Point Per Reception League (1 Viewer)

[phillymatrix]

Hey, this will be my first year entering a league that counts point per reception,I have done some reading on the subject and understand it was originally produced to bring more value to the te and 3rd down rb position and just to raise overall competition in the game. My question is does point per reception make a back like say Brian Westbrook who I would normally think of as a late 2rd to 3rd rb grab on the same level fantasy wise mind you as a Rudi Johnson who I would normally take ahead of a back like Westbrook. In this type of league would Torry Holt or any elite wideout that sees alot of rec per game like a Chad Johnson for instance be considered a late 1st rd choice over a above average but not elite back say for example Julius Jones. It seems obvious that certain backs with excellent pass catching skills like Lamont Jordan,Tiki Barber and Domanick Davis go up in rank some,but how much more? I would welcome opinions and stradegies(spelling?)

 

[inca911]

Yes, it does make a difference. How much? Well, the Westbrooks and Jordans are catching 60ish balls a year, which equates to roughly 40 points more in fantasy production (~3 points per game). With typical scoring, that's like adding 30 yards to every single game for these players.

Specifically, I'd say Westy is actually a bit more valuable that Rudi in ppr format. Plus they claim they're going to run more this year.

Not having the numbers handy, I'd also bet Chad is more valuable than JuJones from a VBD standpoint (performance is much higher compared to other WRs).

 

[Capt Hook]

PPR does make Westy more valuable than Rudi - and likely puts him end of the first round - sometimes sliding to the top of the second.

Virtually none of the top WR are drafted in the first round - at the corner it really doesn't matter except for ADP #s whether you go WR-RB or RB-WR.

There are those who occasionally try WR-WR at the turn, but that is not usually successful.

The stud TE (if there are really any left this year - I don't expect Gates or Gonzo to be up to previous year's numbers) are important and generally 3rd round picks.

The exception would be where the TE PPR are higher than RB or WR.

You can take a look in the Mock Forum at the SSL drafts, but remember that there the TE are getting 2ppr while the RB/WR are only getting 1ppr

 

[Uruk-Hai]

It also changes things a ton if you use flex players. All of a sudden, starting a 4th WR in stead of a 3rd RB isn't such an act of desperation.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

The 20th WR is now comparable to about the 15th RB.

From last year, that equates to about Donte' Stallworth == Reuben Droughns.

RBs who catch a lot of passes (Westy, LamJordan)

RBs who catch few (Jamal Lewis)

WRs who are possession receivers / yardage guys (Rod Smith)

In general, WRs go up in comparison to RBs. Some players become more startable than in FBG standard scoring leagues.

 

[John Mamula]

Hey, this will be my first year entering a league that counts point per reception,I have done some reading on the subject and understand it was originally produced to bring more value to the te and 3rd down rb position and just to raise overall competition in the game. My question is does point per reception make a back like say Brian Westbrook who I would normally think of as a late 2rd to 3rd rb grab on the same level fantasy wise mind you as a Rudi Johnson who I would normally take ahead of a back like Westbrook. In this type of league would Torry Holt or any elite wideout that sees alot of rec per game like a Chad Johnson for instance be considered a late 1st rd choice over a above average but not elite back say for example Julius Jones. It seems obvious that certain backs with excellent pass catching skills like Lamont Jordan,Tiki Barber and Domanick Davis go up in rank some,but how much more? I would welcome opinions and stradegies(spelling?)

The questions you raise are why it is imperative for people to do their own projections. If you do your own, with a simple adjustment to scoring changes you immediately see the value of certain RBs skyrocket.Yes, Westbrook is a clear step up over Rudi in PPR leagues. WRs also start to take more of an importance over late 2nd/early 3rd round backs and there is typically more value in the 4th round with RBs such as Droughns who will do just as well as a late second / early thrid round back but you now also have an elite WR to go with it.

If you are in a flex league like WCOFF then WRs are even more important.

 

[T Man]

Hey, this will be my first year entering a league that counts point per reception,I have done some reading on the subject and understand it was originally produced to bring more value to the te and 3rd down rb position and just to raise overall competition in the game. My question is does point per reception make a back like say Brian Westbrook who I would normally think of as a late 2rd to 3rd rb grab on the same level fantasy wise mind you as a Rudi Johnson who I would normally take ahead of a back like Westbrook. In this type of league would Torry Holt or any elite wideout that sees alot of rec per game like a Chad Johnson for instance be considered a late 1st rd choice over a above average but not elite back say for example Julius Jones. It seems obvious that certain backs with excellent pass catching skills like Lamont Jordan,Tiki Barber and Domanick Davis go up in rank some,but how much more? I would welcome opinions and stradegies(spelling?)

