QB Caleb Williams, CHI (3 Viewers)

[The Frankman]

The other underlying issue (and it was brought up multiple times on the FOX broadcast) is Caleb was holding onto the ball forever because no one was open. There must have been 4-5 replays shown in the 2nd half where he's holding it looking for someone to separate and it doesn't happen.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Caleb certainly demands a bunch of the blame for his performance and I haven't seen anything where he is passing the buck on accountability.

Agreed. I haven't seen him passing the buck on accountability.

I see it from fans.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I have to ask. Wouldn't they be benching him so he doesn't end up with David Carr syndrome? Bring him back when they stabilized the Oline if that is possible. Sorry Tyson you are going to take some hits for the team.

I'm sure that's part of the discussion.

 

[zamboni]

IMO it all comes back to rushing in rookie QBs too soon. For every Daniels, Stroud and Herbert that were successful right off the bat, the landscape is littered with those that failed right away - and often never fulfill their promise. As @Chaka mentioned upthread, it takes a village for a QB to be successful, much more than sheer talent and guile.

 

[travdogg]

Might be considered a wild take, but I don't think Caleb is playing all that badly overall. Last few weeks haven't been good, but overall, I think he's been fine. Exactly what should be expected from a rookie QB. He hasn't been Bryce Young or Anthony Richardson bad.

I think he's suffering a little because of how great Daniels has been. Now he's had some issues, especially with holding the ball too long. But he's also done a good job avoiding INTs. I do think without question, that he's getting no help from the coaching (neither did Fields) and the supporting cast is disappointing, even independent of Caleb. Allen has clearly lost a step, maybe 2, DJ Moore is either hurt, or he got paid, because he looks like a mediocre WR, Kmet has always been a mediocre player, and Odunze is having the same rookie growing pains Caleb is, though they should be getting him more involved.

 

[Dizzy]

Might be considered a wild take, but I don't think Caleb is playing all that badly overall. Last few weeks haven't been good, but overall, I think he's been fine. Exactly what should be expected from a rookie QB. He hasn't been Bryce Young or Anthony Richardson bad.

I think he's suffering a little because of how great Daniels has been. Now he's had some issues, especially with holding the ball too long. But he's also done a good job avoiding INTs. I do think without question, that he's getting no help from the coaching (neither did Fields) and the supporting cast is disappointing, even independent of Caleb. Allen has clearly lost a step, maybe 2, DJ Moore is either hurt, or he got paid, because he looks like a mediocre WR, Kmet has always been a mediocre player, and Odunze is having the same rookie growing pains Caleb is, though they should be getting him more involved.

He appears to be regressing a bit from that 3-4 game run a couple weeks back (against bad teams). He is on pace to break David Carr's record for "most sacked rookie QB" which is probably why he is descending into a full-blown case of the yipps. He's holding the ball way too long and taking hits instead of throwing it away or throwing it in rhythm. Accuracy is a major issue as well. He'll just have to survive year-one at this point and get to work in the off-season.

 

[Bad_Mo2]

Chicago drafted the wrong guy.

 

[Zow]

Chicago drafted the wrong guy.

Nah he was the clear top choice and it’s still way too early to say. He’s still making pro level throws and the physical metrics remain. He may still bust, but with Chicago overall looking way worse than envisioned I think it’s more of an organizational failure at this point.

In contrast, Bryce Young looks like an alarming bust because the accuracy hasn’t been there and he doesn’t possess the physical traits Caleb does.

 

[Ack88]

Might be considered a wild take, but I don't think Caleb is playing all that badly overall. Last few weeks haven't been good, but overall, I think he's been fine. Exactly what should be expected from a rookie QB. He hasn't been Bryce Young or Anthony Richardson bad.

I think he's suffering a little because of how great Daniels has been. Now he's had some issues, especially with holding the ball too long. But he's also done a good job avoiding INTs. I do think without question, that he's getting no help from the coaching (neither did Fields) and the supporting cast is disappointing, even independent of Caleb. Allen has clearly lost a step, maybe 2, DJ Moore is either hurt, or he got paid, because he looks like a mediocre WR, Kmet has always been a mediocre player, and Odunze is having the same rookie growing pains Caleb is, though they should be getting him more involved.

I agree. The o line absolutely stinks and the play calling hasn’t been good. Need to give him layup passes early on and build- haven’t done that at all.

 

[Faust]

Dan Orlovsky
A foreshadowed issue::

Caleb Williams is the only QB to take 15 sacks in a 2-game span this season.

He leads the NFL with 19 sacks when his O-line records a pass-block WIN.

He co-leads the NFL (Deshaun Watson) with 27 sacks on extended dropbacks (4+ seconds after snap).

x.com

x.com

 

[Faust]

Daniel Jeremiah
Biggest issue for Caleb Williams right now—playing tentative. He’s not cutting it loose. He’s trying too hard to avoid mistakes & then he’s guiding the ball. It’s almost like it’s been beat into him- don’t screw up!! The OL isn’t good but this is the bigger problem right now.

x.com

x.com

 

[The Frankman]

The Athletic’s Jeff Howe reports “midseason offensive regression has raised concerns over Caleb Williams’ long-term viability as a franchise quarterback.”

Williams and the Chicago offense has collapsed in recent weeks, including in Week 10 against a bottom-dwelling Patriots defense that sacked Williams nine times. The rookie has taken a league-high 38 sacks on the season and has been sacked on 29 percent of his pressures — the third highest rate in the NFL. Williams has been the most inaccurate quarterback in the NFL over the past month. NFL executives told The Athletic that Williams had fallen back into many of the bag habits that plagued him at USC. “He is doing the same things he did in college in terms of holding the ball and being inconsistent with his reads,” a league executive said. “He could get away with running around, throwing the ball up for grabs, throwing across his body, and he had some success doing that. You don’t get away with that at the NFL level too often. I’m a little surprised they haven’t been able to clean some of this up.” Addressing Williams’ multitude of shortcomings will be the Bears’ primary goal in the final eight weeks of the season. He’ll almost assuredly have a new head coach and offensive coordinator in 2025.
- The Athletic

 

[-OZ-]

Chicago drafted the wrong guy.

Jayden is fantastic but it’s way too early to say this with any confidence.

 

[Sir Psycho]

Bears fired OC Shane Waldron.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

I'm fascinated in how any negative play from Williams is automatically deemed to be 100% the coaches fault.

Would Williams be better in Kansas City or with the Rams? Certainly. But the guy has looked not good a good bit. I'm not willing to put 100% on the coaches.

Do you think Waldron should have been fired today?

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

Waldron is Nathaniel Hackett level bad. These guys should be cleaning jock straps in the NFL, at best.

Williams' talent is clearly there, but the situation he's in is a mess mostly due to coaching. The situation and the player's deficiencies remind me a lot Baker being drafted in Cleveland and how that all played out. They almost ruined the player. Baker and Caleb's personalities might be on opposite ends of the spectrum, and IMHO Caleb is the far superior athlete, but their skillset and weaknesses as young players are eerily similar.

Chicago needs to clean house and surround Caleb with the right people before it's too late. Giving Eberflus even one more week is a massive mistake. We know who he is, and that's not going to change. He's been in full on panic mode for weeks and Caleb doesn't need that type of guy around him. Calling out your players in press conferences as the captain of the ship is 100% unacceptable.

