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QB Caleb Williams, CHI (1 Viewer)

He’s definitely going to have to gain that comfort of throwing downfield. He’s got a dynamic WR in Odunze, but rarely targets him despite him being open and instead throws a lot of very short throws to Moore and Allen. Maybe that’s also a function of the poor OL, but you can’t develop an offense that way.
 
He’s definitely going to have to gain that comfort of throwing downfield. He’s got a dynamic WR in Odunze, but rarely targets him despite him being open and instead throws a lot of very short throws to Moore and Allen. Maybe that’s also a function of the poor OL, but you can’t develop an offense that way.
I'm not saying you're wrong but is this true? Even if he's open, if Calebs's got the defense in his jock before he's taken three steps from center, does he have a chance at seeing it?
 
The Vikings have a tough pass D, but Caleb just doesn’t seem to trust himself
I think it's a product of having three OC's. The organization is a train wreck. They have had three top-10 QBs in the last decade and nothing to show for it.
Its certainly been a problem, especially as its not like any of them were considered good.

I'm not super worried about Caleb yet, but obviously you'd like if it'd gone better.

How bad has Caleb Williams been?In terms of accuracy and sack avoidance, it's the worst QB season in recent memory. Worse than any season from Zach Wilson, Bryce Young, or Justin Fields, as impossible as that may seem

Link
While that stat is troubling, I do think Williams has pretty clearly been better than Young was as a rookie or Wilson ever was. He's made some positive plays that rookie Young didn't, and Wilson never did in his career.

I'll forever stand by the argument that Fields was never the problem, even if he also wasn't the solution.
I’ll always believe the Bears downgraded from Fields to Caleb. That move set the franchise back another few years.
As much as I liked Fields, he is inarguably worse than Caleb (year 4 vs year 1) at going through his progressions and seeing the field. Caleb definitely has some bad habits that need to be coached out (footwork, heroball, staying on program), but right now he's a better QB than Fields has ever been.

Caleb might become better, but Fields is currently better. The Bears would most likely have a winning record and be in the playoff hunt right now if they had stuck with Fields, not to mention what they could have done with who knows how many more draft picks.
😂
Caleb is currently a better QB than Fields will ever be. And Caleb has not obviously not been great.

Also it’s a good thing they didn’t trade that pick for a haul because that’s less draft picks for Poles to screw up

I guess we are just doing to have to disagree on that, then again, everyone laughed at me 2 years ago when I suggested Jonnu Smith might be better than Kyle Pitts and we know how that turned out.

Fields beat Detroit twice last year (the loss was on incompetent coaching), and played better without having Keenan Allen or Odunze to throw to.

Anyways, I stand by my point that Fields is better right now, and the Bears could have been a playoff caliber team if they had chosen to build around him. Caleb might be better someday (and might end up being worth the change they made -- it's not looking like it so far), we will have to wait a couple years to see how it actually turns out. Sorry to all the Bears' fans that incompetent coaching and management keeps holding this team back.
 
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Simple questions - Were there reads he was missing? Guys open that he didn't get the ball to?

IMO - That offensive scheme was rancid and they hung their rookie out to dry.

Didn’t watch much & who knows until you see the All 22

But I’ve seen a couple breakdowns of other weeks - it is really hard to decipher what Thomas Brown is trying to accomplish

Ever seen a mesh where 4 guys end up in the same throwing lane? I kid you not. There are no gimme's, easy speed outs or short crossers or wheel route mismatches. Nothing that might get a QB in rhythm & give the offense some confidence.

I know everyone thinks they have a talent deficit along the OL but how would you know? They don’t do anything with motion or wham blocks to take advantage of run fits.

They def have needs on both sides but they also have talent they don’t know how to utilize. But it’s not a super attractive opportunity IMO - the dysfunction at the top permeates. Gonna be challenging to change the culture at Halas Hall.
 
