Property Title Question (1 Viewer)

[jon_mx]

A ex-neighbor passed away and we had a first right refusal option recorded on property. Auction company sells for $170k without informing us. Now people have painted and added new carpet and sold for $300k (sale pending). Now title company asking us to sign a release. I would have signed if this was her family selling initially, but signing for free for someone flipping a property for $100k profit? Seems like someone really screwed up. What is the play?

 

[Cjw_55106]

Im not a lawyer, but it seems you should be able to buy the property for $170K.

 

[jon_mx]

Im not a lawyer, but it seems you should be able to buy the property for $170K.

Not interested in buying since we moved. Really just wanted the land at the time. Would be happy with about $20k.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Im not a lawyer, but it seems you should be able to buy the property for $170K.

Not interested in buying since we moved. Really just wanted the land at the time. Would be happy with about $20k.

Id be surprised if you got paid off, unless they think you are interested in buying the property.

 

[jon_mx]

Im not a lawyer, but it seems you should be able to buy the property for $170K.

Not interested in buying since we moved. Really just wanted the land at the time. Would be happy with about $20k.

Id be surprised if you got paid off, unless they think you are interested in buying the property.

Why? They have an accepted offer. They either agree or pass up $100k payday.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Im not a lawyer, but it seems you should be able to buy the property for $170K.

Not interested in buying since we moved. Really just wanted the land at the time. Would be happy with about $20k.

Id be surprised if you got paid off, unless they think you are interested in buying the property.

Why? They have an accepted offer. They either agree or pass up $100k payday.

Again, I dont know anything about the laws, but right of first refusal means you get the first chance to buy. They sold for $170K. Why would you get anything other than a chance to buy at $170k?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Im not a lawyer, but it seems you should be able to buy the property for $170K.

Not interested in buying since we moved. Really just wanted the land at the time. Would be happy with about $20k.

Id be surprised if you got paid off, unless they think you are interested in buying the property.

Why? They have an accepted offer. They either agree or pass up $100k payday.

Again, I dont know anything about the laws, but right of first refusal means you get the first chance to buy. They sold for $170K. Why would you get anything other than a chance to buy at $170k?

Presumably, his option is at minimum a cloud on the title, and likely a cause of action. Releasing it has some value, so its just a question of how much.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Im not a lawyer, but it seems you should be able to buy the property for $170K.

Not interested in buying since we moved. Really just wanted the land at the time. Would be happy with about $20k.

Id be surprised if you got paid off, unless they think you are interested in buying the property.

Why? They have an accepted offer. They either agree or pass up $100k payday.

Again, I dont know anything about the laws, but right of first refusal means you get the first chance to buy. They sold for $170K. Why would you get anything other than a chance to buy at $170k?

Presumably, his option is at minimum a cloud on the title, and likely a cause of action. Releasing it has some value, so its just a question of how much.

Yeah, I understand that.

 

[jon_mx]

Im not a lawyer, but it seems you should be able to buy the property for $170K.

Not interested in buying since we moved. Really just wanted the land at the time. Would be happy with about $20k.

Id be surprised if you got paid off, unless they think you are interested in buying the property.

Why? They have an accepted offer. They either agree or pass up $100k payday.

Again, I dont know anything about the laws, but right of first refusal means you get the first chance to buy. They sold for $170K. Why would you get anything other than a chance to buy at $170k?

Because they can not close on this home until this issue is resolved. They are not going to want to agree to sell the property for $170k because they have more in it than that. It is in all parties best interest that this $300k sale closes.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Im not a lawyer, but it seems you should be able to buy the property for $170K.

Not interested in buying since we moved. Really just wanted the land at the time. Would be happy with about $20k.

Id be surprised if you got paid off, unless they think you are interested in buying the property.

Why? They have an accepted offer. They either agree or pass up $100k payday.

Again, I dont know anything about the laws, but right of first refusal means you get the first chance to buy. They sold for $170K. Why would you get anything other than a chance to buy at $170k?

Because they can not close on this home until this issue is resolved. They are not going to want to agree to sell the property for $170k because they have more in it than that. It is in all parties best interest that this $300k sale closes.

Yeah, thats why I said they have to believe you are interested in buying at $170K.

