Pats penalty by Goodell (1 Viewer)

[Demons]

In this era of the salary cap, a high pick is about money, not talent. A draft pick is cheaper than a comparable player as a free agent. They should have lost all of their 2008 draft picks and their coach should have been suspended for a year. That would have had a long-term effect, much like their cheating has had.

What does it say about the league that you have a head coach diddling a married woman and openly cheating? He has brought shame on his organization and the game. When you have a position like his, you should avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

As for Wade Wilson, I'm sure his suspension had more to do with a deal with the feds than wanting to hammer a coach.

 

[bostonfred]

Name the teams and cite the evidence or this is

Here you gohttp://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...p;#entry7332273

I'll help you out.Name the teams and cite the evidence or this is

It's a ten minute video, there's more than two minutes of discussion, and yet the clock shows you responded in two minutes. So I'm pretty sure you didn't watch it. I guess you only watch what you want to watch, just like you only see what you want to see. That's OK. I didn't expect a serious conversation with you anyways. It's nicer when there are mostly grown ups in the thread, but I didn't figure it would last.

I'll give you a third chance because I'm niceName the teams and cite the evidence or this is

If you can't, you can't. It's cool. Just admit it.

It's not in the podcast. I listened to it when it was posted the first time. Maybe you should hear it again.

Fred can't. Must be the grown-up thing to evade the question by referencing the latter part of an interview that added nothing to his argument.The evidence is simply that the accumulation of others' accounts suggests that as many as 10 teams are involved. None of those teams were named, and no evidence was produced by Schefter. Nice Red Herring by Fred.

There's no red herring here. Jones conveniently clipped it, because he's not interested in an honest conversation, but my quote was "there are supposedly ten teams that do this". I then showed the source for my supposition. That's more than enough evidence to back up my actual statement. There's no further burden of proof required. You're welcome to join sides with him on this one if you'd like, but you're factually incorrect to say that I'm evading the question by providing the link. I don't expect much from Jones, but that's not usually your thing.

 

[tombonneau]

Wow. Shocked that people think $750k and a 1st round pick is a light. A first round pick is extremely valuable. That is by far the most a team has been penalized. Denver cheated the cap to win two super bowls and lots a pair of 3rds.

I'm just glad it's over and BB wasn't suspended.

Interested to hear another Pats fan say they'd rather have BB suspended than lose a pick.

I couldn't be more the opposite. I just wanted this thing over with no suspension so they can move on with 2007. I'd hate for anything further to jeopardize the Pats 2007 chances at a SB.

With BB not suspended, the team is still on course.

Plus, they now have their Us vs. The World mentality on. Not good for the league, having a focused and out to prove themselves Patriots.

Glad this is over.

Btw, Goodell is a real man leaking it to the media.

They cheat and they're going to use this card? Whatever floats their boat I guess.....

I'm sure they all consider themselves cheaters. Trust me, they will be very motivated to prove to the world hat they "can win without cheating."

 

[HellToupee]

If the Jets come with-in one win of making the playoffs and the Pats go to the Super Bowl. It will hurt this league a lot.Can you imagine the media and fan out cry? And how bad this Super Bowl will be viewed?

that tape they were caught with had nothing to do with the results of last sunday

How do you know that? Did you miss the part yesterday about how the video can be viewed in real time by coaches, meaning they could have easily gotten the signals before the cameraman was nabbed.

Knowing that the camera was seized EM would have to be really negligent or incompetent not to go with alternate signals at the half .

 

[cobalt_27]

Does anyone know the last time a team lost a first round pick as a punishment? Has it happened before?

That's my point. I don't think this is a light penalty, at all. Especially, given how you guys have been downplaying this infraction, saying it's not much of a big deal and that everyone does it. Sheesh. For such small potatoes, this all seems like a pretty stiff penalty to me.

But their 1st is essentially a 2nd.

Still...

If this is a serious penalty ask yourself: how many of you would be willing to trade a late first round pick for a Super Bowl?

There are supposedly ten teams out there doing this with varying frequency. Apparently all ten of them have won multiple Superbowls recently.

Name the teams and cite the evidence or this is

Here you gohttp://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...p;#entry7332273

I'll help you out.Name the teams and cite the evidence or this is

It's a ten minute video, there's more than two minutes of discussion, and yet the clock shows you responded in two minutes. So I'm pretty sure you didn't watch it. I guess you only watch what you want to watch, just like you only see what you want to see. That's OK. I didn't expect a serious conversation with you anyways. It's nicer when there are mostly grown ups in the thread, but I didn't figure it would last.

By the way, fred, why are you watching an audio clip? Did you even listen to it? I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[teeman11]

If the Jets come with-in one win of making the playoffs and the Pats go to the Super Bowl. It will hurt this league a lot.Can you imagine the media and fan out cry? And how bad this Super Bowl will be viewed?

that tape they were caught with had nothing to do with the results of last sunday

How do you know that? Did you miss the part yesterday about how the video can be viewed in real time by coaches, meaning they could have easily gotten the signals before the cameraman was nabbed.

I read something about real time on this forum but nothing officail. Last I read it was a tape and it was confiscated in the first quarter, therefore having no impact on the outcome of the game.

 

[Ghost Rider]

If the Jets come with-in one win of making the playoffs and the Pats go to the Super Bowl. It will hurt this league a lot.

