QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (2 Viewers)

[Bracie Smathers]

My point is simple.  The Texans must have suspected a simple pay-for-sex scenario ...

I think this is quite a leap and very difficult to prove.

Leap of faith?  

Some kept saying the reason the Texans gave Watson NDAs because they knew he was a bad actor and then added they must have known he was doing exactly what he hadn't been accused of years ago.

I thought THAT was a leap of faith, yet you didn't question that statement yet challenge a much more reasonable scenario.

If the Texans provide NDAs for ALL players seeking massages and provide hotel suites for ALL players seeking legitimate massages outside of team facilities, then it would be 'normal' standard operating procedure and you could make a reasonable argument that the team or player didn't wish to disclose an injury or some embarrassing aspect of the massage.  

The Texans first provided the hotel suite.  Watson kept getting massages and never asked for an NDA so it wasn't him seeking the NDA, the Texans felt compelled to give them to him and told him to have the women sign.

Once again, if ALL players seeking massages are given NDAs then it is SOP.  If ALL players are provided hotel suites off of team facilities to get massages, then it is SOP.  If Watson were seeking a legitimate massage at a hotel suite provided by the Texans and it was SOP to provide NDAs they failed to do so until they 'suspected' something was not legit about the massages.

I thought the leap of faith was when people kept saying they knew years ago of the allegations which I think is a massive leap of faith when the simple answer would be that they must have thought he was simply seeking pay for sex which is common and illegal, and the Texans would have been culpable so that is why I suggested they provided NDAs in order to cover their and Watson's butts.

As far as difficult to prove.  I don't care.  It is the more reasonable reason as to why the Texans decided to approach Watson with a handful of NDA agreements and also coach him to make sure the women sign then before providing 'legitimate' massages at a hotel suite the team furnished.

Not going to go over this point AGAIN.  This thread sucks and is boring as hell.   

 

[Soulfly3]

This thread sucks and is boring as hell.   

Because no one wants to budge from their position. They're either a SJW that wants Watson fried, or a sex-pest apologist. 

If you lean even slighty towards one direction, you get placed as an extremist. 

So, I ask again... O/U 300yds in week 1?

 

[BobbyLayne]

This thread sucks and is boring as hell.

Eventually we might talk about football in here. Heard he looked great in OTAs and minicamp.

6-8 games seem the likely length of a suspension? Unless it's a full year he reports to TC and his late round, afterthought ADP will start rising. QB4, QB4 and QB5 his last 3 seasons. I normally don't draft a backup QB but Watson paired with say a QB 11-15 guy like Stafford, Rodgers, Cousins or Carr seems like a winner.

• T1 - Allen, Herbert, Holmes, Jackson - expensive, 3rd to 5th round, no thanks
  
• T2 - Murray, Hurts, Burrow, Brady, Prescott, Wilson - rounds 6 to 8 in most redraft leagues
  
• T3 - the four guys I mentioned plus Lance, who probably doesn't start Week 1 if they don't move Jimmy
  

Obviously once a ruling comes out then getting him Round 12-14 seems less likely. Hopkins is sitting out the first 6 and going in the 8th/9th rn, so I imagine Watson will be a mid-round pick (9th to 11th?); he won't be anyone's choice for their QB1 but how early is too early?

 

[daveR]

You mean if Watson claims that the PCP isn't being applied in an even manner when it comes to old white owners/front office executives vs young black QB's.  That narrative that you keep on insisting doesn't exist, but all it takes is a jilted black QB who feels done wrong by the NFL's version of justice to stir the pot of racial discrimination.  I mean, why do you think he would sue.

I think the reason for suing is that specific acts of violence are spelled out in the PCP and, if leaks are true, the NFL failed to produce evidence of said acts to the arbitrator. If so, there is no basis for suspension.  This means they violated the CBA and the NFLPA has a basis for suing.  $.02 more:  This is why the delay, to give them a chance to negotiate something because the judge recognizes she must rule no violation.  I can see them saving face by incorporating 2021 into the final decision.