He’s definitely going to have to gain that comfort of throwing downfield. He’s got a dynamic WR in Odunze, but rarely targets him despite him being open and instead throws a lot of very short throws to Moore and Allen. Maybe that’s also a function of the poor OL, but you can’t develop an offense that way.
I'm not saying you're wrong but is this true? Even if he's open, if Calebs's got the defense in his jock before he's taken three steps from center, does he have a chance at seeing it?
I’d have to dig the posts up, but I’ve seen some film nerds on Twitter show several occasions where Rome is open and Caleb has time, but Caleb just checks down. To your point though, if he can’t get comfortable back there, he won’t have time to take it all in.
 
Simple questions - Were there reads he was missing? Guys open that he didn't get the ball to?

IMO - That offensive scheme was rancid and they hung their rookie out to dry.

Didn’t watch much & who knows until you see the All 22

But I’ve seen a couple breakdowns of other weeks - it is really hard to decipher what Thomas Brown is trying to accomplish

Ever seen a mesh where 4 guys end up in the same throwing lane? I kid you not. There are no gimme's, easy speed outs or short crossers or wheel route mismatches. Nothing that might get a QB in rhythm & give the offense some confidence.

I know everyone thinks they have a talent deficit along the OL but how would you know? They don’t do anything with motion or wham blocks to take advantage of run fits.

They def have needs on both sides but they also have talent they don’t know how to utilize. But it’s not a super attractive opportunity IMO - the dysfunction at the top permeates. Gonna be challenging to change the culture at Halas Hall.
I'm not sure Williams trusts Odunze on the more vertical choice routes right now. On one play in particular last night towards the end of the 2nd quarter, Williams threw a nice ball to Odunze who broke off his route and settled when Williams was expecting him to continue the over.

To your point about the offense, this has been a recurring theme for years now. Same crap under Getsy and Waldron. It has been beyond frustrating to watch WRs and TEs continuously fall into the same passing lanes.

The OL does have some talent. Jenkins is solid at G if he can stay on the field. Wright has been a serviceable RT. Braxton Jones wasn't terrible at LT. C and RG have been problematic. Personally, the common link over the last few years of OL woes has been the OL Coach Chris Morgan. The line has never been a cohesive unit with him at the helm.
 
Simple questions - Were there reads he was missing? Guys open that he didn't get the ball to?

IMO - That offensive scheme was rancid and they hung their rookie out to dry.

Didn’t watch much & who knows until you see the All 22

But I’ve seen a couple breakdowns of other weeks - it is really hard to decipher what Thomas Brown is trying to accomplish

Ever seen a mesh where 4 guys end up in the same throwing lane? I kid you not. There are no gimme's, easy speed outs or short crossers or wheel route mismatches. Nothing that might get a QB in rhythm & give the offense some confidence.

I know everyone thinks they have a talent deficit along the OL but how would you know? They don’t do anything with motion or wham blocks to take advantage of run fits.

They def have needs on both sides but they also have talent they don’t know how to utilize. But it’s not a super attractive opportunity IMO - the dysfunction at the top permeates. Gonna be challenging to change the culture at Halas Hall.
I'm not sure Williams trusts Odunze on the more vertical choice routes right now. On one play in particular last night towards the end of the 2nd quarter, Williams threw a nice ball to Odunze who broke off his route and settled when Williams was expecting him to continue the over.

To your point about the offense, this has been a recurring theme for years now. Same crap under Getsy and Waldron. It has been beyond frustrating to watch WRs and TEs continuously fall into the same passing lanes.

The OL does have some talent. Jenkins is solid at G if he can stay on the field. Wright has been a serviceable RT. Braxton Jones wasn't terrible at LT. C and RG have been problematic. Personally, the common link over the last few years of OL woes has been the OL Coach Chris Morgan. The line has never been a cohesive unit with him at the helm.

I thought they would have Odunze playing the X this year like he did college. 13/18 in contested catches going into last night. Rome will develop, def one to build around.

(Unrelated, but curiously the Patriots are using Polk as an X when was always a Z at UDub.)
 
Simple questions - Were there reads he was missing? Guys open that he didn't get the ball to?

IMO - That offensive scheme was rancid and they hung their rookie out to dry.

