Player Spotlight: Fred Taylor, Laurence Maroney, Sammy Morris & Ke (1 Viewer)

[Jason Wood]

2009 Player Spotlight Series

One of Footballguys best assets is our message board community. The Shark Pool is, in our view, the best place on the internet to discuss, debate and analyze all things fantasy football. In what's become an annual tradition, the Player Spotlight series is a key part of the preseason efforts. As many of you know, we consider the Player Spotlight threads the permanent record for analyzing the fantasy prospects of the player in question. Last year, we published more than 120 offensive spotlights covering the vast majority of expected skill position starters. This year will be no different.

Each week we will post a list of players to be discussed. Those threads will remain open for the entire preseason, and should be a central point to discussion expectations for the player in question. Importantly, analysis done in the first week of posting will be part of the permanent record in two ways. 1) At the end of the week, we will tally the projections into a consensus. 2) We will select a number of pull quotes from forum contributors who make a compelling statement or observation. Both the projections and pull quotes will be part of a published article on the main website.

Thread Topic: Fred Taylor, Laurence Maroney, Sammy Morris & Kevin Faulk, RBs, New England Patriots

Player Page Link: Fred Taylor Player Page

Player Page Link: Laurence Maroney Player Page

Player Page Link: Sammy Morris Player Page

Player Page Link: Kevin Faulk Player Page

Each article will include:

Detailed viewpoint from a Footballguys staff member
Highlighted member commentary from the message board threads
FBG Projections
Consensus Member ProjectionsThe Rules

In order for this thread to provide maximum value, we ask that you follow a few simple guidelines:

Focus commentary on the player in question, and your expectations for said player
Back up your expectations in whatever manner you deem appropriate; avoid posts that simply say "I hate him" or "He's the best"
To be included in the final synopsis and consensus outlook, you MUST provide projections for the playerProjections should include (at a minimum):

For QBs: Attempts, Completions, Passing Yards, Passing TDs, Ints, Rush Yards, Rush TDs
For RBs: Rushes, Rushing Yards, Rush TDs, Receptions, Receiving Yards, Receiving TDs
For WRs & TEs: Receptions, Receiving Yards, Receiving TDsNow let's get on with the conversation! We look forward to your contributions and let me offer a personal thanks in anticipation of the great debate and analysis.

 

[David Yudkin]

No takers yet?

 

[Blackjacks]

OKay, I'll bite

I think Taylor is going to be the guy in NE

However, I do see alot of people getting touches and wouldn't want to rely on them as my starters

I think Taylor was promised touches when he signed with NE. Belichek wouldn't have brought an older to the team if he didn't have plans for him. All the older people he brings in are usually impact players right off the bat.

I see Taylor finishing in the top 25 rb's this year and having a couple of really good games, probably early in the season.

180 rushes

800 yards

4.5 ypc

7 td's

20 catches

150 yards

7.5 ypc

Not bad value for a 11th-12th round pick

 

[Anonymous Internet User]

Morris is 32 years old, Taylor is 33 and both have an extensive injury history. Faulk is also 33.

I think a healthy Maroney will be getting the lions share of the carries in 1-back sets and Morris/Taylor/Faulk will all see action in 2-back sets. Overall, I'm not sure I'd want to depend on any of them on my fantasy roster this year except as a very late round gamble.

 

[Adebisi]

Morris is 32 years old, Taylor is 33 and both have an extensive injury history. Faulk is also 33.

I think a healthy Maroney will be getting the lions share of the carries in 1-back sets and Morris/Taylor/Faulk will all see action in 2-back sets. Overall, I'm not sure I'd want to depend on any of them on my fantasy roster this year except as a very late round gamble.

Can you please unpack the bolded a bit? The Patriots' base offense is 1 RB, 3 WRs, and 1 TE. There isn't even a true FB on the roster this year. Point being, I don't think you'll see many 2-back sets, except for in short-yardage situations.Also, Kevin Faulk is the 3rd down back and the best pass blocking RB on the team, so he rarely shares the backfield with anyone.

 

[David Yudkin]

Morris is 32 years old, Taylor is 33 and both have an extensive injury history. Faulk is also 33. I think a healthy Maroney will be getting the lions share of the carries in 1-back sets and Morris/Taylor/Faulk will all see action in 2-back sets. Overall, I'm not sure I'd want to depend on any of them on my fantasy roster this year except as a very late round gamble.

