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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (2 Viewers)

-OZ- said:
ok then. You do that to my daughter, you won’t need to worry about suspensions. But then, she’s 8 and not a massage therapist. I’m not hugging the dude who sexually assaults my wife either, but you do you. 
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Of all the shocking things in this thread, that was the biggest  :shock: .

 
I used to have a flexible spending account through my work for ~10 years. I would regularly get reimbursed for massages and went to several different female* masseuses over the course of time. Their status as a LMT was often known upfront, as they would typically advertise as such and even list their license #. Other times they were affiliated with a clinic and it was implicit. But sometimes it was much more casual. I didn't ask for a license because... it wasn't a priority for me. My priority was treating my neck and back tension and so forth and to find a masseuse that was actually good at it. Because a lot of them weren't. It made more sense to just book it if there were a timeslot available. I found a couple LMT that I really liked and went back to but TLDR my main point here is it is hard to find a good one and out here in Portland anyway they are kind of a dime a dozen. The only way to find out if they are properly trained is to give them a shot. I have gone into a couple of stranger's homes and had them come to mine. In those cases there were mutual friends or contacts that introduced us.

*I always ask for females because I just feel more comfortable that way. Hope it goes without saying I never tried anything with any of them. I did have one give me a little tickle really high up my inner thigh at the very end of the session as she was literally saying the words "ok that's all" or something to that effect.

Anyway, the "not a priority" line isn't as bad as it sounds IMO. And I'm not suggesting he needed to shop around as much as I did for legitimate therapeutic purposes either. I was sort of dumpster diving with groupons and my FSA and such. He is a multimillionaire. He should have been able to find the right legit LMT for his athletic needs without issue. There is way too much smoke in this story. That is just my opinion. 

 
habsfan said:
This has become a "How the world works" versus "How the world should work" conversation.
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Absolutely, and that dynamic plagues almost every online discussion of any topic. But it still happens and is good to call out. We're sort of all communally guilty of it.

ignatiusjreilly said:
That was something that occurred to me reading the latest NYT article. I don't personally know any massage therapists, but I would imagine the vast majority of them absolutely hate the fact that people think "happy endings" are a normal thing, or that the work they do is in any way sexual. The fact that all these therapists are coming forward is almost an admission against interest on their part, because it does significant damage to their careers and the general image of their profession.
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I know tons of them and yes they absolutely hate this ####. Most legit LMT will have very frank warnings somewhere in their materials online or inclinic or whatever saying any sexual misconduct (my verbiage) is grounds for immediate cancellation, banishment, and forfeit of the money paid for the session, etc. But yes this kind of thing is absolutely not good for the profession.

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
That was something that occurred to me reading the latest NYT article. I don't personally know any massage therapists, but I would imagine the vast majority of them absolutely hate the fact that people think "happy endings" are a normal thing, or that the work they do is in any way sexual. The fact that all these therapists are coming forward is almost an admission against interest on their part, because it does significant damage to their careers and the general image of their profession.

Also, as long as I'm pontificating on jobs that I have no direct knowledge of, my understanding of professional athletes and massages is that they typically find one therapist who knows them and their body well and stick with that person. The fact that


Watson


had 66 different therapists, all women, doesn't by itself prove anything, but it is hugely suggestive. 
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I know a number of licensed, professional massage therapists.  Happy endings are not at all a normal thing for their profession.  There are places where those services can be had but the people who work there are not licensed massage therapists.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
You would be ok with someone that unwelcomingly whipped it out and started masturbating in front of your wife or daughter? I'm don't want to call you a liar but that's incredible.
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Yep.  That's my perspective.  I'm neither impressed nor repulsed by sexual desires.  It's part of be human.  Some people go overboard and others repress it altogether.  I guess, for those going overboard, I would suggest propriety to them.  

 
daveR said:
Yep.  That's my perspective.  I'm neither impressed nor repulsed by sexual desires.  It's part of be human.  Some people go overboard and others repress it altogether.  I guess, for those going overboard, I would suggest propriety to them.  
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I hope it never happens to your wife or daughter even though you wouldn't care if it did. 

