Phenoms going under (1 Viewer)

[SCYCPA]

I don't know why you guys are all so skeptical about the existence of this web development company he paid 650k to --- I'm sure he set one up before declaring bankruptcy

Nope wasn't his, was the wife's co.

If it's his, his wife's or any other related party's company, it's going to be clawed back as a preferential transfer. Filing BK is the dumbest thing he can do if this is the case as the transactions will be scrutinized. If the are unable to bring it back, as I recall, it jeopardizes the BK filing.

If this web developer story's legit, some or all of what he paid may be clawed back anyway, and if they froze or put any restrictions or liens on paying out funds for prizes prior to paying them, which may be the case here, they may be lifted. BK may be the best route for all creditors (if we are getting the whole story) I stress, MAY. Please don't flame me for that.

Not a lawyer, so don't quote me on that, recalling biz law from many moons ago.

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

It's easy to just pile on and call him a crook instead of actually using your brain. Mike has earned the benefit of the doubt to me. If partial prize money, keeper deposits, and basketball entry fees aren't paid, then I will lead the charge against him. Until then, I'm taking a wait and see approach.

MIKE ZANGRILLILOLOL and his $600K web expert like this post.

...from a bar in Costa Rica.

 

[CalBear]

People trying to get chargebacks on their credit cards are doing a disservice to the industry. If too many people do this the credit card companies will just decide they are not going to support fantasy sports related transactions.

Can you show any example of credit card companies refusing to process transactions in any other industry?

 

[TheWalk84]

anyone have any luck with paypal yet?

BOA is still giving me the finger

 

[lynx4ben]

Young Chuck moved to Montana and bought a horse from a farmer for $100.00. The farmer agreed to deliver the horse the next day. The next Day he drove up and said, "Sorry, Son, but I have some bad news, The horse died."

Chuck replied, "Well, then just give me my money back."

The farmer said, "Can't do that. I went and spent it already."

Chuck said, "Ok, then, just bring me the dead horse."

The farmer asked, "What ya gonna do with him?"

Chuck said, "I'm going to raffle him off."

The farmer said, "You can't raffle off a dead horse!"

Chuck said, "Sure I can. Watch me. I just won't tell anybody he's dead."

A month later, the farmer met up with Chuck and asked, "What happened With that dead horse?"

Chuck said, "I raffled him off. I sold 500 tickets at two dollars a Piece and made a net profit of $898.00."

The farmer said, "Didn't anyone complain?"

Chuck said, "Just the guy who won. So I gave him his two dollars back."

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

People trying to get chargebacks on their credit cards are doing a disservice to the industry. If too many people do this the credit card companies will just decide they are not going to support fantasy sports related transactions.

Can you show any example of credit card companies refusing to process transactions in any other industry?

seems like it happens with online poker/sportsbooks due to situations like this. somebody makes a deposit, loses it all, and then files a chargeback with the CC company.

credit card companies eventually decide it's not worth the risk and start blocking all similar transactions.

 

[robcards]

People trying to get chargebacks on their credit cards are doing a disservice to the industry. If too many people do this the credit card companies will just decide they are not going to support fantasy sports related transactions.

Can you show any example of credit card companies refusing to process transactions in any other industry?

Online poker. Most major credit cards would deny any attempt to deposit on PokerStars, FullTilt, etc. etc.

 

[CalBear]

People trying to get chargebacks on their credit cards are doing a disservice to the industry. If too many people do this the credit card companies will just decide they are not going to support fantasy sports related transactions.

Can you show any example of credit card companies refusing to process transactions in any other industry?

seems like it happens with online poker/sportsbooks due to situations like this. somebody makes a deposit, loses it all, and then files a chargeback with the CC company.

credit card companies eventually decide it's not worth the risk and start blocking all similar transactions.

This isn't a chargeback based on losing money; it's a chargeback based on being defrauded. No different than if you'd bought a toaster from some guy on EBay who never shipped it.

Also, online poker is illegal in many places.

 

[Steve Tasker]

People trying to get chargebacks on their credit cards are doing a disservice to the industry. If too many people do this the credit card companies will just decide they are not going to support fantasy sports related transactions.

Ridiculous. The complaints are legit and people deserve to get their money back.

Based on the last email it's official, he's going to declare bankruptcy, which means "winners" will be getting pennies on the dollar if that.

Everyone should be attempting to chargeback the fraudulent charge that phenoms made to their CC.

Ridiculous yourself. You won't be so smug when Paypal or Visa decides not to support transactions for any fantasy sports contests because the industry is red flagged.

Well, maybe they've got good reason to red flag the entire industry. You know, because a new crook steals a bunch of people's money every year.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Also, online poker is illegal in many places.

not sure this is true.

I'm not saying the situations are identical. Just was responding to your question.

I don't have a problem with people filing complaints in this situation. Seems warranted.

 

[robcards]

I would strongly disagree with this.

If someone entered 1 league and finished 12th, that person has no business doing a chargeback or seeking any kind of restitution. That person truly lost nothing because of phenoms'....ummm...situation, let's call it, but rather he lost because of how the contest played out.

Think of it this way....if Mike had not sent that email and simply decided to not pay the winnings....what would be this hypothetical person's losses because of the.....ummm....situation? Exactly, nothing. He paid $50 or $100 or $200 to enter a contest, the contest went off, he lost the contest, and he has zero economic loss caused by the....ummmm....situation.

The integrity or fairness of the contest itself is not in question, therefore I see it as Mike delivered that part of the service to the entire league in 2014. What he did not deliver was the prizes to the prize winners and he did not deliver the 2015 leagues to those who prepaid them. Therefore it is the prize winners and those who prepaid for leagues that did not start at all (e.g. 2015 leagues and deposits) who were affected.

The ONLY people who should be seeking restitution of any form are those that have prepayments for 2015 football/basketball/baseball leagues, those with dynasty/keeper league deposits, those who have unused funds on deposit, and those who have winnings from leagues, since those are the only ones who have a true economic loss. If you have multiple leagues, you should be doing what I did....analyze all the $ paid to Mike and determine which of your leagues fall into each of these areas.

Anyone else who seeks restitution through chargebacks, claims, or anything else, is lower than snail crap, a low-life thief akin to one who scours the obituaries and robs mourners' houses while they are at the funeral.

Is this serious?? You're comparing Mike robbing us to some innocent person who lost family members? You must be trolling.

When you signed up for a league, you paid money for a contest, when you find out that NO ONE, even the winners would receive money, EVERYONE who entered that contest deserves their money back. Period. It does not matter if you were going to win or not. The people who win these leagues are NOT getting their winning money back, they are getting their entry fee back if they file a charge back, so why in the world would the losers not file charge backs? This is the most faulty logic I've seen in this entire discussion. So there are 3 winners in a $100 league that should have payed out a total of $1020, now only 3 people can file chargebacks based on your logic so Mike only has to pay $300 instead of the $1020 that should have been paid?

 

[BRONG]

It's easy to just pile on and call him a crook instead of actually using your brain. Mike has earned the benefit of the doubt to me. If partial prize money, keeper deposits, and basketball entry fees aren't paid, then I will lead the charge against him. Until then, I'm taking a wait and see approach.

MIKE ZANGRILLILOLOL and his $600K web expert like this post.

...from a bar in Costa Rica.

So what's your brain telling you now, thetman?

 

[Yamato]

I'm not sure people care about future online fantasy leagues. A lot won't get into another online league anyway so any damage done won't matter to them. I can understand people's outrage and taking back their money is the only way to get vindacation.

In the end this whole ordeal is going to hurt. It will probably even hurt Footballguys membership next year.

 

[robcards]

The way I calculated mine, I'd do a chargeback for $100 for the entry fee in the league you won. The $100 in the other league was lost whether this happened or not.