Didn’t watch much & who knows until you see the All 22

But I’ve seen a couple breakdowns of other weeks - it is really hard to decipher what Thomas Brown is trying to accomplish

Ever seen a mesh where 4 guys end up in the same throwing lane? I kid you not. There are no gimme's, easy speed outs or short crossers or wheel route mismatches. Nothing that might get a QB in rhythm & give the offense some confidence.

I know everyone thinks they have a talent deficit along the OL but how would you know? They don’t do anything with motion or wham blocks to take advantage of run fits.

They def have needs on both sides but they also have talent they don’t know how to utilize. But it’s not a super attractive opportunity IMO - the dysfunction at the top permeates. Gonna be challenging to change the culture at Halas Hall.
I'm not sure Williams trusts Odunze on the more vertical choice routes right now. On one play in particular last night towards the end of the 2nd quarter, Williams threw a nice ball to Odunze who broke off his route and settled when Williams was expecting him to continue the over.

To your point about the offense, this has been a recurring theme for years now. Same crap under Getsy and Waldron. It has been beyond frustrating to watch WRs and TEs continuously fall into the same passing lanes.

The OL does have some talent. Jenkins is solid at G if he can stay on the field. Wright has been a serviceable RT. Braxton Jones wasn't terrible at LT. C and RG have been problematic. Personally, the common link over the last few years of OL woes has been the OL Coach Chris Morgan. The line has never been a cohesive unit with him at the helm.

I thought they would have Odunze playing the X this year like he did college. 13/18 in contested catches going into last night. Rome will develop, def one to build around.

(Unrelated, but curiously the Patriots are using Polk as an X when was always a Z at UDub.)
Odd usage for sure. My only guess is that DJM mainly fills the X and K Allen is the slot guy. But the truth is, I have no idea what's going on in this offense 70% of the time. Kmet's usage has been here there and everywhere. DJM should be the primary Z because of his dynamic playmaking ability, yet here we are. Almost no bunch/trips formations. Very little motion. It's confounding.
 
He has physical gifts for the NFL. I don’t think he is even close to having it between the ears.
This. I still put 95% of the blame on him for that fiasco on Thanksgiving. An NFL Qb needs to be able to call and execute a play in the two minute offense in less then 30 seconds, not force his coach to call a timeout on 3rd and 20 when they HAD to have a FG (and still needed 10-15 yards for that). Eberflus took all the blame, but TBH I didn't think he should have called his last timeout at 32 seconds either. Caleb completes a 10 yard pass over the middle and they would have needed that timeout. But the option to go over the middle would have SIGNIFICANTLY aided completing that 10 yard pass.
 
How great can any QB be when he’s sacked the fourth most often in NFL history?
The bears are running the risk of ruining another QB due to bad coaching.
Guys on Sirius were talking about this and said at least some of it is on Caleb for holding the ball far too long. That line won't be confused with Philly any time soon, but they probably aren't league worst type bad either
 
How great can any QB be when he’s sacked the fourth most often in NFL history?
The bears are running the risk of ruining another QB due to bad coaching.
Guys on Sirius were talking about this and said at least some of it is on Caleb for holding the ball far too long. That line won't be confused with Philly any time soon, but they probably aren't league worst type bad either
No doubt some of it is on Caleb, it’s almost never all one side. I give a little grace for a rookie with crappy coaching.
He might be on the Trevor Lawrence trajectory.
 
He has physical gifts for the NFL. I don’t think he is even close to having it between the ears.
This. I still put 95% of the blame on him for that fiasco on Thanksgiving. An NFL Qb needs to be able to call and execute a play in the two minute offense in less then 30 seconds, not force his coach to call a timeout on 3rd and 20 when they HAD to have a FG (and still needed 10-15 yards for that). Eberflus took all the blame, but TBH I didn't think he should have called his last timeout at 32 seconds either. Caleb completes a 10 yard pass over the middle and they would have needed that timeout. But the option to go over the middle would have SIGNIFICANTLY aided completing that 10 yard pass.
I'll disagree some. All season this team has had awful clock management. The coaches have to reign the rookie qb in when they see things spiraling. Coaches let veteran qbs handle those situations. Caleb hasn't proven that he should get this trust from the coaching staff.
 
