QB Caleb Williams, CHI (3 Viewers)

[Chaka]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

They didn't have to, they capitulated to Caleb's immaturity.

Maybe they had their "hands tied behind their back" but, that's also on them. If they were worried more about success and less about whether or not they might keep their jobs if they they bruise the fragile ego of their hopefully star QB, they might still be coaching in Chicago.

But now it's like, here we have a lot of good information, insightful stuff about Caleb Williams character, in the Caleb Williams thread, and we're still talking about Waldren and Euberfluss were terrible.

We get it, they sucked. Can we talk about Caleb Williams part the Bears last year, just for a minute? Since we are in the Caleb Williams thread.

Personally, I have been talking about it in great detail, including in the post you quoted. Seems a lot of people are.

Caleb has all the physical tools in the world and, he's not stupid by any means but, he's not Peyton Manning. Who's drive on the mental aspect of the game was notorious. Caleb has mostly relied on his physical tools and hasn't had to learn how to be a professional. He's clearly immature and struggling with the day-in day-out grind of being a QB in the NFL.

But, as with any leader, subordinate situation it's on the leader to turn the subordinate into a professional. Not the other way around. If you're a leader and care at all about success you don't just say "Figure it out." and walk away, which apparently happened under Eberflus/Waldron. Do parents let their children set the conditions for the house?

Caleb is very similar to Trevor Lawrence who was also a "generational talent" anointed as a true freshman as the next great thing and ended up in a bad situation and underwhelmed greatly. But people were very quick to blame Urban Meyer for everything that went wrong with Trevor. Maybe he's more likeable even if I personally find his hair to be an affront to all that is decent and good in this world. Caleb had a much better rookie season than Trevor, btw.

I am not sure how much more people want to say negative about Caleb but, I think most of us are on the same, very realistic page about who Caleb is and if he can succeed at the NFL level.

 

[Mitchie]

Keenan Allen still looks pretty good. He had some big games with Caleb but also some real clunkers as someone who is basically 7-11 (always open.) Not sure if the coaching staff or Caleb ruined him but there is some combination of the two probably.

I dunno sounds kind of on par with the wr2/wr3 type player.

 

[cdclopper]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

They didn't have to, they capitulated to Caleb's immaturity.

Maybe they had their "hands tied behind their back" but, that's also on them. If they were worried more about success and less about whether or not they might keep their jobs if they they bruise the fragile ego of their hopefully star QB, they might still be coaching in Chicago.

But now it's like, here we have a lot of good information, insightful stuff about Caleb Williams character, in the Caleb Williams thread, and we're still talking about Waldren and Euberfluss were terrible.

We get it, they sucked. Can we talk about Caleb Williams part the Bears last year, just for a minute? Since we are in the Caleb Williams thread.

Personally, I have been talking about it in great detail, including in the post you quoted. Seems a lot of people are.

Caleb has all the physical tools in the world and, he's not stupid by any means but, he's not Peyton Manning. Who's drive on the mental aspect of the game was notorious. Caleb has mostly relied on his physical tools and hasn't had to learn how to be a professional. He's clearly immature and struggling with the day-in day-out grind of being a QB in the NFL.

But, as with any leader, subordinate situation it's on the leader to turn the subordinate into a professional. Not the other way around. If you're a leader and care at all about success you don't just say "Figure it out." and walk away, which apparently happened under Eberflus/Waldron. Do parents let their children set the conditions for the house?

Caleb is very similar to Trevor Lawrence who was also a "generational talent" anointed as a true freshman as the next great thing and ended up in a bad situation and underwhelmed greatly. But people were very quick to blame Urban Meyer for everything that went wrong with Trevor. Maybe he's more likeable even if I personally find his hair to be an affront to all that is decent and good in this world. Caleb had a much better rookie season than Trevor, btw.

I am not sure how much more people want to say negative about Caleb but, I think most of us are on the same, very realistic page about who Caleb is and if he can succeed at the NFL level.

I guess hearing about Waldron and Uberfluss constantly in here grinds my gears. I was also tired of hearing about Canada in the in the Kenny Pickett thread too. Guess what, they both were bad.

That's more than likely the case here.