Can you imagine the media and fan out cry? And how bad this Super Bowl will be viewed?

that tape they were caught with had nothing to do with the results of last sunday

How do you know that? Did you miss the part yesterday about how the video can be viewed in real time by coaches, meaning they could have easily gotten the signals before the cameraman was nabbed.

Knowing that the camera was seized EM would have to be really negligent or incompetent not to go with alternate signals at the half .

Oh, so it is the Jets fault now, eh? Besides, I would think changing signals would take some time. Given how short half time is, I doubt any team would have time to completely change their signals.

 

[ChrisHenrysDD]

Name the teams and cite the evidence or this is

Here you gohttp://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...p;#entry7332273

I'll help you out.Name the teams and cite the evidence or this is

It's a ten minute video, there's more than two minutes of discussion, and yet the clock shows you responded in two minutes. So I'm pretty sure you didn't watch it. I guess you only watch what you want to watch, just like you only see what you want to see. That's OK. I didn't expect a serious conversation with you anyways. It's nicer when there are mostly grown ups in the thread, but I didn't figure it would last.

I'll give you a third chance because I'm niceName the teams and cite the evidence or this is

If you can't, you can't. It's cool. Just admit it.

It's not in the podcast. I listened to it when it was posted the first time. Maybe you should hear it again.

Fred can't. Must be the grown-up thing to evade the question by referencing the latter part of an interview that added nothing to his argument.The evidence is simply that the accumulation of others' accounts suggests that as many as 10 teams are involved. None of those teams were named, and no evidence was produced by Schefter. Nice Red Herring by Fred.

There's no red herring here. Jones conveniently clipped it, because he's not interested in an honest conversation, but my quote was "there are supposedly ten teams that do this". I then showed the source for my supposition. That's more than enough evidence to back up my actual statement. There's no further burden of proof required. You're welcome to join sides with him on this one if you'd like, but you're factually incorrect to say that I'm evading the question by providing the link. I don't expect much from Jones, but that's not usually your thing.

You said the link was your evidence, and then you throw "supposedly" in there. There's nothing "supposed" about the video tape that they confiscated.

 

[Ghost Rider]

If the Jets come with-in one win of making the playoffs and the Pats go to the Super Bowl. It will hurt this league a lot.Can you imagine the media and fan out cry? And how bad this Super Bowl will be viewed?

that tape they were caught with had nothing to do with the results of last sunday

How do you know that? Did you miss the part yesterday about how the video can be viewed in real time by coaches, meaning they could have easily gotten the signals before the cameraman was nabbed.

I read something about real time on this forum but nothing officail. Last I read it was a tape and it was confiscated in the first quarter, therefore having no impact on the outcome of the game.

That is mostly incorrect, and I say mostly because we will never know what kind of impact their cheating had on the game.

 

[jonessed]

Name the teams and cite the evidence or this is

Here you gohttp://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...p;#entry7332273

I'll help you out.Name the teams and cite the evidence or this is

It's a ten minute video, there's more than two minutes of discussion, and yet the clock shows you responded in two minutes. So I'm pretty sure you didn't watch it. I guess you only watch what you want to watch, just like you only see what you want to see. That's OK. I didn't expect a serious conversation with you anyways. It's nicer when there are mostly grown ups in the thread, but I didn't figure it would last.

I'll give you a third chance because I'm niceName the teams and cite the evidence or this is

If you can't, you can't. It's cool. Just admit it.

It's not in the podcast. I listened to it when it was posted the first time. Maybe you should hear it again.

Fred can't. Must be the grown-up thing to evade the question by referencing the latter part of an interview that added nothing to his argument.The evidence is simply that the accumulation of others' accounts suggests that as many as 10 teams are involved. None of those teams were named, and no evidence was produced by Schefter. Nice Red Herring by Fred.

There's no red herring here. Jones conveniently clipped it, because he's not interested in an honest conversation, but my quote was "there are supposedly ten teams that do this". I then showed the source for my supposition. That's more than enough evidence to back up my actual statement. There's no further burden of proof required. You're welcome to join sides with him on this one if you'd like, but you're factually incorrect to say that I'm evading the question by providing the link. I don't expect much from Jones, but that's not usually your thing.

I didn't clip it. Try reading through it again.

 

[HellToupee]

If the Jets come with-in one win of making the playoffs and the Pats go to the Super Bowl. It will hurt this league a lot.

Can you imagine the media and fan out cry? And how bad this Super Bowl will be viewed?

that tape they were caught with had nothing to do with the results of last sunday

How do you know that? Did you miss the part yesterday about how the video can be viewed in real time by coaches, meaning they could have easily gotten the signals before the cameraman was nabbed.

Knowing that the camera was seized EM would have to be really negligent or incompetent not to go with alternate signals at the half .

Oh, so it is the Jets fault now, eh? Besides, I would think changing signals would take some time. Given how short half time is, I doubt any team would have time to completely change their signals.

If the Raiders can have 4 sets of rotating signals I think the J-E-T-S can have at least 2 ready to go . especially when you factor in EM knew how BB operates

 

[nerangers]

Belichick statement

By Mike Reiss, Globe Staff

Patriots coach Bill Belichick released the following statement tonight:

"I accept full responsibility for the actions that led to tonight's ruling. Once again, I apologize to the Kraft family and every person directly or indirectly associated with the New England Patriots for the embarrassment, distraction and penalty my mistake caused. I also apologize to Patriots fans and would like to thank them for their support during the past few days and throughout my career.