 

[General Malaise]

Chicago drafted the wrong guy.

Nah he was the clear top choice and it’s still way too early to say. He’s still making pro level throws and the physical metrics remain. He may still bust, but with Chicago overall looking way worse than envisioned I think it’s more of an organizational failure at this point.

In contrast, Bryce Young looks like an alarming bust because the accuracy hasn’t been there and he doesn’t possess the physical traits Caleb does.

Hasn't Bryce won two games in a row?

 

[Statorama]

Waldron is Nathaniel Hackett level bad. These guys should be cleaning jock straps on the NFL, at best.

Williams' talent is clearly there, but the situation he's in is a mess mostly due to coaching. The situation and the player's deficiencies remind me a lot Baker being drafted in Cleveland and how that all played out. They almost ruined the player. Baker and Caleb's personalities might be on opposite ends of the spectrum, and IMHO Caleb is the far superior athlete, but their skillset and weaknesses as young players are eerily similar.

Chicago needs to clean house and surround Caleb with the right people before it's too late. Giving Eberflus even one more weak is a massive mistake. We know who he is, and that's not going to change. He's been in full on panic mode for weeks and Caleb doesn't need that type of guy around him. Calling out your players in press conferences as the captain of the ship is 100% unacceptable.

Everyone on that staff is the walking dead. No one will survive the reckoning that is coming this off-season.

 

[General Malaise]

I just think if you're going to take a franchise QB #1 overall it is imperative that he has an offense minded HC. Absent that, you've got to find him an OC that can relate to the player, a la Kliff Kingsbury in DC. Prefect coach for a rookie QB to learn from while the HC runs the defense/operations. Bo Nix was hand selected by Payton, an offensive power brain. I think the biggest mistake Chicago made wasn't drafting Williams - I still think he's got STAR written all over him - it was pairing him up with a defensive coach and an OC who wasn't highly regarded coming in.

The Carr comparisons aren't perfect though I do see an erosion of confidence as a problem. Carr wasn't mobile, he just sat back there and got abused by an expansion team's OL. What Caleb is doing is trying to buy time the way he did at USC and while he could get away with it in college, his WRs aren't going to magically get open with more time. The dancing around in the backfield is a habit his next coaches are going to have to break him out of because say what you will, the kid is TOUGH but there's only so many hits his body will be able to take. See Newton, Cam.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

Waldron is Nathaniel Hackett level bad. These guys should be cleaning jock straps on the NFL, at best.

Williams' talent is clearly there, but the situation he's in is a mess mostly due to coaching. The situation and the player's deficiencies remind me a lot Baker being drafted in Cleveland and how that all played out. They almost ruined the player. Baker and Caleb's personalities might be on opposite ends of the spectrum, and IMHO Caleb is the far superior athlete, but their skillset and weaknesses as young players are eerily similar.

Chicago needs to clean house and surround Caleb with the right people before it's too late. Giving Eberflus even one more weak is a massive mistake. We know who he is, and that's not going to change. He's been in full on panic mode for weeks and Caleb doesn't need that type of guy around him. Calling out your players in press conferences as the captain of the ship is 100% unacceptable.

Everyone on that staff is the walking dead. No one will survive the reckoning that is coming this off-season.

I know this, you know this, the world knows this. So fire them now. Put someone in charge that can be Caleb's hype man, build a little confidence. Stop the leaks until they can hire an offensive minded coach near year.

Chicago could see Eberflus wasn't that guy from season 1. How he's still there in season 3 is mind blowing. Poles seems like a great GM in so many ways, but maybe too nice/loyal to a fault?

Keeping the rest of this staff around as they flounder and cast blame as lame ducks will only work to further hinder Williams' development.

Justin knew.

Never Forget Justin Fields Tried To Warn Us About Matt Eberflus

Justin Fields issued a warning last year about the coaching being an issue. People didn't heed it, and now another QB is paying the price.

www.sportsmockery.com

 

[Zow]

Chicago drafted the wrong guy.

Nah he was the clear top choice and it’s still way too early to say. He’s still making pro level throws and the physical metrics remain. He may still bust, but with Chicago overall looking way worse than envisioned I think it’s more of an organizational failure at this point.

In contrast, Bryce Young looks like an alarming bust because the accuracy hasn’t been there and he doesn’t possess the physical traits Caleb does.

Hasn't Bryce won two games in a row?

He has. And Trent Dilfer a SB ring, Nickelback has platinum albums, and a few pretty attractive girls have previously consented to coitus with me. In other words, sometimes positive outcomes happen despite whether they should have.

In those two games Bryce Young barely combined to throw for >300 yards. I didn't see anything to change my previously stated analysis. He still looks like a boy amongst men.

 

[Zow]

I think the biggest mistake Chicago made wasn't drafting Williams - I still think he's got STAR written all over him - it was pairing him up with a defensive coach and an OC who wasn't highly regarded coming in.

Now this I agree with.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

I just think if you're going to take a franchise QB #1 overall it is imperative that he has an offense minded HC. Absent that, you've got to find him an OC that can relate to the player, a la Kliff Kingsbury in DC. Prefect coach for a rookie QB to learn from while the HC runs the defense/operations. Bo Nix was hand selected by Payton, an offensive power brain. I think the biggest mistake Chicago made wasn't drafting Williams - I still think he's got STAR written all over him - it was pairing him up with a defensive coach and an OC who wasn't highly regarded coming in.

The Carr comparisons aren't perfect though I do see an erosion of confidence as a problem. Carr wasn't mobile, he just sat back there and got abused by an expansion team's OL. What Caleb is doing is trying to buy time the way he did at USC and while he could get away with it in college, his WRs aren't going to magically get open with more time. The dancing around in the backfield is a habit his next coaches are going to have to break him out of because say what you will, the kid is TOUGH but there's only so many hits his body will be able to take. See Newton, Cam.

Kind of amazing Eberflus has been allowed to crush two top QB prospects like he has. He's not head coach material, and certainly not someone that's going to develop a QB, not even a transcendent talent like Williams.

The Bears screwed up big time not hiring Kingsbury over Waldron. Eberflus probably knew exactly what he was doing because if Kingsbury was on staff for a 4-5 start Eberflus might be the one that was sent packing. Bad leaders surround themselves with the weak minded. Good leaders surround themselves with people smarter than they are.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm fascinated in how any negative play from Williams is automatically deemed to be 100% the coaches fault.

Would Williams be better in Kansas City or with the Rams? Certainly. But the guy has looked not good a good bit. I'm not willing to put 100% on the coaches.

Do you think Waldron should have been fired today?

I can see it. From a "restless fans" angle, they needed to something. And I don't think they'd bench Williams.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I just think if you're going to take a franchise QB #1 overall it is imperative that he has an offense minded HC. Absent that, you've got to find him an OC that can relate to the player, a la Kliff Kingsbury in DC. Prefect coach for a rookie QB to learn from while the HC runs the defense/operations. Bo Nix was hand selected by Payton, an offensive power brain. I think the biggest mistake Chicago made wasn't drafting Williams - I still think he's got STAR written all over him - it was pairing him up with a defensive coach and an OC who wasn't highly regarded coming in.