 

[Fennis]

Ask for $20K

 

[nirad3]

Not sure how things got this far already, but at this point I'd contact an attorney that deals with this kind of thing. Depending on where you're at I may know a few folks.

 

[jon_mx]

Not sure how things got this far already, but at this point I'd contact an attorney that deals with this kind of thing. Depending on where you're at I may know a few folks.

The property is in Bloomington in.

 

[jon_mx]

Im not a lawyer, but it seems you should be able to buy the property for $170K.

Not interested in buying since we moved. Really just wanted the land at the time. Would be happy with about $20k.

Id be surprised if you got paid off, unless they think you are interested in buying the property.

Why? They have an accepted offer. They either agree or pass up $100k payday.

Again, I dont know anything about the laws, but right of first refusal means you get the first chance to buy. They sold for $170K. Why would you get anything other than a chance to buy at $170k?

Because they can not close on this home until this issue is resolved. They are not going to want to agree to sell the property for $170k because they have more in it than that. It is in all parties best interest that this $300k sale closes.

Yeah, thats why I said they have to believe you are interested in buying at $170K.

I would find a way

 

[SWC]

there was probably some type of title insurance in play when they sold the property without giving you the option to buy it can you do anything with that and hopefully take some sweet cashola to the bank also hope you are feeling on the up and up

 

[jon_mx]

there was probably some type of title insurance in play when they sold the property without giving you the option to buy it can you do anything with that and hopefully take some sweet cashola to the bank also hope you are feeling on the up and up

The auction company should have provided an owner's title policy when it closed. If there were exceptions on that policy, the auction company should have advised potential bidders. I am not sure where the fault lies. That is not my problem to figure out, but the current owners. Title insurance rarely pays out.

 

[Thorn]

You gotta talk to a lawyer in your jurisdiction ASAP. Depending on how the right of first refusal is written or interpreted in your state, you may have to tender an offer, and it's very likely there's a time limit on it.

 

[jon_mx]

You gotta talk to a lawyer in your jurisdiction ASAP. Depending on how the right of first refusal is written or interpreted in your state, you may have to tender an offer, and it's very likely there's a time limit on it.

That is a good point. I would think since this is a second sale, the rules are a bit fuzzy.

 

[njherdfan]

You definitely shouldn't sign the release without getting paid for it. The title company breached the contract. Although you should double check what the contract said regarding your option to purchase it: did you have to exercise the option by a certain time? Also, talk to a lawyer in Indiana.

 

[Thorn]

You gotta talk to a lawyer in your jurisdiction ASAP. Depending on how the right of first refusal is written or interpreted in your state, you may have to tender an offer, and it's very likely there's a time limit on it.

That is a good point. I would think since this is a second sale, the rules are a bit fuzzy.

Right, I'm guessing that you are going to have an argument that they breached by not giving you notice of the impending sale, so you get extra time, but they are going to argue that you had constructive or actual notice despite their breach. You're going to need a lawyer. glll

 

[Godsbrother]

Im not a lawyer, but it seems you should be able to buy the property for $170K.

Not interested in buying since we moved. Really just wanted the land at the time. Would be happy with about $20k.

I could see you being pissed about not having the opportunity to buy it if you wanted it. Since you don't want to buy it I'm not sure why you would hold them up for $20k.

 

[jon_mx]

Im not a lawyer, but it seems you should be able to buy the property for $170K.

Not interested in buying since we moved. Really just wanted the land at the time. Would be happy with about $20k.

I could see you being pissed about not having the opportunity to buy it if you wanted it. Since you don't want to buy it I'm not sure why you would hold them up for $20k.

Morally that may be the right answer. Ideally it would be the title insurance which would pay. Having been screwed over by title insurance a couple times and having purchased over $100k worth of that crap, I would be ok with it.

 

[SWC]

yeah cripes you are probably right what do i know but hey if you have saw questions or something i am your huckelberry bromigo

 

[nirad3]

Not sure how things got this far already, but at this point I'd contact an attorney that deals with this kind of thing. Depending on where you're at I may know a few folks.

The property is in Bloomington in.

Not my neck 'o the woods and don't think I know anyone out that way.... but it does sound like you have some recourse here. If you hold a ROFO, you should have been notified a long time ago. Any good RE attorney should be able to handle this with ease and get you a nice chunk of change.