"As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game. We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress.

"Part of my job as head coach is to ensure that our football operations are conducted in compliance of the league rules and all accepted interpretations of them. My interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect.

"With tonight’s resolution, I will not be offering any further comments on this matter. We are moving on with our preparations for Sunday’s game."

 

[David Yudkin]

I've been out and missed all this, but skimming the first however many pages . . .

- For whoever mentioned the Pats appealing and getting the penalty reduced, I do not believe they can appeal it. There is no union for the teams, only the players. The team has no one to take their case to. They are at the whims of the commish.

- As for Wade Wilson, the NFL rules of conduct are applied to all NFL employees, so coaches are treated like players. Wilson would have been suspended 4 games per rule as a player but an extra game was added because coaches are held to a higher standard (I know the last part seems weird given the Pats outcome).

- Belichick is signed at least through next year, although no one knows for how long as there is nothing official that has been released on the subject. But I know he is signed at least through the 2008 season. (Long story on that one, but you can take that to the bank.)

I suspect that this will make what was already a good 2007 Pats team even better. I read and saw interviews with many of their players and they are all fired up that people think they did not win games based on talent and that people are considering them frauds/cheaters. They all seem pumped up to show how good they are and are promising to show the world that it was no fluke that they won. So the Pats again get to play the no respect card.

 

[cobalt_27]

You're welcome to join sides with him on this one if you'd like, but you're factually incorrect to say that I'm evading the question by providing the link. I don't expect much from Jones, but that's not usually your thing.

I don't know Jones's shtick or history. All I know is that you pulled out the "grownups" card, and I went I also know that Pats fans have had sort of a vested interest in normalizing this infraction in an effort to minimize the backlash put on their team. My suspicion is that it's likely true that other teams do this, but there really isn't any substantial evidence other than hearsay to indict them. We don't even know which teams to reference at this point. Regardless, all that matters is the irrefutable evidence that BB cheated to gain a tactical advantage and got caught. He got penalized appropriately, and it'll be nice when everyone can just move on and enjoy the games on Sunday.

 

[CrossEyed]

I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but the worst part about this is that Goodell has opened himself up to this becoming a race issue. Now I'm not suggesting at all that it is, but I can see the argument coming: Black players get harshly treated and suspended. White coach gets no suspension. Count on it.

 

[jonessed]

I've been out and missed all this, but skimming the first however many pages . . .

- For whoever mentioned the Pats appealing and getting the penalty reduced, I do not believe they can appeal it. There is no union for the teams, only the players. The team has no one to take their case to. They are at the whims of the commish.

- As for Wade Wilson, the NFL rules of conduct are applied to all NFL employees, so coaches are treated like players. Wilson would have been suspended 4 games per rule as a player but an extra game was added because coaches are held to a higher standard (I know the last part seems weird given the Pats outcome).

- Belichick is signed at least through next year, although no one knows for how long as there is nothing official that has been released on the subject. But I know he is signed at least through the 2008 season. (Long story on that one, but you can take that to the bank.)

I suspect that this will make what was already a good 2007 Pats team even better. I read and saw interviews with many of their players and they are all fired up that people think they did not win games based on talent and that people are considering them frauds/cheaters. They all seem pumped up to show how good they are and are promising to show the world that it was no fluke that they won. So the Pats again get to play the no respect card.

How do you even post this with a straight face?

 

[HellToupee]

I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but the worst part about this is that Goodell has opened himself up to this becoming a race issue. Now I'm not suggesting at all that it is, but I can see the argument coming: Black players get harshly treated and suspended. White coach gets no suspension. Count on it.

Pacman & Vick were harshly treated?

 

[raor]

I've been out and missed all this, but skimming the first however many pages . . .-edit-I suspect that this will make what was already a good 2007 Pats team even better. I read and saw interviews with many of their players and they are all fired up that people think they did not win games based on talent and that people are considering them frauds/cheaters. They all seem pumped up to show how good they are and are promising to show the world that it was no fluke that they won. So the Pats again get to play the no respect card.

By the same token, the Pats now have the biggest target on them in the history of the league. I imagine San Diego in particular will be pretty fired up for this weeks game as well.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Belichick statementBy Mike Reiss, Globe StaffPatriots coach Bill Belichick released the following statement tonight:"I accept full responsibility for the actions that led to tonight's ruling. Once again, I apologize to the Kraft family and every person directly or indirectly associated with the New England Patriots for the embarrassment, distraction and penalty my mistake caused. I also apologize to Patriots fans and would like to thank them for their support during the past few days and throughout my career."As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game. We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress."Part of my job as head coach is to ensure that our football operations are conducted in compliance of the league rules and all accepted interpretations of them. My interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect."With tonight’s resolution, I will not be offering any further comments on this matter. We are moving on with our preparations for Sunday’s game."

I wonder who wrote that. Oh, and LOL at Belichick still saying that he misinterpreted a rule, rather than just admitting that he cheated. The comparisons to Barry Bonds just get stronger and stronger!

 

[HellToupee]

I've been out and missed all this, but skimming the first however many pages . . .

I suspect that this will make what was already a good 2007 Pats team even better. I read and saw interviews with many of their players and they are all fired up that people think they did not win games based on talent and that people are considering them frauds/cheaters. They all seem pumped up to show how good they are and are promising to show the world that it was no fluke that they won. So the Pats again get to play the no respect card.

