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Paul Krugman is a jackass (1 Viewer)

More jobs reduce the deficit. We can grow our way out of negative debt to GDP ratios. You might disagree but I certainly don't see what's preposterous about that policy option. Your prescription is basically mirrored in the Japan 10 year economic slump.
As the "too small" $1T stimulus clearly and uncontrovertibly showed, government spending is not a panacea for a lack of long term job growth. Never has been, never will be. When the spending goes away, so do the jobs. Endless spending to maintain the jobs over the long term is inarguably unsustainable.It's a model that does not work.
If you're calling it the "$1T stimulus", then you're including the tax cuts as spending. Is it your position that tax cuts are indeed spending? Assuming your answer is yes, are you in favor of repealing the Bush Tax Cuts as a measure to reduce gov't spending?
 
More jobs reduce the deficit. We can grow our way out of negative debt to GDP ratios. You might disagree but I certainly don't see what's preposterous about that policy option. Your prescription is basically mirrored in the Japan 10 year economic slump.
As the "too small" $1T stimulus clearly and uncontrovertibly showed, government spending is not a panacea for a lack of long term job growth. Never has been, never will be. When the spending goes away, so do the jobs. Endless spending to maintain the jobs over the long term is inarguably unsustainable.It's a model that does not work.
I guess you're opposed to using antibiotics when people are sick too, because once the antibiotics are out of the system, the body can no longer fight the illness! Shots of epinephrine to people having an allergic reaction are stupid too because, once the shot wears off, what's gonna be there to help prevent the airways from closing up again! BOOOOO, BOOOOO, heed my misunderstanding of how temporary solutions never help! It's inarguable! It just doesn't work. Period. End of story. Why? Because I said so. Write it in stone.
Wow. Great analogies. How could anyone argue with the irrefutable parallels?
 
More jobs reduce the deficit. We can grow our way out of negative debt to GDP ratios. You might disagree but I certainly don't see what's preposterous about that policy option. Your prescription is basically mirrored in the Japan 10 year economic slump.
As the "too small" $1T stimulus clearly and uncontrovertibly showed, government spending is not a panacea for a lack of long term job growth. Never has been, never will be. When the spending goes away, so do the jobs. Endless spending to maintain the jobs over the long term is inarguably unsustainable.It's a model that does not work.
If you're calling it the "$1T stimulus", then you're including the tax cuts as spending. Is it your position that tax cuts are indeed spending? Assuming your answer is yes, are you in favor of repealing the Bush Tax Cuts as a measure to reduce gov't spending?
I've said it many times, tommy. I'll say it yet again and maybe you'll read it and understand it this time.Increased revenues are going to be required to get our way out of this mess. That means an increase in tax revenues, which in the absence of serious job growth means an increase in taxes.

However, that has to be preceeded by a show of faith by the Federal government that it is serious about a reduction in spending. No one in their right mind would agree to giving the Federal government more revenue through an increase in taxes first, since the Federal government's well established track record is to simply spend more when they get more revenue. It is also a matter of simple math that the problems with the out-of-control debt can not be resolved through simply increeasing taxes. There will have to be long term cuts, or we will only find ourselves right back in this mess.

So to answer your little "gotcha" that you love to use repeatedly in several threads and think is so cute, yes, I'd agree to repeal the tax cuts - AFTER we see a very real committment to a reduction in Federal spending.

 
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So to answer your little "gotcha" that you love to use repeatedly in several threads and think is so cute, yes, I'd agree to repeal the tax cuts - AFTER we see a very real committment to a reduction in Federal spending.
It's not a "gotcha", it's a simple question. Are tax cuts govt' spending? Yes or no? Because you repeated refer to tax cuts as gov't spending when you describe the stimulus.Which is it?

 
More jobs reduce the deficit. We can grow our way out of negative debt to GDP ratios. You might disagree but I certainly don't see what's preposterous about that policy option. Your prescription is basically mirrored in the Japan 10 year economic slump.
As the "too small" $1T stimulus clearly and uncontrovertibly showed, government spending is not a panacea for a lack of long term job growth. Never has been, never will be. When the spending goes away, so do the jobs. Endless spending to maintain the jobs over the long term is inarguably unsustainable.It's a model that does not work.
I guess you're opposed to using antibiotics when people are sick too, because once the antibiotics are out of the system, the body can no longer fight the illness! Shots of epinephrine to people having an allergic reaction are stupid too because, once the shot wears off, what's gonna be there to help prevent the airways from closing up again! BOOOOO, BOOOOO, heed my misunderstanding of how temporary solutions never help! It's inarguable! It just doesn't work. Period. End of story. Why? Because I said so. Write it in stone.
Wow. Great analogies. How could anyone argue with the irrefutable parallels?
Agreed. They're uncontrovertible [sic].
 
So to answer your little "gotcha" that you love to use repeatedly in several threads and think is so cute, yes, I'd agree to repeal the tax cuts - AFTER we see a very real committment to a reduction in Federal spending.
It's not a "gotcha", it's a simple question. Are tax cuts govt' spending? Yes or no? Because you repeated refer to tax cuts as gov't spending when you describe the stimulus.Which is it?
Do I really need to answer the question again? If I just quote myself from my response directly above, would you read it this time? Call them whatever you want, a reduction in taxes in the face of virtually no job growth is a reduction in revenue, which affects the debt exactly the same as increased spending. So, no they are not the same, but given the economic circumstances the results are equivalent.Now, do you need me to quote myself so that you'll read it this time?

 
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More jobs reduce the deficit. We can grow our way out of negative debt to GDP ratios. You might disagree but I certainly don't see what's preposterous about that policy option. Your prescription is basically mirrored in the Japan 10 year economic slump.
As the "too small" $1T stimulus clearly and uncontrovertibly showed, government spending is not a panacea for a lack of long term job growth. Never has been, never will be. When the spending goes away, so do the jobs. Endless spending to maintain the jobs over the long term is inarguably unsustainable.It's a model that does not work.
I guess you're opposed to using antibiotics when people are sick too, because once the antibiotics are out of the system, the body can no longer fight the illness! Shots of epinephrine to people having an allergic reaction are stupid too because, once the shot wears off, what's gonna be there to help prevent the airways from closing up again! BOOOOO, BOOOOO, heed my misunderstanding of how temporary solutions never help! It's inarguable! It just doesn't work. Period. End of story. Why? Because I said so. Write it in stone.
Wow. Great analogies. How could anyone argue with the irrefutable parallels?
Agreed. They're uncontrovertible [sic].
I'm certain that you believe this.
 
So to answer your little "gotcha" that you love to use repeatedly in several threads and think is so cute, yes, I'd agree to repeal the tax cuts - AFTER we see a very real committment to a reduction in Federal spending.
It's not a "gotcha", it's a simple question. Are tax cuts govt' spending? Yes or no? Because you repeated refer to tax cuts as gov't spending when you describe the stimulus.Which is it?
Do I really need to answer the question again? If I just quote myself from my response directly above, would you read it this time? Call them whatever you want, a reduction in taxes in the face of virtually no job growth is a reduction in revenue, which affects the debt exactly the same as increased spending. So, no they are not the same, but given the economic circumstances the results are equivalent.Now, do you need me to quote myself so that you'll read it this time?
You're still being inconsistent, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. You can't label the stimulus as "$1T" in gov't spending unless you're labeling the tax cuts in the stimulus package as spending (we'll ignore the fact that even with the tax cuts the total was $787B at passage).Either you consider tax cuts spending, or you should stop throwing around the term "$1T stimulus" and instead refer to it as the "$550B stimulus".