He has physical gifts for the NFL. I don’t think he is even close to having it between the ears.
This. I still put 95% of the blame on him for that fiasco on Thanksgiving. An NFL Qb needs to be able to call and execute a play in the two minute offense in less then 30 seconds, not force his coach to call a timeout on 3rd and 20 when they HAD to have a FG (and still needed 10-15 yards for that). Eberflus took all the blame, but TBH I didn't think he should have called his last timeout at 32 seconds either. Caleb completes a 10 yard pass over the middle and they would have needed that timeout. But the option to go over the middle would have SIGNIFICANTLY aided completing that 10 yard pass.
I'll disagree some. All season this team has had awful clock management. The coaches have to reign the rookie qb in when they see things spiraling. Coaches let veteran qbs handle those situations. Caleb hasn't proven that he should get this trust from the coaching staff.
Right. Two things can be true.
A Caleb messed up.
B The coaches should have (1) coached for situations better well ahead of time and (2) intervened when things were going off the rails.
 
It's a Catch 22 for Caleb - he's probably been told to minimize turnovers, which he has, but the result is more sacks.

But if he tries to minimize sacks by taking more risks, there will be more turnovers.

Kobayashi Maru/no win scenario for the young man.

The discussion masks what I think is the real problem, if this offensive scheme was loaded into Madden people would be screaming for their money back because of all the glitches.
 
It's a Catch 22 for Caleb - he's probably been told to minimize turnovers, which he has, but the result is more sacks.

But if he tries to minimize sacks by taking more risks, there will be more turnovers.

Kobayashi Maru/no win scenario for the young man.

The discussion masks what I think is the real problem, if this offensive scheme was loaded into Madden people would be screaming for their money back because of all the glitches.
Then he just needs to cheat; like Captain Kirk or Tom Brady.
 
He has physical gifts for the NFL. I don’t think he is even close to having it between the ears.
This. I still put 95% of the blame on him for that fiasco on Thanksgiving. An NFL Qb needs to be able to call and execute a play in the two minute offense in less then 30 seconds, not force his coach to call a timeout on 3rd and 20 when they HAD to have a FG (and still needed 10-15 yards for that). Eberflus took all the blame, but TBH I didn't think he should have called his last timeout at 32 seconds either. Caleb completes a 10 yard pass over the middle and they would have needed that timeout. But the option to go over the middle would have SIGNIFICANTLY aided completing that 10 yard pass.
I'll disagree some. All season this team has had awful clock management. The coaches have to reign the rookie qb in when they see things spiraling. Coaches let veteran qbs handle those situations. Caleb hasn't proven that he should get this trust from the coaching staff.
Right. Two things can be true.
A Caleb messed up.
B The coaches should have (1) coached for situations better well ahead of time and (2) intervened when things were going off the rails.
The Bears always sign 1st time HCs and it's constantly an issue. Just too cheap to develop their investment at qb correctly.
 
Next Gen Stats
Caleb Williams did not complete a single pass beyond 6 yards downfield until the final drive of regulation in the Bears’ TNF loss to the Seahawks.

🔸 Under 10 AY: 15/17, 107 yards (+4.5% CPOE)
🔸 Over 10 AY: 1/9, 15 yards, INT (-27.2% CPOE)

#SEAvsCHI | #DaBears
 
How great can any QB be when he’s sacked the fourth most often in NFL history?
The bears are running the risk of ruining another QB due to bad coaching.
yeah, bad coaching, but even worse..... bad line play.

together that is a bad combination. Admittedly, I thought the Bears line would perform better than it has. It was tough for me at times to watch that last game because someone was in his face on an awful lot of the plays.
 
He has physical gifts for the NFL. I don’t think he is even close to having it between the ears.
This. I still put 95% of the blame on him for that fiasco on Thanksgiving. An NFL Qb needs to be able to call and execute a play in the two minute offense in less then 30 seconds, not force his coach to call a timeout on 3rd and 20 when they HAD to have a FG (and still needed 10-15 yards for that). Eberflus took all the blame, but TBH I didn't think he should have called his last timeout at 32 seconds either. Caleb completes a 10 yard pass over the middle and they would have needed that timeout. But the option to go over the middle would have SIGNIFICANTLY aided completing that 10 yard pass.
I'll disagree some. All season this team has had awful clock management. The coaches have to reign the rookie qb in when they see things spiraling. Coaches let veteran qbs handle those situations. Caleb hasn't proven that he should get this trust from the coaching staff.
TBH, if a QB can't do this, he isn't ready to be on the field.
 