The Pats don't use many 2 back sets . . . which makes projecting their RB production even more difficult. They normally use 3 wide with a TE and a RB, 4 wide with a RB (almost always Faulk), or 2 wide with 2 TE and a RB.

 

[Anonymous Internet User]

Morris is 32 years old, Taylor is 33 and both have an extensive injury history. Faulk is also 33. I think a healthy Maroney will be getting the lions share of the carries in 1-back sets and Morris/Taylor/Faulk will all see action in 2-back sets. Overall, I'm not sure I'd want to depend on any of them on my fantasy roster this year except as a very late round gamble.

The Pats don't use many 2 back sets . . . which makes projecting their RB production even more difficult. They normally use 3 wide with a TE and a RB, 4 wide with a RB (almost always Faulk), or 2 wide with 2 TE and a RB.

i think i recall reading a snap breakdown from 08/09 and recall seeing that when morris and maroney were both healthy that they ran 2RB sets about 1/3rd of the time. trying to find the stats now

 

[Adebisi]

Morris is 32 years old, Taylor is 33 and both have an extensive injury history. Faulk is also 33. I think a healthy Maroney will be getting the lions share of the carries in 1-back sets and Morris/Taylor/Faulk will all see action in 2-back sets. Overall, I'm not sure I'd want to depend on any of them on my fantasy roster this year except as a very late round gamble.

The Pats don't use many 2 back sets . . . which makes projecting their RB production even more difficult. They normally use 3 wide with a TE and a RB, 4 wide with a RB (almost always Faulk), or 2 wide with 2 TE and a RB.

i think i recall reading a snap breakdown from 08/09 and recall seeing that when morris and maroney were both healthy that they ran 2RB sets about 1/3rd of the time. trying to find the stats now

Key differences would include Heath Evans's presence on the roster in 2008 and the fact that they altered their scheming for Matt Cassel. I think you'll get a more accurate picture looking at the 2007 breakdown.

 

[rzrback77]

Another good news bad news situation with the Patriots backfield. If they do have injuries or they do decide to give the lion's share of the carries to one guy, then you will have a very very cheap productive RB. However the chances of that are slim and none. They have a collection of over the hill guys along with a continual disappointment. Even though he is currently 4th on the depth chart, Maroney is really the only one that could be the work horse back.

Fred Taylor is 33 years old entering the season. He had 143 carries a year ago for the Jags and only one game with over 20 carries. The year before that he had 223 carries, but only three games with over twenty. In addition to his age of 33 years, he has had 2,428 career NFL rushes.

Kevin Faulk enters the season at 33 years old also. He has had only two NFL seasons out of ten where he has over 100 carries in a season. He is an awesome third down back, but he is also well past that age where trouble comes to RBs. He has averaged almost 50 receptions per year for the last three seasons in New England and without injury should see a lot of opportunities in third down situations, limiting anybody else from being a bell cow back.

Sammy Morris is only 32 years old entering the year. He also has two seasons with over 100 carries, but one of those was last year with the Patriots. He eclipsed twenty carries in only one game, the last one in the regular season.

Laurence Maroney is 24 years old entering the season, much younger than most would expect. He was the Patriots first round pick in 06. He played in only three games a year ago, but had 175 and 185 rushing attempts in his first two seasons. He had four games with over twenty carries in his second season after sharing the load with Corey Dillon in his rookie season.

I put the chances at reaching bell cow status for the four prospects at :

Taylor 8%

Morris 6%

Faulk 2%

Maroney 14%

All year long RBBC 70%

 

[BBRULE]

I think it's unlikely that any Pats RB is the Bellcow, but if one is going to have value I think it will be Maroney. Why? He is the youngest and most talented on the team. Fred Taylor is a has been, Morris a never was and Faulk well he should continue his roll. If the Pats use Maroney this season as they have so far in his career he will get about 13 carries a game at about 4.3 YPC. Over 15 games, since he isn't known for being the toughest guy thats 195 carries.

Maroney 195-840-6

I think Faulk gets about 50 carries this year. With the Pats averaging 420 RB carries over the last 3 seasons that leaves around 175 to be split with Taylor and Morris. Injury will decide who gets more IMO. If BOTH were to go down Maroney could be the steal of FF drafts.