 
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So to answer your little "gotcha" that you love to use repeatedly in several threads and think is so cute, yes, I'd agree to repeal the tax cuts - AFTER we see a very real committment to a reduction in Federal spending.
It's not a "gotcha", it's a simple question. Are tax cuts govt' spending? Yes or no? Because you repeated refer to tax cuts as gov't spending when you describe the stimulus.Which is it?
Do I really need to answer the question again? If I just quote myself from my response directly above, would you read it this time? Call them whatever you want, a reduction in taxes in the face of virtually no job growth is a reduction in revenue, which affects the debt exactly the same as increased spending. So, no they are not the same, but given the economic circumstances the results are equivalent.Now, do you need me to quote myself so that you'll read it this time?
You're still being inconsistent, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. You can't label the stimulus as "$1T" in gov't spending unless you're labeling the tax cuts in the stimulus package as spending (we'll ignore the fact that even with the tax cuts the total was $787B at passage).Either you consider tax cuts spending, or you should stop throwing around the term "$1T stimulus" and instead refer to it as the "$550B stimulus".
Would you feel better if I agreed that the Federal government completely pissed away $550B instead of $1T with the stimulus package, and then agreed to roll back the Bush tax cuts/Obama extensions as long as we get significant serious long term spending reductions first?Or will your head blow up hearing that from a conservative?

 
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I'm somewhat open to Krugman's economic ideas- at least, I'm interested in hearing them. I have come to the conclusion that in today's terrible and very complicated global economy, my preconceived, rather libertarian notions of what should be done may not be applicable any longer. So Krugman may have good points to make and I'd like to learn more.

But the problem is that his articles, which are always so angry and sarcastic, have almost become caricatures. All of the most recent ones, including the one pantagrapher just posted, include the following points:

1. Republicans are fanatical and idiots.

2. Obama and the Democrats are weak and not progressive enough.

3. You should have listened to me long ago; now it may be too late.
Couldn't have written it better myself. My feelings exactly.
Here are some good options for similar opinions without the partisan shilling: Avant, Thoma, Leonhardt, and Smith. You can try Delong too, but he is a little more in Krugrman's vein.
 
So to answer your little "gotcha" that you love to use repeatedly in several threads and think is so cute, yes, I'd agree to repeal the tax cuts - AFTER we see a very real committment to a reduction in Federal spending.
It's not a "gotcha", it's a simple question. Are tax cuts govt' spending? Yes or no? Because you repeated refer to tax cuts as gov't spending when you describe the stimulus.Which is it?
Do I really need to answer the question again? If I just quote myself from my response directly above, would you read it this time? Call them whatever you want, a reduction in taxes in the face of virtually no job growth is a reduction in revenue, which affects the debt exactly the same as increased spending. So, no they are not the same, but given the economic circumstances the results are equivalent.Now, do you need me to quote myself so that you'll read it this time?
You're still being inconsistent, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. You can't label the stimulus as "$1T" in gov't spending unless you're labeling the tax cuts in the stimulus package as spending (we'll ignore the fact that even with the tax cuts the total was $787B at passage).Either you consider tax cuts spending, or you should stop throwing around the term "$1T stimulus" and instead refer to it as the "$550B stimulus".
Do you expect more at this point? If he is not going to do anything but make misleading claims just put his ### on ignore and save your time for the people on his side that can actually make a point without making #### up.
 
Bronco, your willingness to pay more taxes in exchange for serious spending cuts puts you directly at odds with the Tea Party, and with the Republican members of the Supercommittee, all of whom pledged no tax increases whatsoever. It puts you at odds with every Republican nominee for POTUS, all of whom the other day stated that they would not accept tax increases even if the ratio to spending cuts was 1 to 10 (Rick Perry wasn't there, but I'm betting he would have agreed.)

Democrats, OTOH, have stated from Obama on down that they are willing to accept serious spending cuts in exchange for a much smaller percentage of tax increases. Of course, many conservatives believe this is just talk on the Democrat side and that they don't really mean it. But that aside, if we simply consider rhetoric, based on your stated position here Bronco Billy you are much closer to the Democrat position. The Republican party has become far too extremist for you.

 
So to answer your little "gotcha" that you love to use repeatedly in several threads and think is so cute, yes, I'd agree to repeal the tax cuts - AFTER we see a very real committment to a reduction in Federal spending.
It's not a "gotcha", it's a simple question. Are tax cuts govt' spending? Yes or no? Because you repeated refer to tax cuts as gov't spending when you describe the stimulus.Which is it?
Do I really need to answer the question again? If I just quote myself from my response directly above, would you read it this time? Call them whatever you want, a reduction in taxes in the face of virtually no job growth is a reduction in revenue, which affects the debt exactly the same as increased spending. So, no they are not the same, but given the economic circumstances the results are equivalent.Now, do you need me to quote myself so that you'll read it this time?
You're still being inconsistent, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. You can't label the stimulus as "$1T" in gov't spending unless you're labeling the tax cuts in the stimulus package as spending (we'll ignore the fact that even with the tax cuts the total was $787B at passage).Either you consider tax cuts spending, or you should stop throwing around the term "$1T stimulus" and instead refer to it as the "$550B stimulus".
Would you feel better if I agreed that the Federal government completely pissed away $550B instead of $1T with the stimulus package, and then agreed to roll back the Bush tax cuts/Obama extensions as long as we get significant serious long term spending reductions first?Or will your head blow up hearing that from a conservative?
Why is it strange to hear from a conservative that they would only agree to repeal tax cuts if more of their vaguely defined demands are met?
 
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Bronco, your willingness to pay more taxes in exchange for serious spending cuts puts you directly at odds with the Tea Party,
I know, but if we want serious solutions, we're going to have to get serious about the issue.We have ourselves to blame - we sent these guys to Washington for years and didn't hold them accountable for their actions. Times were good and we worried not enough about what these bozos were doing in our names.Now we're up against it and we're reaping the consequences of our apathy. So fixing the problem is going to require some pain on everyone's part. Everyone needs to kick in a little more - and some more than others, but not until we see some credible action on spending reduction from Washington. We aren't going to pour more gas on the fire and watch merrily while Rome burns.Anyone with an IQ greater than room temperture knows that this super committee idea is a joke - just wasting time, money, and stalling while allowing these idiots to do more finger pointing while things get incrementally worse.I'm staunchly against not paying the Federal government one dime more than it absolutely needs to uphold their responsibilities. But this has gone too far and it has to be fixed.
 
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So to answer your little "gotcha" that you love to use repeatedly in several threads and think is so cute, yes, I'd agree to repeal the tax cuts - AFTER we see a very real committment to a reduction in Federal spending.
It's not a "gotcha", it's a simple question. Are tax cuts govt' spending? Yes or no? Because you repeated refer to tax cuts as gov't spending when you describe the stimulus.Which is it?
Do I really need to answer the question again? If I just quote myself from my response directly above, would you read it this time? Call them whatever you want, a reduction in taxes in the face of virtually no job growth is a reduction in revenue, which affects the debt exactly the same as increased spending. So, no they are not the same, but given the economic circumstances the results are equivalent.Now, do you need me to quote myself so that you'll read it this time?
You're still being inconsistent, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. You can't label the stimulus as "$1T" in gov't spending unless you're labeling the tax cuts in the stimulus package as spending (we'll ignore the fact that even with the tax cuts the total was $787B at passage).Either you consider tax cuts spending, or you should stop throwing around the term "$1T stimulus" and instead refer to it as the "$550B stimulus".
Would you feel better if I agreed that the Federal government completely pissed away $550B instead of $1T with the stimulus package, and then agreed to roll back the Bush tax cuts/Obama extensions as long as we get significant serious long term spending reductions first?Or will your head blow up hearing that from a conservative?
Why is it strange to hear from a conservative that they would only agree to repeal tax cuts if more of their vaguely defined demands are met?
Because at this point it represents a moderate, non-conservative position. The GOP has moved so far to the right (as witness the debate the other night and the "10 to 1 spending" question) that if Bronco were a politician he would be labeled a RINO and probably drummed out of the movement.
 
