Patriots Rant by Chase Stuart (1 Viewer)

[PMENFAN]

Now I was out of the country in January 2004, so I couldn’t see the 2003 playoffs. New England beat Tennessee 17-14, after Brady led New England on a 13 yard drive to kick the eventual game winning field goal. That’s not a 13 play drive, but a 13 yard drive. Patriots supporters would say “Brady did enough to win”, but they needed a 46 yard kick from Vinatieri to win that game, hardly a gimme. Especially since The Most Clutch Playoff Kicker to Ever Miss Two Chip Shots in the Super Bowl had missed from 44 yards earlier. As it was, the kick from 46 just made it over the cross-bar. (Yes, I’m well aware this is Vinatieri’s patented move these days, and I sure hope he can do it again this weekend.)

From what I’ve read, Drew Bennett dropped a 4th down catch in the game’s final minute that could have given Tennessee a great chance to tie the game. Maybe Brady’s aura made his hands go numb. Brady threw for 201 yards on 41 passes, so this certainly was not his finest day. But the defense won it for the Pats, as a Rodney Harrison INT set up their critical TD.

We move to the AFC Championship game, where the Colts fell the Pats, 24-14. This it the Ty Law game, where Law intercepted three Manning passes. The Pats D was the story of the day, with 4 sacks and 4 INTs and a fumble recovery. The Colts defense wasn’t very good that year, but it did allow only one TD to the Pats. Brady played an alright game, but threw an INT at the Colts goal-line, which is inexcusable for any QB not named Brady. The Pats got a safety and five FGs, in part because Brady averaged just 5.46 AY/A. It’s no secret who the hero of this game was. And because I didn’t see the game, I won’t comment on the Patriots’ alleged mugging of the Colts receivers.

So Tom Brady’s 5-0, after being incredibly lucky in the first three playoff games, and having an incredible defense in the last two. Now comes the Super Bowl, where even I’ll admit Brady played an excellent game. He threw for 354 yards and 3 TDs, although to be fair that come on a whopping 48 attempts and he did throw an INT. It wasn’t one of the top ten Super Bowl stat lines of all time by a QB, and it wasn’t even the best by a QB that day. Jake Delhomme ate up The Genius’ D by throwing for 323 yards on 15 fewer passes, and had 3 TDs and zero INTs.

Adam Vinatieri missed two FGs that day, from 31 and 36 yards out. If the Panthers get a 2 point conversion, that game probably goes to overtime. Certainly Brady deserves credit for the W, but I’m not going to gush over him about it.

This postseason might actually be my favorite Tom Brady memory. First of all, McNair and Manning had been named co-MVPs that season. That's right, Steve McNair, with 3215 yards and 24 TDs, gets the rare co-MVP honors while Brady, who had 3620 and 23 TDs, didn't. And I'm not saying he should have. I have a lot of respect for what McNair did, with the help of a 1000 yard rusher and a 1300 yard receiver, while the Patriots had a 642 yard rusher lead the team, and an 803 yard receiver lead the team. But seeing McNair get the rare co-MVP honor, while Brady didn't even make the Pro Bowl, well, I was looking forward to this game. Fortunately, I couldn't get tickets to it. Normally, I'd say unfortunately. But the gametime temperature was somewhere between -5 and -10 degrees that day, before windchill. #### that, I'll watch this one at home with my friends. It was the kind of day where, just walking across the parking lot, you gain an appreciation for how someone could die of cold. And there were guys on both teams playing with short sleeves. Insane.

Brady's numbers at the end of the day - 21 for 41, 1 TD, 0 INT, 5 rushes for 5 yards - are decent but unspectacular. McNair's numbers - 18 for 26, 210 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, were fairly similar. So I can understand the comparison between the two. But, given the conditions, I don't think you can call it a bad game.

The next game was not -5 degrees. It was snowing. Nowhere near as badly as the Oakland game, but enough that it obscured visibility. 22 of 37 for 237 for 1 TD and 1 INT is nothing to write home about, but again, he outdueled a co-MVP. Manning was 23 of 47 for 237 and a TD (Chase, can you run the yards per pass for us on this one?). The killer was the 4 INTs. Did Law have a good game? Sure. Did Brady have Harrison, Wayne, Stokley, Clark and Pollard? Nope.

Brady outdueled both co-MVPs in the playoffs that year. For every accolade you want to heap on the Patriots defense, you have to give credit to the fact that both teams had a #1 receiver who had more yards than Branch and Givens combined, and a number one running back who had 350-550 yards more than Antowain Smith.

But the coup de grace came in the Superbowl, when Brady and Delhomme both exploded in the second half. Of course, the Panthers defense was, for the most part, intact, while the Patriots lost 3/4 of their starting defensive backfield. But Brady outdueled Delhomme anyways, and completed 32 of 48 for 354 yards, 3 TDs and 1 INT en route to a 32-29 victory in the final seconds.

Was Brady fortunate to have home field advantage? Yes, in the first two games. Was he fortunate to have his defense play better than his counterparts'? Yes again, in the first two games. Did he do more with fewer weapons than his counterparts? Once again, yes, in the first two games. And then in the Superbowl, on a neutral field, with a decimated defense, he carried the team on his back against one of the best defenses in the league.

I loved that run. Thanks for reminding me.

People forget the circumstances of the games. The AY/A stat for Brady is always low. Who cares. They use the pass to supplement the run. Always have. It works. It's not about statistical compilation, it's about winning, and that they do.

Take the Chargers game. Yes, he threw the pick late, and Brown had to make the great play. He sitll recovered to get the TD. Then after the 2 point conversion, and the Defensive stop, he took them down for the chip shot field goal attempt. I know, it's not a TD. He got that on the drive before. Why didn't Rivers lead his team for the drive to go ahead?

Yes, he's failed in two playoff games. You can't win them all.

Brady’s final post-season numbers: 60/97, 572 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT -Brady's first postseason numbers. What's the key here? One int in three games. Holding onto the ball. They had a very good D. Not to mention he missed a half. You dont' have to throw for 400 yards to win. You just have to win. Yeah, they got two special teams TD's in the Pitt game. Should they have taken the points off the board? "No, we want Tom to score!!!" It's a foolish complaint. He won by making crucial plays when needed, and not making mistakes. That's the game of football.

***********

As for the Jets coup. Coaches switch teams all the time. The Patriots paid their compensation, and got the coach they wanted. Is it any less classy than Parcells taking the "consultant" job? and BB the head coaching job in NY to get around the intent of the rules to get out of NE? Or, is it just that the talent flow was in your favor? I think the latter, and uber sour grapes. As foru loyalty to the mentor, I've never seen the Tuna as BB's mentor. Belichick is the mastermind. Tuna has not won one playoff game without Belichick. Belichick has 3 rings without Tuna. How stable was the job? Al Groh left after one year. I think BB made the right call. Head coaching gig vs. total control? I'd take total control. Ironically, Tuna made the same call just a few short years earlier, and you support him.

*********************

Is Brady overrated? In the playoffs, he's had one game where he's played bad enough to lose and won, and that's in SD. He recovered and made the playes in the end to win. In Denver last year, if Troy Brown doesn't muff the punt, they have a very good chance in that game, even with the TD pick. If he doesn't throw the pick, even better. To be fair, that was a team that lost both coordinators, coming off of 3 SB's in 4 years, and they were a couple of games away from the Superbowl. This year, losing only the DC, but both leading receivers they got a game closer. This year the projecected losses are minimal. I'd say they'll be right in the mix again, and like it or not, it's largely because of Tom Brady and Bill Belichick.

 

[Michael Brown]

Good stuff. The Yankees/Jeter comparisons to New England/Brady are good too. I would imagine it's tough for Patriot fans to explain Brady's greatness, much like it's tough to explain Jeter's. You just have to see them to "get it".

And it's funny listening to some Pats/BoSox fans telling us that Brady didn't choke and the defense didn't choke -- it was just that the Colts played great.

These are some of the same people who have been blabbing on and on about how the Yankees (and Mariano Rivera in particular) choked in 2004. So when the NY team historically loses a big lead, they choked. But when the NE team historically loses a big lead, it's just that the other team played great? Right. The same people who screamed and yelled about how happy they are that Jeter was part of the biggest collapse in ALCS history are now refusing to acknowledge that Brady and the Belichik defense are now a part of the biggest collapse in AFC Championship game history...sort of interesting to me.

By the way, before anyone jumps down my throat about this, I'm not referring to Pats/Sox fans on this board per se. Some of them, sure...but real fans like Pat Patriot and Icon and those guys didn't say that stuff to my knowledge.

I know the Shark Pool is reserved for football commentary, but I think the Yankee comparisons are warranted. This is the closest thing I've seen to those Yankee teams, and winning 3 Super Bowls in 4 years in today's NFL is actually MORE impressive than winning 4 World Series in 5 years.