Go Browns!

 
daveR said:
Yep.  That's my perspective.  I'm neither impressed nor repulsed by sexual desires.  It's part of be human.  Some people go overboard and others repress it altogether.  I guess, for those going overboard, I would suggest propriety to them.  
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There’s a HUGE difference between understanding sexual desires and apparently being okay with sexual assault. 
a dude looks at my wife for a while at the pool or beach 🤷 whatever, doesn’t matter. Dude masturbates on her? Entirely different scenario. 

 
candian fantasy guy said:
I have a sister that is a registered Massage therapist. She has been doing this full time for over 20 years. I asked her how many times a guy has ever done anything like DW has. Answer = that’s sick! Did he really do that? And that’s a hard ZERO for those events. 
 

Maybe it’s the Canadian culture, dunno, but this is not normal. 
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It is not normal in the US for legitimate licensed massage therapists here in the US either.

 
Godsbrother said:
It is not normal in the US for legitimate licensed massage therapists here in the US either.
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how normal is it for massage therapists to be flown out halfway around the country to perform a 60min massage? the only 2 RMTs i know say theyve never even had to leave the city.  

there's a lot of abnormalities on both sides... what's clear is watson has a sex based obsession/kink. but there is so much to this story that just boggles the mind, on both sides. moreso on his, but both. 

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Pervert.
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He's not a pervert!

He's a homophobe! (j/k)

Years ago, we were on a family vacation at a resort and were scheduling massages. Both of my brothers (in their early 30s at the time) were adamant that their therapist had to be female. I was like, "You know you're not going to have sex with them, right?"

That said, I totally get where @barackdhouse is coming from. Ironically, I was recently in the market for a new primary care physician, and one of the doctors I met with was a woman, which just felt somehow off to me even though I knew rationally that it shouldn't matter

 
Soulfly3 said:
how normal is it for massage therapists to be flown out halfway around the country to perform a 60min massage? the only 2 RMTs i know say theyve never even had to leave the city.  

there's a lot of abnormalities on both sides... what's clear is watson has a sex based obsession/kink. but there is so much to this story that just boggles the mind, on both sides. moreso on his, but both. 
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It is not normal for a licensed massage therapist to give happy endings to customers, regardless of location.  

Perhaps Watson was unlucky and only associated with disreputable therapists that were willing fly to another city to pleasure him only to turn around and sue him.   

Anything is possible.

 
Soulfly3 said:
how normal is it for massage therapists to be flown out halfway around the country to perform a 60min massage? the only 2 RMTs i know say theyve never even had to leave the city.  

there's a lot of abnormalities on both sides... what's clear is watson has a sex based obsession/kink. but there is so much to this story that just boggles the mind, on both sides. moreso on his, but both. 
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OK, so walk me through your theory here: 

Watson wants to have on-demand sex, so he arranges for a bunch of high-priced call girls to be brought to Houston, only under the cover story that they're massage therapists? And then some of the women decide to sue him over his sexual advances -- despite the fact that a call girl would have no reason to sue a guy for masturbating in front of her -- but they maintain the charade that they are LMTs?  :shrug:

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
OK, so walk me through your theory here: 

Watson wants to have on-demand sex, so he arranges for a bunch of high-priced call girls to be brought to Houston, only under the cover story that they're massage therapists? And then some of the women decide to sue him over his sexual advances -- despite the fact that a call girl would have no reason to sue a guy for masturbating in front of her -- but they maintain the charade that they are LMTs?  :shrug:
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im sure some of it is role play/kink. like i said, he's very likely a sexual deviant. the idea of having (im assuming) very attractive RMTs (or some likely not RMTs) fly in to fulfill whatever fantasy he has, was likely what it was...

and by all accounts, his former club and a spa were part of the game. 