Bronco, your willingness to pay more taxes in exchange for serious spending cuts puts you directly at odds with the Tea Party,
I know, but if we want serious solutions, we're going to have to get serious about the issue.We have ourselves to blame - we sent these guys to Washington for years and didn't hold them accountable for their actions. Times were good and we worried not enough about what these bozos were doing in our names.Now we're up against it and we're reaping the consequences of our apathy. So fixing the problem is going to require some pain on everyone's part. Everyone needs to kick in a little more - and some more than others, but not until we see some credible action on spending reduction from Washington. We aren't going to pour more gas on the fire and watch merrily while Rome burns.Anyone with an IQ greater than room temperture knows that this super committee idea is a joke - just wasting time, money, and stalling while allowing these idiots to do more finger pointing while things get incrementally worse.I'm staunchly against not paying the Federal government one dime more than it absolutely needs to uphold their responsibilities. But this has gone too far and it has to be fixed.
I find your position here to be completely reasonable. I wish you were a Republican politician currently in Washington. But you aren't, and the ones who are there don't agree with you, unfortunately.
 
Bronco, your willingness to pay more taxes in exchange for serious spending cuts puts you directly at odds with the Tea Party,
I know, but if we want serious solutions, we're going to have to get serious about the issue.We have ourselves to blame - we sent these guys to Washington for years and didn't hold them accountable for their actions. Times were good and we worried not enough about what these bozos were doing in our names.

Now we're up against it and we're reaping the consequences of our apathy. So fixing the problem is going to require some pain on everyone's part. Everyone needs to kick in a little more - and some more than others, but not until we see some credible action on spending reduction from Washington. We aren't going to pour more gas on the fire and watch merrily while Rome burns.

Anyone with an IQ greater than room temperture knows that this super committee idea is a joke - just wasting time, money, and stalling while allowing these idiots to do more finger pointing while things get incrementally worse.

I'm staunchly against not paying the Federal government one dime more than it absolutely needs to uphold their responsibilities. But this has gone too far and it has to be fixed.
I find your position here to be completely reasonable. I wish you were a Republican politician currently in Washington. But you aren't, and the ones who are there don't agree with you, unfortunately.
I'm not sure if Bronco mangled the bolded. I'm going to assume he did, and that what he meant was he's "staunchly against paying the Federal government one dime more than it absolutely needs to uphold their responsibilities." If that's what he meant, I don't see how that's any different than the conservatives who derailed the debt ceiling talks. It's a vague standard. I suspect whatever cuts are proposed, they will never be enough to activate this hypothetical support for taxes. Any government program with any level of waste will be used to rationalize holding tax increases hostage. But we've veered way off the subject of what a jackass Paul Krugman is with his silly economics.

 
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HUFFPOST

WASHINGTON -- The Obama campaign's point person in New Mexico recently sent an email to supporters defending the president's position on the debt deal and bashing the "Firebagger Lefty blogosphere," including the Nobel Prize winning New York Times columnist Paul Krugman. {snip}

The blog post that Sandoval thought was important enough to share with others harshly condemns Krugman and progressive bloggers who have been critical of Obama. From the 1,825-word post:

"Paul Krugman is a political rookie. At least he is when compared to President Obama. That's why he unleashed a screed as soon as word came about the debt ceiling compromise between President Obama and Congressional leaders - to, you know, avert an economic 9/11. Joining the ideologue spheres' pure, fanatic, indomitable hysteria, Krugman declares the deal a disaster - both political and economic - of course providing no evidence for the latter, which I find curious for this Nobel winning economist. He rides the coattails of the simplistic argument that spending cuts - any spending cuts - are bad for a fragile economy, ignoring wholeheartedly his own revious cheerleading for cutting, say, defense spending. But that was back in the day - all the way back in April of this year. [...]

No, the loudest screeching noise you hear coming from Krugman and the ideologue Left is, of course, Medicare. Oh, no, the President is agreeing to a Medicare trigger!!! Oh noes!!! Everybody freak out right now! But let's look at the deal again, shall we?"
:lmao:
 
HUFFPOST

WASHINGTON -- The Obama campaign's point person in New Mexico recently sent an email to supporters defending the president's position on the debt deal and bashing the "Firebagger Lefty blogosphere," including the Nobel Prize winning New York Times columnist Paul Krugman. {snip}

The blog post that Sandoval thought was important enough to share with others harshly condemns Krugman and progressive bloggers who have been critical of Obama. From the 1,825-word post:

"Paul Krugman is a political rookie. At least he is when compared to President Obama. That's why he unleashed a screed as soon as word came about the debt ceiling compromise between President Obama and Congressional leaders - to, you know, avert an economic 9/11. Joining the ideologue spheres' pure, fanatic, indomitable hysteria, Krugman declares the deal a disaster - both political and economic - of course providing no evidence for the latter, which I find curious for this Nobel winning economist. He rides the coattails of the simplistic argument that spending cuts - any spending cuts - are bad for a fragile economy, ignoring wholeheartedly his own revious cheerleading for cutting, say, defense spending. But that was back in the day - all the way back in April of this year. [...]

No, the loudest screeching noise you hear coming from Krugman and the ideologue Left is, of course, Medicare. Oh, no, the President is agreeing to a Medicare trigger!!! Oh noes!!! Everybody freak out right now! But let's look at the deal again, shall we?"
:lmao:
Doesn't surprise me that a moderate conservative like Obama thinks that Krugman is a "lefty". :shrug:
 
Doesn't surprise me that a moderate conservative like Obama thinks that Krugman is a "lefty". :shrug:
Doesn't surpise me that a far lefty like you thinks Obama is a moderate conservative.
:lmao: That's what we've come to - believing in equality, social justice, Keynesian economic principles, and progressive taxation = FAR LEFT.
You pretty much nailed it. Good for you.
:goodposting: :lmao:
 
Doesn't surprise me that a moderate conservative like Obama thinks that Krugman is a "lefty". :shrug:
Doesn't surpise me that a far lefty like you thinks Obama is a moderate conservative.
:lmao: That's what we've come to - believing in equality, social justice, Keynesian economic principles, and progressive taxation = FAR LEFT.
You pretty much nailed it. Good for you.
:lmao:
 
This thread needs a healthy dose of John Mauldin:

The Beginning of the Endgame

By John Mauldin | August 12, 2011

In this issue:

The Big Bang Moment

Bang, Indeed!

"It's the Economy, Dummkopf!"

The Long and Winding Road to Crisis

Are We Already in Recession?

So What Can We Do?

Home and then Ireland, London, and Geneva

I came away from Maine, and meeting with some of the most astute economists in the world, with a series of impressions that will be the core of this week's letter. On Friday night, S&P downgraded US debt, and of course I need to comment on that. But as we talked the next two days and into the nights, I came increasingly to the opinion that this is indeed the Beginning of the Endgame. I must admit it has come about faster than I thought. But that is the nature of these things. And so, with no "but first," let's jump right in.

The Big Bang Moment

I think it relevant to start off by quoting from my book Endgame, where I quote in turn from what I think is the most important book of the last decade, This Time is Different: Eight Centuries of Financial Folly, by Ken Rogoff and Carmen Reinhart. I truly urge you to read it. The book is consciously designed so you can read the first chapter and the last five and get the thrust of the work. You can order it from Amazon.com. (The Kindle edition is only $9.99 and makes a perfect companion to my book Endgame [shameless plug].) Quoting from my book:

"We are going to look at several quotes from [This Time is Different], as well as an extensive interview [the authors] graciously granted. We have also taken the great liberty of mixing paragraphs from various chapters that we feel are important. Please note that all the emphasis is our editorial license. Let's start by looking at part of their conclusion, which we think eloquently sums up the problems we face:

"'The lesson of history, then, is that even as institutions and policy makers improve, there will always be a temptation to stretch the limits. Just as an individual can go bankrupt no matter how rich she starts out, a financial system can collapse under the pressure of greed, politics, and profits no matter how well regulated it seems to be. Technology has changed, the height of humans has changed, and fashions have changed.

'Yet the ability of governments and investors to delude themselves, giving rise to periodic bouts of euphoria that usually end in tears, seems to have remained a constant. No careful reader of Friedman and Schwartz will be surprised by this lesson about the ability of governments to mismanage financial markets, a key theme of their analysis.

