BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Huh, looking at that site, I know of the guy that designed his website. One of the biggest scammers out there...
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Phenoms going under (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter JohnW1970
- Start date
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
Sorry, but so naive. I'd bet he never hired anyone to do anything. Built up a pyramid scheme, and cashed out.
bonscott
Footballguy
Exactly. A quick contact to MFL support and I'm sure they will transfer the league info over to a new league and the league should assign a commish. No need for the leagues themselves to go under.
The whole situation sucks but I'll be first to admit I don't understand why anyone would go with a company like Phenoms to run your league, there is no need. You have a commish and you run the league yourself.
Anyway, good luck to all and I hope you all at least get your entry fees back.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I've already come to terms with the fact that I won't see any money back and that this clown will probably vanish and get away with it.
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
You know it's completely legal right? Any business can claim bankruptcy at any time. Just give yourself a 10 million dollar a day salary until the money is gone. Than you ran out of money and don't owe anyone anything. It happened on a bunch of poker sites that were legit in the UK and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Your money is gone and there's nothing you can do about it.
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Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I've done the same. But it'll be tough watching the one o'clock games kick off knowing I no longer have stakes. Like an amputee that still feels his missing leg.
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
They have already, and said that fantasy sports is legal.
Obviously that could be revisited but it's unlikely imo. And in any case it's not really apropos in a discussion about what happened at phenoms. When Bernie Madoff scammed investors, the government didn't shut down the stock market. Fantasy sports isn't going anywhere, and like I said before, to compare companies like FD to some guy running dynasty leagues out of a dumpster seems like misplaced anger. I agree that everyone should be careful where they put their money, though.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
True unless he's sitting on a pile of money. If he's truly bankrupt I agree with you. My guess is that he took the money of innocent people and it's sitting in a bank account somewhere.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
im not lawyer, but if he has a LLC, and file bankruptcy you wont get a a thing .01 on the dollar n what not
It may not be that simple. Based on the screenshot somebody posted earlier, Phenoms held itself out as being a member of the FSTA. The FSTA has a policy requiring its members to keep player accounts segregated from operating funds. If the victims can make out a case for fraud, they may be able to pierce the corporate veil. I kind of doubt that Zangrilli is sitting on a pile of money; but if he is, I don't think he'll legally get to keep it.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Fariq
Footballguy
Ned
Footballguy
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Soaring Eagle
Footballguy
I just counted the number of phenoms leagues there were....765!!!!
they were $50 to $1000 (some were more)
so let's underestimate and say the average was $100 (probably low balling)
12 teams each = $1200 x 765 = $918,000 so probably over a million
I think that makes sense with his math as he is saying he lost 600k plus on the web designer and will pay back 20 to 40%
regardless looks like we trusted over 1 million dollars to this guy
they were $50 to $1000 (some were more)
so let's underestimate and say the average was $100 (probably low balling)
12 teams each = $1200 x 765 = $918,000 so probably over a million
I think that makes sense with his math as he is saying he lost 600k plus on the web designer and will pay back 20 to 40%
regardless looks like we trusted over 1 million dollars to this guy
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/phenomsff.com
Looks like they've already updated that phenoms is closed.
Looks like they've already updated that phenoms is closed.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
comfortably numb
Footballguy
Just terrible.
Feel bad for all of you guys.
Level 1 dooosh right there
Feel bad for all of you guys.
Level 1 dooosh right there
Soaring Eagle
Footballguy
you get a discount when doing bulk leagues referring new leagues etc
I would guess maybe $40ish a league?
$30 k
Pipes
Footballguy
ArbyMelt
Footballguy
sounds like a combination of bad business decisions (why pay this software developer more than the original $200k, when the job was not finished), some illegal/immoral stuff (dipping into the bank that had the league funds, instead of taking a business loan or use his own savings for web development), and some personal issues (gambling? the guy l ives in a dump, i'm guessing he dipped into the funds and tried to make more money, poker/gambling/risky stocks). Or he is flat out a criminal and this web development company was in on it.
Class action suits only make sense against someone/entity who actually has lots of assets. This would be a complete waste of time.
Reginald Cornsilks
Footballguy
I wonder if that's who he used to build the "new website" as well.
I don't see why he wouldn't.