 

[Chaka]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

They didn't have to, they capitulated to Caleb's immaturity.

Maybe they had their "hands tied behind their back" but, that's also on them. If they were worried more about success and less about whether or not they might keep their jobs if they they bruise the fragile ego of their hopefully star QB, they might still be coaching in Chicago.

But now it's like, here we have a lot of good information, insightful stuff about Caleb Williams character, in the Caleb Williams thread, and we're still talking about Waldren and Euberfluss were terrible.

We get it, they sucked. Can we talk about Caleb Williams part the Bears last year, just for a minute? Since we are in the Caleb Williams thread.

Personally, I have been talking about it in great detail, including in the post you quoted. Seems a lot of people are.

Caleb has all the physical tools in the world and, he's not stupid by any means but, he's not Peyton Manning. Who's drive on the mental aspect of the game was notorious. Caleb has mostly relied on his physical tools and hasn't had to learn how to be a professional. He's clearly immature and struggling with the day-in day-out grind of being a QB in the NFL.

But, as with any leader, subordinate situation it's on the leader to turn the subordinate into a professional. Not the other way around. If you're a leader and care at all about success you don't just say "Figure it out." and walk away, which apparently happened under Eberflus/Waldron. Do parents let their children set the conditions for the house?

Caleb is very similar to Trevor Lawrence who was also a "generational talent" anointed as a true freshman as the next great thing and ended up in a bad situation and underwhelmed greatly. But people were very quick to blame Urban Meyer for everything that went wrong with Trevor. Maybe he's more likeable even if I personally find his hair to be an affront to all that is decent and good in this world. Caleb had a much better rookie season than Trevor, btw.

I am not sure how much more people want to say negative about Caleb but, I think most of us are on the same, very realistic page about who Caleb is and if he can succeed at the NFL level.

I guess hearing about Waldron and Uberfluss constantly in here grinds my gears. I was also tired of hearing about Canada in the in the Kenny Pickett thread too. Guess what, they both were bad.

That's more than likely the case here.

I guess but you can't really untangle Caleb from his coaching. Caleb can be immature and have a questionable work ethic and Eberflus/Waldron can be terrible coaches independently. But you really cannot separate Caleb's outcomes from the people who were charged with managing them.

 

[cdclopper]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

They didn't have to, they capitulated to Caleb's immaturity.

Maybe they had their "hands tied behind their back" but, that's also on them. If they were worried more about success and less about whether or not they might keep their jobs if they they bruise the fragile ego of their hopefully star QB, they might still be coaching in Chicago.

But now it's like, here we have a lot of good information, insightful stuff about Caleb Williams character, in the Caleb Williams thread, and we're still talking about Waldren and Euberfluss were terrible.

We get it, they sucked. Can we talk about Caleb Williams part the Bears last year, just for a minute? Since we are in the Caleb Williams thread.

Personally, I have been talking about it in great detail, including in the post you quoted. Seems a lot of people are.

Caleb has all the physical tools in the world and, he's not stupid by any means but, he's not Peyton Manning. Who's drive on the mental aspect of the game was notorious. Caleb has mostly relied on his physical tools and hasn't had to learn how to be a professional. He's clearly immature and struggling with the day-in day-out grind of being a QB in the NFL.

But, as with any leader, subordinate situation it's on the leader to turn the subordinate into a professional. Not the other way around. If you're a leader and care at all about success you don't just say "Figure it out." and walk away, which apparently happened under Eberflus/Waldron. Do parents let their children set the conditions for the house?

Caleb is very similar to Trevor Lawrence who was also a "generational talent" anointed as a true freshman as the next great thing and ended up in a bad situation and underwhelmed greatly. But people were very quick to blame Urban Meyer for everything that went wrong with Trevor. Maybe he's more likeable even if I personally find his hair to be an affront to all that is decent and good in this world. Caleb had a much better rookie season than Trevor, btw.

I am not sure how much more people want to say negative about Caleb but, I think most of us are on the same, very realistic page about who Caleb is and if he can succeed at the NFL level.

I guess hearing about Waldron and Uberfluss constantly in here grinds my gears. I was also tired of hearing about Canada in the in the Kenny Pickett thread too. Guess what, they both were bad.

