Pats will franchise Cassel (1 Viewer)

[Boston]

This news should come as no surprise. There's no way the Pats are letting Cassel walk without getting something back...and there's no way they're letting him go to a team like the Jets where he can come back to haunt them. Basically one of two scenarios will take place and they both hinge on Brady's health. If Brady is indeed a risk for 2009 than Cassel will remain a Patriot. He's proven that he can win and the Pats were very comfortable with him by the end of the year. With the Patriots 2009 schedule looking very tough they can't risk breaking in another QB even if it strains their salary cap. If Brady's healthy than the Pats will deal him to a team like Tampa or Chicago for picks and get a nice return on a guy they took a seventh round flyer on four years ago. The fact that Brady's health is in question makes it much easier to franchise him as it appears to be a very legitimate concern.The other aspect with this is what the Pats do with Cassel will be the best indicator of what's really going on with Brady. The minute I see Cassel dealt will be the moment I feel Brady's fine. Yet, if Cassel doesn't get traded prior to the draft than I think Brady's health/return for 2009 will be cloudy.

Are you convinced there will be a market for Cassel? If so, at what price do you think he's worth?

I'm 100% convinced there will be a market. He's only 26, he's big, athletic, smart, can deal with the media, has shown leadership qualities, is well liked by his teammates and the fact he has been in an organization like the Pats for four years are all positives. There's not a doubt in my mind that there will be a very healthy market for him. My guess is he ends up in the NFC and IMO there's no shortage of potential suitors. San Fran, Detroit, Chicago, Minny and Tampa (my guess where he ends up) all will be sniffing around the QB position. I think Carolina could be as well depending on how Jake performs in the playoffs. As to what the Pats will get in return it will depend on how many teams really want him but I think he'll bring back at least a #1.It's really funny how this story has unfolded. Four months ago if Cassel had been cut by the Pats no one would have blinked an eye. He looked awful (and I'm being kind) in preseason and there were no signs that this kid could handle being a legit NFL QB. After watching him develop this season I can definetly say he has the potential to be a quality NFL QB for years to come. If he ends up in a blackhole like Detroit it may not pan out too well but put him on a team like Tampa with Gruden and I see no reason as to why he can't build off of this season and continue being a very effective NFL QB. Thie kid has legit talent (and now a full year's of experience) and I definetly see him starting next year whether it's with the Pats or someone else.

 

[Phlash]

Wow, that sounds just like the Rohan Davey speil a couple years back. :IBTL:

I think applying 14 million fanchise tag actually hurts Cassell and his trade value a bit.

Will he forego the 14 million for a single year and accept a 4 year 20 million dollar deal in a trade? Think he might be best suited to signing the franchise offer the minute its put on the table. He doesnt even have to make it out the preseason to get paid in full. And any team that gives up 30mill and a pick for Cassell gets what it deserves.

They'll get and deserve a Pro-Bowl quarterback. I'd be ecstatic if Cassel was coming to my team.

 

[TitusIII]

Wow, that sounds just like the Rohan Davey speil a couple years back. :IBTL:

I think applying 14 million fanchise tag actually hurts Cassell and his trade value a bit.

Will he forego the 14 million for a single year and accept a 4 year 20 million dollar deal in a trade? Think he might be best suited to signing the franchise offer the minute its put on the table. He doesnt even have to make it out the preseason to get paid in full. And any team that gives up 30mill and a pick for Cassell gets what it deserves.

They'll get and deserve a Pro-Bowl quarterback. I'd be ecstatic if Cassel was coming to my team.

A man can't control his circumstances, and Cassel lucked into the perfect situation. I'd be sad if the Bears toss a bunch of cash at this Randy Moss/system QB...

 

[Phlash]

Wow, that sounds just like the Rohan Davey speil a couple years back. :IBTL:

I think applying 14 million fanchise tag actually hurts Cassell and his trade value a bit.

Will he forego the 14 million for a single year and accept a 4 year 20 million dollar deal in a trade? Think he might be best suited to signing the franchise offer the minute its put on the table. He doesnt even have to make it out the preseason to get paid in full. And any team that gives up 30mill and a pick for Cassell gets what it deserves.

They'll get and deserve a Pro-Bowl quarterback. I'd be ecstatic if Cassel was coming to my team.

A man can't control his circumstances, and Cassel lucked into the perfect situation. I'd be sad if the Bears toss a bunch of cash at this Randy Moss/system QB...

He lead the leading offense in the AFC, threw for 3600 yards and 20+ TDs, has been coached up by the best offensive coordinator in the NFL, has no wear and tear whatsoever on him, and lead the Patriots to an 11-5 record by churning out 40+ point performances and 400+ yard games to put the Patriots over the edge. He's an athletic beast, he's no system QB.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Scott Mitchell

 

[Phlash]

Scott Mitchell

Lions players never count.

 

[Phlash]

Wow, that sounds just like the Rohan Davey speil a couple years back.

I think applying 14 million fanchise tag actually hurts Cassell and his trade value a bit.

Will he forego the 14 million for a single year and accept a 4 year 20 million dollar deal in a trade? Think he might be best suited to signing the franchise offer the minute its put on the table. He doesnt even have to make it out the preseason to get paid in full. And any team that gives up 30mill and a pick for Cassell gets what it deserves.

They'll get and deserve a Pro-Bowl quarterback. I'd be ecstatic if Cassel was coming to my team.

:IBTL: He's already on your team.

And I hope they franchise him

 

[massraider]

Wow, that sounds just like the Rohan Davey speil a couple years back. I think applying 14 million fanchise tag actually hurts Cassell and his trade value a bit.Will he forego the 14 million for a single year and accept a 4 year 20 million dollar deal in a trade? Think he might be best suited to signing the franchise offer the minute its put on the table. He doesnt even have to make it out the preseason to get paid in full. And any team that gives up 30mill and a pick for Cassell gets what it deserves.

First of all. on the Rohan line. I remember that phenom.Second, Cassel should sign that deal the moment he they tag him. Whatever deal he gets as a free agent, he can get after a year at 14 mill. Good business, especially if he sits safely on the sideline in New England next season.He also gets to pick which team he goes to, because he doesn't have to sign a deal with any team he doesn't like.

 

[twitch]

Atlanta just threw a bunch of money at a perennial backup playing on a 1-year contract in a great system behind a HOF player. Brought in by a former NE personnel guy incidentally that knew a little something about Cassel. How's Michael Turner's team done this season? There ya go.

Its amazing that people even remember Scott Mitchell. Because the guy didnt really do much in the way of providing fond memories for anyone. But then again neither did Ryan Leaf or Rob Johnson, and theyre talked about every year. Cassel has all the intangibles and tangibles. And he's played for 2 incredible organizations and experienced a ton of winning in the last 8 years. If Im a team in need of a young QB, first and foremost, Im looking for a winner. That'll put Matt Cassel on the top of my list.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Wow, that sounds just like the Rohan Davey speil a couple years back.

I think applying 14 million fanchise tag actually hurts Cassell and his trade value a bit.

Will he forego the 14 million for a single year and accept a 4 year 20 million dollar deal in a trade? Think he might be best suited to signing the franchise offer the minute its put on the table. He doesnt even have to make it out the preseason to get paid in full. And any team that gives up 30mill and a pick for Cassell gets what it deserves.

They'll get and deserve a Pro-Bowl quarterback. I'd be ecstatic if Cassel was coming to my team.

A man can't control his circumstances, and Cassel lucked into the perfect situation. I'd be sad if the Bears toss a bunch of cash at this Randy Moss/system QB...

The question is do the combination of (a) Cassel's USC pedigree and (b) Cassels growth and performance given NE's system make a reasonable case for Cassel as being better than Orton, Grossman, etc.Please also factor in that Cassel has shown good to very good mobility for a quarterback which would enhance his value to Chicago which has difficulty protecting the quarterback.

