What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

***PGA Championship*** - Like DJ on wknd, thread fading fast (1 Viewer)

Matt Kuchar, Henrik Stenson & Jimmy Walker are in the BGTNWAM conversation.

Does Walker ever play good after they leave the

west coast? Seems like every year he leads the FedEx in February & then doesn't do jack ####.
All of them are on the tail end of their careers and none have come as close to DJ in the majors or won as much as he has on the PGA tour. They can be in the conversation I guess but probably not past the first minute or so.
 
As a golf fan i was really happy to see day win it. He was due. Also very touching to see tge emotion come out, choked me up a bit. Great golf

 
Jimmy Walker isn't in the tail end of his career.

Day isn't Gary Player yet. Rory is Jack. Speith Arnie. Bunch of Millers right now.

 
Just finished watching from dvr. Damn if the recording didn't stop after Day hit his second onto the 18th green. I'm going to have to guess he was able to hold on and win, lol.

 
Jimmy Walker isn't in the tail end of his career.

Day isn't Gary Player yet. Rory is Jack. Speith Arnie. Bunch of Millers right now.
Walker is 36 years old and been on tour for 14 years. He has been a borderline pro for most of his career, almost never qualifying for majors until his game had a sudden jump in improvement in the last couple of years. He had a great 2014 for some of his pedigree but his career overall hasn't been much. It is a young man's game and Walker isn't going to be around major events for more than a couple of more years. Definitely on the tail end of a somewhat mediocre career.

 
Maybe the most fun I've ever had watching a major that wasn't particularly close. Having Day and Spieth atop the leaderboard helped but the play was also incredibly entertaining. I know other folks enjoy the challenge of the US Open and it's great that they do something like that once a year but I'll take guys throwing darts at the pin over impressive scrambles to save par any day. Great course, too.

 
Matt Kuchar, Henrik Stenson & Jimmy Walker are in the BGTNWAM conversation.

Does Walker ever play good after they leave the

west coast? Seems like every year he leads the FedEx in February & then doesn't do jack ####.
All of them are on the tail end of their careers
Who is on the tail end of their careers?
Yeah, who ever heard of a golfer being competitive in his 40s, amiright?

Stenson is such a great ball striker. One of these days he'll win a major, even though he is getting close to 40.

Kuchar is just too damn nice. ;) Not quite Minnesota nice but close. Reminds me of Stricker - it would be inexplicable if he didn't win a major, but it happens sometimes. Monty (who is way more likeable as a senior and color commentator) was such a great player, but never got it done in a grand slam event.

 
Matt Kuchar, Henrik Stenson & Jimmy Walker are in the BGTNWAM conversation.

Does Walker ever play good after they leave the

west coast? Seems like every year he leads the FedEx in February & then doesn't do jack ####.
All of them are on the tail end of their careers
Who is on the tail end of their careers?
Yeah, who ever heard of a golfer being competitive in his 40s, amiright?

Stenson is such a great ball striker. One of these days he'll win a major, even though he is getting close to 40.

Kuchar is just too damn nice. ;) Not quite Minnesota nice but close. Reminds me of Stricker - it would be inexplicable if he didn't win a major, but it happens sometimes. Monty (who is way more likeable as a senior and color commentator) was such a great player, but never got it done in a grand slam event.
Age matters in golf and the reality is that core years for golfers is roughly 25-38. Obviously golfers can play well into later life but in terms of being in their prime they tend to fall off in their late 30s. Perhaps we are arguing semantics but I feel if a golfer is past their prime you can consider it the tail end of their career.

Does age really matter in golf? Yes, it doeshttp://www.golfchannel.com/news/joe-posnanski/does-age-really-matter-golf-yes-it-does/

For a while, Peppermint Patty from the Peanuts cartoons believed that she had a message she was meant to spread throughout the world. That critical message was this: A ball hit in the air into foul ground behind third base is the shortstop’s ball. It is important. And it is true.

For a few years now, I feel like I’ve had a message, too, one few people seem to buy. The message is this: Professional golfers – like every other athlete – age at a much, much faster pace than you want to believe.

