Points Per Completion (1 Viewer)

[bennettjd13]

I'm in a points per completion league for the second year now and wanted some other people's opinions on the format. In my opinion, having a more consistent QB helps, but it doesn't really change my draft strategy. I think waiting on a QB is still not a big deal as long as you don't get stuck with the bottom of the barrel QBs. Last year, solid QBs didn't generate much trade interest, and Tom Brady got traded for bits and pieces (I don't remember the exact trade details) at one point in the season after he started doing well. I feel like PPC raises all QBs, though some slightly more than others. However, I still don't see the point in spending a first round pick on a QB, and will likely wait and get a "middle of the top 12" QB or even a lower top 12 guy.

Does anyone else play in this format? Anyone have some pros/cons for it or anything like that?

I posted this here and not in the Assistant Coach forum because I'm not really seeking advice, just wondering what the varied opinions are on the format.

 

[mquinnjr]

And here I am thinking there wasn't a format out there where Alex Smith could ever thrive.

 

[VaTerp]

I'm in a points per completion league for the second year now and wanted some other people's opinions on the format. In my opinion, having a more consistent QB helps, but it doesn't really change my draft strategy. I think waiting on a QB is still not a big deal as long as you don't get stuck with the bottom of the barrel QBs. Last year, solid QBs didn't generate much trade interest, and Tom Brady got traded for bits and pieces (I don't remember the exact trade details) at one point in the season after he started doing well. I feel like PPC raises all QBs, though some slightly more than others. However, I still don't see the point in spending a first round pick on a QB, and will likely wait and get a "middle of the top 12" QB or even a lower top 12 guy.

Does anyone else play in this format? Anyone have some pros/cons for it or anything like that?

I posted this here and not in the Assistant Coach forum because I'm not really seeking advice, just wondering what the varied opinions are on the format.

My guess is you are unlikely to get many quality responses (see above). This type of scoring is used in a very small percentage of leagues and a lot of people here have an aversion to anything other than traditional/conventional scoring.

My main league gives fractional points for completions and subtracts for incompletions. So high volume and high completion percentage QBs do have some added value relative to other QBs. But as you noted, since all QBs get this boost the relative advantage is minimal. And it also depends on other aspects of your scoring system.

Overall though, it doesnt change draft strategy much. Just take a closer look at which QBs/offenses trend toward volume passing and take that into consideration in deciding between players you otherwise have ranked closely.

 

[Arodin]

Completion pts minus incompletion penalties is to my view a much more interesting scoring system. Pt/completion alone just rewards passing volume, and favors teams with poor running games and spread offenses. Comp-incomp rewards accuracy, which seems a better test of skill.

Never played on straight pt/comp setup, so can't offer any specific advice.

 

[rick6668]

Been in a Point Per Completion, -1 Per Incompletion league for over 15 years. This is a 16 team league.

It is very hard to win without a top QB and everyone knows it. This is a 3 keeper league (only can keep a player twice).

Almost all teams keep a QB if they can and the ones that are freed up are drafted first.

This is a little different because of the -1 per incompletion. A very accurate QB is a huge advantage and a bad QB can kill you with negative totals.

With your scoring, it seems more like QB's are inflated slightly, but QB's that will throw a lot will be worth more, even if they end up on not so good teams.

I'd plug your scoring into the Draft Dominator and see what it does.

For my scoring, a QB is first overall and there are 6 in the top 20.

 

[bennettjd13]

Thanks guys.

The guy with the first overall pick is taking Luck this year. I have the second pick and planned on going RB, but I'm not set in stone on that. I just highly doubt I'm taking a QB with the second overall pick. It is also a PPR league with 6 point passing TDs. QB scores were very bloated, but I feel like the drop-off between QBs wasn't so huge. I'll try out the draft dominator and see what comes out.

Tom Brady took me to the final game last year, though I ended up getting 2nd place (thanks AJ Green). If I end up taking Bell with my first pick then I will likely try and pick up Brady as well, just take my lumps for the first few weeks. I tend to not go into drafts with a hard set strategy though so this could all change within the next few days haha.

 

[VaTerp]

Thanks guys.

The guy with the first overall pick is taking Luck this year. I have the second pick and planned on going RB, but I'm not set in stone on that. I just highly doubt I'm taking a QB with the second overall pick. It is also a PPR league with 6 point passing TDs. QB scores were very bloated, but I feel like the drop-off between QBs wasn't so huge. I'll try out the draft dominator and see what comes out.