 

[David Yudkin]

I had started a thread a while ago on the same topic HERE.

There's also a lengthy thread devoted to Maroney HERE.

A couple more pages on NE backs HERE.

 

[David Yudkin]

And I had this to point out in yet another thread . . .

YPC over the past 3 years in New England:

Kevin Faulk 5.26

Sammy Morris 4.61

LaMont Jordan 4.54

Laurence Maroney 4.31

(Fred Taylor in JAX 4.86)

Touches per TD over the past 3 years in New England:

Ben Jarvis Green Ellis 15.4

Corey Dillon 16.3

Kyle Eckel 17.0

LaMont Jordan 20.0

Heath Evans 21.5

Sammy Morris 26.4

Kevin Faulk 31.8

Lawrence Maroney 31.8

(Fred Taylor in JAX 53.8)

Fantasy PPG in NE over the past 3 years:

Corey Dillon 10.87

Sammy Morris 10.04

Laurence Maroney 9.21

LaMont Jordan 7.53

Ben Jarvis Green Ellis 6.80

Kevin Faulk 5.91

(Fred Taylor in JAX 9.35)

 

[Adebisi]

Where does this term "bell cow" come from?

 

[Jman]

It's the one you get the "milk" from every day.

 

[BBRULE]

And I had this to point out in yet another thread . . .YPC over the past 3 years in New England:Kevin Faulk 5.26 Sammy Morris 4.61 LaMont Jordan 4.54 Laurence Maroney 4.31 (Fred Taylor in JAX 4.86)Touches per TD over the past 3 years in New England:Ben Jarvis Green Ellis 15.4Corey Dillon 16.3Kyle Eckel 17.0LaMont Jordan 20.0Heath Evans 21.5Sammy Morris 26.4Kevin Faulk 31.8Lawrence Maroney 31.8(Fred Taylor in JAX 53.8)Fantasy PPG in NE over the past 3 years:Corey Dillon 10.87Sammy Morris 10.04Laurence Maroney 9.21LaMont Jordan 7.53Ben Jarvis Green Ellis 6.80Kevin Faulk 5.91(Fred Taylor in JAX 9.35)

You keep pointing out these stats to me David, and I do respect your opinions, but, I don't agree with all of them. YPC is not always a true indication of talent or Tatum Bell and his career YPC would still be in the league. Touches/TD reflects who gets what carries more than anything to me. Fantasy PPG is interesting too but really Maroneys must go up if you take out weeks 2 and 3 from last season when he had a broken shoulder. Faulk has played more snaps than any other NE RB over the last 3 years is another thing you like to point out but really he is the only RB who has played ALL 3 years, Maroney gets more snaps than other RBs when he plays which was pointed out by another poster in another thread. I'm going more on my feeling that Taylor is done. Morris never was more than a run straight ahead player. Faulk will have a role, but if healthy, which is a question mark for all NE RBs, Maroney is the only one capable of being a playmaker. Side note, you have posted before about what your sources say as far as using the backs series to series will go. Is there any whispers about Morris or Faulk or even Taylor being cut before the season starts? I know, I know seems impossible but I would have said the same thing about Milloy years ago. Just wondering if maybe they would keep BJGE instead of one of the older RBs.

 

[David Yudkin]

Side note, you have posted before about what your sources say as far as using the backs series to series will go. Is there any whispers about Morris or Faulk or even Taylor being cut before the season starts? I know, I know seems impossible but I would have said the same thing about Milloy years ago. Just wondering if maybe they would keep BJGE instead of one of the older RBs.