 

[Jason Wood]

Personally, were I a Jets or Bears or [any team that needs a QB] fan, I would hope Cassel gets franchised. The idea that some GM would throw Cassel huge dollars as their new franchise guy is a frightening proposition. Sure, he played well for the Pats this year. Sure, there are teams that don't need a Pro Bowl thrower to dramatically improve their QB situation.

That said, how can anyone not worry about what Cassel would be outside of the Pats organization? Football is so much about the sum of the parts, and the Patriots as an organization have been so fantastic, there's a HUGE chance that Cassel could be a total flop elsewhere.

Small sample size to evaluate

Playing in one of the, if not the, best organizations

Randy Moss + Wes Welker

Bill Belichick + Josh McDaniels

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Personally, were I a Jets or Bears or [any team that needs a QB] fan, I would hope Cassel gets franchised. The idea that some GM would throw Cassel huge dollars as their new franchise guy is a frightening proposition. Sure, he played well for the Pats this year. Sure, there are teams that don't need a Pro Bowl thrower to dramatically improve their QB situation.That said, how can anyone not worry about what Cassel would be outside of the Pats organization? Football is so much about the sum of the parts, and the Patriots as an organization have been so fantastic, there's a HUGE chance that Cassel could be a total flop elsewhere. Small sample size to evaluatePlaying in one of the, if not the, best organizationsRandy Moss + Wes WelkerBill Belichick + Josh McDaniels

Look at it this way: do you give Cassel any more VALUE to a new team than, say, a first round QB pick? Now I don't know how much Matt Ryan's contract is, but I do believe that landing a Matt Ryan is a very RARE occurrence. This drive's Cassel's value up, as a someone who has played effectively, irrespective of the strength of the system he happens to play in.

 

[Jason Wood]

Personally, were I a Jets or Bears or [any team that needs a QB] fan, I would hope Cassel gets franchised. The idea that some GM would throw Cassel huge dollars as their new franchise guy is a frightening proposition. Sure, he played well for the Pats this year. Sure, there are teams that don't need a Pro Bowl thrower to dramatically improve their QB situation.That said, how can anyone not worry about what Cassel would be outside of the Pats organization? Football is so much about the sum of the parts, and the Patriots as an organization have been so fantastic, there's a HUGE chance that Cassel could be a total flop elsewhere. Small sample size to evaluatePlaying in one of the, if not the, best organizationsRandy Moss + Wes WelkerBill Belichick + Josh McDaniels

Look at it this way: do you give Cassel any more VALUE to a new team than, say, a first round QB pick? Now I don't know how much Matt Ryan's contract is, but I do believe that landing a Matt Ryan is a very RARE occurrence. This drive's Cassel's value up, as a someone who has played effectively, irrespective of the strength of the system he happens to play in.

More value? Of course. We've seen him execute an NFL offense at a high level. But the question is, how much more?

 

[scott72]

Wow, that sounds just like the Rohan Davey speil a couple years back.

I think applying 14 million fanchise tag actually hurts Cassell and his trade value a bit.

Will he forego the 14 million for a single year and accept a 4 year 20 million dollar deal in a trade? Think he might be best suited to signing the franchise offer the minute its put on the table. He doesnt even have to make it out the preseason to get paid in full. And any team that gives up 30mill and a pick for Cassell gets what it deserves.

They'll get and deserve a Pro-Bowl quarterback. I'd be ecstatic if Cassel was coming to my team.

It's been one year guys. Let's not get in too big of a rush to coin him the next Joe Montana.

 

[scott72]

Personally, were I a Jets or Bears or [any team that needs a QB] fan, I would hope Cassel gets franchised. The idea that some GM would throw Cassel huge dollars as their new franchise guy is a frightening proposition. Sure, he played well for the Pats this year. Sure, there are teams that don't need a Pro Bowl thrower to dramatically improve their QB situation.That said, how can anyone not worry about what Cassel would be outside of the Pats organization? Football is so much about the sum of the parts, and the Patriots as an organization have been so fantastic, there's a HUGE chance that Cassel could be a total flop elsewhere. Small sample size to evaluatePlaying in one of the, if not the, best organizationsRandy Moss + Wes WelkerBill Belichick + Josh McDaniels

We need to see more. Tossing around millions and millions for a guy that produced for one season is foolish imo.

 

[scott72]

Personally, were I a Jets or Bears or [any team that needs a QB] fan, I would hope Cassel gets franchised. The idea that some GM would throw Cassel huge dollars as their new franchise guy is a frightening proposition. Sure, he played well for the Pats this year. Sure, there are teams that don't need a Pro Bowl thrower to dramatically improve their QB situation.That said, how can anyone not worry about what Cassel would be outside of the Pats organization? Football is so much about the sum of the parts, and the Patriots as an organization have been so fantastic, there's a HUGE chance that Cassel could be a total flop elsewhere. Small sample size to evaluatePlaying in one of the, if not the, best organizationsRandy Moss + Wes WelkerBill Belichick + Josh McDaniels

Look at it this way: do you give Cassel any more VALUE to a new team than, say, a first round QB pick? Now I don't know how much Matt Ryan's contract is, but I do believe that landing a Matt Ryan is a very RARE occurrence. This drive's Cassel's value up, as a someone who has played effectively, irrespective of the strength of the system he happens to play in.

Of course he has more value then someone coming out of college, but 10 million or more? I don't think so.

 

[Buckna]

If someone does trade for Cassel, my guess would be the team would try to sign him to a deal structured somewhat like the deal Matt Schaub received. Schaub had more hype as a backup but a lot less game experience than Cassel now has. Both QB's have/had legit question marks as to whether they would succeed on another team.