How do you even post this with a straight face?

I agree with DY . The Patriots players have been put in a bad situation & they'll use all the finger pointing .

 

[Phlash]

I've been out and missed all this, but skimming the first however many pages . . .- For whoever mentioned the Pats appealing and getting the penalty reduced, I do not believe they can appeal it. There is no union for the teams, only the players. The team has no one to take their case to. They are at the whims of the commish.- As for Wade Wilson, the NFL rules of conduct are applied to all NFL employees, so coaches are treated like players. Wilson would have been suspended 4 games per rule as a player but an extra game was added because coaches are held to a higher standard (I know the last part seems weird given the Pats outcome).- Belichick is signed at least through next year, although no one knows for how long as there is nothing official that has been released on the subject. But I know he is signed at least through the 2008 season. (Long story on that one, but you can take that to the bank.)I suspect that this will make what was already a good 2007 Pats team even better. I read and saw interviews with many of their players and they are all fired up that people think they did not win games based on talent and that people are considering them frauds/cheaters. They all seem pumped up to show how good they are and are promising to show the world that it was no fluke that they won. So the Pats again get to play the no respect card.

It was a calculated decision by BB. He knew that this team could become complacent considering their talent level and was willing to sacrifice his own money and draft picks to motivate them. Now they have something to prove.

 

[cobalt_27]

I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but the worst part about this is that Goodell has opened himself up to this becoming a race issue. Now I'm not suggesting at all that it is, but I can see the argument coming: Black players get harshly treated and suspended. White coach gets no suspension. Count on it.

Sadly, you're probably right. It's always about race. Or, so I'm told, at least.

 

[HellToupee]

Belichick statementBy Mike Reiss, Globe StaffPatriots coach Bill Belichick released the following statement tonight:"I accept full responsibility for the actions that led to tonight's ruling. Once again, I apologize to the Kraft family and every person directly or indirectly associated with the New England Patriots for the embarrassment, distraction and penalty my mistake caused. I also apologize to Patriots fans and would like to thank them for their support during the past few days and throughout my career."As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game. We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress."Part of my job as head coach is to ensure that our football operations are conducted in compliance of the league rules and all accepted interpretations of them. My interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect."With tonight’s resolution, I will not be offering any further comments on this matter. We are moving on with our preparations for Sunday’s game."

I wonder who wrote that. Oh, and LOL at Belichick still saying that he misinterpreted a rule, rather than just admitting that he cheated. The comparisons to Barry Bonds just get stronger and stronger!

what do you want from Belichick , he's a bad guy

 

[tommyGunZ]

But you don't really think the guy in the hoody is paying this out of his pocket do you?

Yeah - I do.And yeah - he is.He might make it back next year, but he's paying it now.

That is illogical. My wife is going to pay our DirecTv bill tomorrow, but rest assured it is MY MONEY. BB loses nothing here.

Sounds like a fantastic marriage you have there buddy.

 

[jonessed]

I've been out and missed all this, but skimming the first however many pages . . .

I suspect that this will make what was already a good 2007 Pats team even better. I read and saw interviews with many of their players and they are all fired up that people think they did not win games based on talent and that people are considering them frauds/cheaters. They all seem pumped up to show how good they are and are promising to show the world that it was no fluke that they won. So the Pats again get to play the no respect card.

How do you even post this with a straight face?

I agree with DY . The Patriots players have been put in a bad situation & they'll use all the finger pointing .

The players are going to get fired up to prove they aren't cheaters after they have already been caught cheating? I guess it's possible. Anything is possible at this point.

 

[nerangers]

I think the NFL should have made BB have to wear a suit all season! loose the hoodie!

 

[cobalt_27]

But you don't really think the guy in the hoody is paying this out of his pocket do you?

Yeah - I do.And yeah - he is.He might make it back next year, but he's paying it now.

That is illogical. My wife is going to pay our DirecTv bill tomorrow, but rest assured it is MY MONEY. BB loses nothing here.

Sounds like a fantastic marriage you have there buddy.

Must not be a big fan of the MOVEMENT.

 

[Phlash]

I think the NFL should have made BB have to wear a suit all season! loose the hoodie!

The hoodie gives him magical coaching powers. There is nothing worse you can do to him other than taking that out of his gameday wardrobe.

 

[Pat Patriot]

I've been out and missed all this, but skimming the first however many pages . . .

- For whoever mentioned the Pats appealing and getting the penalty reduced, I do not believe they can appeal it. There is no union for the teams, only the players. The team has no one to take their case to. They are at the whims of the commish.

- As for Wade Wilson, the NFL rules of conduct are applied to all NFL employees, so coaches are treated like players. Wilson would have been suspended 4 games per rule as a player but an extra game was added because coaches are held to a higher standard (I know the last part seems weird given the Pats outcome).

- Belichick is signed at least through next year, although no one knows for how long as there is nothing official that has been released on the subject. But I know he is signed at least through the 2008 season. (Long story on that one, but you can take that to the bank.)

I suspect that this will make what was already a good 2007 Pats team even better. I read and saw interviews with many of their players and they are all fired up that people think they did not win games based on talent and that people are considering them frauds/cheaters. They all seem pumped up to show how good they are and are promising to show the world that it was no fluke that they won. So the Pats again get to play the no respect card.