 

[-OZ-]

I think the reason for suing is that specific acts of violence are spelled out in the PCP and, if leaks are true, the NFL failed to produce evidence of said acts to the arbitrator. If so, there is no basis for suspension.  This means they violated the CBA and the NFLPA has a basis for suing.  $.02 more:  This is why the delay, to give them a chance to negotiate something because the judge recognizes she must rule no violation.  I can see them saving face by incorporating 2021 into the final decision.

If the judge finds no threatening behavior toward another employee or a third party in any workplace setting; harassment, or similar forms of intimidation; or Conduct that poses a genuine danger to the safety and well-being of another person; and still rules to discipline, and it’s upheld after appeal, I hope they do sue. 

 

[Gally]

Leap of faith?  

Some kept saying the reason the Texans gave Watson NDAs because they knew he was a bad actor and then added they must have known he was doing exactly what he hadn't been accused of years ago.

I thought THAT was a leap of faith, yet you didn't question that statement yet challenge a much more reasonable scenario.

If the Texans provide NDAs for ALL players seeking massages and provide hotel suites for ALL players seeking legitimate massages outside of team facilities, then it would be 'normal' standard operating procedure and you could make a reasonable argument that the team or player didn't wish to disclose an injury or some embarrassing aspect of the massage.  

The Texans first provided the hotel suite.  Watson kept getting massages and never asked for an NDA so it wasn't him seeking the NDA, the Texans felt compelled to give them to him and told him to have the women sign.

Once again, if ALL players seeking massages are given NDAs then it is SOP.  If ALL players are provided hotel suites off of team facilities to get massages, then it is SOP.  If Watson were seeking a legitimate massage at a hotel suite provided by the Texans and it was SOP to provide NDAs they failed to do so until they 'suspected' something was not legit about the massages.

I thought the leap of faith was when people kept saying they knew years ago of the allegations which I think is a massive leap of faith when the simple answer would be that they must have thought he was simply seeking pay for sex which is common and illegal, and the Texans would have been culpable so that is why I suggested they provided NDAs in order to cover their and Watson's butts.

As far as difficult to prove.  I don't care.  It is the more reasonable reason as to why the Texans decided to approach Watson with a handful of NDA agreements and also coach him to make sure the women sign then before providing 'legitimate' massages at a hotel suite the team furnished.

Not going to go over this point AGAIN.  This thread sucks and is boring as hell.   

I don't recall seeing  anything about people knowing  years ago.  My only point is the simple act of booking an outside place for a player to use and providing NDA's without any context for the request seems reasonable on the surface with no other tangible evidence (after the fact he said-she said accounts not being tangible for the Texans).  Now if there are other circumstances as part of the request to the Texans showing they should have known nefarious things taking place that is a different story.  My one an only point is that the NDA and booking the place on its own means nothing.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I was just wondering - do you think there is any woman out there, who has not come forward yet, who has a smoking gun, i.e. audio or video clip?

I suspect at least a couple of the remaining women who didn’t settle do. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

• T3 - the four guys I mentioned plus Lance, who probably doesn't start Week 1 if they don't move Jimmy
  

JimmyG could grow a 3rd, much stronger arm before Minicamp and Lance would still start.  

 

[Obie Wan]

so, O/U 300yds week 1?

OVER

 

[beer 30]

O/U 300yds in week 1?

UNDER but you need to clarify what week 1? The official week 1 of the NFL season or week 1 of when he comes back? I'm saying under for the official week 1 start of the season.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

UNDER but you need to clarify what week 1? The official week 1 of the NFL season or week 1 of when he comes back? I'm saying under for the official week 1 start of the season.

Week 1, 2023

 

[beer 30]

Week 1, 2023

Then OVER   #GOBROWNS

 

[Soulfly3]

week 1 as in week 1. there is only one week 1. 2022.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

week 1 as in week 1. there is only one week 1. 2022.

Under. 

0 < 1, right? 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Brady served a 4-game suspension for breaking wind...sorry, letting the air out of the football. 

-Watson might get 2 games or less with 20+ women claiming sexual harassment, sexual predator, disturbing behavior pattern...I'm a little surprised to see such a light suspension being tossed around   

Maybe the more emotional side of the media doesn't care as much as I had anticipated. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Brady served a 4-game suspension for breaking wind...sorry, letting the air out of the football. 