 

[jon_mx]

yeah cripes you are probably right what do i know but hey if you have saw questions or something i am your huckelberry bromigo

Did you recommend the mitre?

 

[jon_mx]

Just discovered the receptionist who emailed me about signing the release works for the same title company which handled the first closing. In her email she did not mention anything about the previous sale, a minor fact that they did not seem was important.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Im not a lawyer, but it seems you should be able to buy the property for $170K.

Not interested in buying since we moved. Really just wanted the land at the time. Would be happy with about $20k.

I could see you being pissed about not having the opportunity to buy it if you wanted it. Since you don't want to buy it I'm not sure why you would hold them up for $20k.

I kind of agree with this, but I also think that he had a legal right to something that was improperly bypassed. If he had been given the proper notice, who knows how things would have played out? He held a legal option to something that had a value. I don't know how he came by this right and what the value of it should be may be hard to quantify, but there is a value to it no matter what.

 

[nirad3]

Im not a lawyer, but it seems you should be able to buy the property for $170K.

Not interested in buying since we moved. Really just wanted the land at the time. Would be happy with about $20k.

I could see you being pissed about not having the opportunity to buy it if you wanted it. Since you don't want to buy it I'm not sure why you would hold them up for $20k.

I kind of agree with this, but I also think that he had a legal right to something that was improperly bypassed. If he had been given the proper notice, who knows how things would have played out? He held a legal option to something that had a value. I don't know how he came by this right and what the value of it should be may be hard to quantify, but there is a value to it no matter what.

Correct. Now, the party that's trying to buy at this point may call jon's bluff and say "go and and make an offer, then", but in all likelihood will just offer some cash to settle the ROFO claim to title. They, for all intents and purposes, made the huge mistake of ignoring (or not knowing about) this title exception.

 

[ghostguy123]

Ask for $20K

Makes a lot more sense to buy for 170 and sell for 300....................................................

or at least make them think you certainly want to.

You WILL get paid off. Spend a full day making phone calls

 

[ghostguy123]

And spend that day on the phone with everyone BUT a lawyer. Don't feed those trolls unless you actually have to.

If nobody offers you anything good, lawyer up, and make sure all those people you talk to are aware you are about to do so.

 

[jon_mx]

I just emailed the receptionist back saying that I discovered that a sale of the property back in December may have breeched our contract and I will have to consult an attorney on how to proceed.

 

[jon_mx]

Ask for $20K

Makes a lot more sense to buy for 170 and sell for 300....................................................

or at least make them think you certainly want to.

You WILL get paid off. Spend a full day making phone calls

LOL, that is the shark move, but impossible to pull off. The realtors and title company would do everything possible to sabatoge the deal. And there is no way the current owner (who is a builder/house flipper) is going to cooperate either. I don't have the names of the buyers.

 

[Thorn]

And spend that day on the phone with everyone BUT a lawyer. Don't feed those trolls unless you actually have to.

If nobody offers you anything good, lawyer up, and make sure all those people you talk to are aware you are about to do so.

always solid advice

 

[nirad3]

And spend that day on the phone with everyone BUT a lawyer. Don't feed those trolls unless you actually have to.

If nobody offers you anything good, lawyer up, and make sure all those people you talk to are aware you are about to do so.

always solid advice

Right - it may come down to them knowing you're seeking legal advice to get yourself an offer to settle.

Now, as much as I detest the bloodsuckers, it may be in your best interest to hire someone for an hour or two worth of consultation to make sure your rights are fully vetted (and that you're getting a proper amount of coin).

 

[Uruk-Hai]

 

[jon_mx]

And spend that day on the phone with everyone BUT a lawyer. Don't feed those trolls unless you actually have to.

If nobody offers you anything good, lawyer up, and make sure all those people you talk to are aware you are about to do so.

always solid advice

Right - it may come down to them knowing you're seeking legal advice to get yourself an offer to settle.

Now, as much as I detest the bloodsuckers, it may be in your best interest to hire someone for an hour or two worth of consultation to make sure your rights are fully vetted (and that you're getting a proper amount of coin).

