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Post Here if You Have or Know of Someone Who Has Been Harmed by Covid Vax (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter LawFitz
- Start date
LawFitz
Footballguy
This is absolutely still TBD - especially with respect to certain sub-groups. You are potentially spreading dangerous misinformation. Shame on you.
moleculo
Footballguy
oh, absolutely, but it's not always about money. conspiracy theories, in particular, are very attractive to intelligent people....the kind of people who constantly seek patterns and try to understand relationships.
I don't think Dr Rose is a conspiracy theorist. From a cursory glance, she appears to be a skeptic, which is healthy and we need more of.
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moleculo
Footballguy
I disagree...a well reasoned researcher/scientist does not build this website
https://i-do-not-consent.netlify.app/
It's fine to raise questions and be skeptical. Science demands that. And there are very good pathways for confirming/challenging hypothesis
Building a website that looks like it's from the 80s with a lot of exclamation points is not one of them.
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moleculo
Footballguy
Dr Rose's (pre-reviewed) paper speaks about myocarditis having elevated risk after vaccination, and it would not surprise me if that is true. What doesn't seem to be discussed is myocarditis risk is also elevated by COVID so, it's kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing. Plus, COVID causes other bad things, so in aggregate vaccines are still good.
Still it's worth noting that the vaccines are not without risk, much like any other treatment available.
Still it's worth noting that the vaccines are not without risk, much like any other treatment available.
LawFitz
Footballguy
All of what? Two ####### broken links to articles she was noted in? You guys will reach for whatever you can. I say YOU guys, b/c you are doing it too, Moleculo, even if you are saying you aren't. You are doing it by implication.
And BTW, the links to her three papers on VAERS are on that same site and work just FINE.
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ETA: I take back what I wrote to you above. It was before you wrote you subsequent responses to Killface. You seem like a much more reasonable and rational poster than many here.
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moleculo
Footballguy
first quibble - Dr Rose notes that there have been a ton more recent VAERS entries vs the 30 year old trend. That is true. What is also true is that VAERS was made political around that same time.
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2011-01-01 2021-12-13&geo=US&q=vaers
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The problem from her is equating the two risks together. They shouldn't even be in the same sentence and any honest researcher knows that.
Her paper speaks to elevated risk due to inflammation post vaccine which of course is the case because covid is inflammatory in and of itself.
And that's basic science...if she was a reasoned researcher she would understand that fairly easily.
moleculo
Footballguy
next quibble - Dr Rose compares COVID-vax myocartitis entries in VAERS to non-COVID- vax myocartitis entries, only within VAERS, but not against overall population (unless I haven't gotten to that section yet). The comparison is in terms of raw numbers. That seems really disengenuous, given the trends.google data above.
moleculo
Footballguy
moleculo
Footballguy
Ok, I think I have gotten the jist of it. I would agree that there is potential for increased risk of myocartitis for males aged 12-15 (possibly younger). However, I believe the risk is overstated. Dr Rose heavily leans on the fact that there are a lot more entries to VAERS in 2021 vs previous, yet has not acknowledged that there may be reasons beyond purely medical - the trends.google mentioned above, but also the sheer number of people who have been vaccinated.
further, Dr Rose claims that children are better off treated with multi-drug therapy with antivirals, immunomodulators, and anthrombotics. I wonder if she has applied the same scrutiny to those treatments as she has to the vaccine?
There is some loaded language in the conclusion which betrays any sense of impartiality. When I see things like "These data are derived from a rushed, non-FDA-approved, ongoing investigational product rollout, and our conclusions are thus limited by the information at hand," I tend to tune out because this language is meant to persuade, not inform. The FDA status of the vaccine has nothing to do with the data presented.
further, Dr Rose claims that children are better off treated with multi-drug therapy with antivirals, immunomodulators, and anthrombotics. I wonder if she has applied the same scrutiny to those treatments as she has to the vaccine?
There is some loaded language in the conclusion which betrays any sense of impartiality. When I see things like "These data are derived from a rushed, non-FDA-approved, ongoing investigational product rollout, and our conclusions are thus limited by the information at hand," I tend to tune out because this language is meant to persuade, not inform. The FDA status of the vaccine has nothing to do with the data presented.
moleculo
Footballguy
now, if a possible elevated risk of myocartitis is enough to stop you from getting vaccinated, I think that's a personal decision and should be informed by your primary care physician. I would defer to the FBG doctors to comment.
also - here is a much better article on the topic that was published by a legitimate journal.
also - here is a much better article on the topic that was published by a legitimate journal.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Yikes. You are reading what you want to read, instead of what's written, just to attempt to discredit this person. The bolded very obviously refers to surveying all vaxxed individuals within the prospective study, not all vaxxed individuals period.
So many of you continue to display attributes that you've repeatedly accused me of in this thread and multiple others. Perhaps - no, not perhaps, definitely - you should all check your biases a whole lot more - especially with how much you continually accuse me of not doing so.
So many people here are pushing obtuse opinion pieces and then starting threads and drawing conclusions from them? Funny i don't see that happening at all
You also ignored his many critiques of everything scientifically wrong with her hypothesis (I wouldn't even call it that).
moleculo
Footballguy
That's not what she said. There is no study. Her data is 100% a data analysis of VAERS. Even if there was a study, surveying everyone is a terribly inefficient way to collect data. I mean, that's undergrad-level stuff.
LawFitz
Footballguy
jhib
Footballguy
Yeah, I mean I still think you're giving the raw numbers way too much weight, but I appreciate you referring to them the way that the VAERS administrators do. They are literally reports of events following vaccination.
How many are legit/true reports (by this I mean they even happened at all and aren't completely made up) and then how many of the legit reports even represent a plausible relationship (other than time) to the vaccine, and then how meaningful those numbers are when compared to background rates, etc, etc... those are all a different story. But they are still reports of adverse events following vaccination.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I'll give you an example here: my 8 year old son had some GI issues the day after his first shot. He #### his pants like 4x over the course of 24 hours. He was running to the bathroom a lot. It wasn't fun.
He also started eating some Activia drinkable yogurt at about the same time. During those 24 hours, I considered reporting his symptoms to VAERS. We also stopped him from eating the yogurt.
His GI issues passed and we never reported it to VAERS. If he had gone to urgent care, it very well might have been reported.
Did the vaccine cause the GI problems or was it the yogurt? Most likely the latter.
He got the second dose 2 weeks ago and didn't have any AEs from that one.
He also started eating some Activia drinkable yogurt at about the same time. During those 24 hours, I considered reporting his symptoms to VAERS. We also stopped him from eating the yogurt.
His GI issues passed and we never reported it to VAERS. If he had gone to urgent care, it very well might have been reported.
Did the vaccine cause the GI problems or was it the yogurt? Most likely the latter.
He got the second dose 2 weeks ago and didn't have any AEs from that one.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
quick-hands
Footballguy
Got the booster yesterday. Normal vaccine headache and body aches.
Something new is peripheral vision flashing lights. Google says changes in eye pressure. Which isn't necessarily good. Hope it's gone today, very annoying.
Something new is peripheral vision flashing lights. Google says changes in eye pressure. Which isn't necessarily good. Hope it's gone today, very annoying.
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