QB Aaron Rodgers, Free Agent (7 Viewers)

[menobrown]

There are already too many Steelers-centric threads, so rather than start another one, I'll ask Steelers fans here. The last time the Steelers won a playoff game was 2016.

The reason for that is ______________. Fill in the blank. I am looking for the primary, biggest reason, not a 46-page report with 12 chapters and a full breakdown of the 132 different potential reasons. Pick the top reason only. For examples, "injuries," "Tomlin," "offensive scheme," "quarterback production," "poor drafting," "game planning," "lack of in-game adjustments," etc. Feel free to expound on your answer, but stick to that one explanation as the primary cause.

The top paid defense in the league crumbles and plays like one of the cheapest/worst.

 

[Joe Bryant]

There are already too many Steelers-centric threads, so rather than start another one, I'll ask Steelers fans here. The last time the Steelers won a playoff game was 2016.

The reason for that is ______________. Fill in the blank. I am looking for the primary, biggest reason, not a 46-page report with 12 chapters and a full breakdown of the 132 different potential reasons. Pick the top reason only. For examples, "injuries," "Tomlin," "offensive scheme," "quarterback production," "poor drafting," "game planning," "lack of in-game adjustments," etc. Feel free to expound on your answer, but stick to that one explanation as the primary cause.

That's a good question. But probably way more appropriate for the Steelers thread than the Rodgers thread. https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/2025-pittsburgh-steelers-starting-qb-tbd-later.815627/

 

[BoltNlava]

QB/Tomlin with lack of QB.

I’d go with QB.

For some weird reason I still like Tomlin. I’ve never seen a team quit on him. He seems like a quality HC.

I know Steelers fans seem pretty tired of him, but I had to endure a decade of Jim Tomsula, Singletary, Mike Nolan, Chip Kelly, Dennis Erickson, and Jim Tomsula again.

I’d trade any one of them for Tomlin. Seems like a familiarity breeds contempt/grass is greener kinda thing.

Yes, but Tomlin could never hide/use/coordinate when QB play was bad/average. Even the D he created faltered. I understand great QB play hides a lot of average/poor play everywhere else, but isn't that why you have a great HC? He needs to raise a team above or compensate for when QB is average or below par. Titans come to mind here.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

I’ve never seen a team quit on him. He seems like a quality HC.

Sure looked/felt like they did last year.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Sure looked/felt like they did last year.

Didn't they have a number of defensive injuries? Maybe I'm misremembering that.

 

[menobrown]

Sure looked/felt like they did last year.

Didn't they have a number of defensive injuries? Maybe I'm misremembering that.

Not really.

The playoff game was so ugly it looked the team quit Tomlin and he responded by quitting on them.

Low point of his career IMO.

 

[nightmare]

There are already too many Steelers-centric threads, so rather than start another one, I'll ask Steelers fans here. The last time the Steelers won a playoff game was 2016.

The reason for that is ______________. Fill in the blank. I am looking for the primary, biggest reason, not a 46-page report with 12 chapters and a full breakdown of the 132 different potential reasons. Pick the top reason only. For examples, "injuries," "Tomlin," "offensive scheme," "quarterback production," "poor drafting," "game planning," "lack of in-game adjustments," etc. Feel free to expound on your answer, but stick to that one explanation as the primary cause.

Comfort. The Rooneys are comfortable with the situation. Two things. They have decades of history rolling with whomever as starting QB. (Bradshaw and Big Ben are the exception).
The second thing? No incentive to change this. They are raking in money with ticket sales (home and away), have a small coaching, scouting and front office staff.(lower payroll)

Take a few moments and think about this before unloading a response.

You want to think about the Cowher years of playoff games with average?/below average? QB's and that this IS how they operate.

The difference is Cowher started with crap and ended with a Super bowl and Tomlin started with a Super Bowl.

This situation isn't new to the Rooneys.

 

[Joe Bryant]

There are already too many Steelers-centric threads, so rather than start another one, I'll ask Steelers fans here. The last time the Steelers won a playoff game was 2016.

The reason for that is ______________. Fill in the blank. I am looking for the primary, biggest reason, not a 46-page report with 12 chapters and a full breakdown of the 132 different potential reasons. Pick the top reason only. For examples, "injuries," "Tomlin," "offensive scheme," "quarterback production," "poor drafting," "game planning," "lack of in-game adjustments," etc. Feel free to expound on your answer, but stick to that one explanation as the primary cause.

Comfort. The Rooneys are comfortable with the situation. Two things. They have decades of history rolling with whomever as starting QB. (Bradshaw and Big Ben are the exception).
The second thing? No incentive to change this. They are raking in money with ticket sales (home and away), have a small coaching, scouting and front office staff.(lower payroll)

Take a few moments and think about this before unloading a response.

You want to think about the Cowher years of playoff games with average?/below average? QB's and that this IS how they operate.

The difference is Cowher started with crap and ended with a Super bowl and Tomlin started with a Super Bowl.

This situation isn't new to the Rooneys.

Thanks. Can you please share the link for the lower payroll for the coaching, scouting and front office staff?

I know Tomlin is well paid.

The Highest-Paid Head Coaches in the NFL​

The Top 20 Highest-Paid NFL Head Coaches

Andy Reid became the highest-paid coach in the NFL after signing a new 5-year extension in April. Here's the full list of top-earning HCs.

frontofficesports.com

Jim Harbaugh of the Chargers and Mike Tomlin of the Steelers are tied for third earning $16 million annually.

But I don't see info on the entire front office and how it ranks. Can you please share the source there?

 

[Tau837]

He hit over on those yards, TD's, and games started last year. Only hit over on the int's by 0.5. And was wayyy under on the wins.

Get out of here with those facts.

I do wonder how another year past major surgery will affect things. If at all. Clearly, another year older hurts, but I wonder how much that’s offset by more recovery time from the Achilles.