Schaub signed a contract for 6 years, $48 million. It sounds like a lot of money, but only $7M was guaranteed. $20M was projected over the life of the first 3 years at which point the Texans can pay an option bonus of $10M to trigger the final 3 seasons. Essentially, if Schaub flopped or underperformed in the first 3 seasons, the Texans could either cut him loose or try to restructure. If Schaub succeeds, the Texans pay the bonus and both sides win.

~~~~~~

Of course, the main difference here is that Schaub was not franchised, he was on a one year RFA tender which paid him peanuts. If Cassel is franchised, it may be a lot better off for him (financially) to play with the Pat's and collect $15M guaranteed (possibly while sitting on the bench for a portion of the season) and then be a FA next year.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Am I crazy for thinking that Brady's injury status might actually have very little to do with Cassel getting franchised? I think a lot of people are calling this a Brady insurance plan, but is that really possible? Yes, I'm 100% sure that the Pats will have no trouble fitting Cassel in under the cap with the franchise tag, but it will absolutely cripple them to do anything else in free agency to the point that they will be forced to trade him as soon possible in order to free that money up again. I also can't imagine teams in need of a franchise QB dragging their feet through the summer to see if Brady's health improves to the point that Cassel becomes available. As far as I can see, the only way this plays out is with Cassel getting tagged and dealt quickly with the Pats still being left in limbo regarding Brady's health and likely being forced to use some money on a veteran qb.

 

[greenline]

Am I crazy for thinking that Brady's injury status might actually have very little to do with Cassel getting franchised? I think a lot of people are calling this a Brady insurance plan, but is that really possible? Yes, I'm 100% sure that the Pats will have no trouble fitting Cassel in under the cap with the franchise tag, but it will absolutely cripple them to do anything else in free agency to the point that they will be forced to trade him as soon possible in order to free that money up again. I also can't imagine teams in need of a franchise QB dragging their feet through the summer to see if Brady's health improves to the point that Cassel becomes available. As far as I can see, the only way this plays out is with Cassel getting tagged and dealt quickly with the Pats still being left in limbo regarding Brady's health and likely being forced to use some money on a veteran qb.

If they were to trade Cassel, which I firmly believe they will, I doubt they bring in a veteran QB. They would either be expecting Tom Brady back by 2009 or they will hand the reigns over to either Matt Gutierrez or Kevin O'Connell. My opinion is that this franchise tag was discussed long ago with Matt Cassel and the Patriots will get value for him while trading him to a team where Cassel can have success.

 

[ROCKET]

This news should come as no surprise. There's no way the Pats are letting Cassel walk without getting something back...and there's no way they're letting him go to a team like the Jets where he can come back to haunt them. Basically one of two scenarios will take place and they both hinge on Brady's health. If Brady is indeed a risk for 2009 than Cassel will remain a Patriot. He's proven that he can win and the Pats were very comfortable with him by the end of the year. With the Patriots 2009 schedule looking very tough they can't risk breaking in another QB even if it strains their salary cap. If Brady's healthy than the Pats will deal him to a team like Tampa or Chicago for picks and get a nice return on a guy they took a seventh round flyer on four years ago. The fact that Brady's health is in question makes it much easier to franchise him as it appears to be a very legitimate concern.The other aspect with this is what the Pats do with Cassel will be the best indicator of what's really going on with Brady. The minute I see Cassel dealt will be the moment I feel Brady's fine. Yet, if Cassel doesn't get traded prior to the draft than I think Brady's health/return for 2009 will be cloudy.

Are you convinced there will be a market for Cassel? If so, at what price do you think he's worth?

There is no ? that there is a market for starting qb's in the league as history has shown time and time again. I don't think anyone can refute the fact that Cassell is at worst a top 20 -25 NFL QB. So that leaves at least a half dozen teams who would be interested in his services. Out of those teams inevitably 3/4 will draft their future QB in April and go that route. Of the remaining 3/4 teams left who will they choose at QB to step in and start? Out of the free agent pool which QB has more upside than Cassell? No one. There will be a few suitors for him and the Pats will reap the rewards of having a commodity that many teams want. The #'s alone make this scenario inevitable. The only ? is the possibility of Brady not being ready and the Pats retaining Cassell. The Pats will most likely be looking for a late/future first along with probably another couple of 3rd/4th rounders for him. Jared Allen with all his personal issues got the Chiefs comparable compensation last year. Cassell is worth every bit as much as Allen IMO. If history is any indication the Pats will more than likely get the same if not more for Cassell.

 

[Jason Wood]

This news should come as no surprise. There's no way the Pats are letting Cassel walk without getting something back...and there's no way they're letting him go to a team like the Jets where he can come back to haunt them. Basically one of two scenarios will take place and they both hinge on Brady's health. If Brady is indeed a risk for 2009 than Cassel will remain a Patriot. He's proven that he can win and the Pats were very comfortable with him by the end of the year. With the Patriots 2009 schedule looking very tough they can't risk breaking in another QB even if it strains their salary cap. If Brady's healthy than the Pats will deal him to a team like Tampa or Chicago for picks and get a nice return on a guy they took a seventh round flyer on four years ago. The fact that Brady's health is in question makes it much easier to franchise him as it appears to be a very legitimate concern.

The other aspect with this is what the Pats do with Cassel will be the best indicator of what's really going on with Brady. The minute I see Cassel dealt will be the moment I feel Brady's fine. Yet, if Cassel doesn't get traded prior to the draft than I think Brady's health/return for 2009 will be cloudy.

Are you convinced there will be a market for Cassel? If so, at what price do you think he's worth?

There is no ? that there is a market for starting qb's in the league as history has shown time and time again. I don't think anyone can refute the fact that Cassell is at worst a top 20 -25 NFL QB. So that leaves at least a half dozen teams who would be interested in his services. Out of those teams inevitably 3/4 will draft their future QB in April and go that route. Of the remaining 3/4 teams left who will they choose at QB to step in and start? Out of the free agent pool which QB has more upside than Cassell? No one.There will be a few suitors for him and the Pats will reap the rewards of having a commodity that many teams want. The #'s alone make this scenario inevitable. The only ? is the possibility of Brady not being ready and the Pats retaining Cassell. The Pats will most likely be looking for a late/future first along with probably another couple of 3rd/4th rounders for him. Jared Allen with all his personal issues got the Chiefs comparable compensation last year. Cassell is worth every bit as much as Allen IMO. If history is any indication the Pats will more than likely get the same if not more for Cassell.

Jared Allen was the best defensive end of his generation at the time of that move. Unless you think being a "Top 20-25 QB" equates to being, at worst, one of the top 3 defensive ends [and in many eyes, the #1] on the market, I respectfully disagree that their values are close to equivalent.

 

[Phlash]

Trading a first round pick for Cassel is a much wiser move than spending that first round pick on a quarterback in the draft. Not only will Cassel be cheaper, he's proven that he's a winner at this level, going 11-5 and leading the #1 offense in the AFC, his contract will undoubtedly be easier to swallow than a top 10 draft pick contract, and at the age of 26 with no previous wear and tear (and no concern of injury) he easily has 10 years in him. A team like the Lions, Chiefs, 49ers, etc. should be lining up to trade for this guy.

 

[JohnnyU]

If Manning ever went down (God forbid), I bet Jim Sorgi would do well enough to garner a 1st rd pick, lol.

 

[JAK Straw]

If a player signs a contract which includes a signing bonus, and is then traded; the cap impact on the team losing the player is exactly the same as if he was cut. That is, all of the signing bonus is accelerated into the current season. The team acquiring the player has zero impact from his signing bonus.

Teams can remove the franchise tag from a player...but are they stuck with the designation once the player signs the tender? If so then I agree with previous posters that Cassel's smart move is to sign it once offered.

The smart move from teams interested in getting Cassel, on the other hand, is to wait. Let the Pats pay him the franchise price and have their FAs moves contstricted...after a while the (draft pick) price will go down considerably. While Cassel may be worth a pick and/or decent contract, they have leverage vs. the Pats here and should not just throw it away. Think of the likely media response if the Pats sign Cassel to the tender, and then Brady starts practicing - why is Belichick paying the backup so much when we need to spend FA money on the defense? etc.

 

[Donnybrook]

Trading a first round pick for Cassel is a much wiser move than spending that first round pick on a quarterback in the draft. Not only will Cassel be cheaper, he's proven that he's a winner at this level, going 11-5 and leading the #1 offense in the AFC, his contract will undoubtedly be easier to swallow than a top 10 draft pick contract, and at the age of 26 with no previous wear and tear (and no concern of injury) he easily has 10 years in him. A team like the Lions, Chiefs, 49ers, etc. should be lining up to trade for this guy.

Would it have been wise to trade a first for Derek Anderson last year? After all he lead the Browns to 10-6 record in 2007 and was selected to the pro-bowl. I would not touch Cassel at that price.

 

[Buckna]

Detroit trades the #20 they got from Dallas for Cassel? That leaves them free to use the #1 on either Andre Smith or Michael Oher.

Although If I was in their shoes, I doubt I would be willing to give up anything more than the the 1st pick in the 2nd round. Use the #1 overall on an OT and then the #20 on the best defensive player available. Another option would be use the #1 on Orakpo or Curry and then use the #20 on the best remaining OT. Should be a deep year at that position.

~~~~~~~

Still seems like a better idea money wise for Cassel to just sign the Franchise tender, refuse any trades and go be a FA next year. Any agent worth their salt is going to demand upfront money no less than the Franchise tender in any trade negotiations.

 

[greenline]

Detroit trades the #20 they got from Dallas for Cassel? That leaves them free to use the #1 on either Andre Smith or Michael Oher.Although If I was in their shoes, I doubt I would be willing to give up anything more than the the 1st pick in the 2nd round. Use the #1 overall on an OT and then the #20 on the best defensive player available. Another option would be use the #1 on Orakpo or Curry and then use the #20 on the best remaining OT. Should be a deep year at that position.~~~~~~~Still seems like a better idea money wise for Cassel to just sign the Franchise tender, refuse any trades and go be a FA next year. Any agent worth their salt is going to demand upfront money no less than the Franchise tender in any trade negotiations.

I really don't think this will be a game of hardball. He's either staying and playing for 2009 because Brady will not be ready or he will be dealt amicably.

 

[Donnybrook]

If you put Tyler Thigpen on the Patriots and put Cassel on the Chiefs, do you think that their repective W-L record would change significantly? I don't.

