Q&A About the car business or buying a car (1 Viewer)

[godgers12]

Great thread, thanks for pulling back the curtain on this. timing is good too....I just had my truck totaled and so we are gonna start looking for a new SUV for the family and I'm taking my wife's current SUV. She wants something with a 3rd row, but not a mini-van. We were going to start looking at the Dodge Durango, or GMC Arcadia.Any thoughts on the Durango? When did they go through the biggest model change, we may not buy new, but don't want to be too far behind the latest model.I want the 4-door Jeep, but so far no luck on that So, now that you're out, what are you going? You should be a new car buyer consultant?thanks again

Check out the new Explorer Sport. 365hp, much improved handling, 3rd row seating. Got mine on Monday and love it. PIC

This imo is obv the biggest competition for the Durango in the price range, but when comparing apples to apples the Explorer is quite a bit more. I REALLY like the body style etc. But have heard horror stories about the mytouch system. Honestly though I don't see going wrong either way and have nothing bad to say about the explorer, the refresh they did on it is nice.

Thanks guys, we are just starting out, so this is great feedback.

Take a day and drive em all that strike your interest but don't buy. Make sure to sleep on it and take some time. Also be sure to compare Apples to Apples, meaning that all vehicles are equipped the same, so you know the value your getting in them.

 

[jamny]

Great thread, thanks for pulling back the curtain on this. timing is good too....I just had my truck totaled and so we are gonna start looking for a new SUV for the family and I'm taking my wife's current SUV. She wants something with a 3rd row, but not a mini-van. We were going to start looking at the Dodge Durango, or GMC Arcadia.Any thoughts on the Durango? When did they go through the biggest model change, we may not buy new, but don't want to be too far behind the latest model.I want the 4-door Jeep, but so far no luck on that So, now that you're out, what are you going? You should be a new car buyer consultant?thanks again

Check out the new Explorer Sport. 365hp, much improved handling, 3rd row seating. Got mine on Monday and love it. PIC

This imo is obv the biggest competition for the Durango in the price range, but when comparing apples to apples the Explorer is quite a bit more. I REALLY like the body style etc. But have heard horror stories about the mytouch system. Honestly though I don't see going wrong either way and have nothing bad to say about the explorer, the refresh they did on it is nice.

Thanks guys, we are just starting out, so this is great feedback.

If you have any questions on the Sport, feel free to PM me.

 

[godgers12]

Great thread, thanks for pulling back the curtain on this. timing is good too....I just had my truck totaled and so we are gonna start looking for a new SUV for the family and I'm taking my wife's current SUV. She wants something with a 3rd row, but not a mini-van. We were going to start looking at the Dodge Durango, or GMC Arcadia.Any thoughts on the Durango? When did they go through the biggest model change, we may not buy new, but don't want to be too far behind the latest model.I want the 4-door Jeep, but so far no luck on that So, now that you're out, what are you going? You should be a new car buyer consultant?thanks again

Check out the new Explorer Sport. 365hp, much improved handling, 3rd row seating. Got mine on Monday and love it. PIC

This imo is obv the biggest competition for the Durango in the price range, but when comparing apples to apples the Explorer is quite a bit more. I REALLY like the body style etc. But have heard horror stories about the mytouch system. Honestly though I don't see going wrong either way and have nothing bad to say about the explorer, the refresh they did on it is nice.

Apparently the 2013 has addressed a lot of the bugs in previous MyTouch versions. So far, so good for me but it was definitely a concern when I was looking into it.

Thats good, I mean like I said I def. wasn't one of those salesman that bashed other product unless it was justified, My main goal was to make sure the person found the right car for what they want and for their budget, once you have that done and if it was one of my cars, everything from there seemed to work itself out.

 

[Slapdash]

You're doing the lord's work in here, codger.

haha wouldn't say that but I will say that I feel a lot better knowing the right way to do this, but it is cringe worthy to think about how much i got ripped on the first new car i bought, and how little i knew thinking I knew a lot.

Really appreciate what you are doing in here, I hate buying a car either used or new. I wish this forum had some sort of karma feature like reddit so you could get all the fake internet points you deserve.

 

[godgers12]

You're doing the lord's work in here, codger.

haha wouldn't say that but I will say that I feel a lot better knowing the right way to do this, but it is cringe worthy to think about how much i got ripped on the first new car i bought, and how little i knew thinking I knew a lot.

Really appreciate what you are doing in here, I hate buying a car either used or new. I wish this forum had some sort of karma feature like reddit so you could get all the fake internet points you deserve.

haha it is much appreciated, it really is amazing how that business can still be exactly how it was twenty years ago for the most part. The GMs of these places are old school car guys that gold all day and do nto even know anything about the product they sell. My GM would regularly ask me what engines where in certain vehicles lol.