 

[UCLAGIE]

Take the Chargers game. Yes, he threw the pick late, and Brown had to make the great play. He sitll recovered to get the TD. Then after the 2 point conversion, and the Defensive stop, he took them down for the chip shot field goal attempt. I know, it's not a TD. He got that on the drive before. Why didn't Rivers lead his team for the drive to go ahead?

Brady threw 3 ints against the Chargers. He hardly played like an elite QB. Rivers with a minute on the clock put the Chargers in field position for a game tying FG. Is that really much different than what Brady has done?

 

[PMENFAN]

Good stuff. The Yankees/Jeter comparisons to New England/Brady are good too. I would imagine it's tough for Patriot fans to explain Brady's greatness, much like it's tough to explain Jeter's. You just have to see them to "get it".And it's funny listening to some Pats/BoSox fans telling us that Brady didn't choke and the defense didn't choke -- it was just that the Colts played great.These are some of the same people who have been blabbing on and on about how the Yankees (and Mariano Rivera in particular) choked in 2004. So when the NY team historically loses a big lead, they choked. But when the NE team historically loses a big lead, it's just that the other team played great? Right. The same people who screamed and yelled about how happy they are that Jeter was part of the biggest collapse in ALCS history are now refusing to acknowledge that Brady and the Belichik defense are now a part of the biggest collapse in AFC Championship game history...sort of interesting to me.By the way, before anyone jumps down my throat about this, I'm not referring to Pats/Sox fans on this board per se. Some of them, sure...but real fans like Pat Patriot and Icon and those guys didn't say that stuff to my knowledge.I know the Shark Pool is reserved for football commentary, but I think the Yankee comparisons are warranted. This is the closest thing I've seen to those Yankee teams, and winning 3 Super Bowls in 4 years in today's NFL is actually MORE impressive than winning 4 World Series in 5 years.

I've never said the Yankees choked. I think in history, the 2003, 2004 ALCS's will go down as two of the greatest ever. We won one and lost one. Both series were 4-3. The order to get to 4-3 is irrelevent in my book. It's never been 0-3 to 4-3 before, but it happened this time. They were two very evenly matched teams, as evidenced by the games and series. I actually thought the 03 series was better, even though we lost. Some people may call 04 a choke job because they didn't put us away. Did we choke in 03? One year we got them, one year they got us. This year, we fell apart. As for the pats/Brady choking. Losing 2 playoff games in 14 trys cannot be called choking by any standard. In that case, every player who has ever played is a choker. Bottom line. Nobody went out undefeated. Starr is closest, and even he lost one. But, in analyzing his competition, you have to be fair and realize that their competition was not what Brady and the Pats face year in and out. They were elite. Defensively, did they choke? Or, was the loss of Hawkins the straw that finally broke the camels back? The loss of Hawkins on top of Harrison, and Wilson, the starters at Safety. And Tebucky Jones and Guss Scott, the Backups at the Satety positions. We had Hawkins, who is a corner playing Safety, and filled the spot with Baker, who as a Pats fan I admittedly knew nothing about until I saw him in the game. Do you think, maybe that gave the Colts just a bit of an edge in passing the ball, and enough to put them over the top? Maybe thats why we don't call it a choke? The Pats are deep, but every team has a limit to how deep they can be. I think they passed their limit. Give the Colts credit. Besides that happening, the Colts had to identify, and exploit it. And, they did. The other exploitation they took advantage of was the rookie linebacker. They got him a few times in pass coverage. I'm not saying safety is the only reason, but it's at least 4 points worth, and reason enough to not call it a choke.

 

[PMENFAN]

Take the Chargers game. Yes, he threw the pick late, and Brown had to make the great play. He sitll recovered to get the TD. Then after the 2 point conversion, and the Defensive stop, he took them down for the chip shot field goal attempt. I know, it's not a TD. He got that on the drive before. Why didn't Rivers lead his team for the drive to go ahead?

Brady threw 3 ints against the Chargers. He hardly played like an elite QB. Rivers with a minute on the clock put the Chargers in field position for a game tying FG. Is that really much different than what Brady has done?

Yeah, a 54 yarder is quite a lot different than what Brady had done. A 54 yarder, that is the kickers career long, and the coack passed up on a 48 yarder earlier, is quite a lot less than what Brady had done. I readilly acknowledge that Brady threw 3 Ints earlier. But, when it was needed, he made the plays he had to to get the TD, and then to get into position for the go ahead FG. Rivers did not get enough to get a practical shot at thy tying FG. You're kidding yourself if you thought Kaeding had more than a 5-10% shot at that FG. Get 10 more yards, and that goes up to about 80%. Is it anymore than Brady has done? How many times have Brady's drives led to 54 yard attempts? People knock him because his drive lead to kicks. How many have been 54 yard kicks? The difference between 54 and 48 is huge. That's the longest AV had to kick.

 

[UCLAGIE]

Good stuff. The Yankees/Jeter comparisons to New England/Brady are good too. I would imagine it's tough for Patriot fans to explain Brady's greatness, much like it's tough to explain Jeter's. You just have to see them to "get it".And it's funny listening to some Pats/BoSox fans telling us that Brady didn't choke and the defense didn't choke -- it was just that the Colts played great.These are some of the same people who have been blabbing on and on about how the Yankees (and Mariano Rivera in particular) choked in 2004. So when the NY team historically loses a big lead, they choked. But when the NE team historically loses a big lead, it's just that the other team played great? Right. The same people who screamed and yelled about how happy they are that Jeter was part of the biggest collapse in ALCS history are now refusing to acknowledge that Brady and the Belichik defense are now a part of the biggest collapse in AFC Championship game history...sort of interesting to me.By the way, before anyone jumps down my throat about this, I'm not referring to Pats/Sox fans on this board per se. Some of them, sure...but real fans like Pat Patriot and Icon and those guys didn't say that stuff to my knowledge.I know the Shark Pool is reserved for football commentary, but I think the Yankee comparisons are warranted. This is the closest thing I've seen to those Yankee teams, and winning 3 Super Bowls in 4 years in today's NFL is actually MORE impressive than winning 4 World Series in 5 years.

I've never said the Yankees choked. I think in history, the 2003, 2004 ALCS's will go down as two of the greatest ever. We won one and lost one. Both series were 4-3. The order to get to 4-3 is irrelevent in my book. It's never been 0-3 to 4-3 before, but it happened this time. They were two very evenly matched teams, as evidenced by the games and series. I actually thought the 03 series was better, even though we lost. Some people may call 04 a choke job because they didn't put us away. Did we choke in 03? One year we got them, one year they got us. This year, we fell apart. As for the pats/Brady choking. Losing 2 playoff games in 14 trys cannot be called choking by any standard. In that case, every player who has ever played is a choker. Bottom line. Nobody went out undefeated. Starr is closest, and even he lost one. But, in analyzing his competition, you have to be fair and realize that their competition was not what Brady and the Pats face year in and out. They were elite. Defensively, did they choke? Or, was the loss of Hawkins the straw that finally broke the camels back? The loss of Hawkins on top of Harrison, and Wilson, the starters at Safety. And Tebucky Jones and Guss Scott, the Backups at the Satety positions. We had Hawkins, who is a corner playing Safety, and filled the spot with Baker, who as a Pats fan I admittedly knew nothing about until I saw him in the game. Do you think, maybe that gave the Colts just a bit of an edge in passing the ball, and enough to put them over the top? Maybe thats why we don't call it a choke? The Pats are deep, but every team has a limit to how deep they can be. I think they passed their limit. Give the Colts credit. Besides that happening, the Colts had to identify, and exploit it. And, they did. The other exploitation they took advantage of was the rookie linebacker. They got him a few times in pass coverage. I'm not saying safety is the only reason, but it's at least 4 points worth, and reason enough to not call it a choke.

If you are up 21-3 and have the ball and end up losing the game somebody definately choked

 

[UCLAGIE]

Take the Chargers game. Yes, he threw the pick late, and Brown had to make the great play. He sitll recovered to get the TD. Then after the 2 point conversion, and the Defensive stop, he took them down for the chip shot field goal attempt. I know, it's not a TD. He got that on the drive before. Why didn't Rivers lead his team for the drive to go ahead?

Brady threw 3 ints against the Chargers. He hardly played like an elite QB. Rivers with a minute on the clock put the Chargers in field position for a game tying FG. Is that really much different than what Brady has done?

Yeah, a 54 yarder is quite a lot different than what Brady had done. A 54 yarder, that is the kickers career long, and the coack passed up on a 48 yarder earlier, is quite a lot less than what Brady had done. I readilly acknowledge that Brady threw 3 Ints earlier. But, when it was needed, he made the plays he had to to get the TD, and then to get into position for the go ahead FG. Rivers did not get enough to get a practical shot at thy tying FG. You're kidding yourself if you thought Kaeding had more than a 5-10% shot at that FG. Get 10 more yards, and that goes up to about 80%. Is it anymore than Brady has done? How many times have Brady's drives led to 54 yard attempts? People knock him because his drive lead to kicks. How many have been 54 yard kicks? The difference between 54 and 48 is huge. That's the longest AV had to kick.