 
Soulfly3 said:
im sure some of it is role play/kink. like i said, he's very likely a sexual deviant. the idea of having (im assuming) very attractive RMTs (or some likely not RMTs) fly in to fulfill whatever fantasy he has, was likely what it was...

and by all accounts, his former club and a spa were part of the game. 
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Boys will be boys? The girls should have should known what they were getting into? They should have dressed differently if they didn't want it? Things were better back in your day? Anything missing?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Apple Juice said:
Boys will be boys? The girls should have should known what they were getting into? They should have dressed differently if they didn't want it? Things were better back in your day? Anything missing?
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i word for word said he's very likely a sexual deviant. at what point of my response did i even insinuate any of the above? 

 
barackdhouse said:
I used to have a flexible spending account through my work for ~10 years. I would regularly get reimbursed for massages and went to several different female* masseuses over the course of time. Their status as a LMT was often known upfront, as they would typically advertise as such and even list their license #. Other times they were affiliated with a clinic and it was implicit. But sometimes it was much more casual. I didn't ask for a license because... it wasn't a priority for me. My priority was treating my neck and back tension and so forth and to find a masseuse that was actually good at it. Because a lot of them weren't. It made more sense to just book it if there were a timeslot available. I found a couple LMT that I really liked and went back to but TLDR my main point here is it is hard to find a good one and out here in Portland anyway they are kind of a dime a dozen. The only way to find out if they are properly trained is to give them a shot. I have gone into a couple of stranger's homes and had them come to mine. In those cases there were mutual friends or contacts that introduced us.

*I always ask for females because I just feel more comfortable that way. Hope it goes without saying I never tried anything with any of them. I did have one give me a little tickle really high up my inner thigh at the very end of the session as she was literally saying the words "ok that's all" or something to that effect.

Anyway, the "not a priority" line isn't as bad as it sounds IMO. And I'm not suggesting he needed to shop around as much as I did for legitimate therapeutic purposes either. I was sort of dumpster diving with groupons and my FSA and such. He is a multimillionaire. He should have been able to find the right legit LMT for his athletic needs without issue. There is way too much smoke in this story. That is just my opinion. 
Click to expand...
Regarding the bolded, he was literally bringing in women to perform massages in his hotel room at the Houstonian, which is an upscale Hotel/Club which has world class facilities, so a lot of pro athletes come there to train and get treated AT A FRIGGIN' WORLD CLASS SPA WITH TOP OF THE LINE THERAPISTS! Deshaun could have just made an appointment at the spa if treatment was all he was looking for. He obviously was not looking for that.

 
Godsbrother said:
Perhaps Watson was unlucky and only associated with disreputable therapists that were willing fly to another city to pleasure him only to turn around and sue him.   

Anything is possible.
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Not exactly an Occam's Razor type hypothesis here, but yeah, anything's possible. 

 
-OZ- said:
There are still false reports, agendas, etc. It’s best not to assume that’s the case but they do happen. 
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Problem is that if (I'm being generous) 20% are false reports, have agendas, etc; the only logical assumption is that the person making the report is making it in good faith.  But whenever this kind of thing happens the majority of comments are "she's doing it for the money/to target him/whatever."

But hey 99.99999~% of doctors say vaccinate your kids and people are willing to gamble their children's lives, so nobody should give humans the benefit of the doubt.

 
dhockster said:
Regarding the bolded, he was literally bringing in women to perform massages in his hotel room at the Houstonian, which is an upscale Hotel/Club which has world class facilities, so a lot of pro athletes come there to train and get treated AT A FRIGGIN' WORLD CLASS SPA WITH TOP OF THE LINE THERAPISTS! Deshaun could have just made an appointment at the spa if treatment was all he was looking for. He obviously was not looking for that.
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Agreed

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Hey, hey, hey, this is a judgement-free zone, bro. Some masochists will go to any length to get their rocks off. I can only imagine how excited Watson was at the press conference. 

Again, no judgement. 
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I believe this type of kink is called a "pay pig" and was featured on the TV show "you're the worst" and has nothing to do with my personal life. 🤫

 
wgoldsph said:
But whenever this kind of thing happens the majority of comments are "she's doing it for the money/to target him/whatever."
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And one has to question the authenticity of comments online as well.

I just read that hard right publications like Ben Shapiro's online rag spent somewhere around $50,000 promoting articles trashing Amber Heard during the defamation suit. Their purpose was presumably to chum the waters of misogyny & hang a dark cloud over #metoo

https://www.vice.com/en/article/3ab3yk/daily-wire-amber-heard-johnny-depp

So when victim-blaming & "money grab" narratives immediately surfaced after the accusations were made public, I have to question whether it was grass roots or astroturfed. 