 

[nittanylion]

Great thread, thanks for pulling back the curtain on this. timing is good too....I just had my truck totaled and so we are gonna start looking for a new SUV for the family and I'm taking my wife's current SUV. She wants something with a 3rd row, but not a mini-van. We were going to start looking at the Dodge Durango, or GMC Arcadia.Any thoughts on the Durango? When did they go through the biggest model change, we may not buy new, but don't want to be too far behind the latest model.I want the 4-door Jeep, but so far no luck on that So, now that you're out, what are you going? You should be a new car buyer consultant?thanks again

While you're looking at Durangos and Acadias, don't leave the Buick Enclave off your list. I drove almost every American-made SUV class vehicle when I bought my last new one at the end of November 2011, and the Enclave outclassed everything but the Cadillac. Very quiet and smooth ride, and from a 'fit-and-finish' standpoint, very well put together. I love mine, even though it eats gas, but in that class, it's relative. I've always bought new current year cars between late November and late December of that year. I have several Auto Industry folks in the family, and was advised pretty much all of the tips included in this thread, and then some, and got a tremendous deal on a loaded CXL-1, so loaded you wouldn't be able to tell it wasn't a CXL-2 unless you ran the VIN. Now is a fantastic time to buy a 2012 Enclave if you can find one, because the 2013 had some very noticeable aesthetic changes. I always though the original design was sharp, but the 2013 looks even better now, IMO, but it's basically the same solid vehicle. If any '12's made it through the end of the year, dealers ought to be really willing to get them off the lot, if you know how to play the game.Good Luck!

 

[Road Warriors]

Also, when i was discussing sale price I always discussed the out the door price.Mine happened to be 19kI told him you can add whatever you want to my sales order, but it comes off the price of the vehicle as 19k is all I am signing for.When I was 20 and bought a car, i felt i probably got raped by financing after having agreed to a price with the sales rep...but at that point i am tired, the rep isn't available and the finance guys tells me these items are standard and can't be removed etc...So i assume I paid for a bunch of stuff I didn't need.This time, it was very easy and all the way through financing no one even asked to add anything or that so so was needed.

yea it is really bad for people that either don't know what they are doing or do not read the fine print on things. They will always try crap like that. Also fwiw if anyone has bought a car and has a extended contract or GAP they dont feel they need, you can ALWAYS cancel it and they will cut a pro rated check for you.

Wish I had seen this thread a few months back. I did most of the price suggestions, and got what I think was a very good price, but then the financing, extended warrantees, and all the other financial add-ons caught me by surprise. I walked out with a new car price of $1000 under invoice + rebates, but somehow with a note of $5k more than the car + TTL. One suggestion is to not go to the dealership too late in the day. By the time I had driven the specific car, worked through the pricing, it was getting late. After a long day at the office, I wanted to get out of there with the car, so I was less cautious as we went through the financing part. However, I can also say that you can do exactly what was mentioned here... you can cancel all that extra crap. The next morning, I looked back at what I had "additionally purchased" more closely, determined I had been bent over, and went back to the dealership to get it all rolled back. They weren't too happy, and tried to change my mind with "what changed from last night when you wanted this protection" type questions, but in the end I got all the extras removed. And I found that for Nissan, you can buy an extended warranty from any dealer, and I found one for less than 1/3 the cost of the one my dealer pushed.As the OP has pointed out, the ePricing has changed the car buying game. Most dealers expect buyers to have a pretty good idea of front-end pricing, and are using the VIN etch / undercoating and inflated warranty costs to make up the difference. Thanks for the informative thread, OP.

 

[godgers12]

Also, when i was discussing sale price I always discussed the out the door price.Mine happened to be 19kI told him you can add whatever you want to my sales order, but it comes off the price of the vehicle as 19k is all I am signing for.When I was 20 and bought a car, i felt i probably got raped by financing after having agreed to a price with the sales rep...but at that point i am tired, the rep isn't available and the finance guys tells me these items are standard and can't be removed etc...So i assume I paid for a bunch of stuff I didn't need.This time, it was very easy and all the way through financing no one even asked to add anything or that so so was needed.

yea it is really bad for people that either don't know what they are doing or do not read the fine print on things. They will always try crap like that. Also fwiw if anyone has bought a car and has a extended contract or GAP they dont feel they need, you can ALWAYS cancel it and they will cut a pro rated check for you.

Wish I had seen this thread a few months back. I did most of the price suggestions, and got what I think was a very good price, but then the financing, extended warrantees, and all the other financial add-ons caught me by surprise. I walked out with a new car price of $1000 under invoice + rebates, but somehow with a note of $5k more than the car + TTL. One suggestion is to not go to the dealership too late in the day. By the time I had driven the specific car, worked through the pricing, it was getting late. After a long day at the office, I wanted to get out of there with the car, so I was less cautious as we went through the financing part. However, I can also say that you can do exactly what was mentioned here... you can cancel all that extra crap. The next morning, I looked back at what I had "additionally purchased" more closely, determined I had been bent over, and went back to the dealership to get it all rolled back. They weren't too happy, and tried to change my mind with "what changed from last night when you wanted this protection" type questions, but in the end I got all the extras removed. And I found that for Nissan, you can buy an extended warranty from any dealer, and I found one for less than 1/3 the cost of the one my dealer pushed.As the OP has pointed out, the ePricing has changed the car buying game. Most dealers expect buyers to have a pretty good idea of front-end pricing, and are using the VIN etch / undercoating and inflated warranty costs to make up the difference. Thanks for the informative thread, OP.

 

[thecatch]

Good thread. I have worked at a rental car place before, I wouldn't buy one.