The point of all the numbers was that I hear all the time how much better Maroney has been than anyone else on the roster and the numbers do not support that. Yes, we can all agree the last month of 2007 he did very well, but his body of work before and after has not been stellar. Overall, these guys all played behind the same line and for the most part under the same circumstances. The only one that was slightly different was Faulk, who was not really around to run in running situations.The only whisper I heard about anyone being cut was actually Maroney, but that was considered a longshot. If a RB is to go, it most likely would be BJGE.As for Maroney, he's been hurt every season and from a variety of injuries. Injuries are hard to predict, but for guys that are banged up all the time health is just as difficult to predict.I still think that the whole story has not come out on Maroney and the broken bone was a piece of the puzzle. IMO, if that were all there was, then Maroney would have gone back to the head of the RB class. Yet from all accounts he's almost at the bottom and has been relegated to kick return duty.For the most part, kickoff guys on the Pats have not been guys that saw the ball a ton. True, Troy Brown and Wes Welker have returned punts, but you really haven't seen heavy workload RBs returning kicks. Who knows, maybe this is a motivational thing to get Maroney to prove that he's hungry, I don't know.Overall, in spite of his age, I still think Morris has been the most consistent producer and fits the profile for what the Pats really want out of a running back. He goes north and south not east and west. I think the Taylor signing was a bit odd in that style wise he's more along the lines of Maroney (more speed and finesse than lower the shoulder and move the pile).That to me also is a sign that something's up with Maroney. They brought in a past his prime vet, paid him triple what Maroney gets, and the two will vie for the same type of touches (between the 20s, not a lot of short yardge/goal line stuff, little invovement on passing downs). If Taylor were done, I don't think the Pats would have bothered signing him. At that point, there were still plenty of FA RBs to chose from (including Lamont Jordan).Another thing that is onteresting with Maroney is that some folks are consenting that the other guys on the Pats will see a fair share of the workload but Maroney would somehow end up with career highs in carries, yardage, and TDs. I'm not sure that that combination could happen unless the team really shied away from passing the football (which I don't see happening).Maybe Maroney and Watson are simiular in that they had high aspirations in being first round picks a few years ago that had health issues and never really panned out. I don't see people saying that a healthy Watson is going to be a huge producer this year even with other guys added at his position. That's basically the same situation as Maroney, yet people hold out hope for Maroney but have written off Watson.Should make for an interesting year.

 

[rzrback77]

It's the one you get the "milk" from every day.

ie reliable and always there

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Where does this term "bell cow" come from?

I don't know, but I really wish it would go back there.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Side note, you have posted before about what your sources say as far as using the backs series to series will go. Is there any whispers about Morris or Faulk or even Taylor being cut before the season starts? I know, I know seems impossible but I would have said the same thing about Milloy years ago. Just wondering if maybe they would keep BJGE instead of one of the older RBs.

I believe that was a cap/contract issue, if i recall correctly.There is really no compelling reason to cut any of those guys, barring really problematic attitudes, or some kind of numbers game at another position --- of course, there can always be surprise cuts.

 

[Adebisi]

Maroney gets more snaps than other RBs when he plays

I'm not sure where you're getting this. I don't know about snaps, but it's certainly not true for attempts.

 

[Adebisi]

For the most part, kickoff guys on the Pats have not been guys that saw the ball a ton. True, Troy Brown and Wes Welker have returned punts, but you really haven't seen heavy workload RBs returning kicks.

I'd have to disagree with you pretty strongly here.During Maroney's rookie year, he split the RB load with Dillon, and took about half the kick returns as well. Kevin Faulk (25 carries/43 receptions) also took about a third of the returns.Earlier in the Belichick era, Faulk was the primary kick returner for a couple years, and then he split kick return duties with Deion Branch in '02.The years unaccounted for here are the Bethel Johnson days (always a threat to run one back, despite his shortcomings as a WR) and the recent Ellis Hobbs years (quietly one of the best return men in the league the past 2 years).

 

[David Yudkin]

For the most part, kickoff guys on the Pats have not been guys that saw the ball a ton. True, Troy Brown and Wes Welker have returned punts, but you really haven't seen heavy workload RBs returning kicks.

I'd have to disagree with you pretty strongly here.During Maroney's rookie year, he split the RB load with Dillon, and took about half the kick returns as well. Kevin Faulk (25 carries/43 receptions) also took about a third of the returns.Earlier in the Belichick era, Faulk was the primary kick returner for a couple years, and then he split kick return duties with Deion Branch in '02.The years unaccounted for here are the Bethel Johnson days (always a threat to run one back, despite his shortcomings as a WR) and the recent Ellis Hobbs years (quietly one of the best return men in the league the past 2 years).

Was there a heavy workload, 20 touch a game guy at RB that I missed as a kick returner? The closest was a partial year from Maroney as a kick returner who was a 10-12 carry back.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

For the most part, kickoff guys on the Pats have not been guys that saw the ball a ton. True, Troy Brown and Wes Welker have returned punts, but you really haven't seen heavy workload RBs returning kicks.