Cassel is soo over-rated.

 

[GregR_2]

What are the rules on trading a player that you franchise? Do you lose the franchise tag for the next year, do you have to get two 1st rounders back, or something else? Memory's going on me a bit today.

They don't have to get two first round picks - that's just the cost for another team to sign a franchise player without the original team's permission (aka without the original team wanting to trade the player). I don't think a lot of franchise players end up actually fetching two first round picks (was it Joey Galloway that did once?). Basically Cassel can go out, negotiate contracts with suitors, and then that team tries to work out a trade with the Patriots, and the Patriots can and most likely will agree to trade him for less than two first round picks.You don't lose your franchise tag for next year, as far as I know.Technically, I don't think you're allowed to franchise a player just to trade him. There's some kind of clause in the CBA that says these tags are only for when you intend to employ the tagged player...but it happens a lot anyway. Plus, there's definitely a chance the Patriots do end up employing Cassel for '09.

you can lose it, don't recall how though.You can also only franchise a player X number of times.When teams trade a player they often remove the franchise tag, negotiate a contract(in the receiving team's interests), and then trade him. It's a bit bush league to skirt the rule you mentioned above but if everyone's doing it....

Here's some clarification. You don't actually lose it, it just isn't available for use.You don't get a new franchise tag every year, as most people think. You get 1 and only 1 franchise tag, and it can only be used on one player at a time. If you sign to a multi-year contract a player who is currently franchise tagged, the tag will remain on that player for the entire duration of his contract. Even if he finishes that contract with another team.But wait, you say, plenty of teams franchise players, then sign them to long term deals, then franchise someone the next year. So what gives? That is because they REMOVE the franchise tag before they sign the player to the multi-year contract. This is where the deadline brinkmanship happens in the contract negotiations. When the deadline for being able to remove a franchise tag rolls around, the team and player either have to agree on a contract so the team can remove the tag to sign him to it, or else the deadline will hit and both sides will have to live with the 1 year franchise tender because the team won't want their tag tied up. Most teams are smart enough to remove the tag first, but that hasn't always been the case. Tampa Bay had their franchise tag tied up in some defensive lineman for 6-7 years, IIRC, and he ended up not playing for the Bucs for many of those years.So what would happen here would probably be that New England would franchise Cassel. If they find a trade partner, then Cassel would work out a contract with the new team, and New England would trade him to the new team, I imagine with the stipulation that the trade is only finalized with Cassel signing the new contract with the new team. I'm not sure details on if Cassel has to sign the franchise tender or if New England can just trade him. But either way, New England wouldn't have any guaranteed money they'd be on the hook for, and the new contract is signed with the new team, not with New England. Not sure on details on if New England would remove the tag first or not, but in any event, the new contract with the new team wouldn't affect New England's tag. At best they would free it up and maybe could use it again right away, at worst they couldn't use it again this off-season but it would be free next year.

 

[greenline]

If you put Tyler Thigpen on the Patriots and put Cassel on the Chiefs, do you think that their repective W-L record would change significantly? I don't. Cassel is soo over-rated.

Sure. One guy was brought up in the system, the other isn't. Maybe Thigpen wouldn't be suited for the Patriots offense? I know people think NE is plug and play but that is only true of the right type of players. You can't just stick Ryan Fitzpatrick or Tyler Thigpen in and expect similar results.

 

[Boston]

I see many saying Cassel is over-rated. First of all I don't think anyone is saying he's the next John Elway. What they are saying is that thru a full 16 game schedule he has shown more than enough to potentially be a quality NFL QB. For those who say he's over-rated I'd love to hear what you saw in him that leads you to believe he can't hack it as an NFL starter. I watched every second of his play and I can easily say that by the the end of the year he was fully in control of a complex offense and was making all the throws and reads neccessary to be a productive NFL starter. He played well in good weather and in bad weather and while the Pats schedule was by no means a meat-grinder every game he played in the month of December had playoff implications and he handled the pressure quite well. Does this guarantee future success? No...yet, it provides a lot more information than playing against college compeition or what players such as Rob Johnson, Matt Hasselbeck, Matt Schaub, AJ Feeley and Scott Mitchell showed prior to landing a big contract and/or having a team give him up a decent amount in a trade to acquire their services.

The bottomline is QB is the most important position in football. It's also incredibly hard to find a quality NFL QB. Anyone who goes after Cassel will do so because they saw him play a full 16 game NFL schedule and after watching the tape are convinced he can help them. This decision won't be made because of what they saw in college or due to a one, two or three game stint he had like a Matt Schaub or Rob Johnson. The info on Cassel is far more extensive right now. Looking at past NFL history teams have been willing to roll the dice on guys with a lot more question marks than Cassel and I see no reason to believe that at least one NFL team (because it only takes one) won't be convinced that Cassel can be their QB of the present and future and do for their team what Rich Gannon did during his time with the Raiders.

 

[massraider]

Trading a first round pick for Cassel is a much wiser move than spending that first round pick on a quarterback in the draft. Not only will Cassel be cheaper, he's proven that he's a winner at this level, going 11-5 and leading the #1 offense in the AFC, his contract will undoubtedly be easier to swallow than a top 10 draft pick contract, and at the age of 26 with no previous wear and tear (and no concern of injury) he easily has 10 years in him. A team like the Lions, Chiefs, 49ers, etc. should be lining up to trade for this guy.

Would it have been wise to trade a first for Derek Anderson last year? After all he lead the Browns to 10-6 record in 2007 and was selected to the pro-bowl.

That makes him a "proven winner". Waiting patiently for an answer.

 

[Donnybrook]

If you put Tyler Thigpen on the Patriots and put Cassel on the Chiefs, do you think that their repective W-L record would change significantly? I don't. Cassel is soo over-rated.

Sure. One guy was brought up in the system, the other isn't. Maybe Thigpen wouldn't be suited for the Patriots offense? I know people think NE is plug and play but that is only true of the right type of players. You can't just stick Ryan Fitzpatrick or Tyler Thigpen in and expect similar results.

Thigpen and Cassel have almost identical skill set. Both have very strong arms and both are terrific scamblers. Thigpen started to come on when KC allowed him to play out of the spead offense - similar to what NE was running under Brady. I think he would do more than fine in NE standing behind that line and delivering the ball to those receivers. Cassel did a good job for a QB that had the benefit of one of the easiest schedules to go with their HOF coach and perfect regular season record the year prior. IMO, it doesn't warrant giving up a first round pick and a huge portion of a teams salary cap to sign him.

 

[ROCKET]

This news should come as no surprise. There's no way the Pats are letting Cassel walk without getting something back...and there's no way they're letting him go to a team like the Jets where he can come back to haunt them. Basically one of two scenarios will take place and they both hinge on Brady's health. If Brady is indeed a risk for 2009 than Cassel will remain a Patriot. He's proven that he can win and the Pats were very comfortable with him by the end of the year. With the Patriots 2009 schedule looking very tough they can't risk breaking in another QB even if it strains their salary cap. If Brady's healthy than the Pats will deal him to a team like Tampa or Chicago for picks and get a nice return on a guy they took a seventh round flyer on four years ago. The fact that Brady's health is in question makes it much easier to franchise him as it appears to be a very legitimate concern.

The other aspect with this is what the Pats do with Cassel will be the best indicator of what's really going on with Brady. The minute I see Cassel dealt will be the moment I feel Brady's fine. Yet, if Cassel doesn't get traded prior to the draft than I think Brady's health/return for 2009 will be cloudy.

Are you convinced there will be a market for Cassel? If so, at what price do you think he's worth?