Someone should get in touch with them and vet out Zangria's story
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Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Hobby is going to lose a lot of fantasy players from this. Anymore I don't think it's as simple as "I'll play somewhere else now". It's more to the point "Is it worth playing and devoting the time?" I'm more surprised from this one than any of the others contests. Particularly since Mike built a ~10 year reputation here. No one saw this coming. It's saddening more than anything else.
Soaring Eagle
Footballguy
the address is a chiropractors office
ArbyMelt
Footballguy
looks like the apt is actually behind the chiro office
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/457-E-5600-S-APT-B-Murray-UT-84107/12866366_zpid/
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
For sure. I know I am not alone in being wary of giving my money to ANY site in the future.
Assuming the Utah Attorney General was contacted, the process will probably go something like this. Someone in the office will investigate the complaint(s) and determine what laws were possibly violated. Someone there will draft a letter and ask for a response from Mike and give him about 2-3 weeks to respond. Based on the response or lack thereof, the AG office will act accordingly. It might be possible they take some more drastic immediate action, maybe freeze accounts?, as I am no expert by any means. But that is my best guess based on my limited knowledge of how AG offices work.
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It's easy to just pile on and call him a crook instead of actually using your brain. Mike has earned the benefit of the doubt to me. If partial prize money, keeper deposits, and basketball entry fees aren't paid, then I will lead the charge against him. Until then, I'm taking a wait and see approach.
Honestly, you people giving Mike the benefit of the doubt are crazy in my view. By his OWN ADMISSION about $500k is missing (and that's HIS account, I think others probably think it's worse than that). Again, by his OWN ADMISSION he used player prize money which should have been segregated from business/operating accounts. There's nothing else to wait for, his own words establish he broke the law. We need the authorities to arrest him, freeze the accounts and give players back as much money as possible.
East Coast Bias
Footballguy
The minute he started using prize money and deposits for developing his website he became a crook. He also started new leagues as late as September.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Also, you say if "partial prize money" isn't paid? So paying folks 20-40% is good enough in your view and absolves him? That is insane.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
I'm sure he has some assets. If I had skin in the game, I'd want every dime he has. And an LLC is not a shield of immunity.
weinster666
Footballguy
I wonder if an footballguy staff members can respond to this question:
It appears Mike Zangrilli was or is a staff member of footballguys.com
http://apps.footballguys.com/staff.htm
According to the Phenoms web site "about" information (https://www.phenomsff.com/help/about.php )
In 2003, Footballguys.com approached me about running leagues for their website. We worked on a plan, but in the end, they decided against adding leagues to their website. I decided to continue what I had started by creating Phenoms Fantasy Football. The Greek Leagues laid the foundation, thus the Greek Letter naming system for the leagues.
I was hoping if a Footballguys staff member could provide more details about this claim.
Was/is Mike a Footballguys.com staff member?
Was there discussions with Mike back in 2003 about running legaues on Footballguys.com?
If so, what was Mike's background or qualifications for this? Did Mike have web developer/designer experience?
If Mike was/is a web developer, that makes me question even more the valididty of his claims that he hired some 3rd party web developers and their overcosts caused him to reach this point.
W666
It appears Mike Zangrilli was or is a staff member of footballguys.com
http://apps.footballguys.com/staff.htm
According to the Phenoms web site "about" information (https://www.phenomsff.com/help/about.php )
In 2003, Footballguys.com approached me about running leagues for their website. We worked on a plan, but in the end, they decided against adding leagues to their website. I decided to continue what I had started by creating Phenoms Fantasy Football. The Greek Leagues laid the foundation, thus the Greek Letter naming system for the leagues.
I was hoping if a Footballguys staff member could provide more details about this claim.
Was/is Mike a Footballguys.com staff member?
Was there discussions with Mike back in 2003 about running legaues on Footballguys.com?
If so, what was Mike's background or qualifications for this? Did Mike have web developer/designer experience?
If Mike was/is a web developer, that makes me question even more the valididty of his claims that he hired some 3rd party web developers and their overcosts caused him to reach this point.
W666
A further complication to this mess is the legality of fantasy football. There are some federal cutouts that exempt fantasy football from gambling laws if all the conditions are met. But states have their own rules. I have no idea about Utah. It is a mess, so who knows how they will respond.
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
I didn't play in with Phenoms, but I can understand the anger as I have been screwed out of prize money in leagues before. However, what rings hollow in all this is if he was serious about saving face and trying to help his customers, he would have filed for some sort of bankruptcy protection when the numbers started to look bad.
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