OH...BTW not saying Eberflus didn't deserve to be canned, in large part due to his work (or lack of work) with Caleb, was saying that that specific situation was on CAleb, not the coach.
 
Just too cheap to develop their investment at qb correctly
this could be true and/or they just end up drafting bad ones but during the game there was that graphic that showed that the Bears just fire their coaches all the time. They are very fickle and a lack of stability. After Cutler there's just been a carousel. Now maybe Barkley and Trubisky weren't that good but I think they could have likely won with Feilds. I guess I can understand the argument that after X years you can tell if this QB or this coach will pan out but at the same time that lack of stability isn't helping.
 
Just too cheap to develop their investment at qb correctly
this could be true and/or they just end up drafting bad ones but during the game there was that graphic that showed that the Bears just fire their coaches all the time. They are very fickle and a lack of stability. After Cutler there's just been a carousel. Now maybe Barkley and Trubisky weren't that good but I think they could have likely won with Feilds. I guess I can understand the argument that after X years you can tell if this QB or this coach will pan out but at the same time that lack of stability isn't helping.
They do it backwards. They draft a qb to go
With a HC that is coaching for his job. It's hard to develop a qb if the HC needs wins. This was the year to hire a new HC to go along with a new qb, one that can coach up for 2-3 years.
 
He has physical gifts for the NFL. I don’t think he is even close to having it between the ears.
This. I still put 95% of the blame on him for that fiasco on Thanksgiving. An NFL Qb needs to be able to call and execute a play in the two minute offense in less then 30 seconds, not force his coach to call a timeout on 3rd and 20 when they HAD to have a FG (and still needed 10-15 yards for that). Eberflus took all the blame, but TBH I didn't think he should have called his last timeout at 32 seconds either. Caleb completes a 10 yard pass over the middle and they would have needed that timeout. But the option to go over the middle would have SIGNIFICANTLY aided completing that 10 yard pass.
I'll disagree some. All season this team has had awful clock management. The coaches have to reign the rookie qb in when they see things spiraling. Coaches let veteran qbs handle those situations. Caleb hasn't proven that he should get this trust from the coaching staff.
TBH, if a QB can't do this, he isn't ready to be on the field.
In a salary cap league, teams don't have that luxury anymore. Even more important to have a coaching staff with a clue, and not waste TO's on frivolous challenges.
 
If they don’t fix that OL Williams doesn’t have a snowball chance in hell.

Actually, the line doesn't grade nearly as bad as they are made out to be here, below average sure, but it's mostly Caleb. Certainly the whole offensive scheme isn't helping anything either.
 
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If they don’t fix that OL Williams doesn’t have a snowball chance in hell.

Actually, the line doesn't grade nearly as bad as they are made out to be here, below average sure, but it's mostly Caleb. Certainly the whole offensive scheme isn't helping anything either.
I haven't watched many bears games, but my eyes told me otherwise against the seahawks. He didn't have a chance in that game, even with the mobility he showed.
 
The Bears were very disfunctional this year. This recent reporting about Waldron really takes the cake.
It was apparent that when Thomas Brown took over the offense after Waldron was let go by the Bears, that his one-on-one time with Williams was the most he had with a coach in the NFL. The Making Monsters podcast by 2nd City Gridiron with Taylor Doll revealed another ripple in the relationship between Waldron and Williams.

“He built his own film study room because Shane Waldron was not going over film with him,” Doll said.
Williams taking this initiative to go out of his way to study more film on his own is a great sign for the type of player that he is going to be for the Bears organization. However, the hiring of Waldron becomes even more questioning if this is truly the case in him not wanting to study film with his young franchise quarterback.
 