How do you even post this with a straight face?

You dont think the Pats players are pissed that their coach thoroughly embarassed them and caused their accomplishments to be put in question? "They think we had to cheat to win, we'll show them!!" That is the attitude that it would seem the Pats players would take.

 

[David Yudkin]

I've been out and missed all this, but skimming the first however many pages . . .

- For whoever mentioned the Pats appealing and getting the penalty reduced, I do not believe they can appeal it. There is no union for the teams, only the players. The team has no one to take their case to. They are at the whims of the commish.

- As for Wade Wilson, the NFL rules of conduct are applied to all NFL employees, so coaches are treated like players. Wilson would have been suspended 4 games per rule as a player but an extra game was added because coaches are held to a higher standard (I know the last part seems weird given the Pats outcome).

- Belichick is signed at least through next year, although no one knows for how long as there is nothing official that has been released on the subject. But I know he is signed at least through the 2008 season. (Long story on that one, but you can take that to the bank.)

I suspect that this will make what was already a good 2007 Pats team even better. I read and saw interviews with many of their players and they are all fired up that people think they did not win games based on talent and that people are considering them frauds/cheaters. They all seem pumped up to show how good they are and are promising to show the world that it was no fluke that they won. So the Pats again get to play the no respect card.

How do you even post this with a straight face?

This is not what I pesonally think. I'm not saying that I think that the Pats get no respect. But I think the net result is that the Pats PLAYERS will think that. It's been all over the news here, not so much these exact words, but the universal theme is that the players have been announcing that they are intent on clearing their names and busting their butts to prove they are the real deal no matter what their coach does.I see interviews with the Pats players all the time. This is one of the few times where they publicly are fired up and emotional, something which is rare and hardly their trademark. I think most of them had no idea what was going on and were generally peeved by all this.

 

[Kiddnets]

The real punishment is not what the pu#%#$ Commish handed down - its that in the Court of public opinion every one of the Pat's SB titles is now tainted! The JEts may only have Joe Willy and SB III - but at least it was an honest win!

 

[HellToupee]

I've been out and missed all this, but skimming the first however many pages . . .

I suspect that this will make what was already a good 2007 Pats team even better. I read and saw interviews with many of their players and they are all fired up that people think they did not win games based on talent and that people are considering them frauds/cheaters. They all seem pumped up to show how good they are and are promising to show the world that it was no fluke that they won. So the Pats again get to play the no respect card.

How do you even post this with a straight face?

I agree with DY . The Patriots players have been put in a bad situation & they'll use all the finger pointing .

The players are going to get fired up to prove they aren't cheaters after they have already been caught cheating? I guess it's possible. Anything is possible at this point.

the players weren't cheating , the coaches were

 

[Ghost Rider]

I've been out and missed all this, but skimming the first however many pages . . .

- For whoever mentioned the Pats appealing and getting the penalty reduced, I do not believe they can appeal it. There is no union for the teams, only the players. The team has no one to take their case to. They are at the whims of the commish.

- As for Wade Wilson, the NFL rules of conduct are applied to all NFL employees, so coaches are treated like players. Wilson would have been suspended 4 games per rule as a player but an extra game was added because coaches are held to a higher standard (I know the last part seems weird given the Pats outcome).

- Belichick is signed at least through next year, although no one knows for how long as there is nothing official that has been released on the subject. But I know he is signed at least through the 2008 season. (Long story on that one, but you can take that to the bank.)

I suspect that this will make what was already a good 2007 Pats team even better. I read and saw interviews with many of their players and they are all fired up that people think they did not win games based on talent and that people are considering them frauds/cheaters. They all seem pumped up to show how good they are and are promising to show the world that it was no fluke that they won. So the Pats again get to play the no respect card.

How do you even post this with a straight face?

You dont think the Pats players are pissed that their coach thoroughly embarassed them and caused their accomplishments to be put in question? "They think we had to cheat to win, we'll show them!!" That is the attitude that it would seem the Pats players would take.

You don't think many of the players on the team, especially those who have been around for years, didn't know something about all of this? And I ask that of you, knowing full well that you have been an open-minded non-homer about this whole topic.

 

[Pictus Cat]

If this stigma messes with Moss's head, this might be an added penalty.

 

[jonessed]

I've been out and missed all this, but skimming the first however many pages . . .

- For whoever mentioned the Pats appealing and getting the penalty reduced, I do not believe they can appeal it. There is no union for the teams, only the players. The team has no one to take their case to. They are at the whims of the commish.

- As for Wade Wilson, the NFL rules of conduct are applied to all NFL employees, so coaches are treated like players. Wilson would have been suspended 4 games per rule as a player but an extra game was added because coaches are held to a higher standard (I know the last part seems weird given the Pats outcome).

- Belichick is signed at least through next year, although no one knows for how long as there is nothing official that has been released on the subject. But I know he is signed at least through the 2008 season. (Long story on that one, but you can take that to the bank.)

I suspect that this will make what was already a good 2007 Pats team even better. I read and saw interviews with many of their players and they are all fired up that people think they did not win games based on talent and that people are considering them frauds/cheaters. They all seem pumped up to show how good they are and are promising to show the world that it was no fluke that they won. So the Pats again get to play the no respect card.

How do you even post this with a straight face?

You dont think the Pats players are pissed that their coach thoroughly embarassed them and caused their accomplishments to be put in question? "They think we had to cheat to win, we'll show them!!" That is the attitude that it would seem the Pats players would take.

