Pats penalty by Goodell (1 Viewer)

[Phlash]

If the Patriots go 16-0 and win the Superbowl this year are their SB wins still tainted?

Refs won't allow that. You can take that to the bank.

Seems fair enough.

 

[Marc Levin]

The draft pick is a stiff penalty and fair. No suspension is ridiculous. As someone already mentioned. Wade Wilson gets 5 games for taking a drug to treat ED so he can make love to his wife. Yet this gets no suspension? Please explain it to me........and sloooooooooowly, cause it makes no sense.

I agree...how does this make any sense???

I don't need to explain it slowly - it was a practical solution and was in the best interest of the league - forget punishment, and think penalty.This goes away NOW. No more media coverage, no more stories about the NFL cheating, no dragging out whether this was an appropriate penalty while BB sits at home, no coverage of the cheating while the Pats are on Sunday night football this weekend.The Pats quietly get smacked in the teeth by losing a first, other franchises won't do this b/c noone can afford to lose a first.The Pats luck out b/c they have another 1st and the organization isn't really hurt at all.BB is hurt in the pocketbook with a fine equal to 10% of his salary - that is a big cut no matter how you look at it.

RK will likely help him by buying one of his houses (that he is asking 1 million for). RK will give him 1.5 million for it. RK likely is connected or knew about the cheating since they penalized the organization too.

It is still 500K BB doesn't get this year - and if Kraft buys BB's house this year, the league will look at that as circumventing the fine. Not saying it can't be circumvented - just that it is not "nothing" andnoone - not even Bill Gates - scoffs at someone taking 500G out of his pocket. He was fined TWICE what the team was fined - that is a statement fine.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

If the Patriots go 16-0 and win the Superbowl this year are their SB wins still tainted?

The previous ones? Yeah, sure.The one they won without cheating? No.

 

[Marc Levin]

"Cheating" is not the Patriots or the Patriot way, no matter how the haters want to spin it and blow it up. The superb level of Partiot play will only continue to flourish and succeed. The Patriots are a"character" team and although I wish this hadn't happened I have no doubt the Pats will continue to be about playing "total" football as a model organization.

What do you drink to wash sand down?

Kool-Aid.(p.s. - official request for a koolaid smilie?)

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I wonder if the Patriots organization, Kraft et al, will suspend Belichick? I simply can't understand any

justification for Goodell not suspending Bellichick other than a wink-nod with the Patriots that the

suspension will be issued by the organization. Hopefully he and his whole staff are punishied by the

organization as well as fired at the end of the season. Now, I certainly acknowledge the owner and such

would've had some knowledge this cheating was going on; but, I'm not sure exactly what actions can be

taken against team ownership. Please let me know how idiotic this sounds, thanks!

Right. This makes us look bad. Let's go ahead and fire Bill Belichick.Wow. What color is the sky in your world?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

From Goodell:

"I specifically considered whether to impose a suspension on Coach Belichick," Goodell also wrote. "I have determined not to do so, largely because I believe that the discipline I am imposing of a maximum fine and forfeiture of a first-round draft choice, or multiple draft choices, is in fact more significant and long-lasting, and therefore more effective, than a suspension."

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Totally serious. The Pats will easily overcome the loss of a pick that would be an overall #27-32 pick. They won't miss a beat.J

But thats not the issue. It shouldn't even part of the penalty deliberation.They lost a 1st round pick in what many think is the best draft class in a quarter century.Also that draft pick can get 5 years on a very favorable rookie contract. That will leave a serious mark. Just because they can handle it (as I know my Steelers could) doesnt change the "properness" of the penalty.

Joe didn't say the penalty was appropriate, he said Patriot fans should be happy with this penalty as opposed to what it could have been.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I would have liked to have seen a suspension of BB, but overall this penalty seems reasonable to me. Losing a 1st rounder is a big deal and ought to be enough to send a clear message to the rest of the league.

I'm actually more bothered by the fact that the pick is contingent on whether the Pats make the playoffs, but since they're in the same conference as Mia, Buf and NYJ I don't think that's going to be an issue.

The playoff protection of the pick is not about the Patriots any more than the $500,000 is about Belichick. It's about precedent. Let's say Oakland gets caught doing this next week, what happens to them? Do they lose a pick that could very well be the #1 overall pick next year? That's not very fair. If they have an early pick, losing an early second and an early third is harsh enough. Losing the #1 overall pick for the same offense that another team lost, say, the #32, would be unfair.

Similarly, the $500,000 isn't about fining Belichick. It's also about scaring future head coaches - especially the one year guys who are over their heads and won't last more than a year or two - from cheating because they have nothing to lose. Otherwise what's to stop a stopgap guy like the Oakland coach du jour from trying to cheat to win a few games and saving his job, when really all he's doing is ####### over the Raiders on the way out the door?

I had not thought of that. Good point.

 

[Bankerguy]

The draft pick is a stiff penalty and fair. No suspension is ridiculous. As someone already mentioned. Wade Wilson gets 5 games for taking a drug to treat ED so he can make love to his wife. Yet this gets no suspension? Please explain it to me........and sloooooooooowly, cause it makes no sense.

I agree...how does this make any sense???