That's more than likely the case here.

I guess but you can't really untangle Caleb from his coaching. Caleb can be immature and have a questionable work ethic and Eberflus/Waldron can be terrible coaches independently. But you really cannot separate Caleb's outcomes from the people who were charged with managing them.

Except when there's a piece of in depth journalism which precisely describes both parts, the coach's and the quarterback's part, of the failure. When the coach's error was giving the qb too much freedom and not enough accountability, most ppl would say thats not a good look for the qb.

 

[Chaka]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

They didn't have to, they capitulated to Caleb's immaturity.

Maybe they had their "hands tied behind their back" but, that's also on them. If they were worried more about success and less about whether or not they might keep their jobs if they they bruise the fragile ego of their hopefully star QB, they might still be coaching in Chicago.

But now it's like, here we have a lot of good information, insightful stuff about Caleb Williams character, in the Caleb Williams thread, and we're still talking about Waldren and Euberfluss were terrible.

We get it, they sucked. Can we talk about Caleb Williams part the Bears last year, just for a minute? Since we are in the Caleb Williams thread.

Personally, I have been talking about it in great detail, including in the post you quoted. Seems a lot of people are.

Caleb has all the physical tools in the world and, he's not stupid by any means but, he's not Peyton Manning. Who's drive on the mental aspect of the game was notorious. Caleb has mostly relied on his physical tools and hasn't had to learn how to be a professional. He's clearly immature and struggling with the day-in day-out grind of being a QB in the NFL.

But, as with any leader, subordinate situation it's on the leader to turn the subordinate into a professional. Not the other way around. If you're a leader and care at all about success you don't just say "Figure it out." and walk away, which apparently happened under Eberflus/Waldron. Do parents let their children set the conditions for the house?

Caleb is very similar to Trevor Lawrence who was also a "generational talent" anointed as a true freshman as the next great thing and ended up in a bad situation and underwhelmed greatly. But people were very quick to blame Urban Meyer for everything that went wrong with Trevor. Maybe he's more likeable even if I personally find his hair to be an affront to all that is decent and good in this world. Caleb had a much better rookie season than Trevor, btw.

I am not sure how much more people want to say negative about Caleb but, I think most of us are on the same, very realistic page about who Caleb is and if he can succeed at the NFL level.

I guess hearing about Waldron and Uberfluss constantly in here grinds my gears. I was also tired of hearing about Canada in the in the Kenny Pickett thread too. Guess what, they both were bad.

That's more than likely the case here.

I guess but you can't really untangle Caleb from his coaching. Caleb can be immature and have a questionable work ethic and Eberflus/Waldron can be terrible coaches independently. But you really cannot separate Caleb's outcomes from the people who were charged with managing them.

Except when there's a piece of in depth journalism which precisely describes both parts, the coach's and the quarterback's part, of the failure. When the coach's error was giving the qb too much freedom and not enough accountability, most ppl would say thats not a good look for the qb.

It's not a good look for either. I mean, I know you understand that is the head coach's job to, y'know coach. So, what's the problem?

 

[Manster]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

They didn't have to, they capitulated to Caleb's immaturity.

Maybe they had their "hands tied behind their back" but, that's also on them. If they were worried more about success and less about whether or not they might keep their jobs if they they bruise the fragile ego of their hopefully star QB, they might still be coaching in Chicago.

This is the day, and age of allowing the players (in some organizations) to run the show. Caleb clearly thought he was going to do that in Chicago. The only question I have is Ben Johnson going going be able to rein him in and make him part of a team? We know the tools are there. But upstairs….we shall see. I only care because I have him in FF.

 

[cdclopper]

Hopefully his next babysitter will make him eat his dinner before letting him have ice cream.

 

[Chaka]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

They didn't have to, they capitulated to Caleb's immaturity.

Maybe they had their "hands tied behind their back" but, that's also on them. If they were worried more about success and less about whether or not they might keep their jobs if they they bruise the fragile ego of their hopefully star QB, they might still be coaching in Chicago.

