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QB Jaren Hall, MIN (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
After making Tommy Cutlets look like an all-pro a few weeks ago, followed by Baker Mayfield achieving the first and only perfect QB rating at Lambeau Field a week later (both were NFC player of the week for those games), followed by Bryce Young having probably his best game as a pro against the Packers last weekend, the jokes are writing themselves all over Packers Twitter.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
Four starting QBs in one season, with only one of them suffering a season-ending injury, is LOL-worthy.
doeseatplace
Footballguy
Kid, Joe Barry is going to make you a star!
Tell that to the Browns
TampaMike19
Footballguy
Think he’s a good start with the offense and over under. Looks like he runs too and also looks like the packers are a brutal d these days
Start him over Geno Smith?
I am starting him over O'Connell
TampaMike19
Footballguy
I don’t think so due to hawks at home and Steelers are ok matchup. Wouldn’t blame you as Genos been waiver materials
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Why do you think this?
I thought he got too much blame for the offense struggling in certain games. He was bad in the Bears game, but I thought he was fine against Denver, and the Raiders game was much more about how awful the receivers played, as they had some of the most egregious drops I've seen, where like 40% of his attempts were straight up drops. Osborn was especially horrible in that game.
I thought Dobbs played well against Atlanta and New Orleans, and those were games without Jefferson. I also thought his rushing ability was a big positive for the offense.
Dobbs was never as bad as Mullens was against Detroit. Mullens 4 INT's could have honestly been 8, and he fumbled twice.
Chaka
Footballguy
Good point, but doesn't Hall have similar mobility? And Hall was playing very well in the New Orleans game before getting hurt and giving Dobbs the opportunity to be a hero in the first place.
He has more mobility than Mullens, but much less than Dobbs. Dobbs has the tackle breaking ability that very few QBs have.
That was Atlanta not New Orleans. Hall played 8 snaps in that game. He did lead them down the field for a score, but its such a small sample size.
Hall could be ok, I just think its not the direction I'd be going for a playoff push, and I would have never benched Dobbs in the first place. Hall could be a decent start this week though, against a Packers D that has clearly quit, and is minus Alexander. In one championship game, I'm likely starting Hall (or Beathard) at QB, since I was alternating between Lawrence/Wilson and waivers are barren as its 14 teams, a league size I'll never do again.
abrunn1133
Footballguy
NOBODY knows what this kid is, nor what this kid is not. There is nothing he can do in the final two games, short of recording-setting performance type play/deep playoff run, that changes what the Vikings will do in the offseason/draft at the QB position. He could go full Matt Flynn and throw for 460 and 6 and the Vikes will still back up the Brinks truck for Kirk. The coaches that see him in practice every day thought Nick Mullens, who turns the ball over at a higher percentage than anyone, was a better option for the team.
Snoopy
Footballguy
The Packers DC makes opposing pedestrian QBs look like HOF candidates.
abrunn1133
Footballguy
It goes well beyond the DC. The players are not very good.
Snoopy
Footballguy
What do you expect from a GM who only drafts overrated defensive players in the 1st round?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Well the Vikings are a passing offense and the passing game had become completely dormant with Dobbs as the QB for the 2nd half of the Saints game (yes play calling and the Vikings having a lead was a factor in this, but the lack of trust in Dobbs passing ability was also part of that decision by the coaches) then pretty much all of the Denver and Bears games where Dobbs turned the ball over many times and then the Raiders game until they finally benched Dobbs.
That's basically 3 games worth of passing ineptitude compared to the two halves of the Atlanta and Saints games, or one game Dobbs did more than run the ball, or 75% of the playing time they gave Dobbs.
Defenses had learned how to play vs Dobbs also and he wasn't running very much or well after the first half of the Saints game either.
Denver and Chicago's defenses deserve some credit, they played well in those games but the Vikings defense was playing excellent as well. They really just needed Dobbs to get some 1st downs with his arm, not even a lot to win those games but he couldn't get anything going.
I think a big part of this is that Dobbs just still didn't know the offense well enough to find the right reads compared to Mullens. For all the talk about what a sharp QB the passtronaut was, he really needed months of practice to know this offense as well as Mullens or Halll do at this point.
Yes Mullens turns the ball over too much, but when he wasn't turning it over the offense was able to get yards and sustain drives. Compared to Dobbs turning the ball over and when he wasn't the offense being totally stagnant. The Raiders game was close to being a overtime tie. Mullens moved the offense just enough for the Vikings to get a field goal. This is the difference I'm talking about.