If he plays again, we’ll see then.

Do you think he will have close to as many pass attempts in PIT?

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Sure looked/felt like they did last year.

Didn't they have a number of defensive injuries? Maybe I'm misremembering that.

Not last season, no.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Sure looked/felt like they did last year.

Didn't they have a number of defensive injuries? Maybe I'm misremembering that.

Not last season, no.

Fair enough - I guess it was only their pride that was hurt.


Funny thing - looking at that game now, it seems like it was closer on paper than the score. About the same TOP, total yards. Other than the 2 turnovers it looks close - though I recall watching and it didn’t feel at all close. Bills D was a bad matchup.

 

[Joe Bryant]

He hit over on those yards, TD's, and games started last year. Only hit over on the int's by 0.5. And was wayyy under on the wins.

Get out of here with those facts.

I do wonder how another year past major surgery will affect things. If at all. Clearly, another year older hurts, but I wonder how much that’s offset by more recovery time from the Achilles.

If he plays again, we’ll see then.

Do you think he will have close to as many pass attempts in PIT?

Would make sense to see the attempts drop. Jets had 607 and Steelers had 499 last year. How much of that was Fields and Wilson is a question.

What do you think?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

He hit over on those yards, TD's, and games started last year. Only hit over on the int's by 0.5. And was wayyy under on the wins.

Get out of here with those facts.

I do wonder how another year past major surgery will affect things. If at all. Clearly, another year older hurts, but I wonder how much that’s offset by more recovery time from the Achilles.

If he plays again, we’ll see then.

Do you think he will have close to as many pass attempts in PIT?

Would make sense to see the attempts drop. Jets had 607 and Steelers had 499 last year. How much of that was Fields and Wilson is a question.

What do you think?

They also lost Najee to FA and have Warren & Kaleb Johnson, so it’s hard to say they’ll be as effective running the ball until we see it.

I don’t expect them to throw as much as NYJ, but a lot will have to do with how well their defense is playing. As others have pointed out, end of season/post season that defense slipped a lot.

If they are the same caliber defense as they were early in the year, I expect them to be closer to 499 than 607. But like I said, that’s going to depend on how successfully they can run the ball.

Interestingly, looking at their total plays they passed ~57% of the time, which I wouldn’t have expected from that 499 number. Maybe they had more 3 & outs?

Seems like a difficult situation to predict given all the variables.

 

[nightmare]

There are already too many Steelers-centric threads, so rather than start another one, I'll ask Steelers fans here. The last time the Steelers won a playoff game was 2016.

The reason for that is ______________. Fill in the blank. I am looking for the primary, biggest reason, not a 46-page report with 12 chapters and a full breakdown of the 132 different potential reasons. Pick the top reason only. For examples, "injuries," "Tomlin," "offensive scheme," "quarterback production," "poor drafting," "game planning," "lack of in-game adjustments," etc. Feel free to expound on your answer, but stick to that one explanation as the primary cause.

Comfort. The Rooneys are comfortable with the situation. Two things. They have decades of history rolling with whomever as starting QB. (Bradshaw and Big Ben are the exception).
The second thing? No incentive to change this. They are raking in money with ticket sales (home and away), have a small coaching, scouting and front office staff.(lower payroll)

Take a few moments and think about this before unloading a response.

You want to think about the Cowher years of playoff games with average?/below average? QB's and that this IS how they operate.

The difference is Cowher started with crap and ended with a Super bowl and Tomlin started with a Super Bowl.

This situation isn't new to the Rooneys.

Thanks. Can you please share the link for the lower payroll for the coaching, scouting and front office staff?

I know Tomlin is well paid.

The Highest-Paid Head Coaches in the NFL​

The Top 20 Highest-Paid NFL Head Coaches

Andy Reid became the highest-paid coach in the NFL after signing a new 5-year extension in April. Here's the full list of top-earning HCs.

frontofficesports.com

Jim Harbaugh of the Chargers and Mike Tomlin of the Steelers are tied for third earning $16 million annually.

But I don't see info on the entire front office and how it ranks. Can you please share the source there?

It's not a single specific source. more google/reddit. There is no hard number ranking.

 

[Joe Bryant]

There are already too many Steelers-centric threads, so rather than start another one, I'll ask Steelers fans here. The last time the Steelers won a playoff game was 2016.

The reason for that is ______________. Fill in the blank. I am looking for the primary, biggest reason, not a 46-page report with 12 chapters and a full breakdown of the 132 different potential reasons. Pick the top reason only. For examples, "injuries," "Tomlin," "offensive scheme," "quarterback production," "poor drafting," "game planning," "lack of in-game adjustments," etc. Feel free to expound on your answer, but stick to that one explanation as the primary cause.

Comfort. The Rooneys are comfortable with the situation. Two things. They have decades of history rolling with whomever as starting QB. (Bradshaw and Big Ben are the exception).
The second thing? No incentive to change this. They are raking in money with ticket sales (home and away), have a small coaching, scouting and front office staff.(lower payroll)

Take a few moments and think about this before unloading a response.

You want to think about the Cowher years of playoff games with average?/below average? QB's and that this IS how they operate.

The difference is Cowher started with crap and ended with a Super bowl and Tomlin started with a Super Bowl.

This situation isn't new to the Rooneys.

Thanks. Can you please share the link for the lower payroll for the coaching, scouting and front office staff?

I know Tomlin is well paid.

The Highest-Paid Head Coaches in the NFL​

The Top 20 Highest-Paid NFL Head Coaches

Andy Reid became the highest-paid coach in the NFL after signing a new 5-year extension in April. Here's the full list of top-earning HCs.

frontofficesports.com

Jim Harbaugh of the Chargers and Mike Tomlin of the Steelers are tied for third earning $16 million annually.

But I don't see info on the entire front office and how it ranks. Can you please share the source there?