That is why I emailed them back informing them I was going to consult an attorney. I doubt they offer up much without an attorney involved. Considering the title company (a lawyer) is both a representative of the seller and also a potentially liable party, it will be interesting on how they play it.

 

[jon_mx]

Im not a lawyer, but it seems you should be able to buy the property for $170K.

Not interested in buying since we moved. Really just wanted the land at the time. Would be happy with about $20k.

I could see you being pissed about not having the opportunity to buy it if you wanted it. Since you don't want to buy it I'm not sure why you would hold them up for $20k.

I kind of agree with this, but I also think that he had a legal right to something that was improperly bypassed. If he had been given the proper notice, who knows how things would have played out? He held a legal option to something that had a value. I don't know how he came by this right and what the value of it should be may be hard to quantify, but there is a value to it no matter what.

We brought some land from them that was behind both of houses and this was part of that deal.

 

[D-Day]

To obtain the ROFO, you paid something. Perhaps when you bought your properties, you could have purchased it for a lower price. Try and figure that number with interest and ask for that... should be about $20k.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

.

 

[whoknew]

Your initial offer should be $130k. Or tell them you are exercising your right to buy for $170k and then sell it to the people who want it for $300.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Im not a lawyer, but it seems you should be able to buy the property for $170K.

Not interested in buying since we moved. Really just wanted the land at the time. Would be happy with about $20k.

I could see you being pissed about not having the opportunity to buy it if you wanted it. Since you don't want to buy it I'm not sure why you would hold them up for $20k.

I kind of agree with this, but I also think that he had a legal right to something that was improperly bypassed. If he had been given the proper notice, who knows how things would have played out? He held a legal option to something that had a value. I don't know how he came by this right and what the value of it should be may be hard to quantify, but there is a value to it no matter what.

We brought some land from them that was behind both of houses and this was part of that deal.

Could you determine what amount the purchase price the ROFR represented? At least in your mind? Also, is there any chance that you would have at least entertained the possibility of purchasing the property or done any other type of business deal regarding the lien prior to this sale in December?

 

[Long Ball Larry]

And spend that day on the phone with everyone BUT a lawyer. Don't feed those trolls unless you actually have to.

If nobody offers you anything good, lawyer up, and make sure all those people you talk to are aware you are about to do so.

always solid advice

Talking to a lawyer would also make him look guilty.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Who does the title company that wants you to sign represent? The new buyers?

 

[Drifter]

Unless you would have exercised your right to purchase at 170k just be a decent human being and walk away.

 

[mr roboto]

Unless you would have exercised your right to purchase at 170k just be a decent human being and walk away.

Well knowing that with some paint and carpet it's worth 300k he would have been an idiot NOT to exercise the right.

 

[ghostguy123]

Unless you would have exercised your right to purchase at 170k just be a decent human being and walk away.

He isnt a marshmallow who rolls over apparently. Everyone wins even if he gets 20k

 

[jon_mx]

Who does the title company that wants you to sign represent? The new buyers?

They did the title work on the first sale and apparently are doing it on this sale too. So I assume they have a working relationship with the house flipper. I think this title company is possibly the one who was at error in not discovering the contract until now.

 

[Van Dyman]

Unless you would have exercised your right to purchase at 170k just be a decent human being and walk away.

Well knowing that with some paint and carpet it's worth 300k he would have been an idiot NOT to exercise the right.

130k is arbitrary here. Maybe OP would have fixed it up nicer and sold it for 400k.

Regardless, it does appear that they did something wrong (breach of contract?) and probably deprived him of a business opportunity. Lawyer up.

 

[Thorn]

Unless you would have exercised your right to purchase at 170k just be a decent human being and walk away.

He isnt a marshmallow who rolls over apparently. Everyone wins even if he gets 20k

Especially the person who writes the check for 20k!

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Who does the title company that wants you to sign represent? The new buyers?

They did the title work on the first sale and apparently are doing it on this sale too. So I assume they have a working relationship with the house flipper. I think this title company is possibly the one who was at error in not discovering the contract until now.

If true, while I think it could be a slight **** move to try to get money out of this deal if you really would have had zero intention of purchasing the property or in any way profiting from ROFR originally, the title company is a ridiculous **** for ####### this up in the first place and then wanting you to fix their mistake,