Bronco Billy
Footballguy
You may be way off base here. I’d guess his teammates might have similar thoughts about the Mayfield lovefest. I could be wrong though.
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QB Baker Mayfield, TB (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter OU#1
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You may be way off base here. I’d guess his teammates might have similar thoughts about the Mayfield lovefest. I could be wrong though.
I'm sure they love him as their quarterback, but I highly doubt they appreciate hearing how Baker turned around the franchise. That is an immensely talented group of players. I think they may have had a little to do with it.
-OZ-
Footballguy
That was essentially my point a while back when someone referred to their 35 game losing streak and how Baker deserves the MVP for winning 6 games.
The browns have one of the more talented rosters. Baker is certainly part of that.
Like I said, the media seems to grade Mayfield differently than other QBs in the league. As good as Troy Aikman was, everyone always acknowledged that they became great because of the talent they accumulated. I guess he's a good story. Provides excellent soundbites and fans (customers) love the stares and crotch grabs. But as I said the other day, the Browns haven't played a meaningful game in many years. Last week's Ravens game was the closest thing Mayfield ever had to a game with pressure. And that 'pressure' was to get above .500 and make a difference in the conference winner. Not actual pressure. And had Wentz or Prescott or Goff thrown an interception on the possible game winning possession, let alone making it their third interception of the game, there would have been a discussion about rising to the occasion or coming through when the chips are down. But he gets a pass. I'm not sure what that's about, but it's a wonderful thing for him.
Yup. My thoughts exactly. They were improving with Darnold and Allen too. (Maybe not Rosen). At some point, with a bunch of talented draft picks, improvement is inevitable. Especially improvement from zero and one win.
Peak
Footballguy
You keep saying this, so I had to go look things up....Let's clarify the "boatload of top picks" on the team. I've gone back to 2014 for 1st and 2nd Rnd Picks for CLE. You are correct in that they had a lot of top round selections - no doubt. But how has that worked out for them?
Year Selection Player POS Status
2014 8 (1) Justin Gilbert CB Out of the Lg
22 (1) Johnny Manziel QB Out of the Lg
35 (2) Joel Bitonio OL/G Starting LG
2015 12 (1) Danny Shelton DT Inactive (Pats)
19 (1) Cameron Erving C Starting OL (KC)
51 (2) Nate Orchard DE Out of the Lg
2016 15 (1) Corey Coleman WR Out of the Lg
32 (2) Emanuel Ogbah DE Rotational DL
2017 1 (1) Myles Garrett * DE Starting EDGE
25 (1) Jabrill Peppers S Starting SS
29 (1) David Njoku TE Starting TE
52 (2) Deshone Kizer QB Backup (GB)
2018 1 (1) Baker Mayfield * QB Starting QB
4 (1) Denzel Ward CB Starting DB
33 (2) Austin Corbett OL/C Backup OL
35 (2) Nich Chubb RB Starting RB
16 picks in the first two rounds in 5 years. Surely they must have hit on those!! Four of those picks are out of the league completely. One has been a healthy scratch for the last half of the season and will likely be cut by NE. One is a Backup in GB. Only the picks made by Dorsey (2017 and 2018) are still in play with the Browns - where 6 of the 7 are bonafide contributors. Of those that have contributed, two (aside from Mayfield) are on offense.
IMO, all of the defensive players would certainly say that Mayfield has impacted their play for the better. He has kept the offense on the field longer, allowing them to breathe/rest. Mayfield has put points on the board, thus giving the defense the opportunity to go play prevent and just worry about stopping a big play vs trying to make a big play every time they're on the field.
IMO, all of the offensive players would certainly say that Mayfield has impacted their play for the better. They know what it was like playing with Tyrod under center. Chubb wouldn't have gotten the running lanes had teams not worried about Mayfield's downfield vision and passing accuracy. Njoku was on the verge of being labelled a bust until Mayfield started getting him the ball. Had Tyrod stayed under center, or worse yet - Kizer stayed in CLE (gasp!) - neither would have had the opportunity to produce as they have this year.
So yes, Virginia, I do believe that Mayfield has transformed this club for the better. And yes, I believe his teammates would rally behind and support that sentiment.
That even furthers my point. I had forgotten about Peppers and Njoku. 5 picks on the 4-year list that are Pro Bowl or pro bowl alternates this year. Plus the signing of Landry. That's a ton of young talent.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
As I said, I think you’re way off base here. But maybe you can find something to support your now repeated position. I’d be interested in reading it if you can manage it.