It's not a single specific source. more google/reddit. There is no hard number ranking.

Thanks. What are the returns from Google and Reddit that make you think they're on the low end of the front office payroll though?

They are on the top end for Head Coach pay which I would guess makes up a signficant part of every team's Coaching/Front Office budget.

 

[Tau837]

He hit over on those yards, TD's, and games started last year. Only hit over on the int's by 0.5. And was wayyy under on the wins.

Get out of here with those facts.

I do wonder how another year past major surgery will affect things. If at all. Clearly, another year older hurts, but I wonder how much that’s offset by more recovery time from the Achilles.

If he plays again, we’ll see then.

Do you think he will have close to as many pass attempts in PIT?

Would make sense to see the attempts drop. Jets had 607 and Steelers had 499 last year. How much of that was Fields and Wilson is a question.

What do you think?

It seems most likely to me that Rodgers in the same offense will have fewer sacks and scrambles than Wilson/Fields and could maybe get up to 530 passing attempts... if he plays 17 games again. That delta of 50+ fewer passing attempts will drop Rodgers down in all cumulative statistics.

He also won't be playing with a set of passing game targets as talented as WR Wilson, WR Adams, RB Hall, and TE Conklin.

So the fact Rodgers was over the marks HSG threw out last season in a different situation doesn't seem particularly relevant to me.

 

[Tau837]

He hit over on those yards, TD's, and games started last year. Only hit over on the int's by 0.5. And was wayyy under on the wins.

Get out of here with those facts.

I do wonder how another year past major surgery will affect things. If at all. Clearly, another year older hurts, but I wonder how much that’s offset by more recovery time from the Achilles.

If he plays again, we’ll see then.

Do you think he will have close to as many pass attempts in PIT?

Would make sense to see the attempts drop. Jets had 607 and Steelers had 499 last year. How much of that was Fields and Wilson is a question.

What do you think?

They also lost Najee to FA and have Warren & Kaleb Johnson, so it’s hard to say they’ll be as effective running the ball until we see it.

I don’t expect them to throw as much as NYJ, but a lot will have to do with how well their defense is playing. As others have pointed out, end of season/post season that defense slipped a lot.

If they are the same caliber defense as they were early in the year, I expect them to be closer to 499 than 607. But like I said, that’s going to depend on how successfully they can run the ball.

Interestingly, looking at their total plays they passed ~57% of the time, which I wouldn’t have expected from that 499 number. Maybe they had more 3 & outs?

Seems like a difficult situation to predict given all the variables.

Per PFF, in the 2024 regular season, PIT dropped back to pass 588 times and called designed runs 497 times (note: 38 dropbacks turned into scrambles, but those were called passing plays). That is 54.2% called passes.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Per PFF, in the 2024 regular season, PIT dropped back to pass 588 times and called designed runs 497 times (note: 38 dropbacks turned into scrambles, but those were called passing plays). That is 54.2% called passes.

Ok, that’s a little closer to what I’d expect to see. Thanks for that - definitely helpful context.

Just goes to show how sometimes stats can skew the big picture.

 

[Anarchy99]

Per PFF, in the 2024 regular season, PIT dropped back to pass 588 times and called designed runs 497 times (note: 38 dropbacks turned into scrambles, but those were called passing plays). That is 54.2% called passes.

Ok, that’s a little closer to what I’d expect to see. Thanks for that - definitely helpful context.

Just goes to show how sometimes stats can skew the big picture.

I don't know if the best strategy is to have Rodgers drop back 600+ times. He's not going to pull the ball down and run, he may be at the point where he holds onto the ball a bit too long, and it's not in his best interest to take a ton of hits at 42. As far as the history of 42-year-old QBs go, Brady had 4 seasons that age or older with 600+ passing attempts (including 2 of 700+ at 44 and 45). The next highest total in passing attempts in a season at 42 or older was Warren Moon with 258. Rogers had the most passing attempts for a QB at 41 last year with 584 (Brady "only" had 570.) We're sort of entering unchartered territory, as I am not sure there will be too many QBs like Brady throwing 2,675 passes from age 42 forward (Moon is second with 295 attempts).

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Per PFF, in the 2024 regular season, PIT dropped back to pass 588 times and called designed runs 497 times (note: 38 dropbacks turned into scrambles, but those were called passing plays). That is 54.2% called passes.

Ok, that’s a little closer to what I’d expect to see. Thanks for that - definitely helpful context.

Just goes to show how sometimes stats can skew the big picture.

I don't know if the best strategy is to have Rodgers drop back 600+ times. He's not going to pull the ball down and run, he may be at the point where he holds onto the ball a bit too long, and it's not in his best interest to take a ton of hits at 42. As far as the history of 42-year-old QBs go, Brady had 4 seasons that age or older with 600+ passing attempts (including 2 of 700+ at 44 and 45). The next highest total in passing attempts in a season at 42 or older was Warren Moon with 258. Rogers had the most passing attempts for a QB at 41 last year with 584 (Brady "only" had 570.) We're sort of entering uncharted territory, as I am not sure there will be too many QBs like Brady throwing 2,675 passes from age 42 forward (Moon is second with 295 attempts).

Good points, all.

Also I don’t see it in the Steelers DNA to throw that much, but i don’t profess to be a Steelers expert.

 

[Anarchy99]

Also I don’t see it in the Steelers DNA to throw that much, but i don’t profess to be a Steelers expert.

I don't profess to be a Steelers expert either, but Big Ben had 675 attempts and 5,129 passing yards when he was 36. He also eclipsed 600 attempts at 38 and 39, so I'd say it's certainly something they could pull off if they wanted to. I guess it would depend on the game script and game flow as to what they would do from week to week. I don't follow the Steelers enough to tell if their drop off in passing attempts was due to lack of faith in their QBs, trying to rely on the run game, or having the lead and a stout defense (where passing a ton wasn't necessary). I would guess likely a blend of all of those, but we'd need more input from true fans to provide some context to that.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Also I don’t see it in the Steelers DNA to throw that much, but i don’t profess to be a Steelers expert.

