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QB Joe Burrow, CIN (1 Viewer)

Bengals were shameful at adding backup QBs too. They had plenty of notice with his calf that someone should have been on the roster.

AJ McCarron has been with them since he was three years old. Isn't he developed by now? Guy looked fine in the spring. What was I watching last night? He's better than that guy
 
Bengals were shameful at adding backup QBs too. They had plenty of notice with his calf that someone should have been on the roster.

AJ McCarron has been with them since he was three years old. Isn't he developed by now? Guy looked fine in the spring. What was I watching last night? He's better than that guy
I didn't think Browning looked bad.
 
Bengals were shameful at adding backup QBs too. They had plenty of notice with his calf that someone should have been on the roster.

AJ McCarron has been with them since he was three years old. Isn't he developed by now? Guy looked fine in the spring. What was I watching last night? He's better than that guy
I didn't think Browning looked bad.
I gotta tell ya, he had a lot more zip on the ball than I was expecting. I'm a little hopeful he can keep Chase and Higgins from being totally worthless.
 
Bengals were shameful at adding backup QBs too. They had plenty of notice with his calf that someone should have been on the roster.

AJ McCarron has been with them since he was three years old. Isn't he developed by now? Guy looked fine in the spring. What was I watching last night? He's better than that guy
I didn't think Browning looked bad.
Very slow release.
Yeah. They were talking about that on the CBS podcast this morning. Everything looks pretty good right up until the point he actually throws the ball.

Flacco maybe if they still think they can make the playoffs? Would be good for us Chase owners but probably won’t happen.
 
Ouch, impact to the rest of the Cinci skill players? Gotta figure Chase will still be startable but Boyd or Mixon? Gotta figure stacked boxes coming and double teams on Chase. Do they shut Higgins down the rest of the season?
I'd say Chase is more of a low-end WR2, Higgins (I doubt he gets shut down, as they are still in the playoff hunt) is probably a WR4, and Boyd is waiver material.

Mixon can potentially maintain low-end RB2 value off volume, but this feels like a similar offense to the Jets or Raiders without Burrow.
Respectfully disagree on one aspect, they are completely dead in the water without Burrow now as far as the playoffs. There is little motivation to bring back Higgins now who hasn't been right all year. Maybe they can backend into it as the 7th seed given how many other teams also lost their QB's this year but seems pretty unlikely. They aren't a NYJ or a CLE with a studly defense they can lean on the rest of the season.
 
If you thought Chase might be dynasty WR1 over Jefferson (I didn't, but if you did) because of the QB situation, Burrow's tendency toward injury has to be concerning and probably dispels that notion.

Burrow gets hurt quite a bit. This latest just seals it.
Yep but also who is Jefferson's QB exactly? Maybe there is another choice for WR1? Or at least a bigger tier than we thought
 
Yep but also who is Jefferson's QB exactly? Maybe there is another choice for WR1? Or at least a bigger tier than we thought

A.J. Brown is on line one. CeeDee Lamb is on line two.
and Amon Ra turned 24 a couple weeks ago and is on a 16 game pace of 170/1660/8. I think those 5 might be my S tier for dynasty WRs: Young and elite. Since getting a consistent starting spot 2/3 of the way into his rookie year, ARSB is averaging 19.6 PPR PPG.
 
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Yep but also who is Jefferson's QB exactly? Maybe there is another choice for WR1? Or at least a bigger tier than we thought

A.J. Brown is on line one. CeeDee Lamb is on line two.
and Amon Ra turned 24 a couple weeks ago and is on a 16 game pace of 170/1660/8. I think those 5 might be my S tier for dynasty WRs: Young and elite. Since getting a consistent starting spot 2/3 of the way into his rookie year, ARSB is averaging 19.6 PPR PPG.
I would have a top tier of 6 that would include the WR's you two mentioned as well as Wilson. He's the one out of he group who has never had a good QB, wins rookie of the year with a poo poo platter at QB and is now on pace for 104/1200 with Zach. Things have been ok, but should one day be considerably better.