Peak
Footballguy
Just stating to reply, not necessarily at you. (I think I have a quota on how many times I can quote Junior on a daily basis
)Keep in mind that the roster from 2017 was purged heading into 2018. Without going through the actual numbers, I believe it was over a 50% roster churn. So there hasn't been a truly stable roster of talented individuals to date. Even the starters this season were largely accumulated in 2018 (Baker, Chubb, Landry, Fells, Calloway, Robinson, Hubbard, Randall, Ward, Carrie, Joseph). That alone is nearly 50% of the starters that were brought in either in the 2018 Draft or by 2018 FA. This is a young, new roster just learning how to play together, so Baker coming in made a big impact as their first exposure was of Tyrod and an inept offense.
Peak
Footballguy
OROY Odds and Notes
Odds to Win 2018 NFL OROY at Bovada (entering Week 17)
Baker Mayfield QB CLE -130
Saquon Barkley RB NYG -110
Odds to Win 2018 NFL OROY at Bovada (entering Week 17)
Baker Mayfield QB CLE -130
Saquon Barkley RB NYG -110
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-OZ-
Footballguy
Agreed, they were getting together. In their first game they tied the Steelers, in their 2nd they lost by 3 to the best team in the NFC.Just stating to reply, not necessarily at you. (I think I have a quota on how many times I can quote Junior on a daily basis
Keep in mind that the roster from 2017 was purged heading into 2018. Without going through the actual numbers, I believe it was over a 50% roster churn. So there hasn't been a truly stable roster of talented individuals to date. Even the starters this season were largely accumulated in 2018 (Baker, Chubb, Landry, Fells, Calloway, Robinson, Hubbard, Randall, Ward, Carrie, Joseph). That alone is nearly 50% of the starters that were brought in either in the 2018 Draft or by 2018 FA. This is a young, new roster just learning how to play together, so Baker coming in made a big impact as their first exposure was of Tyrod and an inept offense.
Then they had a really bad day against the Jets until Baker came in.
You're saying what I'm saying. Lots of added talent. They were improving regardless of the quarterback. It was evident the first few games with Tyrod under center (with the exception being the Jets game). Mayfield was an upgrade over Tyrod and that was another added piece. This is a solid team.Just stating to reply, not necessarily at you. (I think I have a quota on how many times I can quote Junior on a daily basis
Keep in mind that the roster from 2017 was purged heading into 2018. Without going through the actual numbers, I believe it was over a 50% roster churn. So there hasn't been a truly stable roster of talented individuals to date. Even the starters this season were largely accumulated in 2018 (Baker, Chubb, Landry, Fells, Calloway, Robinson, Hubbard, Randall, Ward, Carrie, Joseph). That alone is nearly 50% of the starters that were brought in either in the 2018 Draft or by 2018 FA. This is a young, new roster just learning how to play together, so Baker coming in made a big impact as their first exposure was of Tyrod and an inept offense.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Offensive rookie of the year: Baker Mayfield
Luke Jones @BaltimoreLuke
Terrell Suggs: "I’m usually not impressed with rookies, but you saw two rookies out there today that showed that this is their league. It was impressive. Everybody knows the history of football in Cleveland & that guy is going to be something for years to come." #Ravens #Browns
7:41 PM - 30 Dec 2018
---------------------------------
Luke Jones @BaltimoreLuke
Terrell Suggs: "I’m usually not impressed with rookies, but you saw two rookies out there today that showed that this is their league. It was impressive. Everybody knows the history of football in Cleveland & that guy is going to be something for years to come." #Ravens #Browns
7:41 PM - 30 Dec 2018
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With Tyrod Taylor under center, they tied Pittsburgh, only lost to the Saints by 3, and then lost to the Jets by 4. Where is the revisionist history there? I'm sure you'd love to paint the picture that they were dreadful with Tyrod under center. But there's no way in hell they would have played Pittsburgh, New Orleans, and the Jets last year and only been -7 in point differential. It's you who wants to change history. I can just hear you talking to your grandkids. "Back in 2018, our boys were getting beat up. Lost the first three games by 30 or more points and the opposing players were running off with our players' wives. Then #6 came in for game four and we started crushing skulls" Sorry. They were vastly improved to start the season. Took a step back when Mayfield took the job (lost 5 of his first 6 starts), then fired the coach and the young talent started to gel. They played 5 games against playoff teams and were 1-4. To their credit, 2 of their losses to playoff teams were by 3 pts or less. One with Taylor and one with Mayfield.
MAC_32
Footballguy
We were like the 3rd team in history to create 6 turnovers in a game and not win. And one of those others was us. So your giving credit to Taylor for tying Pittsburgh resulted in me stopping reading there.