I don't profess to be a Steelers expert either, but Big Ben had 675 attempts and 5,129 passing yards when he was 36. He also eclipsed 600 attempts at 38 and 39, so I'd say it's certainly something they could pull off if they wanted to. I guess it would depend on the game script and game flow as to what they would do from week to week. I don't follow the Steelers enough to tell if their drop off in passing attempts was due to lack of faith in their QBs, trying to rely on the run game, or having the lead and a stout defense (where passing a ton wasn't necessary). I would guess likely a blend of all of those, but we'd need more input from true fans to provide some context to that.

That was under OC’s not named Arthur Smith IIRC. The likes of Mike Mularkey, Ken Whisenhunt, Bruce Arians, Todd Haley, Randy Fichtner, and Matt Canada - lot of vertical passing games there.

I guess I should have said “Arthur Smith’s DNA” - he seems like more of a run-oriented coach.

 

[sm8680]

Joe Bryant has a point Mike Tomlin is indeed one of the highest-paid head coaches in the NFL. However, coaching payroll isn't just about the head coach's salary; it also includes the salaries of assistant coaches, coordinators, and other staff.

While I couldn't find a direct comparison of coaching payrolls across teams, one factor that might contribute to a lower overall coaching payroll for the Steelers is their smaller coaching staff compared to teams like the Philadelphia Eagles. Some teams invest heavily in a large coaching staff, which can drive up their total payroll.

 

[Anarchy99]

I guess I should have said “Arthur Smith’s DNA” - he seems like more of a run-oriented coach.

Don't have a ton of time to research this thoroughly, but here were the actual passing and rushing attempt numbers for Smith teams:

2019 - TEN 448 / 445
2020 - TEN 485 / 521
2021 - ATL 573 / 393
2022 - ATL 415 / 559
2023 - ATL 530 / 522
2024 - PIT 499 / 533

 

[nightmare]

There are already too many Steelers-centric threads, so rather than start another one, I'll ask Steelers fans here. The last time the Steelers won a playoff game was 2016.

The reason for that is ______________. Fill in the blank. I am looking for the primary, biggest reason, not a 46-page report with 12 chapters and a full breakdown of the 132 different potential reasons. Pick the top reason only. For examples, "injuries," "Tomlin," "offensive scheme," "quarterback production," "poor drafting," "game planning," "lack of in-game adjustments," etc. Feel free to expound on your answer, but stick to that one explanation as the primary cause.

Comfort. The Rooneys are comfortable with the situation. Two things. They have decades of history rolling with whomever as starting QB. (Bradshaw and Big Ben are the exception).
The second thing? No incentive to change this. They are raking in money with ticket sales (home and away), have a small coaching, scouting and front office staff.(lower payroll)

Take a few moments and think about this before unloading a response.

You want to think about the Cowher years of playoff games with average?/below average? QB's and that this IS how they operate.

The difference is Cowher started with crap and ended with a Super bowl and Tomlin started with a Super Bowl.

This situation isn't new to the Rooneys.

Thanks. Can you please share the link for the lower payroll for the coaching, scouting and front office staff?

I know Tomlin is well paid.

The Highest-Paid Head Coaches in the NFL​

The Top 20 Highest-Paid NFL Head Coaches

Andy Reid became the highest-paid coach in the NFL after signing a new 5-year extension in April. Here's the full list of top-earning HCs.

frontofficesports.com

Jim Harbaugh of the Chargers and Mike Tomlin of the Steelers are tied for third earning $16 million annually.

But I don't see info on the entire front office and how it ranks. Can you please share the source there?

It's not a single specific source. more google/reddit. There is no hard number ranking.

Thanks. What are the returns from Google and Reddit that make you think they're on the low end of the front office payroll though?

They are on the top end for Head Coach pay which I would guess makes up a signficant part of every team's Coaching/Front Office budget.

I'll do a deeper dive into this but the NFL is divided into the teams that are owned by Billionaires -Seahawks, Browns, Patriots, Etc.
versus owners where the team is their only big asset. Raiders, Steelers, Cardinals, Colts. . .

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I'll do a deeper dive into this but the NFL is divided into the teams that are owned by Billionaires -Seahawks, Browns, Patriots, Etc.
versus owners where the team is their only big asset. Raiders, Steelers, Cardinals, Colts. . .

Topic aside, (and I haven’t really looked at the others) but Art Rooney II has a net worth of 1.2B

so he’s also a billionaire.

Here’s the list.

NFL’s Richest Owners Ranked From 32 to 1 (Updated 2025)

Who are the richest owners in the NFL, and how did they amass their fortunes? How do they stack up against each other in terms of net worth?

www.profootballnetwork.com

 

[5-ish Finkle]

What are the returns from Google and Reddit that make you think they're on the low end of the front office payroll though?

No idea specifically what theyre finding on Google for actual salaries, but Pittsburgh absolutely has had one of the smallest (if not the smallest) coaching/support staffs in the league for at least a couple/few years now.

I dont know that it correlates to anything at all, but "less coaches likely cost less" and they dont really have any ace assistants to demand a massive bag, so it wouldnt be shocking if overall their FO payroll behind Mikey is probably pretty skinny relative to the league.

 

[Godsbrother]

Dan Graziano:

On Monday's "Get Up," Dan Graziano talked about the future Hall of Famer and whether or not the Steelers should wait on him. While also issuing a warning to Mike Tomlin and the decision-makers in Pittsburgh. "Everyone wants to talk about Aaron Rodgers going to the Steelers, and that's their hope. This is not MVP Aaron Rodgers. This is not 2020 Aaron Rodgers. This is a shell of that," Graziano admitted to this morning's panel. "He was a bad quarterback in the NFL last season. He was not markedly better last season than Mason Rudolph was for the Tennessee Titans when he played. ... I think Aaron Rodgers is fine if he shows up and I think the Steelers are probably fine if he doesn't."

