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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (1 Viewer)

Jay Cutler (25 years old when traded) first four years in the league:

  • 81 TDs
  • 63 INTs
  • 12,690 Pass Yards
  • 1,775 attempts
  • 1,098 completions
  • 61.8 Completion Percentage
  • 596 Rush Yards
  • 4 Rush TDs
  • 32 Fumbles
  • 5 Fumbles Lost
DeShaun Watson (26 years old) first four years in the league:

  • 104 TDs 
  • 36 INTs
  • 14,539 Pass Yards
  • 67.8 Completion Percentage
  • 1,677 Rush Yards
  • 17 Rush TDs 
  • 30 Fumbles
  • 3 Fumbles Lost
Russel Wilson 33 years old coming off an injury.  Jay Cutler had type-1 diabetes, a significant ailment that I 'suspect' contributed to 'mood swings'/odd behavior, but no other NFL QBs  have ever been type-1 diabetics.  People who have no clue dismiss how that effected Cutler's career.  Watson has some-sort of personal daemons he's dealing with but  it hasn't shown on the field but Culter went  undiagnosed for years where his body broke down late in the year.  Cutler is the ONLY comparable scenario but Watson is superior physically. 

The two issues that are different and hanging over him are:  

  1. Suspension
  2. PR hit


I'm not actually making a point here, but it's just kind of crazy how numbers can conflate things sometimes.

Jared Goff (26 years old) first four years in the league

  • 87 TD
  • 42 INT
  • 14,219 Pass Yards
  • 64.1 Completion Percentage
  • 205 Rush Yards
  • 6 Rush TDs
  • 35 Fumbles
  • 15 Fumbles Lost
 
Has anyone had a source within the Watson camp about where he wants to go? The last thing I heard was Miami with Flores that was reported last year. Watson has veto power for all trades due to his no-trade clause, so even if the Panthers offer 100 1st round picks, if he doesn't want to go play for a team with a crap O-line and a coach that's about to be fired, then it won't happen. 

Teams I've seen listed as "interested in Watson" (not sure of accuracy): Panthers, Seahawks, Saints, Steelers, Eagles, Browns, Bucs. Almost all of those teams have bad offensive lines, questionable coaching, or just aren't ready to compete for a championship (thus why they need a franchise QB). 

  • Best O-line: Eagles, 2nd goes to Browns
  • Best Chance to Win: Browns
  • Best Coaches: Steelers (biased)
Houston may want 3 first round picks minimum, but if Watson vetoes 90% of teams and the 10% remaining offer less than 3 1sts, they can either accept it or eat his salary again. They seem to be in a worse situation that most people are reporting. 
does Arians qualify as questionable? 
granted, his ring is a gift from Tom, but he’s over .600 regular season and playoffs. I do rate Tomlin higher but he’s definitely competent. Overall I’d put the a Bucs chance of winning over the browns by a fair amount. 

 
I’m skeptical. They have a lot more holes than QB. It makes no sense for them to bring in Watson and still have the same issues that they had with Wilson. e.g. an inability to protect the QB, very little to no pass rush, a weak secondary, and a relatively weak LB corps. Selling off all the draft capital they just acquired to bring in Watson (who may only play 1/2 a season) would be insane. They’d win no more games with Watson than they would have with Wilson under those circumstances.

Plus Watson would have to waive his no-trade clause to go to a team with little chance of winning on a roster full of holes in a brutal division. 

IMO he’ll go to CAR. The window to winning is wide open without Brees, no Brady, and an aging Ryan. CAR has the draft capital to deal, plus they can include CMC & free up some cash. They have talent at WR & TE, and they have a defense that’s a couple pieces away. 

and not for nothing, Watson is very familiar/comfortable with the Carolinas from his youth. 

That’s the smartest landing spot, IMO. 
So Seattle cant improve on some of those things in say, ohhhhhh, the next 10 years where Watson will be an excellent QB??