-Watson might get 2 games or less with 20+ women claiming sexual harassment, sexual predator, disturbing behavior pattern...I'm a little surprised to see such a light suspension being tossed around   

Maybe the more emotional side of the media doesn't care as much as I had anticipated. 

Who’s tossing around light suspensions? Only ones I see doing that are in this topic.

Last I heard, Goodell/NFL is seeking indefinite suspension. 

Now we wait.  

 

[Soulfly3]

Who’s tossing around light suspensions? Only ones I see doing that are in this topic.

Nope

Cowherd also said based on his "sources" and general chatter, he's hearing low #s as well. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Nope

Cowherd also said based on his "sources" and general chatter, he's hearing low #s as well. 

Your 1st mistake was listening to a single word out Of Colin Cowherd’s  mouth.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

Your 1st mistake was listening to a single word out Of Colin Cowherd’s  mouth.

Could you please explain to these highly paid legal minds that professional sports leagues and 9-figure net worth athletes retain for legal services that this is false equivalence?  For the 37th time.  Like you have me. Thanks.

One of the strongest arguments on Watson’s behalf comes from the plain language of the policy: “Ownership and club or league management have traditionally been held to a higher standard and will be subject to more significant discipline.”

At the hearing, the NFLPA focused on owners who either weren’t punished at all or whose punishments require a player like Watson to receive a lesser sanction. Since the hearing, the Texans have settled 30 claims against them specifically for their alleged role in Watson’s alleged sexual misconduct.

 

[Obie Wan]

week 1 as in week 1. there is only one week 1. 2022.

over game 1

time served from 2021, 

no 2022 suspension

 

[TheWinz]

time served from 2021

Why don't they just suspend him for 20 years, and call it time served from 1996 to 2016?  He didn't play a single NFL game during this time either.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Brady served a 4-game suspension for breaking wind...sorry, letting the air out of the football. 

-Watson might get 2 games or less with 20+ women claiming sexual harassment, sexual predator, disturbing behavior pattern...I'm a little surprised to see such a light suspension being tossed around

Allegations mean literally nothing. What matters is evidence presented at the hearing.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Why don't they just suspend him for 20 years, and call it time served from 1996 to 2016?  He didn't play a single NFL game during this time either.

Yes, there's no such thing as "time served" because he didn't serve any time. The league literally can't withhold any 2021 game checks from Watson since he's already cashed them. (And the CBA gives the league no right to claw them back.) The league can withhold 2022 game checks from him, but in that case he won't play in those games, which is what a suspension is. So if there is a suspension, it will be in 2022 at the earliest.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Nope

Cowherd also said based on his "sources" and general chatter, he's hearing low #s as well. 

Thanks for continuing to post up in here along with several other Browns' fans. Watson's actions and behavior have absolutely nothing to do with the great fans of Cleveland. The city has not exactly gone out of their way to welcome him, think most of the local fans in Cleveland are taking a wait and see approach. 

Tough spot for the fans to be put in waiting to see the outcome or suspension. 

 

[Bri]

His lawyers have set the NFL up well including the release to the press that they will possibly sue the NFL.

There's so many twists that aren't big stretches with the owners. What's good for the goose....

The time served is a wonderful setup. It isn't wholly true but he did not play and the former coach has said he (coach) decided so, it was best for the organization.

Watson did mouth off about the new GM in January and say he wouldn't play but ...such is life, he had turned almost numb to so much BS by the summer that the former coach said Watson was relatively professional and easy going like a man "taking his lumps." 

For court, he actually looks pretty decent in this sole light where others would be kicking and screaming and crying about it. 

Soooo after that and all this press for about another year he could properly (with an attorney doing it) scream injustice and persecution while Snyder is avoiding a Congressional hearing. 

Who looks worse? The guy taking his lumps and speaking through an attorney using the legal system OR the guy running to another country avoiding Congress? 

I don't care to know the details of the Vikings party boat, what sexual misconduct NFL players have done, at least one of the owners with prostitutes, another with an illegitimate child, and another treating cheerleaders like "pieces of meat" rather than women, but...wow wow wow his lawyer set the NFL up well.