I think you'll enjoy PPR leagues as it increases the talent pool. Yes, a RB who also catches a lot of balls leapfrogs the workhorse RB who simply plods along. The other thing is that it increases the value of possession receivers. These receivers may not gain a lot of yardage but a 6 catch 60 yard performance is now worth 12 points instead of 6.

In creating projections, if the same system is in place and the same QB, you should look at targets per game.

IMHO inn PPR leagues its not as criticall to go RB, RB in rounds 1-2; now you can take a shot at a big WR who is expected to get a lot of targets.

 

[phillymatrix]

Hey, this will be my first year entering a league that counts point per reception,I have done some reading on the subject and understand it was originally produced to bring more value to the te and 3rd down rb position and just to raise overall competition in the game. My question is does point per reception make a back like say Brian Westbrook who I would normally think of as a late 2rd to 3rd rb grab on the same level fantasy wise mind you as a Rudi Johnson who I would normally take ahead of a back like Westbrook. In this type of league would Torry Holt or any elite wideout that sees alot of rec per game like a Chad Johnson for instance be considered a late 1st rd choice over a above average but not elite back say for example Julius Jones. It seems obvious that certain backs with excellent pass catching skills like Lamont Jordan,Tiki Barber and Domanick Davis go up in rank some,but how much more? I would welcome opinions and stradegies(spelling?)

I think you'll enjoy PPR leagues as it increases the talent pool. Yes, a RB who also catches a lot of balls leapfrogs the workhorse RB who simply plods along. The other thing is that it increases the value of possession receivers. These receivers may not gain a lot of yardage but a 6 catch 60 yard performance is now worth 12 points instead of 6.

In creating projections, if the same system is in place and the same QB, you should look at targets per game.

IMHO inn PPR leagues its not as criticall to go RB, RB in rounds 1-2; now you can take a shot at a big WR who is expected to get a lot of targets.

I was thinking about passing up the usual rb-rb strategy as a matter of fact.I was thinking of going 1) p.manning 2)r.moss 3)rb . your info was very helpful thanx.

 

[sib]

Hey, this will be my first year entering a league that counts point per reception,I have done some reading on the subject and understand it was originally produced to bring more value to the te and 3rd down rb position and just to raise overall competition in the game. My question is does point per reception make a back like say Brian Westbrook who I would normally think of as a late 2rd to 3rd rb grab on the same level fantasy wise mind you as a Rudi Johnson who I would normally take ahead of a back like Westbrook. In this type of league would Torry Holt or any elite wideout that sees alot of rec per game like a Chad Johnson for instance be considered a late 1st rd choice over a above average but not elite back say for example Julius Jones. It seems obvious that certain backs with excellent pass catching skills like Lamont Jordan,Tiki Barber and Domanick Davis go up in rank some,but how much more? I would welcome opinions and stradegies(spelling?)

A a few years ago (maybe 2002), in my PPR league I didn't have 2 great RBs. I had Ahman Green and some bum. Ahman was OK that year, but was dinged up. However, I won the league because I had great pass-catchers (Driver in his first break-out year, TO, Chad Johnson in his first 1000 yd season, and Todd Heap in his first breakout year). I did make some good FA signings like Matt Hasselbeck when he was on fire for his stretch run in 2k2. But what opened my eyes is that I didn't need 2 great RBs to win..heck i won with a good RB and a bum.The next year in 2k3 I tried to emulate the same thing. My keeper was Terrell Owens. Since I had the last pick in the first round and the first pick in the 2nd round I picked Eric Moulds and Randy Moss back to back. I then drafted Onterrio Smith and drafted Chad Johnson. I ended up trading Chad Johnson for Tiki Barber and later traded Tiki and TO for Hines Ward and Travis Henry. I had T Green at QB, Travis Henry at RB spot..a nobody at the other RB spot..Ward, Randy Moss, Eric Moulds at WR..Shannon Sharpe at TE. Moss was a monster that year and Sharpe was pretty good also. I ended up in 2nd place..and I might've won it all if Eric Moulds wasn't gimpy all year with a groin issue.