Looking at Rudolph's starts last year, this was actually a lot closer than I thought. Basically identical except that Rudolph had a higher propensity to throw INTs.

Yards per game
Rudolph: 229
Rodgers: 229

TDs per game
Rudolph: 1.5
Rodgers: 1.6

INTs per game
Rudolph: 1.5
Rodgers: 0.6

YPA
Rudolph: 6.8
Rodgers: 6.7

Completion pct
Rudolph: 64%
Rodgers: 63%

Also worth noting that Rudolph arguably had less to work with than A-A-Ron.

And not for nuthin, teammates seem to love Rudolph.

If you're the Steelers, would you rather have Mason Rudolph or Aaron Rodgers as the starter this season?

It depends on the price for Rodgers. A one year, $10 million deal then I sign Rodgers.

Anything more, I roll with Rudolph

 

[pinkstapler]

There are already too many Steelers-centric threads, so rather than start another one, I'll ask Steelers fans here. The last time the Steelers won a playoff game was 2016.

The reason for that is ______________. Fill in the blank. I am looking for the primary, biggest reason, not a 46-page report with 12 chapters and a full breakdown of the 132 different potential reasons. Pick the top reason only. For examples, "injuries," "Tomlin," "offensive scheme," "quarterback production," "poor drafting," "game planning," "lack of in-game adjustments," etc. Feel free to expound on your answer, but stick to that one explanation as the primary cause.

Comfort. The Rooneys are comfortable with the situation. Two things. They have decades of history rolling with whomever as starting QB. (Bradshaw and Big Ben are the exception).
The second thing? No incentive to change this. They are raking in money with ticket sales (home and away), have a small coaching, scouting and front office staff.(lower payroll)

Take a few moments and think about this before unloading a response.

You want to think about the Cowher years of playoff games with average?/below average? QB's and that this IS how they operate.

The difference is Cowher started with crap and ended with a Super bowl and Tomlin started with a Super Bowl.

This situation isn't new to the Rooneys.

Solid overall take. I've always felt similar and would maybe only tack on if the Steelers DO have a certain overarching "identity" they've liked to stick too under the Rooneys; it's around having a physically tough, blue collar defense.

And if Steelers fans are being completely honest with themselves, Bradshaw may be an exception to our historical lack of good QBs; but just by a little bit. He was never really considered elite, even when he was winning the SBs. You'd ask guys on the street who their favorite player was and Bradshaw was rarely the first answer you get. For many, he probably wasn't even top three. Obviously the SBs made him an NFL star; but I think much of the recognition he has today is at the level it is for the things he did AFTER football.

I guess to be fair to the Steelers, but also kind of proving your point, they basically never draft a QB high and the two times they did they luckily hit with Bradshaw and Ben. Adding more to this historical trend of not prioritizing the position, apparently Cowher and Colbert didn't even want MACtion Ben at 11 and were going to pass for OL; it was Dan who hit the "I'm the owner" button and made them take him out of fear of facing another Marino mistake.

 

[Joe Bryant]

What are the returns from Google and Reddit that make you think they're on the low end of the front office payroll though?

No idea specifically what theyre finding on Google for actual salaries, but Pittsburgh absolutely has had one of the smallest (if not the smallest) coaching/support staffs in the league for at least a couple/few years now.

I dont know that it correlates to anything at all, but "less coaches likely cost less" and they dont really have any ace assistants to demand a massive bag, so it wouldnt be shocking if overall their FO payroll behind Mikey is probably pretty skinny relative to the league.

Thanks.

What is the source or link that they have one of the smallest (if not the smallest) coaching/support staffs in the league? I'm genuinely interested there as I think the non salary capped part of the business is interesting. Always good to have the facts when they're available.

For @nightmare 's assertion that the reason Pittsburgh struggles is because of "comfort" and that the Rooneys are comfortable with the situation saying they have "no incentive to change this. They are raking in money with ticket sales (home and away), have a small coaching, scouting and front office staff.(lower payroll)" the total payroll for the coaching staff and front office would be the relevant factor. Not the number of staff. I'd be very interested to know the facts on that as I didn't understand things to be as @nightmare said.

The only piece I knew was they rank at near the very top of the league for how much money they spend on their head coach. I would think the head coach is a big part of that expense but I'd like to see the facts on the rest before I accept the fault lies with the Rooneys being comfortable and not spending as much money as the other teams.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

It depends on the price for Rodgers. A one year, $10 million deal then I sign Rodgers.

Anything more, I roll with Rudolph

Sensible take.

Exactly the point I’ve been making in here.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

What is the source or link that they have one of the smallest (if not the smallest) coaching/support staffs in the league? I'm genuinely interested there as I think the non salary capped part of the business is interesting. Always good to have the facts when they're available.

Steelers Depot reported on it for sure, at one point, but I'm not going and digging for the exact article since this isn't my argument.

 

[Chaka]

Since Jan 1, 2025 this thread has grown by 31 pages.

Since Jan 1, 2025 the Mason Rudolph thread has grown by 6 posts.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Since Jan 1, 2025 this thread has grown by 31 pages.

Since Jan 1, 2025 the Mason Rudolph thread has grown by 6 posts.

Poor Mason Rudolph. Rodney Dangerfield of QBs.

 

[Anarchy99]

Poor Mason Rudolph. Rodney Dangerfield of QBs.

I do not feel badly for Mason. Not even a little bit. He dated Eugenie Bouchard for over 2 years.

 

[brewer]

There are already too many Steelers-centric threads, so rather than start another one, I'll ask Steelers fans here. The last time the Steelers won a playoff game was 2016.