We have seen countless advertisers drop huge contracts if they get associated with a bad name and...the NFL has to be scared of that collateral damage here too. What if his lawyer's mud sticks to Pepsi or Budweiser or whatever the biggest advertisers are? 

On Sirrius, they also talked of the revenue the Browns had gained since Baker came and wondered if those companies continue to sponsor.

In Houston they had Watt and Clowney and Nuk but due to timing, Watson's been like the last straw sort of star to leave. How are there ads with Davis at QB and a rebuilding losing team with another new coach?

The NFL is rrrrreally setup here and it sure looked like they had all the leverage not too long ago

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

His lawyers have set the NFL up well including the release to the press that they will possibly sue the NFL.

There's so many twists that aren't big stretches with the owners. What's good for the goose....

The time served is a wonderful setup. It isn't wholly true but he did not play and the former coach has said he (coach) decided so, it was best for the organization.

Watson did mouth off about the new GM in January and say he wouldn't play but ...such is life, he had turned almost numb to so much BS by the summer that the former coach said Watson was relatively professional and easy going like a man "taking his lumps." 

For court, he actually looks pretty decent in this sole light where others would be kicking and screaming and crying about it. 

Soooo after that and all this press for about another year he could properly (with an attorney doing it) scream injustice and persecution while Snyder is avoiding a Congressional hearing. 

Who looks worse? The guy taking his lumps and speaking through an attorney using the legal system OR the guy running to another country avoiding Congress? 

I don't care to know the details of the Vikings party boat, what sexual misconduct NFL players have done, at least one of the owners with prostitutes, another with an illegitimate child, and another treating cheerleaders like "pieces of meat" rather than women, but...wow wow wow his lawyer set the NFL up well.

We have seen countless advertisers drop huge contracts if they get associated with a bad name and...the NFL has to be scared of that collateral damage here too. What if his lawyer's mud sticks to Pepsi or Budweiser or whatever the biggest advertisers are? 

On Sirrius, they also talked of the revenue the Browns had gained since Baker came and wondered if those companies continue to sponsor.

In Houston they had Watt and Clowney and Nuk but due to timing, Watson's been like the last straw sort of star to leave. How are there ads with Davis at QB and a rebuilding losing team with another new coach?

The NFL is rrrrreally setup here and it sure looked like they had all the leverage not too long ago

They still have all the leverage. It’s their league. It’s a monopoly. They do whatever they want.

That includes suspending Watson. And team Watson threatening to sue is purely a PR move. I extremely doubt it moved the needle with either the NFL, Goodell, or the judge who’s entrusted to hand out punishment commensurate with whatever evidence they have that Watson violated the PCP.

Nothing else matters. It’s all talk radio bluster.

Suing would be the dumbest move possible due to Watson’s contract. If he’s indeed going to “take his lumps” that means serving a 2022 suspension, and hoping beyond hope that anyone else he touched with his junk doesn’t spring out of the woodwork to further cause chaos & bad press.

He barely loses anything. Then he comes back in 2023 to a king’s ransom & a fresh start.

All suing will do would be to drag this out for more time, with more publicity, and more money lost contractually.

Plus the little elephant in the room called “discovery”. As I understand it, all the ugly evidence that the DA allegedly failed to show the GJ would be made available to the NFL attorneys. Suing the NFL is making the claim that Watson absolutely did not do anything afoul of the PCP. As such, the NFL then gets the opportunity to show what evidence they have. 

It would likely backfire spectacularly.

Team Watson would be wise to take the 8 games / full season. Economically speaking it’s the best decision they can make due to the nature of the contract.

IMO it’s an empty threat aimed purely at the sports media for public consumption. 

 

[daveR]

They still have all the leverage. It’s their league. It’s a monopoly. They do whatever they want.

Sure seems that way, at times.  But, as we're seeing in the Snyder fiasco, they're still constrained by the laws of the land, and in this case, contract law and the CBA.

 

[apalmer]

They still have all the leverage. It’s their league. It’s a monopoly. They do whatever they want.

