediate future), Edelman, Tate (hurt for the immediate future with another ligament tear), Aiken, Slater, and Stanback. Moss is the only healthy guy with any real experience.BTW - I asked around, and pretty much there are 1,001 rumors about what possibly could happen with the sky falling and all, but no one else seems to have heard much about this.

David, do you know if Tate's torn ligament is another ACL?