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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
It just seems to me that when teams Manhattan Project* the prospect evaluation process that they miss the obvious.
*Spend more time shrouding it in secrecy and misdirection than actually evaluating
*Spend more time shrouding it in secrecy and misdirection than actually evaluating
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WheelsUp
Footballguy
I love when people say things like "not accurate enough for me" and "completion pct is misleading." In other words you are looking for things to say, true or not, to try to defend your point. You need better than saying a guy is 67% accurate is not accurate enough AND that its misleading because it doesnt jive with your point. As a guy on the fence about Watson as a player still, those are not very convincing.
This guys upside alone in a league that craves QBs and where guys like Bortles went 3rd and Goff went 1st is well worth the Browns taking him first when they need a QB. He wont last until 2nd in the NFL draft. A team will trade up. Browns have already made a bad move passing on Wentz who should not have been taken 2nd but was because his position is in demand in the NFL.
This guys upside alone in a league that craves QBs and where guys like Bortles went 3rd and Goff went 1st is well worth the Browns taking him first when they need a QB. He wont last until 2nd in the NFL draft. A team will trade up. Browns have already made a bad move passing on Wentz who should not have been taken 2nd but was because his position is in demand in the NFL.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Mostly agreed. It will be fun to see how trubisky, Kizer and Watson look by the draft. I think they'll have to move up from 12 to get one of the 3, but they have the picks to take myles first, then focus on moving up from 12.
WheelsUp
Footballguy
Why would it be a mistake for a team who needs a legit QB, to take a legit QB? Did you not see how he performed and took punishment from NFL caliber players? Did he not fight back to win against a team that has not lost in two years to show resilience? Did he throw for over 400 yards against what some were calling a historic defense?
This is a terrible QB class, you dont let the best one who just put on the tryout of a lifetime pass when that is your biggest need.
This isnt fantasy football, you draft for team needs not for best value. Best value has you end up being the Jets or Lions or Browns. He wont last until the 2nd and a team will trade up to get him, dont play around. Take him with the 1st.
This is a terrible QB class, you dont let the best one who just put on the tryout of a lifetime pass when that is your biggest need.
This isnt fantasy football, you draft for team needs not for best value. Best value has you end up being the Jets or Lions or Browns. He wont last until the 2nd and a team will trade up to get him, dont play around. Take him with the 1st.
We've seen this script before, too many times. QB value gets inflated b/c teams have FOMO. Guys keep rising in drafts and get way overdrafted based on performance in a bowl game or combines. Can't think of the last time a Qb who kept climbing in draft boards and then got picked first or top few picks was worth that draft slot. Usually it's been an epic fail.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I was responding to a guy who said he wasn't accurate enough. His evidence was completion % of great QBs, so I responded with Watson's..
I realize that, but comparing a college QBs percentage to pros is apples and oranges. Guys in college are open by yards while guys in the pros are open by inches.
I can tell you with one hundred percent certainty he won't go number one overall, nor should he. Now if they take him with their second first rounder I'd be all for it.
daveR
Footballguy
I saw Clemson handle my Buckeyes pretty easily & came away unimpressed with Watson. I also saw (only) the first half of the Bama game & came away unimpressed. I realize that he orchestrated a tremendous comeback win, but I also remember a guy named Manziel doing that sort of thing. I don't see an indisputable NFL franchise QB here, and I wouldn't take the risk with the top pick.
You're exactly right, which is why he won't go number one and why he probably won't be the first QB taken.
jtd13
Footballguy
It has probably happened since (Wentz is one possible example) but I thought Rivers was considered a late 1st early in the draft process. I remember mocks having him going to the Fins at 20, with comments about that being high for him.
WheelsUp
Footballguy
Serious question? Who should the Browns take at 1? A RB? Another WR? Maybe a CB? They have a good OLine when healthy and have some pieces on D, the need is QB more than any. They need so many pieces in the big picture, but now? You take a guy who can make things happen, not a project. You do not trade out of that and gamble the one piece you need. You do not settle for a lesser QB when you have seen this guy light up the best D in all of college football. This is just my opinion, but to say their is 100% no chance they wont take him when even now there isnt anyone else really being talked as the #1 must have guy is pretty wreckless with the word "100% certainty."
If the Browns have any clue at all they take one of the two DL's available, Garrett, or I think Allen from Alabama. Now they have another mid first draft pick where I think they could still get Watson, or they could use some of the picks they acquired to move up and ensure they get him. What they cannot do is take Watson number one overall.
bigmarc27
Footballguy
One thing I did hear is that Deshaun will be working with Jordan Palmer who is spoken of very highly. Deshaun will interview extremely well and is a high character guy, so his stock will go as high as his arm talent will let him.
Im a homer, but I do think he'll be a pretty good one. He is a bit inaccurate at times though, so there is a ceiling there as well that might be a little low for the top overall pick. I'd be more comfortable at 15 than I would 1 if I'm taking him.
Im a homer, but I do think he'll be a pretty good one. He is a bit inaccurate at times though, so there is a ceiling there as well that might be a little low for the top overall pick. I'd be more comfortable at 15 than I would 1 if I'm taking him.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
He's accurate because of his collegiate completion percentage? Accuracy is more than completion percentage. It is placement, making all NFL throws and being able to protect the ball.
- 30 interceptions over the past two years
- deep ball accuracy issues
- ALA Manziel he has a blue-chip WR to bail him out
- ALA Manziel he is from a spread offense that overly relies on the QB's scrambling abilities to soften up the D
Three execs might think he grades at the top of the 1st round but that isn't the case with the rest of the league.