But they did cheat. Their accomplishments are in question (by some at least). Winning future games doesn't change the fact that they cheated in past games.Whatever, I suppose they can get fired up about that.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Belichick statement

By Mike Reiss, Globe Staff

Patriots coach Bill Belichick released the following statement tonight:

"I accept full responsibility for the actions that led to tonight's ruling. Once again, I apologize to the Kraft family and every person directly or indirectly associated with the New England Patriots for the embarrassment, distraction and penalty my mistake caused. I also apologize to Patriots fans and would like to thank them for their support during the past few days and throughout my career.

"As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game. We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress.

"Part of my job as head coach is to ensure that our football operations are conducted in compliance of the league rules and all accepted interpretations of them. My interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect.

"With tonight’s resolution, I will not be offering any further comments on this matter. We are moving on with our preparations for Sunday’s game."

I wonder who wrote that. Oh, and LOL at Belichick still saying that he misinterpreted a rule, rather than just admitting that he cheated. The comparisons to Barry Bonds just get stronger and stronger!

The above bolded is what I have been stating all week. That being said, this statement is not good enough. I want to hear this supposed misinterpretation. If Kraft doesnt force him to explain himself, he is just as culpable.

 

[Kiddnets]

I've been out and missed all this, but skimming the first however many pages . . .

I suspect that this will make what was already a good 2007 Pats team even better. I read and saw interviews with many of their players and they are all fired up that people think they did not win games based on talent and that people are considering them frauds/cheaters. They all seem pumped up to show how good they are and are promising to show the world that it was no fluke that they won. So the Pats again get to play the no respect card.

How do you even post this with a straight face?

I agree with DY . The Patriots players have been put in a bad situation & they'll use all the finger pointing .

The players are going to get fired up to prove they aren't cheaters after they have already been caught cheating? I guess it's possible. Anything is possible at this point.

the players weren't cheating , the coaches were

See how great that Pats O is when Brady doesn't know when the blitz is coming!

 

[BeachBums]

"Cheating" is not the Patriots or the Patriot way, no matter how the haters want to spin it and blow it up. The superb level of Partiot play will only continue to flourish and succeed. The Patriots are a"character" team and although I wish this hadn't happened I have no doubt the Pats will continue to be about playing "total" football as a model organization.

Ha. Funny. Isn't this a thread about their punishment for cheating?

 

[Breed]

I'm a Pats fan, so I won't go into redundant homeristic sermons, but one point I that is new that I wanted to bring up...

... this probably increases the chances that BB resigns with the Pats when his contract is up as many teams would fear the PR hit. And the dynasty continues to roll on.

 

[jonessed]

I've been out and missed all this, but skimming the first however many pages . . .

I suspect that this will make what was already a good 2007 Pats team even better. I read and saw interviews with many of their players and they are all fired up that people think they did not win games based on talent and that people are considering them frauds/cheaters. They all seem pumped up to show how good they are and are promising to show the world that it was no fluke that they won. So the Pats again get to play the no respect card.

How do you even post this with a straight face?

I agree with DY . The Patriots players have been put in a bad situation & they'll use all the finger pointing .

The players are going to get fired up to prove they aren't cheaters after they have already been caught cheating? I guess it's possible. Anything is possible at this point.

the players weren't cheating , the coaches were

What does it matter? They benefited. They were taking direction from a coach that was influencing the game through cheating.

 

[Phlash]

I've been out and missed all this, but skimming the first however many pages . . .

I suspect that this will make what was already a good 2007 Pats team even better. I read and saw interviews with many of their players and they are all fired up that people think they did not win games based on talent and that people are considering them frauds/cheaters. They all seem pumped up to show how good they are and are promising to show the world that it was no fluke that they won. So the Pats again get to play the no respect card.

How do you even post this with a straight face?

I agree with DY . The Patriots players have been put in a bad situation & they'll use all the finger pointing .

The players are going to get fired up to prove they aren't cheaters after they have already been caught cheating? I guess it's possible. Anything is possible at this point.

the players weren't cheating , the coaches were

See how great that Pats O is when Brady doesn't know when the blitz is coming!

They'll just have to back to their passing offense in '01 and '02 when they had no WRs and run a lot of slants and short routes. Except that Brady will be able to fire bullets to guys like Moss and Stallworth instead of scrubs like Givens and Patten this time around.

 

[Pat Patriot]

I've been out and missed all this, but skimming the first however many pages . . .

- For whoever mentioned the Pats appealing and getting the penalty reduced, I do not believe they can appeal it. There is no union for the teams, only the players. The team has no one to take their case to. They are at the whims of the commish.

- As for Wade Wilson, the NFL rules of conduct are applied to all NFL employees, so coaches are treated like players. Wilson would have been suspended 4 games per rule as a player but an extra game was added because coaches are held to a higher standard (I know the last part seems weird given the Pats outcome).

- Belichick is signed at least through next year, although no one knows for how long as there is nothing official that has been released on the subject. But I know he is signed at least through the 2008 season. (Long story on that one, but you can take that to the bank.)

I suspect that this will make what was already a good 2007 Pats team even better. I read and saw interviews with many of their players and they are all fired up that people think they did not win games based on talent and that people are considering them frauds/cheaters. They all seem pumped up to show how good they are and are promising to show the world that it was no fluke that they won. So the Pats again get to play the no respect card.