Time was running out. Are you telling me Brady would have gotten 8 more yards in that situation? When it was needed Brady threw an int and got bailed out by Troy Brown. If you give any QBs that many shots at scoring they are eventually are going to hit the endzone. Vinateri definately hit some long shot game winning FGs with the Patriots. Does having a better kicker make Brady a better QB? Its not like Rivers threw an int in that situation.

 

[PMENFAN]

Take the Chargers game. Yes, he threw the pick late, and Brown had to make the great play. He sitll recovered to get the TD. Then after the 2 point conversion, and the Defensive stop, he took them down for the chip shot field goal attempt. I know, it's not a TD. He got that on the drive before. Why didn't Rivers lead his team for the drive to go ahead?

Brady threw 3 ints against the Chargers. He hardly played like an elite QB. Rivers with a minute on the clock put the Chargers in field position for a game tying FG. Is that really much different than what Brady has done?

Yeah, a 54 yarder is quite a lot different than what Brady had done. A 54 yarder, that is the kickers career long, and the coack passed up on a 48 yarder earlier, is quite a lot less than what Brady had done. I readilly acknowledge that Brady threw 3 Ints earlier. But, when it was needed, he made the plays he had to to get the TD, and then to get into position for the go ahead FG. Rivers did not get enough to get a practical shot at thy tying FG. You're kidding yourself if you thought Kaeding had more than a 5-10% shot at that FG. Get 10 more yards, and that goes up to about 80%. Is it anymore than Brady has done? How many times have Brady's drives led to 54 yard attempts? People knock him because his drive lead to kicks. How many have been 54 yard kicks? The difference between 54 and 48 is huge. That's the longest AV had to kick.

Time was running out. Are you telling me Brady would have gotten 8 more yards in that situation? When it was needed Brady threw an int and got bailed out by Troy Brown. If you give any QBs that many shots at scoring they are eventually are going to hit the endzone. Vinateri definately hit some long shot game winning FGs with the Patriots. Does having a better kicker make Brady a better QB? Its not like Rivers threw an int in that situation.

Would Vinatieri have hit a 54 yarder? We don't know, because he was never in the situation. I know Vinatieri has missed his share of kicks in his day. He's known for nailing in the clutch, but he's far from the most accurate kicker ever. He's missed a good many too. Kaeding hadn't missed in 2 years. It's not like he's a chump. It's just beyond his range. He wasn't given a fair chance. It's really a once in a lifetime chance. Yes, we know Brady got bailed out by Troy Brown. It's what he did after getting bailed out. Remember, the "best team in the league" got the ball and went 3 and out, before the Pats got the ball and drove down for the winning field goal. Or, have you forgotten that possession? Around that 3 and out, the Pats put up 11 points. You're labeling the Pats as Chokers for losing after bing up 21-3. Didn't the Chargers get outscored 21-7 to close out their game, after a 14-3 lead? Pretty much the same thing isn't is? Only the Chargers were at home, and the Pats on the road. The Pats had the flu go through their team, definitely affecting their team, specifically conditioning, lost a key player in the secondary, and had nobody to turn to but somebody they picked up. Call it excuses. I call it reality. The chargers have nothing to point to even remotely similar. Both had drops. Hey, you want to rip the Pats, so be it. I feel they played a great game against a great team, with Manning playing probably the best half of football he's ever played in a playoff game. Still, they got one gift PI call, a very iffy roughing the passer call, and they still barely won. But, they won, and that's all that matters. It's the NFL, and at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how you win, or by how much you win, only if you win. They're still standing, and Charger fans are whining about the Pats choking.

 

[Workhorse]

Good stuff. The Yankees/Jeter comparisons to New England/Brady are good too. I would imagine it's tough for Patriot fans to explain Brady's greatness, much like it's tough to explain Jeter's. You just have to see them to "get it".And it's funny listening to some Pats/BoSox fans telling us that Brady didn't choke and the defense didn't choke -- it was just that the Colts played great.These are some of the same people who have been blabbing on and on about how the Yankees (and Mariano Rivera in particular) choked in 2004. So when the NY team historically loses a big lead, they choked. But when the NE team historically loses a big lead, it's just that the other team played great? Right. The same people who screamed and yelled about how happy they are that Jeter was part of the biggest collapse in ALCS history are now refusing to acknowledge that Brady and the Belichik defense are now a part of the biggest collapse in AFC Championship game history...sort of interesting to me.By the way, before anyone jumps down my throat about this, I'm not referring to Pats/Sox fans on this board per se. Some of them, sure...but real fans like Pat Patriot and Icon and those guys didn't say that stuff to my knowledge.I know the Shark Pool is reserved for football commentary, but I think the Yankee comparisons are warranted. This is the closest thing I've seen to those Yankee teams, and winning 3 Super Bowls in 4 years in today's NFL is actually MORE impressive than winning 4 World Series in 5 years.

I think the difference between Jeter and Brady comes from their introduction into the big leagues: Jeter was universally acknowledged as a can't miss prospect through the Yankee system, drafted 6th overall in the 1992 draft. Won the Rookie of the Year and was almost immediately annointed as the next great Yankee, especially after winning a title in his rookie campaign. Scouts knew from the start that his tremendous physical talents, brains and baseball instincts would make him one of the greats.Tom Brady? Started his college career SEVENTH on the QB depth chart at Michigan and held a clipboard for two years before battling his way into a starting job. After some success in college, he's drafted in the 6th round (199th overall) and starts his career as the #3 QB with the Patriots. The kid works harder than anyone on the team, winning practice player of the week countless times and impressing the coaching staff every week. The fact that Brady has come into the discussion as one of the all-time greats is a remarkable feat for a guy who's been questioned his whole athletic career.As for his "clutchness"? 24 4th quarter comeback wins in 6 years. That speaks pretty loudly to me.

 

[PMENFAN]

As for his "clutchness"? 24 4th quarter comeback wins in 6 years. That speaks pretty loudly to me.

He needs to stop falling behind early. That was Elways problem too!!!

 

[My_Favorite_Team_is]

Being compared to Jeter isn't that much of blow to Tom Brady IMO...now if you said A-Rod

Thanks for rants Chase they were exceptional!

As for the not giving Adam Vinateri enough credit...I think EVERY New Englander would say that the kick against OAK in playoffs to tie the game was the single GREATEST KICK in NFL history. Some of my other highlights of this kicker's career was the kick versus Tenn in 2003 playoffs (ever kick a ball in the cold??? well drop the thermometer even more and add some wind...then line up from 45 yds out) and when Adam ran down and TACKLED Herschel Walker on a Cowboy kick return during a Sunday night game (sure Herschel was older but still pretty fast and rugged).

One question...please clarify what kick against the Raiders could be almost as big as Adam V's Tuck game kick???

That kick was absolutely incredible, and was without a doubt one of the top two greatest kicks ever made against the Oakland Raiders from 2000-2001.

 

[AB in DC]

Normally I can't stand this kind of anti-Pats stuf -- and obviously I'm still in a bad mood from Sunday -- but I have to say, that was an exceptionally fun read. Well done, Chase.

 

[porkins]

This is like one of those celebrity roasts, right?

Where people get up and poke fun at others accomplishments.

Will Brady ever have the gawdy stats that others have?

No.

Will Brady ever place blame on others for not winning?

No.

Would I trade Brady for anyother QB in the league?

No.

 

[parrot]

Anyone who thinks Pats' fans don't realize or recognize the importance the defense and Vinatieri have played in the Championships is either delusional or needs to stop listening to a relative handful of knotheads.

 

[My_Favorite_Team_is]

Anyone who thinks Pats' fans don't realize or recognize the importance the defense and Vinatieri have played in the Championships is either delusional or needs to stop listening to a relative handful of knotheads.

Further, any fan who can directly link the play of one player to a superbowl win is as described above... Parrot, I know a slew of NFL fans (lots of them Patriots fans) and none of them (not one) state that Brady is the reason that NE won three championships, they believe that he is an important corner piece of the puzzle much like the rest of the QB's that bring championships to their teams. Notice that this year, if the Colts win the Superbowl, a lot of the focus is going to be on the fact that their Defense has really come to play in the playoffs... HOWEVER, the fact will remain that they have a pretty damn good QB running the offense...will Peyton win the Bowl by himself? I think not...

 

[Mahoney]

In summary: It's way better being the fan of the lucky team that has made it to 5 Super Bowls, than being the fan of the skillfull, deserving team that has somehow only been to 1.

 

[Chase Stuart]

That kick was absolutely incredible, and was without a doubt one of the top two greatest kicks ever made against the Oakland Raiders from 2000-2001.