When you have a chance to go after a high end QB, you do it

 
I’m skeptical. They have a lot more holes than QB. It makes no sense for them to bring in Watson and still have the same issues that they had with Wilson. e.g. an inability to protect the QB, very little to no pass rush, a weak secondary, and a relatively weak LB corps. Selling off all the draft capital they just acquired to bring in Watson (who may only play 1/2 a season) would be insane. They’d win no more games with Watson than they would have with Wilson under those circumstances.


Watson gives them an extra 7 years to fix those other issues.  Not to mention they wouldn't have moved Russ in the first place if he didn't force his way out, so them moving Wilson doesn't necessarily mean that they don't want a good QB.  The deal would be you get 7 years younger and get rid of the QB that was going to leave anyway, which I think definitely makes sense.

Why would they? They just addressed the QB situation to open their window for a chance to win in a somewhat weak division. 

Now they’re gonna hamstring the rest of the roster by dealing away all their picks to sabotage themselves? 

It makes a lot more sense for WAS to not deal for Watson than it does for them to deal for him. 


Again Watson is 26, and elite.  Wentz is a stopgap, and mediocre.  These teams are thinking beyond this year.  If the legal stuff blows over every team without a young elite QB would be crazy not to take their best shot at getting one.

 
Considering Watson has the power to agree to a trade partner, I am guessing we dont see some sort of huge package coming back for him that most people expect.  If Watson is smart he tells them one team.  He risks not being traded at all, but oh well, he's still getting paid to do nothing then

 
You think that everyone is on one side of some Me Too fence? 
You are calling it a me too fence, not me. What I meant was where you fell on motivation of the DA. I sincerely did not understand what you were communicating. My initial scan of prior posts, I'd have thought you and the OP were generally aligned in opinion that the DA chose this path due to public scrutiny, and belief of an unwinnable case. I now understand his choice of a few politically charged words triggered you.

This just doesn't seem all that complicated when you look at all the facts without triggering words. Law enforcement is going to investigate such a highly publicized case. A DA is going to intake the facts gathered and do his/her own diligence in such a highly publicized case. Those countless hours are a sunk cost; I'm sure it was time consuming to evaluate 22 individual allegations. I don't believe the lion's share of the time/energy/expense are reaction to pressure from any sort of me too movement. it's just what we expect law enforcement and district attorney office to do, particularly when under a celebrity spotlight.

As always, the DA wound up with 3 options: file charges and convince a judge of probable cause, convene a GJ, or close the investigation. The option this DA chose is a logical one if s/he deemed this not to be a winnable case but closing the investigation without the public knowing facts was a political lightening rod. As PFT mentioned, s/he may even conduct the GJ with less zeal or greater presentment of facts signaling doubt, if they've deemed the case is doomed and they don't want a GJ indictment to put a doomed prosecution in motion.

 
Considering Watson has the power to agree to a trade partner, I am guessing we dont see some sort of huge package coming back for him that most people expect.  If Watson is smart he tells them one team.  He risks not being traded at all, but oh well, he's still getting paid to do nothing then
I wonder how much of a power move he’ll try here. In theory, any QB going to a new team would want that team to give the least possible. But that usually doesn’t work out  that way. 

 
Has anyone had a source within the Watson camp about where he wants to go? The last thing I heard was Miami with Flores that was reported last year. Watson has veto power for all trades due to his no-trade clause, so even if the Panthers offer 100 1st round picks, if he doesn't want to go play for a team with a crap O-line and a coach that's about to be fired, then it won't happen. 

Teams I've seen listed as "interested in Watson" (not sure of accuracy): Panthers, Seahawks, Saints, Steelers, Eagles, Browns, Bucs. Almost all of those teams have bad offensive lines, questionable coaching, or just aren't ready to compete for a championship (thus why they need a franchise QB). 

  • Best O-line: Eagles, 2nd goes to Browns
  • Best Chance to Win: Browns
  • Best Coaches: Steelers (biased)
Houston may want 3 first round picks minimum, but if Watson vetoes 90% of teams and the 10% remaining offer less than 3 1sts, they can either accept it or eat his salary again. They seem to be in a worse situation that most people are reporting. 
Most speculation I’ve seen is he wants Tampa or New Orleans. 