There is no ? that there is a market for starting qb's in the league as history has shown time and time again. I don't think anyone can refute the fact that Cassell is at worst a top 20 -25 NFL QB. So that leaves at least a half dozen teams who would be interested in his services. Out of those teams inevitably 3/4 will draft their future QB in April and go that route. Of the remaining 3/4 teams left who will they choose at QB to step in and start? Out of the free agent pool which QB has more upside than Cassell? No one.There will be a few suitors for him and the Pats will reap the rewards of having a commodity that many teams want. The #'s alone make this scenario inevitable. The only ? is the possibility of Brady not being ready and the Pats retaining Cassell. The Pats will most likely be looking for a late/future first along with probably another couple of 3rd/4th rounders for him. Jared Allen with all his personal issues got the Chiefs comparable compensation last year. Cassell is worth every bit as much as Allen IMO. If history is any indication the Pats will more than likely get the same if not more for Cassell.

Jared Allen was the best defensive end of his generation at the time of that move. Unless you think being a "Top 20-25 QB" equates to being, at worst, one of the top 3 defensive ends [and in many eyes, the #1] on the market, I respectfully disagree that their values are close to equivalent.

The best defensive end of his generation? C'mon now, he's a great player but don't put him in Canton just yet with the likes of Reggie White and Bruce Smith. And given Allen's troubled history I do equate his value going into last off-season with Cassell's going into this one. I do also equate the importance of a quality QB with a quality pass rusher as both are in short supply. I guess this debate won't be answered until we see what the Pats get in compensation but to say Allen is head and shoulders above Cassell in value is stretching it IMO. Are you saying a top 3 DE is worth a top 3 qb?

 

[Jason Wood]

This news should come as no surprise. There's no way the Pats are letting Cassel walk without getting something back...and there's no way they're letting him go to a team like the Jets where he can come back to haunt them. Basically one of two scenarios will take place and they both hinge on Brady's health. If Brady is indeed a risk for 2009 than Cassel will remain a Patriot. He's proven that he can win and the Pats were very comfortable with him by the end of the year. With the Patriots 2009 schedule looking very tough they can't risk breaking in another QB even if it strains their salary cap. If Brady's healthy than the Pats will deal him to a team like Tampa or Chicago for picks and get a nice return on a guy they took a seventh round flyer on four years ago. The fact that Brady's health is in question makes it much easier to franchise him as it appears to be a very legitimate concern.

The other aspect with this is what the Pats do with Cassel will be the best indicator of what's really going on with Brady. The minute I see Cassel dealt will be the moment I feel Brady's fine. Yet, if Cassel doesn't get traded prior to the draft than I think Brady's health/return for 2009 will be cloudy.

Are you convinced there will be a market for Cassel? If so, at what price do you think he's worth?

There is no ? that there is a market for starting qb's in the league as history has shown time and time again. I don't think anyone can refute the fact that Cassell is at worst a top 20 -25 NFL QB. So that leaves at least a half dozen teams who would be interested in his services. Out of those teams inevitably 3/4 will draft their future QB in April and go that route. Of the remaining 3/4 teams left who will they choose at QB to step in and start? Out of the free agent pool which QB has more upside than Cassell? No one.There will be a few suitors for him and the Pats will reap the rewards of having a commodity that many teams want. The #'s alone make this scenario inevitable. The only ? is the possibility of Brady not being ready and the Pats retaining Cassell. The Pats will most likely be looking for a late/future first along with probably another couple of 3rd/4th rounders for him. Jared Allen with all his personal issues got the Chiefs comparable compensation last year. Cassell is worth every bit as much as Allen IMO. If history is any indication the Pats will more than likely get the same if not more for Cassell.

Jared Allen was the best defensive end of his generation at the time of that move. Unless you think being a "Top 20-25 QB" equates to being, at worst, one of the top 3 defensive ends [and in many eyes, the #1] on the market, I respectfully disagree that their values are close to equivalent.

The best defensive end of his generation? C'mon now, he's a great player but don't put him in Canton just yet with the likes of Reggie White and Bruce Smith. And given Allen's troubled history I do equate his value going into last off-season with Cassell's going into this one. I do also equate the importance of a quality QB with a quality pass rusher as both are in short supply. I guess this debate won't be answered until we see what the Pats get in compensation but to say Allen is head and shoulders above Cassell in value is stretching it IMO. Are you saying a top 3 DE is worth a top 3 qb?

He's 27 years old, when I say generation, I'm talking about DEs that have been in the league for the last five years or so.Here were some thoughts on Allen from the blog when he was traded to Minny:

http://blog.footballguys.com/2008/04/23/ja...id-not-overpay/

As to Top 3 DE vs. Top 3 QB...I think both are vitally important components to a winning team. But how did we get from comparing top 3 DEs to top 3 QBs now? Cassel isn't a top 3 QB or anything close to it, yet you said you thought he was worth as much as Allen on the trade market. What I'm saying is that a top 3 DE is worth more than a top 15-20 QB, absolutely.

 

[identikit]

This news should come as no surprise. There's no way the Pats are letting Cassel walk without getting something back...and there's no way they're letting him go to a team like the Jets where he can come back to haunt them. Basically one of two scenarios will take place and they both hinge on Brady's health. If Brady is indeed a risk for 2009 than Cassel will remain a Patriot. He's proven that he can win and the Pats were very comfortable with him by the end of the year. With the Patriots 2009 schedule looking very tough they can't risk breaking in another QB even if it strains their salary cap. If Brady's healthy than the Pats will deal him to a team like Tampa or Chicago for picks and get a nice return on a guy they took a seventh round flyer on four years ago. The fact that Brady's health is in question makes it much easier to franchise him as it appears to be a very legitimate concern.

The other aspect with this is what the Pats do with Cassel will be the best indicator of what's really going on with Brady. The minute I see Cassel dealt will be the moment I feel Brady's fine. Yet, if Cassel doesn't get traded prior to the draft than I think Brady's health/return for 2009 will be cloudy.

Are you convinced there will be a market for Cassel? If so, at what price do you think he's worth?

There is no ? that there is a market for starting qb's in the league as history has shown time and time again. I don't think anyone can refute the fact that Cassell is at worst a top 20 -25 NFL QB. So that leaves at least a half dozen teams who would be interested in his services. Out of those teams inevitably 3/4 will draft their future QB in April and go that route. Of the remaining 3/4 teams left who will they choose at QB to step in and start? Out of the free agent pool which QB has more upside than Cassell? No one.There will be a few suitors for him and the Pats will reap the rewards of having a commodity that many teams want. The #'s alone make this scenario inevitable. The only ? is the possibility of Brady not being ready and the Pats retaining Cassell. The Pats will most likely be looking for a late/future first along with probably another couple of 3rd/4th rounders for him. Jared Allen with all his personal issues got the Chiefs comparable compensation last year. Cassell is worth every bit as much as Allen IMO. If history is any indication the Pats will more than likely get the same if not more for Cassell.

Jared Allen was the best defensive end of his generation at the time of that move. Unless you think being a "Top 20-25 QB" equates to being, at worst, one of the top 3 defensive ends [and in many eyes, the #1] on the market, I respectfully disagree that their values are close to equivalent.

The best defensive end of his generation? C'mon now, he's a great player but don't put him in Canton just yet with the likes of Reggie White and Bruce Smith. And given Allen's troubled history I do equate his value going into last off-season with Cassell's going into this one. I do also equate the importance of a quality QB with a quality pass rusher as both are in short supply. I guess this debate won't be answered until we see what the Pats get in compensation but to say Allen is head and shoulders above Cassell in value is stretching it IMO. Are you saying a top 3 DE is worth a top 3 qb?

He's 27 years old, when I say generation, I'm talking about DEs that have been in the league for the last five years or so.Here were some thoughts on Allen from the blog when he was traded to Minny:

http://blog.footballguys.com/2008/04/23/ja...id-not-overpay/

As to Top 3 DE vs. Top 3 QB...I think both are vitally important components to a winning team. But how did we get from comparing top 3 DEs to top 3 QBs now? Cassel isn't a top 3 QB or anything close to it, yet you said you thought he was worth as much as Allen on the trade market. What I'm saying is that a top 3 DE is worth more than a top 15-20 QB, absolutely.

5 year generations? Must be the dog-year sliding scale.