Tom Brady took me to the final game last year, though I ended up getting 2nd place (thanks AJ Green). If I end up taking Bell with my first pick then I will likely try and pick up Brady as well, just take my lumps for the first few weeks. I tend to not go into drafts with a hard set strategy though so this could all change within the next few days haha.

I don't understand this logic. Why would you target a player who is suspended for the first 4 games of the season just b/c you are taking another player who will miss the first 2 games? You are potentially setting yourself up to be in an early season hole that will be difficult to get out of.

Guys like Brees, Ryan, Stafford and others offer value in a league that awards points per completion. Again, why would you target Brady if you take Bell knowing you will already be shorthanded for the first two weeks?

 

[Arodin]

Thanks guys.

The guy with the first overall pick is taking Luck this year. I have the second pick and planned on going RB, but I'm not set in stone on that. I just highly doubt I'm taking a QB with the second overall pick. It is also a PPR league with 6 point passing TDs. QB scores were very bloated, but I feel like the drop-off between QBs wasn't so huge. I'll try out the draft dominator and see what comes out.

Tom Brady took me to the final game last year, though I ended up getting 2nd place (thanks AJ Green). If I end up taking Bell with my first pick then I will likely try and pick up Brady as well, just take my lumps for the first few weeks. I tend to not go into drafts with a hard set strategy though so this could all change within the next few days haha.

Do check the DD projections here. Between 6pt passing TDs and pts for completions, I'm thinking Aaron Rodgers may blow away the RB/WR value, even relative to a baseline later-round QB. 6pt passing TDs really stretch out the otherwise narrow differences between top QBs and marginal ones.

 

[bennettjd13]

Thanks guys.

The guy with the first overall pick is taking Luck this year. I have the second pick and planned on going RB, but I'm not set in stone on that. I just highly doubt I'm taking a QB with the second overall pick. It is also a PPR league with 6 point passing TDs. QB scores were very bloated, but I feel like the drop-off between QBs wasn't so huge. I'll try out the draft dominator and see what comes out.

Tom Brady took me to the final game last year, though I ended up getting 2nd place (thanks AJ Green). If I end up taking Bell with my first pick then I will likely try and pick up Brady as well, just take my lumps for the first few weeks. I tend to not go into drafts with a hard set strategy though so this could all change within the next few days haha.

I don't understand this logic. Why would you target a player who is suspended for the first 4 games of the season just b/c you are taking another player who will miss the first 2 games? You are potentially setting yourself up to be in an early season hole that will be difficult to get out of.

Guys like Brees, Ryan, Stafford and others offer value in a league that awards points per completion. Again, why would you target Brady if you take Bell knowing you will already be shorthanded for the first two weeks?

You're right, dumb idea. Thank you for being the voice of reason.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

It's kind of like 4 point passing TD's vs. 6 point passing TD's. The elite fantasy QB's are still the elite tier in either format, so draft strategy doesn't really change much unless you're talking about a prolific running QB.

 

[dschuler]

A league I'm in does .33 pts per completion. Can't imagine people could possibly think 1 point per completion is a good idea.

 

[Van Dyman]

A league I'm in does .33 pts per completion. Can't imagine people could possibly think 1 point per completion is a good idea.

This. A full point would be too much. I like 0.33 to 0.5 points but only if countered by negative points per incompletion. None of my leagues use it, but I'd be ok with that.

 

[Ben & Jerry's]

A league I'm in does .33 pts per completion. Can't imagine people could possibly think 1 point per completion is a good idea.

I couldn't imagine 1 point per completion either, but it wasn't mentioned.

 

[Ben & Jerry's]

It's kind of like 4 point passing TD's vs. 6 point passing TD's. The elite fantasy QB's are still the elite tier in either format, so draft strategy doesn't really change much unless you're talking about a prolific running QB.

Draft strategy certainly changes with 4pts vs 6pts for passing TDs. QBs with high TD totals are more valuable with 6 and prolific running QBs more valuable with 4.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

It's kind of like 4 point passing TD's vs. 6 point passing TD's. The elite fantasy QB's are still the elite tier in either format, so draft strategy doesn't really change much unless you're talking about a prolific running QB.

Draft strategy certainly changes with 4pts vs 6pts for passing TDs. QBs with high TD totals are more valuable with 6 and prolific running QBs more valuable with 4.

Yeah, I said that.