For the claim for the bankruptcy court, though, I'd list myself as a creditor for $500 less anything that I recovered through the chargeback process.

I've got 17 of them, mostly dynasties, went through every league and did them this way. Have 2 different numbers, one for the potential bankruptcy claim reflecting all winnings, one for the chargeback process, done this way.

Good luck with that. By his own admission he doesn't have even half of the money to pay the prizes, and factor in the legal fees, where do you think the bankruptcy court is going to find money to pay you with? Never mind the fact that even if all of the money were there, the bankruptcy court would not go through each league and determine the winners, they would more likely reimburse entry fees. Therefore, there is absolutely no reason why everyone shouldn't be filing chargebacks even if they lost.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

In the championship game in both leagues of Mike's. Know I'm not seeing a dime and already did chargeback. I have no idea why people are up in arms about 'non-winners' doing chargeback on fraudulent contest (Edit: You're more likely to see winnings from a chargeback owner than Mike). We're all non-winners here. 'Winners' aren't seeing their winnings (as much as one may want to believe). As many have already indicated, bankruptcy court isnt going league-by-league, winner-by-winner. I don't know how many more times this needs to be repeated.

Get out of here with the CC's outlawing fantasy football based on customers charging back..... on a fraudulent contest. Maybe it's a good thing with all the crooks running these things.

This is gonna hurt the whole industry. Not just the contests, but sites such as this one. Just go look over at all the contests/companies that havent paid out any or all winnings in the past half a dozen years or so (posted partial list earlier in thread)

 

[SCYCPA]

I would strongly disagree with this.

If someone entered 1 league and finished 12th, that person has no business doing a chargeback or seeking any kind of restitution. That person truly lost nothing because of phenoms'....ummm...situation, let's call it, but rather he lost because of how the contest played out.

Think of it this way....if Mike had not sent that email and simply decided to not pay the winnings....what would be this hypothetical person's losses because of the.....ummm....situation? Exactly, nothing. He paid $50 or $100 or $200 to enter a contest, the contest went off, he lost the contest, and he has zero economic loss caused by the....ummmm....situation.

The integrity or fairness of the contest itself is not in question, therefore I see it as Mike delivered that part of the service to the entire league in 2014. What he did not deliver was the prizes to the prize winners and he did not deliver the 2015 leagues to those who prepaid them. Therefore it is the prize winners and those who prepaid for leagues that did not start at all (e.g. 2015 leagues and deposits) who were affected.

The ONLY people who should be seeking restitution of any form are those that have prepayments for 2015 football/basketball/baseball leagues, those with dynasty/keeper league deposits, those who have unused funds on deposit, and those who have winnings from leagues, since those are the only ones who have a true economic loss. If you have multiple leagues, you should be doing what I did....analyze all the $ paid to Mike and determine which of your leagues fall into each of these areas.

Anyone else who seeks restitution through chargebacks, claims, or anything else, is lower than snail crap, a low-life thief akin to one who scours the obituaries and robs mourners' houses while they are at the funeral.

Is this serious?? You're comparing Mike robbing us to some innocent person who lost family members? You must be trolling.

When you signed up for a league, you paid money for a contest, when you find out that NO ONE, even the winners would receive money, EVERYONE who entered that contest deserves their money back. Period. It does not matter if you were going to win or not. The people who win these leagues are NOT getting their winning money back, they are getting their entry fee back if they file a charge back, so why in the world would the losers not file charge backs? This is the most faulty logic I've seen in this entire discussion. So there are 3 winners in a $100 league that should have payed out a total of $1020, now only 3 people can file chargebacks based on your logic so Mike only has to pay $300 instead of the $1020 that should have been paid?

You completely misunderstand what I am saying.

The issue is on the chargebacks to CC's. The guy who finishes 12th in his league did not...repeat, did not incur any economic loss. He lost his $ whether Mike paid it to the winners, paid it to a software developer, or absconded to Rio de Janeiro with a cocktail waitress in a Dolly Parton wig. Re-read what I said. That hypothetical guy was going to end up with zero whether or not this happened. He got a league set up, he drafted it, he set his lineups, he did waiver claims, made trades, talked smack with his leaguemates, had access to the league for 15 weeks of the season plus whatever in the preseason. He stunk, he lost his $.

The guys who got hosed are the prize winners. Now...those guys who decided that drafting LaVonn Brazill and Jermichael finley and starting him for 16 weeks are piling in, saying, I want my money back, I got hosed. They are using the bad situation to gleefully restore economic losses that they really did not incur at the expense of the people who truthfully lost $. Guys who have league deposits, etc. Much like funeral thieves do. Now, if they do a chargeback and pay the $ to the prize winners in the league...I don't have a problem with that. But how many of these guys do you honestly believe are going to do that?

I'm not saying Mike should only have to pay $300 or whatever to prize winners, not by a long stretch. But I am saying that, unless the league non-prize winners are going to make the prizewinners whole, they need to keep their noses out of it and their mouths shut.

The guys who screwed the hardest in all this are those that have league deposits or have paid for leagues that have not gone off. No one, absolutely no one, on that site should get paid a dime one second before all of those are reimbursed. Those are the guys who truthfully paid for a service and never received it.

 

[SCYCPA]

The way I calculated mine, I'd do a chargeback for $100 for the entry fee in the league you won. The $100 in the other league was lost whether this happened or not.

For the claim for the bankruptcy court, though, I'd list myself as a creditor for $500 less anything that I recovered through the chargeback process.

I've got 17 of them, mostly dynasties, went through every league and did them this way. Have 2 different numbers, one for the potential bankruptcy claim reflecting all winnings, one for the chargeback process, done this way.

Good luck with that. By his own admission he doesn't have even half of the money to pay the prizes, and factor in the legal fees, where do you think the bankruptcy court is going to find money to pay you with? Never mind the fact that even if all of the money were there, the bankruptcy court would not go through each league and determine the winners, they would more likely reimburse entry fees. Therefore, there is absolutely no reason why everyone shouldn't be filing chargebacks even if they lost.

At this point, I've written the whole thing off and what I get I get. I'm only outlining my logic for how much chargeback I asked for from my credit card company. Trying not to be greedy and recoup my losses on bad teams at the expense of everyone else.

 

[fatness]

If that is true, then it's up to the integrity of the league to disperse the money to the winners if they are refunded their entry fees. If they don't, then they are no better than Mike.

Just stop this "then they're no better than Mike" BS. It's ridiculous. Nobody in any of his leagues screwed over people in hundreds of leagues.

 

[comfortably numb]

I would strongly disagree with this.

If someone entered 1 league and finished 12th, that person has no business doing a chargeback or seeking any kind of restitution. That person truly lost nothing because of phenoms'....ummm...situation, let's call it, but rather he lost because of how the contest played out.

Think of it this way....if Mike had not sent that email and simply decided to not pay the winnings....what would be this hypothetical person's losses because of the.....ummm....situation? Exactly, nothing. He paid $50 or $100 or $200 to enter a contest, the contest went off, he lost the contest, and he has zero economic loss caused by the....ummmm....situation.

The integrity or fairness of the contest itself is not in question, therefore I see it as Mike delivered that part of the service to the entire league in 2014. What he did not deliver was the prizes to the prize winners and he did not deliver the 2015 leagues to those who prepaid them. Therefore it is the prize winners and those who prepaid for leagues that did not start at all (e.g. 2015 leagues and deposits) who were affected.

The ONLY people who should be seeking restitution of any form are those that have prepayments for 2015 football/basketball/baseball leagues, those with dynasty/keeper league deposits, those who have unused funds on deposit, and those who have winnings from leagues, since those are the only ones who have a true economic loss. If you have multiple leagues, you should be doing what I did....analyze all the $ paid to Mike and determine which of your leagues fall into each of these areas.

Anyone else who seeks restitution through chargebacks, claims, or anything else, is lower than snail crap, a low-life thief akin to one who scours the obituaries and robs mourners' houses while they are at the funeral.

