Power lines in CA (1 Viewer)

[boots11234]

Simple question:  why don’t they bury all power lines to avoid these fires started by them?

 

[KCitons]

Bury them across the earthquake fault lines?

In the fault lines. Boom. No need to dig.

 

[Eephus]

Holes and poles are cheaper to lay and maintain than entrenched infrastructure

 

[Cjw_55106]

Holes and poles are cheaper to lay and maintain than entrenched infrastructure

Cheaper than the billions lost in fires every year?

 

[Gally]

Cheaper than the billions lost in fires every year?

Its more than just having the lines above ground and on poles.  Every option has a trade off with benefits and risks.  There is no guaranteed solution (that is able to be funded).  Much of the risk is tied to older infrastructure that is difficult to maintain because of the area they are located.  In order to properly maintain it would also require longer outages to complete the proper maintenance (which people will also complain about).  There is no solution that will make everyone happy. 

 

[Scoresman]

Wasn't it the underground utilities at fault when PG&E blew up that neighborhood in San Bruno?  The problem isn't power lines.  The problem is PG&E.  They'd find someway to ruin people's lives with underground power.  

 

[NutterButter]

Considering the ridiculous cost of that high speed rail, I'd love to hear that estimate.     

 

[nirad3]

Wasn't it the underground utilities at fault when PG&E blew up that neighborhood in San Bruno?  The problem isn't power lines.  The problem is PG&E.  They'd find someway to ruin people's lives with underground power.  

My old boss was an expert witness in that whole fiasco.  I did some research to assist.

 

[Eephus]

Wasn't it the underground utilities at fault when PG&E blew up that neighborhood in San Bruno?  The problem isn't power lines.  The problem is PG&E.  They'd find someway to ruin people's lives with underground power.  

Even PG&E didn't run overhead gas mains

 

[Eephus]

Holes and poles are cheaper to lay and maintain than entrenched infrastructure

Cheaper than the billions lost in fires every year?

We're talking about infrastructure that has been in place for decades in many cases.  I'm critical of PG&E for neglecting maintenance of existing cables and transformers but it's hard to second guess them for building overhead lines in a time where that was standard industry practice for power utilities.

 

[NutterButter]

We're talking about infrastructure that has been in place for decades in many cases.  I'm critical of PG&E for neglecting maintenance of existing cables and transformers but it's hard to second guess them for building overhead lines in a time where that was standard industry practice for power utilities.

I don't think the OP means why they didn't do it initially. 

 

[Eephus]

I don't think the OP means why they didn't do it initially. 

Because laying underground power cables in rural areas wasn't typical industry practice at the time of construction and was significantly more expensive.

 

[boots11234]

I know noting about power lines but it seems to me that these annal fires are very expensive too. 

 

[huthut]

I remember seeing a cost for burying lines, and it was super expensive per mile. PG&E should have spent some money on maintenance instead of using it all for executive bonuses. 

 

[Eephus]

According to PG&E estimates, it costs approximately $3 million per mile to convert underground electric distribution lines from overhead. PG&E’s cost to build new overhead lines is approximately $150 per foot or $800,000 per mile.

 

[Cjw_55106]

So let’s call it what it is. They chose profit over people’s personal property and safety. 
 

eta: I’m not saying they’re obligated to do anything different, but it should be stated.

 

[CurlyNight]

So let’s call it what it is. They chose profit over people’s personal property and safety. 

Yes, they did. Newsom has called them out on this and is putting the screws to them.

 

[huthut]

So let’s call it what it is. They chose profit over people’s personal property and safety. 
 

This is unavoidable when it is a for profit company. 

 

[TripItUp]

Electricity prices would be unaffordable to the middle class once they passed down the costs of other alternatives.  That being said they are burying power lines in some areas.

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/09/10/ca-utility-replacing-1000s-of-miles-of-power-lines-to-reduce-wildfire-risk/

If there  was a straightforward solution I can assure you we wouldn’t stumble across it in the ffa.