 
Has anyone had a source within the Watson camp about where he wants to go? The last thing I heard was Miami with Flores that was reported last year. Watson has veto power for all trades due to his no-trade clause, so even if the Panthers offer 100 1st round picks, if he doesn't want to go play for a team with a crap O-line and a coach that's about to be fired, then it won't happen. 

Teams I've seen listed as "interested in Watson" (not sure of accuracy): Panthers, Seahawks, Saints, Steelers, Eagles, Browns, Bucs. Almost all of those teams have bad offensive lines, questionable coaching, or just aren't ready to compete for a championship (thus why they need a franchise QB). 

  • Best O-line: Eagles, 2nd goes to Browns
  • Best Chance to Win: Browns
  • Best Coaches: Steelers (biased)
Houston may want 3 first round picks minimum, but if Watson vetoes 90% of teams and the 10% remaining offer less than 3 1sts, they can either accept it or eat his salary again. They seem to be in a worse situation that most people are reporting. 
On what planet are the Browns with Watson a better chance to win than the Bucs with Watson?

 
I would assume Watson gives a list of places he wants to go.

Does Houston find out who is serious, and present that list to Watson?

I'm not really sure how it works, plus I think HOU is run by dingbats, so that's a wild card. 

 
An excellent point that I haven’t seen made until your post. 

Sexual sadism or sexual proclivity addiction is a legit thing. A tiger doesn’t change his stripes. There is a significantly higher than zero chance that a team trades for him & he gets caught slappity slapping his junk on someone again in a non-consensual manner.

One would think that after being caught, someone would be smart enough not to do it again - but it’s not about being smart. Sex addicts re-offend often. 

I’m not saying it’s gonna happen, but it is a consideration. 
But IF Watson really is this predator (and by no means am I saying he is) then pretty sure he knows from here on out, he can get his fix by hiring a prostitute if that's his thing. Doubt he ever puts himself in a position to be accused again. Its not like he doesn't have the money to hire a woman to do whatever he wants. And while I think prostitution isn't a good thing for anyone to engage in, it is one of the oldest trades on earth and there is no shortage of women doing it. 

 
So Seattle cant improve on some of those things in say, ohhhhhh, the next 10 years where Watson will be an excellent QB??

When you have a chance to go after a high end QB, you do it
They could. But they’ll suck for a couple years in the interim & I’m not sure Watson wants to sign up for that after being in HOU on sucky teams for years. 

 
But IF Watson really is this predator (and by no means am I saying he is) then pretty sure he knows from here on out, he can get his fix by hiring a prostitute if that's his thing. Doubt he ever puts himself in a position to be accused again. Its not like he doesn't have the money to hire a woman to do whatever he wants. And while I think prostitution isn't a good thing for anyone to engage in, it is one of the oldest trades on earth and there is no shortage of women doing it. 
Again, part of the thrill for sexual offenders is offending. 

If he is a perv that these women allege, he wouldn’t be able to get the same kicks from a prostitute. The fact that it’s non-consensual is what perverts get off on.

i’m no expert - my college roommate was studying to be one though & I learned way too much about this stuff.  Just like rape isn’t about sex, neither is non-consensual sexual assault of other forms. It’s about power, or the act of abuse against the victim’s will. 

 
Considering Watson has the power to agree to a trade partner, I am guessing we dont see some sort of huge package coming back for him that most people expect.  If Watson is smart he tells them one team.  He risks not being traded at all, but oh well, he's still getting paid to do nothing then
I don’t see McNair or the new GM getting bullied into taking a smaller package. They coulda shipped him a long time ago for a discounted package. It’s his prime he’s wasting….

 
Again, part of the thrill for sexual offenders is offending. 

If he is a perv that these women allege, he wouldn’t be able to get the same kicks from a prostitute. The fact that it’s non-consensual is what perverts get off on.

i’m no expert - my college roommate was studying to be one though & I learned way too much about this stuff.  Just like rape isn’t about sex, neither is non-consensual sexual assault of other forms. It’s about power, or the act of abuse against the victim’s will. 
You are probably 100% correct and I'm proud that I'm NOT able to relate to what gets true predators off.  I guess logic goes out the window with that population. 