You haven't watched and are commenting as if you know this team inside and out.
You haven't watched and are commenting as if you know this team inside and out.
I remember the game well. Horrendous conditions. If I'm not mistaken, Taylor threw for a TD and ran for another. I believe he had 75 yards rushing or so. Not a horrible game considering the conditions. And when was the last time they played Pittsburgh and didn't lose? At any rate, my point is (and has been) the Browns were an improved team this season. I know that goes against the story you want to tell your grandkids, but everyone knew they were much improved.
The team definitely has good players as evidence of the early season close games. But let's not get away from the fact that Tierod sucks as a QB and it was plainly evident what a loser he is, once Baker got in there. He had no contribution other than lots of 3 & outs.
Those games that they kept close, Baker wins. Tierod: 2 TD passes in 3 games. Baker has a disappointing game when he only throws 2 TD passes.
Those games that they kept close, Baker wins. Tierod: 2 TD passes in 3 games. Baker has a disappointing game when he only throws 2 TD passes.
Same as he's always been. Won't throw it unless a guy is wide open. That is how you get nice looking TD-INT stats. See Rodgers this year. You don't win but you get a payday by a clueless GM. He can't throw guys open like Baker can. He can't make any good throws.
I saw the Pittsburgh tie and the Ravens loss. And saw highlights of him staring at Hue Jackson and pretending he was pulling his d*** out. Why? I know his stats and I know his win/loss results. And I saw his performance in the closest think he's ever played to a big game in the NFL. Damn. I've heard people say it's all about stats and I've heard others say that wins and losses is all that matters. Are you officially introducing the 'you can't go by stats OR wins and losses' argument?
MAC_32
Footballguy
I'll be sure to tell my grandkids that Mayfield led the miraculous comeback against the Jets when the team was sunk rather than Taylor being responsible for losing by 4 like you hilariously wrote.
Oops. They won that one. So 6 of their 7 wins were against non-playoff teams. I stand corrected.
Peak
Footballguy
Whatcha gonna do @JuniorNB when BakerMania runs wild on youuuuuuu brotha?!?!?!?!
Cleveland Browns QB Baker Mayfield named PFF's Offensive Rookie of the Year
Cleveland Browns QB Baker Mayfield named PFF's Offensive Rookie of the Year
Someone go tell PFF that this wasn't a "historic performance", but rather a mundane, easily predictable run against non-playoff teams. At least that's what the stats and boxscores tell us after we don't watch the games.
He played well. I've said that all along. I just have to keep you fellas down to earth a little. He's going to get better. Cut his interceptions down and end up being in the elite QBs some day. I listed him as one of the 4 QBs I'd want to start a franchise with. I just don't think he's at the level that Browns fans do. Even the best stat page you could cherry pick only had him at #9 in the league. He's got a ways to go and we still haven't seen him in a meaningful game. Once a quarterback is determined to be good, they start judging him on his performance when the pressure is on. Hopefully, they can make a playoff run and we'll see that side of him. Lots to learn about the kid. But you have every reason to be excited.Whatcha gonna do @JuniorNB when BakerMania runs wild on youuuuuuu brotha?!?!?!?!
Cleveland Browns QB Baker Mayfield named PFF's Offensive Rookie of the Year
Someone go tell PFF that this wasn't a "historic performance", but rather a mundane, easily predictable run against non-playoff teams. At least that's what the stats and boxscores tell us after we don't watch the games.
Peak
Footballguy
Another week of the NFL, another award for Baker to put on his mantle.....
Baker Mayfield has won the NFL Pepsi Rookie of the Week.....again!!!
Sources say that this award will be rebranded next year as the 'NFL Mayfield of the Week Award'
Just in case you lost count ... A #Browns rookie won 11 out of 17 weeks! Wk 1: @denzelward Wk 3: @bakermayfield Wk 4: @NickChubb21 Wk 5: Ward Wk 7: Mayfield Wk 9: Mayfield Wk 10: Chubb Wk 12: Mayfield Wk 14: Mayfield Wk 16: Mayfield Wk 17: Mayfield
Hey @JuniorNB.....remind me again how many times has Barkley won this award with his record setting play this year?
Baker Mayfield has won the NFL Pepsi Rookie of the Week.....again!!!
Sources say that this award will be rebranded next year as the 'NFL Mayfield of the Week Award'
Just in case you lost count ... A #Browns rookie won 11 out of 17 weeks! Wk 1: @denzelward Wk 3: @bakermayfield Wk 4: @NickChubb21 Wk 5: Ward Wk 7: Mayfield Wk 9: Mayfield Wk 10: Chubb Wk 12: Mayfield Wk 14: Mayfield Wk 16: Mayfield Wk 17: Mayfield
Hey @JuniorNB.....remind me again how many times has Barkley won this award with his record setting play this year?