That includes suspending Watson. And team Watson threatening to sue is purely a PR move. I extremely doubt it moved the needle with either the NFL, Goodell, or the judge who’s entrusted to hand out punishment commensurate with whatever evidence they have that Watson violated the PCP.

Nothing else matters. It’s all talk radio bluster.

Suing would be the dumbest move possible due to Watson’s contract. If he’s indeed going to “take his lumps” that means serving a 2022 suspension, and hoping beyond hope that anyone else he touched with his junk doesn’t spring out of the woodwork to further cause chaos & bad press.

He barely loses anything. Then he comes back in 2023 to a king’s ransom & a fresh start.

All suing will do would be to drag this out for more time, with more publicity, and more money lost contractually.

Plus the little elephant in the room called “discovery”. As I understand it, all the ugly evidence that the DA allegedly failed to show the GJ would be made available to the NFL attorneys. Suing the NFL is making the claim that Watson absolutely did not do anything afoul of the PCP. As such, the NFL then gets the opportunity to show what evidence they have. 

It would likely backfire spectacularly.

Team Watson would be wise to take the 8 games / full season. Economically speaking it’s the best decision they can make due to the nature of the contract.

IMO it’s an empty threat aimed purely at the sports media for public consumption. 

Yeah, I don't get the "I'll go to court and get an injunction so I can play this year for $1 million. That way, if I win and get a shorter suspension, I'll serve it next year and miss the games when I'll lose $2.5 million or so for each one."

 

[TheWinz]

Yeah, I don't get the "I'll go to court and get an injunction so I can play this year for $1 million. That way, if I win and get a shorter suspension, I'll serve it next year and miss the games when I'll lose $2.5 million or so for each one."

Remember though, in DeShaun's eyes, he is 100% innocent.  He doesn't even remember getting massages.  It must've been his evil twin, DePraved.  Not only does he not deserve any suspension, the entire world owes him an apology.

* yes, I know it's Deshaun, but the capital looked better for my story

 

[MAC_32]

Haha I just lost all of my interesting in coming to this thread before reading you say the same thing. It's mind-numbing. I'll check back to watch the ####-show when something actually happens.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like this happens with some topic every July. When this wasn't Friday afternoon news dumped July 1 it was inevitable this subject would be the one to suffer from fatigue this year. 

 

[MAC_32]

Thanks for continuing to post up in here along with several other Browns' fans. Watson's actions and behavior have absolutely nothing to do with the great fans of Cleveland. The city has not exactly gone out of their way to welcome him, think most of the local fans in Cleveland are taking a wait and see approach. 

Tough spot for the fans to be put in waiting to see the outcome or suspension. 

Like most topics there are the vocal extremes on each end with a much larger swath in between that is relatively silent. This is generally the case both locally and on a national scale. The focus inevitably goes to the extremes because those opinions are the ones that are profitable. I'm rarely in my car for more than 10 mins at a time and you can hear the exhaustion in our local sports talk guys on this subject who are just feeding their profit centers based on what their corporate overlords demand. I assume the dynamic is similar nationally, but it's not something I've sought out recently.

Maybe it's just me and my bubble, but no matter what circle I'm in that day we all talk about lots of other stuff and when this subject has come up it's in the form of a one line zinger - whether it's in poor taste or not probably depends how much alcohol has been involved - then we all move on. I can only think of 2 such occasions this subject has gone on much more than that and in each case it's been of a 'he has a fetish and they know what they were getting into' manner...and in each instance that message stemmed from a female. Do I agree with them? In at least some cases probably, but I'd be very surprised if it's all of them. Anecdotally I thought that was interesting though.

I've not gotten any tough spot vibes though. I think that may change if this lingers into August (I don't think it will), but it seems most in the area have other priorities right now - as we do every summer. But again...maybe it's just me and my various suburban bubbles. Those make up a large percentage of this area though.

 

[Obie Wan]

Yeah, I don't get the "I'll go to court and get an injunction so I can play this year for $1 million. That way, if I win and get a shorter suspension, I'll serve it next year and miss the games when I'll lose $2.5 million or so for each one."

maybe his suit will ask for much more

and the outcome could threaten the entire NFL discipline procedure, due to the manner in which it is enforced unequally, haphazardly, and possibly in a discriminatory way

he could get one of those judges acting on human emotion

 

[panhead55]

What evidence are we aware of? We know there are a couple text messages where Watson apologizes for behavior, but without specifics. We know hotel rooms were rented for the massages and we know the Texans provided Watson with NDAs. We know Watson had "massages" with 66 or more different masseuses. What other evidence do we have?