Moral of the story..in a PPR league some of these stud WR can carry you a long way. If you drafted Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, and either of the AZ WR, I bet you had a real good year in a PPR league.

 

[phillymatrix]

Hey, this will be my first year entering a league that counts point per reception,I have done some reading on the subject and understand it was originally produced to bring more value to the te and 3rd down rb position and just to raise overall competition in the game. My question is does point per reception make a back like say Brian Westbrook who I would normally think of as a late 2rd to 3rd rb grab on the same level fantasy wise mind you as a Rudi Johnson who I would normally take ahead of a back like Westbrook. In this type of league would Torry Holt or any elite wideout that sees alot of rec per game like a Chad Johnson for instance be considered a late 1st rd choice over a above average but not elite back say for example Julius Jones. It seems obvious that certain backs with excellent pass catching skills like Lamont Jordan,Tiki Barber and Domanick Davis go up in rank some,but how much more? I would welcome opinions and stradegies(spelling?)

A a few years ago (maybe 2002), in my PPR league I didn't have 2 great RBs. I had Ahman Green and some bum. Ahman was OK that year, but was dinged up. However, I won the league because I had great pass-catchers (Driver in his first break-out year, TO, Chad Johnson in his first 1000 yd season, and Todd Heap in his first breakout year). I did make some good FA signings like Matt Hasselbeck when he was on fire for his stretch run in 2k2. But what opened my eyes is that I didn't need 2 great RBs to win..heck i won with a good RB and a bum.The next year in 2k3 I tried to emulate the same thing. My keeper was Terrell Owens. Since I had the last pick in the first round and the first pick in the 2nd round I picked Eric Moulds and Randy Moss back to back. I then drafted Onterrio Smith and drafted Chad Johnson. I ended up trading Chad Johnson for Tiki Barber and later traded Tiki and TO for Hines Ward and Travis Henry. I had T Green at QB, Travis Henry at RB spot..a nobody at the other RB spot..Ward, Randy Moss, Eric Moulds at WR..Shannon Sharpe at TE. Moss was a monster that year and Sharpe was pretty good also. I ended up in 2nd place..and I might've won it all if Eric Moulds wasn't gimpy all year with a groin issue.

Moral of the story..in a PPR league some of these stud WR can carry you a long way. If you drafted Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, and either of the AZ WR, I bet you had a real good year in a PPR league.

Your story is very interesting. I have been considering some really radical strategies like you have mentioned. Would it be completly idiotic to go something like a 1) T.O. 2) Moss 3) Lets say Roy Williams and then according to your plan pick up a mediocre rbs in rds 4,5,6, (three must start) like say a D.Foster ,D.mcallister, and lets say R.Dayne or a F.GORE. I would never consider this in a standard scoring league but this seems like it could work in a ppr league.

 

[sib]

Hey, this will be my first year entering a league that counts point per reception,I have done some reading on the subject and understand it was originally produced to bring more value to the te and 3rd down rb position and just to raise overall competition in the game. My question is does point per reception make a back like say Brian Westbrook who I would normally think of as a late 2rd to 3rd rb grab on the same level fantasy wise mind you as a Rudi Johnson who I would normally take ahead of a back like Westbrook. In this type of league would Torry Holt or any elite wideout that sees alot of rec per game like a Chad Johnson for instance be considered a late 1st rd choice over a above average but not elite back say for example Julius Jones. It seems obvious that certain backs with excellent pass catching skills like Lamont Jordan,Tiki Barber and Domanick Davis go up in rank some,but how much more? I would welcome opinions and stradegies(spelling?)

A a few years ago (maybe 2002), in my PPR league I didn't have 2 great RBs. I had Ahman Green and some bum. Ahman was OK that year, but was dinged up. However, I won the league because I had great pass-catchers (Driver in his first break-out year, TO, Chad Johnson in his first 1000 yd season, and Todd Heap in his first breakout year). I did make some good FA signings like Matt Hasselbeck when he was on fire for his stretch run in 2k2. But what opened my eyes is that I didn't need 2 great RBs to win..heck i won with a good RB and a bum.The next year in 2k3 I tried to emulate the same thing. My keeper was Terrell Owens. Since I had the last pick in the first round and the first pick in the 2nd round I picked Eric Moulds and Randy Moss back to back. I then drafted Onterrio Smith and drafted Chad Johnson. I ended up trading Chad Johnson for Tiki Barber and later traded Tiki and TO for Hines Ward and Travis Henry. I had T Green at QB, Travis Henry at RB spot..a nobody at the other RB spot..Ward, Randy Moss, Eric Moulds at WR..Shannon Sharpe at TE. Moss was a monster that year and Sharpe was pretty good also. I ended up in 2nd place..and I might've won it all if Eric Moulds wasn't gimpy all year with a groin issue.