 

[Jason Wood]

This news should come as no surprise. There's no way the Pats are letting Cassel walk without getting something back...and there's no way they're letting him go to a team like the Jets where he can come back to haunt them. Basically one of two scenarios will take place and they both hinge on Brady's health. If Brady is indeed a risk for 2009 than Cassel will remain a Patriot. He's proven that he can win and the Pats were very comfortable with him by the end of the year. With the Patriots 2009 schedule looking very tough they can't risk breaking in another QB even if it strains their salary cap. If Brady's healthy than the Pats will deal him to a team like Tampa or Chicago for picks and get a nice return on a guy they took a seventh round flyer on four years ago. The fact that Brady's health is in question makes it much easier to franchise him as it appears to be a very legitimate concern.

The other aspect with this is what the Pats do with Cassel will be the best indicator of what's really going on with Brady. The minute I see Cassel dealt will be the moment I feel Brady's fine. Yet, if Cassel doesn't get traded prior to the draft than I think Brady's health/return for 2009 will be cloudy.

Are you convinced there will be a market for Cassel? If so, at what price do you think he's worth?

There is no ? that there is a market for starting qb's in the league as history has shown time and time again. I don't think anyone can refute the fact that Cassell is at worst a top 20 -25 NFL QB. So that leaves at least a half dozen teams who would be interested in his services. Out of those teams inevitably 3/4 will draft their future QB in April and go that route. Of the remaining 3/4 teams left who will they choose at QB to step in and start? Out of the free agent pool which QB has more upside than Cassell? No one.There will be a few suitors for him and the Pats will reap the rewards of having a commodity that many teams want. The #'s alone make this scenario inevitable. The only ? is the possibility of Brady not being ready and the Pats retaining Cassell. The Pats will most likely be looking for a late/future first along with probably another couple of 3rd/4th rounders for him. Jared Allen with all his personal issues got the Chiefs comparable compensation last year. Cassell is worth every bit as much as Allen IMO. If history is any indication the Pats will more than likely get the same if not more for Cassell.

Jared Allen was the best defensive end of his generation at the time of that move. Unless you think being a "Top 20-25 QB" equates to being, at worst, one of the top 3 defensive ends [and in many eyes, the #1] on the market, I respectfully disagree that their values are close to equivalent.

The best defensive end of his generation? C'mon now, he's a great player but don't put him in Canton just yet with the likes of Reggie White and Bruce Smith. And given Allen's troubled history I do equate his value going into last off-season with Cassell's going into this one. I do also equate the importance of a quality QB with a quality pass rusher as both are in short supply. I guess this debate won't be answered until we see what the Pats get in compensation but to say Allen is head and shoulders above Cassell in value is stretching it IMO. Are you saying a top 3 DE is worth a top 3 qb?

He's 27 years old, when I say generation, I'm talking about DEs that have been in the league for the last five years or so.Here were some thoughts on Allen from the blog when he was traded to Minny:

http://blog.footballguys.com/2008/04/23/ja...id-not-overpay/

As to Top 3 DE vs. Top 3 QB...I think both are vitally important components to a winning team. But how did we get from comparing top 3 DEs to top 3 QBs now? Cassel isn't a top 3 QB or anything close to it, yet you said you thought he was worth as much as Allen on the trade market. What I'm saying is that a top 3 DE is worth more than a top 15-20 QB, absolutely.

5 year generations? Must be the dog-year sliding scale.

In a league where the average tenure is under 3 years? C'mon...choose "contemporary" or "peer" if you would rather. Doesn't change the fact that Allen, to date, is one of the if not the best ends in the league over that span. Why argue a point that's outside the domain of what's really up for discussion?Do you disagree that a top 3 DE has more value than a potential top 15 QB?

 

[Capella]

Gruden/Allen are on a short leash in Tampa. And absolutely no QB to turn to in 09.

I feel fairly certain that they will offer their #1, at least, for this guy. But if Brady isn't ready it won't matter. NE won't let him go if that's the case.

 

[David Yudkin]

Getting back to Cassel, bear in mind that 1) the Pats have to have the cap room to even make a franchise OFFER to Cassel. Even if Cassel does not sign it, he would count against the salary cap. While the Pats appear to have enough right now heading into 2009 to be able to franchise him, they do not have a full compliment of players rostered at the moment. So that would potnetially mean (provided they don't free up more cap space) that they would not be able to re-sign their own free agents, any other free agents, or any of their draft picks. If the Pats WERE to keep Cassel at that number (likely $14M+), that would really mess with their flexibility to sign anyone else and could force their hand to cut players they wouldn't otherwise.

BTW, the other thing not being discussed is that there are two types of franchise tags . . . one that would allow other teams to negotiate with Cassel and would pay him the average of the Top 5 QBs based on 2008 salaries (with teams having to pony up two 1st round picks in compensation if they signed him). The other tag would be an exclusive franchise tag where he could not negotiate with any other teams and he would be paid the average of the Top 5 QBs based on 2009 salaries.

 

[fflnut]

Gruden/Allen are on a short leash in Tampa. And absolutely no QB to turn to in 09.

I feel fairly certain that they will offer their #1, at least, for this guy. But if Brady isn't ready it won't matter. NE won't let him go if that's the case.

Have to wonder if this will be the case or if they'll trade him regardless with the intention of having Matt Gutierrez or Kevin O'Connell fully prepped for the regular season. You have to assume that Brady will be ready at some point next season, even if it's not the first game.

 

[gianmarco]

For those who say he's over-rated I'd love to hear what you saw in him that leads you to believe he can't hack it as an NFL starter

While I didn't watch every snap of every play of every game, I did watch quite a bit of him in different games including near the end of the year when he seemed to "get it". I don't think he got it. I think the NE game plan and play calling was much more suited to what he was able and not able to do.What he's able to do is hit short, quick routes with pretty good precision.What he's not able to do is gauge how to throw any deep patterns with any type of accuracy or correct ball trajectory. I saw a QB who can't make all of the NFL throws. I saw him miss Moss at least once in every game that I watched and oftentimes more than once. These were times when Moss would (finally) have single coverage and teams would dare him to beat them and Cassel would plain miss. Instead of lobbing the ball with an arc so that only Moss can get it in the back of the endzone, he'd throw a much flatter ball with no arc that just ended up sailing over Randy's head.Cassel thrived on short passes to RB's (Faulk, esp.) and to Welker. As the year progressed, all I noticed was that the Patriots called up more of those shorter patterns and allowed their RB/WR/TE make the play for additional yardage. He was also good at picking up yards on his own with his feet when needed.I think what he ended up doing was doing well with what he's able to do and what the Pats called for him and I give him credit for that. I do not think he has an NFL-caliber arm with a full array of throws at his disposal. In those terms, Cassel is most definitely a "system" QB. That doesn't mean he can't be useful for other teams, but let's not get carried away by his play just because his stats improved as the year went on.ETA--I don't know where to look, but I'd love to see Cassel's breakdown in terms of attempts/completions of passes 10+ or 15+ yds. I know I've seen them during a game as a stat and they were NEVER pretty.

 

[identikit]

This news should come as no surprise. There's no way the Pats are letting Cassel walk without getting something back...and there's no way they're letting him go to a team like the Jets where he can come back to haunt them. Basically one of two scenarios will take place and they both hinge on Brady's health. If Brady is indeed a risk for 2009 than Cassel will remain a Patriot. He's proven that he can win and the Pats were very comfortable with him by the end of the year. With the Patriots 2009 schedule looking very tough they can't risk breaking in another QB even if it strains their salary cap. If Brady's healthy than the Pats will deal him to a team like Tampa or Chicago for picks and get a nice return on a guy they took a seventh round flyer on four years ago. The fact that Brady's health is in question makes it much easier to franchise him as it appears to be a very legitimate concern.

The other aspect with this is what the Pats do with Cassel will be the best indicator of what's really going on with Brady. The minute I see Cassel dealt will be the moment I feel Brady's fine. Yet, if Cassel doesn't get traded prior to the draft than I think Brady's health/return for 2009 will be cloudy.