Same here.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

yeah, this is a good thread --- I like seeing how the sausage is made.except in sausage factories, of course.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

to get back to the trade ins -- the dealerships motivations on trade ins is pretty straightforward.how does the trade in price affect the particular salesperson -- what's their motivation?

 

[godgers12]

to get back to the trade ins -- the dealerships motivations on trade ins is pretty straightforward.how does the trade in price affect the particular salesperson -- what's their motivation?

Salesman makes a % of whatever the gross is on the front end usually, some dealerships pay on both the front and back end.front end=the new car itself whatever is made there, and also the trade in, so whatever the used car sales manager appraises your car for is called ACV (actual cash value), then anything they can get you to accept under that ACV is considered front end gross.back end=finance, so any warranty, tire care, EVTS, etc.I made 25% of total gross was my commission on the front and 10% of the back was my pay scaleSo a salesman is motivated to hold as much as possible on your trade because that makes them money, basically every 1000.00 they can get from you is 250.00 in their pocket, not including any unit bonuses.

 

[Marvelous]

I wanted to add a couple of thoughts. I am a consumer and don't have any inside information.

1. The last two cars I purchased (2002 Honda Accord and 2008 Honda Pilot), I bought in August at the end of the model year. In addition, they were redesigning the cars in the new model year. With so many people waiting for the redesign models, the older model was especially cheap. Internet quotes make buying a car so much easier.

2. The website, carbuyingtips.com, is an awesome resource. It covers many of the tips that have been covered in this thread.

3. I frequently get my car serviced at the dealer. The provide coupons, which make them not that much more expensive than the cheap chains. Recently, Honda of Fairfax was providing a free state inspection. They failed my car and told me I needed to replace my front lower ball joints for around $600. I shopped around and then went to another Honda dealer. This dealer checked the joints and said they were fine. They also provided a free state inspection and passed it.

The point of this story: servicing departments can try to rip you off too. I have generally had good experience with Honda and thought with the volume they do, they don't need to try to sell unneeded repairs. But something is amiss at Fairfax Honda.

 

[glvsav37]

Can you explain the 4 square thing. I think that's what thy call it. It's the system some guys use when writing down the numbers, using each corner of a page.

 

[godgers12]

I wanted to add a couple of thoughts. I am a consumer and don't have any inside information.1. The last two cars I purchased (2002 Honda Accord and 2008 Honda Pilot), I bought in August at the end of the model year. In addition, they were redesigning the cars in the new model year. With so many people waiting for the redesign models, the older model was especially cheap. Internet quotes make buying a car so much easier.2. The website, carbuyingtips.com, is an awesome resource. It covers many of the tips that have been covered in this thread.3. I frequently get my car serviced at the dealer. The provide coupons, which make them not that much more expensive than the cheap chains. Recently, Honda of Fairfax was providing a free state inspection. They failed my car and told me I needed to replace my front lower ball joints for around $600. I shopped around and then went to another Honda dealer. This dealer checked the joints and said they were fine. They also provided a free state inspection and passed it.The point of this story: servicing departments can try to rip you off too. I have generally had good experience with Honda and thought with the volume they do, they don't need to try to sell unneeded repairs. But something is amiss at Fairfax Honda.

Service depts are worse than the sales dept for the fact that they get multiple chances at sticking it to you where as you only buy the car once.Buying the model year from the year before when the new one comes out does work (esp when a refresh is done on that car) but it is not a instant thing, yo have to wait it out a bit and let those last year models get some time on the lot before you see the real real good discounts.

 

[godgers12]

Can you explain the 4 square thing. I think that's what thy call it. It's the system some guys use when writing down the numbers, using each corner of a page.

Our dealership stopped using a "four square" a long time ago, I did not use it much. But what it basically does to make it simple is it is a way to present a buyer numbers and get them to focus on what the dealership wants them to focus on.Every salesman goal is to get you as a buyer to get off the bottom line of the deal and worry about your monthly payment. If they can get someone that is a monthly payment buyer it is going to be a payday for everyone. They use tricks like on the first four square will be like a 36 or 48 month contract, 2k over msrp for dealer adds, and holding 2k+ on your trade. your payment could be for example 700.00 here and your like wow no way i need to be at 450.00. Well they could honestly get you there buy adding in a little down payment, extending it out to 72+ months, and never ever even change the bottom line of the deal. Also they will always use a ridiculous high rate on the first numbers then if they know you have decent credit all they have to do is lower that rate and it makes the payment drop a ton, again never affecting the gross for the dealership itself.

 

[godgers12]

There were so many times customers would sign and agree and the deal was such a huge deal the bank wouldnt even fund it, so they would have to "cut" the deal and when the customer gets in the back they act like finance went to war for them and got them a cheaper price, when in all actuality the bank just told them enough is enough.

 

[pizzatyme]

There were so many times customers would sign and agree and the deal was such a huge deal the bank wouldnt even fund it, so they would have to "cut" the deal and when the customer gets in the back they act like finance went to war for them and got them a cheaper price, when in all actuality the bank just told them enough is enough.