Is this serious?? You're comparing Mike robbing us to some innocent person who lost family members? You must be trolling.

When you signed up for a league, you paid money for a contest, when you find out that NO ONE, even the winners would receive money, EVERYONE who entered that contest deserves their money back. Period. It does not matter if you were going to win or not. The people who win these leagues are NOT getting their winning money back, they are getting their entry fee back if they file a charge back, so why in the world would the losers not file charge backs? This is the most faulty logic I've seen in this entire discussion. So there are 3 winners in a $100 league that should have payed out a total of $1020, now only 3 people can file chargebacks based on your logic so Mike only has to pay $300 instead of the $1020 that should have been paid?

You completely misunderstand what I am saying.

The issue is on the chargebacks to CC's. The guy who finishes 12th in his league did not...repeat, did not incur any economic loss. He lost his $ whether Mike paid it to the winners, paid it to a software developer, or absconded to Rio de Janeiro with a cocktail waitress in a Dolly Parton wig. Re-read what I said. That hypothetical guy was going to end up with zero whether or not this happened. He got a league set up, he drafted it, he set his lineups, he did waiver claims, made trades, talked smack with his leaguemates, had access to the league for 15 weeks of the season plus whatever in the preseason. He stunk, he lost his $.

The guys who got hosed are the prize winners. Now...those guys who decided that drafting LaVonn Brazill and Jermichael finley and starting him for 16 weeks are piling in, saying, I want my money back, I got hosed. They are using the bad situation to gleefully restore economic losses that they really did not incur at the expense of the people who truthfully lost $. Guys who have league deposits, etc. Much like funeral thieves do. Now, if they do a chargeback and pay the $ to the prize winners in the league...I don't have a problem with that. But how many of these guys do you honestly believe are going to do that?

I'm not saying Mike should only have to pay $300 or whatever to prize winners, not by a long stretch. But I am saying that, unless the league non-prize winners are going to make the prizewinners whole, they need to keep their noses out of it and their mouths shut.

So if someone started in a dynasty league this year and week 5 they were 1-4 and they decided to manage their team with 2015 in mind they should not get compensated? If they had known there would be no 2015 FF season for them they wouldn't be trading for future draft picks. The entire outcome of the league would be different. The "winners" may have never won anything.

?

 

[fatness]

Assuming a chargeback works. Let's say you played two $100 leagues. You won $500 in league one and $0 in league two. How would you pursue chargebacks?

Similar question. Lets say you played in five $100 leagues. You won $300 in one league and $0 in the other four. How would you pursue chargebacks?

 

[RUSF18]

Just got this via email from Phenoms

**NOTICE**

This notice follows the letter posted to the site and emailed last Saturday. In that letter, it was noted that Phenom Enterprises, LLC ('Phenoms') was facing financial problems. Phenoms has received a significant number of emails and other communications in the wake of that letter--this notice responds generally to the concerns raised in them.

After conferring with legal counsel, and barring some intervening event (such as an acceptable offer to purchase the company), Phenoms will be pursuing bankruptcy. In bankruptcy, a trustee will be appointed who will take control of all of Phenoms' assets and make distributions to claimants according to relevant legal requirements. Additionally, the bankruptcy court and the trustee will oversee and review company finances.

Due to the foregoing, you are invited to update your account information at https://www.phenomsff.com/account/editprofile.php. You should then be on the lookout for a notice regarding filing a claim against Phenoms, which will be sent via mail and/or email, and posted on Phenoms' website (phenomsff.com).

Phenoms cannot answer questions regarding the time-line of the bankruptcy process nor the amounts claimants could expect to receive. Those answers are ultimately dependent on the bankruptcy court process. Relevant updates will be posted on Phenoms' website.

Thank you.

Sent by Phenoms Fantasy Sports: https://www.phenomsff.com

[SIZE=11pt]Mike Zangrilli, Owner & Commissioner[/SIZE]

Email coming from Mike himself. No law firm or lawyer listed. And he wrote it to make it seem like an official document ("***NOTICE***").

Seems like he could just be trying to buy more time.

 

[fatness]

People trying to get chargebacks on their credit cards are doing a disservice to the industry. If too many people do this the credit card companies will just decide they are not going to support fantasy sports related transactions.

lol

 

[Banger]

any potential money will now be eaten up by the bankruptcy lawyers...I've seen them eat up 10's of millions in bankruptcy proceedings. $600k to $1 mill in total assets (if that's what's in the accounts..porbably unlikely) will be eaten up in no time with advice, proceedings, figuring out who is owed what....that money is gone. sorry to say.

 

[Mikeisonabeachearning20%]

Bottom line is this guy has probably lawyered up. Has received advice not to pay anyone anything at this point. Most of you that were part of the leagues will get notices from a bankruptcy court asking if you want to assert a claim. Those of you that respond will end up getting a check for pennies on the dollar a year from now (if you are lucky) once the trustee divides what is left. And if it boils down to selling the programing code or whatever he talks about in his email--it could be even longer.

Sorry to be the cold water, but that is where I see this going.

+1

 

[SCYCPA]

I would strongly disagree with this.

If someone entered 1 league and finished 12th, that person has no business doing a chargeback or seeking any kind of restitution. That person truly lost nothing because of phenoms'....ummm...situation, let's call it, but rather he lost because of how the contest played out.

Think of it this way....if Mike had not sent that email and simply decided to not pay the winnings....what would be this hypothetical person's losses because of the.....ummm....situation? Exactly, nothing. He paid $50 or $100 or $200 to enter a contest, the contest went off, he lost the contest, and he has zero economic loss caused by the....ummmm....situation.

The integrity or fairness of the contest itself is not in question, therefore I see it as Mike delivered that part of the service to the entire league in 2014. What he did not deliver was the prizes to the prize winners and he did not deliver the 2015 leagues to those who prepaid them. Therefore it is the prize winners and those who prepaid for leagues that did not start at all (e.g. 2015 leagues and deposits) who were affected.

The ONLY people who should be seeking restitution of any form are those that have prepayments for 2015 football/basketball/baseball leagues, those with dynasty/keeper league deposits, those who have unused funds on deposit, and those who have winnings from leagues, since those are the only ones who have a true economic loss. If you have multiple leagues, you should be doing what I did....analyze all the $ paid to Mike and determine which of your leagues fall into each of these areas.

Anyone else who seeks restitution through chargebacks, claims, or anything else, is lower than snail crap, a low-life thief akin to one who scours the obituaries and robs mourners' houses while they are at the funeral.

Is this serious?? You're comparing Mike robbing us to some innocent person who lost family members? You must be trolling.

When you signed up for a league, you paid money for a contest, when you find out that NO ONE, even the winners would receive money, EVERYONE who entered that contest deserves their money back. Period. It does not matter if you were going to win or not. The people who win these leagues are NOT getting their winning money back, they are getting their entry fee back if they file a charge back, so why in the world would the losers not file charge backs? This is the most faulty logic I've seen in this entire discussion. So there are 3 winners in a $100 league that should have payed out a total of $1020, now only 3 people can file chargebacks based on your logic so Mike only has to pay $300 instead of the $1020 that should have been paid?

You completely misunderstand what I am saying.

The issue is on the chargebacks to CC's. The guy who finishes 12th in his league did not...repeat, did not incur any economic loss. He lost his $ whether Mike paid it to the winners, paid it to a software developer, or absconded to Rio de Janeiro with a cocktail waitress in a Dolly Parton wig. Re-read what I said. That hypothetical guy was going to end up with zero whether or not this happened. He got a league set up, he drafted it, he set his lineups, he did waiver claims, made trades, talked smack with his leaguemates, had access to the league for 15 weeks of the season plus whatever in the preseason. He stunk, he lost his $.