A great question for another thread and probably another time since we got a long time to discuss this but sight and team unseen would Marvin already be in this group and if so where? I say hell yes, not sure on the where yet.
 
A great question for another thread and probably another time since we got a long time to discuss this but sight and team unseen would Marvin already be in this group and if so where? I say hell yes, not sure on the where yet.

I say yes. If his game is as refined as they say, his physical attributes are stunning and he's got college performance to back it up.
 
Yep but also who is Jefferson's QB exactly? Maybe there is another choice for WR1? Or at least a bigger tier than we thought

A.J. Brown is on line one. CeeDee Lamb is on line two.
and Amon Ra turned 24 a couple weeks ago and is on a 16 game pace of 170/1660/8. I think those 5 might be my S tier for dynasty WRs: Young and elite. Since getting a consistent starting spot 2/3 of the way into his rookie year, ARSB is averaging 19.6 PPR PPG.
I would have a top tier of 6 that would include the WR's you two mentioned as well as Wilson. He's the one out of he group who has never had a good QB, wins rookie of the year with a poo poo platter at QB and is now on pace for 104/1200 with Zach. Things have been ok, but should one day be considerably better.
I get it but he's 1 tier behind. He's young, dripping with potential and has shown to be very good. But he hasn't put elite on paper yet. The top 5 have.
A great question for another thread and probably another time since we got a long time to discuss this but sight and team unseen would Marvin already be in this group and if so where? I say hell yes, not sure on the where yet.
He is exciting but I can't put any prospect in the same tier as guys who are setting NFL records.
 
Well I’ll be going through the motions ROS. Goff is my new QB and Chase won’t be doing jack.

Had the best team in the league via several sites evaluation of league power rankings. Now I’ll be lucky just to make the playoffs

Oh well, small potatoes. Feel bad for Cincy fans. They were going to be a tough out ROS & the playoffs.
 
I get it but he's 1 tier behind.
Got him in same tier as some of them but I still got Chase and JJ a tier above everyone else.
I see why, he's such a good prospect. Still, I've seen how even the elite can go a little wrong. I need to see NFL performance before I can put someone above a player like AJ Brown, Amon Ra.
We really saying Wilson has not shown NFL performance?
 
I get it but he's 1 tier behind.
Got him in same tier as some of them but I still got Chase and JJ a tier above everyone else.
I see why, he's such a good prospect. Still, I've seen how even the elite can go a little wrong. I need to see NFL performance before I can put someone above a player like AJ Brown, Amon Ra.
We really saying Wilson has not shown NFL performance?
He has shown NFL performance. Nobody would call him a bust or anything. We are talking about putting him in the Justin Jefferson, AJ Brown tier. Has he shown that level of NFL performance?
 
ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports the NFL is investigating why the Bengals did not include Joe Burrow on their Week 11 injury report.

The team’s social media account quickly deleted a Wednesday night video of Burrow wearing some kind of protective device on his right hand and wrist after he did not appear on the team’s injury report. Burrow then aggravated the injury Thursday night against the Ravens and missed the second half while in clear discomfort. “The NFL routinely looks into matters of compliance with the Injury Report policy, and will do so in this instance as well,” Schefter said. “Teams can be fined or even potentially lose a draft pick.” This could be a major, ongoing issue for the Bengals in what has become a lost season.
I'm annoyed at the situation.

Fantasy wise, I wouldn't have done anything differently. I benched him in some leagues where I had other good options. If he was active, I was playing him in the others.

Vegas-Wise...

I took the Bengals to cover +7.5 after the Ravens 1st touchdown (thinking Burrow was fine).
I took a Boosted Fanduel bet for Burrow and Jackson to each have 200+ passing yards and 1+ passing TD's (thinking Burrow was fine)
I had a parlay that was really conservative with Chase at 50+ yards and Boyd at 40+ yards (again, thinking Burrow was fine).