This is the day, and age of allowing the players (in some organizations) to run the show. Caleb clearly thought he was going to do that in Chicago. The only question I have is Ben Johnson going going be able to rein him in and make him part of a team? We know the tools are there. But upstairs….we shall see. I only care because I have him in FF.

It's a good question. I agree with the logic that the Bagent signing is about more than just securing a backup. It feels like a contingency plan if things go sideways with Caleb this year.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

The coaches don't have to put their name on it for it to be true that Caleb Williams is dumb, lazy, and difficult. That's my interperentation. If Euberfluss and Waldren were poor leaders and coaches, its because they were too lax on Caleb Williams. That doesnt say anything good about the player. I mean, we are in the Caleb Williams thread, after all. Does he need Ben Johnson to come in and hold accountable with some strong leadership? It's not a good look. It's more Kyler Murray and less Patrick Mahomes kind of leadership and work ethic. I mean, if he's flat ignoring the coaches, for real thats not a red flag for you? What happens if he starts ignoring the great Ben Johnson?

Eberflus sucked long before Caleb got there. He should not have had a job Caleb's rookie year because of his performance the previous two years. Would it have made a difference in the Bear's season or Caleb's development? Maybe, maybe not, but it couldn't have hurt. Bears knew Eberflus sucked and kept him around. His first two years with the Bears were brutally bad. Justin Fields won them a few games playing playground ball, and if he didn't, he'd have been fired before 2024. It's that simple.

I don't dispute Caleb has issues, and I believe many of them are correctable and related to maturity. And yet, I still have a problem with people anonymously airing their dirty laundry. I mean, what's the point? To hurt Caleb? To hurt the Bears? What? (Those questions are rhetorical btw, we all the know answer. These guys wanted to make themselves feel better about losing their job and stick a knife in the guy's back they feel was responsible for it)

 

[massraider]

I know the normal process is to dismiss criticism of Williams as old dude who doesn't like fingernail painting

Hasn't the normal process been to criticize Caleb for things he didn't say, and didn't do, and to apply made up theories by internet clickbait to him before he played a game?

Did you feel like he has been getting the benefit of the doubt?

That would be a scorching hot take, IMO.

 

[rockaction]

Did you feel like he has been getting the benefit of the doubt?

I feel like the people defending him now are sort of people that are always cynical about any type of authority and sort of generally ill-tempered. Unless you're Chaka and you're from SoCal like me so you followed him and have an attachment to him it seems odd that you'd take issue with people who previously criticized him. They had a point depending on their reasoning.

This guy reeks to high heaven and if you can't sort of at least reflect upon how the wagons were circled for a kid that does weird **** like paint obscenities into his fingernails about other teams then I don't know what to tell you about your own makeup. I mean, your argument is basically, "Yeah, but you were fallacious for judging him for the wrong reasons!"

Guess what, kiddo? Those weren't fallacious or stupid reasons at all. Kid almost definitely had the exact issues people said he had. I do get that you think it's like a broken clock being right twice a day but you're strawmanning the argument. The argument isn't "he's effeminate because he paints his nails, therefore he'll be a problem in some undefined way." The argument is actually, "that kid emblazoned himself with obscenities and directed those vulgarities at the other team, which is awfully odd when one considers the method, delivery, and content of the message. And it also shows that his focus is suspect—it is a weird focus on sending a message that is antagonistic rather than focusing on the job at hand."

I could give a **** if my QB paints his nails. Paint them day-glo green and pink and start quoting Ken Kesey for all I care. But something was off with this dude.

 

[cdclopper]

Probably has nothing to do with painting his nails. More to do with his attitude, like not listening to coaching or putting the time in to learn the playbook fully.

 

[massraider]

Probably has nothing to do with painting his nails

Are you calling Joe a liar?

 

[rockaction]

Did you feel like he has been getting the benefit of the doubt?

I feel like the people defending him now are sort of people that are always cynical about any type of authority and sort of generally ill-tempered. Unless you're Chaka and you're from SoCal like me so you followed him and have an attachment to him it seems odd that you'd take issue with people who previously criticized him. They had a point depending on their reasoning.