'As for financial markets, we have come full circle to the concept of financial fragility in economies with massive indebtedness. All too often, periods of heavy borrowing can take place

in a bubble and last for a surprisingly long time. But highly leveraged economies, particularly those in which continual rollover of short-term debt is sustained only by confidence in relatively illiquid underlying assets, seldom survive forever, particularly if leverage continues to grow unchecked.

'This time may seem different, but all too often a deeper look shows it is not. Encouragingly, history does point to warning signs that policy makers can look at to assess risk—if only they do not become too drunk with their credit bubble–fueled success and say, as their predecessors have for centuries, "This time is different."'

[back to my voice] "Sadly, the lesson is not a happy one. There are no good endings once you start down a deleveraging path. As I have been writing for several years, much of the entire developed world is now faced with choosing from among several bad choices, some being worse than others."

And this is key. Read it twice (at least!):

"'Perhaps more than anything else, failure to recognize the precariousness and fickleness of confidence—especially in cases in which large short-term debts need to be rolled over

continuously—is the key factor that gives rise to the this-time-is-different syndrome. Highly indebted governments, banks, or corporations can seem to be merrily rolling along for an extended period, when bang! — confidence collapses, lenders disappear, and a crisis hits.

'Economic theory tells us that it is precisely the fickle nature of confidence, including its dependence on the public's expectation of future events, which makes it so difficult to predict the timing of debt crises. High debt levels lead, in many mathematical economics models, to "multiple equilibria" in which the debt level might be sustained—or might not be. Economists do not have a terribly good idea of what kinds of events shift confidence and of how to concretely assess confidence vulnerability. What one does see, again and again, in the history of financial crises is that when an accident is waiting to happen, it eventually does. When countries become too deeply indebted, they are headed for trouble. When debt-fueled asset price explosions seem too good to be true, they probably are. But the exact timing can be very difficult to guess, and a crisis that seems imminent can sometimes take years to ignite.'"

Bang, Indeed!

When the subprime crisis started, we were told by numerous authorities (including Ben Bernanke) that the problems would be "contained." But by 2006 it was clear to anyone who studied the toxic instruments that the losses would be in the hundreds of billions. I estimated $400 billion, which just goes to show that I'm an optimist. That crisis spread to banks all over Europe and then back to the US. Authorities used every bullet in their guns, every legal means and –well let's be charitable, perhaps they pushed the rules a bit – to try and stem the tide. And then we had a "Lehman moment" and all at once the markets seemingly froze. It was "Bang!"

My sense is that the S&P downgrade is like that moment when we were told things would be contained. In and of itself, the downgrade is not that important. What did we learn that we did not already know? The US is headed for a financial crisis if they do not get the deficit under control? This is news?

But I think it forces S&P to take a very hard look at France, whose loss of AAA would bring into doubt the whole EFSF mechanism. And Spain and Italy must come under scrutiny if S&P's move in the US is not to be seen as politically motivated. The main result of the downgrade may not be here in the US but in Europe, where there are already issues. A series of downgrades (which are warranted if the US one was) would be traumatic.

My London partner Niels Jensen penned this observation:

"If France is downgraded, a number of French banks will almost certainly be downgraded, following which other European banks will face the same destiny. Such a scenario has the potential to cause calamity across Europe. The 90 European banks which recently went through the (so-called) stress test organized by the European Banking Authority need to roll a total of €5.4 trillion1 (!) of debt over the next 24 months. A massive amount even during the best of times. Probably undoable during times of stress.

"As Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, in consultation with Willem Buiter of Citigroup, pointed out in the Daily Telegraph over the weekend:

" '... the issue is not how long Italy and Spain can ride out the storm in bond markets. There would be a banking and insurance crisis long before sovereign defaults came into play, simply because the fall in bond prices on the secondary market is causing carnage to bank books (among other transmission mechanisms).'

"With its downgrade of U.S. sovereign debt, Standard and Poors has started a chain of events which can only make things worse in an already crisis-hit eurozone. For that reason, the decision to downgrade was not only badly timed but also ill considered; that it was probably justified is of little relevance at the moment."

My latest trip to Europe and discussions with friends in Maine, plus my reading, simply reinforces my sense that we are seeing Europe unravel, or at the very least come to a very important crossroads where they must make a fateful decision. And let's make no mistake, this is a demon of a problem of their own making. Monetary union without fiscal union will not work in a world where there are so many cultures and different traditions. But how does that work? How do you exorcise that demon?

Which leads me to a sidebar. Michael Lewis is one of the greatest writers of our time. He is just brilliant. He has a piece in the latest Vanity Fair on Germany and the crisis in Europe. It is rather long (about 15 pages in a Word doc) and makes some rather interesting (if odd) scatological references, trying to explain the German world view, so if you are of a delicate mindset, perhaps you should confine yourself to the few paragraphs I quote here. But I do suggest you set aside some time to read the entire piece. (You can read the whole thing at http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2011/09/europe-201109.) Here is the editor's intro to the piece:

"It's the Economy, Dummkopf!"

"With Greece and Ireland in economic shreds, while Portugal, Spain, and perhaps even Italy head south, only one nation can save Europe from financial Armageddon: a highly reluctant Germany. The ironies—like the fact that bankers from Düsseldorf were the ultimate patsies in Wall Street's con game—pile up quickly as Michael Lewis investigates German attitudes toward money, excrement, and the country's Nazi past, all of which help explain its peculiar new status."

And from the middle of the piece, these insights:

"Greeks are still refusing to pay their taxes, in other words. But it is only one of many Greek sins. 'They are also having a problem with the structural reform. Their labor market is changing—but not as fast as it needs to,' he continues. 'Due to the developments in the last 10 years, a similar job in Germany pays 55,000 euros. In Greece it is 70,000.' To get around pay restraints in the calendar year the Greek government simply paid employees a 13th and even 14th monthly salary—months that didn't exist. 'There needs to be a change of the relationship between people and the government,' he continues. 'It is not a task that can be done in three months. You need time.' He couldn't put it more bluntly: if the Greeks and the Germans are to coexist in a currency union, the Greeks need to change who they are.

"This is unlikely to happen soon enough to matter. The Greeks not only have massive debts but are still running big deficits. Trapped by an artificially strong currency, they cannot turn these deficits into surpluses, even if they do everything that outsiders ask them to do. Their exports, priced in euros, remain expensive. The German government wants the Greeks to slash the size of their government, but that will also slow economic growth and reduce tax revenues. And so one of two things must happen. Either Germans must agree to a new system in which they would be fiscally integrated with other European countries as Indiana is integrated with Mississippi: the tax dollars of ordinary Germans would go into a common coffer and be used to pay for the lifestyle of ordinary Greeks. Or the Greeks (and probably, eventually, every non-German) must introduce 'structural reform,' a euphemism for magically and radically transforming themselves into a people as efficient and productive as the Germans. The first solution is pleasant for Greeks but painful for Germans. The second solution is pleasant for Germans but painful, even suicidal, for Greeks.

"The only economically plausible scenario is that Germans, with a bit of help from a rapidly shrinking population of solvent European countries, suck it up, work harder, and pay for everyone else. But what is economically plausible appears to be politically unacceptable. The German people all know at least one fact about the euro: that before they agreed to trade in their deutsche marks their leaders promised them, explicitly, they would never be required to bail out other countries. That rule was created with the founding of the European Central Bank (E.C.B.)--and was violated a year ago. The German public is every day more upset by the violation--so upset that Chancellor Angela Merkel, who has a reputation for reading the public mood, hasn't even bothered to try to go before the German people to persuade them that it might be in their interests to help the Greeks.

"That is why Europe's money problems feel not just problematic but intractable. It's why Greeks are now mailing bombs to Merkel, and thugs in Berlin are hurling stones through the window of the Greek consulate. And it's why European leaders have done nothing but delay the inevitable reckoning, by scrambling every few months to find cash to plug the ever growing economic holes in Greece and Ireland and Portugal and praying that even bigger and more alarming holes in Spain, Italy, and even France refrain from revealing themselves.