The guys who got hosed are the prize winners. Now...those guys who decided that drafting LaVonn Brazill and Jermichael finley and starting him for 16 weeks are piling in, saying, I want my money back, I got hosed. They are using the bad situation to gleefully restore economic losses that they really did not incur at the expense of the people who truthfully lost $. Guys who have league deposits, etc. Much like funeral thieves do. Now, if they do a chargeback and pay the $ to the prize winners in the league...I don't have a problem with that. But how many of these guys do you honestly believe are going to do that?

I'm not saying Mike should only have to pay $300 or whatever to prize winners, not by a long stretch. But I am saying that, unless the league non-prize winners are going to make the prizewinners whole, they need to keep their noses out of it and their mouths shut.

So if someone started in a dynasty league this year and week 5 they were 1-4 and they decided to manage their team with 2015 in mind they should not get compensated? If they had known there would be no 2015 FF season for them they wouldn't be trading for future draft picks. The entire outcome of the league would be different. The "winners" may have never won anything.

?

I was getting to you...

I actually have one of my leagues that is in the same situation. Realistically, at 1-4 start, how would the outcome have changed? How many 1-4 starting teams end up making the playoffs in this format?

Look, everyone can come up with a hundred different variables in this. I've seen guys in Omega leagues who were eliminated in week 11 talking about doing chargebacks and getting their $ back....why? You lost the dang thing 4 weeks before the announcement hit.

We can come with 1,000 different variables and rationalizations. At the end of the day, we're all likely going to get screwed. I just don't think it's ethical that guys are trying to dilute what may be an already miniscule settlement pool for people who were legitimately hosed, by charging back for leagues to recover funds where they received the service, played the league for the full year and finished out of the $. Unless they somehow pay those funds to the prize winners of the leagues.

 

[fatness]

If someone entered 1 league and finished 12th, that person has no business doing a chargeback or seeking any kind of restitution. That person truly lost nothing because of phenoms'....ummm...situation, let's call it, but rather he lost because of how the contest played out.

I don't think you understand what happened.

Everyone in every league lost their money when it was spent elsewhere, which was definitely before the first "oops you might not get all your money" announcement came out. Trying to parse who really lost and who really won based on later results in a league that was not going to pay out any money is wrongheaded.

 

[ROCKET]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone have the ability to run a credit check on this guy? I bet that would be pretty telling as to what is really going on.

 

[pitt4life21]

Well my credit card company said I cant dispute.

 

[Stomp24]

Assuming a chargeback works. Let's say you played two $100 leagues. You won $500 in league one and $0 in league two. How would you pursue chargebacks?

Similar question. Lets say you played in five $100 leagues. You won $300 in one league and $0 in the other four. How would you pursue chargebacks?

the chargeback is only for what you paid in league fees, how much you could possibly win or lose doesn't matter at this point.

 

[SCYCPA]

Assuming a chargeback works. Let's say you played two $100 leagues. You won $500 in league one and $0 in league two. How would you pursue chargebacks?

Similar question. Lets say you played in five $100 leagues. You won $300 in one league and $0 in the other four. How would you pursue chargebacks?

Same way...charge back $100 for the league where you finished in the $, where you did not receive the complete service (Mike did not hold your prize in trust as promised). Pursue the bankruptcy estate for the other $200. Again with the caveat or disclaimer...unless you are going to pay the funds received from the other leagues to the respective league prize winners, then I don't have a problem with seeking chargeback on the whole thing.

You lost the other $200 whether Mike filed bankruptcy or not.

 

[Touchdown There]

Young Chuck moved to Montana and bought a horse from a farmer for $100.00. The farmer agreed to deliver the horse the next day. The next Day he drove up and said, "Sorry, Son, but I have some bad news, The horse died."

Chuck replied, "Well, then just give me my money back."

The farmer said, "Can't do that. I went and spent it already."

Chuck said, "Ok, then, just bring me the dead horse."

The farmer asked, "What ya gonna do with him?"

Chuck said, "I'm going to raffle him off."

The farmer said, "You can't raffle off a dead horse!"

Chuck said, "Sure I can. Watch me. I just won't tell anybody he's dead."

A month later, the farmer met up with Chuck and asked, "What happened With that dead horse?"

Chuck said, "I raffled him off. I sold 500 tickets at two dollars a Piece and made a net profit of $898.00."

The farmer said, "Didn't anyone complain?"

Chuck said, "Just the guy who won. So I gave him his two dollars back."

I saw a Dateline or 20/20 a few weeks back about a murder that took place by some Thai kid who was placing bets with another kid acting as his bookie. The bookie was not actually placing the bets. He was keeping the 10-15 grand/bet the Thai kid was wagering and losing. The day came where the Thai kid finally won a big bet, went to the bookie and was told "I forgot to place that bet" and refused to pay the winnings. Thai kid sneaks into his apartment when he is not there, steals the bookies Glock 9mm and caps the bookie and his two buddies when they arrive.

I think that small time bookies pull this all the time. They earn trust by doing small wagers, wait until the big one and then don't place the wager (usually online I assume). If the bettor loses, he never knows the difference. When he wins, bookie says "sorry, I forgot". What is your recourse...filing a police report on your illegal wager? Risk free theft, unless you get shot.

 

[Mikeisonabeachearning20%]

Young Chuck moved to Montana and bought a horse from a farmer for $100.00. The farmer agreed to deliver the horse the next day. The next Day he drove up and said, "Sorry, Son, but I have some bad news, The horse died."

Chuck replied, "Well, then just give me my money back."

The farmer said, "Can't do that. I went and spent it already."

Chuck said, "Ok, then, just bring me the dead horse."

The farmer asked, "What ya gonna do with him?"

Chuck said, "I'm going to raffle him off."

The farmer said, "You can't raffle off a dead horse!"

Chuck said, "Sure I can. Watch me. I just won't tell anybody he's dead."

A month later, the farmer met up with Chuck and asked, "What happened With that dead horse?"

Chuck said, "I raffled him off. I sold 500 tickets at two dollars a Piece and made a net profit of $898.00."

The farmer said, "Didn't anyone complain?"

Chuck said, "Just the guy who won. So I gave him his two dollars back."

Welcome to Ponzi Scaming 101.

 

[hamhocs]

Just got this via email from Phenoms

**NOTICE**

This notice follows the letter posted to the site and emailed last Saturday. In that letter, it was noted that Phenom Enterprises, LLC ('Phenoms') was facing financial problems. Phenoms has received a significant number of emails and other communications in the wake of that letter--this notice responds generally to the concerns raised in them.

After conferring with legal counsel, and barring some intervening event (such as an acceptable offer to purchase the company), Phenoms will be pursuing bankruptcy. In bankruptcy, a trustee will be appointed who will take control of all of Phenoms' assets and make distributions to claimants according to relevant legal requirements. Additionally, the bankruptcy court and the trustee will oversee and review company finances.

Due to the foregoing, you are invited to update your account information at https://www.phenomsff.com/account/editprofile.php. You should then be on the lookout for a notice regarding filing a claim against Phenoms, which will be sent via mail and/or email, and posted on Phenoms' website (phenomsff.com).

Phenoms cannot answer questions regarding the time-line of the bankruptcy process nor the amounts claimants could expect to receive. Those answers are ultimately dependent on the bankruptcy court process. Relevant updates will be posted on Phenoms' website.

Thank you.

Sent by Phenoms Fantasy Sports: https://www.phenomsff.com

[SIZE=11pt]Mike Zangrilli, Owner & Commissioner[/SIZE]

Email coming from Mike himself. No law firm or lawyer listed. And he wrote it to make it seem like an official document ("***NOTICE***").

Seems like he could just be trying to buy more time.

This! He's been reading this thread and is in reactionary mode. He's trying to buy time to gather some funds and make a run for it. Creating phenomslegal@gmail.com was very amateurish. He doesn't even know what his next step is.