I'd have to disagree with you pretty strongly here.During Maroney's rookie year, he split the RB load with Dillon, and took about half the kick returns as well. Kevin Faulk (25 carries/43 receptions) also took about a third of the returns.Earlier in the Belichick era, Faulk was the primary kick returner for a couple years, and then he split kick return duties with Deion Branch in '02.The years unaccounted for here are the Bethel Johnson days (always a threat to run one back, despite his shortcomings as a WR) and the recent Ellis Hobbs years (quietly one of the best return men in the league the past 2 years).

Was there a heavy workload, 20 touch a game guy at RB that I missed as a kick returner? The closest was a partial year from Maroney as a kick returner who was a 10-12 carry back.

How many 20 touch a game RBs have they had, period, in the BB era? Two: Antowain Smith and Corey Dillon. At that point in their careers, neither guy was a likely candidate for returning kicks. I'm not sure what you are proving here.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

They brought in a past his prime vet, paid him triple what Maroney gets, and the two will vie for the same type of touches (between the 20s, not a lot of short yardge/goal line stuff, little invovement on passing downs). If Taylor were done, I don't think the Pats would have bothered signing him. At that point, there were still plenty of FA RBs to chose from (including Lamont Jordan).

I'm curious about the reasoning going on inside your head when you post something like this --- what's the relevance?I'm just assuming you're aware that Maroney is on a rookie contract that was signed 3 years ago.

Fred Taylor's salary is 1.5m --- I wouldn't call that all that exorbitant.

 

[David Yudkin]

They brought in a past his prime vet, paid him triple what Maroney gets, and the two will vie for the same type of touches (between the 20s, not a lot of short yardge/goal line stuff, little invovement on passing downs). If Taylor were done, I don't think the Pats would have bothered signing him. At that point, there were still plenty of FA RBs to chose from (including Lamont Jordan).

I'm curious about the reasoning going on inside your head when you post something like this --- what's the relevance?I'm just assuming you're aware that Maroney is on a rookie contract that was signed 3 years ago.

Fred Taylor's salary is 1.5m --- I wouldn't call that all that exorbitant.

Maroney will get $600K to play this year. Between signing bonus and salary Taylor will get $3 million.I agree what a player gets paid shouldn't matter, but the fact of the matter is that the higher paid guys get first crack at a bigger workload. Depending on the team, higher paid guys will get secord and third crack as well and only after someone bombs will he be benched.

Things might have been more promising if 1) the Pats didn't sign a RB at all, or 2) they signed someone for a minimum contract with no real hope of seeing much work, or 3) they signed a guy to be no more than RB depth but to return kicks and play on special teams. All of those IMO would have been a lot more in favor of Maroney either starting or getting a big work load. But none of those happened. Instead, they signed Taylor for a fair amount of money (although not a ton).

There's no point in rehashing the what-could-happen discussion again, but I still think Maroney's status has slipped some and his place in the RB pecking order has taken a decent hit compared to other seasons.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Although I have never seen you concede a point on this board, and this entire tangent is an irrelevant nitpick to begin with, I would like to know which amount seems greater to you:

(by the way -- big thx to Miguel for all contract info)

http://www.patscap.com/

Laurence Maroney - On 8/14 the Boston Globe's Mike Reiss reported that "Maroney's contract with the Patriots is a five-year package worth a total of $8.735 million, according to NFL Players Association figures. The deal doesn't include a signing bonus, but $6.13 million of the contract is guaranteed, and with easy-to-earn incentives it would increase to $6.2 million."

Fred Taylor - ESPN.Com's Len Pasquarelli reported that " Taylor agreed to a two-year, $5 million contract

I bolded the relevant portions in case you were too busy to read the whole thing.

 

[Instinctive]

Although I have never seen you concede a point on this board, and this entire tangent is an irrelevant nitpick to begin with, I would like to know which amount seems greater to you:

(by the way -- big thx to Miguel for all contract info)

http://www.patscap.com/

Laurence Maroney - On 8/14 the Boston Globe's Mike Reiss reported that "Maroney's contract with the Patriots is a five-year package worth a total of $8.735 million, according to NFL Players Association figures. The deal doesn't include a signing bonus, but $6.13 million of the contract is guaranteed, and with easy-to-earn incentives it would increase to $6.2 million."