Until now the European Central Bank, in Frankfurt, has been the main source of this cash. The E.C.B. was designed to behave with the same discipline as the German Bundesbank, but it has morphed into something very different. Since the start of the financial crisis it has bought, outright, something like $80 billion of Greek and Irish and Portuguese government bonds, and lent another $450 billion or so to various European governments and European banks, accepting virtually any collateral, including Greek government bonds.

"But the E.C.B. has a rule--and the Germans think the rule very important--that they cannot accept as collateral bonds classified by the U.S. ratings agencies as in default. Given that they once had a rule against buying bonds outright in the open market, and another rule against government bailouts, it's a little odd that they have gotten so hung up on this technicality. But they have. If Greece defaults on its debt, the E.C.B. will not only lose a pile on its holdings of Greek bonds but must return the bonds to the European banks, and the European banks must fork over $450 billion in cash. The E.C.B. itself might face insolvency, which would mean turning for funds to its solvent member governments, led by Germany. (The senior official at the Bundesbank told me they already have thought about how to deal with the request. 'We have 3,400 tons of gold,' he said. 'We are the only country that has not sold its original allotment from the [late 1940s]. So we are covered to some extent.') The bigger problem with a Greek default is that it might well force other European countries and their banks into default. At the very least it would create panic and confusion in the market for both sovereign and bank debt, at a time when a lot of banks and at least two big European debt-ridden countries, Italy and Spain, cannot afford panic and confusion.

"At the bottom of this unholy mess, from the point of view of the German Finance Ministry, is the unwillingness, or inability, of the Greeks to change their behavior.

"That was what the currency union always implied: entire peoples had to change their ways of life. Conceived as a tool for integrating Germany into Europe, and preventing Germans from dominating others, it has become the opposite. For better or for worse, the Germans now own Europe. If the rest of Europe is to continue to enjoy the benefits of what is essentially a German currency, they need to become more German. And so, once again, all sorts of people who would rather not think about what it means to be 'German' are compelled to do so."

The Long and Winding Road to Crisis

As I will show below, the US (indeed much of the world) is on the edge of yet another recession. It will not take much to push us into one, just a small shock, like say a banking crisis in Europe, alluded to by Lewis and something I have been writing about for a year.

That being said, the apparent willingness of the Germans to come up with creative ideas (and to get the French to go along) to fund the various nations in crisis, in order to avoid technical defaults, is somewhat amazing. And if there was an election today and the socialists and Greens won in Germany, they would be even more open to the idea of a eurobond, to be somehow guaranteed by member countries. The current EFSF can deal with Greece, Ireland, and Portugal until maybe 2013, and the next version will be large enough to deal with Spain, unless of course the Eurozone elites decide to call it quits, which is something they have not shown the slightest hint of doing. What is more likely is that we lurch from crisis to crisis, with each crisis somehow being averted by throwing more money at it, until the debt of the AAA guarantors like France (and to a lesser extent Italy) starts to be called into question by the markets.

Remember, the demographics of Spain and Italy are horrendous, soon to be on a level with Japan. The government portion of GDP in France is already 53% (not a typo!) and is only going to get worse as aging Boomers have been promised monster benefits that simply cannot be provided without Greek-level austerities. Their future numbers are worse than those of the US.

This can go on for a long time, or it can end in a Bang! moment this year. That is the nature of the lesson from Rogoff and Reinhart. Look at Japan. They took what were functionally insolvent banks and kept them going for decades. Where there is a political will there can be a way … but there will be an Endgame. That is also the lesson we learn from history. Japan will not be able to stave off a crisis of major proportions forever. Neither will Europe, unless they all become Germans in their national accounting.

Are We Already in Recession?

My friend Barry Ritholtz posted the above question today, and wrote:

"Bloomberg reported today that " Consumer Sentiment Plunged to Three-Decade Low." That sent me scurrying to find some charts, and I ended up liking the two from UBS strategist Andy Lees, at bottom.

"The first one is an overlay the University of Michigan consumer confidence index vs the Conference Board's data. The second chart shows the long term history of the Conference Board data. At an implied level of 43.37 we would be in recession now; not only that but a deep recession.

"As the charts show, the ABC index has diverged from the Conference Board data for some time now. The correlation between consumer confidence and recession might not hold this time - although that would be the first split for 40 plus years. There is also an implication from this data series that we are already in recession. Given yesterday's data showing both imports and exports falling, we may have an implied Q2 GDP revised lower by 0.8% to 0.5% annualized growth - putting Q2 into the negative category.

"Hence, it is not unfeasible that we could be the verge of recession."

And that brings me to a chart I asked Rich Yamarone (chief econ type at Bloomberg) to update for me. Again, it is about the horrific consumer confidence number that came in today, but this time it is correlated with GDP. As you can see, there is a close correlation. With GDP growth of less than 1% for the last six months, asking if we are close to or already in a recession is not a question without merit. And either way, this does not bode well for the long-term direction of stocks and corporate earnings. Consumer confidence is really saying that a recession is in the cards. Maybe it is just weariness with the political malaise (which would be understandable), but we should pay attention.

And while I won't print the chart again, every time year-over-year GDP growth falls below 2%, we end up in a recession. It is now 1.6%. Past performance is not indicative of future recessions, but the trend is not in our favor.

So What Can We Do?

The economy is getting weaker. What can we do? The short answer is, sadly, not much. There were some in Maine who argued for more fiscal stimulus, but I think there is little political will for another major stimulus program. The last one got us up to 3% GDP growth before we fell back, and all we got was a major debt bill and a higher level of government spending. I fully get that lowering government spending will have negative short-term effects, but we are at the point in the Endgame where we must bite the bullet.

And fiscal policy is becoming a drag on the entire Eurozone, as well as Great Britain. Austerity may be warranted, but is has consequences.

What about QE3? Let's look at how that last move turned out. We ended up with more money on the Fed's balance sheet and higher commodity prices. The NFIB survey I cited last week showed there was no great demand on the part of small business for loans. 91% had what they needed. What they want are sales and customers! The trade data yesterday showed exports fell by over $2.3 billion last month. That suggests a slowing world economy. Which is borne out by numerous other indicators.

One has to applaud the Chinese for allowing their currency to rise by a significant (for them) amount this week, as almost every other government (including Switzerland) wants a weaker currency. Everyone can't devalue at the same time, just as everyone cannot export their way out of this crisis. Someone has to buy!

In short, there are no easy solutions. We have just about used up all our "rabbits in the hat" as far as fiscal and monetary policy are concerned. We now need to focus on what we can do to get out of the way of the private sector, so it can find ways to create new businesses and jobs. And that means figuring out how to get money to new businesses, because that is where net new jobs come from. But that takes time – and is a subject for another letter, as it is time to hit the send button.

Home and then Ireland, London, and Geneva

I am home for (can you believe it?) more than 40 days, which, even with the Texas heat, I need. Then I'm off to Ireland, Geneva, and a few days in London. I am sure I will be making at least one presentation in London.

Maine was more serious this time. I think more of us realize that things are going to get harder and more volatile. While our group is not exactly indigent, we do get what all this means. On Sunday night, Trey came to me. He had been listening. "Dad, it is good for you that you wrote about all this already and are right, but I don't think it's so good for the rest of us." And he is right.

Book sales have been quite steady, as more and more people are realizing that we truly are at the Endgame, and as we try to lay out how it plays out for us all. There is a lot of data in the book, and we back up our predictions with sources. As one reader wrote:

"John, I hope all is well. I just wanted to drop you a note and tell you how much I am enjoying Endgame. As a guy with a degree in economics, I read a lot of books trying to explain macroeconomics of the times, but I have to tell you this is the single best book I have read explaining how macroeconomics works to regular people like me. You have done a great service to your readers, as you do every day. Best, Steve"

You can read reviews and buy it on Amazon.

It really is time to hit the send button and find something to eat. I am starved – and maybe I'll catch a late movie. Have a great week.

Your glad God invented air conditioning analyst,

John Mauldin

John@FrontlineThoughts.com

Copyright 2011 John Mauldin. All Rights Reserved.
You can join his e-newsletter if you want to see the charts.
 