 

[Stomp24]

I would strongly disagree with this.

If someone entered 1 league and finished 12th, that person has no business doing a chargeback or seeking any kind of restitution. That person truly lost nothing because of phenoms'....ummm...situation, let's call it, but rather he lost because of how the contest played out.

Think of it this way....if Mike had not sent that email and simply decided to not pay the winnings....what would be this hypothetical person's losses because of the.....ummm....situation? Exactly, nothing. He paid $50 or $100 or $200 to enter a contest, the contest went off, he lost the contest, and he has zero economic loss caused by the....ummmm....situation.

The integrity or fairness of the contest itself is not in question, therefore I see it as Mike delivered that part of the service to the entire league in 2014. What he did not deliver was the prizes to the prize winners and he did not deliver the 2015 leagues to those who prepaid them. Therefore it is the prize winners and those who prepaid for leagues that did not start at all (e.g. 2015 leagues and deposits) who were affected.

The ONLY people who should be seeking restitution of any form are those that have prepayments for 2015 football/basketball/baseball leagues, those with dynasty/keeper league deposits, those who have unused funds on deposit, and those who have winnings from leagues, since those are the only ones who have a true economic loss. If you have multiple leagues, you should be doing what I did....analyze all the $ paid to Mike and determine which of your leagues fall into each of these areas.

Anyone else who seeks restitution through chargebacks, claims, or anything else, is lower than snail crap, a low-life thief akin to one who scours the obituaries and robs mourners' houses while they are at the funeral.

Is this serious?? You're comparing Mike robbing us to some innocent person who lost family members? You must be trolling.

When you signed up for a league, you paid money for a contest, when you find out that NO ONE, even the winners would receive money, EVERYONE who entered that contest deserves their money back. Period. It does not matter if you were going to win or not. The people who win these leagues are NOT getting their winning money back, they are getting their entry fee back if they file a charge back, so why in the world would the losers not file charge backs? This is the most faulty logic I've seen in this entire discussion. So there are 3 winners in a $100 league that should have payed out a total of $1020, now only 3 people can file chargebacks based on your logic so Mike only has to pay $300 instead of the $1020 that should have been paid?

You completely misunderstand what I am saying.

The issue is on the chargebacks to CC's. The guy who finishes 12th in his league did not...repeat, did not incur any economic loss. He lost his $ whether Mike paid it to the winners, paid it to a software developer, or absconded to Rio de Janeiro with a cocktail waitress in a Dolly Parton wig. Re-read what I said. That hypothetical guy was going to end up with zero whether or not this happened. He got a league set up, he drafted it, he set his lineups, he did waiver claims, made trades, talked smack with his leaguemates, had access to the league for 15 weeks of the season plus whatever in the preseason. He stunk, he lost his $.

The guys who got hosed are the prize winners. Now...those guys who decided that drafting LaVonn Brazill and Jermichael finley and starting him for 16 weeks are piling in, saying, I want my money back, I got hosed. They are using the bad situation to gleefully restore economic losses that they really did not incur at the expense of the people who truthfully lost $. Guys who have league deposits, etc. Much like funeral thieves do. Now, if they do a chargeback and pay the $ to the prize winners in the league...I don't have a problem with that. But how many of these guys do you honestly believe are going to do that?

I'm not saying Mike should only have to pay $300 or whatever to prize winners, not by a long stretch. But I am saying that, unless the league non-prize winners are going to make the prizewinners whole, they need to keep their noses out of it and their mouths shut.

So if someone started in a dynasty league this year and week 5 they were 1-4 and they decided to manage their team with 2015 in mind they should not get compensated? If they had known there would be no 2015 FF season for them they wouldn't be trading for future draft picks. The entire outcome of the league would be different. The "winners" may have never won anything.

?

I was getting to you...

I actually have one of my leagues that is in the same situation. Realistically, at 1-4 start, how would the outcome have changed? How many 1-4 starting teams end up making the playoffs in this format?

Look, everyone can come up with a hundred different variables in this. I've seen guys in Omega leagues who were eliminated in week 11 talking about doing chargebacks and getting their $ back....why? You lost the dang thing 4 weeks before the announcement hit.

We can come with 1,000 different variables and rationalizations. At the end of the day, we're all likely going to get screwed. I just don't think it's ethical that guys are trying to dilute what may be an already miniscule settlement pool for people who were legitimately hosed, by charging back for leagues to recover funds where they received the service, played the league for the full year and finished out of the $. Unless they somehow pay those funds to the prize winners of the leagues.

Do you really think chargebacks will diminish a settlement pool? If you do I have a great FF team I want to sell you on a site called Phenoms. Even if there is a settlement pool it will go to everyone, not just the winners...so look for your $5 check in about 3 years.

 

[comfortably numb]

I would strongly disagree with this.

If someone entered 1 league and finished 12th, that person has no business doing a chargeback or seeking any kind of restitution. That person truly lost nothing because of phenoms'....ummm...situation, let's call it, but rather he lost because of how the contest played out.

Think of it this way....if Mike had not sent that email and simply decided to not pay the winnings....what would be this hypothetical person's losses because of the.....ummm....situation? Exactly, nothing. He paid $50 or $100 or $200 to enter a contest, the contest went off, he lost the contest, and he has zero economic loss caused by the....ummmm....situation.

The integrity or fairness of the contest itself is not in question, therefore I see it as Mike delivered that part of the service to the entire league in 2014. What he did not deliver was the prizes to the prize winners and he did not deliver the 2015 leagues to those who prepaid them. Therefore it is the prize winners and those who prepaid for leagues that did not start at all (e.g. 2015 leagues and deposits) who were affected.

The ONLY people who should be seeking restitution of any form are those that have prepayments for 2015 football/basketball/baseball leagues, those with dynasty/keeper league deposits, those who have unused funds on deposit, and those who have winnings from leagues, since those are the only ones who have a true economic loss. If you have multiple leagues, you should be doing what I did....analyze all the $ paid to Mike and determine which of your leagues fall into each of these areas.

Anyone else who seeks restitution through chargebacks, claims, or anything else, is lower than snail crap, a low-life thief akin to one who scours the obituaries and robs mourners' houses while they are at the funeral.

Is this serious?? You're comparing Mike robbing us to some innocent person who lost family members? You must be trolling.

When you signed up for a league, you paid money for a contest, when you find out that NO ONE, even the winners would receive money, EVERYONE who entered that contest deserves their money back. Period. It does not matter if you were going to win or not. The people who win these leagues are NOT getting their winning money back, they are getting their entry fee back if they file a charge back, so why in the world would the losers not file charge backs? This is the most faulty logic I've seen in this entire discussion. So there are 3 winners in a $100 league that should have payed out a total of $1020, now only 3 people can file chargebacks based on your logic so Mike only has to pay $300 instead of the $1020 that should have been paid?

You completely misunderstand what I am saying.

The issue is on the chargebacks to CC's. The guy who finishes 12th in his league did not...repeat, did not incur any economic loss. He lost his $ whether Mike paid it to the winners, paid it to a software developer, or absconded to Rio de Janeiro with a cocktail waitress in a Dolly Parton wig. Re-read what I said. That hypothetical guy was going to end up with zero whether or not this happened. He got a league set up, he drafted it, he set his lineups, he did waiver claims, made trades, talked smack with his leaguemates, had access to the league for 15 weeks of the season plus whatever in the preseason. He stunk, he lost his $.

The guys who got hosed are the prize winners. Now...those guys who decided that drafting LaVonn Brazill and Jermichael finley and starting him for 16 weeks are piling in, saying, I want my money back, I got hosed. They are using the bad situation to gleefully restore economic losses that they really did not incur at the expense of the people who truthfully lost $. Guys who have league deposits, etc. Much like funeral thieves do. Now, if they do a chargeback and pay the $ to the prize winners in the league...I don't have a problem with that. But how many of these guys do you honestly believe are going to do that?