I must have been pretty tired last night when I posted that. What I meant to say is that it was undeniably one of the two greatest kicks ever made by an AFC East team in January 2002 in the final minute of regulation against the Oakland Raiders. Really don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

 

[UCLAGIE]

Take the Chargers game. Yes, he threw the pick late, and Brown had to make the great play. He sitll recovered to get the TD. Then after the 2 point conversion, and the Defensive stop, he took them down for the chip shot field goal attempt. I know, it's not a TD. He got that on the drive before. Why didn't Rivers lead his team for the drive to go ahead?

Brady threw 3 ints against the Chargers. He hardly played like an elite QB. Rivers with a minute on the clock put the Chargers in field position for a game tying FG. Is that really much different than what Brady has done?

Yeah, a 54 yarder is quite a lot different than what Brady had done. A 54 yarder, that is the kickers career long, and the coack passed up on a 48 yarder earlier, is quite a lot less than what Brady had done. I readilly acknowledge that Brady threw 3 Ints earlier. But, when it was needed, he made the plays he had to to get the TD, and then to get into position for the go ahead FG. Rivers did not get enough to get a practical shot at thy tying FG. You're kidding yourself if you thought Kaeding had more than a 5-10% shot at that FG. Get 10 more yards, and that goes up to about 80%. Is it anymore than Brady has done? How many times have Brady's drives led to 54 yard attempts? People knock him because his drive lead to kicks. How many have been 54 yard kicks? The difference between 54 and 48 is huge. That's the longest AV had to kick.

Time was running out. Are you telling me Brady would have gotten 8 more yards in that situation? When it was needed Brady threw an int and got bailed out by Troy Brown. If you give any QBs that many shots at scoring they are eventually are going to hit the endzone. Vinateri definately hit some long shot game winning FGs with the Patriots. Does having a better kicker make Brady a better QB? Its not like Rivers threw an int in that situation.

Would Vinatieri have hit a 54 yarder? We don't know, because he was never in the situation. I know Vinatieri has missed his share of kicks in his day. He's known for nailing in the clutch, but he's far from the most accurate kicker ever. He's missed a good many too. Kaeding hadn't missed in 2 years. It's not like he's a chump. It's just beyond his range. He wasn't given a fair chance. It's really a once in a lifetime chance. Yes, we know Brady got bailed out by Troy Brown. It's what he did after getting bailed out. Remember, the "best team in the league" got the ball and went 3 and out, before the Pats got the ball and drove down for the winning field goal. Or, have you forgotten that possession? Around that 3 and out, the Pats put up 11 points. You're labeling the Pats as Chokers for losing after bing up 21-3. Didn't the Chargers get outscored 21-7 to close out their game, after a 14-3 lead? Pretty much the same thing isn't is? Only the Chargers were at home, and the Pats on the road. The Pats had the flu go through their team, definitely affecting their team, specifically conditioning, lost a key player in the secondary, and had nobody to turn to but somebody they picked up. Call it excuses. I call it reality. The chargers have nothing to point to even remotely similar. Both had drops. Hey, you want to rip the Pats, so be it. I feel they played a great game against a great team, with Manning playing probably the best half of football he's ever played in a playoff game. Still, they got one gift PI call, a very iffy roughing the passer call, and they still barely won. But, they won, and that's all that matters. It's the NFL, and at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how you win, or by how much you win, only if you win. They're still standing, and Charger fans are whining about the Pats choking.

I would imagine 90% of Charger fans would admit that they choked against the Patriots and that was only blowing an 11 point lead. That wouldnt suprise the general media. They were supposed to choke, Marty Schotenhemier and a first year QB against a defensive genius made it just bound to happen The Patriots blow a 18 point lead and the average Patriot fan cant admit to what just happened. Brady was outplayed by Manning, as he was outplayed by Rivers the week before. No Charger fan is whining about the Patriots choking , that doesnt make sense. Gloating maybe, yeah.

 

[rocket1012]

A few counterpoints points from Chase's rant....

1.) In almost every NFL game,there are 5 or 6 plays that WOULD HAVE swung the game in the other teams direction had they not occured,..including 1st downs due to penalties, barely inbounds receptions, pass drops, barely made FG's(I was at the Tenn/NE playoff game,Vinatieri's 46 yd FG was made in -11 degree F weather ,where the ball must have been like kicking a cinder block.) out of bounds kickoffs, and of course fumbles and pass interceptions. The Patriots are far from the only team taking advantage of these,..Good teams don't beat themselves and they're part of the game,deal with it..

2.) Making a big deal about Belichik's exit as the announced Jets head coach,and "standing up" Bill Parcells and the Jets. Let's remember that Parcells pulled one of the premier selfish moves in recent NFL coaching history by negotiating his next job with the Jets while supposedly preparing the Patriots for the Super Bowl vs. the Packers,and followed it up by not flying back with the team after the loss. Classy....

3.) In a city that builds up guys like Chad Pennington to be the second coming of Joe Namath, a three time Super Bowl winner,two time SB MVP like Tom Brady would have already had a statue erected in Times Square.

Jet fans will never admit that they've come up short since the "border war" that heated up with their signing of Curtis Martin,..and as a Patriots fan, I'm enjoying it...

 

[Reaper]

Jet fans will never admit that they've come up short since the "border war" that heated up with their signing of Curtis Martin,..and as a Patriots fan, I'm enjoying it...

HUH?What Jet fans never admitted this.. One team has 3 Super Bowls since and one team has none..What's to not admit? You SHOULD enjoy it. The whole point of Chase's rant is all about how much it sucked for the Jets and their fans as everything between them broke the Pats way.Heck, I was even talking to another fan about Vince Wilfork and again, it's so damn frustrating that our imbecile GM at the time sold the farm for Dewayne Robertson while we watch the Pats drop back for Ty Warren AND have Vince Wilfork fall in their laps the following year... UNBELIEVABLE.... The things that aligned for the Pats since that Bledsoe hit. And at that moment, as Chase alluded to, as a Jets fan, you had to think that hit and Bledsoe injured was going to mean some real good things that year.

 

[PahtyTom]

"The harder you work, the luckier you get."

 

[parrot]

Take the Chargers game. Yes, he threw the pick late, and Brown had to make the great play. He sitll recovered to get the TD. Then after the 2 point conversion, and the Defensive stop, he took them down for the chip shot field goal attempt. I know, it's not a TD. He got that on the drive before. Why didn't Rivers lead his team for the drive to go ahead?

Brady threw 3 ints against the Chargers. He hardly played like an elite QB. Rivers with a minute on the clock put the Chargers in field position for a game tying FG. Is that really much different than what Brady has done?

Yeah, a 54 yarder is quite a lot different than what Brady had done. A 54 yarder, that is the kickers career long, and the coack passed up on a 48 yarder earlier, is quite a lot less than what Brady had done. I readilly acknowledge that Brady threw 3 Ints earlier. But, when it was needed, he made the plays he had to to get the TD, and then to get into position for the go ahead FG. Rivers did not get enough to get a practical shot at thy tying FG. You're kidding yourself if you thought Kaeding had more than a 5-10% shot at that FG. Get 10 more yards, and that goes up to about 80%. Is it anymore than Brady has done? How many times have Brady's drives led to 54 yard attempts? People knock him because his drive lead to kicks. How many have been 54 yard kicks? The difference between 54 and 48 is huge. That's the longest AV had to kick.

Time was running out. Are you telling me Brady would have gotten 8 more yards in that situation? When it was needed Brady threw an int and got bailed out by Troy Brown. If you give any QBs that many shots at scoring they are eventually are going to hit the endzone. Vinateri definately hit some long shot game winning FGs with the Patriots. Does having a better kicker make Brady a better QB? Its not like Rivers threw an int in that situation.

Would Vinatieri have hit a 54 yarder? We don't know, because he was never in the situation. I know Vinatieri has missed his share of kicks in his day. He's known for nailing in the clutch, but he's far from the most accurate kicker ever. He's missed a good many too. Kaeding hadn't missed in 2 years. It's not like he's a chump. It's just beyond his range. He wasn't given a fair chance. It's really a once in a lifetime chance. Yes, we know Brady got bailed out by Troy Brown. It's what he did after getting bailed out. Remember, the "best team in the league" got the ball and went 3 and out, before the Pats got the ball and drove down for the winning field goal. Or, have you forgotten that possession? Around that 3 and out, the Pats put up 11 points. You're labeling the Pats as Chokers for losing after bing up 21-3. Didn't the Chargers get outscored 21-7 to close out their game, after a 14-3 lead? Pretty much the same thing isn't is? Only the Chargers were at home, and the Pats on the road. The Pats had the flu go through their team, definitely affecting their team, specifically conditioning, lost a key player in the secondary, and had nobody to turn to but somebody they picked up. Call it excuses. I call it reality. The chargers have nothing to point to even remotely similar. Both had drops. Hey, you want to rip the Pats, so be it. I feel they played a great game against a great team, with Manning playing probably the best half of football he's ever played in a playoff game. Still, they got one gift PI call, a very iffy roughing the passer call, and they still barely won. But, they won, and that's all that matters. It's the NFL, and at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how you win, or by how much you win, only if you win. They're still standing, and Charger fans are whining about the Pats choking.