I’ll throw some numbers at you in a minute, but first let’s review. A few years ago (and probably too often since then), I wrote that I didn’t think Tiger Woods would break Jack Nicklaus’ record of 18 major championship victories. I didn’t write that with any joy – I’d love to be wrong and watch Woods break the record, because it would be a fantastic sports story. But the conclusion seemed obvious. I looked at a little bit at the history of golf and realized that what people kept saying about how golfers age more slowly than all other athletes just wasn’t true.

“Tiger will be contending at majors until he’s 50,” people would tell me.

No he won’t.

“Golfers are still at their peak in their late 30s and 40s,” they said.

No they’re not.

“The average age of a major champion is 37 or 38,” I heard.

No it isn’t.

Golf offers the illusion of timelessness. That’s why so many of us love the game. It’s a game you or I can play all our lives. And, on the highest level, Tom Watson can almost win the British Open at 59. Jack Nicklaus can wake the echoes at Amen Corner at 46. Phil Mickelson can win just one major championship before he turns 35 and then win four after that, including last year’s British Open at 43. It’s fantastic to watch great golfers stir memories.

“Phil Mickelson is six years older (than Tiger) and just won the British Open,” a reader named Eric Dunn tweeted today. “Age is irrelevant in golf.”

No, that’s not it. It’s more that Mickelson is a rare golfer. Saying that age isn’t irrelevant in golf because Mickelson won at 43 is like saying, “Brett Favre played quarterback when he was 41 so age is irrelevant in football” or “Jamie Moyer won 16 games when he was 45 so age is irrelevant in baseball.” Golfers don’t age at precisely the same pace as baseball pitchers, but it was a lot closer than I expected.

I looked at all the major champions going back to 1960, the year Arnold Palmer helped usher in the notion of golf’s Grand Slam as we now think of it. I realize only going back to 1960 does excludeBen Hogan and Sam Snead and others who played very well into later ages, but those guys almost never played the British Open. Heck, they couldn’t even play all four in the same year because of scheduling. I don’t think it’s a fair comparison.

So, going back to 1960 here are some facts.

1. The average and median age for major champions is 32. It skews a little younger at the British Open (median of 31) and a little older at the PGA Championship (median of 33), but it’s basically 32. That number has stayed pretty constant for 50-plus years. That’s your peak: age 32.

2. Players 35 and younger have won more than three-quarters of all the majors since 1960. It may be hard to believe, but it’s a young man’s game.

3. Less than 10 percent – just 20 of 216 – of all majors were won by players 40 and over. It does happen, especially at the British Open (the last three British Open champions were all 40-somethings). But since 2000, only one golfer – 41-year-old Vijay Singh – has won a Masters, U.S. Open or PGA Championship.

4. Only two players in the last 54 years – Nicklaus in ’86 and Julius Boros in ’68 – were 46 or older when they won a Grand Slam title.

Here’s a quick chart of major championship winners by age if you are interested:

• Age 20-25: 24 (11%)

• Age 26-30: 64 (30%)

• Age 31-35: 76 (35%)

• Age 36-40: 34 (16%)

• Age 41-over: 19 (8%)

Then, as mentioned, I compared the aging pattern against major league pitchers. I used a statistic called Wins Above Replacement – which measures the value of a pitcher – but that’s not really important. There have been 216 major championships since 1960, and there have been 221 pitchers who had a season of 6.8 wins above replacement (that’s roughly a Cy Young quality season).

Here are those pitchers by age:

• Age 20-25: 62 (28%)

• Age 26-30: 86 (39%)

• Age 31-35: 60 (27%)

• Age 36-40: 12 (5.5%)

• Age 41-over: 1 (0.5%)

So, you can see that golfers tend to age at about the same rate as pitchers, only not quite at the same time. Golfers tend to start later. About two-thirds of the pitchers were 30 or younger while only four out of 10 of the major winners were that young. And golfers tend to end later.

The core age range for pitchers is roughly 23-36 – that is when they are at their best. Meanwhile for golfers, the core age range is just a little later, age 25-38. A few more pitchers are great in their young 20s. A few more golfers are great in their early 40s. But you will note that the range itself – about 16 years – is the same.

In fact, many of the best and most talented golfers of the last half-century stopped winning majors in their early 30s. Arnold Palmer won his last major at 34. Tom Watson won his last major at 33. Seve Ballesteros was just 31 when he win his last major. Johnny Miller, Curtis Strange, Fuzzy Zoeller, Jose Maria Olazabal, Fred Couples, Tom Weiskopf, Paul Azinger – none of these players won even one major championship after turning 35.