I'm not saying Mike should only have to pay $300 or whatever to prize winners, not by a long stretch. But I am saying that, unless the league non-prize winners are going to make the prizewinners whole, they need to keep their noses out of it and their mouths shut.

So if someone started in a dynasty league this year and week 5 they were 1-4 and they decided to manage their team with 2015 in mind they should not get compensated? If they had known there would be no 2015 FF season for them they wouldn't be trading for future draft picks. The entire outcome of the league would be different. The "winners" may have never won anything.

?

I was getting to you...

I actually have one of my leagues that is in the same situation. Realistically, at 1-4 start, how would the outcome have changed? How many 1-4 starting teams end up making the playoffs in this format?

Look, everyone can come up with a hundred different variables in this. I've seen guys in Omega leagues who were eliminated in week 11 talking about doing chargebacks and getting their $ back....why? You lost the dang thing 4 weeks before the announcement hit.

We can come with 1,000 different variables and rationalizations. At the end of the day, we're all likely going to get screwed. I just don't think it's ethical that guys are trying to dilute what may be an already miniscule settlement pool for people who were legitimately hosed, by charging back for leagues to recover funds where they received the service, played the league for the full year and finished out of the $. Unless they somehow pay those funds to the prize winners of the leagues.

You only need 1 variable for a dynasty league as far as i am concerned.

If you know there is no next season the entire season is handled differently.

That 1-4 team will not trade away Boldin for a 2nd RD pick. Instead he holds him and make completely different moves to his team.

I get what you are saying but at this point I think everyone is advocating for people to just try to recoup anything possible because and other scenario appears to be collecting zero anyway.

 

[Chemical X]

i am no expert, but dabble with bankruptcies a bit.......the llc already protects the scammer personally, so i am not sure a personal filing would be in order here. this would likely be a chapter 7 liquidation, but what assets does a cash operation have for a trustee to liquidate? also, are ff players even technically creditors........i think you would lose this argument? you are neither secured or unsecured and have no documentation to support a claim imo. once the cash here disappears, what exactly is being liquidated to pay creditors? by my math -0- assets = -0- recovery.

 

[SCYCPA]

If someone entered 1 league and finished 12th, that person has no business doing a chargeback or seeking any kind of restitution. That person truly lost nothing because of phenoms'....ummm...situation, let's call it, but rather he lost because of how the contest played out.

I don't think you understand what happened.

Everyone in every league lost their money when it was spent elsewhere, which was definitely before the first "oops you might not get all your money" announcement came out. Trying to parse who really lost and who really won based on later results in a league that was not going to pay out any money is wrongheaded.

Assuming a chargeback works. Let's say you played two $100 leagues. You won $500 in league one and $0 in league two. How would you pursue chargebacks?

Similar question. Lets say you played in five $100 leagues. You won $300 in one league and $0 in the other four. How would you pursue chargebacks?

Same way...charge back $100 for the league where you finished in the $, where you did not receive the complete service (Mike did not hold your prize in trust as promised). Pursue the bankruptcy estate for the other $200. Again with the caveat or disclaimer...unless you are going to pay the funds received from the other leagues to the respective league prize winners, then I don't have a problem with seeking chargeback on the whole thing.

You lost the other $200 whether Mike filed bankruptcy or not.

Assuming a chargeback works. Let's say you played two $100 leagues. You won $500 in league one and $0 in league two. How would you pursue chargebacks?

Similar question. Lets say you played in five $100 leagues. You won $300 in one league and $0 in the other four. How would you pursue chargebacks?

Same way...charge back $100 for the league where you finished in the $, where you did not receive the complete service (Mike did not hold your prize in trust as promised). Pursue the bankruptcy estate for the other $200. Again with the caveat or disclaimer...unless you are going to pay the funds received from the other leagues to the respective league prize winners, then I don't have a problem with seeking chargeback on the whole thing.

You lost the other $200 whether Mike filed bankruptcy or not.

If someone entered 1 league and finished 12th, that person has no business doing a chargeback or seeking any kind of restitution. That person truly lost nothing because of phenoms'....ummm...situation, let's call it, but rather he lost because of how the contest played out.

I don't think you understand what happened.

Everyone in every league lost their money when it was spent elsewhere, which was definitely before the first "oops you might not get all your money" announcement came out. Trying to parse who really lost and who really won based on later results in a league that was not going to pay out any money is wrongheaded.

I understand perfectly what happened. I'm not talk about the legal side, I'm talking about the ethical side.

Look, here's an example...let's say Mike set up a league for you and I and 10 other guys, let's say winner take all. We play the league, at week 14 you're in 1st place in the playoffs and I'm in 12th after starting Case Keenum at QB all year. Mike drops the bomb in week 15, how did that change my position in the league? It didn't. So, ethically, what would be the reasoning or rationale for me to do a chargeback to my card and keep the $? I entered a contest, I lost. Whether Mike pays out to you or not, my economic position is the same, I lost my entry fee. I did not lose because Mike did what he did, that had zero effect.

Unless, I do the chargeback and then pay the $ over to you. But that's not what I'm seeing on this board, guys are talking about charging back and looking for rationalizations for keeping the $ regardless of where they finished in the league.

 

[SCYCPA]

I would strongly disagree with this.

If someone entered 1 league and finished 12th, that person has no business doing a chargeback or seeking any kind of restitution. That person truly lost nothing because of phenoms'....ummm...situation, let's call it, but rather he lost because of how the contest played out.

Think of it this way....if Mike had not sent that email and simply decided to not pay the winnings....what would be this hypothetical person's losses because of the.....ummm....situation? Exactly, nothing. He paid $50 or $100 or $200 to enter a contest, the contest went off, he lost the contest, and he has zero economic loss caused by the....ummmm....situation.

The integrity or fairness of the contest itself is not in question, therefore I see it as Mike delivered that part of the service to the entire league in 2014. What he did not deliver was the prizes to the prize winners and he did not deliver the 2015 leagues to those who prepaid them. Therefore it is the prize winners and those who prepaid for leagues that did not start at all (e.g. 2015 leagues and deposits) who were affected.

The ONLY people who should be seeking restitution of any form are those that have prepayments for 2015 football/basketball/baseball leagues, those with dynasty/keeper league deposits, those who have unused funds on deposit, and those who have winnings from leagues, since those are the only ones who have a true economic loss. If you have multiple leagues, you should be doing what I did....analyze all the $ paid to Mike and determine which of your leagues fall into each of these areas.

Anyone else who seeks restitution through chargebacks, claims, or anything else, is lower than snail crap, a low-life thief akin to one who scours the obituaries and robs mourners' houses while they are at the funeral.

Is this serious?? You're comparing Mike robbing us to some innocent person who lost family members? You must be trolling.

When you signed up for a league, you paid money for a contest, when you find out that NO ONE, even the winners would receive money, EVERYONE who entered that contest deserves their money back. Period. It does not matter if you were going to win or not. The people who win these leagues are NOT getting their winning money back, they are getting their entry fee back if they file a charge back, so why in the world would the losers not file charge backs? This is the most faulty logic I've seen in this entire discussion. So there are 3 winners in a $100 league that should have payed out a total of $1020, now only 3 people can file chargebacks based on your logic so Mike only has to pay $300 instead of the $1020 that should have been paid?

You completely misunderstand what I am saying.

The issue is on the chargebacks to CC's. The guy who finishes 12th in his league did not...repeat, did not incur any economic loss. He lost his $ whether Mike paid it to the winners, paid it to a software developer, or absconded to Rio de Janeiro with a cocktail waitress in a Dolly Parton wig. Re-read what I said. That hypothetical guy was going to end up with zero whether or not this happened. He got a league set up, he drafted it, he set his lineups, he did waiver claims, made trades, talked smack with his leaguemates, had access to the league for 15 weeks of the season plus whatever in the preseason. He stunk, he lost his $.