I did that once in my career many years ago. I was selling for Honda and this guy comes in and pays sticker for a base Civic. I did my part but then the "negotiations" had his monthly payment well over the value of the car. The bank said no so the dealership added everything in the garage to balloon the value of the car. This guy rolls out with a base car with trunk storage net, tinted windows, spoiler, curb feelers, etc. it was embarrassing. I quit shortly after that.

 

[godgers12]

There were so many times customers would sign and agree and the deal was such a huge deal the bank wouldnt even fund it, so they would have to "cut" the deal and when the customer gets in the back they act like finance went to war for them and got them a cheaper price, when in all actuality the bank just told them enough is enough.

I did that once in my career many years ago. I was selling for Honda and this guy comes in and pays sticker for a base Civic. I did my part but then the "negotiations" had his monthly payment well over the value of the car. The bank said no so the dealership added everything in the garage to balloon the value of the car. This guy rolls out with a base car with trunk storage net, tinted windows, spoiler, curb feelers, etc. it was embarrassing. I quit shortly after that.

Some of the crazier "adds" I have seen people just pay for with no thought:every day people paid our 1300.00 adds for tint, etching, wheel locks, was not rarewe would take a base ram 2500 or 3500 put some XD tires and big rims, and some 600.00 lift on it and charge 14k, was ridiculouswe had this mopar 11' charger special edition they would add a 5k markup since it was special edition, yea well when they ordered for the dealership they sent us 9 of them, so they would leave 8 out back, sell one for 5k over and replace it with another one the next day.people constantly paid over 3k for a 1100.00 extended warrantysomeone would buy a wrangler and have us add a lift and wheels, our sales manager would keep the old wheels and sell them on the side theres so much it is just stupid

 

[Nugget]

Good thread - I'll try to contribute where I can. I've worked in the car business for 10+ years first on the dealer side and then for Ford. I've touched every aspect of the business. Couple comments based on the previous questions in the thread.- New Cars - Margin is probably 6-12% between sticker and invoice, based on price. I've seen 14K base B-cars with a difference of less than $300 to $50K vehicles with a markup of around $6K. Under the line money includes holdback (traditionally around 3% of invoice). This is money given back to the dealer to offset interest charges. Most dealers will use a line of credit (floorplan) on their new vehicle inventory. The holdback should cover 3-4 months of interest payments. Luxury manufacturers are moving away from holdback over the past couple of years, and are moving to other forms of dealerhsip compensation. Other charges included in the MSRP are destination charges (shown) and advertising fees (not shown). Both are real charges to the dealership. The ad fees pay for Tier 2 advertising (Tier 1 National, Tier 2 Reional, Tier 3 Dealer). When you see the ad that was brought ot you by "Your Valley Toyota Dealers" - this is an example of Tier 2 ads. They tend to focus on offers vs branding at the National level.Best time to buy a car is at the end of the month, best week is between Christmas and New Year's. Extra money will be dedicated to Memorial Day, Labor Day, and End of Year for rebates. "Truck Months", 4th of July, and Presidents Day are also times to bump rebates.Model years are becoming more convuluted. New models will hit between January and November, there is no longer a clear cut line. With many plants and product cycles, the timing is spaced out based on capacity, parts constraint, and marketing budgets.Doc fees vary by dealer and region and are justified by claiming they pay for title work and other back office operations. They are a common practice but I've seen fees range from $80-$800.Used Cars - You will get more money by selling it on your own, but it may not be worth the hassle. Dealerships are set up with a much larger selection, financing options, service contracts, inspections, and a physical location. Selling your car yourself means you need to market the car, sell it "as-is", go to the bank with the purchaser, and hope the guy doesn't come back to your house if something breaks on the vehicle.Older or high mileage trades - most good new car franchised dealers are not interested in vehicles over 80-120K miles or over 7-8 years old. They are harder to finance, warranty, and sell extended service contracts on. Why risk your reputation selling a 10 year old car with 150K miles? These vehicles will be wholesaled or taken to auction and land at a used car lot or "buy here, pay here" type facility. Other examples are trading in a Porsche at a Dodge store - they don't have the market for a Porsche and will call a high line store to get a "buy bid". Reconditioning - The average 50K mile car needs 4 new tires, new filters (oil, air, fuel), front brakes, a thorough detail, and possibly more. An $8500 trade will get $1100-$1700 worth of work, and then be marked up around $3000. The markup covers the people, building, marketing, and warranty on the vehicle.Trade Expectations - Go look at KBB, look at rough trade. This is a starting point. If it is a hot car, you may get more. If gas prices are spiking and you are in a Tahoe, expect less. By nature, these sites are trailing indicators. The dealer is at auction at least 1x/week. They do have a better idea of market value.Negotiations - If trading, always work a difference figure. I don't care what the pricing is on either car, I just want to what the difference between the 2 is. 20 for yours, 12 for mine is the same as 16 for yours, 8 for mine. Your payoff on your car has no bearing on what your car is worth. If you owe 15K, it doesn't mean your car is worth $15K. If you had paid cash, would your car be worth zero? Dealers will ask about the financing of your car to find out how to structure the deal. If you financed for 60 months last time, bought a warranty, had a $450 payment, you'll probably be OK with that again. And you would likely pay $30-50 more to go from a 4 year old car with 60K to a new car with no miles.More later.