And, of course, Tiger Woods was 32 the last time he won a major, at the 2008 U.S. Open.

People sometimes mock the athletic grind of golf, but it’s real. In the last six years, Woods has had knee injuries, an elbow injury, a neck injury, an Achilles injury and a back injury. This year’s Masters will be the fifth major championships Woods has missed since winning that astonishing U.S. Open on one leg, and he missed the cut in two others. This is just the new reality. Woods, as he approaches 40, can still, on certain days and certain weekends, be a great golfer. But his body won’t let him be great on command, not anymore. Time is in charge.

But it’s more than just the body breaking down. Golfers, as a rule, are better when they’re younger. Putting is mostly a young man’s game. Power is mostly a young man’s game. Steadiness is a young man’s game. Experience and knowledge can make up for some of this, but not all of it. Yes, there are exceptions in golf, just like there are exceptions in every sport. But the general rule is still in place.

Woods will continue to fascinate for years. I think he has another major championship or two in him. Everyone will watch closely when he returns from this injury. His good days will inspire an overreaction just like his bad days will. Nicklaus has said it: Nobody ever played golf as well as Tiger did as a young man. But nobody in the last 50 years played golf as well as Jack Nicklaus did as an old man. And, as hard as it is to believe, that is a whole different skill.

 
TL; DR

All it takes is one magical week. Julius Boros, Lee Tevino, Jack Nicklaus, Hale Irwin, Darren Clarke.

As Charlie Brown once told Lucy Van Pelt, tell your statistics to shut up.

ETA: we're just discussing a guy winning one, not putting together five major wins in his 40s.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Brooks Koepka and Tony Finau look like some promising young golfers as well.
Agreed. Koepka has quietly put together a really good year, he's made the cut in every major with a win at the Phoenix Open.

Finau also looks impressive, a quality rookie season for sure. He had a pretty good second half.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is probably the most talented set of young golfers I've watched (and I've been watching golf for 30+ years). The number of talented guys who are < 30 is off the charts. And they're all long, straight, and good putters. Going to be a fun next decade or so.

 
Loved the tourney.Day was just so dialed in it was almost scary how easy he made that course look.

Speaking of Finau,wasn't he on the big break show a few years back with his brother on TGC?

 
Day's chunk on 9 is still pretty crazy to think about. Of all the shots he would feel the pressure on, that would be one of the least likely.

 
What did DJ end up doing from the shoreline on 17? I was watching on DVR and either FF'd past it, or CBS never showed it.

 
Day's chunk on 9 is still pretty crazy to think about. Of all the shots he would feel the pressure on, that would be one of the least likely.
Especially given his perfect drive. I'm thinking maybe the goid drive actualky led him to relax too much and he got lazy with his hands.
 
What did DJ end up doing from the shoreline on 17? I was watching on DVR and either FF'd past it, or CBS never showed it.
Really nice flop shot up to like 25 feet. Made bogey.
Thanks. BTW, was that a mannequin down by the rocks? Guy never moved when the ball landed there, just kept staring out at the lake. Didn't seem to be a spotter, so I assumed it was just some guy out for a walk.

 
This is probably the most talented set of young golfers I've watched (and I've been watching golf for 30+ years). The number of talented guys who are < 30 is off the charts. And they're all

long, straight, and good putters. Going to be a fun next decade or so.
Definitely.Spieth, day (he's only 27!), reed, koepka, finau, matauyama, Thomas, fowler, Willet, streb, grace, Rory, are ridiculously good players under 30. Lingmerth, lahiri, and aphirnabat(sp?) are foreign guys who could get big.

Dj, rose, poulter, Donald, bubba, kuchar, oustheisen, kaymer, snedeker, etc are 30ish guys that aren't going anywhere. Even inconsistent guys like Westwood, Casey, ohair, dufner and mahan can play with anyone.

Golf is on the rise for sure.

 
Spieth, Rory, Day and DJ is going to be fun for the next decade if Johnson doesn't implode. Clear cut top-4 IMO. Could throw Fowler in at the end if you wanted.