 

[Football Menace]

It's kind of like 4 point passing TD's vs. 6 point passing TD's. The elite fantasy QB's are still the elite tier in either format, so draft strategy doesn't really change much unless you're talking about a prolific running QB.

Draft strategy certainly changes with 4pts vs 6pts for passing TDs. QBs with high TD totals are more valuable with 6 and prolific running QBs more valuable with 4.

I've heard this point for years, but the math doesn't bear this out. 6pt vs 4pt PASSING TDS makes no difference in QB to QB comparisons, at least in the passing game. The only time 6pt vs 4pt passing TDs change anything is when you go from 4pt to 6pt, guys like Cam Newton get devalued because they no longer have the advantage of the 6pt rushing TDs. Do the math:((6×15)÷(6×50))=.300

((4×15)÷(4×50))=.300

 

[burnall]

now the more i think about 6 td vs 4td the more i still am a fan of late roudn QB'in.

it dosent spread out the QB's that much i mean if a guy scores 6 more TD's over the year he gets 12 more points.. thats les then 1 point a week difference. considering you have to take a QB much earlier I'd rather load up on guys like dez, juli, mega, lynch, foster ect whoever is falling and hopefully get a 3-4 first/second round players.and grab a few qb's late.

the point per completetion vs negitive points per incompletetion sounds interesting to me i may way to try that this year.

 

[rick6668]

now the more i think about 6 td vs 4td the more i still am a fan of late roudn QB'in.

it dosent spread out the QB's that much i mean if a guy scores 6 more TD's over the year he gets 12 more points.. thats les then 1 point a week difference. considering you have to take a QB much earlier I'd rather load up on guys like dez, juli, mega, lynch, foster ect whoever is falling and hopefully get a 3-4 first/second round players.and grab a few qb's late.

the point per completetion vs negitive points per incompletetion sounds interesting to me i may way to try that this year.

I've been trying to get rid of it in my league for years. It's terrible.

From a thread from last year regarding 2013-2014 season

QB points

P.Manning - 624

Brees - 522

Rivers - 428

Ryan - 379

Dalton - 354

Romo - 350

Roeth - 332

Luck - 318

Newton - 312

Stafford - 311

Foles - 296

Brady - 294

Wilson - 282

Palmer - 279

A. Smith - 270

Tannehill - 247

Kaep - 237

Flacco - 210

E. Manning - 162

RB
Charles - 288

WR
D.Thomas - 241

In order to compete, you MUST have a top end QB in this league. This is some crazy scoring, but just an example of where it can make a difference.
Last year in this league, 3-4 QB's were in the top 10 VBD drafting with DD.

 

[Arodin]

It's kind of like 4 point passing TD's vs. 6 point passing TD's. The elite fantasy QB's are still the elite tier in either format, so draft strategy doesn't really change much unless you're talking about a prolific running QB.

Draft strategy certainly changes with 4pts vs 6pts for passing TDs. QBs with high TD totals are more valuable with 6 and prolific running QBs more valuable with 4.

I've heard this point for years, but the math doesn't bear this out. 6pt vs 4pt PASSING TDS makes no difference in QB to QB comparisons, at least in the passing game. The only time 6pt vs 4pt passing TDs change anything is when you go from 4pt to 6pt, guys like Cam Newton get devalued because they no longer have the advantage of the 6pt rushing TDs. Do the math:((6×15)÷(6×50))=.300

((4×15)÷(4×50))=.300

Correct that 4pt vs 6pt passTDs only affects QB to QB comparison when comparing a running QB to a pocket QB. But it makes a big difference when comparing QB to other positions within the same tier. The top QBs tend not to be runners, so their value goes up significantly relative to the top RBs, or top WRs. A 30-TD QB is going to come up about 4 ppg, relative to RB/WRs unaffected by the change. And also come up 2 ppg relative to a 15-TD QB.

 

[Football Menace]

It's kind of like 4 point passing TD's vs. 6 point passing TD's. The elite fantasy QB's are still the elite tier in either format, so draft strategy doesn't really change much unless you're talking about a prolific running QB.

Draft strategy certainly changes with 4pts vs 6pts for passing TDs. QBs with high TD totals are more valuable with 6 and prolific running QBs more valuable with 4.