We know that there are a couple accusations of either the alleged pulling of the woman's head towards his penis and the unwanted touching of the masseuse with his penis. I believe those allegations are without evidence.

Allegedly Watson covered his groin with hand towel instead of a regular sized towel. If the massage therapist enters the room and finds only a hand towel covering Watson, it seems to me she has some choices. She can request a full sized towel or walk out of the room. If Watson declines the large towel request and the masseuse initiates the massage anyway, is that a form of consent by the masseuse?

Given all we know from the allegations and the number of civil suits, it paints Watson as a very perverted individual. I don't think anyone is in disagreement about his perversion. 

The NFL can certainly claim he violated the PCP by soliciting sex, but that would bring a real can of worms to the NFL, especially with Kraft's behavior. The PCP says nothing about solicitation and is more about violence.

Can the NFL suspend Watson because his reputation is so tarnished? Given the number of allegations, I believe Watson committed some illegal acts above and beyond solicitation. I haven't seen any evidence though. Can the NFL justify suspension based on public opinion?

We will know soon enough.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Sure seems that way, at times.  But, as we're seeing in the Snyder fiasco, they're still constrained by the laws of the land, and in this case, contract law and the CBA.

The latter more so than the former. For a player Vs an owner. 

 

[Obie Wan]

What evidence are we aware of? We know there are a couple text messages where Watson apologizes for behavior, but without specifics. We know hotel rooms were rented for the massages and we know the Texans provided Watson with NDAs. We know Watson had "massages" with 66 or more different masseuses. What other evidence do we have?

We know that there are a couple accusations of either the alleged pulling of the woman's head towards his penis and the unwanted touching of the masseuse with his penis. I believe those allegations are without evidence.

Allegedly Watson covered his groin with hand towel instead of a regular sized towel. If the massage therapist enters the room and finds only a hand towel covering Watson, it seems to me she has some choices. She can request a full sized towel or walk out of the room. If Watson declines the large towel request and the masseuse initiates the massage anyway, is that a form of consent by the masseuse?

Given all we know from the allegations and the number of civil suits, it paints Watson as a very perverted individual. I don't think anyone is in disagreement about his perversion. 

The NFL can certainly claim he violated the PCP by soliciting sex, but that would bring a real can of worms to the NFL, especially with Kraft's behavior. The PCP says nothing about solicitation and is more about violence.

Can the NFL suspend Watson because his reputation is so tarnished? Given the number of allegations, I believe Watson committed some illegal acts above and beyond solicitation. I haven't seen any evidence though. Can the NFL justify suspension based on public opinion?

We will know soon enough.

evidence??     no court documents have been released, so everything remains allegations, greatly enhanced by speculation.

Your point about these "therapists" consenting to proceed after effective notice of what's to come,  is probably the lynchpin for why Robinson will issue 0 game suspension. 

She's been closely following HSG's obsession with consent, but decides they all consented 

 

[daveR]

Here's a tangent that has me thinking...  I am guessing that the NFL wants nothing to do with policing the sexual escapades of their 2000+ players and employees, which I suspect spawned the whole PCP / arbitrator clause.  Going forward, I can see a situation where they do nothing more than fine a team and the teams have to mete out discipline.  The teams would probably need to include standard language in players' contracts.  It's passing the buck, but I wouldn't be surprised. They would be rid of the "no conviction" conundrum. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Your point about these "therapists" consenting to proceed after effective notice of what's to come,  is probably the lynchpin for why Robinson will issue 0 game suspension. 

She's been closely following HSG's obsession with consent, but decides they all consented 

Wut

i have no idea what any of this means. 
1. why is “therapists” in quotes? Are you suggesting they’re actually not therapists? That seems to be the implication. 

2. How are you establishing consent here, exactly? A thing happened. They did not consent to it. They joined a class action suit over it. 