That being said we are close to having homes with self sustaining energy...power lines will be a thing of the past in 50 years.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/g2825/7-ways-to-power-your-home-with-renewable-energy/

 

[Punxsutawney Phil]

They paid Elon Musk a billion dollars to dig tunnels for underground utilities.  So far the boring machine has been able to bore 1/4 mile of tunnels.  Compared to the high speed rail this project is a fraction of the price and much further along.

 

[Tom Servo]

Simple question:  why don’t they bury all power lines to avoid these fires started by them?

Utility guy here: The simple answer is that underground equipment is more costly than overhead.  There are sectionalizing points, some of which involve underground vaults.  To work them, you need confined space training and equipment. 

The state of Maryland requires all new facilities to be built underground.  Unfortunately, unless you put the conductor in conduit, the soil type can easily destroy the cable.  Even putting it in conduit, you're merely extending the life of the conductor.

And that's for starters.

 

[Tom Servo]

So let’s call it what it is. They chose profit over people’s personal property and safety. 
 

eta: I’m not saying they’re obligated to do anything different, but it should be stated.

At $800.000 vs. $3 million, I hardly doubt they were guilty of that slogan.  Anything that isn't maintained will fall apart, fall down, or fall over; I don't care where you put it.

My company in PA was tasked by the Public Utility Commission mandated we start upgrading our facilities ahead of getting to the stage PG&E is in.  They saw outages were trending in the wrong direction and gave us the ability to raise rates to cover the cost of the upgrades. We spent over $30 million in 2018 to do this; this year will be closer to $15 million and 2020 looks to be back around $25-30 million.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Yes, they did. Newsom has called them out on this and is putting the screws to them.

That's rich considering the effect that government mandated renewable energy and forestry management policies have had as the the main contributors to this debacle.

But Newsom is hardly the first politician to engage in demagoguery, obfuscation, and blame shifting. Californian politicians simply raise it to an art form.

#shotfired

 

[WDIK2]

That's rich considering the effect that government mandated renewable energy and forestry management policies have had as the the main contributors to this debacle.

I understand the forestry management part, but what does the mandated renewable energy policies have to do with it?  Asking because I don't live in CA and am curious.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I understand the forestry management part, but what does the mandated renewable energy policies have to do with it?  Asking because I don't live in CA and am curious.

I can't find the article that I read explaining it but roughly as California has pushed renewable energy it required the solar and wind farms further and further from the metropolitan areas. Which in itself isn't terrible but it also required many, many more miles of transmission lines. The accompanying safety measures fell victim to budgetary constraints. And here California is.

 

[culdeus]

Simple question:  why don’t they bury all power lines to avoid these fires started by them?

Cheaper to just pave over the forests.  

 

[Wrigley]

Um, trim the trees

 

[CurlyNight]

Um, trim the trees

There's more to it than that, like areas with high fuel content that hasn't burned in decades and faulty pge equipment. There have been fires where there are no trees. It's been very dry here.

 

[NutterButter]

There's more to it than that, like areas with high fuel content that hasn't burned in decades and faulty pge equipment. There have been fires where there are no trees. It's been very dry here.

But what's igniting the fires?  This thread is about the power lines and the fires they're causing.   It seems to be that downed tree branches are what's knocking these lines down.  Why there's a tree anywhere near these transmission lines is baffling.   

 

[CurlyNight]

But what's igniting the fires?  This thread is about the power lines and the fires they're causing.   It seems to be that downed tree branches are what's knocking these lines down.  Why there's a tree anywhere near these transmission lines is baffling.   

So far pge has taken responsibility for some faulty equipment sparking the fires. I haven't heard a case of a downed tree causing a fire yet like I did the past ones, but the investigation won't really start until this is over.

The winds have been sending embers, expanding the kincade fire. 

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

annal fires

Ouch

 

[sports_fan]

I know noting about power lines but it seems to me that these annal fires are very expensive too. 

Anal fires. Sounds like a great band name.