Fred Taylor - ESPN.Com's Len Pasquarelli reported that " Taylor agreed to a two-year, $5 million contract

I bolded the relevant portions in case you were too busy to read the whole thing.

Maroney's conract total is irrelevant when speaking of what each player will make THIS YEAR.

 

[David Yudkin]

Although I have never seen you concede a point on this board, and this entire tangent is an irrelevant nitpick to begin with, I would like to know which amount seems greater to you:

(by the way -- big thx to Miguel for all contract info)

http://www.patscap.com/

Laurence Maroney - On 8/14 the Boston Globe's Mike Reiss reported that "Maroney's contract with the Patriots is a five-year package worth a total of $8.735 million, according to NFL Players Association figures. The deal doesn't include a signing bonus, but $6.13 million of the contract is guaranteed, and with easy-to-earn incentives it would increase to $6.2 million."

Fred Taylor - ESPN.Com's Len Pasquarelli reported that " Taylor agreed to a two-year, $5 million contract

I bolded the relevant portions in case you were too busy to read the whole thing.

I agree this is minutiae at its finest, but . . .According to Rotoworld:

FOR 2009, Taylor will receive $1.55M in salary and $1.45M in salary bonus = $3M actual cash in pocket.

FOR 2009, Maroney will receive his $600K salary and $70K in easy to earn incentives = $670K actual cash in pocket.

You can look it up yourself LINK.

According to PatsCap,

FOR 2009, Taylor will receive $1.55M in salary and $1.45M in salary bonus = $3M actual cash in pocket.

FOR 2009, Maroney will receive his $600K salary and $97K in roster bonuses = $697K actual cash in pocket.

LINK

Salary cap charges are completely different, but in terms of what these guys will take to the bank in real money, those are the numbers.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

 

[Gopher State]

I think it's unlikely that any Pats RB is the Bellcow, but if one is going to have value I think it will be Maroney. Why? He is the youngest and most talented on the team. Fred Taylor is a has been, Morris a never was and Faulk well he should continue his roll. If the Pats use Maroney this season as they have so far in his career he will get about 13 carries a game at about 4.3 YPC. Over 15 games, since he isn't known for being the toughest guy thats 195 carries.Maroney 195-840-6I think Faulk gets about 50 carries this year. With the Pats averaging 420 RB carries over the last 3 seasons that leaves around 175 to be split with Taylor and Morris. Injury will decide who gets more IMO. If BOTH were to go down Maroney could be the steal of FF drafts.

Maroney is down to returning kicks, he's got alot of work ahead of him if he's going to be the starter. I think Taylor is the RB to own for NE, he could have a Dillon type year. In the 12 team mock drafts that I have drafted in Maroney isn't even being drafted. I don't think Maroney is more talented then Taylor, he may be younger, but he's played like he's alot older, when he has been able to play.

 

[David Yudkin]

We don't lock Player Spotlight threads. But it was an interesting excursion into the bowels of oblivion.

 

[Adebisi]

For the most part, kickoff guys on the Pats have not been guys that saw the ball a ton. True, Troy Brown and Wes Welker have returned punts, but you really haven't seen heavy workload RBs returning kicks.

I'd have to disagree with you pretty strongly here.During Maroney's rookie year, he split the RB load with Dillon, and took about half the kick returns as well. Kevin Faulk (25 carries/43 receptions) also took about a third of the returns.Earlier in the Belichick era, Faulk was the primary kick returner for a couple years, and then he split kick return duties with Deion Branch in '02.The years unaccounted for here are the Bethel Johnson days (always a threat to run one back, despite his shortcomings as a WR) and the recent Ellis Hobbs years (quietly one of the best return men in the league the past 2 years).

Was there a heavy workload, 20 touch a game guy at RB that I missed as a kick returner? The closest was a partial year from Maroney as a kick returner who was a 10-12 carry back.

Um... you seemed to be implying that any Pats RB who was going to have a significant role returning kicks would not have a very big role in the offense. If that's not the point you were driving at, Corey Dillon in '04 was the only time a Patriots RB touched the ball 20 times a game, so I'm not quite sure what the significance of that statement was intended to be.