The guys who got hosed are the prize winners. Now...those guys who decided that drafting LaVonn Brazill and Jermichael finley and starting him for 16 weeks are piling in, saying, I want my money back, I got hosed. They are using the bad situation to gleefully restore economic losses that they really did not incur at the expense of the people who truthfully lost $. Guys who have league deposits, etc. Much like funeral thieves do. Now, if they do a chargeback and pay the $ to the prize winners in the league...I don't have a problem with that. But how many of these guys do you honestly believe are going to do that?

I'm not saying Mike should only have to pay $300 or whatever to prize winners, not by a long stretch. But I am saying that, unless the league non-prize winners are going to make the prizewinners whole, they need to keep their noses out of it and their mouths shut.

So if someone started in a dynasty league this year and week 5 they were 1-4 and they decided to manage their team with 2015 in mind they should not get compensated? If they had known there would be no 2015 FF season for them they wouldn't be trading for future draft picks. The entire outcome of the league would be different. The "winners" may have never won anything.

?

I was getting to you...

I actually have one of my leagues that is in the same situation. Realistically, at 1-4 start, how would the outcome have changed? How many 1-4 starting teams end up making the playoffs in this format?

Look, everyone can come up with a hundred different variables in this. I've seen guys in Omega leagues who were eliminated in week 11 talking about doing chargebacks and getting their $ back....why? You lost the dang thing 4 weeks before the announcement hit.

We can come with 1,000 different variables and rationalizations. At the end of the day, we're all likely going to get screwed. I just don't think it's ethical that guys are trying to dilute what may be an already miniscule settlement pool for people who were legitimately hosed, by charging back for leagues to recover funds where they received the service, played the league for the full year and finished out of the $. Unless they somehow pay those funds to the prize winners of the leagues.

Do you really think chargebacks will diminish a settlement pool? If you do I have a great FF team I want to sell you on a site called Phenoms. Even if there is a settlement pool it will go to everyone, not just the winners...so look for your $5 check in about 3 years.

Read my next comment...I've basically written off this thing in my mind, and whatever I get I get.

The bankruptcy claims will be made by the creditors, not the players. The prize winners are the creditors. Players are the customers.

 

[jon_mx]

i am no expert, but dabble with bankruptcies a bit.......the llc already protects the scammer personally, so i am not sure a personal filing would be in order here. this would likely be a chapter 7 liquidation, but what assets does a cash operation have for a trustee to liquidate? also, are ff players even technically creditors........i think you would lose this argument? you are neither secured or unsecured and have no documentation to support a claim imo. once the cash here disappears, what exactly is being liquidated to pay creditors? by my math -0- assets = -0- recovery.

Did you atleast stay at a Holiday Inn Express? /jk

 

[CalBear]

I would strongly disagree with this.

If someone entered 1 league and finished 12th, that person has no business doing a chargeback or seeking any kind of restitution. That person truly lost nothing because of phenoms'....ummm...situation, let's call it, but rather he lost because of how the contest played out.

Think of it this way....if Mike had not sent that email and simply decided to not pay the winnings....what would be this hypothetical person's losses because of the.....ummm....situation? Exactly, nothing. He paid $50 or $100 or $200 to enter a contest, the contest went off, he lost the contest, and he has zero economic loss caused by the....ummmm....situation.

The integrity or fairness of the contest itself is not in question, therefore I see it as Mike delivered that part of the service to the entire league in 2014. What he did not deliver was the prizes to the prize winners and he did not deliver the 2015 leagues to those who prepaid them. Therefore it is the prize winners and those who prepaid for leagues that did not start at all (e.g. 2015 leagues and deposits) who were affected.

The ONLY people who should be seeking restitution of any form are those that have prepayments for 2015 football/basketball/baseball leagues, those with dynasty/keeper league deposits, those who have unused funds on deposit, and those who have winnings from leagues, since those are the only ones who have a true economic loss. If you have multiple leagues, you should be doing what I did....analyze all the $ paid to Mike and determine which of your leagues fall into each of these areas.

Anyone else who seeks restitution through chargebacks, claims, or anything else, is lower than snail crap, a low-life thief akin to one who scours the obituaries and robs mourners' houses while they are at the funeral.

Is this serious?? You're comparing Mike robbing us to some innocent person who lost family members? You must be trolling.

When you signed up for a league, you paid money for a contest, when you find out that NO ONE, even the winners would receive money, EVERYONE who entered that contest deserves their money back. Period. It does not matter if you were going to win or not. The people who win these leagues are NOT getting their winning money back, they are getting their entry fee back if they file a charge back, so why in the world would the losers not file charge backs? This is the most faulty logic I've seen in this entire discussion. So there are 3 winners in a $100 league that should have payed out a total of $1020, now only 3 people can file chargebacks based on your logic so Mike only has to pay $300 instead of the $1020 that should have been paid?

You completely misunderstand what I am saying.

The issue is on the chargebacks to CC's. The guy who finishes 12th in his league did not...repeat, did not incur any economic loss. He lost his $ whether Mike paid it to the winners, paid it to a software developer, or absconded to Rio de Janeiro with a cocktail waitress in a Dolly Parton wig. Re-read what I said. That hypothetical guy was going to end up with zero whether or not this happened. He got a league set up, he drafted it, he set his lineups, he did waiver claims, made trades, talked smack with his leaguemates, had access to the league for 15 weeks of the season plus whatever in the preseason. He stunk, he lost his $.

The guy who finished 12th was just as defrauded as the guy who won. Let's say you went up to a slot machine, put in a quarter, and it came up bust. 10 other guys do the same thing. The 12th guy comes up and hits three 7s, and nothing comes out. Turns out there was never any money in the machine; everyone's out their quarter. All of you paid to be involved in a game of chance, and none of you got to be involved in a game of chance; it was a guaranteed loss from the outset. You all deserve your quarter back.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Really not comfortable with the spam I've been getting from other Phenoms lawyers. It's not that I don't support the idea of bringing Mike to justice, it's the principle of using what I thought was my protected contact info and generating an email list. I know Mike wouldn't have done this, but some of you on Phenoms are, and you need to stop it.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Just got this via email from Phenoms

**NOTICE**

This notice follows the letter posted to the site and emailed last Saturday. In that letter, it was noted that Phenom Enterprises, LLC ('Phenoms') was facing financial problems. Phenoms has received a significant number of emails and other communications in the wake of that letter--this notice responds generally to the concerns raised in them.

After conferring with legal counsel, and barring some intervening event (such as an acceptable offer to purchase the company), Phenoms will be pursuing bankruptcy. In bankruptcy, a trustee will be appointed who will take control of all of Phenoms' assets and make distributions to claimants according to relevant legal requirements. Additionally, the bankruptcy court and the trustee will oversee and review company finances.

Due to the foregoing, you are invited to update your account information at https://www.phenomsff.com/account/editprofile.php. You should then be on the lookout for a notice regarding filing a claim against Phenoms, which will be sent via mail and/or email, and posted on Phenoms' website (phenomsff.com).

Phenoms cannot answer questions regarding the time-line of the bankruptcy process nor the amounts claimants could expect to receive. Those answers are ultimately dependent on the bankruptcy court process. Relevant updates will be posted on Phenoms' website.

Thank you.

Sent by Phenoms Fantasy Sports: https://www.phenomsff.com

[SIZE=11pt]Mike Zangrilli, Owner & Commissioner[/SIZE]

This of course could be total BS as well.

 

[CalBear]

i am no expert, but dabble with bankruptcies a bit.......the llc already protects the scammer personally, so i am not sure a personal filing would be in order here. this would likely be a chapter 7 liquidation, but what assets does a cash operation have for a trustee to liquidate? also, are ff players even technically creditors........i think you would lose this argument? you are neither secured or unsecured and have no documentation to support a claim imo. once the cash here disappears, what exactly is being liquidated to pay creditors? by my math -0- assets = -0- recovery.