MAC_32
Footballguy
Listening to people that watch games that I miss is how I learn about other games and teams. Not enough time in my days to absorb it all first hand. And there are certainly some that I just dont pay attention to at all.
Box scores really dont say anything meaningful. It's simple minded. At best it is a starting point. Where from there depends on what actually happened in the game. And what's happened in the eight games post Happy and Slappy getting canned has been vastly different than the eight prior which mostly looked like 2016 and 2017.
beer 30
Footballguy
And I'd argue that all of those players benefited and got better because of Mayfield:
- The Defense - prior to Mayfield coming in the defense was continually gassed late in the third and dead in the fourth quarters. Why? Because of an inept play calling scheme in place to discredit the HC and promote the OC. Remove Tyrod Taylor and suddenly the offense is sustaining drives, allowing the defense to catch their breath, study what the opposing team is doing on the field and actually getting after people at the end of games. I'd be curious to see what Kitchens would do with the Tyrod Taylor offense but I don't think it would appreciably better. There is a stark difference between Mayfield & Taylor.
- Nick Chubb - prior to Mayfield entering the game, teams loaded up the box and dared the Browns to throw it. Because we had a QB that either couldn't get the ball to his WR's or wouldn't our RB's fought for every yard they gained...hard. Mayfield enters the scene and the first three passes were bullets, right on the money and suddenly the defense is playing back on their heels. As he progressed, defenses learned that they couldn't stack the box any longer because the kid has a rifle thereby opening up running lanes we didn't see int he first 4 games. This allowed Chubb to get free in the secondary and really shine to the tune of 996 in really about 13 games.
- The OL - Jeez it was night and day for these guys. Tyrod Taylor held onto the ball...a lot...and forever. No OL can hold their blocks repeatedly for 4-5 seconds every time the QB drops back so they looked awful. They couldn't open holes for the RB because there were 8 men in the box and QB wouldn't throw the ball unless the WR was 10 yards open so he was taking unnecessary sacks. Enter Mayfield who has one of the quickest releases in the league and throws a laser. All of a sudden the OL has to hold their blocks for 2-3 seconds so the number of sacks drops dramatically. Holes open up because defenses have to respect the pass now and can't stack the box. And when the protection does break down, Mayfield dances around in the pocket as well as a 10 year vet.
No clue buddy. I'm just trying to figure out how a guy only completes about 50% of his passes, throws 3 picks, and ends a potential game winning drive by throwing it to a Ravens linebacker and that is considered the rookie player of the week. Are you sure that's not from The Onion?
Peak
Footballguy
Oh that's an easy answer, and one you can find in the stat sheets and box scores, in case you missed the game. There were 3 QBs this year that put up 300+ yds on the vaunted #1 Defense of the Ravens. Here's a hint, we're talking about the only guy to do it twice this year.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Average quarterbacks go as their team goes. Great ones elevate the play of those around them.
So that's a stat that matters. I can't keep track.Oh that's an easy answer, and one you can find in the stat sheets and box scores, in case you missed the game. There were 3 QBs this year that put up 300+ yds on the vaunted #1 Defense of the Ravens. Here's a hint, we're talking about the only guy to do it twice this year.
Peak
Footballguy
Ohhhhh...on the topic of cherry picking...how you like these cherries?JuniorNB said:
Baker's rookie year against the rookie year of other QBs. This list includes Rodgers, Eli, and Rivers who had the luxury of not starting their rookie season. Interesting how Baker lines up against these other guys. He's the only one on the list to average 2 TDs per game. If I look only at Seasons started as a Rookie (more cherry-picking!), guess who would top the list with most TDs and Yds/Game? All this accomplished in only 13.5 games? What?!?! Crazy, right?
Code:
Year Player Yd/Game YPA TD INT % QB Rating Games TD/Game INT/Game Start as a Rookie?