Moral of the story..in a PPR league some of these stud WR can carry you a long way. If you drafted Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, and either of the AZ WR, I bet you had a real good year in a PPR league.

Your story is very interesting. I have been considering some really radical strategies like you have mentioned. Would it be completly idiotic to go something like a 1) T.O. 2) Moss 3) Lets say Roy Williams and then according to your plan pick up a mediocre rbs in rds 4,5,6, (three must start) like say a D.Foster ,D.mcallister, and lets say R.Dayne or a F.GORE. I would never consider this in a standard scoring league but this seems like it could work in a ppr league.

I don't think I would take 3 WR right off the bat. That takes some serious stones. I could see myself doing WR > WR > QB (if a guy like Peyton Manning was somehow on board) or more likely WR > WR > RB. To me one of the keys to this strategy is to lock down the RB situation since you won't be getting any studs. Example:1st round: Steve Smith

2nd round: Torry Holt

3rd round: Thomas Jones

4th round: Donovan Mcnabb

5th round: Cedric Benson

6th round: Jeremy Shockey

So after 5 rounds you have 2 of the top-rated pass catchers, a potentially very good fantasy QB, a very good pass-catching TE, and you've locked down a potentially great running game. I think that is a fairly realistic draft one could pull off. Other RB situations to target late if you're going to go with this approach include GB, SF, PIT, DEN, TEN, NYJ.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

It depends on your draft position, but I'd expect 5-6 WRs gone in the first 24 picks.

RB/WR/RB/WR is an option, depending on your starter requirements.

You might want to check out the SSLs in the Mock Draft Forum to see what's goin' down over there. Four drafts of 16 team leagues, all with PPR. 1/2/3/1/1/1 starters. rules at the top of the forum.

Usually grabbing a stud RB in round 1 is a good option, then getting a WR on your next pick is the way to go. Not always, but it does get you some good value. WRs are far deeper than you'd expect after the first 6 and then next 10-20, so RB/WR/RB/WR or R/W/W/R might be good patterns. QBs can usually wait.

Gates and Manning add wrinkles if they fall to you.

Check out the SSLs and run a few mocks to see what happens.

 

[doomsdaydoc]

1 ppr is especially important in judging RBs- When u have a back who does not catch passes such as Dillon, Lewis, etc- if they do not score in a particular game, their point totals could be as little as 8-10. When you have a guy like Barber, Jordan, Westbrook, etc- then you could get 4-5 points a week just from the receptions. If you have a back who does it all- catches, gets goalline carries and yards, then you have a great combo- like LT. but last season's stud- Alexander did it on the basis of a ridiculous amount of TDs- If he had only 15 tds, he would have been only a good back since he did not catch much.

 

[Kleck]

Best article I've ever written (from 2003). A study of what the differences are when you add +1 per reception.

http://www.footballguys.com/shakeupyourleague.htm

 

[toxicbees]

What about 1ppr for WRs/TEs and 0.5ppr for RBs? I think this type of scoring really starts to improve the value of WRs.

 

[Bri]

I think "off weeks" are shielded pretty well in PPR and you can even sneak a win those weeks. In non ppr, you've just got an L with little hope at all.

 

[ravnzfan]

there has been some good discussion thus far....in summary:

--pass catching RB's like Tiki,LJordan, Westy and DDavis move up several spots to almost 1 round in value

I'd recomend pulling last years RB results from your leagues web site and "adjust" the results to include the PPR---then re-rank the RB's for this year, w/projections including the PPR, so you can "see" in what order the RB's come off the board...as Jeff suggested, guys w/few receptions should slip a round or 2 in value

as a quick VBD exercise, draw a line at RB24, if you are a "12 team- start 2RB league"...you'll want your starters from this group