The Carr comparisons aren't perfect though I do see an erosion of confidence as a problem. Carr wasn't mobile, he just sat back there and got abused by an expansion team's OL. What Caleb is doing is trying to buy time the way he did at USC and while he could get away with it in college, his WRs aren't going to magically get open with more time. The dancing around in the backfield is a habit his next coaches are going to have to break him out of because say what you will, the kid is TOUGH but there's only so many hits his body will be able to take. See Newton, Cam.

Kind of amazing Eberflus has been allowed to crush two top QB prospects like he has. He's not head coach material, and certainly not someone that's going to develop a QB, not even a transcendent talent like Williams.

The Bears screwed up big time not hiring Kingsbury over Waldron. Eberflus probably knew exactly what he was doing because if Kingsbury was on staff for a 4-5 start Eberflus might be the one that was sent packing. Bad leaders surround themselves with the weak minded. Good leaders surround themselves with people smarter than they are.

I know this is always the line. But I have a hard time believing Eberflus would intentionally not hire the guy he thought would give Williams the best chance. If Williams plays great, Eberflus looks great. The same way Dan Quinn does in Washington.

I know we like to paint these guys as petty idiots, but I have a hard time believing that was the reason. It's not like Kingsbury was Ben Johnson last year.

 

[Bad_Mo2]

I think the biggest mistake Chicago made wasn't drafting Williams - I still think he's got STAR written all over him - it was pairing him up with a defensive coach and an OC who wasn't highly regarded coming in.

Now this I agree with.

Kind of the New England situation...exactly.

 

[Joe Bryant]

It's Waddle and Silvy but they're reporting some vets wanted Williams benched.

Blasphemy

x.com

x.com

 

[General Malaise]

Chicago drafted the wrong guy.

Nah he was the clear top choice and it’s still way too early to say. He’s still making pro level throws and the physical metrics remain. He may still bust, but with Chicago overall looking way worse than envisioned I think it’s more of an organizational failure at this point.

In contrast, Bryce Young looks like an alarming bust because the accuracy hasn’t been there and he doesn’t possess the physical traits Caleb does.

Hasn't Bryce won two games in a row?

He has. And Trent Dilfer a SB ring, Nickelback has platinum albums, and a few pretty attractive girls have previously consented to coitus with me. In other words, sometimes positive outcomes happen despite whether they should have.

In those two games Bryce Young barely combined to throw for >300 yards. I didn't see anything to change my previously stated analysis. He still looks like a boy amongst men.

I think he looked better the last two games - not good, but better. He also played two of the worst teams not named Carolina. I think Carolina has made some good moves - getting rid of malcontents at WR, signing Hubbard to a long-term deal (that matters in the locker room) and giving Bryce another chance to show what he can do. I actually woke up at 6:30am to watch his game and was impressed early on. He has a lot of work to do and he may not make it (his size is a problem and he's not a ++ runner like Murray) but I can see some positive steps. Baby steps, but he looked god-awful to start the year.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

I just think if you're going to take a franchise QB #1 overall it is imperative that he has an offense minded HC. Absent that, you've got to find him an OC that can relate to the player, a la Kliff Kingsbury in DC. Prefect coach for a rookie QB to learn from while the HC runs the defense/operations. Bo Nix was hand selected by Payton, an offensive power brain. I think the biggest mistake Chicago made wasn't drafting Williams - I still think he's got STAR written all over him - it was pairing him up with a defensive coach and an OC who wasn't highly regarded coming in.

The Carr comparisons aren't perfect though I do see an erosion of confidence as a problem. Carr wasn't mobile, he just sat back there and got abused by an expansion team's OL. What Caleb is doing is trying to buy time the way he did at USC and while he could get away with it in college, his WRs aren't going to magically get open with more time. The dancing around in the backfield is a habit his next coaches are going to have to break him out of because say what you will, the kid is TOUGH but there's only so many hits his body will be able to take. See Newton, Cam.

Kind of amazing Eberflus has been allowed to crush two top QB prospects like he has. He's not head coach material, and certainly not someone that's going to develop a QB, not even a transcendent talent like Williams.

The Bears screwed up big time not hiring Kingsbury over Waldron. Eberflus probably knew exactly what he was doing because if Kingsbury was on staff for a 4-5 start Eberflus might be the one that was sent packing. Bad leaders surround themselves with the weak minded. Good leaders surround themselves with people smarter than they are.

I know this is always the line. But I have a hard time believing Eberflus would intentionally not hire the guy he thought would give Williams the best chance. If Williams plays great, Eberflus looks great. The same way Dan Quinn does in Washington.

I know we like to paint these guys as petty idiots, but I have a hard time believing that was the reason. It's not like Kingsbury was Ben Johnson last year.

I don't think anyone is painting any of these coaches as idiots (unless you're really digging into the twitterverse). From what I've observed as a non-football player/coach/executive, many of these guys really believe in "their system" and have an incredibly difficult time improvising outside of those boundaries. In this case, both Getsy and now Waldron have come in with a system and have not really changed what they were doing when plays/gameplans/etc were not working. The coaches that are able to mold their offense or defense philosophy around the players they HAVE and not the players they WANT are the ones that stay long term. You could see the same thing that happened in Chicago happen in Vegas. Getsy has/had a nice little system that worked very well with an all-pro QB. He stubbornly tried to fit Justin Fields into that mold, to poor results. He then tried to put Minshew into that mold and got the exact same results. The best coaches in the NFL are able to adapt their scheme to the players at hand and Shane Waldron, for whatever reason, was not able to adapt.

 

[Joe Schmo]

It's Waddle and Silvy but they're reporting some vets wanted Williams benched.

Blasphemy

x.com

x.com

Maybe said vets can show leadership and not chirp so much, that may help the situation more than being a *****.

 

[FarFromHome]

Norv Turner is a senior advisor for the Raiders. I bet they could bring him over for a 2nd round pick.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

It's Waddle and Silvy but they're reporting some vets wanted Williams benched.

Blasphemy

x.com

x.com

Maybe said vets can show leadership and not chirp so much, that may help the situation more than being a *****.

Or maybe some vets see a guy out there getting killed every week with what appears to be minimal teaching/coaching and straight up crap game planning?

 

[Joe Schmo]

It's Waddle and Silvy but they're reporting some vets wanted Williams benched.

Blasphemy

x.com

x.com

Maybe said vets can show leadership and not chirp so much, that may help the situation more than being a *****.

Or maybe some vets see a guy out there getting killed every week with what appears to be minimal teaching/coaching and straight up crap game planning?

Possible but the twit stated the vets went to Eberflus with the request so not sure that makes sense, imo.

 

[Chaka]

Norv Turner is a senior advisor for the Raiders. I bet they could bring him over for a 2nd round pick.

SOLD!!!

 

[Statorama]

Norv Turner is a senior advisor for the Raiders. I bet they could bring him over for a 2nd round pick.

Heck, he's probably a better receiver than Claypool

 

[rodalive]

The coaching has been terrible and it's not a surprise. That being said Caleb looks like complete crap, between his slightly better than AR5 accuracy to a seeming inability to process what is happening on the field. Bust o Meter heating up.