 

[David Yudkin]

For the most part, kickoff guys on the Pats have not been guys that saw the ball a ton. True, Troy Brown and Wes Welker have returned punts, but you really haven't seen heavy workload RBs returning kicks.

I'd have to disagree with you pretty strongly here.During Maroney's rookie year, he split the RB load with Dillon, and took about half the kick returns as well. Kevin Faulk (25 carries/43 receptions) also took about a third of the returns.Earlier in the Belichick era, Faulk was the primary kick returner for a couple years, and then he split kick return duties with Deion Branch in '02.The years unaccounted for here are the Bethel Johnson days (always a threat to run one back, despite his shortcomings as a WR) and the recent Ellis Hobbs years (quietly one of the best return men in the league the past 2 years).

Was there a heavy workload, 20 touch a game guy at RB that I missed as a kick returner? The closest was a partial year from Maroney as a kick returner who was a 10-12 carry back.

Um... you seemed to be implying that any Pats RB who was going to have a significant role returning kicks would not have a very big role in the offense. If that's not the point you were driving at, Corey Dillon in '04 was the only time a Patriots RB touched the ball 20 times a game, so I'm not quite sure what the significance of that statement was intended to be.

The point in general is that most teams (including the Pats) don't have heavy workload RBs returning kicks. Except for the Saints, who wonder why they have RB with injuries.Again, in general, returning kicks might help an NFL team out, but generally speaking "big fantasy producing RB" and "regular NFL kick returner" don't mix very well.I still think Maroney would be in line for more RB work if he wasn't on track to return kicks. Those two may not be hand and glove, so maybe I am way off on this one.

 

[Parmcat]

I am very late to this party.

David et al....

Can you tell me if it LOOKS like Morris may get a shot at goal line duties. Without looking it up, IIRC, Maroney and Taylor were very very below average for short yardage success.

This has been an area where Morris has been decent the last few years.

Thanks

Parm

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

The point in general is that most teams (including the Pats) don't have heavy workload RBs returning kicks. Except for the Saints, who wonder why they have RB with injuries.

 

[UnknownCoach]

Looking at the preseason and history, I can make a damn good prediction on how the backs will be rotated.

Taylor and Maroney will alternate series like in preseason game 3. If a matchup favors one style over the other or one gets hot, we might see more of one in a certain game but expect a pretty even split while they are both healthy. Taylor should start the first series in most games. Its really the besy way to use Taylor at this point in his career. Game one they rested the 33 y/o veteran. The second game they got their first look at Taylor in a game. The third game they really showed their cards. The fourth game we probably wont see much of either.

Faulk will return to his normal role playing mostly in the wide spread formations. He got a little extra time last year due to injuries. Expect touches closer to career averages.

Morris I expect will be a game day scratch until someone else is hurt.

Looks a lot like Tampa Bay coaches are descibing their intention. Until someone gets hurt, this wont be a good situation for fantasy.

As far as Maroney returning kicks, Kevin Faulk used to do that. Bush does it in New Orleans. It further shows the RBBC card but it doesnt mean Maroney wont be running the ball as much as Taylor.

 

[David Yudkin]

I am very late to this party.David et al....Can you tell me if it LOOKS like Morris may get a shot at goal line duties. Without looking it up, IIRC, Maroney and Taylor were very very below average for short yardage success.This has been an area where Morris has been decent the last few years.ThanksParm

If Morris is healthy (in the immediate future), he will most like be the short yardage and goal line back. If he is not healthy (in the immediate future), he could get get altogether.I know BB loves Morris because his effort and straight ahead rushing style is exactly what they want from their backs, so I don't hink Morris would get cut (unless it looks like he would miss a chunk of the season).As for whoever suggested that Morris would be a game day scratch/inactive most weeks, I really don't see that. Morris is the one back they have that can serve all the roles for RB (all downs, all field position, all situations).

 

[UnknownCoach]

They arent going to activate 4 backs just so they can have Morris for short yardage. It wont happen. Morris's somewhat all-purpose (he's really not that good at everythign) is what will keep him on the roster while he waits for another back to get hurt.

 

[David Yudkin]

They arent going to activate 4 backs just so they can have Morris for short yardage. It wont happen. Morris's somewhat all-purpose (he's really not that good at everythign) is what will keep him on the roster while he waits for another back to get hurt.