3. again - you’re taking a straw man argument that these women consented (which is news to me, since last I checked they pursued criminal & civil litigation over it) and saying that’s the basis for Sue Robinson to issue 0 games while the NFL is reportedly pursuing a significant penalty.

Please, make this make sense. Because the post I quoted doesn’t. At all. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Here's a tangent that has me thinking...  I am guessing that the NFL wants nothing to do with policing the sexual escapades of their 2000+ players and employees, which I suspect spawned the whole PCP / arbitrator clause.  Going forward, I can see a situation where they do nothing more than fine a team and the teams have to mete out discipline.  The teams would probably need to include standard language in players' contracts.  It's passing the buck, but I wouldn't be surprised. They would be rid of the "no conviction" conundrum. 

It’s an interesting thought. I would have thought they would have done this after the Roethlisburger situation. 

 

[bro1ncos]

2. How are you establishing consent here, exactly? A thing happened. They did not consent to it. They joined a class action suit over it. 

This is what doesn't make sense to me and maybe I am just being obtuse. 

How does a person ejaculate on someone without their consent. Unless the massage therapist was asleep or had their back to Watson, I don't see how they don't see this coming and get out of there. Unless DeShaun is the "quickest gun in Houston" isn't there a typical buildup to the final show? Why stay around once he exposes himself? 

I haven't followed this story as closely as some in here, but if there is no claim or evidence of DeShaun physically restraining the women and forcing them to stay in the room, how do they claim there wasn't some level of implied consent by remaining present?

And don't take me wrong and think I am saying they wanted this to happen, but it seems like they would have had a chance to leave before things progressed to this level. 

 

[menobrown]

I haven't followed this story as closely as some in here, but if there is no claim or evidence of DeShaun physically restraining the women and forcing them to stay in the room, how do they claim there wasn't some level of implied consent by remaining present?

In the words of one of the detectives in the case, when power and influence are in the room then consent can not be.

That's her words. I personally and absolutely reject that notion but you wanted to know how the claim was made and this is it.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Yeah, I don't get the "I'll go to court and get an injunction so I can play this year for $1 million. That way, if I win and get a shorter suspension, I'll serve it next year and miss the games when I'll lose $2.5 million or so for each one."

If he's suspended for a full season, his contract may be tolled during 2022, in which case he'd play for $1 million in 2023 and then become a free agent a year later than otherwise. In that case, I don't see what he has to lose (other than attorneys' fees) by going to court.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Plus the little elephant in the room called “discovery”. As I understand it, all the ugly evidence that the DA allegedly failed to show the GJ would be made available to the NFL attorneys. Suing the NFL is making the claim that Watson absolutely did not do anything afoul of the PCP. As such, the NFL then gets the opportunity to show what evidence they have.

Anything not submitted into evidence at the NFL hearing would be irrelevant and not discoverable, IMO.

(Also, suing the NFL is not making the claim that Watson did not violate the PCP. It's making the claim that his punishment exceeded the scope of the league's authority under the CBA and PCP given the evidence submitted at his hearing.)

 

[ghostguy123]

This is what doesn't make sense to me and maybe I am just being obtuse. 

How does a person ejaculate on someone without their consent. Unless the massage therapist was asleep or had their back to Watson, I don't see how they don't see this coming and get out of there. Unless DeShaun is the "quickest gun in Houston" isn't there a typical buildup to the final show? Why stay around once he exposes himself? 

I haven't followed this story as closely as some in here, but if there is no claim or evidence of DeShaun physically restraining the women and forcing them to stay in the room, how do they claim there wasn't some level of implied consent by remaining present?

And don't take me wrong and think I am saying they wanted this to happen, but it seems like they would have had a chance to leave before things progressed to this level. 

I work in a place where I have seen this happen, so yeah, it happens.

I wouldn't say you are obtuse.  I may not have believed it till I saw it, but I saw it, so I believe it.

 

[Obie Wan]

In the words of one of the detectives in the case, when power and influence are in the room then consent can not be.