 

[glvsav37]

thanks for all the great advice on here.we just bought, 2012 Honda Pilot Touring, used, with 18k miles on it. Its pretty well stacked. the info in here at least helped me sound more educated then I really am, so I hope that bought me some dealer 'cred over the weekend, we systematically test drove each car we liked, that knocked off most of the models. We then narrowed it to 2 types, and then internet researched the snot of them. Found 5 we really liked, and then played one against each other at the dealers. Left a few dealers if they wouldn't budge and eventually it was between 2, we dealt with the guy at 1 we liked and got up to leave telling him we were going back to the other dealership. Not saying I got a great deal, but at least I feel we were on fair terms.I can't thank you enough for the insight!!!

 

[godgers12]

thanks for all the great advice on here.we just bought, 2012 Honda Pilot Touring, used, with 18k miles on it. Its pretty well stacked. the info in here at least helped me sound more educated then I really am, so I hope that bought me some dealer 'cred over the weekend, we systematically test drove each car we liked, that knocked off most of the models. We then narrowed it to 2 types, and then internet researched the snot of them. Found 5 we really liked, and then played one against each other at the dealers. Left a few dealers if they wouldn't budge and eventually it was between 2, we dealt with the guy at 1 we liked and got up to leave telling him we were going back to the other dealership. Not saying I got a great deal, but at least I feel we were on fair terms.I can't thank you enough for the insight!!!

 

[Judge Smails]

If I had to sell cars for a living I might off myself. Seriously.

 

[godgers12]

If I had to sell cars for a living I might off myself. Seriously.

cool....I worker at a job before making 4-5x the money and wouldn't go back. I actually liked the aspect of getting to talk to people and what not. I just couldn't handle everything else as far as the business and bosses, and what I had to do to be a top performer in that business (which I strive to do no matter what job it is)That being said, I just wanted to try something new and am very glad I went through the experience, but never again lol.

 

[wittyusername]

This is a fantastic thread godgers! Tell me about leasing. I have read a lot of the pros & cons and for a variety of personal reasons am leaning toward leasing. Would you talk me off the ledge - or is it OK under certain circumstances? I am looking at the new 2013 Chrysler 300 - loaded. I understand that I should first negotiate the price to set the Capitalization cost. Only then tell the salesman that I will be leasing. Does this piss you off? Can one negotiate the money factor? Residual value? Educate me please!

 

[godgers12]

This is a fantastic thread godgers! Tell me about leasing. I have read a lot of the pros & cons and for a variety of personal reasons am leaning toward leasing. Would you talk me off the ledge - or is it OK under certain circumstances? I am looking at the new 2013 Chrysler 300 - loaded. I understand that I should first negotiate the price to set the Capitalization cost. Only then tell the salesman that I will be leasing. Does this piss you off? Can one negotiate the money factor? Residual value? Educate me please!

There is nothing wrong with getting your e price and negotiating the lease after you have that, whether you lease or buy the salesman makes the same amount of money. Some places may have extra "spiffs" for getting a lease done but otherwise it makes no difference. You can always negotiate the money value, the residual value is something that cannot be changed, it is what it is.

I would recommend a lease to anyone that wants a new car every three years and don't mind dropping 2-3k when they pick it up to keep their payment very reasonable. If I didn't find my truck at teh time I did @ such a ridiculous rate I probably would have leased whatever I bought because there is no way I drive something longer than 3 years, but at the same time it makes my mind up for the most part that I can't trade in every year because I get the itch.

Also thre is next to no interest on a lease as well, but that is why i tell people that the initial down payment/deposit/etc I would just kiss it goodbye and if you see anything at the end buy lottery tickets or soemthing because it is rare.

 

[glvsav37]

If I had to sell cars for a living I might off myself. Seriously.

My Bro-in-law sells Aston Martins. I don't think there is the same general #####-baggery there vs a regular dealership

 

[godgers12]

If I had to sell cars for a living I might off myself. Seriously.

My Bro-in-law sells Aston Martins. I don't think there is the same general #####-baggery there vs a regular dealership

There are good non-######## salesman everywhere from a tote the note used car lot all the way up to the high class lots. What is funny though is this doesn't change how they are making their money lol. I mean I guess it makes some people feel better to get bent over by a ncie person than a azzhole but unless you know what your doing the end result will always be the same no matter who you deal with.

 

[godgers12]

If I had to sell cars for a living I might off myself. Seriously.

My Bro-in-law sells Aston Martins. I don't think there is the same general #####-baggery there vs a regular dealership

Also it is different in the higher class lots for the mere fact that people buying these cars arent gonna haggle over even a couple thousand let alone walk away from a salesman that has invested 3 hours because they called the lot fown the road and they beat your price by 100.00.

 

[glvsav37]

If I had to sell cars for a living I might off myself. Seriously.

My Bro-in-law sells Aston Martins. I don't think there is the same general #####-baggery there vs a regular dealership

Also it is different in the higher class lots for the mere fact that people buying these cars arent gonna haggle over even a couple thousand let alone walk away from a salesman that has invested 3 hours because they called the lot fown the road and they beat your price by 100.00.

Thisthe whole deal is usually smoother. I can see some guys pinch pennies, but then again, thats how they can afford an AM in the 1st place.He's got some good stories, like when one of the NY Jets players credit got declined (I forgot who though, i'll ask)

 

[Dentist]

what was the most you ever overcharged anybody?