The Bears were very disfunctional this year. This recent reporting about Waldron really takes the cake.
It was apparent that when Thomas Brown took over the offense after Waldron was let go by the Bears, that his one-on-one time with Williams was the most he had with a coach in the NFL. The Making Monsters podcast by 2nd City Gridiron with Taylor Doll revealed another ripple in the relationship between Waldron and Williams.

“He built his own film study room because Shane Waldron was not going over film with him,” Doll said.
Williams taking this initiative to go out of his way to study more film on his own is a great sign for the type of player that he is going to be for the Bears organization. However, the hiring of Waldron becomes even more questioning if this is truly the case in him not wanting to study film with his young franchise quarterback.
so bizarre, like your job is the OC and you're not going over film with your rookie QB, what exactly was he doing then
 
The Bears were very disfunctional this year. This recent reporting about Waldron really takes the cake.
It was apparent that when Thomas Brown took over the offense after Waldron was let go by the Bears, that his one-on-one time with Williams was the most he had with a coach in the NFL. The Making Monsters podcast by 2nd City Gridiron with Taylor Doll revealed another ripple in the relationship between Waldron and Williams.

“He built his own film study room because Shane Waldron was not going over film with him,” Doll said.
Williams taking this initiative to go out of his way to study more film on his own is a great sign for the type of player that he is going to be for the Bears organization. However, the hiring of Waldron becomes even more questioning if this is truly the case in him not wanting to study film with his young franchise quarterback.
so bizarre, like your job is the OC and you're not going over film with your rookie QB, what exactly was he doing then
Working on his Ditka impression.
 
Y’all seent this?

Kinda makes me want to root against him a little bit tbh. And his father - yikes.


I mean, good for Caleb for putting his best foot forward and playing for the Bears and all. This looks to me like a team putting all the pieces in place to ensure Caleb’s success. I just don’t often see players headed to the draft with this level of… arrogance seems like the right word? Eli Manning, maybe, but I didn’t love that situation either.
 
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Y’all seent this?

Kinda makes me want to root against him a little bit tbh. And his father - yikes.


I mean, good for Caleb for putting his best foot forward and playing for the Bears and all. This looks to me like a team putting all the pieces in place to ensure Caleb’s success. I just don’t often see players headed to the draft with this level of… arrogance seems like the right word? Peyton Manning, maybe, but I didn’t love that situation either.
I get that view but devil's advocate was he wrong? Bears were a dumpster fire last year.
 
I get that view but devil's advocate was he wrong? Bears were a dumpster fire last year.
Yeah, I can see that but it still comes off as very entitled and arrogant & kinda rubs me the wrong way. Maybe I’m a different generation.
I see it the exact opposite way. I see it as Caleb has a good head on his shoulders despite his dad's terrible advice.
 
I get that view but devil's advocate was he wrong? Bears were a dumpster fire last year.
Yeah, I can see that but it still comes off as very entitled and arrogant & kinda rubs me the wrong way. Maybe I’m a different generation.
I see it the exact opposite way. I see it as Caleb has a good head on his shoulders despite his dad's terrible advice.
I am along @travdogg line of thinking. Should his words to his father's ever seen the light of day? I am sure we have all had concerns about decisions in life. Caleb has done nothing short since walking out on that stage of being 100% Chicago Bears through and through. He might have preferred other destinations, but he's been a professional about the decision.
 
I see it the exact opposite way. I see it as Caleb has a good head on his shoulders despite his dad's terrible advice.
I mean, that’s not opposite. I gave him credit, clearly.

But that’s because he came around to that position. He was not of that position headed into the draft.

That’s the part I thought was a little arrogant.

But yeah his dad sucks.
 
I am along @travdogg line of thinking. Should his words to his father's ever seen the light of day? I am sure we have all had concerns about decisions in life. Caleb has done nothing short since walking out on that stage of being 100% Chicago Bears through and through. He might have preferred other destinations, but he's been a professional about the decision.
Yes, I agree also - I was speaking towards his attitude before he came around.

Sorry if that was unclear.

ETA: Also, it sounds like Caleb was making that point known in pre-draft interviews - unless I misread that?
 

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