I don't need to explain it slowly - it was a practical solution and was in the best interest of the league - forget punishment, and think penalty.This goes away NOW. No more media coverage, no more stories about the NFL cheating, no dragging out whether this was an appropriate penalty while BB sits at home, no coverage of the cheating while the Pats are on Sunday night football this weekend.The Pats quietly get smacked in the teeth by losing a first, other franchises won't do this b/c noone can afford to lose a first.The Pats luck out b/c they have another 1st and the organization isn't really hurt at all.BB is hurt in the pocketbook with a fine equal to 10% of his salary - that is a big cut no matter how you look at it.

RK will likely help him by buying one of his houses (that he is asking 1 million for). RK will give him 1.5 million for it. RK likely is connected or knew about the cheating since they penalized the organization too.

It is still 500K BB doesn't get this year - and if Kraft buys BB's house this year, the league will look at that as circumventing the fine. Not saying it can't be circumvented - just that it is not "nothing" andnoone - not even Bill Gates - scoffs at someone taking 500G out of his pocket. He was fined TWICE what the team was fined - that is a statement fine.

The 500K is a farse. It does nothing. A year after BB retires he could make that money back by doing a commercial for Minolta and their new zoom lenses or someone #### that like that. Good grief.

 

[mad sweeney]

"I specifically considered whether to impose a suspension on Coach Belichick," Goodell also wrote. "I have determined not to do so, largely because I believe that the discipline I am imposing of a maximum fine and forfeiture of a first-round draft choice, or multiple draft choices, is in fact more significant and long-lasting, and therefore more effective, than a suspension."

It's a political world people. The non-suspension is a product of Goodell's value calculation on the brand tarnishment that would have occurred associated with the suspension of an NFL coach (despite his "official explanation"). So he basically went with the max constitutional penalty and severe on the picks. As predicted, more severe than most Pats fans would like, and not nearly severe enough for the haters.There will be some gloating and smack talk that bubbles up this weekend if the Bolts win, but the real thing to watch is what kind of record the Patriots achieve this year after week 1 without cameras. If they go 5-11, I'll feel like a kid who's been told there is no Santa. If they go 14-2 I will bump every post I can find about the team that can't win without cheating.

Not everyone that thinks it's a cop out is a hater. That's one of the problems with this board, if you're for something you'r a homer or player owner. If you're against something you're a hater, division rival, or owner of a different player. It's not that simple. I don't hate the Pats, nor Brady or Belicheat. I love the NFL and I believe, unlike many, that the info from the cameraman was instantly processed and useful and provided an unfair advantage in many of their games. The tech is there to do that. Less than a million bucks and a draft pick of which you have two (and only kept 2 of your draft class this year) is not really a deterrent for the rewards of a SB win, much less 3. What did that Glazer's say about the $8mil they paid the Raiders for Gruden after their SB win. Worth Every Penny.

I am not a hater, I am not a Pats fan, the punishment was weak.

I already wanted the Chargers to crush them this weekend (Chargers beat themselves, no need to even accuse the Pats for last year), but now I want them to really crush the Pats. But more than that, I want the Bolts to do it with the class that has been wrongly attributed to the Pats over the last few years. With their on field display last year, their own banned substance scandals, VideoGate, and clearly some other shenanigans (particularly RF shananigans which weren't addressed) the Pats are no longer the righteous Golden Team. So Stay Classy San Diego, beat the Pats and DON"T BE #######S ABOUT IT!!!!

 

[Sweeper]

How does this "tarnish" and "put a question mark" on the Patriots and their previous SB victories? Reactions and comments made by players on other teams make it obvious that this is not all that uncommon of an undertaking. The Pats are simply the first team, not to get caught, but to get fined. So knowing it has gone on previously, how does it tarnish past performances?

Well, it doesn't negate the SB wins, and it shouldn't. But I think it definitely tarnishes the team. This i s a franchise that has built their reputation on simply executing better than anyone else in spite of not loading up with star players, mainly because their coaches are smarter and better tacticians than everyone else's. Doesn't the admission of cheating cast some doubt on that?

To some extent but like I have been saying ... this practice is common in the NFL and done (to some extent) by many teams. It is simply a matter of degree. It is okay for a team to study an opponent's hand signals and listen in on play calling, just not to use a camera for that specific purpose? I didn't know that was a violation. Did you? As mentioned earlier in this thread, last year the Dolphins boasted that they knew what the Pats were going to do because they studied the audio and hand signals over the week before the game. When the Pats lost that game I was thinking ... "smart move, the Pats got one-up'd on that one and I bet that never happens again". Why was that play-call "scouting" okay but not this one? What wasn't that called out as cheating by the NFL but this was?

 

[teeman11]

The draft pick is a stiff penalty and fair. No suspension is ridiculous. As someone already mentioned. Wade Wilson gets 5 games for taking a drug to treat ED so he can make love to his wife. Yet this gets no suspension? Please explain it to me........and sloooooooooowly, cause it makes no sense.

HGH makes your diabetes WORSE, according to most doctors. That "excuse" was a joke.

Fine I am NOT a doctor nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn last night. However, help me with the following then:A COACH takes HGH how does that help his team?BB is caught cheating and giving his team a significant edge.One offense gets 5 games, and the other no games. WTF.Please know, I am not a Pats hater.However, as an NFL fan first and foremost I am disgusted by this ruling.

One is a coach who bought a banned substance, yea he used it on himself but still, he had it. I'm sure the rules are standard for being in possesion of a banned substance beit a player or coach. He got 5 games and 100k fine.The other used a video camera. It's not that he was stealing signs which every team, player, coach, and analyst has agreed happens all the time, it's just the way he did it. He/the team got a 750k fine and will probable lose a 1st round pick, which is huge. Granted, they have another but that should not factor into the decision, teams trade away and for picks all of the time but they are only GIVEN one 1st round pick from the league therefore they should only take one 1st round pick away.