They don'e have a fullback. Many other teams would normally dress a FB, a specialist (short yardage/third down/COP), a tailback, and a backup. And Maroney doubles as a special teamer.In 2007, they suited up Maroney, Morris, Faulk and Evans when all were healthy.Last year, it was Maroney, Morris, Faulk, Jordan, and Evans some weeks (and BJGE once people got hurt) . . . which is 5 RB.

 

[Splicer]

Maroney looks like a different player this pre-season. He may be looking at his last chance.

 

[FF EGGHEAD]

Maroney looks like a different player this pre-season. He may be looking at his last chance.

The little I saw had him "dancing" rather than hitting the hole which has been his problem.Do you think Maroney is worth holding on as an RB6 in a ppr re-draft league?I didn't like what I saw last night and am considering dropping him for James Davis .Any advice?

 

[David Yudkin]

After the third preseason game, I'm hearing a wide range of things about Maroney. Some folks think the Pats really want him to be the lead dog with the other guys as simply rounding out the field. Some folks think Maroney has seen a lot of game time in the preseason because he's on the bubble and the team is deciding if they want to cut him or not. But the one I go with the most is still saying RBBC . . . learn it, love it, embrace it as that has been the plan all of training camp and there's no signs of them wanting to change their philosophy.

 

[Sleeping King]

The most important note on Maroney last night was him being active in the passing game. If he can mix that in to his game like he showed his rookie season he can still have a lot of value. Until Morris can show he can play I would project what we saw last night to play out. In and out series for Taylor-Maroney.

And the point about Maroney not being a major part of the offense because he may return kickoffs is asinine. 2006 was his best season as a pro and guess what...he returned kicks. He can handle both duties if need be. Slater will more than likely be the primary kick return man anyway.

 

[David Yudkin]

Morris is back to practice and is no longer wearing a no contact jersey. Barring another set back, this will dramatically help him in making the final roster provided he is healed and productive (he was considered on the bubble at one point).

 

[David Yudkin]

Not that it matters much, but the Pats web site lists the RB depth chart as follows:

Morris first team

FTaylor and Faulk second string

Maroney, Law Firm, CTaylor third string

At this point I don't think there is a set depth chart and it will change based on who is healthy from week to week . . .

 

[Devil in the Detail]

Based off of the reps at camp, I think Taylor is #1, even with Morris back. I think we'll see a Dillon-like resurgence. 1150 total yards, 7tds, top 30 finish.

 

[Gr00vus]

Not that it matters much, but the Pats web site lists the RB depth chart as follows:Morris first teamFTaylor and Faulk second stringMaroney, Law Firm, CTaylor third stringAt this point I don't think there is a set depth chart and it will change based on who is healthy from week to week . . .

What does the Yudkin website list the depth chart as?

 

[PatrickT]

Where does this term "bell cow" come from?

From a trivial pursuit perspective, the term bell cow refers to herding cows. Ranchers would select one cow (for whatever reason) to be the lead cow. They would place a bell on that cow, then train the other cows to essentially follow the bell. So the "bell cow" is the "lead cow", and the "bell cow" RB is known as the RB that will get the most carries.Now back to your regularly scheduled programming. Which needs more cowbell.

 

[hostile]

What to make of this from Rotoworld via the Boston Globe?:

Beat reporter Mike Reiss indicates that Sammy Morris may have been passed on the Patriots' depth chart by BenJarvus Green-Ellis.Morris just recently returned to practice after missing 20 days, while Green-Ellis has torn up the preseason with a 6.2 YPC average on a team-high 20 rushing attempts. BGE plays special teams and offers just as much power as Morris on the ground. There's an outside chance that Morris could be cut.

Interesting from a dynasty perspective...

 

[bocksheesh]

Seemingly lost amid the standard speculation over the Patriots running game is the status and role of Fred Taylor.

We've heard about Sammy Morris possibly being cut (see Mike Reiss) or possibly being listed #1 on the depth chart (Yudkin's reference to Pats website). We've heard about Green-Ellis having a great preseason (against backup defenses, but whatever) but we've heard that he could potentially get cut (he didn't).

Lawrence Maroney has been mentioned as possibly being relegated to returning kicks on special teams. And we've heard that Kevin Faulk is gonna catch a lot of passes as the 3rd down back.

The only guy very little if anything has been heard about is Fred Taylor. Is there any word on this guy?