Doesn't surprise me that a moderate conservative like Obama thinks that Krugman is a "lefty". :shrug:
Doesn't surpise me that a far lefty like you thinks Obama is a moderate conservative.
:lmao: That's what we've come to - believing in equality, peace, social justice, Keynesian economic principles, and progressive taxation = FAR LEFT.
If you are going to argue you aren't far left around here you should avoid using 5 words that could win Glenn Beck bingo.
 
Bernanke’s Perry ProblemBy PAUL KRUGMANPublished: August 25, 2011 As I write this, investors around the world are anxiously awaiting Ben Bernanke’s speech at the annual Fed gathering at Jackson Hole, Wyo. They want to know whether Mr. Bernanke, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, will unveil new policies that might lift the U.S. economy out of what is looking more and more like a quasi-permanent state of depressed demand and high unemployment.But I’ll be shocked if Mr. Bernanke proposes anything significant — that is, anything likely to make any serious dent in unemployment or offer any serious boost to growth.Why don’t I expect much from Mr. Bernanke? In two words: Rick Perry.O.K., I don’t mean that Mr. Perry, the governor of Texas, is personally standing in the way of effective monetary policy. Not yet, anyway. Instead, I’m using Mr. Perry — who has famously threatened Mr. Bernanke with dire personal consequences if he pursues expansionary monetary policy before the 2012 election — as a symbol of the political intimidation that is killing our last remaining hope for economic recovery.To see what I’m talking about, let’s ask what policies the Fed actually should be pursuing right now.Obviously, the U.S. economy remains deeply depressed, and under normal conditions we would expect the Fed to pump it up by cutting interest rates. But the interest rates the Fed normally targets — basically rates on short-term U.S. government debt — are already near zero. So what can the Fed do?Well, in 2000 an economist named Ben Bernanke offered a number of proposals for policy at the “zero lower bound.” True, the paper was focused on policy in Japan, not the United States. But America is now very much in a Japan-type economic trap, only more acute. So we learn a lot by asking why Ben Bernanke 2011 isn’t taking the advice of Ben Bernanke 2000.Back then, Mr. Bernanke suggested that the Bank of Japan could get Japan’s economy moving with a variety of unconventional policies. These could include: purchases of long-term government debt (to push interest rates, and hence private borrowing costs, down); an announcement that short-term interest rates would stay near zero for an extended period, to further reduce long-term rates; an announcement that the bank was seeking moderate inflation, “setting a target in the 3-4% range for inflation, to be maintained for a number of years,” which would encourage borrowing and discourage people from hoarding cash; and “an attempt to achieve substantial depreciation of the yen,” that is, to reduce the yen’s value in terms of other currencies.Was Mr. Bernanke on the right track? I think so — as well I should, since his paper was partly based on my own earlier work. So why isn’t the Fed pursuing the agenda its own chairman once recommended for Japan?Part of the answer is internal dissension. Two weeks ago, the committee that sets monetary policy declared that conditions “are likely to warrant exceptionally low levels for the federal funds rate at least through mid-2013” — that is, it didn’t even promise to keep rates low, it just offered an observation about what the state of the economy is likely to be. Yet, even so, the statement faced serious internal opposition, with three inflation hawks on the committee voting against it and calling it a mistake.The larger answer, however, is outside political pressure. Last year, the Fed actually did institute a policy of buying long-term debt, generally known as “quantitative easing” (don’t ask). But it faced a political backlash out of all proportion to its modest effect on the economy, culminating in Mr. Perry’s declaration that any further monetary easing before the 2012 election would be “almost treasonous,” and that if Mr. Bernanke went ahead and did it, “we would treat him pretty ugly down in Texas.”Now just imagine the reaction if the Fed were to act on the other and arguably more important parts of that Bernanke 2000 agenda, targeting a higher rate of inflation and welcoming a weaker dollar. With prominent Republicans like Representative Paul Ryan already denouncing policies that allegedly “debase the dollar,” a political firestorm would be guaranteed.So now you see why I don’t expect any substantive policy announcements at Jackson Hole. Back in 2000, Mr. Bernanke accused the Bank of Japan of suffering from “self-induced paralysis”; well, now the Fed is suffering from externally induced paralysis. In effect, it has been politically intimidated into standing by while the economy stagnates. And that’s a very, very bad thing.Political opposition has already crippled fiscal policy; instead of helping to create jobs, the federal government is pulling back, acting as a drag on output and employment.With the Fed also intimidated into inaction, it’s hard to see any end to the ongoing economic disaster.
Related (from the blog):
Academic Debate, Real Consequences (Wonkish)With all eyes on Jackson Hole, it may be worth talking a bit about the intellectual history that lies behind some of the policy debate.So, let’s start with the state of monetary policy orthodoxy circa 1997 or so. By that time, most macroeconomists had come to believe that central banks could and should bear the whole burden of stabilizing the economy. No need for active fiscal policy (although maybe let the automatic stabilizers stay in place), just let Uncle Alan do his thing, and we’ll have acceptable stability. I shared this view.But then some of us started to notice Japan, which had cut rates to near zero and was still sliding into deflation. Could this really be the hoary old liquidity trap come back to haunt us again?Many economists just dismissed the Japanese example, asserting either that it reflected very special circumstances — zombie banks! — or that the Bank of Japan just wasn’t trying hard enough. I guess I was the first to suggest that Japan actually showed that the liquidity trap was not a myth, after all. The way I got to that conclusion, by the way, was as follows: I set out to prove, using a model with all the eyes dotted and teas crossed, that monetary expansion would always work even at a zero interest rate. But the model said just the opposite. And so I was forced to acknowledge that the liquidity trap was real, and to think through the implications, which I did in this 1998 paper (pdf).What that paper suggested was that the only way for monetary policy to be effective in a liquidity trap was via expectations: the central bank had to convince the public that it would sustain monetary expansion even after the trap was over. This idea was then expanded on by others, notably by Eggertsson and Woodford (pdf), and also in work by Lars Svensson. By the way, the leading Japan worriers were all at Princeton in 2000-2001.However, one of the Japan worriers, a guy by the name of Ben Bernanke, had a somewhat different take (pdf). He believed that the Fed could gain considerable traction not so much by changing expectations as through the direct effect of nonstandard open-market operations. I was skeptical, as was Mike Woodford. But would the different views ever get tested?Well, here we are: Ben Bernanke is now Master of the Universe Fed chairman, and he has just conducted an experiment — QE2 — in asset purchases. That experiment is now widely viewed as a disappointment; to the extent it worked, it did so mainly by changing expectations, and once markets realized that the Fed wasn’t actually going to sustain expansion, the expectational effects wore off.So now we have Woodford (not a household name, but one of our leading, perhaps the leading, macro theorist working now) arguing in the FT that Bernanke needs to stop fiddling with balance sheets and start making explicit announcements about future policy. The key thing to understand, reading Woodford, is that this isn’t some shoot-from-the-hip piece, it’s the culmination of a debate that goes back more than a decade.Meanwhile, Cullen Roche makes much the same argument, although he insists that you need MMT to make it, which would be news to Woodford (and me).I’ve labeled this post wonkish, because it is. But this is really important. And as FT Alphaville says, all the fears about QE have been misplaced. The danger isn’t that it’s wildly inflationary; it is that it’s symbolic rather than real, at a time when we desperately need substance.
 