 

[conan2]

luvin everyone assuming it's going to be a 1st rounder the Pats lose.

Perfect penalty...Pats fans think it's too much, everyone else thinks it's not enough.

 

[mad sweeney]

"Cheating" is not the Patriots or the Patriot way, no matter how the haters want to spin it and blow it up. The superb level of Partiot play will only continue to flourish and succeed. The Patriots are a"character" team and although I wish this hadn't happened I have no doubt the Pats will continue to be about playing "total" football as a model organization.

So I guess Goodell is a hater, eh? Sorry AP, your team cheated and got caught. Their character is in doubt and in the minds of millions their SB wins have a tarnish. If everyone but BB in the organization is class and character then you can thank him for the taint. But the facts are, based on severe punishments by the league, that the Pats cheat.

 

[Daywalker]

I would have liked to have seen a suspension of BB, but overall this penalty seems reasonable to me. Losing a 1st rounder is a big deal and ought to be enough to send a clear message to the rest of the league.

I'm actually more bothered by the fact that the pick is contingent on whether the Pats make the playoffs, but since they're in the same conference as Mia, Buf and NYJ I don't think that's going to be an issue.

The playoff protection of the pick is not about the Patriots any more than the $500,000 is about Belichick. It's about precedent. Let's say Oakland gets caught doing this next week, what happens to them? Do they lose a pick that could very well be the #1 overall pick next year? That's not very fair. If they have an early pick, losing an early second and an early third is harsh enough. Losing the #1 overall pick for the same offense that another team lost, say, the #32, would be unfair.

Similarly, the $500,000 isn't about fining Belichick. It's also about scaring future head coaches - especially the one year guys who are over their heads and won't last more than a year or two - from cheating because they have nothing to lose. Otherwise what's to stop a stopgap guy like the Oakland coach du jour from trying to cheat to win a few games and saving his job, when really all he's doing is ####### over the Raiders on the way out the door?

I had not thought of that. Good point.

The forfeiture of draft pick(s) would be conditional just like it is in the Pats case. The Pats cannot lose the #1 pick in the draft.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Pats should be thankful, because if it was my decision it would have been much worse.

Shocking. Jon, please go back to playing poker.

Hey, who was the fraud again? Ouch.

 

[KarmaPolice]

How does this "tarnish" and "put a question mark" on the Patriots and their previous SB victories? Reactions and comments made by players on other teams make it obvious that this is not all that uncommon of an undertaking. The Pats are simply the first team, not to get caught, but to get fined. So knowing it has gone on previously, how does it tarnish past performances?

Well, it doesn't negate the SB wins, and it shouldn't. But I think it definitely tarnishes the team. This is a franchise that has built their reputation on simply executing better than anyone else in spite of not loading up with star players, mainly because their coaches are smarter and better tacticians than everyone else's. Doesn't the admission of cheating cast some doubt on that?

To some extent but like I have been saying ... this practice is common in the NFL and by many teams. It is simply a matter of degree. It is okay for a team to study an opponent's hand signals and listen in on play calling, just not to use a camera for that specific purpose? I didn't know that was a violation. Did you? As mentioned earlier in this thread, the Dolphins boasted that they knew what the Pats were going to do because they studied the audio and hand signals over the week before the game. When the Pats lost that game I was thinking ... "smart move, the Pats got showed up on that one and I bet that never happens again". Why was that play-call "scouting" okay but not this one? What wasn't that called out as cheating by the NFL but this was?

Serious question - what is the EXACT rule that they broke. Would they get busted if they had a scout at the SD game in the stands with binoculars studying the signals for the game? My big question is: Was this info used during the game, or was this being taped for analysis for a future game? IF it was used during the game - how??

 

[simey]

Totally serious. The Pats will overcome the loss of a pick that would be an overall #27-32 pick. They won't miss a beat.J

I think they will overcome the penalty just fine. What is the most damaging to them is that there will always be a dark cloud hanging over those 3 titles. Those golden years are now tainted.

So does the fact the Pats used a snowblower to clear a strip for their kicker back in the 70's vs the Dolphins taint everything they have done since?Pull your head out man, it means NOTHING other than dont do it again...

If you don't think that this has hurt their reputation, and that eyebrows are being raised about their past achievements over the last few years, you are the one with your head in the sand, man.

 

[Marc Levin]

The draft pick is a stiff penalty and fair. No suspension is ridiculous. As someone already mentioned. Wade Wilson gets 5 games for taking a drug to treat ED so he can make love to his wife. Yet this gets no suspension? Please explain it to me........and sloooooooooowly, cause it makes no sense.

I agree...how does this make any sense???

I don't need to explain it slowly - it was a practical solution and was in the best interest of the league - forget punishment, and think penalty.This goes away NOW. No more media coverage, no more stories about the NFL cheating, no dragging out whether this was an appropriate penalty while BB sits at home, no coverage of the cheating while the Pats are on Sunday night football this weekend.The Pats quietly get smacked in the teeth by losing a first, other franchises won't do this b/c noone can afford to lose a first.The Pats luck out b/c they have another 1st and the organization isn't really hurt at all.BB is hurt in the pocketbook with a fine equal to 10% of his salary - that is a big cut no matter how you look at it.