I have heard others talk about all the drops by the receivers with Dobbs and how Mullens was lucky the receivers made plays for him and how this was unfair to Dobbs and a evaluation of the 2 QBs by comparison. Even the coach mentions this although he doesn't call out specific receivers by name, that did happen. Some of the catches receivers made for Mullens were off deflections by defenders that could have been turnovers instead and receivers making contested catches for Mullens they didn't make for Dobbs. Thats true. However part of that is because of ball placement and timing difference between the 2 QBs. Mullens is wildly inaccurate a lot too but at least he is in better synch with how the plays are supposed to be run than Dobbs was that allows receivers to make some plays unlike with Dobbs.
Dobbs throws way too high. He got Osborn, Hockenson and Jefferson killed with medicine balls. At least Mullens wasn't doing that as much as Dobbs did.
So no I don't agree they should have stuck with Dobbs. They actually did for about 3 games before benching him and they were stuck going nowhere until they did bench him.
Give Dobbs and Mullens a full training camp competing and maybe Dobbs could win the job. Maybe not, I don’t know but Mullens sucks pretty bad too. But maybe if they had the same amount of practice time with the offense then maybe Dobbs is the better QB. But with the advantage of practice and experience it's pretty clear to me Mullens was ahead of Dobbs by a lot as far as running this offense.
The concern coaches had/have about Hall is he is a rookie and turnovers. Well the veterans are turning the ball over a ton too so may as well see if Hall can do any better.
Playoff aspirations are over. That is why KOC went with his veterans until that became clear. Now it's just about getting the rookie some reps so he has more experience for next season. If they Vikings somehow sneak in to the playoffs with Hall then great, but favoring the veterans for this reason window has closed. It's about getting ready for next season now.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I have heard this before many times and it's nonsense. They did tailor the plays to Dobbs strengths. They had to pare down the playbook big time to accommodate him. It took teams about a game to figure out and adjust to what a Dobbs led offense was going to do with the Vikings. They put a spy on Dobbs and containment rush to take away Dobbs ability to extend plays and adlib with street ball and Dobbs couldn't get anything done once they did that. That's what the Brocos and Bears did and what the Raiders did until the Vikings benched Dobbs for Mullens who could run more than 25% of their playbook.
It's a team sport. The whole passing offense is based on timing. On the number of steps the QB takes after the snap and where their 1st to 3rd reads are on the play. There is timing associated with all of those windows and receivers are running their routes based on that timing. The QB has to have this timing down to be in synch with the receivers to make anticipation throws. Throws that are to a spot even before the receivers makes their break to those spots. It needs to be on time.
Comments were made about receivers not looking back for the ball when Dobbs is throwing it to them. Why? Because Dobbs hasn't mastered the timing of these plays with enough practice yet at that time.
You can't have all the recievers blockers and everyone completely change their timing of these plays they have been practicing for months and months to get on the same page as Dobbs because they don't know what Dobbs is doing. He wasn't running the plays with the right timing.
If you listen to the coaches they are talking about this. They are not naming names or pointing fingers at Dobbs but he is who they were talking about when they say these things. It applies to all their QBs. They are still talking about that now. That even if there is disruption in the play due to pass rush or coverage or whatever, the QB has to find their way through the progressions of the play and get the ball out on time.
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This game is difficult.
TampaMike19
Footballguy
How bad is it for team continuity to keep yanking QB's and switching every week? I bet it's totally frustrating from an O-line and WR point of view. Seems almost like Tanking as the Vikings know that are going nowhere this year without Cousins.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
Putting this stiff out there makes me question KOC's judgment. If he wasn't capable of throwing deep, he had no business being out there as a pet project when you're at home with a playoff chance.
It was a bad decision by KOC.
But Mullens threw 4 picks the previous week and KOC has been preaching about turnovers being an issue for weeks now. KOC is a really good coach IMO who has done a great job this year dealing with a lot of adversity. He made a mistake, but a lot of extreme overreaction in this thread IMO.
At least now they now that Hall's not a viable option for even a #2 role. They are in the midst of a self proclaimed "competitive-rebuild" and it's not like they are going on a run in the playoffs. A lot of things at play that made giving Hall a shot make sense.
Ironically for Hall him getting that start last night, which he was no doubt geeked up about, is probably theworst thing that could have happened to him. Might have played his way out of the league or being able to make an active roster next season.
But Mullens threw 4 picks the previous week and KOC has been preaching about turnovers being an issue for weeks now. KOC is a really good coach IMO who has done a great job this year dealing with a lot of adversity. He made a mistake, but a lot of extreme overreaction in this thread IMO.
At least now they now that Hall's not a viable option for even a #2 role. They are in the midst of a self proclaimed "competitive-rebuild" and it's not like they are going on a run in the playoffs. A lot of things at play that made giving Hall a shot make sense.
Ironically for Hall him getting that start last night, which he was no doubt geeked up about, is probably theworst thing that could have happened to him. Might have played his way out of the league or being able to make an active roster next season.