The problem is that in this day & age, it's harder and harder to tell which is which.  But one thing's for certain: there's a huge segment of society to whom that messaging resonates, appealing to biases that are already inherent. 

 
dhockster said:
Regarding the bolded, he was literally bringing in women to perform massages in his hotel room at the Houstonian, which is an upscale Hotel/Club which has world class facilities, so a lot of pro athletes come there to train and get treated AT A FRIGGIN' WORLD CLASS SPA WITH TOP OF THE LINE THERAPISTS! Deshaun could have just made an appointment at the spa if treatment was all he was looking for. He obviously was not looking for that.
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An excellent point. 

 
dhockster said:
Regarding the bolded, he was literally bringing in women to perform massages in his hotel room at the Houstonian, which is an upscale Hotel/Club which has world class facilities, so a lot of pro athletes come there to train and get treated AT A FRIGGIN' WORLD CLASS SPA WITH TOP OF THE LINE THERAPISTS! Deshaun could have just made an appointment at the spa if treatment was all he was looking for. He obviously was not looking for that.
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Yeah if I had to guess I would say I have probably been massaged by perhaps as many as 50 different women for money. And there are perhaps 5 of them that had such a strong intuitive sense of how to work with my body therapeutically that if I were a multimillionaire I would absolutely fly them in or even set them up as a personal trainer with me. Because it really is hard to find a really good one. But once I had found the first one that I felt that way about and who was willing to take the gig, I would be done searching. That wasn't what he was doing.

 
wgoldsph said:
Problem is that if (I'm being generous) 20% are false reports, have agendas, etc; the only logical assumption is that the person making the report is making it in good faith.  But whenever this kind of thing happens the majority of comments are "she's doing it for the money/to target him/whatever."
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When it comes to high-profile legal cases, I absolutely believe it's important to wait for facts to come out before drawing any firm conclusions.

At the same time, what I often do when making up my mind about a situation is ask myself two questions: 1) What scenarios are plausible? 2) What scenario is most likely?

The idea that Watson had some sort of weird perversion that led him to schedule sessions with lots of therapists and then proposition them is a little out there, but certainly seems plausible. Meanwhile, nothing else I've heard sounds plausible. All of these professional therapists, most of whom didn't seem to know each other, got together and made up similar allegations against Watson? Or the theory that they were call girls pretending to be massage therapists? 

We haven't heard all the details yet, so it may be that there are plausible counter-narratives, or it may be that some of what we've heard is wrong. But so far, the narrative that we've heard from the women seems to be the only plausible scenario, and therefore the most likely.

If new evidence emerges, I would be more than happy to re-evaluate that preliminary judgment. I would really prefer to live in a world where dudes aren't that creepy. 

 
wgoldsph said:
Just talk to any woman... Dudes really are that creepy.
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Oh I don't doubt it. But the pattern described by those women is just super weird. It's not as awful as the Bill Cosby/Dave Meggett/Darren Sharper playbook of drugging and raping women, but it may be stranger. I would guess that a guy like Watson had lots of sexual options available to him; he goes out of his way to target massage therapists who are trying to do their jobs, with the goal of getting a handy? Something ain't right in that dude's head.

 
Who throws more  NFL TD's in the next 3 years.  Watson or Bryce Young? 

How did the Browns not know that more and more allegations were coming?   Did the Browns know and just not disclose them?  Did the NFL know and not share that information?   Now the Texans are enabling a predator.  WOW.   

I can see the NFL trying to save face and giving the Browns and Texans some serious penalties.  Loss of draft picks, voiding the Watson trade?     

 
zeeshan2 said:
In a statement, attorney Tony Buzbee said his law firm will be adding the "Houston Texans organization and others as defendants in the ongoing lawsuits against Deshaun Watson."

https://twitter.com/sarahbarshop/status/1534652306456604672

https://twitter.com/sarahbarshop/status/1534652972201701377
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If the Texans knew he had the pattern of behavior of trying to turn so many massages into sex as everything else seems to suggest, and helped him book more appointments, they deserve to pay through the teeth.

Though you'd think if they were aware he was repeatedly harassing the women, that they would have tried to get him to stop if only out of their own self-interest. If they knew anything near the extent this was going on, and enabled him to keep doing it, no qualms with them taking a hit.

 
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