 

[Zow]

I just think if you're going to take a franchise QB #1 overall it is imperative that he has an offense minded HC. Absent that, you've got to find him an OC that can relate to the player, a la Kliff Kingsbury in DC. Prefect coach for a rookie QB to learn from while the HC runs the defense/operations. Bo Nix was hand selected by Payton, an offensive power brain. I think the biggest mistake Chicago made wasn't drafting Williams - I still think he's got STAR written all over him - it was pairing him up with a defensive coach and an OC who wasn't highly regarded coming in.

The Carr comparisons aren't perfect though I do see an erosion of confidence as a problem. Carr wasn't mobile, he just sat back there and got abused by an expansion team's OL. What Caleb is doing is trying to buy time the way he did at USC and while he could get away with it in college, his WRs aren't going to magically get open with more time. The dancing around in the backfield is a habit his next coaches are going to have to break him out of because say what you will, the kid is TOUGH but there's only so many hits his body will be able to take. See Newton, Cam.

Kind of amazing Eberflus has been allowed to crush two top QB prospects like he has. He's not head coach material, and certainly not someone that's going to develop a QB, not even a transcendent talent like Williams.

The Bears screwed up big time not hiring Kingsbury over Waldron. Eberflus probably knew exactly what he was doing because if Kingsbury was on staff for a 4-5 start Eberflus might be the one that was sent packing. Bad leaders surround themselves with the weak minded. Good leaders surround themselves with people smarter than they are.

I know this is always the line. But I have a hard time believing Eberflus would intentionally not hire the guy he thought would give Williams the best chance. If Williams plays great, Eberflus looks great. The same way Dan Quinn does in Washington.

I know we like to paint these guys as petty idiots, but I have a hard time believing that was the reason. It's not like Kingsbury was Ben Johnson last year.

Agree 100%. Coaching in the NFL is hard. Eberflus almost undoubtedly made what he thought were the best decisions for the franchise because franchise success = job security. It just hasn't worked out because, again, it's hard.

This conversation reminds me a lot of the conversations where a viewer/fan may accuse a player or a coach of intentionally losing a game - which is just frankly an unrealistic allegation.

 

[Zow]

It's Waddle and Silvy but they're reporting some vets wanted Williams benched.

Blasphemy

x.com

x.com

Maybe said vets can show leadership and not chirp so much, that may help the situation more than being a *****.

Eh, if it was done privately and with tact and we only know about it because somebody blabbed about it, I don't see it as much of an issue.

 

[Zow]

Norv Turner is a senior advisor for the Raiders. I bet they could bring him over for a 2nd round pick.

Pittsburgh might be willing to part with Fields for Caleb.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

I just think if you're going to take a franchise QB #1 overall it is imperative that he has an offense minded HC. Absent that, you've got to find him an OC that can relate to the player, a la Kliff Kingsbury in DC. Prefect coach for a rookie QB to learn from while the HC runs the defense/operations. Bo Nix was hand selected by Payton, an offensive power brain. I think the biggest mistake Chicago made wasn't drafting Williams - I still think he's got STAR written all over him - it was pairing him up with a defensive coach and an OC who wasn't highly regarded coming in.

The Carr comparisons aren't perfect though I do see an erosion of confidence as a problem. Carr wasn't mobile, he just sat back there and got abused by an expansion team's OL. What Caleb is doing is trying to buy time the way he did at USC and while he could get away with it in college, his WRs aren't going to magically get open with more time. The dancing around in the backfield is a habit his next coaches are going to have to break him out of because say what you will, the kid is TOUGH but there's only so many hits his body will be able to take. See Newton, Cam.

Kind of amazing Eberflus has been allowed to crush two top QB prospects like he has. He's not head coach material, and certainly not someone that's going to develop a QB, not even a transcendent talent like Williams.

The Bears screwed up big time not hiring Kingsbury over Waldron. Eberflus probably knew exactly what he was doing because if Kingsbury was on staff for a 4-5 start Eberflus might be the one that was sent packing. Bad leaders surround themselves with the weak minded. Good leaders surround themselves with people smarter than they are.

I know this is always the line. But I have a hard time believing Eberflus would intentionally not hire the guy he thought would give Williams the best chance. If Williams plays great, Eberflus looks great. The same way Dan Quinn does in Washington.

I know we like to paint these guys as petty idiots, but I have a hard time believing that was the reason. It's not like Kingsbury was Ben Johnson last year.

Whoa, hold on a minute.

"Who gives Williams the best chance to succeed" is very subjective even more so when you're considering why someone was hired and the factors taken into account before doing so. Bad leaders tend to gravitate towards bad employees, it's the way of the world. They don't like being challenged by superior talent, charisma and knowledge. Intentional or not, this is why the Peter Principle even exists in any organization with a hierarchy. It's even worse in an old boy's club like the NFL where sometimes a transcendent talent at QB or HC elevates a group of coaches to levels they should never see, but once they've climbed that mountain, it's hard to completely kick them off of it.

I have a firm belief 99.999% of players and coaches in the NFL WANT TO succeed. The number would be 100% but I do believe there are some sour grape ******* that show up from time to time. That said, that's not Eberflus. Just like almost all other head coaches in the NFL, he wants to win, he just doesn't know how. The problem lies in that all coaching talent is not created equal. Some coaches simply lack the skill, ability, charisma, self-awareness and knowledge to succeed in this business. Eberflus is that.

Just for fun, name me the best OC or DC the Bears have had in the 3 years Eberflus has been the HC with the Bears. I'll save you the time. Here's your list to choose from.

2022
OC - Luke Getsy
DC - Alan Williams

2023
OC - Luke Getsy
DC - Alan Williams/Ebeflus

2024
OC - Shane Waldron/Thomas Brown
DC - Eric Washington

FWIW, it wouldn't have taken a deep dive or much research to understand Luke Getsy or Shane Waldron were going to be terrible hires.

 

[Ray_T]

I just think if you're going to take a franchise QB #1 overall it is imperative that he has an offense minded HC. Absent that, you've got to find him an OC that can relate to the player, a la Kliff Kingsbury in DC. Prefect coach for a rookie QB to learn from while the HC runs the defense/operations. Bo Nix was hand selected by Payton, an offensive power brain. I think the biggest mistake Chicago made wasn't drafting Williams - I still think he's got STAR written all over him - it was pairing him up with a defensive coach and an OC who wasn't highly regarded coming in.

The Carr comparisons aren't perfect though I do see an erosion of confidence as a problem. Carr wasn't mobile, he just sat back there and got abused by an expansion team's OL. What Caleb is doing is trying to buy time the way he did at USC and while he could get away with it in college, his WRs aren't going to magically get open with more time. The dancing around in the backfield is a habit his next coaches are going to have to break him out of because say what you will, the kid is TOUGH but there's only so many hits his body will be able to take. See Newton, Cam.

well, there is no doubt that a good coach helps. but it is also worth noting the Bears O line has been less than good most of the year and that actually has NOT helped the situation.