That's her words. I personally and absolutely reject that notion but you wanted to know how the claim was made and this is it.

the claim was made after inducement of a big payday.

notice that none of these therapists have gone under oath, or cross examination, regarding their allegations

 

[ghostguy123]

There's also those creepers who rub up on people in public and get off immediately.  

 

[Obie Wan]

This is what doesn't make sense to me and maybe I am just being obtuse. 

How does a person ejaculate on someone without their consent. Unless the massage therapist was asleep or had their back to Watson, I don't see how they don't see this coming and get out of there. Unless DeShaun is the "quickest gun in Houston" isn't there a typical buildup to the final show? Why stay around once he exposes himself? 

I haven't followed this story as closely as some in here, but if there is no claim or evidence of DeShaun physically restraining the women and forcing them to stay in the room, how do they claim there wasn't some level of implied consent by remaining present?

And don't take me wrong and think I am saying they wanted this to happen, but it seems like they would have had a chance to leave before things progressed to this level. 

for being massage therapists, you would think the small towel would have been the first clue, and the first act of consent implied by continuing to perform the massage

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

What evidence are we aware of?

...

Can the NFL suspend Watson because his reputation is so tarnished? Given the number of allegations, I believe Watson committed some illegal acts above and beyond solicitation. I haven't seen any evidence though. Can the NFL justify suspension based on public opinion?

The NFL may be able to suspend Watson for acting in a way that tarnishes the league's reputation (that's one of the catch-all provisions in the personal conduct policy), but it can't do so based on allegations. It must do so based only on evidence presented at his hearing.

To answer your initial question, when it comes to evidence presented at his hearing, I don't think we're aware of any of it.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I don't see how they don't see this coming

:rimshot emoji: 

 

[Stinkin Ref]

whatever happened last season as far as him "not playing"....means diddly sqaut...it has nothing to do with what is happening now.....and what happens moving forward....so can we stop with that...?.....the decisions made about him playing or not playing last year "as far as we know", has nothing to do with the massage stuff...it was "contract" stuff...that is old news....history...they aren't going to come out and say he didn't play last year because of the massage stuff....it going to be about the contract (even if it wasn't)....

like it or not....the settlements lead you to the truth.....you can bury your head in the sand if you want....like Robinson is "supposed to do"....

 

[Anarchy99]

If he's suspended for a full season, his contract may be tolled during 2022, in which case he'd play for $1 million in 2023 and then become a free agent a year later than otherwise. In that case, I don't see what he has to lose (other than attorneys' fees) by going to court.

Watson’s contract would toll if he didn’t play in 2022. If he was suspended for all of 2022 but went to court, he most likely could get an injunction to play while his case worked its way through the court system (Brady was able to keep playing while he fought his suspension).

It could easily take longer than the NFL season for things to play out in court, meaning he probably could play all of Year 1 of his contract. If eventually he lost his court case, he would be suspended for Year 2 of his contract . . . which would toll the rest of his contract by a year. 

Watson is due $1M in salary in Year 1 but $46M in salary in Year 2. If Watson tried to get CLE on board by converting  most of his $46 million salary into a bonus to get him a $1M salary instead (also what NE did with Brady), the Browns would then have to increase the cap hit for Watson over 3 seasons instead of 4 seasons ($10M, $10M, $67M, $67M, $67M vs. the current $10M, $55M, $55M, $55M, $55M). The Browns might not be that keen on doing that. A player can only rework his contract once a year, and given that Watson only signed a few months ago, I do not believe CLE could flip flop the year he gets his $1M salary from this year to next year. IIRC, Watson has to wait until next offseason to change his contract. CLE can opt to convert his salary into a bonus, but I don’t think they can reassign his annual salaries until the 2023 season.

As things stand with his current contract,   Watson would lose $1M in salary if he accepted a suspension on the first year of his deal but $46M in salary if he had to serve his suspension for the second year of his contract. Maybe there is another work around that I can’t think of at the moment, but it sure seems like financially Watson would be better off losing $1M vs. $46M. Of course, that’s based on him having to serve a yearlong suspension at some point (we have no idea if that will be the length of his suspension) and that is upheld in court.

So the issue for DW is whether it’s financially worth trying to play while his case is in court. He can’t play and have his contract toll. It’s one or the other.