I've heard this point for years, but the math doesn't bear this out. 6pt vs 4pt PASSING TDS makes no difference in QB to QB comparisons, at least in the passing game. The only time 6pt vs 4pt passing TDs change anything is when you go from 4pt to 6pt, guys like Cam Newton get devalued because they no longer have the advantage of the 6pt rushing TDs. Do the math:((6×15)÷(6×50))=.300

((4×15)÷(4×50))=.300

Correct that 4pt vs 6pt passTDs only affects QB to QB comparison when comparing a running QB to a pocket QB. But it makes a big difference when comparing QB to other positions within the same tier. The top QBs tend not to be runners, so their value goes up significantly relative to the top RBs, or top WRs. A 30-TD QB is going to come up about 4 ppg, relative to RB/WRs unaffected by the change. And also come up 2 ppg relative to a 15-TD QB.

4pt vs 6pt TDs make no difference in QB to QB comparisons or QB to RB/WR/TE/PK/DT comparison. Period. The value doesn't change because ALL QBS are getting the same amount of points. So the points that you think youre gaining by getting the higher TD total QB @ +2pts is negated because ALL QBs are now +2pts for passing TDs. Thus not changing the overall value of any QB (except devaluing the rushing TD QBs). Peyton Manning is gonna throw his 40TDs and Andy Dalton is gonna throw his 22TDs no matter what points are assigned to a passing TD.

 

[Football Menace]

It's kind of like 4 point passing TD's vs. 6 point passing TD's. The elite fantasy QB's are still the elite tier in either format, so draft strategy doesn't really change much unless you're talking about a prolific running QB.

Draft strategy certainly changes with 4pts vs 6pts for passing TDs. QBs with high TD totals are more valuable with 6 and prolific running QBs more valuable with 4.

I've heard this point for years, but the math doesn't bear this out. 6pt vs 4pt PASSING TDS makes no difference in QB to QB comparisons, at least in the passing game. The only time 6pt vs 4pt passing TDs change anything is when you go from 4pt to 6pt, guys like Cam Newton get devalued because they no longer have the advantage of the 6pt rushing TDs. Do the math:((6×15)÷(6×50))=.300

((4×15)÷(4×50))=.300

Correct that 4pt vs 6pt passTDs only affects QB to QB comparison when comparing a running QB to a pocket QB. But it makes a big difference when comparing QB to other positions within the same tier. The top QBs tend not to be runners, so their value goes up significantly relative to the top RBs, or top WRs. A 30-TD QB is going to come up about 4 ppg, relative to RB/WRs unaffected by the change. And also come up 2 ppg relative to a 15-TD QB.

Another way to see that it doesn't really change anything is to plug both sets of numbers into the draft dominator. When I plugged 4pt TDs into my settings, Luck and Rogers both dropped one slot in the overall rankings virtually being valued the same as if it were 6pt TDs.

 

[Arodin]

4pt vs 6pt TDs make no difference in QB to QB comparisons or QB to RB/WR/TE/PK/DT comparison. Period. The value doesn't change because ALL QBS are getting the same amount of points. So the points that you think youre gaining by getting the higher TD total QB @ +2pts is negated because ALL QBs are now +2pts for passing TDs. Thus not changing the overall value of any QB (except devaluing the rushing TD QBs). Peyton Manning is gonna throw his 40TDs and Andy Dalton is gonna throw his 22TDs no matter what points are assigned to a passing TD.

This is fairly evidently wrong. In your example with your numbers, Manning will increase his scoring by 80 pts, and Dalton by only 44 pts. That's a 36 point (2.25 per game) difference caused directly by the scoring change.

 

[Football Menace]

4pt vs 6pt TDs make no difference in QB to QB comparisons or QB to RB/WR/TE/PK/DT comparison. Period. The value doesn't change because ALL QBS are getting the same amount of points. So the points that you think youre gaining by getting the higher TD total QB @ +2pts is negated because ALL QBs are now +2pts for passing TDs. Thus not changing the overall value of any QB (except devaluing the rushing TD QBs). Peyton Manning is gonna throw his 40TDs and Andy Dalton is gonna throw his 22TDs no matter what points are assigned to a passing TD.

This is fairly evidently wrong. In your example with your numbers, Manning will increase his scoring by 80 pts, and Dalton by only 44 pts. That's a 36 point (2.25 per game) difference caused directly by the scoring change.