I get it. Gambling is gambling. Burrow could have been injured on a hit similar to Andrews.
But he wasn't.

You bet based on the available information. If I'd known he had a sore throwing wrist going into the game, I'm not touching any of those.
Just think….of sports gambling was not “legal” this wiuld be a non issue.

Only Sam “Ace” Rothstein or a Jimmy The Greek would be talking about it.

Anyway…..the NFL opened the pandoras box embracing the craziness of DFS and constant prop betting.

I actually liked it better when I had a bookie.
 
It’s unlikely the Bengals were hiding an injury. It doesn’t make sense.

First of all, Burrow was zipping the ball around with a ton of velocity in pre-game warmups like he always does. He has a habit of dropping his wrist as he releases the ball (like many QBs, especially in warmups), but his is rather pronounced. It didn’t look like there was any kind of discomfort, at all.

Secondly, Burrow had no “brace” on in warmups & obviously not in live action. You mean to tell me he needed a flimsy brace to ride on a bus, but not to play football? There were reports the thing he had on was a glove to work with his iPad, but I can’t really comment on that.

Lastly, even if his wrist was sore, it’s not necessarily an injury. Players have all kinds of bumps, bruises, & soreness that doesn’t get reported. It happens hundreds of times during the season.

This seems to be stemming mostly from gambling & the people who lost money, but it’s probably as simple as Burrow fell awkwardly & hurt his wrist during the game (which you can clearly see). The Bengals’ media staff likely deleted the photo because people were talking about a “brace” & Burrow being injured. I don’t think anything comes of this. It just doesn’t add up, IMO.
 
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If you thought Chase might be dynasty WR1 over Jefferson (I didn't, but if you did) because of the QB situation, Burrow's tendency toward injury has to be concerning and probably dispels that notion.

Burrow gets hurt quite a bit. This latest just seals it.
I don't think any of his injuries have been chronic/degenerative kind of things.

The ACL--one hit kind of thing.

The wrist--assuming it's from a hit/fall in the game--another one hit.

I don't think his ACL or wrist ligament are particularly weaker than anyone else's.

I expect Burrow will be healthy to start next season. Hopefully this weird injury marred season leads to a dip for Burrow and Chase.
 
I don't think any of his injuries have been chronic/degenerative kind of things.

No, but injuries seem to nag him. See his calf this year. It rendered him useless for about three games.
I think it's just the nature of a calf injury. I'm not convinced that Mahommes or Allen recover more quickly than Burrow does.

Justin Jefferson has missed 5 games with a hamstring injury. I don't think that's a reflection of his ability to heal or recover. It just is what the injury is.
 
I'm not convinced that Mahommes or Allen recover more quickly than Burrow does.

I don't mean that he recovers less quickly. It just always seems like it's something that's affecting his game, whereas you don't hear about that with Allen or Mahomes.
 
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It’s unlikely the Bengals were hiding an injury. It doesn’t make sense.

First of all, Burrow was zipping the ball around with a ton of velocity in pre-game warmups like he always does. He has a habit of dropping his wrist as he releases the ball (like many QBs, especially in warmups), but his is rather pronounced. It didn’t look like there was any kind of discomfort, at all.

Secondly, Burrow had no “brace” on in warmups & obviously not in live action. You mean to tell me he needed a flimsy brace to ride on a bus, but not to play football? There were reports the thing he had on was a glove to work with his iPad, but I can’t really comment on that.

Lastly, even if his wrist was sore, it’s not necessarily an injury. Players have all kinds of bumps, bruises, & soreness that doesn’t get reported. It happens hundreds of times during the season.

This seems to be stemming mostly from gambling & the people who lost money, but it’s probably as simple as Burrow fell awkwardly & hurt his wrist during the game (which you can clearly see). The Bengals’ media staff likely deleted the photo because people were talking about a “brace” & Burrow being injured. I don’t think anything comes of this. It just doesn’t add up, IMO.
The Bengals put the brace pic on their Twitter account.
How many reporters posted pics of the brace in pregame?
Do you not have Twitter? This is odd, man. It's literally all over there
 
I'm not convinced that Mahommes or Allen recover more quickly than Burrow does.