I know part of this is due to injuries and I get it, but you cant be running a rookie QB out behind a leaky line like this either. its a good way to ruin your #1 pick. If I were the bears I'd be making some kind of move to at least stop the bleeding on the line so he has time to do what he needs to do. at this level an extra half second of protection can yield amazing results sometimes.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I just think if you're going to take a franchise QB #1 overall it is imperative that he has an offense minded HC. Absent that, you've got to find him an OC that can relate to the player, a la Kliff Kingsbury in DC. Prefect coach for a rookie QB to learn from while the HC runs the defense/operations. Bo Nix was hand selected by Payton, an offensive power brain. I think the biggest mistake Chicago made wasn't drafting Williams - I still think he's got STAR written all over him - it was pairing him up with a defensive coach and an OC who wasn't highly regarded coming in.

The Carr comparisons aren't perfect though I do see an erosion of confidence as a problem. Carr wasn't mobile, he just sat back there and got abused by an expansion team's OL. What Caleb is doing is trying to buy time the way he did at USC and while he could get away with it in college, his WRs aren't going to magically get open with more time. The dancing around in the backfield is a habit his next coaches are going to have to break him out of because say what you will, the kid is TOUGH but there's only so many hits his body will be able to take. See Newton, Cam.

Kind of amazing Eberflus has been allowed to crush two top QB prospects like he has. He's not head coach material, and certainly not someone that's going to develop a QB, not even a transcendent talent like Williams.

The Bears screwed up big time not hiring Kingsbury over Waldron. Eberflus probably knew exactly what he was doing because if Kingsbury was on staff for a 4-5 start Eberflus might be the one that was sent packing. Bad leaders surround themselves with the weak minded. Good leaders surround themselves with people smarter than they are.

I know this is always the line. But I have a hard time believing Eberflus would intentionally not hire the guy he thought would give Williams the best chance. If Williams plays great, Eberflus looks great. The same way Dan Quinn does in Washington.

I know we like to paint these guys as petty idiots, but I have a hard time believing that was the reason. It's not like Kingsbury was Ben Johnson last year.

Whoa, hold on a minute.

"Who gives Williams the best chance to succeed" is very subjective even more so when you're considering why someone was hired and the factors taken into account before doing so. Bad leaders tend to gravitate towards bad employees, it's the way of the world. They don't like being challenged by superior talent, charisma and knowledge. Intentional or not, this is why the Peter Principle even exists in any organization with a hierarchy. It's even worse in an old boy's club like the NFL where sometimes a transcendent talent at QB or HC elevates a group of coaches to levels they should never see, but once they've climbed that mountain, it's hard to completely kick them off of it.

I have a firm belief 99.999% of players and coaches in the NFL WANT TO succeed. The number would be 100% but I do believe there are some sour grape ******* that show up from time to time. That said, that's not Eberflus. Just like almost all other head coaches in the NFL, he wants to win, he just doesn't know how. The problem lies in that all coaching talent is not created equal. Some coaches simply lack the skill, ability, charisma, self-awareness and knowledge to succeed in this business. Eberflus is that.

Just for fun, name me the best OC or DC the Bears have had in the 3 years Eberflus has been the HC with the Bears. I'll save you the time. Here's your list to choose from.

2022
OC - Luke Getsy
DC - Alan Williams

2023
OC - Luke Getsy
DC - Alan Williams/Ebeflus

2024
OC - Shane Waldron/Thomas Brown
DC - Eric Washington

FWIW, it wouldn't have taken a deep dive or much research to understand Luke Getsy or Shane Waldron were going to be terrible hires.

I'm not talking about who's a good OC.

My comment was replying to

"The Bears screwed up big time not hiring Kingsbury over Waldron. Eberflus probably knew exactly what he was doing because if Kingsbury was on staff for a 4-5 start Eberflus might be the one that was sent packing. Bad leaders surround themselves with the weak minded. Good leaders surround themselves with people smarter than they are."

I doubt he "knew exactly what he was doing" and intentionally chose an OC he thought was worse than another OC he thought was better because he was worried about the team doing so well they'd want to make the OC the HC. We can disagree there.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I just think if you're going to take a franchise QB #1 overall it is imperative that he has an offense minded HC. Absent that, you've got to find him an OC that can relate to the player, a la Kliff Kingsbury in DC. Prefect coach for a rookie QB to learn from while the HC runs the defense/operations. Bo Nix was hand selected by Payton, an offensive power brain. I think the biggest mistake Chicago made wasn't drafting Williams - I still think he's got STAR written all over him - it was pairing him up with a defensive coach and an OC who wasn't highly regarded coming in.

The Carr comparisons aren't perfect though I do see an erosion of confidence as a problem. Carr wasn't mobile, he just sat back there and got abused by an expansion team's OL. What Caleb is doing is trying to buy time the way he did at USC and while he could get away with it in college, his WRs aren't going to magically get open with more time. The dancing around in the backfield is a habit his next coaches are going to have to break him out of because say what you will, the kid is TOUGH but there's only so many hits his body will be able to take. See Newton, Cam.

well, there is no doubt that a good coach helps. but it is also worth noting the Bears O line has been less than good most of the year and that actually has NOT helped the situation.

I know part of this is due to injuries and I get it, but you cant be running a rookie QB out behind a leaky line like this either. its a good way to ruin your #1 pick. If I were the bears I'd be making some kind of move to at least stop the bleeding on the line so he has time to do what he needs to do. at this level an extra half second of protection can yield amazing results sometimes.

Agreed.

It's interesting as PFF ranked the Bears offensive line 11th overall before the start of the season.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2024-offensive-line-rankings-detroit-lions-penei-sewell-frank-ragnow

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

I just think if you're going to take a franchise QB #1 overall it is imperative that he has an offense minded HC. Absent that, you've got to find him an OC that can relate to the player, a la Kliff Kingsbury in DC. Prefect coach for a rookie QB to learn from while the HC runs the defense/operations. Bo Nix was hand selected by Payton, an offensive power brain. I think the biggest mistake Chicago made wasn't drafting Williams - I still think he's got STAR written all over him - it was pairing him up with a defensive coach and an OC who wasn't highly regarded coming in.

The Carr comparisons aren't perfect though I do see an erosion of confidence as a problem. Carr wasn't mobile, he just sat back there and got abused by an expansion team's OL. What Caleb is doing is trying to buy time the way he did at USC and while he could get away with it in college, his WRs aren't going to magically get open with more time. The dancing around in the backfield is a habit his next coaches are going to have to break him out of because say what you will, the kid is TOUGH but there's only so many hits his body will be able to take. See Newton, Cam.

Kind of amazing Eberflus has been allowed to crush two top QB prospects like he has. He's not head coach material, and certainly not someone that's going to develop a QB, not even a transcendent talent like Williams.

The Bears screwed up big time not hiring Kingsbury over Waldron. Eberflus probably knew exactly what he was doing because if Kingsbury was on staff for a 4-5 start Eberflus might be the one that was sent packing. Bad leaders surround themselves with the weak minded. Good leaders surround themselves with people smarter than they are.

I know this is always the line. But I have a hard time believing Eberflus would intentionally not hire the guy he thought would give Williams the best chance. If Williams plays great, Eberflus looks great. The same way Dan Quinn does in Washington.

I know we like to paint these guys as petty idiots, but I have a hard time believing that was the reason. It's not like Kingsbury was Ben Johnson last year.

Whoa, hold on a minute.