I would imagine 90% of Charger fans would admit that they choked against the Patriots and that was only blowing an 11 point lead. That wouldnt suprise the general media. They were supposed to choke, Marty Schotenhemier and a first year QB against a defensive genius made it just bound to happen The Patriots blow a 18 point lead and the average Patriot fan cant admit to what just happened. Brady was outplayed by Manning, as he was outplayed by Rivers the week before. No Charger fan is whining about the Patriots choking , that doesnt make sense. Gloating maybe, yeah.

This is quite an impressive post, not only do you speak for 90% of Chargers fans, you also speak for the average Patriots fan.

 

[PhD]

Reading this rant was good therapy for me. Thank you. But in the end it just seems to support a few old (accurate) ideas:

(1) Football is a team sport and the TEAM with the best TOTAL combination of plays from their offense, defense and special teams will win; and (2) Quaterbacks get too much credit for wins (e.g., Brady) and too much blame for losses (e.g., Manning).

I'm no Patriot lover and I do think Brady is over-rated (as is the case with most QBs), but the details of this rant highlight the fact that the Patriots have won with special teams and defense at least and probably more often then offense (at least that's what it has felt like when they have beaten the Steelers - bastards...). This would make them a good TEAM and Brady is simply the team's QB, given too much credit.

And if we are talking about giving credit to whom credit is due let me say the one Patriot that I respect the most for their success is the one who no longer gets much attention/respect from the team apparently: Troy Brown (that is if getting cut and then brought back for relative peanuts is a sign of little respect). That guy should get a salary equal to a WR+DB+Special Teamer plus a bonus equal to a share of every player's playoff money.

As far as Belichick is concerned I tend to think in line with L.T.; He may not be outright disrespectful but I don't think you can come up with many examples of Belichick exuding class. He's not going to give lectures on dress, style or etiquette, but he can coach. He may not have been born to be a head coach (see years in Cleveland) but he has learned how to do it pretty well. He comes up with schemes and his history in doing so leads to faith in him and he relies on that faith to motivate his players.

Last reaction: regarding the Manning/Brady comparisons - IF Manning wins the Super Bowl how should we compare them? You can't say "He can't beat the Patriots." or that "He can't win the big game." or that "He never won as Super Bowl". And if you then say that Brady is better because he won more Super Bowls despite lesser stats, then wouldn't you need to put both Brady and Manning behind Bradshaw?

 

[My_Favorite_Team_is]

That kick was absolutely incredible, and was without a doubt one of the top two greatest kicks ever made against the Oakland Raiders from 2000-2001.

I must have been pretty tired last night when I posted that. What I meant to say is that it was undeniably one of the two greatest kicks ever made by an AFC East team in January 2002 in the final minute of regulation against the Oakland Raiders. Really don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

Way to be....

 

[nerangers]

I would imagine 90% of Charger fans would admit that they choked against the Patriots and that was only blowing an 11 point lead. That wouldnt suprise the general media. They were supposed to choke, Marty Schotenhemier and a first year QB against a defensive genius made it just bound to happen The Patriots blow a 18 point lead and the average Patriot fan cant admit to what just happened. Brady was outplayed by Manning, as he was outplayed by Rivers the week before. No Charger fan is whining about the Patriots choking , that doesnt make sense. Gloating maybe, yeah.

I think the concept of Team sports is escaping you. Manning definitely outplayed Brady. Rivers did not outplay him . Rivers 14/32 230 yds, 1 INTBrady 27/51 280 yds, 2 TD, 3 INTsSure looks like Brady was called on more to pull that game off than Rivers was. It goes beyond what the QB does though...The QB leads, but the team executes. The QB does not play on defense, and he is not the kicker...you can always point to plays that could have changed the game, but it comes back to how did the team execute as a whole. The QB seems to take the brunt of it since he has the most opportunities to turn the ball over and change the outcome of the game.Individuals contribute to the team...you win as a team, you lose as a team.

 

[UCLAGIE]

I would imagine 90% of Charger fans would admit that they choked against the Patriots and that was only blowing an 11 point lead. That wouldnt suprise the general media. They were supposed to choke, Marty Schotenhemier and a first year QB against a defensive genius made it just bound to happen The Patriots blow a 18 point lead and the average Patriot fan cant admit to what just happened. Brady was outplayed by Manning, as he was outplayed by Rivers the week before. No Charger fan is whining about the Patriots choking , that doesnt make sense. Gloating maybe, yeah.

I think the concept of Team sports is escaping you. Manning definitely outplayed Brady. Rivers did not outplay him . Rivers 14/32 230 yds, 1 INT

Brady 27/51 280 yds, 2 TD, 3 INTs

Sure looks like Brady was called on more to pull that game off than Rivers was. It goes beyond what the QB does though...The QB leads, but the team executes. The QB does not play on defense, and he is not the kicker...you can always point to plays that could have changed the game, but it comes back to how did the team execute as a whole. The QB seems to take the brunt of it since he has the most opportunities to turn the ball over and change the outcome of the game.

Individuals contribute to the team...you win as a team, you lose as a team.

I understand the concept of team sports completely, which is why I agree with the general theme of Chase's rant that Brady is overrated.I stand by my statement that Rivers outplayed Brady and here is why...

About Quick Reads

To figure out which players did the most to help their teams win or lose, Quick Reads uses the Defense-adjusted Points Above Replacement (DPAR) system developed by Football Outsiders. The success of every single NFL play is judged based on yardage gained towards both a touchdown and a first down. Then each play gets compared to the NFL average on similar plays, based on down, distance, and other variables. Players are judged not based on how many yards they get, but on how important those yards are in the context of the game. We also adjust for the strength of the opposing defense. Each player's performance is then translated into an approximate number of actual points that such success (or failure) is worth when compared to a generic bench scrub (also called a "replacement player," or, by his parents, "Billy Joe"). Each Monday, we use the DPAR system to take a look at the best and worst quarterbacks, running backs, and wide receivers of the week. You can read more about the system below.

Quarterbacks

Rk Player Team CP/AT YDS TD INT Total DPAR Pass DPAR Rush DPAR

1. Drew Brees NO 20/32 243 1 0 6.5 9.9 -3.4

The negative rushing value is all based on the bobbled pitch to Reggie Bush, which technically was a fumble charged to Brees. Watching Brees right now, you wonder how anybody ever doubted that he was a top-flight NFL quarterback. Doubt that he would come back from the shoulder injury at the same level, sure — but I'm talking about the people who doubted him back when he was with the Chargers.

2. Jeff Garcia PHI 15/30 240 1 0 5.8 6.0 -0.2

I heard he was back in Calgary with the Stampeders… man; I'm sweatin' like a steam fitter in here.

3. Matt Hasselbeck SEA 18/32 195 1 1 5.2 4.7 0.5

Considering the way the Chicago defense shut down opposing quarterbacks this year, this was an excellent game. Of course, the Chicago defense Hasselbeck faced this week wasn't really the same defense Hasselbeck faced back in Week 4. They really, really miss Tommie Harris.

4. Philip Rivers SD 14/30 230 0 1 0.9 0.5 0.4

Not a great game, but I would say that Rivers acquitted himself nicely in his first playoff start, especially considering the awful performances of the other three AFC quarterbacks — who happen to be three of the most experienced, best quarterbacks in the NFL.

5. Peyton Manning IND 15/30 170 0 2 -0.7 -1.4 0.7

We're all asking the question, "What happened to the Colts' defense, and why should we believe it will be this good again next week?" But we also need to ask the question, "What happened to Peyton Manning, and why should we believe he'll be this bad again next week." And just as the Colts defense has gone from awful to wonderful on third down, Manning has gone from wonderful to awful. He converted only four of 13 third-down opportunities, and both his interceptions came on third down.

6. Rex Grossman CHI 21/38 282 1 1 -1.5 -1.5 0.0

He was terrible on third down too. He converted just 3-of-14 pass attempts, with two sacks, an interception, and a fumble. At least two of those conversions were huge gains, the 37-yarder early to Rashied Davis and the 30-yarder to Davis in overtime that basically won the game.

7. Tom Brady NE 27/51 280 2 3 -3.4 -3.1 -0.3

Like Grossman, he was awful on third down, converting just 3-of-14 pass attempts with a sack (and fumble) and an interception. He was awful all day, throwing into coverage and missing completely open receivers like Ben Watson in the corner on what would have been a go-ahead touchdown in the third quarter. And yet, in the last drive of each half, he was unstoppable. Perhaps the definition of clutch is not a player who raises his game in pressure situations, but a player who is calm enough to put aside distractions that would otherwise lower his game in pressure situations.