The reason for that is ______________. Fill in the blank. I am looking for the primary, biggest reason, not a 46-page report with 12 chapters and a full breakdown of the 132 different potential reasons. Pick the top reason only. For examples, "injuries," "Tomlin," "offensive scheme," "quarterback production," "poor drafting," "game planning," "lack of in-game adjustments," etc. Feel free to expound on your answer, but stick to that one explanation as the primary cause.

Comfort. The Rooneys are comfortable with the situation. Two things. They have decades of history rolling with whomever as starting QB. (Bradshaw and Big Ben are the exception).
The second thing? No incentive to change this. They are raking in money with ticket sales (home and away), have a small coaching, scouting and front office staff.(lower payroll)

Take a few moments and think about this before unloading a response.

You want to think about the Cowher years of playoff games with average?/below average? QB's and that this IS how they operate.

The difference is Cowher started with crap and ended with a Super bowl and Tomlin started with a Super Bowl.

This situation isn't new to the Rooneys.

Solid overall take. I've always felt similar and would maybe only tack on if the Steelers DO have a certain overarching "identity" they've liked to stick too under the Rooneys; it's around having a physically tough, blue collar defense.

And if Steelers fans are being completely honest with themselves, Bradshaw may be an exception to our historical lack of good QBs; but just by a little bit. He was never really considered elite, even when he was winning the SBs. You'd ask guys on the street who their favorite player was and Bradshaw was rarely the first answer you get. For many, he probably wasn't even top three. Obviously the SBs made him an NFL star; but I think much of the recognition he has today is at the level it is for the things he did AFTER football.

I guess to be fair to the Steelers, but also kind of proving your point, they basically never draft a QB high and the two times they did they luckily hit with Bradshaw and Ben. Adding more to this historical trend of not prioritizing the position, apparently Cowher and Colbert didn't even want MACtion Ben at 11 and were going to pass for OL; it was Dan who hit the "I'm the owner" button and made them take him out of fear of facing another Marino mistake.

I think since this is a fantasy football board, we get caught up in the statistics more often than not. However, a QBs main job is to win games, Bradshaw was 107-51 for his career and 14-5 in the playoffs with 4 Super Bowl wins which puts him tied at #2 on that list with Joe Montana. Yes, he was fortunate to play on an amazing team with many Hall of Fame teammates but he wasn't just some care taker, he was most certainly a leader.

Maybe our definitions of elite are different, but if you hold the second most championships of all QBs ever, I think you should probably be considered elite at your job.

 

[Joe Bryant]

What is the source or link that they have one of the smallest (if not the smallest) coaching/support staffs in the league? I'm genuinely interested there as I think the non salary capped part of the business is interesting. Always good to have the facts when they're available.

Steelers Depot reported on it for sure, at one point, but I'm not going and digging for the exact article since this isn't my argument.

No worries. You're the one who said, "Pittsburgh absolutely has had one of the smallest (if not the smallest) coaching/support staffs in the league for at least a couple/few years now." and I was interested in that.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Yes, he was fortunate to play on an amazing team with many Hall of Fame teammates but he wasn't just some care taker, he was most certainly a leader.

For sure. And one of the absolute best deep ball passers, like, ever. For that offense back then he was pretty much "perfect." Swann/Stall aren't Swann/Stall with Terry effing Hanratty chucking them the pill for ten years.

 

[brewer]

What is the source or link that they have one of the smallest (if not the smallest) coaching/support staffs in the league? I'm genuinely interested there as I think the non salary capped part of the business is interesting. Always good to have the facts when they're available.

Steelers Depot reported on it for sure, at one point, but I'm not going and digging for the exact article since this isn't my argument.

No worries. You're the one who said, "Pittsburgh absolutely has had one of the smallest (if not the smallest) coaching/support staffs in the league for at least a couple/few years now." and I was interested in that.

Study: The Steelers Have The NFL's Smallest Coaching Staff (2024 Edition)

For the past two offseasons, I’ve taken a look at the size of each NFL coaching staff. To see where the Pittsburgh Steelers stack up, identify league trends, and figure out if any of these matters. For years, Pittsburgh has been criticized for not employing many coaches. They’ve preferred to...

steelersdepot.com

 

[Joe Bryant]

I've always felt similar and would maybe only tack on if the Steelers DO have a certain overarching "identity" they've liked to stick too under the Rooneys; it's around having a physically tough, blue collar defense.

Agreed. Lots of team have an "identity" or "know who they are". Pittsburgh seems to be that tough mindset with often a defensive edge. Makes sense as it reflects their town. I think of Chicago in sort of the same way. But obviously, offense is crucial as well. Today's Bears seem a far cry in "identity" from a defensive focused team. And certainly the Steelers have had their share of offensive stars.

Overall, I don't think I'd lay much blame for failing to advance in the playoffs on Identity.

 

[Joe Bryant]

What is the source or link that they have one of the smallest (if not the smallest) coaching/support staffs in the league? I'm genuinely interested there as I think the non salary capped part of the business is interesting. Always good to have the facts when they're available.

Steelers Depot reported on it for sure, at one point, but I'm not going and digging for the exact article since this isn't my argument.

No worries. You're the one who said, "Pittsburgh absolutely has had one of the smallest (if not the smallest) coaching/support staffs in the league for at least a couple/few years now." and I was interested in that.

Study: The Steelers Have The NFL's Smallest Coaching Staff (2024 Edition)

For the past two offseasons, I’ve taken a look at the size of each NFL coaching staff. To see where the Pittsburgh Steelers stack up, identify league trends, and figure out if any of these matters. For years, Pittsburgh has been criticized for not employing many coaches. They’ve preferred to...

steelersdepot.com

Great. Thank you. Exactly what I was looking for.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Nevermind.

 

[Joe Bryant]

What is the source or link that they have one of the smallest (if not the smallest) coaching/support staffs in the league? I'm genuinely interested there as I think the non salary capped part of the business is interesting. Always good to have the facts when they're available.