To be honest I didn;t have to many head ripper deals, but it wasn't because I didn't have the chances. There were obv the times where I would get certain people like either guys in country working for the oil business and their companies paid for their vehicles, I had no problems with a company like BP paying top dollar for a car, and the customer wasn't there to negotiate usually they would just say I want this vehicle and have xxx.xx amount car allowance, game on. The other type would be your typical ALL CASH buyer, usually on like a large SUV, used, to use for god knows what. Most I ever made personally in pocket from a deal is 3100.00

this is me, define this better please

 

[chet]

What about the Costco program? Heard that you get awesome prices using it.

 

[godgers12]

what was the most you ever overcharged anybody?

To be honest I didn;t have to many head ripper deals, but it wasn't because I didn't have the chances. There were obv the times where I would get certain people like either guys in country working for the oil business and their companies paid for their vehicles, I had no problems with a company like BP paying top dollar for a car, and the customer wasn't there to negotiate usually they would just say I want this vehicle and have xxx.xx amount car allowance, game on. The other type would be your typical ALL CASH buyer, usually on like a large SUV, used, to use for god knows what. Most I ever made personally in pocket from a deal is 3100.00

this is me, define this better please

Being this close to the border I meant I had no problem making a ton of money of someone that comes up usually looking for a large SUV, no kids, to do god knows what (run back and forth across the border). Guess I didn't clarify, but yea if someone guy in hsi 20s says "I WANT THIS ONE YO" and pulls out a money order or 25k in cash, needless to say I can be fairly firm on my price and usually come out with a ncie commission.I didnt mean anyone that pays cash for a used car by any means lol.

 

[godgers12]

What about the Costco program? Heard that you get awesome prices using it.

Not sure about the Costco program, if you mean they are a affiliate with certain manufacturers then yea we work with a ton of companies and basically you are paying a percent or two below invoice if you use a control number given by that company. Then the dealership can turn that control number in to the manufacturer and will get a certain amount of money for it.

 

[Dentist]

You really know a lot, no?Tell me, how crappy are Chrysler products, really?

To be honest Chrysler has changed their product 100000000%. If you haven't seen what they have in the past 4 years you should take a look. There is a TON of Italian influence now, and their interiors for not being a "luxury priced" car is second to none. I drive a Ram truck and wouldnt trade it for anything. Wife drives a Grand Cherokee and traded her X5 in for it and LOVES IT, and it was 2/3 the cost of her X5..

I really want a Cherokee because it's one of the few V8 smaller SUV's.. i dont' want a big SUV and almost none of the smaller one's have a V8 anymore... Pathfinder, 4-Runner, Explorer... none have a v8 anymore.But i've always heard miserable things about the reliability..... i don't care about options and interiors.. only engine performance and reliability of working mechanisms.How has yours done?The only thing i've seen with comparable towing in the same size is shockingly the VW Tourareg... and I don't want German engineering

 

[Tiger Fan]

You really know a lot, no?Tell me, how crappy are Chrysler products, really?

To be honest Chrysler has changed their product 100000000%. If you haven't seen what they have in the past 4 years you should take a look. There is a TON of Italian influence now, and their interiors for not being a "luxury priced" car is second to none. I drive a Ram truck and wouldnt trade it for anything. Wife drives a Grand Cherokee and traded her X5 in for it and LOVES IT, and it was 2/3 the cost of her X5..

I really want a Cherokee because it's one of the few V8 smaller SUV's.. i dont' want a big SUV and almost none of the smaller one's have a V8 anymore... Pathfinder, 4-Runner, Explorer... none have a v8 anymore.But i've always heard miserable things about the reliability..... i don't care about options and interiors.. only engine performance and reliability of working mechanisms.How has yours done?The only thing i've seen with comparable towing in the same size is shockingly the VW Tourareg... and I don't want German engineering

I've driven 4 different grand cherokees since I was 16. the first two were leases courtesy of my parents. My 3rd was a lease right out of grad school (bad financial decision). I've had my current one since 2006. Currently has 65k miles on it and have had zero issues at all outside of routine maintenance. I have the V6, not the V8. To me, the GC is the best value SUV that "doesn't look like a girl should be driving it". One thing that I've found is that the price is very inflated early in the model year...if you can wait until the back end of the year, you can save significantly. I was on the wrong end of that deal due to when the lease expired...as I could've paid $5k less if I waited 6 months. Nevertheless, I've been extremely satisfied with the performance.

 

[godgers12]

You really know a lot, no?Tell me, how crappy are Chrysler products, really?

To be honest Chrysler has changed their product 100000000%. If you haven't seen what they have in the past 4 years you should take a look. There is a TON of Italian influence now, and their interiors for not being a "luxury priced" car is second to none. I drive a Ram truck and wouldnt trade it for anything. Wife drives a Grand Cherokee and traded her X5 in for it and LOVES IT, and it was 2/3 the cost of her X5..