I don't mean that he recovers less quickly. It just always seems like it's something that's affecting his game, whereas you don't hear about that with Allen or Mahomes.
Josh Allen has been dealing with a shoulder injury the last few weeks. He had 2 INT’s just last week.

Allen dealt with an elbow injury last year. Google claims it started in November 6th and was an issue the rest of the season.

Mahommes dislocated his patella in 2019.
Turf Toe in 2021
Bone Bruise on foot in 2022.
Ankle injury in the most recent playoffs.
 
I'm not convinced that Mahommes or Allen recover more quickly than Burrow does.

I don't mean that he recovers less quickly. It just always seems like it's something that's affecting his game, whereas you don't hear about that with Allen or Mahomes.
Josh Allen has been dealing with a shoulder injury the last few weeks. He had 2 INT’s just last week.

Allen dealt with an elbow injury last year. Google claims it started in November 6th and was an issue the rest of the season.

Mahommes dislocated his patella in 2019.
Turf Toe in 2021
Bone Bruise on foot in 2022.
Ankle injury in the most recent playoffs.

And yet Joe Burrow has missed the better part of two separate years with injury.

That's all I really need to know. That, in addition to his nagging injuries that affect his play greatly, he'll miss two half-seasons in separate years.

Allen has never missed a game if I'm reading Pro Football Reference right.
Mahomes has missed three games total in his career if I'm doing the same.

Joe Burrow has been around four years and has or will miss thirteen or fourteen games.

Quite the difference, you think?
 
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I'm not convinced that Mahommes or Allen recover more quickly than Burrow does.

I don't mean that he recovers less quickly. It just always seems like it's something that's affecting his game, whereas you don't hear about that with Allen or Mahomes.
Josh Allen has been dealing with a shoulder injury the last few weeks. He had 2 INT’s just last week.

Allen dealt with an elbow injury last year. Google claims it started in November 6th and was an issue the rest of the season.

Mahommes dislocated his patella in 2019.
Turf Toe in 2021
Bone Bruise on foot in 2022.
Ankle injury in the most recent playoffs.

And yet Joe Burrow has missed the better part of two separate years with injury.

That's all I really need to know. That, in addition to his nagging injuries that affect his play greatly, he'll miss two half-seasons in separate years.
This was the conversation on McCaffery 2 years ago. He wasn't having the same injury over and over, just different significant injuries. He seems to be avoiding them just fine now.

Again, Burrow lost time due to an ACL and a torn wrist ligament tear. 1-hit injuries that can happen to any quarterback. The significant missed time are just getting hit at the right place, the right time, the right way. There's really nothing regarding those injuries that would be predictive of future injuries. ACL grafts are often stronger than the original ACL.

Again, nagging injuries can and do happen to anyone. You ding Burrow for the calf affecting his play. Allen had an elbow injury that affected his play. Allen currently has a shoulder injury. I guess you can argue it's not affecting his play, but he's thrown 3 INT's the last few weeks. Are we sure the shoulder isn't a factor? Then you say all you need to know is he missed time. So are we dinging Burrow for nagging injuries that affect his play but giving Allen a pass since at least he isn't missing time?

I respect you and your opinions. Not trying to give you a hard time. I think you've made up your mind, and I think a lot of other people are going to have this mindset--which probably leads to Burrow being a great value next season. And I'm not going to worry about him any more than Josh Allen.
 
It’s unlikely the Bengals were hiding an injury. It doesn’t make sense.

First of all, Burrow was zipping the ball around with a ton of velocity in pre-game warmups like he always does. He has a habit of dropping his wrist as he releases the ball (like many QBs, especially in warmups), but his is rather pronounced. It didn’t look like there was any kind of discomfort, at all.