Setting Their Hair on FireBy PAUL KRUGMANPublished: September 8, 2011 First things first: I was favorably surprised by the new Obama jobs plan, which is significantly bolder and better than I expected. It’s not nearly as bold as the plan I’d want in an ideal world. But if it actually became law, it would probably make a significant dent in unemployment.Of course, it isn’t likely to become law, thanks to G.O.P. opposition. Nor is anything else likely to happen that will do much to help the 14 million Americans out of work. And that is both a tragedy and an outrage.Before I get to the Obama plan, let me talk about the other important economic speech of the week, which was given by Charles Evans, the president of the Federal Reserve of Chicago. Mr. Evans said, forthrightly, what some of us have been hoping to hear from Fed officials for years now.As Mr. Evans pointed out, the Fed, both as a matter of law and as a matter of social responsibility, should try to keep both inflation and unemployment low — and while inflation seems likely to stay near or below the Fed’s target of around 2 percent, unemployment remains extremely high.So how should the Fed be reacting? Mr. Evans: “Imagine that inflation was running at 5 percent against our inflation objective of 2 percent. Is there a doubt that any central banker worth their salt would be reacting strongly to fight this high inflation rate? No, there isn’t any doubt. They would be acting as if their hair was on fire. We should be similarly energized about improving conditions in the labor market.”But the Fed’s hair is manifestly not on fire, nor do most politicians seem to see any urgency about the situation. These days, the best — or at any rate the alleged wise men and women who are supposed to be looking after the nation’s welfare — lack all conviction, while the worst, as represented by much of the G.O.P., are filled with a passionate intensity. So the unemployed are being abandoned.O.K., about the Obama plan: It calls for about $200 billion in new spending — much of it on things we need in any case, like school repair, transportation networks, and avoiding teacher layoffs — and $240 billion in tax cuts. That may sound like a lot, but it actually isn’t. The lingering effects of the housing bust and the overhang of household debt from the bubble years are creating a roughly $1 trillion per year hole in the U.S. economy, and this plan — which wouldn’t deliver all its benefits in the first year — would fill only part of that hole. And it’s unclear, in particular, how effective the tax cuts would be at boosting spending.Still, the plan would be a lot better than nothing, and some of its measures, which are specifically aimed at providing incentives for hiring, might produce relatively a large employment bang for the buck. As I said, it’s much bolder and better than I expected. President Obama’s hair may not be on fire, but it’s definitely smoking; clearly and gratifyingly, he does grasp how desperate the jobs situation is.But his plan isn’t likely to become law, thanks to Republican opposition. And it’s worth noting just how much that opposition has hardened over time, even as the plight of the unemployed has worsened.In early 2009, as the new Obama administration tried to come to grips with the crisis it inherited, you heard two main lines from critics on the right. First, they argued that we should rely on monetary policy rather than fiscal policy — that is, that the job of fighting unemployment should be left to the Fed. Second, they argued that fiscal actions should take the form of tax cuts rather than temporary spending.Now, however, leading Republicans are against tax cuts — at least if they benefit working Americans rather than rich people and corporations.And they’re against monetary policy, too. In Wednesday night’s Republican presidential debate, Mitt Romney declared that he would seek a replacement for Ben Bernanke, the Fed chairman, essentially because Mr. Bernanke has tried to do something (though not enough) about unemployment. And that makes Mr. Romney a moderate by G.O.P. standards, since Rick Perry, his main rival for the presidential nomination, has suggested that Mr. Bernanke should be treated “pretty ugly.”So, at this point, leading Republicans are basically against anything that might help the unemployed. Yes, Mr. Romney has issued a glossy, well-produced “jobs plan,” but it might best be described as 59 bullet points with nothing there — and certainly nothing to justify his assertion, bordering on megalomania, that he would create no fewer than 11 million jobs in four years.The good news in all this is that by going bigger and bolder than expected, Mr. Obama may finally have set the stage for a political debate about job creation. For, in the end, nothing will be done until the American people demand action.
 
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/11/the-years-of-shame/?smid=tw-NytimesKrugman&seid=auto

The Years of Shame

Is it just me, or are the 9/11 commemorations oddly subdued?

Actually, I don’t think it’s me, and it’s not really that odd.

What happened after 9/11 — and I think even people on the right know this, whether they admit it or not — was deeply shameful. Te atrocity should have been a unifying event, but instead it became a wedge issue. Fake heroes like Bernie Kerik, Rudy Giuliani, and, yes, George W. Bush raced to cash in on the horror. And then the attack was used to justify an unrelated war the neocons wanted to fight, for all the wrong reasons.

A lot of other people behaved badly. How many of our professional pundits — people who should have understood very well what was happening — took the easy way out, turning a blind eye to the corruption and lending their support to the hijacking of the atrocity?

The memory of 9/11 has been irrevocably poisoned; it has become an occasion for shame. And in its heart, the nation knows it.

I’m not going to allow comments on this post, for obvious reasons.
Wow. Krugman sinks to a new low, even for him.
 
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/11/the-years-of-shame/?smid=tw-NytimesKrugman&seid=auto

The Years of ShameIs it just me, or are the 9/11 commemorations oddly subdued?Actually, I don’t think it’s me, and it’s not really that odd.What happened after 9/11 — and I think even people on the right know this, whether they admit it or not — was deeply shameful. Te atrocity should have been a unifying event, but instead it became a wedge issue. Fake heroes like Bernie Kerik, Rudy Giuliani, and, yes, George W. Bush raced to cash in on the horror. And then the attack was used to justify an unrelated war the neocons wanted to fight, for all the wrong reasons.A lot of other people behaved badly. How many of our professional pundits — people who should have understood very well what was happening — took the easy way out, turning a blind eye to the corruption and lending their support to the hijacking of the atrocity?The memory of 9/11 has been irrevocably poisoned; it has become an occasion for shame. And in its heart, the nation knows it.I’m not going to allow comments on this post, for obvious reasons.
Wow. Krugman sinks to a new low, even for him.
No, this is pretty much standard Krugman. He's a slimeball.
 
'IvanKaramazov said:
'Soonerman said:
http://krugman.blogs...ugman&seid=auto

The Years of Shame

Is it just me, or are the 9/11 commemorations oddly subdued?

Actually, I don't think it's me, and it's not really that odd.

What happened after 9/11 — and I think even people on the right know this, whether they admit it or not — was deeply shameful. Te atrocity should have been a unifying event, but instead it became a wedge issue. Fake heroes like Bernie Kerik, Rudy Giuliani, and, yes, George W. Bush raced to cash in on the horror. And then the attack was used to justify an unrelated war the neocons wanted to fight, for all the wrong reasons.

A lot of other people behaved badly. How many of our professional pundits — people who should have understood very well what was happening — took the easy way out, turning a blind eye to the corruption and lending their support to the hijacking of the atrocity?

The memory of 9/11 has been irrevocably poisoned; it has become an occasion for shame. And in its heart, the nation knows it.

I'm not going to allow comments on this post, for obvious reasons.
Wow. Krugman sinks to a new low, even for him.
No, this is pretty much standard Krugman. He's a slimeball.
Thought it was interesting he didn't allow comments on his column.
 
'IvanKaramazov said:
'Soonerman said:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/11/the-years-of-shame/?smid=tw-NytimesKrugman&seid=auto

The Years of ShameIs it just me, or are the 9/11 commemorations oddly subdued?Actually, I don’t think it’s me, and it’s not really that odd.What happened after 9/11 — and I think even people on the right know this, whether they admit it or not — was deeply shameful. Te atrocity should have been a unifying event, but instead it became a wedge issue. Fake heroes like Bernie Kerik, Rudy Giuliani, and, yes, George W. Bush raced to cash in on the horror. And then the attack was used to justify an unrelated war the neocons wanted to fight, for all the wrong reasons.A lot of other people behaved badly. How many of our professional pundits — people who should have understood very well what was happening — took the easy way out, turning a blind eye to the corruption and lending their support to the hijacking of the atrocity?The memory of 9/11 has been irrevocably poisoned; it has become an occasion for shame. And in its heart, the nation knows it.I’m not going to allow comments on this post, for obvious reasons.
Wow. Krugman sinks to a new low, even for him.
No, this is pretty much standard Krugman. He's a slimeball.
It is writing like that above that makes me discount everything he says even within his field of expertise (and that is said in that I have enjoyed some of his books).
 