I really want a Cherokee because it's one of the few V8 smaller SUV's.. i dont' want a big SUV and almost none of the smaller one's have a V8 anymore... Pathfinder, 4-Runner, Explorer... none have a v8 anymore.But i've always heard miserable things about the reliability..... i don't care about options and interiors.. only engine performance and reliability of working mechanisms.How has yours done?The only thing i've seen with comparable towing in the same size is shockingly the VW Tourareg... and I don't want German engineering

seriously man all i can say is the Hemi is a Hemi, it is a tank, it is in both m truck and her Jeep and it is awesome, and now with the fuel saver tech on them you can get over 20 miles to the gallon on the highway its freakin sweet. Keep a fresh oil change and the thing will run forever.

 

[godgers12]

You really know a lot, no?Tell me, how crappy are Chrysler products, really?

To be honest Chrysler has changed their product 100000000%. If you haven't seen what they have in the past 4 years you should take a look. There is a TON of Italian influence now, and their interiors for not being a "luxury priced" car is second to none. I drive a Ram truck and wouldnt trade it for anything. Wife drives a Grand Cherokee and traded her X5 in for it and LOVES IT, and it was 2/3 the cost of her X5..

I really want a Cherokee because it's one of the few V8 smaller SUV's.. i dont' want a big SUV and almost none of the smaller one's have a V8 anymore... Pathfinder, 4-Runner, Explorer... none have a v8 anymore.But i've always heard miserable things about the reliability..... i don't care about options and interiors.. only engine performance and reliability of working mechanisms.How has yours done?The only thing i've seen with comparable towing in the same size is shockingly the VW Tourareg... and I don't want German engineering

I've driven 4 different grand cherokees since I was 16. the first two were leases courtesy of my parents. My 3rd was a lease right out of grad school (bad financial decision). I've had my current one since 2006. Currently has 65k miles on it and have had zero issues at all outside of routine maintenance. I have the V6, not the V8. To me, the GC is the best value SUV that "doesn't look like a girl should be driving it". One thing that I've found is that the price is very inflated early in the model year...if you can wait until the back end of the year, you can save significantly. I was on the wrong end of that deal due to when the lease expired...as I could've paid $5k less if I waited 6 months. Nevertheless, I've been extremely satisfied with the performance.

agree with a lot of this as well, sick part is the new V6 pentastar gets better MPG and is over 300HP for a V6, and the interior is miles from the older model. We cannot keep 06-10 Grand Cherokees in stock because of how reliable they are.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Godgers, or anyone...

Are you familiar with Carbargains? I used them years ago and had a good experience. Reviews seem mostly solid too, but I've always wondered about the deal I got.

 

[godgers12]

Godgers, or anyone...Are you familiar with Carbargains? I used them years ago and had a good experience. Reviews seem mostly solid too, but I've always wondered about the deal I got.

Never seen the site before but after a quick read it really seems they are doing what I and others say in here , which is get e prices from the dealerships around and use the best one to try and negotiate a little bit after that. To be honest I just have always felt I would rather do it myself than leave it up to someone else, especially if it is as simple as sending a few emails, or online chat with a few people to get those prices.

 

[cosmonaut]

 

[fightingillini]

This is a great thread.Not sure if this has been asked, but I can't understand why anyone would want to buy a new car, due to how much the car depreciates in the first couple of years. From now on, I only buy certified pre-owned cars that are 3 years old. Question is, in your opinion, is the markup for "certification" worth it or is better to just buy the car used from someone? Couple of years ago I bought a 2008 Acura RL certified with 25K miles for about 32K all in inlcuding taxes and title. Price was $30,400. I think the blue book value of it at that time was about $28,900, so the markup for certification was $1,500. I thought that was a good deal. Is a 5% markup a typical price to certify a car?

 

[NajehHejan]

godgers, you are the man. thanks for the thread. sorry if this was asked already, but say i have a car that is paid off and worth about 8k on the trade-in. say i want to lease a car where it would be about a 2k down payment and 200-300 per month. could i trade in my car for 8k, give them the 2k down, and get 6k cash back that i could theoretically bank and use for the first few year's payments? not sure if they let you trade-in a car and do a lease instead of buy.

 

[comfortably numb]

This is a great thread.Not sure if this has been asked, but I can't understand why anyone would want to buy a new car, due to how much the car depreciates in the first couple of years. From now on, I only buy certified pre-owned cars that are 3 years old. Question is, in your opinion, is the markup for "certification" worth it or is better to just buy the car used from someone? Couple of years ago I bought a 2008 Acura RL certified with 25K miles for about 32K all in inlcuding taxes and title. Price was $30,400. I think the blue book value of it at that time was about $28,900, so the markup for certification was $1,500. I thought that was a good deal. Is a 5% markup a typical price to certify a car?

When i bought my new car last year, prices for cars a couple years old were only 1-3k less, and the interest rate for a used car(3-4%) was higher then new(0-1%)

 

[gmbacm]

This is a great thread.Not sure if this has been asked, but I can't understand why anyone would want to buy a new car, due to how much the car depreciates in the first couple of years. From now on, I only buy certified pre-owned cars that are 3 years old. Question is, in your opinion, is the markup for "certification" worth it or is better to just buy the car used from someone? Couple of years ago I bought a 2008 Acura RL certified with 25K miles for about 32K all in inlcuding taxes and title. Price was $30,400. I think the blue book value of it at that time was about $28,900, so the markup for certification was $1,500. I thought that was a good deal. Is a 5% markup a typical price to certify a car?