Steelers Depot reported on it for sure, at one point, but I'm not going and digging for the exact article since this isn't my argument.

No worries. You're the one who said, "Pittsburgh absolutely has had one of the smallest (if not the smallest) coaching/support staffs in the league for at least a couple/few years now." and I was interested in that.

Study: The Steelers Have The NFL's Smallest Coaching Staff (2024 Edition)

For the past two offseasons, I’ve taken a look at the size of each NFL coaching staff. To see where the Pittsburgh Steelers stack up, identify league trends, and figure out if any of these matters. For years, Pittsburgh has been criticized for not employing many coaches. They’ve preferred to...

steelersdepot.com

That's interesting.

Interesting too see the Lions and Bills in the bottom 6 as well.

As I said above though, I'm mostly interested in the payroll there, not the number of people. The assertion was the Rooneys were just comfortable and have a lower payroll. That caught my attention as I knew Tomlin was one of the highest-paid coaches in the league. If they're indeed coasting and ok with being cheap, they're not doing it with the head coach.

 

[pinkstapler]

There are already too many Steelers-centric threads, so rather than start another one, I'll ask Steelers fans here. The last time the Steelers won a playoff game was 2016.

The reason for that is ______________. Fill in the blank. I am looking for the primary, biggest reason, not a 46-page report with 12 chapters and a full breakdown of the 132 different potential reasons. Pick the top reason only. For examples, "injuries," "Tomlin," "offensive scheme," "quarterback production," "poor drafting," "game planning," "lack of in-game adjustments," etc. Feel free to expound on your answer, but stick to that one explanation as the primary cause.

Comfort. The Rooneys are comfortable with the situation. Two things. They have decades of history rolling with whomever as starting QB. (Bradshaw and Big Ben are the exception).
The second thing? No incentive to change this. They are raking in money with ticket sales (home and away), have a small coaching, scouting and front office staff.(lower payroll)

Take a few moments and think about this before unloading a response.

You want to think about the Cowher years of playoff games with average?/below average? QB's and that this IS how they operate.

The difference is Cowher started with crap and ended with a Super bowl and Tomlin started with a Super Bowl.

This situation isn't new to the Rooneys.

Solid overall take. I've always felt similar and would maybe only tack on if the Steelers DO have a certain overarching "identity" they've liked to stick too under the Rooneys; it's around having a physically tough, blue collar defense.

And if Steelers fans are being completely honest with themselves, Bradshaw may be an exception to our historical lack of good QBs; but just by a little bit. He was never really considered elite, even when he was winning the SBs. You'd ask guys on the street who their favorite player was and Bradshaw was rarely the first answer you get. For many, he probably wasn't even top three. Obviously the SBs made him an NFL star; but I think much of the recognition he has today is at the level it is for the things he did AFTER football.

I guess to be fair to the Steelers, but also kind of proving your point, they basically never draft a QB high and the two times they did they luckily hit with Bradshaw and Ben. Adding more to this historical trend of not prioritizing the position, apparently Cowher and Colbert didn't even want MACtion Ben at 11 and were going to pass for OL; it was Dan who hit the "I'm the owner" button and made them take him out of fear of facing another Marino mistake.

I think since this is a fantasy football board, we get caught up in the statistics more often than not. However, a QBs main job is to win games, Bradshaw was 107-51 for his career and 14-5 in the playoffs with 4 Super Bowl wins which puts him tied at #2 on that list with Joe Montana. Yes, he was fortunate to play on an amazing team with many Hall of Fame teammates but he wasn't just some care taker, he was most certainly a leader.

Maybe our definitions of elite are different, but if you hold the second most championships of all QBs ever, I think you should probably be considered elite at your job.

Yup, think our definitions of elite are just different then. Which is fine. If you said he was an elite leader, or an elite teammate, maybe I'd come to agree with that; but in my mind an elite QB is well rounded and far above average in the majority of facets you can look at when analyzing the position as a whole. I think Bradshaw would be lucky to tick maybe 50% of those boxes; where Brady, Montana, Manning, etc. tick 80%+.

I do think a QBs main job is to win games. I also think QBs can do that and not be elite. Normalizing it to regular joes, two people can work the same job doing the same thing and both meet expectations and be considered good employees; but come end of year time for raises/bonuses/accolades if one of them goes far above and beyond their primary goal of their equivalent of "just winning games" they are the ones getting the biggest raise/bonus and winning awards. IMO, those awards shouldn't be going to the guy who just shows up and does his job. Not being recognized for excellence isn't a negative thing, though it feels like it's been a growing trend in society the past 20 years to look at it like that, a la "everyone gets a trophy" culture.

Again, if we want to narrow the focus of elite down to "elite SB winners", maybe Bradshaw would make the cut for me; as you said, he won 4. But SB wins is just one facet of what I'd consider when deciding if a QB was elite. I emphasize/prioritize facets they have much, much more control over than just SB wins in general anyway.

And while I wouldn't want to draw too much correlation between HoF and elite, as they aren't always synonymous to me either; I think it says something that just about anytime a discussion comes up about whether a guy deserves to get into the HoF or not, Terry is almost always the first name people bring up of a guy who got in that DIDN'T deserve it. If I were to google "top ten guys who didn't deserve the HoF" and look at 50 lists, I'd be surprised if he wasn't on all 50 of them. Doesn't make my opinion right and yours wrong, but just saying I don't think my "Bradshaw wasn't elite" is an outlandish take either. Tends to be the consensus take in my experience.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Poor Mason Rudolph. Rodney Dangerfield of QBs.

I do not feel badly for Mason. Not even a little bit. He dated Eugenie Bouchard for over 2 years.

And got paid ludicrous amounts of $ to mostly hold a clipboard.