8. Steve McNair BAL 18/29 173 0 2 -6.2 -6.4 0.2

Oh, but wait… as bad as Manning was on third down, or Grossman, or Brady, not one of those quarterbacks came close to the awful third-down performance of Steve McNair against the Colts. He had 10 pass attempts on third down and had more interceptions (2) than conversions (1). That's pathetic.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6373554

 

[UCLAGIE]

I would imagine 90% of Charger fans would admit that they choked against the Patriots and that was only blowing an 11 point lead. That wouldnt suprise the general media. They were supposed to choke, Marty Schotenhemier and a first year QB against a defensive genius made it just bound to happen The Patriots blow a 18 point lead and the average Patriot fan cant admit to what just happened. Brady was outplayed by Manning, as he was outplayed by Rivers the week before. No Charger fan is whining about the Patriots choking , that doesnt make sense. Gloating maybe, yeah.

I think the concept of Team sports is escaping you. Manning definitely outplayed Brady. Rivers did not outplay him . Rivers 14/32 230 yds, 1 INT

Brady 27/51 280 yds, 2 TD, 3 INTs

Sure looks like Brady was called on more to pull that game off than Rivers was. It goes beyond what the QB does though...The QB leads, but the team executes. The QB does not play on defense, and he is not the kicker...you can always point to plays that could have changed the game, but it comes back to how did the team execute as a whole. The QB seems to take the brunt of it since he has the most opportunities to turn the ball over and change the outcome of the game.

Individuals contribute to the team...you win as a team, you lose as a team.

I understand the concept of team sports completely, which is why I agree with the general theme of Chase's rant that Brady is overrated.I stand by my statement that Rivers outplayed Brady and here is why...

About Quick Reads

To figure out which players did the most to help their teams win or lose, Quick Reads uses the Defense-adjusted Points Above Replacement (DPAR) system developed by Football Outsiders. The success of every single NFL play is judged based on yardage gained towards both a touchdown and a first down. Then each play gets compared to the NFL average on similar plays, based on down, distance, and other variables. Players are judged not based on how many yards they get, but on how important those yards are in the context of the game. We also adjust for the strength of the opposing defense. Each player's performance is then translated into an approximate number of actual points that such success (or failure) is worth when compared to a generic bench scrub (also called a "replacement player," or, by his parents, "Billy Joe"). Each Monday, we use the DPAR system to take a look at the best and worst quarterbacks, running backs, and wide receivers of the week. You can read more about the system below.

Quarterbacks

Rk Player Team CP/AT YDS TD INT Total DPAR Pass DPAR Rush DPAR

1. Drew Brees NO 20/32 243 1 0 6.5 9.9 -3.4

The negative rushing value is all based on the bobbled pitch to Reggie Bush, which technically was a fumble charged to Brees. Watching Brees right now, you wonder how anybody ever doubted that he was a top-flight NFL quarterback. Doubt that he would come back from the shoulder injury at the same level, sure — but I'm talking about the people who doubted him back when he was with the Chargers.

2. Jeff Garcia PHI 15/30 240 1 0 5.8 6.0 -0.2

I heard he was back in Calgary with the Stampeders… man; I'm sweatin' like a steam fitter in here.

3. Matt Hasselbeck SEA 18/32 195 1 1 5.2 4.7 0.5

Considering the way the Chicago defense shut down opposing quarterbacks this year, this was an excellent game. Of course, the Chicago defense Hasselbeck faced this week wasn't really the same defense Hasselbeck faced back in Week 4. They really, really miss Tommie Harris.

4. Philip Rivers SD 14/30 230 0 1 0.9 0.5 0.4

Not a great game, but I would say that Rivers acquitted himself nicely in his first playoff start, especially considering the awful performances of the other three AFC quarterbacks — who happen to be three of the most experienced, best quarterbacks in the NFL.

5. Peyton Manning IND 15/30 170 0 2 -0.7 -1.4 0.7

We're all asking the question, "What happened to the Colts' defense, and why should we believe it will be this good again next week?" But we also need to ask the question, "What happened to Peyton Manning, and why should we believe he'll be this bad again next week." And just as the Colts defense has gone from awful to wonderful on third down, Manning has gone from wonderful to awful. He converted only four of 13 third-down opportunities, and both his interceptions came on third down.

6. Rex Grossman CHI 21/38 282 1 1 -1.5 -1.5 0.0

He was terrible on third down too. He converted just 3-of-14 pass attempts, with two sacks, an interception, and a fumble. At least two of those conversions were huge gains, the 37-yarder early to Rashied Davis and the 30-yarder to Davis in overtime that basically won the game.

7. Tom Brady NE 27/51 280 2 3 -3.4 -3.1 -0.3

Like Grossman, he was awful on third down, converting just 3-of-14 pass attempts with a sack (and fumble) and an interception. He was awful all day, throwing into coverage and missing completely open receivers like Ben Watson in the corner on what would have been a go-ahead touchdown in the third quarter. And yet, in the last drive of each half, he was unstoppable. Perhaps the definition of clutch is not a player who raises his game in pressure situations, but a player who is calm enough to put aside distractions that would otherwise lower his game in pressure situations.

8. Steve McNair BAL 18/29 173 0 2 -6.2 -6.4 0.2

Oh, but wait… as bad as Manning was on third down, or Grossman, or Brady, not one of those quarterbacks came close to the awful third-down performance of Steve McNair against the Colts. He had 10 pass attempts on third down and had more interceptions (2) than conversions (1). That's pathetic.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6373554

I should also point out that same system pegged Brady as being the most effective QB in the first week of the playoffsQuarterbacks

Rk Player Team CP/AT YDS TD INT Total DPAR Pass DPAR Rush DPAR

1. Tom Brady NE 22/34 212 2 0 10.7 9.9 0.9

A very consistent game. Brady had a positive DPAR in all four quarters. He had a positive DPAR on first, second and third down. He had a positive DPAR from every area of the field (the system splits the field into 20-yard sections). He had positive DPAR when taking the snap under center, and a positive DPAR when taking the snap in shotgun formation.

2. Chad Pennington NYJ 25/42 299 1 1 7.2 7.3 -0.1

Remember when the Jets' quarterback situation seemed like such a mess? They go into next season all set: Pennington is playing very well, while Kellen Clemens can learn behind him and take over if Pennington gets injured again. And Patrick Ramsey is hanging around to ... uh ... be Patrick Ramsey, I guess.

3. Eli Manning NYG 16/27 164 2 1 4.5 4.6 0.0

Looked very good on two drives -- the first one and the last one -- and looked very bad in between. He struggled on third downs -- not third-and-long, but third-and-short. He was incomplete twice on third-and-goal in the red zone, threw a pass too short on one third-and-5 and took a sack on another third-and-5.

4. Tony Romo DAL 17/29 191 1 0 4.3 4.3 0.0

This doesn't count his blown hold on the field goal, of course. Romo actually had a better game as a quarterback than conventional stats indicate, because he was very good on third down. He had three conversions on third-and-long, plus a pass that would have converted except for a Jason Witten fumble, and then the final pass that was re-spotted short of the first down after review. He also had the 32-yard pass to Witten on fourth-and-2, which was about as valuable as a play can be without scoring a touchdown.

5. Jeff Garcia PHI 17/31 153 1 0 2.9 3.1 -0.2

Moxie and swagger 1, Tom Coughlin-enforced "discipline" 0.

6. Peyton Manning IND 30/37 268 1 3 0.5 0.5 0.0

I don't know what kind of psychic powers Ty Law has over Manning, but Law intercepted two passes without actually doing anything. Twice, Marvin Harrison cut in and Peyton Manning thought he was going to cut out, and Ty Law was just standing there waiting for the pass.

7. Matt Hasselbeck SEA 18/36 240 2 2 -1.6 -1.2 -0.3

First half: 7-for-19, 80 yards, -4.3 DPAR. Second half: 11-for-17, 160 yards, 3.1 DPAR.

8. Trent Green KC 15/25 113 1 2 -12.8 -11.5 -1.3

I'm sure we're all looking forward to six months of second-guessing Herman Edwards. All throughout the regular season, I was in the "keep Green at quarterback" camp. Huard had a good run there as the starter, but he got to take advantage of much easier defenses than the ones Green faced in the second half of the year. By halftime of this game, though, Green looked so bad that I think Edwards made the wrong decision to leave him in there. You wore down your running back so you could make the playoffs, the season has 30 minutes left, the starting quarterback looks awful, and the backup is someone you know has played well this year. That's when you've hit last resort time, Herm.

 

[Kit Fisto]

In summary: It's way better being the fan of the lucky team that has made it to 5 Super Bowls, than being the fan of the skillfull, deserving team that has somehow only been to 1.

I find it absolutely hysterical that so much time and effort went into a rant about the Patriots.Got a little sour grapes going on here?

 

[softball]

Good good stuff Chase, I am a JETS fan and recall most of the craziness with fond memories. It was fun if you look at it that way.

Bill Parcells Pats team had the Packers beat, they won the game. Does anyone but me remember the Pats stopped a pass on 4th down late in the game but a saftey (Lawyer Miloy?) whos name escapes me right now committed a personal foul?