Secondly, Burrow had no “brace” on in warmups & obviously not in live action. You mean to tell me he needed a flimsy brace to ride on a bus, but not to play football? There were reports the thing he had on was a glove to work with his iPad, but I can’t really comment on that.

Lastly, even if his wrist was sore, it’s not necessarily an injury. Players have all kinds of bumps, bruises, & soreness that doesn’t get reported. It happens hundreds of times during the season.

This seems to be stemming mostly from gambling & the people who lost money, but it’s probably as simple as Burrow fell awkwardly & hurt his wrist during the game (which you can clearly see). The Bengals’ media staff likely deleted the photo because people were talking about a “brace” & Burrow being injured. I don’t think anything comes of this. It just doesn’t add up, IMO.
I think you're probably right.

After hearing about the brace in the pictures, and having lost multiple bets related to the injury--my immediate reaction was to think he came in with a bad wrist. But thinking more about it, it doesn't make sense that he was fine on his initial throws and suddenly couldn't grip the ball. I haven't seen the hit/fall, but that makes way more sense.
 
ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports the NFL is investigating why the Bengals did not include Joe Burrow on their Week 11 injury report.

The team’s social media account quickly deleted a Wednesday night video of Burrow wearing some kind of protective device on his right hand and wrist after he did not appear on the team’s injury report. Burrow then aggravated the injury Thursday night against the Ravens and missed the second half while in clear discomfort. “The NFL routinely looks into matters of compliance with the Injury Report policy, and will do so in this instance as well,” Schefter said. “Teams can be fined or even potentially lose a draft pick.” This could be a major, ongoing issue for the Bengals in what has become a lost season.
I'm annoyed at the situation.

Fantasy wise, I wouldn't have done anything differently. I benched him in some leagues where I had other good options. If he was active, I was playing him in the others.

Vegas-Wise...

I took the Bengals to cover +7.5 after the Ravens 1st touchdown (thinking Burrow was fine).
I took a Boosted Fanduel bet for Burrow and Jackson to each have 200+ passing yards and 1+ passing TD's (thinking Burrow was fine)
I had a parlay that was really conservative with Chase at 50+ yards and Boyd at 40+ yards (again, thinking Burrow was fine).

I get it. Gambling is gambling. Burrow could have been injured on a hit similar to Andrews.
But he wasn't.

You bet based on the available information. If I'd known he had a sore throwing wrist going into the game, I'm not touching any of those.

Don't tell us, tell Fanduel. Tell the NFL. Tell the Bengals.
 
I respect you and your opinions. Not trying to give you a hard time

No sweat. Same here to the first and I don't think it's that hard of a time that you're giving me, actually. I think it's an honest intellectual disagreement, centering around the below quote

This was the conversation on McCaffery 2 years ago. He wasn't having the same injury over and over, just different significant injuries. He seems to be avoiding them just fine now.

I guess it comes down to whether or not we think guys can be injury-prone. I'm a little old school about it as opposed to analytically inclined. I think that a person can be susceptible to injury at a greater rate than a different person. I also think Joe Burrow is beginning to qualify as susceptible, and therefore I would worry about him more than, say, a Josh Allen. Not that Allen won't get injured, but he's missed much fewer games in a much longer time than Burrow has been playing. I think that the proof is in the pudding, so to speak.

So we'll have to agree to disagree on that fundamental underlying concept which is coloring our attitude towards the player.
 
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I still don't get the "we have a right to be informed about injuries" stuff. Do you want them to tell their gameplan too? "Well if I'd have known they only planned on giving the ball to my running back 3 out of 28 attempts, I wouldn't have lost my prop bet and fantasy game! 😭"

There are many, many unknowns and random-outcome things going on. You have just as much chance to win due to an unknown unjury than to lose due to one, in the long run.
 