 
Spieth, Rory, Day and DJ is going to be fun for the next decade if Johnson doesn't implode. Clear cut top-4 IMO. Could throw Fowler in at the end if you wanted.
DJ can shot 67 in his sleep on a Thursday or Friday. He will be cashing checks for years to come. He implodes on the weekend. Some people just can't harness the adrenaline, and with the golf swing and short game touch being so delicate, if you don't have that ability, you will not close Majors.

 
Day's chunk on 9 is still pretty crazy to think about. Of all the shots he would feel the pressure on, that would be one of the least likely.
Uneven lie and between clubs.
Seriously? I understand they catch them "heavy" once in a while and come up a half club short....but this was a flat out chunk. These just don't do that.
I saw Jack cold top a drive at TPC Sawgrass one year (this was before he hit the Senior Tour but after he won the Masters.) Its rare to see them totally a flub a shot but it happens. Pretty unfortunate to have it happen during the final round of leading a major, thankfully didn't hurt him.

That year Lorena OChoa duck hooked it into the pond at the 72nd hole of the Dinah Shore/Nabisco/that lesbian party major thing - that was a total choke job. What happened to Day was no doubt nerves, but come on, the dude was lights out all week. After the sixth hole Spieth came off the green and told his caddy "He's on today, we're gonna have to work really hard here." Spieth made six birdies and still couldn't apply pressure. Have to give Jason major ups for playing lights out yesterday.

 
Matt Kuchar, Henrik Stenson & Jimmy Walker are in the BGTNWAM conversation.

Does Walker ever play good after they leave the

west coast? Seems like every year he leads the FedEx in February & then doesn't do jack ####.
All of them are on the tail end of their careers and none have come as close to DJ in the majors or won as much as he has on the PGA tour. They can be in the conversation I guess but probably not past the first minute or so.
i'd be shocked if kuchar ever won one. I expect Stenson will win one, and Walker one. DJ should win a few

 
Day's chunk on 9 is still pretty crazy to think about. Of all the shots he would feel the pressure on, that would be one of the least likely.
Uneven lie and between clubs.
Seriously? I understand they catch them "heavy" once in a while and come up a half club short....but this was a flat out chunk. These just don't do that.
I saw Jack cold top a drive at TPC Sawgrass one year (this was before he hit the Senior Tour but after he won the Masters.) Its rare to see them totally a flub a shot but it happens. Pretty unfortunate to have it happen during the final round of leading a major, thankfully didn't hurt him.

That year Lorena OChoa duck hooked it into the pond at the 72nd hole of the Dinah Shore/Nabisco/that lesbian party major thing - that was a total choke job. What happened to Day was no doubt nerves, but come on, the dude was lights out all week. After the sixth hole Spieth came off the green and told his caddy "He's on today, we're gonna have to work really hard here." Spieth made six birdies and still couldn't apply pressure. Have to give Jason major ups for playing lights out yesterday.
that's an easy shot to flub, its not a full swing and you're on a tight lie uphill, all it takes is a little deceleration and whoops?!!

the relevant fact that is the most amazing to me is the guy shot 67 on Sunday and shot a record 20 under score that hasn't been done in 155 years. I mean, speith would have had to shoot 64 to win. No one is that good.

 
Day's chunk on 9 is still pretty crazy to think about. Of all the shots he would feel the pressure on, that would be one of the least likely.
Uneven lie and between clubs.
Seriously? I understand they catch them "heavy" once in a while and come up a half club short....but this was a flat out chunk. These just don't do that.
I saw Jack cold top a drive at TPC Sawgrass one year (this was before he hit the Senior Tour but after he won the Masters.) Its rare to see them totally a flub a shot but it happens. Pretty unfortunate to have it happen during the final round of leading a major, thankfully didn't hurt him.

That year Lorena OChoa duck hooked it into the pond at the 72nd hole of the Dinah Shore/Nabisco/that lesbian party major thing - that was a total choke job. What happened to Day was no doubt nerves, but come on, the dude was lights out all week. After the sixth hole Spieth came off the green and told his caddy "He's on today, we're gonna have to work really hard here." Spieth made six birdies and still couldn't apply pressure. Have to give Jason major ups for playing lights out yesterday.
that's an easy shot to flub, its not a full swing and you're on a tight lie uphill, all it takes is a little deceleration and whoops?!!

the relevant fact that is the most amazing to me is the guy shot 67 on Sunday and shot a record 20 under score that hasn't been done in 155 years. I mean, speith would have had to shoot 64 to win. No one is that good.
There are different ways to win majors. Phil draining an 18 footer on the 72nd hole is one way. Posting a number nobody can match while they're making pars/bogies for the last two hours is another way.