That gave the Packers a new set of downs and they marched down for the winning score.I swear I'm the only who remembers that.

Making Bill Parcells the closest guy to being the first to win a SB w/ 2 different teams.

(I still say thats why Holmgren was so pissed last year, he almost had it)

Anyway those are my rants, and I'll add that:

The Pats WERE lucky to beat the Panthers! Kasay kicked the FG to put the Panthers ahead and then kicked the damn ball OB for a penalty that gave the Pats the ball on the 40. Not far for Brady to go and get AV a FG attempt...

1. I was at the game but it was over 10 years ago so this is by memory. The Pats were losing 27-14 at the half and got within 6 points with a TD late in the 3rd quarter. On the ensuing kickoff, Desmond Howard returned it for a 99 yard TD and then there was no scoring in the 4th quarter. The Pats were IN the game late in the 3rd but were NEVER in a position to win it and never got within 14 pts in the 4th. I dont remember the Milloy penalty but doubt it was the difference in the game. 2. The Patriots took a 29-22 lead on Carolina after a long TD drive by the Pats and a Kevin Faulk 2 pt conversion. On the ensuing possession, Carolina drove down and tied the game on a TD to Ricky Proehl with 1:08 left. Of course the kick out of bounds helped the Pats. Brady then drove the Pats 36 yards for an easy 41 yard game winning kick by Vinatieri.

Nice rant but dont let facts get in your way.

My bad on the first. Pure memory thing. And clearly incorrect. No attempt to skirt the facts...

 

[Pat Patriot]

Is there any explanation as to why the Patriots are so lucky?

I'm not sure that question makes sense.

Explain. Chase says the Pats have won 3 SB titles because they are lucky. Can you explain luck?

 

[Chase Stuart]

Is there any explanation as to why the Patriots are so lucky?

I'm not sure that question makes sense.

Explain. Chase says the Pats have won 3 SB titles because they are lucky. Can you explain luck?

Not to speak for MT, but I think he means luck, by definition, cannot be explained. So if David Dodds wins the lottery tomorrow, and someone posts "Dodds is one lucky SOB", it wouldn't make sense for a follow up question to be "Is there any explanation as to why Dodds is so lucky?" I'm not equating the Pats chances of winning the Super Bowl to Dodds winning the lottery, but I'm merely using an exaggerated example to show that luck isn't explainable, because it's, well, luck.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Good stuff. The Yankees/Jeter comparisons to New England/Brady are good too. I would imagine it's tough for Patriot fans to explain Brady's greatness, much like it's tough to explain Jeter's. You just have to see them to "get it".And it's funny listening to some Pats/BoSox fans telling us that Brady didn't choke and the defense didn't choke -- it was just that the Colts played great.These are some of the same people who have been blabbing on and on about how the Yankees (and Mariano Rivera in particular) choked in 2004. So when the NY team historically loses a big lead, they choked. But when the NE team historically loses a big lead, it's just that the other team played great? Right. The same people who screamed and yelled about how happy they are that Jeter was part of the biggest collapse in ALCS history are now refusing to acknowledge that Brady and the Belichik defense are now a part of the biggest collapse in AFC Championship game history...sort of interesting to me.By the way, before anyone jumps down my throat about this, I'm not referring to Pats/Sox fans on this board per se. Some of them, sure...but real fans like Pat Patriot and Icon and those guys didn't say that stuff to my knowledge.I know the Shark Pool is reserved for football commentary, but I think the Yankee comparisons are warranted. This is the closest thing I've seen to those Yankee teams, and winning 3 Super Bowls in 4 years in today's NFL is actually MORE impressive than winning 4 World Series in 5 years.

I have always said that the Red Sox won 2 incredible extra innings games against the Yankees and started the boulder rolling downhill. There was no way the Yankees were winning games 6 and 7. I feel much the same way about the Pats/Colts game.I dont think the Pats choked not from an emotional stance but from what I feel is a logical one. The Patriots blew a big lead. The Pats did have a 21-3 lead with the ball in great position. What did they do? They drove to the Colt 19 and were seconds from putting the game out of reach when, oops, penalty. Offensive PI on a sort of pick play. Back to the 36 yard line. A couple of bad play calls and a sack later and there was a punt.From there, the Colts scored on back to back drives without the Patriots touching the ball (halftime) to bring them within 21-13. One score. It is a game again. Typically, I think of a choke as a team chokes and loses the game. They dont choke and then come back. Choke again and then come back and eventually choke for a last time and lose the game. After they gave up the big lead, the Pats started trading points with the Colts. Usually not the MO of a team that is choking. The defense could not stop the Colts.I have seen a couple posts talking about losing Hawkins as a turning point. I'm not sure I buy this. I think a big difference in the game was Dominic Rhodes. He is the one that really wore down the defense. 69 yards rushing and 4 catches for 38 yards receiving. Bruschi couldnt cover him. The dumpoffs in the middle always resulted in 10 yards. I dont think Hawkins would have made a difference there.The Patriots got beat because their defense wore down and couldnt get a stop and their offense couldnt execute and settled for FG's (along with a terrible non PI call). If you want to say they choked, I'm fine with that. It doesnt bother me. I just dont think they did.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Is there any explanation as to why the Patriots are so lucky?

I'm not sure that question makes sense.

Explain. Chase says the Pats have won 3 SB titles because they are lucky. Can you explain luck?

Not to speak for MT, but I think he means luck, by definition, cannot be explained. So if David Dodds wins the lottery tomorrow, and someone posts "Dodds is one lucky SOB", it wouldn't make sense for a follow up question to be "Is there any explanation as to why Dodds is so lucky?" I'm not equating the Pats chances of winning the Super Bowl to Dodds winning the lottery, but I'm merely using an exaggerated example to show that luck isn't explainable, because it's, well, luck.

What if Dodds won the lottery 3 out of 4 weeks? You think some might start thinking it is more than luck? Maybe it would still be luck but dont you think it would make people think?

 

[Chase Stuart]

Is there any explanation as to why the Patriots are so lucky?

I'm not sure that question makes sense.

Explain. Chase says the Pats have won 3 SB titles because they are lucky. Can you explain luck?

Not to speak for MT, but I think he means luck, by definition, cannot be explained. So if David Dodds wins the lottery tomorrow, and someone posts "Dodds is one lucky SOB", it wouldn't make sense for a follow up question to be "Is there any explanation as to why Dodds is so lucky?" I'm not equating the Pats chances of winning the Super Bowl to Dodds winning the lottery, but I'm merely using an exaggerated example to show that luck isn't explainable, because it's, well, luck.

What if Dodds won the lottery 3 out of 4 weeks? You think some might start thinking it is more than luck? Maybe it would still be luck but dont you think it would make people think?

If Dodds won the lottery 3 out of 4 weeks, I'd still think it was luck.

 

[The Ref]

Whats funny is everyone wants to kick the champ while he is down. And some of us are plain happy to watch Peyton go to his first SB.

I think what is lost on most of us is now everyone is talking about "The Pats - Colts rivalry", and this will go on for the next few years. Well I have a message for all my fellow Pats Fans, and all of you Colts Fans out there. "My" Patriots better get younger and quicker at LB and better at WR and fast. The Colts better win this year, and even if they do they better ask Peyton, Wayne and Harrison better take cuts so they can sure up the middle of that D. The new power in the AFC is in San Diego. Mark my words. They may have failed the first time (as most teams do the first time around), but they won't make the same mistakes next year IMHO.

IMHO - San Diego has a very good chance of winning the AFC 2 or 3 times over the next 5 years.

 

[Chase Stuart]

If you want to say they choked, I'm fine with that. It doesnt bother me. I just dont think they did.

I don't think that the Pats choked either. The Pats were hot for the first part of the game, and the Colts were hot for the middle part of the game. Both teams played well in the last part of the game. That's why the score was so close. I also think the Pats ******* ****!!!!11111

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Is there any explanation as to why the Patriots are so lucky?

I'm not sure that question makes sense.

Explain. Chase says the Pats have won 3 SB titles because they are lucky. Can you explain luck?

Not to speak for MT, but I think he means luck, by definition, cannot be explained. So if David Dodds wins the lottery tomorrow, and someone posts "Dodds is one lucky SOB", it wouldn't make sense for a follow up question to be "Is there any explanation as to why Dodds is so lucky?" I'm not equating the Pats chances of winning the Super Bowl to Dodds winning the lottery, but I'm merely using an exaggerated example to show that luck isn't explainable, because it's, well, luck.

Exactly right. The thing that makes it luck is that it can't be explained any further. Luck is just luck.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Is there any explanation as to why the Patriots are so lucky?

I'm not sure that question makes sense.

Explain. Chase says the Pats have won 3 SB titles because they are lucky. Can you explain luck?