He is getting a nearly unanimous 2nd round grade per Pauline.
Tony Pauline
Tony Pauline Retweeted Draft Analyst
Shrine Game Draft Buzz: Spoke with several teams during the day & their grade on Deshaun Watson is almost unanimous http://draftanalyst.com/shrine-game-buzz-monday-evening …
http://draftanalyst.com/shrine-game-buzz-monday-evening
January 17, 2017 | Tony Pauline
Shrine Game Buzz: Monday Evening
Here’s the latest news and buzz swirling around the first major pre-draft scouting event of the year as teams have assembled in St Pete, Florida for the annual Shrine Game.
Much has been made as to where Deshaun Watson will end up in the draft. We presently grade the Clemson quarterback as a second round prospect yet there are reports he may end up as a top 15 choice. I can tell you after surveying league people during the first day of Shrine practice the overwhelming belief is Watson will receive second round grades in war rooms.
He’ll grade well in the areas of character and leadership but his accuracy down the field and out to the flanks has been a constant worry. Teams here also question whether or not Watson can play from the pocket.
I do believe Watson could fit into the late part of round one for a team willing to trade up for his services, ala Teddy Bridgewater.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
WheelsUp
Footballguy
He has had the talk by default, not as the unanimous must have player. No one fits that build this year. Thats why I say it is wide open for anyone to go #1 still. This isnt Clowney, Luck, Newton with garrett. No slam dunk #1, just a default #1 at the moment, In my opinion. Garrett is a great player, but everyone I have heard has some reservations about him going #1 still because of the very reason Cleveland needs a QB.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Confirmation bias. And you're dead flat wrong, because Garrett is exactly Clowney. He's a guy that's been highly regarded as a freak talent since high school. He was a consensus 5 star stud in 2014 and top 5 on all recruiting service and dominant in college.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
daveR
Footballguy
IMO, the deficiencies in his game (as outlined by Bracie above) and the strong belief in their analytics make the possibility of the Browns taking him with the top pick non-existent. From what I've been hearing, here & from the media, Garrett has an "astronomical" grade. Putting two and two together, they will either take the phenom (Garrett) or trade the pick. My best guess is that SOMEONE will covet the pick enough to offer a king's ransom and it will be traded.
FUBAR
Footballguy
I was going to go with Suh, with allen playing the role of McCoy. And how well did the Rams do reaching for Sam?
Hankmoody
Footballguy
I was going less with draft comparisons and addressing his comment about Garrett directly, but that works.
3nOut
Footballguy
So how can anyone say that he's not accurate enough if you don't know how he will do in the pros since you can't compare?
DallasDMac
Footballguy
I'm guessing that folks that scout players for a living actually watch tape and can see pass placement rather than just looking at stats. But I could be wrong. (Ok, not really).
FUBAR
Footballguy
considering how often the scouts and staffs draft poorly, you might be wrong.
3nOut
Footballguy
Found this interesting article. http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/packers/203116571.html
AFC scout: "I don't think he's in the class of the quarterbacks that came out last year. Strong arm. Pretty good athlete. Still has some holes in his game."
AFC scout: "I don't think he's in the class of the quarterbacks that came out last year. Strong arm. Pretty good athlete. Still has some holes in his game."
Every scouting report I've seen questions his accuracy, plus I've probably seen him play a dozen times over the past two years. I've seen him miss wide open WRs, but more damning is passes that are behind wide open men that in the NFL would be knocked down or picked.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
"Still has some holes in his game".
I think I'd fire a scout if he said that. Might as well follow it up by saying, "We'd probably have to hire someone to help him get better."
Thanks, Captain Obvious.
I think I'd fire a scout if he said that. Might as well follow it up by saying, "We'd probably have to hire someone to help him get better."
Thanks, Captain Obvious.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
half the scouting reports this time of year are misinformation/misdirection.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Have to question this decision.
Wentz' stock elevated after his Senior Bowl performance and after volunteering to throw at the Combine.
Skipping a platform to showcase your skills hints he has something to hide or is afraid of competition.
http://www.fanragsports.com/news/report-deshaun-watson-turns-senior-bowl-invite/
Report: Deshaun Watson turns down Senior Bowl invite
... While North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz used the Senior Bowl workouts and game as a springboard to make a seismic leap in the draft, en route to a No. 2 selection, Watson did that this season — culminating in Clemson’s rout of Ohio State and last-second victory over previously unbeaten Alabama.
However, Watson may not be a Wentz-level prospect by the time draft weekend comes.
Wentz' stock elevated after his Senior Bowl performance and after volunteering to throw at the Combine.
Skipping a platform to showcase your skills hints he has something to hide or is afraid of competition.
http://www.fanragsports.com/news/report-deshaun-watson-turns-senior-bowl-invite/
Report: Deshaun Watson turns down Senior Bowl invite
... While North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz used the Senior Bowl workouts and game as a springboard to make a seismic leap in the draft, en route to a No. 2 selection, Watson did that this season — culminating in Clemson’s rout of Ohio State and last-second victory over previously unbeaten Alabama.
However, Watson may not be a Wentz-level prospect by the time draft weekend comes.
Warhogs
Footballguy
Wentz had a lot to prove because of the level of competition he played against. I don't know that I feel this decision would hurt Watson. Anybody know how many of the top QB prospects have opted out of the senior bowl the last few seasons? I have no idea because I don't follow that.
Jayrok
Footballguy
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I wouldn't want to impress Hue Jackson either.