Are you convinced there will be a market for Cassel? If so, at what price do you think he's worth?

There is no ? that there is a market for starting qb's in the league as history has shown time and time again. I don't think anyone can refute the fact that Cassell is at worst a top 20 -25 NFL QB. So that leaves at least a half dozen teams who would be interested in his services. Out of those teams inevitably 3/4 will draft their future QB in April and go that route. Of the remaining 3/4 teams left who will they choose at QB to step in and start? Out of the free agent pool which QB has more upside than Cassell? No one.There will be a few suitors for him and the Pats will reap the rewards of having a commodity that many teams want. The #'s alone make this scenario inevitable. The only ? is the possibility of Brady not being ready and the Pats retaining Cassell. The Pats will most likely be looking for a late/future first along with probably another couple of 3rd/4th rounders for him. Jared Allen with all his personal issues got the Chiefs comparable compensation last year. Cassell is worth every bit as much as Allen IMO. If history is any indication the Pats will more than likely get the same if not more for Cassell.

Jared Allen was the best defensive end of his generation at the time of that move. Unless you think being a "Top 20-25 QB" equates to being, at worst, one of the top 3 defensive ends [and in many eyes, the #1] on the market, I respectfully disagree that their values are close to equivalent.

The best defensive end of his generation? C'mon now, he's a great player but don't put him in Canton just yet with the likes of Reggie White and Bruce Smith. And given Allen's troubled history I do equate his value going into last off-season with Cassell's going into this one. I do also equate the importance of a quality QB with a quality pass rusher as both are in short supply. I guess this debate won't be answered until we see what the Pats get in compensation but to say Allen is head and shoulders above Cassell in value is stretching it IMO. Are you saying a top 3 DE is worth a top 3 qb?

He's 27 years old, when I say generation, I'm talking about DEs that have been in the league for the last five years or so.Here were some thoughts on Allen from the blog when he was traded to Minny:

http://blog.footballguys.com/2008/04/23/ja...id-not-overpay/

As to Top 3 DE vs. Top 3 QB...I think both are vitally important components to a winning team. But how did we get from comparing top 3 DEs to top 3 QBs now? Cassel isn't a top 3 QB or anything close to it, yet you said you thought he was worth as much as Allen on the trade market. What I'm saying is that a top 3 DE is worth more than a top 15-20 QB, absolutely.

5 year generations? Must be the dog-year sliding scale.

In a league where the average tenure is under 3 years? C'mon...choose "contemporary" or "peer" if you would rather. Doesn't change the fact that Allen, to date, is one of the if not the best ends in the league over that span. Why argue a point that's outside the domain of what's really up for discussion?Do you disagree that a top 3 DE has more value than a potential top 15 QB?

I don't disagree with that at all. Doesn't mean that someone won't pay Allen-type compensation for Cassel. They may pay even more.Most people think of a generation as 2 decades (give or take). I doubt you meant to say that Allen is the best DE in the past 20 years. Takes away from your position when you use hyperbole (whether it was intentional or not).

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Getting back to Cassel, bear in mind that 1) the Pats have to have the cap room to even make a franchise OFFER to Cassel. Even if Cassel does not sign it, he would count against the salary cap. While the Pats appear to have enough right now heading into 2009 to be able to franchise him, they do not have a full compliment of players rostered at the moment. So that would potnetially mean (provided they don't free up more cap space) that they would not be able to re-sign their own free agents, any other free agents, or any of their draft picks. If the Pats WERE to keep Cassel at that number (likely $14M+), that would really mess with their flexibility to sign anyone else and could force their hand to cut players they wouldn't otherwise.BTW, the other thing not being discussed is that there are two types of franchise tags . . . one that would allow other teams to negotiate with Cassel and would pay him the average of the Top 5 QBs based on 2008 salaries (with teams having to pony up two 1st round picks in compensation if they signed him). The other tag would be an exclusive franchise tag where he could not negotiate with any other teams and he would be paid the average of the Top 5 QBs based on 2009 salaries.

David, your Cassel related thoughts here seem to imply that if the Pats tag Cassel, that they will keep him next season...is that accurate? Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but they could rather easily clear the room to tag him, trade him the first day of free agency like the Packers did with Corey Williams where a long-term deal was done and then go on about business as usual with re-signing and signing of other players. At least that's my take on how it will play out...with the Pats having little choice but to trade Cassel early in free agency. The obvious drawback to this is that there will still be major questionmarks about Brady's health at that point, but I don't think there's any choice. It'll be interesting to see how the pieces fall into place.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Cassell's stats remind me a bit of Derek Anderson's last year -- people think his raw numbers are impressive. But you shouldn't use raw numbers to rate QBs; you should use per attempt numbers.

Cassell ranks 14th in adjusted net yards per attempt this year. That's average. When you have Randy Moss and Wes Welker, that's not impressive. Now if you want to say for a first year starting QB what Cassell did was impressive, then that's fine. On the other hand, Cassell has been in the NFL for years now so I'm not so sure that's a fair standard.

Bottom line is if Cassell doesn't improve (that is, you're not signing him for his potential) I think he'll be a bust wherever he goes. Cassell led the league in sacks and really didn't have impressive rate numbers.

What's the difference between Cassell and Trent Edwards? I feel pretty comfortable stating that if Edwards had 16 games with the Patriots, his numbers would look really, really good, too.

It's also not wise to compare Cassell's numbers to anyone but 2008 QBs -- this year was the best season for QBs in NFL history.

 

[gianmarco]

Was looking at some other stats that kind of goes along with what I was saying above (although I'd like to know his actual attempts and completion % of throws of 10+, 15+, 20+ yds). I looked at the teams at the top in terms of passing yds, YAC by their receivers, and 20+ passing plays (these were the only stats I was able to find so far). These are ranked in terms of total passing yards for the year until you get to the Patriots.

Rank Team YAC/Total Passing Yards % YAC/Tot Passing Yds # of plays of 20+ yds1 New Orleans Saints 2398/4977 48% 662 Arizona Cardinals 2294/4674 49% 543 Denver Broncos 1891/4471 42% 554 Houston Texans 2134/4267 50% 605 Indianapolis Colts 1748/4094 43% 42 6 Philadelphia Eagles 1876/3911 47% 52 7 San Diego Chargers 1840/3858 48% 488 Green Bay Packers 1656/3813 43% 489 Dallas Cowboys 1831/3789 48% 5410 Miami 1566/3632 43% 3911 TB Buccaneers 1736/3619 48% 4212 New England Patriots 2154/3569 60% 38Looking at those #'s, a couple things jump out. First of all is the obvious difference in the % of YAC/Total Passing yds that NE has vs. the rest of the top passing teams in the league. So while his final passing #'s look good and many were going gaga over his 400 yd games, Cassel's receivers helped him a substantial amount more than the other teams putting up big passing #'s. This also goes along with the fact that Cassel, at least from what I've seen, was asked to make a lot of short throws and let his receivers do the rest. Houston was the closest team in terms of % and was only at 50%. To go along with that, at least Houston was also 2nd in the league in plays over 20+ yds with 60 of them.

Then, the only stat I could find in relation to big plays listed on nfl.com (or anywhere in my quick search) was 20+ yd passing plays (also 40+ yd, but that's not helpful and much smaller sample size). Again, not surprisingly, Cassel is at the bottom of that list as well. More importantly, aside from Peyton Manning (which I was surprised to see), he has similar #'s there to Jeff Garcia and Chad Pennington, both guys who are known to have weak arms and excel at short passes. When you have arguably the most talented/gifted WR who excels at the deep ball/jump ball, something doesn't fit here. For those saying Cassel has a good arm, these #'s don't bear that out.

These 2 findings go pretty well with the idea that Cassel thrived using shorter passing plays and benefiting from the work his receivers did.