 
You are probably 100% correct and I'm proud that I'm NOT able to relate to what gets true predators off.  I guess logic goes out the window with that population. 
It’s a weird, fascinating & horrifying subject. I’m also relieved / happy that I can’t relate to that mindset.

But again, this is all based on the assumption that Watson is some kind of pervert who gets off on those actions.

He might just really love a good rub & tug, and 22 women saw it as a payday.

I have no idea one way or another. 22 seems like enough smoke for there to be some fire, so….yeah. 

 
Agree and he's going to get a massive haul, biggest ever.
The bigger the haul, the worse for Watson.  Surely his representation knows this as well.

Considering the Texans have no plans to play him, they do not hold as much leverage as a team normally would.

They didnt trade him for a discounted package last year because teams were obviously not making them ANY offers considering Watson was looking at 22 sexual misconduct charges.

 
I just heard some podcast with Michael Lombardi he recorded today and he's usually got some really good insider info and of course has worked with Caserio and Easterby among others.

I wanted to preface what I'm about to say by mentioning that first because what I'm going to relay what he's saying is so hard to believe I'm not able to at this time.

What he is saying is that Watson has totally waived his no trade clause.

 
Most speculation I’ve seen is he wants Tampa or New Orleans. 
Hey bud, you asked in the Bucs thread. What I saw was he was traded to the Bucs, when I asked for details which is why I took them down the other day, things got fuzzy.

-Would a team part with multiple 1st round picks for a guy that might not play in 2022? In fact let's assume Goodell drops the hammer and says you're toast in '22 and if you're lucky I might let you back on good behavior in 2023. And let's assume that teams are thinking like we are in this post and that there might even be rumors or warnings behind the scenes indicating to owners that not everything is A-OK here...because nobody has jumped up and took action, Yet!

The Bucs can offer 1st this year and next but they aren't very high selections. 

-Philly can ship all 3 of theirs in the 15-20 range plus another one from 2023 if they really want to press hard, maybe they don't need that many to purchase Watson. 

-Miami has always been linked and Watson would love to come here. I watched Denver ship their QB, lot of people believe in Tua, I'd trade Tua and multiple 1st and be done with it but thankfully I'm not Stephen Ross...but I wouldn't put this past him. 

-Seattle has a lot of selections to deal and they also are holding No 9, Top10 for at least one fo the picks. 

I hear DeShaun likes warm weather, what players don't? Arians kept the entire staff, lot of the good players are in place, seems prime to turn the keys and I believe even without a lot of ammo or extra Draft selections, the Bucs can still put a package together and it might hurt, a key player in return they would prefer not to lose. But you have to sacrifice in order to get him. 

I'm definitely pulling for him to be a Buc of a Phin, he's going to play somewhere eventually, why not for somebody I like?

 
I was just wondering about the no-trade clause and the Jets in the QB carousel thread. Seems to me the Jets are in play if that's the case. 


I'm pretty sure the Jets were one of the teams he listed as a preferred spot last year so I'm assuming he would have not had an issue going to them.

I'd be pulling for it if I was a Jets fan but to me if he truly waived the no trade clause this adds more credence to the Seattle rumors, because that's a spot I did not think he'd want to go if given any kind of say.

 
I'm pretty sure the Jets were one of the teams he listed as a preferred spot last year so I'm assuming he would have not had an issue going to them.

I'd be pulling for it if I was a Jets fan but to me if he truly waived the no trade clause this adds more credence to the Seattle rumors, because that's a spot I did not think he'd want to go if given any kind of say.
Yeah, I remember PFF Twitter had him mocked up in a Jets uniform. This was before the allegations got really, really ugly and numerous. 

 
As a Z. Wilson dynasty owner this is a horrifying possibility. 
That is. He'd either be on his way to potentially back up Davis Mills or he'd be behind Watson. 