2008 Rodgers* 252.38 7.50 28 13 63.60 93.80 16 1.75 0.81 No
2018 Mayfield 275.93 7.70 27 14 63.80 93.70 13.5 2.00 1.04 Yes
2012 Wilson 194.90 7.90 26 10 64.10 100.00 16 1.63 0.63 Yes
1998 P. Manning 233.70 6.50 26 28 56.70 71.20 16 1.63 1.75 Yes
2005 E. Manning* 235.13 6.80 24 17 52.80 55.40 16 1.50 1.06 No
2016 Prescott 229.20 8.00 23 4 67.80 104.90 16 1.44 0.25 Yes
2012 Luck 273.40 7.00 23 18 54.10 76.50 16 1.44 1.13 Yes
2015 Winston 252.60 7.60 22 15 58.30 84.20 16 1.38 0.94 Yes
2006 Rivers* 211.80 7.40 22 9 61.70 92.00 16 1.38 0.56 No
2011 Newton 253.30 6.60 21 17 60.00 84.50 16 1.31 1.06 Yes
2014 Carr 204.40 5.50 21 12 58.10 76.60 16 1.31 0.75 Yes
2012 Griffin 213.30 8.10 20 5 65.60 102.40 15 1.33 0.33 Yes
1983 Marino 184.17 7.47 20 6 58.40 96.00 12 1.67 0.50 Yes
2001 Brady 189.53 6.90 18 12 63.90 86.50 15 1.20 0.80 Yes
2004 Roethlisberger 187.21 8.90 17 11 66.40 98.10 14 1.21 0.79 Yes-OZ-
Footballguy
If anyone is giving credit to Tyrod, that's a bad call.MAC_32 said:
I will give credit to the defense, o line and a little to Hyde.
The point isn't that Tyrod is anywhere near as good as Baker. I wanted ty to be decent, thought he could be, but he's simply not (other than a decent scrambling ability necessitated by his lack of will to pass).amnesiac said:
All I've been saying is the other 21 players are actually NFL caliber. They have the talent to be pretty darn good. Baker is definitely part of that but it's not like he took the 2017 team and made them good.
Peak's point (isn't that near Denver?) Is spot on, there was a lot of turnover. Mostly because they actually brought in good players. Or at least those with potential.
Can't we just agree that the Browns are going in the right direction and Baker is part of that?
MAC_32
Footballguy
I can't. Baker is leading that. This October went like every other October. Horribly. Just when the season was about to go south like it always does with this team Dorsey threw a hail mary to try and salvage what he could. And Baker said buckle up let's go.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Okay.
You seem to think they're a version of Peyton Manning's colts. I think they're a lesser version of Carson Wentz's eagles. Maybe we'll see.
Just imagine if they ever win more than seven games. He might be the only active second-year player in the Pro football Hall of Fame. LOL
MAC_32
Footballguy
I know it was the stink of 20 losing seasons and it would take a unique character to reverse course. He was it. There was talent on this team in 17, but it succumbed to the loser disease that this team always gets sometime during the season. It was coming again in 18. Until it wasnt.
-OZ-
Footballguy
I think I get your point, and I did watch parts of the first two games and most of the Jets game. The Jets game was showing your prediction (is that the right word?) Of what would come without change, but the first two games did not.
I don't know, maybe you're right and you know more about the browns. But I see a team on the rise not counting the QB. He helped for sure.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Really look into those three games before the firing. We got choke slammed against San Diego. Then went to Tampa and were in the process of embarrassing ourselves until the bucs turned it over so much they kept us in it and almost gave it away. But this team being the browns couldn't close the deal. Then proceeded to get embarrassed in Pittsburgh, which was unfortunately necessary to remove the cancer holding this team back.
The honeymoon was over and our toxic coaching staff was ruining the season. Baker won the Jets game by himself, but his play slowly trended down thereafter and the team followed suit. Because they were all being put into positions not to be successful. That all changed that one magical Monday morning. But to flip the switch like they did? You need something special to take that lead.
I have been too flip im here the last few days but the attitude of non browns fans got to me. One in particular. You have to look at the whole picture to understand what happened here and you really cant appreciate it unless youve experience it. And by it i dont mean just 2018.
-OZ-
Footballguy
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Peak
Footballguy
So Baker is one of 5 finalist for the NFL Pepsi ROY - along with Chubb, Barkley, Darius Leonard, and Phillip Lindsay. Pretty feel good story seeing two Browns rookies on that list in Baker and Chubb. All of them have merit to take home the award, but seeing as how this is a Baker thread - I'll put my vote behind him to win it! Baker walked away for 7 of the ROW honors this year, more than triples the next closest person, who also happens to be nominated (Chubb). Barkley was left out in the cold with one Weekly award. Could this be another award bestowed upon the young rookie QB in CLE?
They could have been the unlucky team to draft Winston and continue to fight the mistake while all the other picks pan out. Mayfield has taken them to levels that others may not have.
They made great picks that never played with a great QB. You can make all the great picks ya want but if you miss on QB, you waste them all.