--high volume WR's (SSmith, CJ, Harrison and Holt) get bumped in value alittle, as they close the gap on "tier 2 RB's"...do the same for the WR's as RB's, in checking last years numbers

add the WR's back from injury/suspension (TO, Walker) in your projections for this year and draw the line @WR36

while this isn't a VBD lesson, you get a better feel for the value of the players in relation to each other, as there is no hard and fast rule about 3 straight WR's, or RB-WR-RB-WR in drafting

the important thing is to get the order of the players straight w/in their position FIRST, then worry about who to take as you find out your draft position and the draft begins to unfold

--TE's aren't so much of an after thought, and it's important to make adjustments for the rankings of guys that catch more TD's (Crump and Bubba Franks come to mind) as compared to those w/a high number of receptions

--QB's...more than any year, I see from ~QB6-14 tight as a gnats a-ss...if you don't take one of the Manning bros or 1 of the other top couple guys....WAIT, and fill the starting roster of position players and take the best available QB round 6 or 7

good luck!

 

[inca911]

Best article I've ever written (from 2003). A study of what the differences are when you add +1 per reception.

http://www.footballguys.com/shakeupyourleague.htm

If you change to +2 ppr for TEs, moving to TE/WR flex positions also changes the balance, making weekly TE plays quite interesting.

 

[Keg]

Hey, this will be my first year entering a league that counts point per reception,I have done some reading on the subject and understand it was originally produced to bring more value to the te and 3rd down rb position and just to raise overall competition in the game. My question is does point per reception make a back like say Brian Westbrook who I would normally think of as a late 2rd to 3rd rb grab on the same level fantasy wise mind you as a Rudi Johnson who I would normally take ahead of a back like Westbrook. In this type of league would Torry Holt or any elite wideout that sees alot of rec per game like a Chad Johnson for instance be considered a late 1st rd choice over a above average but not elite back say for example Julius Jones. It seems obvious that certain backs with excellent pass catching skills like Lamont Jordan,Tiki Barber and Domanick Davis go up in rank some,but how much more? I would welcome opinions and stradegies(spelling?)

A a few years ago (maybe 2002), in my PPR league I didn't have 2 great RBs. I had Ahman Green and some bum. Ahman was OK that year, but was dinged up. However, I won the league because I had great pass-catchers (Driver in his first break-out year, TO, Chad Johnson in his first 1000 yd season, and Todd Heap in his first breakout year). I did make some good FA signings like Matt Hasselbeck when he was on fire for his stretch run in 2k2. But what opened my eyes is that I didn't need 2 great RBs to win..heck i won with a good RB and a bum.The next year in 2k3 I tried to emulate the same thing. My keeper was Terrell Owens. Since I had the last pick in the first round and the first pick in the 2nd round I picked Eric Moulds and Randy Moss back to back. I then drafted Onterrio Smith and drafted Chad Johnson. I ended up trading Chad Johnson for Tiki Barber and later traded Tiki and TO for Hines Ward and Travis Henry. I had T Green at QB, Travis Henry at RB spot..a nobody at the other RB spot..Ward, Randy Moss, Eric Moulds at WR..Shannon Sharpe at TE. Moss was a monster that year and Sharpe was pretty good also. I ended up in 2nd place..and I might've won it all if Eric Moulds wasn't gimpy all year with a groin issue.

Moral of the story..in a PPR league some of these stud WR can carry you a long way. If you drafted Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, and either of the AZ WR, I bet you had a real good year in a PPR league.

Your story is very interesting. I have been considering some really radical strategies like you have mentioned. Would it be completly idiotic to go something like a 1) T.O. 2) Moss 3) Lets say Roy Williams and then according to your plan pick up a mediocre rbs in rds 4,5,6, (three must start) like say a D.Foster ,D.mcallister, and lets say R.Dayne or a F.GORE. I would never consider this in a standard scoring league but this seems like it could work in a ppr league.

in 2003 we added PPR to our league(1 player keeper) i drafted i think 8 out of 10cant remember if i kept moss or harrison but i kept one and got the other on the way back....then went RB RB RB WR WR WR QB RB QB K D K D

so it looked like this

Harrison

Moss

TIKI BARBER(back when he was undervalued)

Garner

Hambrick

Bruce

J Smith

Keyshawn(key and jimmy might have swaped spots...jimmy had a 4 game susp)

McNair

Shipp

Brad Johnson

Vandy

Atl

K(cant remember)

D(cant remember)

We Started: 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1K, 1D

I ended up nabbing Steve Smith off waiver and I had to play the pick up a D off waivers almost weekly but i ended up winning the league and scoring the most points for the year that yr too