This guy reeks to high heaven and if you can't sort of at least reflect upon how the wagons were circled for a kid that does weird **** like paint obscenities into his fingernails about other teams then I don't know what to tell you about your own makeup. I mean, your argument is basically, "Yeah, but you were fallacious for judging him for the wrong reasons!"

Guess what, kiddo? Those weren't fallacious or stupid reasons at all. Kid almost definitely had the exact issues people said he had. I do get that you think it's like a broken clock being right twice a day but you're strawmanning the argument. The argument isn't "he's effeminate because he paints his nails, therefore he'll be a problem in some undefined way," the argument is actually, "that kid emblazoned himself with obscenities and directed those vulgarities at the other team, which is awfully odd when one considers the method, delivery, and content of the message. And it also shows that his focus is suspect—it is a weird focus on sending a message that is antagonistic rather than focusing on the job at hand."

I could give a **** if my QB paints his nails. Paint them day-glo green and pink and start quoting Ken Kesey for all I care. But something was off with this dude.

You're so worried about being right about Caleb after one season you're just doing the opposite of what you're accusing his supporters are. Heck, you're just being a simpleton who thinks you have to be on one side or the other when in reality you can be somewhere in the middle realizing QB development sometimes takes time. Seasons like Daniels had are most certainly anomalies in this league. To say Caleb doesn't have elite traits is asinine. To say Caleb didn't cause a lot of his problems last season is just as bad.

No, I'm not worried about being right in the least. I don't think I really discussed it very publicly. I've got no reputation to uphold nor am I worried about seeming correct. I'm discussing the weird back-and-forth each side had about this kid. But your post is just off regardless. I'd appreciate it if your weird personal attacks and motive attributive self just put me on ignore.

You don't have a temperament or demeanor that I'm ever going to respond to because you seem like you missed the socialization process as a young man. Take care.

 

[massraider]

. They had a point depending on their reasoning

No. They didn't

 

[Joe Bryant]

Probably has nothing to do with painting his nails. More to do with his attitude, like not listening to coaching or putting the time in to learn the playbook fully.

Agreed.

I'm just saying I've seen it where the person doing the criticizing might have legit reasons (like much of the article laid out) but the respone is that there must be some sort of underlying bias.

Just my experience.

 

[Joe Bryant]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

They didn't have to, they capitulated to Caleb's immaturity.

Maybe they had their "hands tied behind their back" but, that's also on them. If they were worried more about success and less about whether or not they might keep their jobs if they they bruise the fragile ego of their hopefully star QB, they might still be coaching in Chicago.

This is the day, and age of allowing the players (in some organizations) to run the show. Caleb clearly thought he was going to do that in Chicago. The only question I have is Ben Johnson going going be able to rein him in and make him part of a team? We know the tools are there. But upstairs….we shall see. I only care because I have him in FF.

It's a good question. I agree with the logic that the Bagent signing is about more than just securing a backup. It feels like a contingency plan if things go sideways with Caleb this year.

I'm hearing more and more of that. Especially from people in Chicago.

I think the Bears HC/QB storyline is one of the more interesting things to watch unfold this year.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

They didn't have to, they capitulated to Caleb's immaturity.

Maybe they had their "hands tied behind their back" but, that's also on them. If they were worried more about success and less about whether or not they might keep their jobs if they they bruise the fragile ego of their hopefully star QB, they might still be coaching in Chicago.

This is the day, and age of allowing the players (in some organizations) to run the show. Caleb clearly thought he was going to do that in Chicago. The only question I have is Ben Johnson going going be able to rein him in and make him part of a team? We know the tools are there. But upstairs….we shall see. I only care because I have him in FF.

It's a good question. I agree with the logic that the Bagent signing is about more than just securing a backup. It feels like a contingency plan if things go sideways with Caleb this year.

I'm hearing more and more of that. Especially from people in Chicago.

I think the Bears HC/QB storyline is one of the more interesting things to watch unfold this year.

You can never have too man options at QB. That said, Bagent sure seems like a guy who can play in the league but may not be a guy to get you to a Superbowl. The weapons in Chicago are there on the offensive side of the ball. If Poles can shore up the defense into a Bears-esque unit, then maybe it doesn't matter who the QB is?