When i bought my new car last year, prices for cars a couple years old were only 1-3k less, and the interest rate for a used car(3-4%) was higher then new(0-1%)

When I was looking last year quite a few models with dealer incentives and low financing had cheaper prices on end of year 2012 vehicles then used 2011. Just slightly higher then 2010 prices, but with full warranty well worth the difference.

 

[Nugget]

godgers, you are the man. thanks for the thread. sorry if this was asked already, but say i have a car that is paid off and worth about 8k on the trade-in. say i want to lease a car where it would be about a 2k down payment and 200-300 per month. could i trade in my car for 8k, give them the 2k down, and get 6k cash back that i could theoretically bank and use for the first few year's payments? not sure if they let you trade-in a car and do a lease instead of buy.

You could do that with a lease. There are also options for a prepaid lease, where you could do a 24-39 month lease and just pay upfront. With current savings rates, it may make sense. You'd still be responsible for excess wear and mileage.

 

[Nugget]

This is a great thread.Not sure if this has been asked, but I can't understand why anyone would want to buy a new car, due to how much the car depreciates in the first couple of years. From now on, I only buy certified pre-owned cars that are 3 years old. Question is, in your opinion, is the markup for "certification" worth it or is better to just buy the car used from someone? Couple of years ago I bought a 2008 Acura RL certified with 25K miles for about 32K all in inlcuding taxes and title. Price was $30,400. I think the blue book value of it at that time was about $28,900, so the markup for certification was $1,500. I thought that was a good deal. Is a 5% markup a typical price to certify a car?

Most certified vehicles will book for $1000 - $2000 more than a non certified vehicles. The dealer pays a certification fee between $400 and $1000 to the manufacturer for the extened service contract and marketing. The dealer also has increased reconditioning costs as there are more rules ( need 2 key fobs, need floormats and new wipers, rules on tire and brake pad wear). Sometimes new makes more sense than used. If a 30K car is going to be worth 5K in 10 years, I'm looking at straight line ownership cost of $2500 year. In reality, I'd rather drive the first 3 years of a car than the last 7 (new car feel, lower maintenance costs). If it came down to buying new for 30K or used for 3 years old for 22.5, I'd probably choose new. For me the break even point is somewhere closer to 60% of transaction price for a 3 year old car. I've leased my wife's last 2 cars and have been very happy.

 

[Nugget]

You really know a lot, no?Tell me, how crappy are Chrysler products, really?

To be honest Chrysler has changed their product 100000000%. If you haven't seen what they have in the past 4 years you should take a look. There is a TON of Italian influence now, and their interiors for not being a "luxury priced" car is second to none. I drive a Ram truck and wouldnt trade it for anything. Wife drives a Grand Cherokee and traded her X5 in for it and LOVES IT, and it was 2/3 the cost of her X5..

I really want a Cherokee because it's one of the few V8 smaller SUV's.. i dont' want a big SUV and almost none of the smaller one's have a V8 anymore... Pathfinder, 4-Runner, Explorer... none have a v8 anymore.But i've always heard miserable things about the reliability..... i don't care about options and interiors.. only engine performance and reliability of working mechanisms.How has yours done?The only thing i've seen with comparable towing in the same size is shockingly the VW Tourareg... and I don't want German engineering

Why do you want a V8? 350+ HP out of a V6 works well. I've driven the Flex, Taurus SHO, F-150, and Explorer Sport with the 3.5L Ecoboost and don't think you would want any more torque. They all scream. I've driven Hemi 1500's as well and they were a blast, but I didn't feel any more power.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Godgers, or anyone...Are you familiar with Carbargains? I used them years ago and had a good experience. Reviews seem mostly solid too, but I've always wondered about the deal I got.

Never seen the site before but after a quick read it really seems they are doing what I and others say in here , which is get e prices from the dealerships around and use the best one to try and negotiate a little bit after that. To be honest I just have always felt I would rather do it myself than leave it up to someone else, especially if it is as simple as sending a few emails, or online chat with a few people to get those prices.

I think the idea is that since Carbargains 'buys' upwards of 10,000 cars a year and the dealers know they probably only have one shot at it, they're quicker to give you the actual best price than they would if Joe Average called or e-mailed. That make sense?

 

[Nugget]

Godgers, or anyone...Are you familiar with Carbargains? I used them years ago and had a good experience. Reviews seem mostly solid too, but I've always wondered about the deal I got.

Never seen the site before but after a quick read it really seems they are doing what I and others say in here , which is get e prices from the dealerships around and use the best one to try and negotiate a little bit after that. To be honest I just have always felt I would rather do it myself than leave it up to someone else, especially if it is as simple as sending a few emails, or online chat with a few people to get those prices.

I think the idea is that since Carbargains 'buys' upwards of 10,000 cars a year and the dealers know they probably only have one shot at it, they're quicker to give you the actual best price than they would if Joe Average called or e-mailed. That make sense?

I think I could get the same deal or better and save the $200 fee. Dealers hate brokers and many won't respond. If they are email blasting 25 stores for a quote, why respond? Inventory on hot models are still very tight.