"Who gives Williams the best chance to succeed" is very subjective even more so when you're considering why someone was hired and the factors taken into account before doing so. Bad leaders tend to gravitate towards bad employees, it's the way of the world. They don't like being challenged by superior talent, charisma and knowledge. Intentional or not, this is why the Peter Principle even exists in any organization with a hierarchy. It's even worse in an old boy's club like the NFL where sometimes a transcendent talent at QB or HC elevates a group of coaches to levels they should never see, but once they've climbed that mountain, it's hard to completely kick them off of it.

I have a firm belief 99.999% of players and coaches in the NFL WANT TO succeed. The number would be 100% but I do believe there are some sour grape ******* that show up from time to time. That said, that's not Eberflus. Just like almost all other head coaches in the NFL, he wants to win, he just doesn't know how. The problem lies in that all coaching talent is not created equal. Some coaches simply lack the skill, ability, charisma, self-awareness and knowledge to succeed in this business. Eberflus is that.

Just for fun, name me the best OC or DC the Bears have had in the 3 years Eberflus has been the HC with the Bears. I'll save you the time. Here's your list to choose from.

2022
OC - Luke Getsy
DC - Alan Williams

2023
OC - Luke Getsy
DC - Alan Williams/Ebeflus

2024
OC - Shane Waldron/Thomas Brown
DC - Eric Washington

FWIW, it wouldn't have taken a deep dive or much research to understand Luke Getsy or Shane Waldron were going to be terrible hires.

I'm not talking about who's a good OC.

My comment was replying to

"The Bears screwed up big time not hiring Kingsbury over Waldron. Eberflus probably knew exactly what he was doing because if Kingsbury was on staff for a 4-5 start Eberflus might be the one that was sent packing. Bad leaders surround themselves with the weak minded. Good leaders surround themselves with people smarter than they are."

I doubt he intentionally chose an OC he thought was worse than another potential OC because he was worried about the team doing so well they'd want to make the OC the HC. We can disagree there.

So rationally, explain what made Shane Waldron a good hire at the time? What possibly could have been the reason Eberflus chose HIM? Players disliked him, they openly criticized him. The team didn't want to promote him. There were red flags everywhere, yet Eberflus said, "you're my guy!"

Him choosing Waldron over Kingsbury or other candidates that would have loved to work with the #1 overall pick, a transcendent talent by all accounts, was just bad.

Now, we can argue his intentions until we're blue in the face because we'll likely never know his true through process but I'll go back to what I said earlier. Bad leaders surround themselves with bad talent. This is what happened. I'll leave it at that and put the rest to bed.

 

[General Malaise]

I just think if you're going to take a franchise QB #1 overall it is imperative that he has an offense minded HC. Absent that, you've got to find him an OC that can relate to the player, a la Kliff Kingsbury in DC. Prefect coach for a rookie QB to learn from while the HC runs the defense/operations. Bo Nix was hand selected by Payton, an offensive power brain. I think the biggest mistake Chicago made wasn't drafting Williams - I still think he's got STAR written all over him - it was pairing him up with a defensive coach and an OC who wasn't highly regarded coming in.

The Carr comparisons aren't perfect though I do see an erosion of confidence as a problem. Carr wasn't mobile, he just sat back there and got abused by an expansion team's OL. What Caleb is doing is trying to buy time the way he did at USC and while he could get away with it in college, his WRs aren't going to magically get open with more time. The dancing around in the backfield is a habit his next coaches are going to have to break him out of because say what you will, the kid is TOUGH but there's only so many hits his body will be able to take. See Newton, Cam.

well, there is no doubt that a good coach helps. but it is also worth noting the Bears O line has been less than good most of the year and that actually has NOT helped the situation.

I know part of this is due to injuries and I get it, but you cant be running a rookie QB out behind a leaky line like this either. its a good way to ruin your #1 pick. If I were the bears I'd be making some kind of move to at least stop the bleeding on the line so he has time to do what he needs to do. at this level an extra half second of protection can yield amazing results sometimes.

For sure the OL is and has been bad and that's a real problem. But there is no denying that Caleb holds on to the ball way too long and spends an inordinate amount of time trying to elude the pass rush. He has to learn how to get rid of the football faster and throw into tight coverage or throw his WRs open. He's not doing that. You can see the frustration on his teammates. I watched *A LOT* of his games at USC as a PAC12 guy - he hasn't evolved his QB play to the NFL level needed to succeed. The defenses are too good, too fast and the coverage is too sticky. He has to adapt his style of play.

And yes a better OL will help, no question. That ain't the full problem here.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I just think if you're going to take a franchise QB #1 overall it is imperative that he has an offense minded HC. Absent that, you've got to find him an OC that can relate to the player, a la Kliff Kingsbury in DC. Prefect coach for a rookie QB to learn from while the HC runs the defense/operations. Bo Nix was hand selected by Payton, an offensive power brain. I think the biggest mistake Chicago made wasn't drafting Williams - I still think he's got STAR written all over him - it was pairing him up with a defensive coach and an OC who wasn't highly regarded coming in.

The Carr comparisons aren't perfect though I do see an erosion of confidence as a problem. Carr wasn't mobile, he just sat back there and got abused by an expansion team's OL. What Caleb is doing is trying to buy time the way he did at USC and while he could get away with it in college, his WRs aren't going to magically get open with more time. The dancing around in the backfield is a habit his next coaches are going to have to break him out of because say what you will, the kid is TOUGH but there's only so many hits his body will be able to take. See Newton, Cam.

Kind of amazing Eberflus has been allowed to crush two top QB prospects like he has. He's not head coach material, and certainly not someone that's going to develop a QB, not even a transcendent talent like Williams.

The Bears screwed up big time not hiring Kingsbury over Waldron. Eberflus probably knew exactly what he was doing because if Kingsbury was on staff for a 4-5 start Eberflus might be the one that was sent packing. Bad leaders surround themselves with the weak minded. Good leaders surround themselves with people smarter than they are.

I know this is always the line. But I have a hard time believing Eberflus would intentionally not hire the guy he thought would give Williams the best chance. If Williams plays great, Eberflus looks great. The same way Dan Quinn does in Washington.

I know we like to paint these guys as petty idiots, but I have a hard time believing that was the reason. It's not like Kingsbury was Ben Johnson last year.

Whoa, hold on a minute.

"Who gives Williams the best chance to succeed" is very subjective even more so when you're considering why someone was hired and the factors taken into account before doing so. Bad leaders tend to gravitate towards bad employees, it's the way of the world. They don't like being challenged by superior talent, charisma and knowledge. Intentional or not, this is why the Peter Principle even exists in any organization with a hierarchy. It's even worse in an old boy's club like the NFL where sometimes a transcendent talent at QB or HC elevates a group of coaches to levels they should never see, but once they've climbed that mountain, it's hard to completely kick them off of it.

I have a firm belief 99.999% of players and coaches in the NFL WANT TO succeed. The number would be 100% but I do believe there are some sour grape ******* that show up from time to time. That said, that's not Eberflus. Just like almost all other head coaches in the NFL, he wants to win, he just doesn't know how. The problem lies in that all coaching talent is not created equal. Some coaches simply lack the skill, ability, charisma, self-awareness and knowledge to succeed in this business. Eberflus is that.