Spieth shot a 68, so if Day was gonna falter, he was in position to win again. But Jason went out and seized this one. That was really impressive stuff.

 
The -20 is misleading though. If you look at Day's result in the context of other major winners, it's middle of the pack relative to the field. The course played very easy overall, and gave up a ton of low scores.

Taking nothing away from Day -- he played great when playing average might have lost it. But it's not a historic performance or anything.

 
yeah, i don't like when venues/setups lead to records that were better performances falling. but it's going to happen. sometimes deliberately in the name of increasing interest in the game.

 
Bring back real rough and fast greens for next year's majors please.
:thumbdown:

That was incredibly entertaining golf, and there's already another major where they aim for a high degree of difficulty. Like I said, for most viewers its a lot more fun to watch the best in the world throw darts at the pin than to watch them make tough up and downs where you're basically relying on the media's account of the difficult nature of the rough and the greens instead of being able to see the players' greatness for yourself. That's my opinion, anyway. I don't see why it's fun to watch a well-hit shot roll off the back of the green. "Oooh, look how short they mowed the grass and how slanted that landscaping is!"

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Serious question. When does Tiger's eligibility run out?
I just looked this up yesterday while my dad and I were talking, and it's virtually never for most stuff.

20+ career wins buys you a lifetime exemption on the PGA tour.

IIRC his eligibility for the US Open and WGC events runs out in 2018, but the other majors and the regular tour he's pretty much golden forever.

 
Serious question. When does Tiger's eligibility run out?
I just looked this up yesterday while my dad and I were talking, and it's virtually never for most stuff.

20+ career wins buys you a lifetime exemption on the PGA tour.

IIRC his eligibility for the US Open and WGC events runs out in 2018, but the other majors and the regular tour he's pretty much golden forever.
I think the US Open is only 10 years. So he won't be eligible after 2019 or something like that. Of course, they can issue an exemption for him, which I'd imagine they would do if needed.

 
yeah, i don't like when venues/setups lead to records that were better performances falling. but it's going to happen. sometimes deliberately in the name of increasing interest in the game.
avg score to par at this years PGA 72.77

Whistling Straight 7507 yards, 151 slope rating.

 
Bring back real rough and fast greens for next year's majors please.
:thumbdown:

That was incredibly entertaining golf, and there's already another major where they aim for a high degree of difficulty. Like I said, for most viewers its a lot more fun to watch the best in the world throw darts at the pin than to watch them make tough up and downs where you're basically relying on the media's account of the difficult nature of the rough and the greens instead of being able to see the players' greatness for yourself. That's my opinion, anyway. I don't see why it's fun to watch a well-hit shot roll off the back of the green. "Oooh, look how short they mowed the grass and how slanted that landscaping is!"
Disagree. I want the majors to be about hitting tight fairways and having to hit precise irons to small areas on the correct side of greens. Reward if you hit a good shot, but penalized if you hit a bad one. If I want to watch pros throw darts at pins from the fairway, rough, and sand, I'll watch any other tourney.

 
Bring back real rough and fast greens for next year's majors please.
:thumbdown:

That was incredibly entertaining golf, and there's already another major where they aim for a high degree of difficulty. Like I said, for most viewers its a lot more fun to watch the best in the world throw darts at the pin than to watch them make tough up and downs where you're basically relying on the media's account of the difficult nature of the rough and the greens instead of being able to see the players' greatness for yourself. That's my opinion, anyway. I don't see why it's fun to watch a well-hit shot roll off the back of the green. "Oooh, look how short they mowed the grass and how slanted that landscaping is!"
Disagree. I want the majors to be about hitting tight fairways and having to hit precise irons to small areas on the correct side of greens. Reward if you hit a good shot, but penalized if you hit a bad one. If I want to watch pros throw darts at pins from the fairway, rough, and sand, I'll watch any other tourney.
Those fairways were pretty tight.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top