RK will likely help him by buying one of his houses (that he is asking 1 million for). RK will give him 1.5 million for it. RK likely is connected or knew about the cheating since they penalized the organization too.

It is still 500K BB doesn't get this year - and if Kraft buys BB's house this year, the league will look at that as circumventing the fine. Not saying it can't be circumvented - just that it is not "nothing" andnoone - not even Bill Gates - scoffs at someone taking 500G out of his pocket. He was fined TWICE what the team was fined - that is a statement fine.

The 500K is a farse. It does nothing. A year after BB retires he could make that money back by doing a commercial for Minolta and their new zoom lenses or someone #### that like that. Good grief.

It is not a farce just becausde HE can make it back.What about HC from Arizona, Oakland, Minnesota, etc., where the coaching seat is kept warm for two - three years and the coach could find himself with nothing to do and no job if he doesn;t win - 500K fine sure as shizznit dissuades that guy from cheating in order to win.The penalty is not supposed to suit the criminal - it is supposed to suit the crime.

 

[Bankerguy]

The draft pick is a stiff penalty and fair. No suspension is ridiculous. As someone already mentioned. Wade Wilson gets 5 games for taking a drug to treat ED so he can make love to his wife. Yet this gets no suspension? Please explain it to me........and sloooooooooowly, cause it makes no sense.

HGH makes your diabetes WORSE, according to most doctors. That "excuse" was a joke.

Fine I am NOT a doctor nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn last night. However, help me with the following then:A COACH takes HGH how does that help his team?BB is caught cheating and giving his team a significant edge.One offense gets 5 games, and the other no games. WTF.Please know, I am not a Pats hater.However, as an NFL fan first and foremost I am disgusted by this ruling.

One is a coach who bought a banned substance, yea he used it on himself but still, he had it. I'm sure the rules are standard for being in possesion of a banned substance beit a player or coach. He got 5 games and 100k fine.The other used a video camera. It's not that he was stealing signs which every team, player, coach, and analyst has agreed happens all the time, it's just the way he did it. He/the team got a 750k fine and will probable lose a 1st round pick, which is huge. Granted, they have another but that should not factor into the decision, teams trade away and for picks all of the time but they are only GIVEN one 1st round pick from the league therefore they should only take one 1st round pick away.

That's why we test the players. Who cares what Wilson puts in his body?A coach who takes medication (even if a banned substance) > a coach caught cheating. Very hard to swallow.

 

[snorlax]

OH, let the defense have 1 player who wears a helmet with audio (Like the offense)

I'm pretty sure that the Competition Committee looked at this rule change in the offseason but eventually decided against it. I haven't seen the reasoning behind their decision.

 

[LDotson]

I feel bad for the Pat's players that were 'kept in the dark' about what goes on.

It has to hurt their confidence as an athlete and player.

They may now assume they aren't as of good player as they thought.

Plus, other teams might not think so when they become free agents.

 

[Longshot88]

"I specifically considered whether to impose a suspension on Coach Belichick," Goodell also wrote. "I have determined not to do so, largely because I believe that the discipline I am imposing of a maximum fine and forfeiture of a first-round draft choice, or multiple draft choices, is in fact more significant and long-lasting, and therefore more effective, than a suspension."

It's a political world people. The non-suspension is a product of Goodell's value calculation on the brand tarnishment that would have occurred associated with the suspension of an NFL coach (despite his "official explanation"). So he basically went with the max constitutional penalty and severe on the picks. As predicted, more severe than most Pats fans would like, and not nearly severe enough for the haters.There will be some gloating and smack talk that bubbles up this weekend if the Bolts win, but the real thing to watch is what kind of record the Patriots achieve this year after week 1 without cameras. If they go 5-11, I'll feel like a kid who's been told there is no Santa. If they go 14-2 I will bump every post I can find about the team that can't win without cheating.

Not everyone that thinks it's a cop out is a hater. That's one of the problems with this board, if you're for something you'r a homer or player owner. If you're against something you're a hater, division rival, or owner of a different player. It's not that simple. I don't hate the Pats, nor Brady or Belicheat. I love the NFL and I believe, unlike many, that the info from the cameraman was instantly processed and useful and provided an unfair advantage in many of their games. The tech is there to do that. Less than a million bucks and a draft pick of which you have two (and only kept 2 of your draft class this year) is not really a deterrent for the rewards of a SB win, much less 3. What did that Glazer's say about the $8mil they paid the Raiders for Gruden after their SB win. Worth Every Penny.

I am not a hater, I am not a Pats fan, the punishment was weak.

I already wanted the Chargers to crush them this weekend (Chargers beat themselves, no need to even accuse the Pats for last year), but now I want them to really crush the Pats. But more than that, I want the Bolts to do it with the class that has been wrongly attributed to the Pats over the last few years. With their on field display last year, their own banned substance scandals, VideoGate, and clearly some other shenanigans (particularly RF shananigans which weren't addressed) the Pats are no longer the righteous Golden Team. So Stay Classy San Diego, beat the Pats and DON"T BE #######S ABOUT IT!!!!

 

[teeman11]

luvin everyone assuming it's going to be a 1st rounder the Pats lose.Perfect penalty...Pats fans think it's too much, everyone else thinks it's not enough.

I'm a Pats fan and I think it's fair. And of course it will be a first, do you really think that the pats aren't going to make the playoffs?