 

[nightmare]

I'll do a deeper dive into this but the NFL is divided into the teams that are owned by Billionaires -Seahawks, Browns, Patriots, Etc.
versus owners where the team is their only big asset. Raiders, Steelers, Cardinals, Colts. . .

Topic aside, (and I haven’t really looked at the others) but Art Rooney II has a net worth of 1.2B

so he’s also a billionaire.

Here’s the list.

NFL’s Richest Owners Ranked From 32 to 1 (Updated 2025)

Who are the richest owners in the NFL, and how did they amass their fortunes? How do they stack up against each other in terms of net worth?

www.profootballnetwork.com

All NFL families are worth Billions. The difference is some owners have a second Billion dollar asset where they could purchase a house, airplane or a
small island with. Mark Davis before the Las Vegas move was worth $800 million. It's now $2.6 Billion. Flip side David Tepper (Panthers) $21.3B
Stan Kroenke(Rams) $18B, and Shahid Khan(Jags) $13.2B, Khan made his money by being the sole supplier of bumpers to Toyota(USA).

Multi Billions and single Billion. The single Billions prime source of income is the team. I emphasize this as the Families that inherited teams seem to stay
in the single digit $B and just roll along.

 

[brewer]

What is the source or link that they have one of the smallest (if not the smallest) coaching/support staffs in the league? I'm genuinely interested there as I think the non salary capped part of the business is interesting. Always good to have the facts when they're available.

Steelers Depot reported on it for sure, at one point, but I'm not going and digging for the exact article since this isn't my argument.

No worries. You're the one who said, "Pittsburgh absolutely has had one of the smallest (if not the smallest) coaching/support staffs in the league for at least a couple/few years now." and I was interested in that.

Study: The Steelers Have The NFL's Smallest Coaching Staff (2024 Edition)

For the past two offseasons, I’ve taken a look at the size of each NFL coaching staff. To see where the Pittsburgh Steelers stack up, identify league trends, and figure out if any of these matters. For years, Pittsburgh has been criticized for not employing many coaches. They’ve preferred to...

steelersdepot.com

That's interesting.

Interesting too see the Lions and Bills in the bottom 6 as well.

As I said above though, I'm mostly interested in the payroll there, not the number of people. The assertion was the Rooneys were just comfortable and have a lower payroll. That caught my attention as I knew Tomlin was one of the highest-paid coaches in the league. If they're indeed coasting and ok with being cheap, they're not doing it with the head coach.

The above wasn't my assertion, but one of the complaints that is often heard in Pittsburgh is that Mike is loyal to a fault and doesn't really want other strong voices in the room. The Randy Fichtner and Matt Canada OC years are a good example of this. I think it is fair to say that neither of those gentlemen would have ever been given an OC job with any other NFL team. Tomlin's relationship with Fichtner goes back to Arkansas State in 1997. Canada recruited Mike's son Dino to Maryland.

Mike is absolutely a leader of men, but sometimes I think his loyalty and personal feelings can get in the way of making the best business decision.

And with that, I will now quit talking about Steelers history in an Aaron Rodgers thread. Sorry for the deviation all.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I'll do a deeper dive into this but the NFL is divided into the teams that are owned by Billionaires -Seahawks, Browns, Patriots, Etc.
versus owners where the team is their only big asset. Raiders, Steelers, Cardinals, Colts. . .

Topic aside, (and I haven’t really looked at the others) but Art Rooney II has a net worth of 1.2B

so he’s also a billionaire.

Here’s the list.

NFL’s Richest Owners Ranked From 32 to 1 (Updated 2025)

Who are the richest owners in the NFL, and how did they amass their fortunes? How do they stack up against each other in terms of net worth?

www.profootballnetwork.com

All NFL families are worth Billions. The difference is some owners have a second Billion dollar asset where they could purchase a house, airplane or a
small island with. Mark Davis before the Las Vegas move was worth $800 million. It's now $2.6 Billion. Flip side David Tepper (Panthers) $21.3B
Stan Kroenke(Rams) $18B, and Shahid Khan(Jags) $13.2B, Khan made his money by being the sole supplier of bumpers to Toyota(USA).

Multi Billions and single Billion. The single Billions prime source of income is the team. I emphasize this as the Families that inherited teams seem to stay
in the single digit $B and just roll along.

That’s all well and good but you said “the NFL is divided into teams that are owned by billionaires vs owners where the team is their only big asset”.

The reality is that there’s no division there for the Steelers. Rooney II is a billionaire. The Venn diagram for him & the “billionaire owners” is a single circle.

Also the Steelers franchise is not their only asset:

Florida-based Rooney Holdings, Inc. is a diversified privately-held international investment company with operating interests in real estate development, agriculture, electronics, energy and, through its subsidiary, Manhattan Construction Group, the building, civil, pipeline and specialty construction segments.

It’s not a big deal, just striving for accuracy. He might be worth less than other owners, but he’s still a billionaire.

I’m not really sure why that would be a distinction. Anyway, not really relevant to the topic at hand.

 

[nightmare]

i've derailed the Aaron Rodgers thread.

I think the 2025 starter doesn't matter UNLESS Mason Rudolph somehow proves he is an above average starter and
the Steelers are not in a position to draft his replacement in 2026.

Aaron Rodgers is looking for one last good season. No "proof" just opinion.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

UNLESS Mason Rudolph somehow proves he is an above average starter

I think there’s enough data on Mason Rudolph to conclude that he is not an above average starter.

To be fair, we haven’t seen him start in *this* offense with *this* OC.

But it’s not like you’d be plugging him into the Chiefs with Andy Reid, so my expectation is that he would remain a below average starter. Perhaps he would be a below average starter for the Chiefs as well, come to think of it.

Aaron Rodgers is looking for one last good season

On this we’re in total agreement.

Especially how it’s phrased to be all about Aaron Rodgers, and not necessarily about the Steelers. Not sure if that was intentional, but it seems spot on regardless.