How do you even post this with a straight face?

You dont think the Pats players are pissed that their coach thoroughly embarassed them and caused their accomplishments to be put in question? "They think we had to cheat to win, we'll show them!!" That is the attitude that it would seem the Pats players would take.

You don't think many of the players on the team, especially those who have been around for years, didn't know something about all of this? And I ask that of you, knowing full well that you have been an open-minded non-homer about this whole topic.

Really? You think I am a non-homer? EvilGrin once voted me the biggest homer on the board.I live in Philly now but grew up in Boston. I've been taking #### for 2 days from co-workers, housewives and other friends about how the Eagles can finally plan their parade because they were the real winners of SB 39.

I talked to my best friend back in Boston tonight and told him that I wanted to hear from Belichek, Kraft and Brady. Most of the interviews I have been seeing has been the defensive players. I do believe that they are unaware of what is happening. I honestly dont know what the offensive players work.

I used to scout when I was coaching High School ball and we would be able to decipher some of the other teams defensive signals while scouting them. When we brought the data back to the team, nobody asked whether we videotaped the game we were scouting or just took notes. I know HS is light years away from the NFL but I dont know what Brady knew.

 

[switz]

I'm a Pats fan, so I won't go into redundant homeristic sermons, but one point I that is new that I wanted to bring up...

... this probably increases the chances that BB resigns with from the Pats when his contract is up as many teams they would fear the PR hit. And the dynasty cheating team continues to roll on.

fixed

 

[Pat Patriot]

I've been out and missed all this, but skimming the first however many pages . . .

- For whoever mentioned the Pats appealing and getting the penalty reduced, I do not believe they can appeal it. There is no union for the teams, only the players. The team has no one to take their case to. They are at the whims of the commish.

- As for Wade Wilson, the NFL rules of conduct are applied to all NFL employees, so coaches are treated like players. Wilson would have been suspended 4 games per rule as a player but an extra game was added because coaches are held to a higher standard (I know the last part seems weird given the Pats outcome).

- Belichick is signed at least through next year, although no one knows for how long as there is nothing official that has been released on the subject. But I know he is signed at least through the 2008 season. (Long story on that one, but you can take that to the bank.)

I suspect that this will make what was already a good 2007 Pats team even better. I read and saw interviews with many of their players and they are all fired up that people think they did not win games based on talent and that people are considering them frauds/cheaters. They all seem pumped up to show how good they are and are promising to show the world that it was no fluke that they won. So the Pats again get to play the no respect card.

How do you even post this with a straight face?

You dont think the Pats players are pissed that their coach thoroughly embarassed them and caused their accomplishments to be put in question? "They think we had to cheat to win, we'll show them!!" That is the attitude that it would seem the Pats players would take.

But they did cheat. Their accomplishments are in question (by some at least). Winning future games doesn't change the fact that they cheated in past games.Whatever, I suppose they can get fired up about that.

I dont know why I am responding because its wasted on you but you are equating what Bill Belichek did/authorized with EVERY player on the Patriots cheating?

 

[BeachBums]

"I specifically considered whether to impose a suspension on Coach Belichick," Goodell also wrote. "I have determined not to do so, largely because I believe that the discipline I am imposing of a maximum fine and forfeiture of a first-round draft choice, or multiple draft choices, is in fact more significant and long-lasting, and therefore more effective, than a suspension."

It's a political world people. The non-suspension is a product of Goodell's value calculation on the brand tarnishment that would have occurred associated with the suspension of an NFL coach (despite his "official explanation"). So he basically went with the max constitutional penalty and severe on the picks. As predicted, more severe than most Pats fans would like, and not nearly severe enough for the haters.There will be some gloating and smack talk that bubbles up this weekend if the Bolts win, but the real thing to watch is what kind of record the Patriots achieve this year after week 1 without cameras. If they go 5-11, I'll feel like a kid who's been told there is no Santa. If they go 14-2 I will bump every post I can find about the team that can't win without cheating.

Not everyone that thinks it's a cop out is a hater. That's one of the problems with this board, if you're for something you'r a homer or player owner. If you're against something you're a hater, division rival, or owner of a different player. It's not that simple. I don't hate the Pats, nor Brady or Belicheat. I love the NFL and I believe, unlike many, that the info from the cameraman was instantly processed and useful and provided an unfair advantage in many of their games. The tech is there to do that. Less than a million bucks and a draft pick of which you have two (and only kept 2 of your draft class this year) is not really a deterrent for the rewards of a SB win, much less 3. What did that Glazer's say about the $8mil they paid the Raiders for Gruden after their SB win. Worth Every Penny.

I am not a hater, I am not a Pats fan, the punishment was weak.

I already wanted the Chargers to crush them this weekend (Chargers beat themselves, no need to even accuse the Pats for last year), but now I want them to really crush the Pats. But more than that, I want the Bolts to do it with the class that has been wrongly attributed to the Pats over the last few years. With their on field display last year, their own banned substance scandals, VideoGate, and clearly some other shenanigans (particularly RF shananigans which weren't addressed) the Pats are no longer the righteous Golden Team. So Stay Classy San Diego, beat the Pats and DON"T BE #######S ABOUT IT!!!!