 

[dparker713]

Do coaches get game checks like the players? Because if they do Belicheck got off extremely light.

 

[Marc Levin]

How does this "tarnish" and "put a question mark" on the Patriots and their previous SB victories? Reactions and comments made by players on other teams make it obvious that this is not all that uncommon of an undertaking. The Pats are simply the first team, not to get caught, but to get fined. So knowing it has gone on previously, how does it tarnish past performances?

Well, it doesn't negate the SB wins, and it shouldn't. But I think it definitely tarnishes the team. This is a franchise that has built their reputation on simply executing better than anyone else in spite of not loading up with star players, mainly because their coaches are smarter and better tacticians than everyone else's. Doesn't the admission of cheating cast some doubt on that?

To some extent but like I have been saying ... this practice is common in the NFL and by many teams. It is simply a matter of degree. It is okay for a team to study an opponent's hand signals and listen in on play calling, just not to use a camera for that specific purpose? I didn't know that was a violation. Did you? As mentioned earlier in this thread, the Dolphins boasted that they knew what the Pats were going to do because they studied the audio and hand signals over the week before the game. When the Pats lost that game I was thinking ... "smart move, the Pats got showed up on that one and I bet that never happens again". Why was that play-call "scouting" okay but not this one? What wasn't that called out as cheating by the NFL but this was?

Serious question - what is the EXACT rule that they broke. Would they get busted if they had a scout at the SD game in the stands with binoculars studying the signals for the game? My big question is: Was this info used during the game, or was this being taped for analysis for a future game? IF it was used during the game - how??

Karma, sorry to put it this way, but you are in this game WAY too late if you are asking these questions - check the big thread or one of the smaller ones.In short: binocs are fine, video or cameras onthe sidelines is illegal. Stealing signals is OK, using video or photos is not. There are ways to use the info during the game to get a competitive advantage.'nuff said - any further questions, please check those threads first as the gground ius covered every few pages in those threads.

 

[conan2]

OH, let the defense have 1 player who wears a helmet with audio (Like the offense)

I'm pretty sure that the Competition Committee looked at this rule change in the offseason but eventually decided against it. I haven't seen the reasoning behind their decision.

They voted, 22-10 for giving a defensive player a wired helmet...but they needed 24 to get the change.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

If true...No Belichick suspension = BS ruling

I knew he'd show his racist stripes.

 

[bostonfred]

Does anyone know the last time a team lost a first round pick as a punishment? Has it happened before?

 

[Evilgrin 72]

If the Patriots really are such a high character organization, they should can Belichick for this. We'll see.

 

[Bankerguy]

The draft pick is a stiff penalty and fair. No suspension is ridiculous. As someone already mentioned. Wade Wilson gets 5 games for taking a drug to treat ED so he can make love to his wife. Yet this gets no suspension? Please explain it to me........and sloooooooooowly, cause it makes no sense.

I agree...how does this make any sense???

I don't need to explain it slowly - it was a practical solution and was in the best interest of the league - forget punishment, and think penalty.This goes away NOW. No more media coverage, no more stories about the NFL cheating, no dragging out whether this was an appropriate penalty while BB sits at home, no coverage of the cheating while the Pats are on Sunday night football this weekend.The Pats quietly get smacked in the teeth by losing a first, other franchises won't do this b/c noone can afford to lose a first.The Pats luck out b/c they have another 1st and the organization isn't really hurt at all.BB is hurt in the pocketbook with a fine equal to 10% of his salary - that is a big cut no matter how you look at it.

RK will likely help him by buying one of his houses (that he is asking 1 million for). RK will give him 1.5 million for it. RK likely is connected or knew about the cheating since they penalized the organization too.

It is still 500K BB doesn't get this year - and if Kraft buys BB's house this year, the league will look at that as circumventing the fine. Not saying it can't be circumvented - just that it is not "nothing" andnoone - not even Bill Gates - scoffs at someone taking 500G out of his pocket. He was fined TWICE what the team was fined - that is a statement fine.

The 500K is a farse. It does nothing. A year after BB retires he could make that money back by doing a commercial for Minolta and their new zoom lenses or someone #### that like that. Good grief.

It is not a farce just becausde HE can make it back.What about HC from Arizona, Oakland, Minnesota, etc., where the coaching seat is kept warm for two - three years and the coach could find himself with nothing to do and no job if he doesn;t win - 500K fine sure as shizznit dissuades that guy from cheating in order to win.The penalty is not supposed to suit the criminal - it is supposed to suit the crime.

Totally agree. Simply trying to illistrate that 500K is nothing to BB. Suspending him hurts more as does scaring others from doing it? *IF* he knew he was retiring this year why not cheat then....no skin off his nose if the Pats lose a future draft pick RIGHT???

 

[Pat Patriot]

I am sure whatever penalty is imposed will be appealed and am willing to bet that there is some sort of concession made with a more palatable penalty.

The Patriots better accept this and be happy. It should have been much worse. Goodell is the one that imposed the penalty, I sincerely doubt he'll determine he was too harsh. It will not be reduced.

How? Forfeit all draft picks for the next 10 years and be docked $30 million off the salary cap?I have already said that I think Belichek should have been suspended 4 games. Any penalty to Belichek you want to give I am happy with. How could you possibly punish the team "much worse"?

I would have been happy with....A fine to the organizination.

BB suspended 4-6 games.

A 2 nd or a 3rd round draft pick.

....and the Commish threatening a banning to next person caught doing it.