Not to speak for MT, but I think he means luck, by definition, cannot be explained. So if David Dodds wins the lottery tomorrow, and someone posts "Dodds is one lucky SOB", it wouldn't make sense for a follow up question to be "Is there any explanation as to why Dodds is so lucky?" I'm not equating the Pats chances of winning the Super Bowl to Dodds winning the lottery, but I'm merely using an exaggerated example to show that luck isn't explainable, because it's, well, luck.

What if Dodds won the lottery 3 out of 4 weeks? You think some might start thinking it is more than luck? Maybe it would still be luck but dont you think it would make people think?

If it's "more than luck," then it's not luck, in which case asking why he's so lucky still wouldn't make sense.The luck part is just luck and is not explainable any further.The non-luck part is not luck and is therefore not part of the answer to "why all the luck?" questions.

 

[cobalt_27]

Is there any explanation as to why the Patriots are so lucky?

I'm not sure that question makes sense.

Explain. Chase says the Pats have won 3 SB titles because they are lucky. Can you explain luck?

Not to speak for MT, but I think he means luck, by definition, cannot be explained. So if David Dodds wins the lottery tomorrow, and someone posts "Dodds is one lucky SOB", it wouldn't make sense for a follow up question to be "Is there any explanation as to why Dodds is so lucky?" I'm not equating the Pats chances of winning the Super Bowl to Dodds winning the lottery, but I'm merely using an exaggerated example to show that luck isn't explainable, because it's, well, luck.

What if Dodds won the lottery 3 out of 4 weeks? You think some might start thinking it is more than luck? Maybe it would still be luck but dont you think it would make people think?

If it's "more than luck," then it's not luck, in which case asking why he's so lucky still wouldn't make sense.The luck part is just luck and is not explainable any further.The non-luck part is not luck and is therefore not part of the answer to "why all the luck?" questions.

What in the lhucks are you talking about, MT?

 

[PMENFAN]

Jet fans will never admit that they've come up short since the "border war" that heated up with their signing of Curtis Martin,..and as a Patriots fan, I'm enjoying it...

HUH?What Jet fans never admitted this.. One team has 3 Super Bowls since and one team has none..What's to not admit? You SHOULD enjoy it. The whole point of Chase's rant is all about how much it sucked for the Jets and their fans as everything between them broke the Pats way.Heck, I was even talking to another fan about Vince Wilfork and again, it's so damn frustrating that our imbecile GM at the time sold the farm for Dewayne Robertson while we watch the Pats drop back for Ty Warren AND have Vince Wilfork fall in their laps the following year... UNBELIEVABLE.... The things that aligned for the Pats since that Bledsoe hit. And at that moment, as Chase alluded to, as a Jets fan, you had to think that hit and Bledsoe injured was going to mean some real good things that year.

It has nothing to do with developing that talent. These players come in, pre-motivated, pre-polished and ready to go, right? When they drafted Warren, many people still felt it was too high. Yes, they fell back, and got another pick the following year, which IIRC turned to be the VW. UNBELIEVABLE? OF, good management of the team? I give the latter. YOu and others can sit back in awe and call it unbelievable luck. I sit back in awe at the skillful mastery of the plan, and then the executuoion of the plan.

 

[PMENFAN]

Whats funny is everyone wants to kick the champ while he is down. And some of us are plain happy to watch Peyton go to his first SB. I think what is lost on most of us is now everyone is talking about "The Pats - Colts rivalry", and this will go on for the next few years. Well I have a message for all my fellow Pats Fans, and all of you Colts Fans out there. "My" Patriots better get younger and quicker at LB and better at WR and fast. The Colts better win this year, and even if they do they better ask Peyton, Wayne and Harrison better take cuts so they can sure up the middle of that D. The new power in the AFC is in San Diego. Mark my words. They may have failed the first time (as most teams do the first time around), but they won't make the same mistakes next year IMHO. IMHO - San Diego has a very good chance of winning the AFC 2 or 3 times over the next 5 years.

If they lose Baby Bum to Dallas, they'll be hard pressed to repeat in the West. The AFC is very good, and losing both Coordinators is very, very difficult to recover from. I don't think Marty is the type of (lame duck) coach who can pull that off. And, if he leaves next year? Then what? It's a coaches league. Talent is only half of the equation. They have talent. Now you have to organize it into a cohesive unit. That'll be a struggle for SD next year, and maybe years to come. Good coordinators like Cam Cameron on offense don't fall off of trees. And while I'm not high on babby Bum as a HC (he was horrible in Denver) he's on of the best DC's we've seen over the last 15-20 years in the league, having a top notch unit everywhere he goes.

 

[Saints-Man]

Great read, Chase. I happen to like the Pats & Brady, but I like the Colts & Manning more.

I do have a question for you. You said you hated Peyton Manning because he decided to stay in school and the Jets then traded the top pick to the Colts. I always perceived that he stayed in school solely because that is what he wanted to do and not because he didn't want to play for the Jets. Can you shed any more info on this?

 

[Boston]

One of the funny things about this rant is the author roots for a team that is now using the same blueprint for success as the team he dumps on. I look forward to the follow-up rant should the Jets finally become a stable organization that competes for titles every year due to luck.

 

[Reaper]

Jet fans will never admit that they've come up short since the "border war" that heated up with their signing of Curtis Martin,..and as a Patriots fan, I'm enjoying it...

HUH?What Jet fans never admitted this.. One team has 3 Super Bowls since and one team has none..What's to not admit? You SHOULD enjoy it. The whole point of Chase's rant is all about how much it sucked for the Jets and their fans as everything between them broke the Pats way.Heck, I was even talking to another fan about Vince Wilfork and again, it's so damn frustrating that our imbecile GM at the time sold the farm for Dewayne Robertson while we watch the Pats drop back for Ty Warren AND have Vince Wilfork fall in their laps the following year... UNBELIEVABLE.... The things that aligned for the Pats since that Bledsoe hit. And at that moment, as Chase alluded to, as a Jets fan, you had to think that hit and Bledsoe injured was going to mean some real good things that year.

It has nothing to do with developing that talent. These players come in, pre-motivated, pre-polished and ready to go, right? When they drafted Warren, many people still felt it was too high. Yes, they fell back, and got another pick the following year, which IIRC turned to be the VW. UNBELIEVABLE? OF, good management of the team? I give the latter. YOu and others can sit back in awe and call it unbelievable luck. I sit back in awe at the skillful mastery of the plan, and then the executuoion of the plan.

My reply was to someone who said Jets fans "Never admitted" that the Pats came out on top in the border wars. I think at this point we all agree the Pats are tops at developing and finding talent for their system...Finding and developing talent I didn't consider Luck and in no way can I compare Terry Bradway / Herm Edwards to what Pioli and Belichik have dones with the player develoment..... For heaven's sake, Bradway admitted he felt flustered by losing some players to the Skins and had to make a splash in that draft so he did what he had to do to get Robertson (not THAT is unbelievable) - After being demoted Bradway also admitted he worked Part Time From home.....Well, It was kind of lucky to have such an ### like Bradway and Herm in the same division...lolBut, the difference between our teams in that aspect was management....Back to the luck thing, I think most of the Pats "Luck" was in that 1st year Super Bowl run... I think BB and the organization were on the right track (well, when you look back now) but, that SB came gift wrapped at least a year premature and that's just the way things broke out - That whole season after Bledsoe was out was one crazy game after another for the Pats. The Pats wer elooked at as quite fortunate well before the Tuck play, that was just the capper.And yeah, later on the players like Wilfork who fell in their laps really helped... I do consider it lucky when you have a draft aligned with your needs.. Yeah, some of that was by design. But, Some years DT's are a priority and an idiot might sell his soul for one and others they fall.. Some drafts, a GM might sell his whole draft for 1 RB and others they may fall... Wilfork came out a year after there was a DT craze and was a great opportunity for the Pats.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I do have a question for you. You said you hated Peyton Manning because he decided to stay in school and the Jets then traded the top pick to the Colts. I always perceived that he stayed in school solely because that is what he wanted to do and not because he didn't want to play for the Jets. Can you shed any more info on this?

No, this is was pure, irrational Manning hatred.

 

[Browns Rule!]

This is like one of those celebrity roasts, right? Where people get up and poke fun at others accomplishments.Will Brady ever have the gawdy stats that others have? No.Will Brady ever place blame on others for not winning?No.Would I trade Brady for anyother QB in the league?No.

As a Browns fan, I would have never traded Bernie Kosar for another QB in the league either.

 

[Bad_Mo]

Patriots RantPosted by Chase Stuart on Monday, January 15, 2007Warning: You should check this post first.Now that that’s out of the way, I’m going to go on a Patriots rant. This might become a two day rant.

Can you make it a three day rant?You know, one day for each championship they have won in this decade....

 

[Saints-Man]

I do have a question for you. You said you hated Peyton Manning because he decided to stay in school and the Jets then traded the top pick to the Colts. I always perceived that he stayed in school solely because that is what he wanted to do and not because he didn't want to play for the Jets. Can you shed any more info on this?

No, this is was pure, irrational Manning hatred.

Thanks for the reply, Chase.