Just for fun, name me the best OC or DC the Bears have had in the 3 years Eberflus has been the HC with the Bears. I'll save you the time. Here's your list to choose from.

2022
OC - Luke Getsy
DC - Alan Williams

2023
OC - Luke Getsy
DC - Alan Williams/Ebeflus

2024
OC - Shane Waldron/Thomas Brown
DC - Eric Washington

FWIW, it wouldn't have taken a deep dive or much research to understand Luke Getsy or Shane Waldron were going to be terrible hires.

I'm not talking about who's a good OC.

My comment was replying to

"The Bears screwed up big time not hiring Kingsbury over Waldron. Eberflus probably knew exactly what he was doing because if Kingsbury was on staff for a 4-5 start Eberflus might be the one that was sent packing. Bad leaders surround themselves with the weak minded. Good leaders surround themselves with people smarter than they are."

I doubt he intentionally chose an OC he thought was worse than another potential OC because he was worried about the team doing so well they'd want to make the OC the HC. We can disagree there.

So rationally, explain what made Shane Waldron a good hire at the time? What possibly could have been the reason Eberflus chose HIM? Players disliked him, they openly criticized him. The team didn't want to promote him. There were red flags everywhere, yet Eberflus said, "you're my guy!"

Him choosing Waldron over Kingsbury or other candidates that would have loved to work with the #1 overall pick, a transcendent talent by all accounts, was just bad.

Now, we can argue his intentions until we're blue in the face because we'll likely never know his true through process but I'll go back to what I said earlier. Bad leaders surround themselves with bad talent. This is what happened. I'll leave it at that and put the rest to bed.

I wasn't in the front office meetings when they made the decision.

My guess is they were honest here with their reasons when they hired him.

OFFICIAL: Bears hire former Seahawks OC Shane Waldron as new offensive coordinator

"We are excited to add Shane to our coaching staff," coach Matt Eberflus said. "I also want to thank all the candidates we spoke to throughout the interview process. This was a very exhaustive search, but in the end I'm grateful the journey led us to Shane. He is a great teacher and communicator with a diverse coaching background among some of the game's most elite head coaches. I look forward to partnering with him as we build out the rest of the staff and get him started here."

Waldron, 44, has spent 10 seasons coaching in the NFL, including the last three as the Seahawks' offensive coordinator. He also has seven seasons of experience at the collegiate level and one in the United Football League.

"I appreciate this opportunity given to me by Coach Eberflus and Ryan Poles," Waldron said. "We can't wait to get to work at a franchise with such a storied history and passionate fan base."
In three seasons in Seattle, Waldron's offense ranked third in yards per touch (7.8), third in big plays passing* (110), fourth in big plays rushing* percentage (13.0%), fifth in completion percentage (66.6%), eighth in yards per reception (11.2) and tied for tenth in passing touchdowns (83). The Seahawks' offense also ranked tied for first in turnovers (53), second in interceptions (31) and fifth in interception percentage (1.9%).

*Big plays are defined as runs of 10+ yards and passes of 25+ yards

Last season, Seattle's offense averaged 21.4 points and 322.9 yards per game. Under Waldron's guidance, Seattle quarterback Geno Smith revitalized his NFL career. In 2022, Smith finished the season as the league leader in completion percentage (69.8) and ranked fourth in touchdown passes (30), fifth in passer rating (100.9) and eighth in passing yards (4,282) en route to his first Pro Bowl selection and AP Comeback Player of the Year honors. That same year, Seahawks receivers Tyler Lockett and DK Metcalf both had 1,000-yard seasons.

In Waldron's first season as Seattle's offensive coordinator in 2021, he oversaw the emergence of running back Rashaad Penny as the Seattle rushing attack finished third in the NFL with 5.02 rushing yards per attempt. Both Lockett and Metcalf set career-highs in different receiving categories and Russell Wilson became just the second quarterback in NFL history to record at least 3,000 passing yards and 20 TDs in each of his first 10 seasons.

There may well be other things that were in play.

What I don't think was in play was "Eberflus probably knew exactly what he was doing because if Kingsbury was on staff for a 4-5 start Eberflus might be the one that was sent packing. Bad leaders surround themselves with the weak minded."

With that said, I wasn't there. Maybe in fact you are right and Eberflus really did know Kingsbury would have been much better but chose to hire a lesser OC. We can disagree there.

 

[General Malaise]

Does Waldron get some credit for the resurgence of Geno Smith? I don't recall much of his time in Seattle other than Russell wanted him because he came from the McVay tree.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Does Waldron get some credit for the resurgence of Geno Smith? I don't recall much of his time in Seattle other than Russell wanted him because he came from the McVay tree.

Seahawk fans can answer better than me GB but I'd think he'd have to get some credit.

From the Bears note above:

Last season, Seattle's offense averaged 21.4 points and 322.9 yards per game. Under Waldron's guidance, Seattle quarterback Geno Smith revitalized his NFL career. In 2022, Smith finished the season as the league leader in completion percentage (69.8) and ranked fourth in touchdown passes (30), fifth in passer rating (100.9) and eighth in passing yards (4,282) en route to his first Pro Bowl selection and AP Comeback Player of the Year honors. That same year, Seahawks receivers Tyler Lockett and DK Metcalf both had 1,000-yard seasons.

None of the Geno Smith resurgence matters now, though. This is a what did you do this month league and the Bears have been bad and Waldron is an idiot apparently.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

I just think if you're going to take a franchise QB #1 overall it is imperative that he has an offense minded HC. Absent that, you've got to find him an OC that can relate to the player, a la Kliff Kingsbury in DC. Prefect coach for a rookie QB to learn from while the HC runs the defense/operations. Bo Nix was hand selected by Payton, an offensive power brain. I think the biggest mistake Chicago made wasn't drafting Williams - I still think he's got STAR written all over him - it was pairing him up with a defensive coach and an OC who wasn't highly regarded coming in.

The Carr comparisons aren't perfect though I do see an erosion of confidence as a problem. Carr wasn't mobile, he just sat back there and got abused by an expansion team's OL. What Caleb is doing is trying to buy time the way he did at USC and while he could get away with it in college, his WRs aren't going to magically get open with more time. The dancing around in the backfield is a habit his next coaches are going to have to break him out of because say what you will, the kid is TOUGH but there's only so many hits his body will be able to take. See Newton, Cam.

Kind of amazing Eberflus has been allowed to crush two top QB prospects like he has. He's not head coach material, and certainly not someone that's going to develop a QB, not even a transcendent talent like Williams.

The Bears screwed up big time not hiring Kingsbury over Waldron. Eberflus probably knew exactly what he was doing because if Kingsbury was on staff for a 4-5 start Eberflus might be the one that was sent packing. Bad leaders surround themselves with the weak minded. Good leaders surround themselves with people smarter than they are.

I know this is always the line. But I have a hard time believing Eberflus would intentionally not hire the guy he thought would give Williams the best chance. If Williams plays great, Eberflus looks great. The same way Dan Quinn does in Washington.

I know we like to paint these guys as petty idiots, but I have a hard time believing that was the reason. It's not like Kingsbury was Ben Johnson last year.

Whoa, hold on a minute.