Without integrity this game we all love means nothing.

OH, let the defense have 1 player who wears a helmet with audio (Like the offense)

I would agree with your penalty and I dont think that is worse than what they got.

 

[Kool-Aid]

(p.s. - official request for a koolaid smilie?)

OH YEAH!!!

 

[bostonfred]

OH, let the defense have 1 player who wears a helmet with audio (Like the offense)

I'm pretty sure that the Competition Committee looked at this rule change in the offseason but eventually decided against it. I haven't seen the reasoning behind their decision.

They voted, 22-10 for giving a defensive player a wired helmet...but they needed 24 to get the change.

I'd be interested in knowing which 10 were against it, especially since there are rumors that there are about ten teams known to steal defensive signals like this.

 

[conan2]

luvin everyone assuming it's going to be a 1st rounder the Pats lose.Perfect penalty...Pats fans think it's too much, everyone else thinks it's not enough.

I'm a Pats fan and I think it's fair. And of course it will be a first, do you really think that the pats aren't going to make the playoffs?

Quite the opposite. Go Pats!Gonna be an awesome game Sunday night...can't wait!Glad we can finally get back to talking football.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

I think the most appropriate penalty would've been to fine the Patriots part of their salary cap over the next 2-3 years.

 

[Marc Levin]

OH, let the defense have 1 player who wears a helmet with audio (Like the offense)

I'm pretty sure that the Competition Committee looked at this rule change in the offseason but eventually decided against it. I haven't seen the reasoning behind their decision.

Short by two votes, primarily b/c (unlike the QB) the same defensive player/position is not necessarily always on the field and calling the defensive plays to the teammates (IOW, if ray Lewis is off the field, maybe Ed Reed calls the d plays - or vice versa - and you can't have two D players on the field both with radio helmets.

 

[raor]

I wonder if the Patriots organization, Kraft et al, will suspend Belichick? I simply can't understand any

justification for Goodell not suspending Bellichick other than a wink-nod with the Patriots that the

suspension will be issued by the organization. Hopefully he and his whole staff are punishied by the

organization as well as fired at the end of the season. Now, I certainly acknowledge the owner and such

would've had some knowledge this cheating was going on; but, I'm not sure exactly what actions can be

taken against team ownership. Please let me know how idiotic this sounds, thanks!

Right. This makes us look bad. Let's go ahead and fire Bill Belichick.Wow. What color is the sky in your world?

Isn't his contract up at the end of the season - maybe I should've said that they shouldn't re-up him. In any case,if the Patriots are such a model of doing things the right way, why on Earth would they want to continue to employ

a known cheater? On top of the cheating, you also have all the other Bellichick baggage (adultery, hobo-ism,

perputual anti-socialism regarding the football community, etc, etc) that has to factor into the decision to keep him.

Firing him allows the organization to seperate itself somewhat from culpability for this mess (I'm assuming this

doesn't die entirely until the season ends). Then again, with the rabid homerism displayed by Patriots fans I'm

doubting this is really an issue for their fanbase - too bad. I know if Lovie Smith or Tony Dungy (teams I root for,

ya tough Superbowl last year) were found out to be doing this I would be outraged and demand the treatment I

outlined above.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I am sure whatever penalty is imposed will be appealed and am willing to bet that there is some sort of concession made with a more palatable penalty.

The Patriots better accept this and be happy. It should have been much worse. Goodell is the one that imposed the penalty, I sincerely doubt he'll determine he was too harsh. It will not be reduced.

How? Forfeit all draft picks for the next 10 years and be docked $30 million off the salary cap?I have already said that I think Belichek should have been suspended 4 games. Any penalty to Belichek you want to give I am happy with. How could you possibly punish the team "much worse"?

I would have been happy with....A fine to the organizination.

BB suspended 4-6 games.

A 2 nd or a 3rd round draft pick.

....and the Commish threatening a banning to next person caught doing it.

Without integrity this game we all love means nothing.

OH, let the defense have 1 player who wears a helmet with audio (Like the offense)

I would agree with your penalty and I dont think that is worse than what they got.

In all seriousness, maybe the worst part about this is that the Pats' mini-dynasty will now forever be viewed with similar skepticism to Bonds' home run record. There will always be that asterisk.

 

[Pat Patriot]

If the Patriots really are such a high character organization, they should can Belichick for this. We'll see.

Dont mistake the character of the players with that of ownership. Kraft is a drunk and a hypocrite. He will not fire Belichek over this. If the Pats coaching staff hadnt been scattered across the country over the past 4 years and his replacement was already in house, I would be completely happy with Belichek resigning right now.

 

[UlyssesNorris]

How does this "tarnish" and "put a question mark" on the Patriots and their previous SB victories? Reactions and comments made by players on other teams make it obvious that this is not all that uncommon of an undertaking. The Pats are simply the first team, not to get caught, but to get fined. So knowing it has gone on previously, how does it tarnish past performances?

Well, it doesn't negate the SB wins, and it shouldn't. But I think it definitely tarnishes the team. This i s a franchise that has built their reputation on simply executing better than anyone else in spite of not loading up with star players, mainly because their coaches are smarter and better tacticians than everyone else's. Doesn't the admission of cheating cast some doubt on that?