If you thought Chase might be dynasty WR1 over Jefferson (I didn't, but if you did) because of the QB situation, Burrow's tendency toward injury has to be concerning and probably dispels that notion.

Burrow gets hurt quite a bit. This latest just seals it.

Random variance.
This. The number of injuries and number of years we're dealing with are just way too small of a sample size. Granted, I do think it's possible for certain players to be more injury-prone than others, but I don't think the sample sizes yield particularly compelling evidence in almost any case. If you bought a set of 5 dice and rolled them all 10 times, and one of them came up "4" 6 times, do you just assume it has to be a crooked die? No, crazy stuff is expected to happen in random samples.
 
It’s unlikely the Bengals were hiding an injury. It doesn’t make sense.

First of all, Burrow was zipping the ball around with a ton of velocity in pre-game warmups like he always does. He has a habit of dropping his wrist as he releases the ball (like many QBs, especially in warmups), but his is rather pronounced. It didn’t look like there was any kind of discomfort, at all.

Secondly, Burrow had no “brace” on in warmups & obviously not in live action. You mean to tell me he needed a flimsy brace to ride on a bus, but not to play football? There were reports the thing he had on was a glove to work with his iPad, but I can’t really comment on that.

Lastly, even if his wrist was sore, it’s not necessarily an injury. Players have all kinds of bumps, bruises, & soreness that doesn’t get reported. It happens hundreds of times during the season.

This seems to be stemming mostly from gambling & the people who lost money, but it’s probably as simple as Burrow fell awkwardly & hurt his wrist during the game (which you can clearly see). The Bengals’ media staff likely deleted the photo because people were talking about a “brace” & Burrow being injured. I don’t think anything comes of this. It just doesn’t add up, IMO.
The Bengals put the brace pic on their Twitter account.
How many reporters posted pics of the brace in pregame?
Do you not have Twitter? This is odd, man. It's literally all over there
I’m not sure what you’re saying. Burrow didn’t have the “brace” on in warmups (at least when he was throwing). The video showed him slinging the ball like he usually does, dropping his wrist in a pronounced fashion, etc.

If he had a boo-boo on his wrist, it wasn’t an injury. The injury clearly happened when he fell after getting hit (I think it was the play before the TD pass).

And if the Bengals were trying to hide an injury, having him wear & flimsy elastic brace in public that essentially does nothing would be really dumb. Sounds like this is a big nothingburger.
 
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Granted, I do think it's possible for certain players to be more injury-prone than others, but I don't think the sample sizes yield particularly compelling evidence in almost any case. If you bought a set of 5 dice and rolled them all 10 times, and one of them came up "4" 6 times, do you just assume it has to be a crooked die? No, crazy stuff is expected to happen in random samples.
I think the term 'injury prone' needs to just go away, because you cannot prove someone is, it's just something people assign to players, usually when that player was previously on their fantasy team. It's not a 'real' thing.

The major issue we have as fans, is using injury history as a data point, with sample sizes. We all assume that when a player is no longer injured, they go right back to where they were, and the injured part of their body goes right back to 100%, with no lingering affects, and no changes to his performance.

Some injuries are a single roll of the dice, affected by nothing, with no long term effects. And some players come back too quick, re-injures something, don't rehab enough, whatever. This is the 2nd time Burrow has broken a bone in his wrist. The wrist on his throwing hand. That definitely makes me nervous.
 
I think the term 'injury prone' needs to just go away, because you cannot prove someone is

Yet you can't disprove it, either. It's simply my assertion against yours at that point. What we do have is received wisdom. Empirical evidence points to the simple fact that some guys get hurt more than others. There are guys I can think of off the top of my head that are always suffering an ailment of some sort. Will Fuller, Parris Campbell, etc. Guys that just cannot stay on the field. At a certain point, you call them injury prone for lack of a better term of art and you're done with it.

Usually I like data and analysis; in this case I'm willing to listen to received wisdom about bodies, humanity, and the differences in bodily tolerance for both injury and pain.
 

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