I don't think it will come to pass, though. The Johnson's aren't savvy enough with PR to ever take a guy like Watson on without having major problems and tripping over their own feet. 

Oh? What's that I hear? You're asking me as a Jets fan if I want him? 

Probably not. Seems like a tough guy to root for, actually. Like, really, really tough. Can't always be selling one's soul. One only has but one. 

 
I'm pretty sure the Jets were one of the teams he listed as a preferred spot last year so I'm assuming he would have not had an issue going to them.

I'd be pulling for it if I was a Jets fan but to me if he truly waived the no trade clause this adds more credence to the Seattle rumors, because that's a spot I did not think he'd want to go if given any kind of say.
This is true and I wouldn't past any team to trade their young up n coming QB for an established guy like Watson if he didn't have so many lawsuits. If Watson had kept his nose clean he would already be on another team and likely have stats from 2021. He might not see the field until 2023, last snap in 2020, that gap would concern me. CK 2.0 after he was away for a long time he looked like hot garbage even working out. All things have a shelf life when they aren't being used.  

 
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 He might not see the field until 2023,
I believe teams preparing to make a bundle of an offer for him have done enough due diligence both on Waton's case's as well as with the league office to not believe this is a possibility. We'll see but I'm not expecting anything like this kind of suspension at all.

 
That is. He'd either be on his way to potentially back up Davis Mills or he'd be behind Watson. 

I don't think it will come to pass, though. The Johnson's aren't savvy enough with PR to ever take a guy like Watson on without having major problems and tripping over their own feet. 

Oh? What's that I hear? You're asking me as a Jets fan if I want him? 

Probably not. Seems like a tough guy to root for, actually. Like, really, really tough. Can't always be selling one's soul. One only has but one. 
Plus they invested quite a bit of draft capital in Wilson. It would be a horrifying admission of failure to move on after one season. 

 
I believe teams preparing to make a bundle of an offer for him have done enough due diligence both on Waton's case's as well as with the league office to not believe this is a possibility. We'll see but I'm not expecting anything like this kind of suspension at all.
As I’ve said all along, I expect 6 games. Something on order of Big Ben’s suspension, which IIRC was also 6?

 
so, from 100% being indicted, to 100% not playing until 2023?
No. From “a good chance of being indicted” to not indicted.

and from “a very likely suspension” to still “a very likely suspension.” Because it’s clear something happened, whether there’s enough evidence to be criminally prosecuted or not, and 22 women are still alleging sexual assault & suing him for it.

Which would be a clear violation of the PCP, and thus, subject to suspension. 

Weird framing though. 

 
As I’ve said all along, I expect 6 games. Something on order of Big Ben’s suspension, which IIRC was also 6?


Yes 6 down to 4 but as some of have said to be fair that was a different time and not as many allegations.

I'm thinking 4-8 myself.
Ben sexually assaulted a woman in a Georgia bathroom but there wasn't enough evidence for formal charges. Goodell still handed him 6 games. 

Edit: Allegedly Ben did this, it's not allegedly that he served the 6 game suspension and I recall he didn't even try to get it cut by 1-2 games.

 
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so, from 100% being indicted, to 100% not playing until 2023?
It sounds ridiculous but they just kissed Ridley good bye over a couple of bucks to send a clear message. I cannot think of a more appropriate time or case for Goodell to drop Thor's Hammer down on someone and make an example out of them. We're talking about a man who suspended Tom Brady for letting air out of a football for 4 GAMES! Yes that happened. 

 
It sounds ridiculous but they just kissed Ridley good bye over a couple of bucks to send a clear message. I cannot think of a more appropriate time or case for Goodell to drop Thor's Hammer down on someone and make an example out of them. We're talking about a man who suspended Tom Brady for letting air out of a football for 4 GAMES! Yes that happened. 
The irony of Goodell being worthy of lifting Mjolnir in the first place is *chef’s kiss*

 
I’m really curious how the politics surrounding the no trade clause plays out here. Yes Watson holds strong cards, but at what cost?

If Houston has a spectacular deal and Watson tries to force them to take a far less deal, you know the rest of the league is watching. It could strongly signal the end of these kinds of deals. 