To some extent but like I have been saying ... this practice is common in the NFL and done (to some extent) by many teams. It is simply a matter of degree. It is okay for a team to study an opponent's hand signals and listen in on play calling, just not to use a camera for that specific purpose? I didn't know that was a violation. Did you? As mentioned earlier in this thread, last year the Dolphins boasted that they knew what the Pats were going to do because they studied the audio and hand signals over the week before the game. When the Pats lost that game I was thinking ... "smart move, the Pats got one-up'd on that one and I bet that never happens again". Why was that play-call "scouting" okay but not this one? What wasn't that called out as cheating by the NFL but this was?

I didn't know any of this stuff before this episode. But it's not surprising that videotaping an opponent's signals is a much more serious violation than just intercepting them in a more temporary manner. Having a video library at hand of what your opponents are doing at a given signal would seem to me to be pretty advantageous.

 

[Gambino]

I think the most appropriate penalty would've been to fine the Patriots part of their salary cap over the next 2-3 years.

 

[teeman11]

The draft pick is a stiff penalty and fair. No suspension is ridiculous. As someone already mentioned. Wade Wilson gets 5 games for taking a drug to treat ED so he can make love to his wife. Yet this gets no suspension? Please explain it to me........and sloooooooooowly, cause it makes no sense.

HGH makes your diabetes WORSE, according to most doctors. That "excuse" was a joke.

Fine I am NOT a doctor nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn last night. However, help me with the following then:A COACH takes HGH how does that help his team?BB is caught cheating and giving his team a significant edge.One offense gets 5 games, and the other no games. WTF.Please know, I am not a Pats hater.However, as an NFL fan first and foremost I am disgusted by this ruling.

One is a coach who bought a banned substance, yea he used it on himself but still, he had it. I'm sure the rules are standard for being in possesion of a banned substance beit a player or coach. He got 5 games and 100k fine.The other used a video camera. It's not that he was stealing signs which every team, player, coach, and analyst has agreed happens all the time, it's just the way he did it. He/the team got a 750k fine and will probable lose a 1st round pick, which is huge. Granted, they have another but that should not factor into the decision, teams trade away and for picks all of the time but they are only GIVEN one 1st round pick from the league therefore they should only take one 1st round pick away.

That's why we test the players. Who cares what Wilson puts in his body?A coach who takes medication (even if a banned substance) > a coach caught cheating. Very hard to swallow.

How do you know that all of it went into his body? If it's in he's body that means bought some. He coaches a professional sports team and has a banned substance. Is it a huge leap to think that some of it made it to the players? or that he got it from the players?

 

[Sweeper]

OH, let the defense have 1 player who wears a helmet with audio (Like the offense)

I'm pretty sure that the Competition Committee looked at this rule change in the offseason but eventually decided against it. I haven't seen the reasoning behind their decision.

They voted, 22-10 for giving a defensive player a wired helmet...but they needed 24 to get the change.

I'd be interested in knowing which 10 were against it, especially since there are rumors that there are about ten teams known to steal defensive signals like this.

do you know which 10? now that would be good information.

 

[Marc Levin]

The draft pick is a stiff penalty and fair. No suspension is ridiculous. As someone already mentioned. Wade Wilson gets 5 games for taking a drug to treat ED so he can make love to his wife. Yet this gets no suspension? Please explain it to me........and sloooooooooowly, cause it makes no sense.

I agree...how does this make any sense???

I don't need to explain it slowly - it was a practical solution and was in the best interest of the league - forget punishment, and think penalty.This goes away NOW. No more media coverage, no more stories about the NFL cheating, no dragging out whether this was an appropriate penalty while BB sits at home, no coverage of the cheating while the Pats are on Sunday night football this weekend.The Pats quietly get smacked in the teeth by losing a first, other franchises won't do this b/c noone can afford to lose a first.The Pats luck out b/c they have another 1st and the organization isn't really hurt at all.BB is hurt in the pocketbook with a fine equal to 10% of his salary - that is a big cut no matter how you look at it.

RK will likely help him by buying one of his houses (that he is asking 1 million for). RK will give him 1.5 million for it. RK likely is connected or knew about the cheating since they penalized the organization too.

It is still 500K BB doesn't get this year - and if Kraft buys BB's house this year, the league will look at that as circumventing the fine. Not saying it can't be circumvented - just that it is not "nothing" andnoone - not even Bill Gates - scoffs at someone taking 500G out of his pocket. He was fined TWICE what the team was fined - that is a statement fine.

The 500K is a farse. It does nothing. A year after BB retires he could make that money back by doing a commercial for Minolta and their new zoom lenses or someone #### that like that. Good grief.

It is not a farce just becausde HE can make it back.What about HC from Arizona, Oakland, Minnesota, etc., where the coaching seat is kept warm for two - three years and the coach could find himself with nothing to do and no job if he doesn;t win - 500K fine sure as shizznit dissuades that guy from cheating in order to win.The penalty is not supposed to suit the criminal - it is supposed to suit the crime.

Totally agree. Simply trying to illistrate that 500K is nothing to BB. Suspending him hurts more as does scaring others from doing it? *IF* he knew he was retiring this year why not cheat then....no skin off his nose if the Pats lose a future draft pick RIGHT???