 

[Boston]

For those who say he's over-rated I'd love to hear what you saw in him that leads you to believe he can't hack it as an NFL starter

While I didn't watch every snap of every play of every game, I did watch quite a bit of him in different games including near the end of the year when he seemed to "get it". I don't think he got it. I think the NE game plan and play calling was much more suited to what he was able and not able to do.What he's able to do is hit short, quick routes with pretty good precision.What he's not able to do is gauge how to throw any deep patterns with any type of accuracy or correct ball trajectory. I saw a QB who can't make all of the NFL throws. I saw him miss Moss at least once in every game that I watched and oftentimes more than once. These were times when Moss would (finally) have single coverage and teams would dare him to beat them and Cassel would plain miss. Instead of lobbing the ball with an arc so that only Moss can get it in the back of the endzone, he'd throw a much flatter ball with no arc that just ended up sailing over Randy's head.Cassel thrived on short passes to RB's (Faulk, esp.) and to Welker. As the year progressed, all I noticed was that the Patriots called up more of those shorter patterns and allowed their RB/WR/TE make the play for additional yardage. He was also good at picking up yards on his own with his feet when needed.I think what he ended up doing was doing well with what he's able to do and what the Pats called for him and I give him credit for that. I do not think he has an NFL-caliber arm with a full array of throws at his disposal. In those terms, Cassel is most definitely a "system" QB. That doesn't mean he can't be useful for other teams, but let's not get carried away by his play just because his stats improved as the year went on.ETA--I don't know where to look, but I'd love to see Cassel's breakdown in terms of attempts/completions of passes 10+ or 15+ yds. I know I've seen them during a game as a stat and they were NEVER pretty.

There's no way you watched the same games as me. Your report sounds like it was made at mid-season when Cassel was still figuring things out. The second half of the year he continued to improve and was much improved in every facet of the game. Also, please remember this was his first live action in about eight years. To say he's not just scratching the surface is really selling him short. Also, you do not mention anything about his intelligence and leadership which IMO have become essntial to a QB being successful in today's NFL. In all honesty I think it's an absolute joke if you think any shmoo with limited talent could have done what Cassel did this year. I'm not saying he's the next Joe Montana but I think he more than proved that he deserves the opportunity to start in the NFL.Also, this system QB BS gets thrown around way too much. How many QBs have really played well in different systems? QBs have different skill sets and I agree that not every QB can run a WCO or something like Boomer or Jim Kelley ran. Yet, when I hear this talk it's as if every team in the NFL runs a totally different offense and that's just not the case. While there are differences many are pretty similar. A good coach has a system in place but he will tweak it depending on the skill-set of the QB. To think what the Patriots do is so far removed from every other offense in the NFL just isn't the case.

 

[JPeso]

Cassel got significantly better. I am convinced that he can be a pretty solid starting QB with a decent offensive line. He is fairly mobile and has a decent arm.

 

[Thunderlips]

What else are the Pats going to do? I don't think it's a good thing for them....having to pay Brady and Cassel a good amount of scrilla.....but they need a QB.

 

[gianmarco]

For those who say he's over-rated I'd love to hear what you saw in him that leads you to believe he can't hack it as an NFL starter

While I didn't watch every snap of every play of every game, I did watch quite a bit of him in different games including near the end of the year when he seemed to "get it". I don't think he got it. I think the NE game plan and play calling was much more suited to what he was able and not able to do.What he's able to do is hit short, quick routes with pretty good precision.What he's not able to do is gauge how to throw any deep patterns with any type of accuracy or correct ball trajectory. I saw a QB who can't make all of the NFL throws. I saw him miss Moss at least once in every game that I watched and oftentimes more than once. These were times when Moss would (finally) have single coverage and teams would dare him to beat them and Cassel would plain miss. Instead of lobbing the ball with an arc so that only Moss can get it in the back of the endzone, he'd throw a much flatter ball with no arc that just ended up sailing over Randy's head.Cassel thrived on short passes to RB's (Faulk, esp.) and to Welker. As the year progressed, all I noticed was that the Patriots called up more of those shorter patterns and allowed their RB/WR/TE make the play for additional yardage. He was also good at picking up yards on his own with his feet when needed.I think what he ended up doing was doing well with what he's able to do and what the Pats called for him and I give him credit for that. I do not think he has an NFL-caliber arm with a full array of throws at his disposal. In those terms, Cassel is most definitely a "system" QB. That doesn't mean he can't be useful for other teams, but let's not get carried away by his play just because his stats improved as the year went on.ETA--I don't know where to look, but I'd love to see Cassel's breakdown in terms of attempts/completions of passes 10+ or 15+ yds. I know I've seen them during a game as a stat and they were NEVER pretty.

There's no way you watched the same games as me. Your report sounds like it was made at mid-season when Cassel was still figuring things out. The second half of the year he continued to improve and was much improved in every facet of the game. Also, please remember this was his first live action in about eight years. To say he's not just scratching the surface is really selling him short. Also, you do not mention anything about his intelligence and leadership which IMO have become essntial to a QB being successful in today's NFL. In all honesty I think it's an absolute joke if you think any shmoo with limited talent could have done what Cassel did this year. I'm not saying he's the next Joe Montana but I think he more than proved that he deserves the opportunity to start in the NFL.Also, this system QB BS gets thrown around way too much. How many QBs have really played well in different systems? QBs have different skill sets and I agree that not every QB can run a WCO or something like Boomer or Jim Kelley ran. Yet, when I hear this talk it's as if every team in the NFL runs a totally different offense and that's just not the case. While there are differences many are pretty similar. A good coach has a system in place but he will tweak it depending on the skill-set of the QB. To think what the Patriots do is so far removed from every other offense in the NFL just isn't the case.

Specific games I watched in the 2nd half:Week 11 vs. NYJ--I know he threw for 400 yds but he was absolutely horrible that game. He had over 50 passing attempts and made numerous TERRIBLE throws, particularly targets of Moss. As a Randy Moss owner in a few leagues, this is why I remember it clearly. It was probably the "worst" 400 yd passing game I've ever seen. Nice product in the stat sheet, terrible game if you watched it on his part.Week 12 vs. Miami--He looked fantastic in this game. He followed up his previous week with another 400 yd passing performance. It seemed like the light clicked finally.Week 13 vs. Pitt--I know it's Pitt but Cassel looked out of his league. He was terrible. Last week looked like a fluke. Maybe next week.Week 14 vs. Seattle--Against the worst pass defenses in the league, he only managed 268 yds on 44 attempts. Again, he simply didn't look good and was missing wide open receivers. Welker was the only WR doing anything (again, easily noticed as a Moss owner) and he was catching short pass after short pass. This is supposed to be a guy who is turning the corner and looking good and against a terrible defense he was mediocre at best (and below average considering his weapons). 12 catches for 134 yards for Welker in this game. Every play was a short catch by Welker that turned into a 10 yd gain. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Only 130 yds to the rest of the team. Not good.Week 16 vs. Arizona--Nice showing vs. Arizona in terrible weather conditions. Made a statement for sure in this game, but vs Arizona and in these conditions, not anything that tells me he's gotten better.Week 17 vs. Buff--Absolutely terrible weather conditions. 8 passing attempts. Nothing to see here.I watched all of these games. This is 6 games in the 2nd half. Only 2 of them were impressive and the 1 vs. Arizona was against a team that didn't look like they even showed up and was one of the worst defensive showings I've ever seen. Only his game vs. Miami showed me the things that others have said about him. I'm not making this stuff up, I'm not a Patriot fan or a Patriot hater or a Brady fan. I just didn't see anything that tells me Cassel is a legit NFL QB. In these games, in the time he was apparently improving, I saw a QB that made plays with his feet and threw a ton of short passes. I compare this to the 1st half of the season when it seemed he attempted longer passes but kept missing. Now, it just seemed like he didn't even try those as often as they weren't going to work. As for his intelligence and leadership, what kind of leadership has he shown? I'm not saying he's not a leader, but I never saw any specific examples of what he did. As for intelligence, he just did what he was asked to do well. Nothing stood out.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Don't worry guys, if Cassel goes somewhere else and sucks it's just proof that THE PATRIOTS IS GENIUSES