'IvanKaramazov said:
'Soonerman said:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/11/the-years-of-shame/?smid=tw-NytimesKrugman&seid=auto

The Years of ShameIs it just me, or are the 9/11 commemorations oddly subdued?Actually, I don’t think it’s me, and it’s not really that odd.What happened after 9/11 — and I think even people on the right know this, whether they admit it or not — was deeply shameful. Te atrocity should have been a unifying event, but instead it became a wedge issue. Fake heroes like Bernie Kerik, Rudy Giuliani, and, yes, George W. Bush raced to cash in on the horror. And then the attack was used to justify an unrelated war the neocons wanted to fight, for all the wrong reasons.A lot of other people behaved badly. How many of our professional pundits — people who should have understood very well what was happening — took the easy way out, turning a blind eye to the corruption and lending their support to the hijacking of the atrocity?The memory of 9/11 has been irrevocably poisoned; it has become an occasion for shame. And in its heart, the nation knows it.I’m not going to allow comments on this post, for obvious reasons.
Wow. Krugman sinks to a new low, even for him.
No, this is pretty much standard Krugman. He's a slimeball.
It is writing like that above that makes me discount everything he says even within his field of expertise (and that is said in that I have enjoyed some of his books).
Why does that bother you guys so much? Sure, it's a pretty partisan/liberal opinion, but it's fairly commonly held, that the conservative leadership used these attacks to carry out nation building in the middle east, under the guise of a war on terror. They co-opted the memory of 9-11 to do so, and in that light, Krugman can't look at the events the same.Only to a very small degree do I agree with him, and it's mainly on the issue that the 9-11 event was used as a pretense to go to war with Iraq, but I don't look back on it with shame, and I think he's off-base mentioning that aspect of it. But, all things considered, I don't find his comments to be particularly "slimeballish".
 
'IvanKaramazov said:
'Soonerman said:
http://krugman.blogs...ugman&seid=auto

The Years of Shame

Is it just me, or are the 9/11 commemorations oddly subdued?

Actually, I don't think it's me, and it's not really that odd.

What happened after 9/11 — and I think even people on the right know this, whether they admit it or not — was deeply shameful. Te atrocity should have been a unifying event, but instead it became a wedge issue. Fake heroes like Bernie Kerik, Rudy Giuliani, and, yes, George W. Bush raced to cash in on the horror. And then the attack was used to justify an unrelated war the neocons wanted to fight, for all the wrong reasons.

A lot of other people behaved badly. How many of our professional pundits — people who should have understood very well what was happening — took the easy way out, turning a blind eye to the corruption and lending their support to the hijacking of the atrocity?

The memory of 9/11 has been irrevocably poisoned; it has become an occasion for shame. And in its heart, the nation knows it.

I'm not going to allow comments on this post, for obvious reasons.
Wow. Krugman sinks to a new low, even for him.
No, this is pretty much standard Krugman. He's a slimeball.
It is writing like that above that makes me discount everything he says even within his field of expertise (and that is said in that I have enjoyed some of his books).
Why does that bother you guys so much? Sure, it's a pretty partisan/liberal opinion, but it's fairly commonly held, that the conservative leadership used these attacks to carry out nation building in the middle east, under the guise of a war on terror. They co-opted the memory of 9-11 to do so, and in that light, Krugman can't look at the events the same.

Only to a very small degree do I agree with him, and it's mainly on the issue that the 9-11 event was used as a pretense to go to war with Iraq, but I don't look back on it with shame, and I think he's off-base mentioning that aspect of it. But, all things considered, I don't find his comments to be particularly "slimeballish".
That's the biggest bunch of BS I've seen from your posts yet. It's a commonly held belief by liberals so out of touch with reality that they would believe anything as long as it made conservatives look bad.
 
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'IvanKaramazov said:
'Soonerman said:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/11/the-years-of-shame/?smid=tw-NytimesKrugman&seid=auto

The Years of Shame

Is it just me, or are the 9/11 commemorations oddly subdued?

Actually, I don’t think it’s me, and it’s not really that odd.

What happened after 9/11 — and I think even people on the right know this, whether they admit it or not — was deeply shameful. Te atrocity should have been a unifying event, but instead it became a wedge issue. Fake heroes like Bernie Kerik, Rudy Giuliani, and, yes, George W. Bush raced to cash in on the horror. And then the attack was used to justify an unrelated war the neocons wanted to fight, for all the wrong reasons.

A lot of other people behaved badly. How many of our professional pundits — people who should have understood very well what was happening — took the easy way out, turning a blind eye to the corruption and lending their support to the hijacking of the atrocity?

The memory of 9/11 has been irrevocably poisoned; it has become an occasion for shame. And in its heart, the nation knows it.

I’m not going to allow comments on this post, for obvious reasons.
Wow. Krugman sinks to a new low, even for him.
No, this is pretty much standard Krugman. He's a slimeball.
It is writing like that above that makes me discount everything he says even within his field of expertise (and that is said in that I have enjoyed some of his books).
Why does that bother you guys so much? Sure, it's a pretty partisan/liberal opinion, but it's fairly commonly held, that the conservative leadership used these attacks to carry out nation building in the middle east, under the guise of a war on terror. They co-opted the memory of 9-11 to do so, and in that light, Krugman can't look at the events the same.

Only to a very small degree do I agree with him, and it's mainly on the issue that the 9-11 event was used as a pretense to go to war with Iraq, but I don't look back on it with shame, and I think he's off-base mentioning that aspect of it. But, all things considered, I don't find his comments to be particularly "slimeballish".
Seriously? If it a "commonly held" belief on the left that Bush and Giuliani are basically war criminals and war profiteers, then that means a big percent of the population is tinfoilers that make the birthers look like the model of comity.
 
What makes you think that Bush didn't take advantage of 9-11 to wage war on a country - Iraq - having little to do with it?

 
What makes you think that Bush didn't take advantage of 9-11 to wage war on a country - Iraq - having little to do with it?
I don't know. I'm pretty funny that way. I'm going to need pretty substantial proof (or in this case any proof, since Krugman apparently can't be bothered with actually presenting any) before I accuse someone of such a heinous crime.
 
Ok then let's look at it this way - what reason did bush have for going to war? Is Curveball the entirety of the reason he went?

 
Ok then let's look at it this way - what reason did bush have for going to war? Is Curveball the entirety of the reason he went?
I don't know. I seem to have misplaced all my copies of the relevant top secret national security briefings from that time.Seriously, what kind of question is that? You are just admitting that you are willing to accuse someone of one of the most terrible crimes imaginable based on nothing but speculation. My standards require something a little more substantive than that.
 
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:thumbup:

3.5 Out of 4A moment of self-reflection: to what extent has this slump played out the way I thought it would?I'd think of myself as having held, from early days, four main views that were at odds with a substantial number of other commentators. They were:1. The slump would be very prolonged, with an extended period of jobless recovery.2. As long as we were in the liquidity trap, interest rates would stay low despite large budget deficits.3. Also, as long as we were in a liquidity trap, large increases in the monetary base would — as in the case of Japan — matter not at all for inflation or nominal GDP.4. Sustained high unemployment would keep wages and core inflation low, and quite likely push us toward Japan-style deflation.On the first three I think I was completely right. On the last, nominal wages have proved much more resistant to falling than I expected; I should have taken the downward nominal rigidity notion much more seriously. In general, I should have realized that we know less about wage and price determination under conditions of high unemployment than we do about savings, investment, and the liquidity trap. If we are going to have Japan-type deflation, it obviously won't happen for quite a while.But compared with the people predicting a V-shaped recovery, soaring rates, and/or hyperinflation by 2010, not too bad. I'd put it at 3.5 out of 4.
You might be wrong on number 3 unless you live on a diet of Little Caesar pizzas. Energy and food costs are inflating, but inflation is hidden because of how it is measured.
So if the numbers don't provide the inflation you want, you get to say it's there but we just can't see it. That's great.
Or you do what the governemnt does and change the way you measure it.
 
I don't know. I seem to have misplaced all my copies of the relevant top secret national security briefings from that time.Seriously, what kind of question is that? You are just admitting that you are willing to accuse someone of one of the most terrible crimes imaginable based on nothing but speculation. My standards require something a little more substantive than that.
I'm saying that people act through their own biases. And just perhaps Bush got the (flimsy) evidence he was looking for to support a preconceived notion. And I'm also saying I don't buy every story fed to me by the government. They all have a motive. What makes you so prepared to believe whatever they say? Are you really naive???
 

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