The LLC only protects the person if he has kept the finances separate. If he was pulling money out of the LLC and gambling with it, the LLC will be pierced and his personal assets will be fair game.

 

[Chemical X]

i am no expert, but dabble with bankruptcies a bit.......the llc already protects the scammer personally, so i am not sure a personal filing would be in order here. this would likely be a chapter 7 liquidation, but what assets does a cash operation have for a trustee to liquidate? also, are ff players even technically creditors........i think you would lose this argument? you are neither secured or unsecured and have no documentation to support a claim imo. once the cash here disappears, what exactly is being liquidated to pay creditors? by my math -0- assets = -0- recovery.

The LLC only protects the person if he has kept the finances separate. If he was pulling money out of the LLC and gambling with it, the LLC will be pierced and his personal assets will be fair game.

then a personal filing would follow and good luck with non exempt assets.

 

[Stomp24]

I would strongly disagree with this.

If someone entered 1 league and finished 12th, that person has no business doing a chargeback or seeking any kind of restitution. That person truly lost nothing because of phenoms'....ummm...situation, let's call it, but rather he lost because of how the contest played out.

Think of it this way....if Mike had not sent that email and simply decided to not pay the winnings....what would be this hypothetical person's losses because of the.....ummm....situation? Exactly, nothing. He paid $50 or $100 or $200 to enter a contest, the contest went off, he lost the contest, and he has zero economic loss caused by the....ummmm....situation.

The integrity or fairness of the contest itself is not in question, therefore I see it as Mike delivered that part of the service to the entire league in 2014. What he did not deliver was the prizes to the prize winners and he did not deliver the 2015 leagues to those who prepaid them. Therefore it is the prize winners and those who prepaid for leagues that did not start at all (e.g. 2015 leagues and deposits) who were affected.

The ONLY people who should be seeking restitution of any form are those that have prepayments for 2015 football/basketball/baseball leagues, those with dynasty/keeper league deposits, those who have unused funds on deposit, and those who have winnings from leagues, since those are the only ones who have a true economic loss. If you have multiple leagues, you should be doing what I did....analyze all the $ paid to Mike and determine which of your leagues fall into each of these areas.

Anyone else who seeks restitution through chargebacks, claims, or anything else, is lower than snail crap, a low-life thief akin to one who scours the obituaries and robs mourners' houses while they are at the funeral.

Is this serious?? You're comparing Mike robbing us to some innocent person who lost family members? You must be trolling.

When you signed up for a league, you paid money for a contest, when you find out that NO ONE, even the winners would receive money, EVERYONE who entered that contest deserves their money back. Period. It does not matter if you were going to win or not. The people who win these leagues are NOT getting their winning money back, they are getting their entry fee back if they file a charge back, so why in the world would the losers not file charge backs? This is the most faulty logic I've seen in this entire discussion. So there are 3 winners in a $100 league that should have payed out a total of $1020, now only 3 people can file chargebacks based on your logic so Mike only has to pay $300 instead of the $1020 that should have been paid?

You completely misunderstand what I am saying.

The issue is on the chargebacks to CC's. The guy who finishes 12th in his league did not...repeat, did not incur any economic loss. He lost his $ whether Mike paid it to the winners, paid it to a software developer, or absconded to Rio de Janeiro with a cocktail waitress in a Dolly Parton wig. Re-read what I said. That hypothetical guy was going to end up with zero whether or not this happened. He got a league set up, he drafted it, he set his lineups, he did waiver claims, made trades, talked smack with his leaguemates, had access to the league for 15 weeks of the season plus whatever in the preseason. He stunk, he lost his $.

The guys who got hosed are the prize winners. Now...those guys who decided that drafting LaVonn Brazill and Jermichael finley and starting him for 16 weeks are piling in, saying, I want my money back, I got hosed. They are using the bad situation to gleefully restore economic losses that they really did not incur at the expense of the people who truthfully lost $. Guys who have league deposits, etc. Much like funeral thieves do. Now, if they do a chargeback and pay the $ to the prize winners in the league...I don't have a problem with that. But how many of these guys do you honestly believe are going to do that?

I'm not saying Mike should only have to pay $300 or whatever to prize winners, not by a long stretch. But I am saying that, unless the league non-prize winners are going to make the prizewinners whole, they need to keep their noses out of it and their mouths shut.

So if someone started in a dynasty league this year and week 5 they were 1-4 and they decided to manage their team with 2015 in mind they should not get compensated? If they had known there would be no 2015 FF season for them they wouldn't be trading for future draft picks. The entire outcome of the league would be different. The "winners" may have never won anything.

?

I was getting to you...

I actually have one of my leagues that is in the same situation. Realistically, at 1-4 start, how would the outcome have changed? How many 1-4 starting teams end up making the playoffs in this format?

Look, everyone can come up with a hundred different variables in this. I've seen guys in Omega leagues who were eliminated in week 11 talking about doing chargebacks and getting their $ back....why? You lost the dang thing 4 weeks before the announcement hit.

We can come with 1,000 different variables and rationalizations. At the end of the day, we're all likely going to get screwed. I just don't think it's ethical that guys are trying to dilute what may be an already miniscule settlement pool for people who were legitimately hosed, by charging back for leagues to recover funds where they received the service, played the league for the full year and finished out of the $. Unless they somehow pay those funds to the prize winners of the leagues.

You only need 1 variable for a dynasty league as far as i am concerned.

If you know there is no next season the entire season is handled differently.

That 1-4 team will not trade away Boldin for a 2nd RD pick. Instead he holds him and make completely different moves to his team.

I get what you are saying but at this point I think everyone is advocating for people to just try to recoup anything possible because and other scenario appears to be collecting zero anyway.

Exactly! I drafted/traded for my team to be better next year and the year after so why shouldn't I get a full refund even though I wouldn't have won this year? Get your money while you can and let people like SCYCPA wait for their money that will never come because they don't get IT!

 

[hamhocs]

i am no expert, but dabble with bankruptcies a bit.......the llc already protects the scammer personally, so i am not sure a personal filing would be in order here. this would likely be a chapter 7 liquidation, but what assets does a cash operation have for a trustee to liquidate? also, are ff players even technically creditors........i think you would lose this argument? you are neither secured or unsecured and have no documentation to support a claim imo. once the cash here disappears, what exactly is being liquidated to pay creditors? by my math -0- assets = -0- recovery.

The LLC only protects the person if he has kept the finances separate. If he was pulling money out of the LLC and gambling with it, the LLC will be pierced and his personal assets will be fair game.

Dibs on the dumpster

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

you guys just need to move on and put all this behind you --- just write it off as another bad beat.

there's a league starting up over the winter called Renom's if you want a chance at winning your money back.

haven't heard anything bad about them -- they seem legit.

entry fees taken here if anybody's interested

 

[Touchdown There]

by my math -0- assets = -0- recovery.

Mike thinks his non-working FF software platform is worth 600k, because that is what he dumped into it (supposedly). Most of us here believe there is some truth to the story, but it is more likely he spent 200k on the software development and dumped the rest of the lost funds into his poker/baseball gambling addiction.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

You completely misunderstand what I am saying.

I think you're completely misunderstanding what happened here.

 

[hamhocs]

by my math -0- assets = -0- recovery.

Mike thinks his non-working FF software platform is worth 600k, because that is what he dumped into it (supposedly). Most of us here believe there is some truth to the story, but it is more likely he spent 200k on the software development and dumped the rest of the lost funds into his poker/baseball gambling addiction.

Well if the latter is true, and if he really is claiming bankruptcy in the courts, he'll just be signing his own criminal warrant.