"Who gives Williams the best chance to succeed" is very subjective even more so when you're considering why someone was hired and the factors taken into account before doing so. Bad leaders tend to gravitate towards bad employees, it's the way of the world. They don't like being challenged by superior talent, charisma and knowledge. Intentional or not, this is why the Peter Principle even exists in any organization with a hierarchy. It's even worse in an old boy's club like the NFL where sometimes a transcendent talent at QB or HC elevates a group of coaches to levels they should never see, but once they've climbed that mountain, it's hard to completely kick them off of it.

I have a firm belief 99.999% of players and coaches in the NFL WANT TO succeed. The number would be 100% but I do believe there are some sour grape ******* that show up from time to time. That said, that's not Eberflus. Just like almost all other head coaches in the NFL, he wants to win, he just doesn't know how. The problem lies in that all coaching talent is not created equal. Some coaches simply lack the skill, ability, charisma, self-awareness and knowledge to succeed in this business. Eberflus is that.

Just for fun, name me the best OC or DC the Bears have had in the 3 years Eberflus has been the HC with the Bears. I'll save you the time. Here's your list to choose from.

2022
OC - Luke Getsy
DC - Alan Williams

2023
OC - Luke Getsy
DC - Alan Williams/Ebeflus

2024
OC - Shane Waldron/Thomas Brown
DC - Eric Washington

FWIW, it wouldn't have taken a deep dive or much research to understand Luke Getsy or Shane Waldron were going to be terrible hires.

I'm not talking about who's a good OC.

My comment was replying to

"The Bears screwed up big time not hiring Kingsbury over Waldron. Eberflus probably knew exactly what he was doing because if Kingsbury was on staff for a 4-5 start Eberflus might be the one that was sent packing. Bad leaders surround themselves with the weak minded. Good leaders surround themselves with people smarter than they are."

I doubt he intentionally chose an OC he thought was worse than another potential OC because he was worried about the team doing so well they'd want to make the OC the HC. We can disagree there.

So rationally, explain what made Shane Waldron a good hire at the time? What possibly could have been the reason Eberflus chose HIM? Players disliked him, they openly criticized him. The team didn't want to promote him. There were red flags everywhere, yet Eberflus said, "you're my guy!"

Him choosing Waldron over Kingsbury or other candidates that would have loved to work with the #1 overall pick, a transcendent talent by all accounts, was just bad.

Now, we can argue his intentions until we're blue in the face because we'll likely never know his true through process but I'll go back to what I said earlier. Bad leaders surround themselves with bad talent. This is what happened. I'll leave it at that and put the rest to bed.

I wasn't in the front office meetings when they made the decision.

My guess is they were honest here with their reasons when they hired him.

OFFICIAL: Bears hire former Seahawks OC Shane Waldron as new offensive coordinator

"We are excited to add Shane to our coaching staff," coach Matt Eberflus said. "I also want to thank all the candidates we spoke to throughout the interview process. This was a very exhaustive search, but in the end I'm grateful the journey led us to Shane. He is a great teacher and communicator with a diverse coaching background among some of the game's most elite head coaches. I look forward to partnering with him as we build out the rest of the staff and get him started here."

Waldron, 44, has spent 10 seasons coaching in the NFL, including the last three as the Seahawks' offensive coordinator. He also has seven seasons of experience at the collegiate level and one in the United Football League.

"I appreciate this opportunity given to me by Coach Eberflus and Ryan Poles," Waldron said. "We can't wait to get to work at a franchise with such a storied history and passionate fan base."
In three seasons in Seattle, Waldron's offense ranked third in yards per touch (7.8), third in big plays passing* (110), fourth in big plays rushing* percentage (13.0%), fifth in completion percentage (66.6%), eighth in yards per reception (11.2) and tied for tenth in passing touchdowns (83). The Seahawks' offense also ranked tied for first in turnovers (53), second in interceptions (31) and fifth in interception percentage (1.9%).

*Big plays are defined as runs of 10+ yards and passes of 25+ yards

Last season, Seattle's offense averaged 21.4 points and 322.9 yards per game. Under Waldron's guidance, Seattle quarterback Geno Smith revitalized his NFL career. In 2022, Smith finished the season as the league leader in completion percentage (69.8) and ranked fourth in touchdown passes (30), fifth in passer rating (100.9) and eighth in passing yards (4,282) en route to his first Pro Bowl selection and AP Comeback Player of the Year honors. That same year, Seahawks receivers Tyler Lockett and DK Metcalf both had 1,000-yard seasons.

In Waldron's first season as Seattle's offensive coordinator in 2021, he oversaw the emergence of running back Rashaad Penny as the Seattle rushing attack finished third in the NFL with 5.02 rushing yards per attempt. Both Lockett and Metcalf set career-highs in different receiving categories and Russell Wilson became just the second quarterback in NFL history to record at least 3,000 passing yards and 20 TDs in each of his first 10 seasons.

There may well be other things that were in play.

What I don't think was in play was "Eberflus probably knew exactly what he was doing because if Kingsbury was on staff for a 4-5 start Eberflus might be the one that was sent packing. Bad leaders surround themselves with the weak minded."

With that said, I wasn't there. Maybe in fact you are right and Eberflus really did know Kingsbury would have been much better but chose to hire a lesser OC. We can disagree there.

Ignoring the red flags and negative underpinnings surrounding's Waldron's limited NFL career, all the while highlighting a previous team's continued success as a reason to get your guy over much more qualified candidates is actually the opposite of rational, it's irrational. Short sighted emotional decisions like this are what gets you an OC named Shane Waldron. Chicago screwed the pooch and Eberflus played a big part in it all. At this point I don't even care why if I'm being honest. Eberflus needs to be fired right now, right along with Waldron. He's part of the problem, not the solution, and everyone can see it. He's not cut out for the role he's been given, and the sooner you fire him the better. Each game he coaches is another game wasted in Caleb Williams' development and it will only get worse as Eberflus does everything he can to save face/and his job.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

Does Waldron get some credit for the resurgence of Geno Smith? I don't recall much of his time in Seattle other than Russell wanted him because he came from the McVay tree.

Seahawk fans can answer better than me GB but I'd think he'd have to get some credit.

From the Bears note above:

Last season, Seattle's offense averaged 21.4 points and 322.9 yards per game. Under Waldron's guidance, Seattle quarterback Geno Smith revitalized his NFL career. In 2022, Smith finished the season as the league leader in completion percentage (69.8) and ranked fourth in touchdown passes (30), fifth in passer rating (100.9) and eighth in passing yards (4,282) en route to his first Pro Bowl selection and AP Comeback Player of the Year honors. That same year, Seahawks receivers Tyler Lockett and DK Metcalf both had 1,000-yard seasons.

None of the Geno Smith resurgence matters now, though. This is a what did you do this month league and the Bears have been bad and Waldron is an idiot apparently.

Was it Waldron that contributed to Geno's success or was it the fact Geno got arrested on suspicion of a DUI and he may have finally hit rock bottom and quit drinking the offseason prior to his breakout? Just maybe he started taking his job seriously and was prepared for the opportunity when it came?

Correlation does not equal causation and this type of thinking is why terrible coaches will continue to ride others' coattails to higher level positions they don't deserve. Peter Principle to the max. Groupthink continues to limit the true potential of NFL coaching.