As I mentioned, sus[ending BB drags it out and that is not in the league;s best interest.It is just fortunate for the Pats that this happened to BB who can handle a 500K penalty and that it happened in a year when they have TWO first round picks coming up.That is why Joe said the past fans should be about the penalty.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I wonder if the Patriots organization, Kraft et al, will suspend Belichick? I simply can't understand any

justification for Goodell not suspending Bellichick other than a wink-nod with the Patriots that the

suspension will be issued by the organization. Hopefully he and his whole staff are punishied by the

organization as well as fired at the end of the season. Now, I certainly acknowledge the owner and such

would've had some knowledge this cheating was going on; but, I'm not sure exactly what actions can be

taken against team ownership. Please let me know how idiotic this sounds, thanks!

Right. This makes us look bad. Let's go ahead and fire Bill Belichick.Wow. What color is the sky in your world?

Isn't his contract up at the end of the season - maybe I should've said that they shouldn't re-up him. In any case,if the Patriots are such a model of doing things the right way, why on Earth would they want to continue to employ

a known cheater? On top of the cheating, you also have all the other Bellichick baggage (adultery, hobo-ism,

perputual anti-socialism regarding the football community, etc, etc) that has to factor into the decision to keep him.

Firing him allows the organization to seperate itself somewhat from culpability for this mess (I'm assuming this

doesn't die entirely until the season ends). Then again, with the rabid homerism displayed by Patriots fans I'm

doubting this is really an issue for their fanbase - too bad. I know if Lovie Smith or Tony Dungy (teams I root for,

ya tough Superbowl last year) were found out to be doing this I would be outraged and demand the treatment I

outlined above.

Seriously, for a franchise so often touted as being all about character, their coach sure gets a lot of lee way both in his personal conduct (extramartial affair) and his conduct at the office (snubbing Mangini, cheating.)

 

[Bankerguy]

OH, let the defense have 1 player who wears a helmet with audio (Like the offense)

I'm pretty sure that the Competition Committee looked at this rule change in the offseason but eventually decided against it. I haven't seen the reasoning behind their decision.

Short by two votes, primarily b/c (unlike the QB) the same defensive player/position is not necessarily always on the field and calling the defensive plays to the teammates (IOW, if ray Lewis is off the field, maybe Ed Reed calls the d plays - or vice versa - and you can't have two D players on the field both with radio helmets.

These organizations make bazillions a year. I am sure they could afford to have spare helmets sitting around IF one of players with this cabability were to be hurt. Put the green dot on the helmet and the refs can police from there.

 

[cobalt_27]

Does anyone know the last time a team lost a first round pick as a punishment? Has it happened before?

That's my point. I don't think this is a light penalty, at all. Especially, given how you guys have been downplaying this infraction, saying it's not much of a big deal and that everyone does it. Sheesh. For such small potatoes, this all seems like a pretty stiff penalty to me.

 

[mad sweeney]

OH, let the defense have 1 player who wears a helmet with audio (Like the offense)

I'm pretty sure that the Competition Committee looked at this rule change in the offseason but eventually decided against it. I haven't seen the reasoning behind their decision.

The main problem is regulating who has it. Defense subs so many players in and out for different formations and subs that it would be hard for teams and refs to make sure they had a guy out there, and only 1 guy out there, with a radio. Wheras on offense there's always 1 QB, and that's why they now have the dot on them so if a qb lines up elsewhere there won't be 2 radios on the field. Imagine Ray Lewis has the radio, he goes out with injury and now Ed Reed has to go to the sidelines to get his radio helmet. Then Ray comes back in and they have to switch helmets again. Or Ray comes out for a dime or quarter package, they have to switch helmets. Tough for the refs and the defensive teams to keep track of. Dunno if that's the main reason, but it's the one I've seen discussed most.

 

[KarmaPolice]

How does this "tarnish" and "put a question mark" on the Patriots and their previous SB victories?

Reactions and comments made by players on other teams make it obvious that this is not all that uncommon of an undertaking. The Pats are simply the first team, not to get caught, but to get fined. So knowing it has gone on previously, how does it tarnish past performances?

Well, it doesn't negate the SB wins, and it shouldn't. But I think it definitely tarnishes the team. This is a franchise that has built their reputation on simply executing better than anyone else in spite of not loading up with star players, mainly because their coaches are smarter and better tacticians than everyone else's. Doesn't the admission of cheating cast some doubt on that?

To some extent but like I have been saying ... this practice is common in the NFL and by many teams. It is simply a matter of degree. It is okay for a team to study an opponent's hand signals and listen in on play calling, just not to use a camera for that specific purpose? I didn't know that was a violation. Did you?

As mentioned earlier in this thread, the Dolphins boasted that they knew what the Pats were going to do because they studied the audio and hand signals over the week before the game.

When the Pats lost that game I was thinking ... "smart move, the Pats got showed up on that one and I bet that never happens again". Why was that play-call "scouting" okay but not this one? What wasn't that called out as cheating by the NFL but this was?

Serious question - what is the EXACT rule that they broke. Would they get busted if they had a scout at the SD game in the stands with binoculars studying the signals for the game? My big question is: Was this info used during the game, or was this being taped for analysis for a future game? IF it was used during the game - how??

Karma, sorry to put it this way, but you are in this game WAY too late if you are asking these questions - check the big thread or one of the smaller ones.In short: binocs are fine, video or cameras onthe sidelines is illegal. Stealing signals is OK, using video or photos is not. There are ways to use the info during the game to get a competitive advantage.

'nuff said - any further questions, please check those threads first as the gground ius covered every few pages in those threads.

Sorry, have a new job and have my head up my ### about things like news. Didn't want to take the time to scroll through 10 threads to find info. I guess I have to if I want to learn exactly how it was used in-gmae.