Keep in mind Watson still hasn’t played on the deal he signed with the huge number in Houston. He signed after DHop was dealt too and then became disgruntled. I just can’t see owners tolerating that nuance in future deals depending upon what happens here. 

 
I’m really curious how the politics surrounding the no trade clause plays out here. Yes Watson holds strong cards, but at what cost?

If Houston has a spectacular deal and Watson tries to force them to take a far less deal, you know the rest of the league is watching. It could strongly signal the end of these kinds of deals. 

Keep in mind Watson still hasn’t played on the deal he signed with the huge number in Houston. He signed after DHop was dealt too and then became disgruntled. I just can’t see owners tolerating that nuance in future deals depending upon what happens here. 
Did you hear the Packers announcement this week? These QBs get whatever they want. Don't like a rule? They just complain until it's changed in their favor as are most of the rule changes in the last 10-20 years. 

4 years $200 Million, owners will tolerate a lot. 

 
If the Texans are still upset with him, and he really did waive his no trade clause, I think they owe it to him to trade him to Washington to be stuck with Dan Snyder as his owner. Seems fair/karma right??? Right???? 

 
Has anyone had a source within the Watson camp about where he wants to go? The last thing I heard was Miami with Flores that was reported last year. Watson has veto power for all trades due to his no-trade clause, so even if the Panthers offer 100 1st round picks, if he doesn't want to go play for a team with a crap O-line and a coach that's about to be fired, then it won't happen. 

Teams I've seen listed as "interested in Watson" (not sure of accuracy): Panthers, Seahawks, Saints, Steelers, Eagles, Browns, Bucs. Almost all of those teams have bad offensive lines, questionable coaching, or just aren't ready to compete for a championship (thus why they need a franchise QB). 

  • Best O-line: Eagles, 2nd goes to Browns
  • Best Chance to Win: Browns
  • Best Coaches: Steelers (biased)
Houston may want 3 first round picks minimum, but if Watson vetoes 90% of teams and the 10% remaining offer less than 3 1sts, they can either accept it or eat his salary again. They seem to be in a worse situation that most people are reporting. 


Aaron Wilson of Pro Football network says 49ers and Eagles are out on Watson. 

 
Aaron Wilson of Pro Football network says 49ers and Eagles are out on Watson. 


49'ers were never in it.

In the last hour Wilson has posted this on twitter regarding the Eagles:

Aaron Wilson

@AaronWilson_NFL

Other than the Eagles, whose GM Howie Roseman, contacted Rusty Hardin last yr and sent investigator to Houston before moving on when it became known that Watson wasn’t inclined to waive his no-trade clause, no NFL teams has conducted as much due diligence as Carolina

And this from an article he posted:

Philadelphia Eagles

Philadelphia Eagles general manager Howie Roseman previously conducted significant due diligence on Watson before last season.

The Eagles even sent an investigator to Houston to look into the legal situation and contacted Rusty Hardin, Watson’s attorney, per sources. However, Watson has never been inclined to waive his no-trade clause for the Eagles. Moreover, Philadelphia has publicly committed to Jalen Hurts as their quarterback.

All I see his is him saying Watson has not waived his no trade clause, I see nothing saying the Eagles are out. ETA-I'm not saying you are providing inaccurate info, I just don't see it and meant to say do you have a link or were did you see it?

 
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It sounds ridiculous but they just kissed Ridley good bye over a couple of bucks to send a clear message. I cannot think of a more appropriate time or case for Goodell to drop Thor's Hammer down on someone and make an example out of them. We're talking about a man who suspended Tom Brady for letting air out of a football for 4 GAMES! Yes that happened. 
Yeah, the message was 'no gambling'. The NFL wants this Watson thing to go away. Gambling, they will actively look to root out, because they want players terrified of getting caught. It threatens integrity of the game, and if some player gets caught throwing a game because of a wager, that's massive trouble. The NFL knows that they can recover from any trouble involving women. 

It's not even apples and oranges. It's apples and rocket ships. 

 
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