 

[CurlyNight]

I wouldn't be surprised to hear some of the 300 fires this month were from arson. Not long ago, some wacko flew from out of state, rented a car, started a fire, then went to some reunion. He was caught as he was trying to get away. 

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

A buddy of mine is literally a construction supervisor for PG&E.  My brother works for an entity that deals with PG&E all day long.  What Servo, Gally, and Eephus are saying is correct.

It’s a complicated situation.  It’s also a crappy situation.  

 

[CurlyNight]

The getty fire in LA where Schwarzenegger and Le Bron were evacuated from was from a downed branch on power lines. 

Bron sent a food truck to where the firefighters base is.

 

[boots11234]

The getty fire in LA where Schwarzenegger and Le Bron were evacuated from was from a downed branch on power lines. 

Bron sent a food truck to where the firefighters base is.

Wonder if it was a Chinese food truck?

 

[Eephus]

A buddy of mine is literally a construction supervisor for PG&E.  My brother works for an entity that deals with PG&E all day long.  What Servo, Gally, and Eephus are saying is correct.

It’s a complicated situation.  It’s also a crappy situation.  

The conditions dry weather and high winds make the situation here unique but the issues of aging, poorly maintained infrastructure are common across most of the country.

 

[CurlyNight]

Wonder if it was a Chinese food truck?

It's  LA. Mexican.

 

[boots11234]

It's  LA. Mexican.

No, that’s whose digging the fire breaks on his property right now. 

 

[CurlyNight]

No, that’s whose digging the fire breaks on his property right now. 

You don't know Bron.... it's Tuesday! 

 

[NutterButter]

Wonder if it was a Chinese food truck?

Its Tuesday brah

 

[dickey moe]

Um, trim the trees

It should be that easy, but because of ridiculously inflexible environmental policy (thanks CEQA!), it isn't.

 

[Wrigley]

Anal fires. Sounds like a great band name.

Johnny Cash cover band 

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Really well-done Frontline on the Camp Fire that burned down Paradise last year tonight. 

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Being from Southern California--it's a very complicated issue.  Basically speaking--the power and utility companies basically went years and years collecting billions of dollars and neglected investing back into their systems and infrastructures.    California utilities and companies constantly find ways to screw and money gouge its citizens. For example--for every gallon of gas we buy here--nearly 60 cents is tax.    When oil was $120+ a barrel we were paying $4+ per gallon of gas out here.  Oil is half of that--we are still paying $4+ per gallon.   You know why?  Anytime gas is supposed to get cheap annually--the california refineries magically have to undergo some maintenance that allegedly lowers the gas supply and keeps the prices up.   We basically pay more for everything out here--while the companies providing the utilities and fuel are allowed to under-invest and and over charge.  

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

No, that’s whose digging the fire breaks on his property right now. 

Take a play or two off

 

[CurlyNight]

There were maybe still are prisoners working up north. They evacuated a jail and sent them to work.

 

[Whitesea]

Simple question:  why don’t they bury all power lines to avoid these fires started by them?

They did not anticipate the day when there would be a fire.

 

[Eephus]

They did not anticipate the day when there would be a fire.

Wildfires have always been a risk in California.  Development has moved inhabitants closer to rural burn areas and hotter, drier and windier climatic conditions make it easier for fires to spread rapidly.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Being from Southern California--it's a very complicated issue.  Basically speaking--the power and utility companies basically went years and years collecting billions of dollars and neglected investing back into their systems and infrastructures.    California utilities and companies constantly find ways to screw and money gouge its citizens. For example--for every gallon of gas we buy here--nearly 60 cents is tax.    When oil was $120+ a barrel we were paying $4+ per gallon of gas out here.  Oil is half of that--we are still paying $4+ per gallon.   You know why?  Anytime gas is supposed to get cheap annually--the california refineries magically have to undergo some maintenance that allegedly lowers the gas supply and keeps the prices up.   We basically pay more for everything out here--while the companies providing the utilities and fuel are allowed to under-invest and and over charge.  

"competition" helped you guys out so much.