 

[Ghost Rider]

Really? You think I am a non-homer? EvilGrin once voted me the biggest homer on the board.I live in Philly now but grew up in Boston. I've been taking #### for 2 days from co-workers, housewives and other friends about how the Eagles can finally plan their parade because they were the real winners of SB 39.I talked to my best friend back in Boston tonight and told him that I wanted to hear from Belichek, Kraft and Brady. Most of the interviews I have been seeing has been the defensive players. I do believe that they are unaware of what is happening. I honestly dont know what the offensive players work.I used to scout when I was coaching High School ball and we would be able to decipher some of the other teams defensive signals while scouting them. When we brought the data back to the team, nobody asked whether we videotaped the game we were scouting or just took notes. I know HS is light years away from the NFL but I dont know what Brady knew.

I said non-homer, because unlike some Patriots fans (not all), you have not dedicated the bulk of your posting on this topic to silly cop-outs and lame excuses like "every team does it," and such. That is why I said that.

 

[Sheriff66]

Belicheat should have got 8-16 games, what a B.S. ruling....Goodell is chicken s###

 

[bostonfred]

You're welcome to join sides with him on this one if you'd like, but you're factually incorrect to say that I'm evading the question by providing the link. I don't expect much from Jones, but that's not usually your thing.

I don't know Jones's shtick or history. All I know is that you pulled out the "grownups" card, and I went I also know that Pats fans have had sort of a vested interest in normalizing this infraction in an effort to minimize the backlash put on their team. My suspicion is that it's likely true that other teams do this, but there really isn't any substantial evidence other than hearsay to indict them. We don't even know which teams to reference at this point. Regardless, all that matters is the irrefutable evidence that BB cheated to gain a tactical advantage and got caught. He got penalized appropriately, and it'll be nice when everyone can just move on and enjoy the games on Sunday.

He's pretty excitable about this. There's a couple of them. No big deal. I agree that there's a vested interest for Pats fans in normalizing this. And for people who dislike the Pats, there's a vested interest in casting doubt over whether the Patriots did things before the Jets game. In both cases, there's nothing more than hearsay. It's perfectly relevant to mention that, if we're going to lend credence to the hearsay on either side, we should lend credence to it on both. Of course, there's been substantially more news recently about allegations against the Pats doing this. But to be fair, it's hard to know whether that's because the Pats did this more often, or because other teams aren't breaking this supposed code of silence that was referenced by the Packers. The Pats supposedly videotaped signals on more than one occasion. There are ten teams that supposedly did this in the past. That's not really debatable. What's debatable is whether those ten supposed teams actually did it, and whether the Pats actually videotaped defensive playcalls in the past. And while I won't disagree that there's more evidence for the latter, there's been substantial discussion by players and analysts about the former as well. I don't think this is a contentious statement. As for what Jones clipped, it was my sentence containing "supposedly". He clipped what I said, then demanded a link to prove what I said. That's not really a tactic I feel like engaging him on, so I'm done there.

 

[switz]

They'll just have to back to their passing offense in '01 and '02 when they had no WRs and run a lot of slants and short routes. Except that Brady will be able to fire bullets to guys like Moss and Stallworth instead of scrubs like Givens and Patten this time around.

That'll be a little hard to do when Brady won't know what defense he's playing against and who will be open.

 

[HellToupee]

I've been out and missed all this, but skimming the first however many pages . . .

- For whoever mentioned the Pats appealing and getting the penalty reduced, I do not believe they can appeal it. There is no union for the teams, only the players. The team has no one to take their case to. They are at the whims of the commish.

- As for Wade Wilson, the NFL rules of conduct are applied to all NFL employees, so coaches are treated like players. Wilson would have been suspended 4 games per rule as a player but an extra game was added because coaches are held to a higher standard (I know the last part seems weird given the Pats outcome).

- Belichick is signed at least through next year, although no one knows for how long as there is nothing official that has been released on the subject. But I know he is signed at least through the 2008 season. (Long story on that one, but you can take that to the bank.)

I suspect that this will make what was already a good 2007 Pats team even better. I read and saw interviews with many of their players and they are all fired up that people think they did not win games based on talent and that people are considering them frauds/cheaters. They all seem pumped up to show how good they are and are promising to show the world that it was no fluke that they won. So the Pats again get to play the no respect card.

How do you even post this with a straight face?

You dont think the Pats players are pissed that their coach thoroughly embarassed them and caused their accomplishments to be put in question? "They think we had to cheat to win, we'll show them!!" That is the attitude that it would seem the Pats players would take.

You don't think many of the players on the team, especially those who have been around for years, didn't know something about all of this? And I ask that of you, knowing full well that you have been an open-minded non-homer about this whole topic.

Really? You think I am a non-homer? EvilGrin once voted me the biggest homer on the board.I live in Philly now but grew up in Boston. I've been taking #### for 2 days from co-workers, housewives and other friends about how the Eagles can finally plan their parade because they were the real winners of SB 39.

I talked to my best friend back in Boston tonight and told him that I wanted to hear from Belichek, Kraft and Brady. Most of the interviews I have been seeing has been the defensive players. I do believe that they are unaware of what is happening. I honestly dont know what the offensive players work.

I used to scout when I was coaching High School ball and we would be able to decipher some of the other teams defensive signals while scouting them. When we brought the data back to the team, nobody asked whether we videotaped the game we were scouting or just took notes. I know HS is light years away from the NFL but I dont know what Brady knew.

I don't think players could be trusted to know except Brady.