Yes there's an increase in raw numbers, but those raw numbers aren't affecting the overall value of the QB position because both Manning and Dalton are receiving additional ppg. All I can tell you is to plug the numbers into vbd/draft dominator, and you'll see the values don't change

 

[rick6668]

4pt vs 6pt TDs make no difference in QB to QB comparisons or QB to RB/WR/TE/PK/DT comparison. Period. The value doesn't change because ALL QBS are getting the same amount of points. So the points that you think youre gaining by getting the higher TD total QB @ +2pts is negated because ALL QBs are now +2pts for passing TDs. Thus not changing the overall value of any QB (except devaluing the rushing TD QBs). Peyton Manning is gonna throw his 40TDs and Andy Dalton is gonna throw his 22TDs no matter what points are assigned to a passing TD.

This is fairly evidently wrong. In your example with your numbers, Manning will increase his scoring by 80 pts, and Dalton by only 44 pts. That's a 36 point (2.25 per game) difference caused directly by the scoring change.

Yes there's an increase in raw numbers, but those raw numbers aren't affecting the overall value of the QB position because both Manning and Dalton are receiving additional ppg. All I can tell you is to plug the numbers into vbd/draft dominator, and you'll see the values don't change

They definitely do change, to what degree depends on the scoring change.

For my scoring, changing the QB TD's from 4 to 6 moves Rodgers from #21 overall in ADP to #11 and Luck from #24 to #16.

Try changing passing TD's to 100 points and see what that does to the ADP. It puts QB's in all the top 10 spots.

 

[Arodin]

4pt vs 6pt TDs make no difference in QB to QB comparisons or QB to RB/WR/TE/PK/DT comparison. Period. The value doesn't change because ALL QBS are getting the same amount of points. So the points that you think youre gaining by getting the higher TD total QB @ +2pts is negated because ALL QBs are now +2pts for passing TDs. Thus not changing the overall value of any QB (except devaluing the rushing TD QBs). Peyton Manning is gonna throw his 40TDs and Andy Dalton is gonna throw his 22TDs no matter what points are assigned to a passing TD.

This is fairly evidently wrong. In your example with your numbers, Manning will increase his scoring by 80 pts, and Dalton by only 44 pts. That's a 36 point (2.25 per game) difference caused directly by the scoring change.

Yes there's an increase in raw numbers, but those raw numbers aren't affecting the overall value of the QB position because both Manning and Dalton are receiving additional ppg. All I can tell you is to plug the numbers into vbd/draft dominator, and you'll see the values don't change

If you don't see how scoring 80 points is fundamentally different from scoring 44 points, I can't really add anything here. As you say, "both Manning and Dalton are receiving additional ppg." But how can you ignore the somewhat relevant fact that they are both receiving different amounts of additional ppg?

 

[Football Menace]

4pt vs 6pt TDs make no difference in QB to QB comparisons or QB to RB/WR/TE/PK/DT comparison. Period. The value doesn't change because ALL QBS are getting the same amount of points. So the points that you think youre gaining by getting the higher TD total QB @ +2pts is negated because ALL QBs are now +2pts for passing TDs. Thus not changing the overall value of any QB (except devaluing the rushing TD QBs). Peyton Manning is gonna throw his 40TDs and Andy Dalton is gonna throw his 22TDs no matter what points are assigned to a passing TD.

This is fairly evidently wrong. In your example with your numbers, Manning will increase his scoring by 80 pts, and Dalton by only 44 pts. That's a 36 point (2.25 per game) difference caused directly by the scoring change.

Yes there's an increase in raw numbers, but those raw numbers aren't affecting the overall value of the QB position because both Manning and Dalton are receiving additional ppg. All I can tell you is to plug the numbers into vbd/draft dominator, and you'll see the values don't change

If you don't see how scoring 80 points is fundamentally different from scoring 44 points, I can't really add anything here. As you say, "both Manning and Dalton are receiving additional ppg." But how can you ignore the somewhat relevant fact that they are both receiving different amounts of additional ppg?

Let's try this again. Yes, I understand that Manning is going to score more points both on a yearly and ppg basis. But that's not what we're debating. We're debating whether adding those points change the OVERALL value of the QB position in comparison to ALL positions. When I plug 4pt TDs into my scoring both Luck and Rodgers drop 1 spot in the overall rankings because the "net +2.25ppg" that you keep mentioning isn't having much affect on their value. Add to that, when I plug in the original poster's point per completion to my scoring, both QBs value goes up. Luck goes up from #13 to #2 overall with a similar increase in value for Rodgers. But by doing that, I just increased their points by 300+. But changing between 4pt or 6pt TDs with ppc, there is no change in their spots in the overall rankings. To change the value of the QBs in comparison to other positions, you have to do something drastic that makes the QB scoring go to the extreme, and at that point ALL QBs will be valued at a higher rate.