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QB Kyler Murray, ARZ (1 Viewer)

Andy Dufresne said:
In a division with George Kittle (and a couple other good TEs), this is primarily what Simmons is for...

"The Cardinals allowed a league-high 1,173 receiving yards, 8.9 yards per target and 16 touchdowns to opposing tight ends last season. According to Elias research, only the 2013 Cardinals allowed more touchdowns from tight ends in a single season (17) in NFL history."
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So if they lose Kyler for the season but they are the best team in league history at defending TE how many games do you think they'll win. You want to win with Kyler Murray you put an elite line around that's deep too. Then sit back and watch the magic happen. 

They could have turned their OL completely around. Instead they have an overrated tweener at OLB. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
In a division with George Kittle (and a couple other good TEs), this is primarily what Simmons is for...

"The Cardinals allowed a league-high 1,173 receiving yards, 8.9 yards per target and 16 touchdowns to opposing tight ends last season. According to Elias research, only the 2013 Cardinals allowed more touchdowns from tight ends in a single season (17) in NFL history."
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You can make a case for Simmons and for an OT since they used two first-round picks on quarterbacks in consecutive years and their rookie QB got sacked a league-leading amount and got injured late last year.  Heck many mocks had them taking a WR which a case can be made even after Hopkins trade but the investment at QB and the amount of sacks coupled with a crop of OTs.  I thought they would take OT.

They took Simmons so they wanted him but they took an OT so they wanted him.  Both picks addressed needs.

Milkman said:
Taking a OT that starts out on the right side and moves to LT in a few years sounds like a great move by a franchise looking at protecting their most valuable asset longterm. 

Hopefully they don't pay the ultimate price......
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The Browns will make the switch and confidently plan to start rookie OT Jedrick Wills on the left side.

The Browns had already signed ORT Jack Conklin to a contract higher than Humphries and had re-signed starting ORT Chris Hubbard who they signed to a high contract two years ago before drafting ORT Jed Wills with the intent to move-him to the left side and start him as a rookie.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/05/bill-callahan-not-scared-of-starting-jedrick-wills-right-away-and-3-other-things-we-learned-from-the-browns-offensive-line-coach.html

...Callahan said throwing Wills into the fire early doesn’t scare him.

“I’m quite confident he’s capable of being our left tackle,” he said. “They’re going to go through some lumps and they’re going to have times when they’re going to get beat, but the best in the game get beat.”

...This is nothing new to Callahan, who coached Tyron Smith in Dallas, a player who switched from right to left tackle after his rookie season. He also pointed to Barry Sims, an undrafted player he coached in Oakland who he turned into a left tackle when the team was in a bind.

“From a muscle memory standpoint, you’ve got to get into a groove and a lot of that depends on the training and the reps and all that,” Callahan said,
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A young player hasn't deeply embedded muscle-memory of an older veteran player like Conklin so it will be 'easier' for him to make the switch.  But back to Kyler.  NFL GMs prioritize QB, pass-rusher, then blind-side protector.  Simmons is a bit of a wild card in he needs the right scheme to be utilized effectively. 

 
Arizona is copying the Seattle example of "skimp on OL because you have a mobile QB". The best Seattle's done is bring in a late career Duane Brown - the rest have been average at absolute best.

Murray will just have to learn how to get rid of the ball earlier. Or just take the hits like Wilson.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Arizona is copying the Seattle example of "skimp on OL because you have a mobile QB". The best Seattle's done is bring in a late career Duane Brown - the rest have been average at absolute best.

Murray will just have to learn how to get rid of the ball earlier. Or just take the hits like Wilson.
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That's unfortunate if true........Kyler Murray is probably a top 5 asset in all of football. I almost have to downgrade Kyler a bit after seeing how Arizona drafted. They just aren't a very well run organization that's going to put him in the best possible position to succeed. 

 
To me the Cardinals should be trying to replicate the success the Ravens had last year. I feel like an offense should try getting the most out of a qb's running ability by making the defense account for it at all times; helps the running backs and the passing game too. Will Kliggsberger do it? No, he won't. 

 
cloppbeast said:
To me the Cardinals should be trying to replicate the success the Ravens had last year. I feel like an offense should try getting the most out of a qb's running ability by making the defense account for it at all times; helps the running backs and the passing game too. Will Kliggsberger do it? No, he won't. 
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Those are to very different QB. Yes both can run but only one of them has elite arm talent. They are built differently too. I like the Seattle model better for Kyler's development (minus the part where they ignore the OL). Kyler should be a pocket QB that takes off and runs when the defense gives it to him. He's a lot faster than Wilson and defenses will have to respect that. 

 
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Milkman said:
Those are to very different QB. Yes both can run but only one of them has elite arm talent. They are built differently too. I like the Seattle model better for Kyler's development (minus the part where they ignore the OL). Kyler should be a pocket QB that takes off and runs when the defense gives it to him. He's a lot faster than Wilson and defenses will have to respect that. 
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Russell Wilson and Josh Allen are examples of qbs who can run but not really the reason for their success. Basically they can run when the defense let's them. 

Kyler and Lamar, if they werent qbs they would still make a team as rbs or wrs. Kyler isnt as elusive as Lamar, so it would look a little different. He's a lot a faster tho. Not sure about his field awareness either so I wouldn't do that to him if he's taking shots all the time. Maybe you could work on that too.

I'm not saying he can't be a pocket passer, although don't think it's a given. I just think his God given talent is being wasted when you can use it to help the whole team. A running play 10 vs. 10 is better than 10 vs. 11. Almost 10% better.

 
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cloppbeast said:
To me the Cardinals should be trying to replicate the success the Ravens had last year. I feel like an offense should try getting the most out of a qb's running ability by making the defense account for it at all times; helps the running backs and the passing game too. Will Kliggsberger do it? No, he won't. 
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The Ravens had one of the league's most efficient offensive lines in the NFL. That unit played a key in helping quarterback Lamar Jackson put together an MVP season. 
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cloppbeast said:
Russell Wilson and Josh Allen are examples of qbs who can run but not really the reason for their success. Basically they can run when the defense let's them. 

Kyler and Lamar, if they werent qbs they would still make a team as rbs or wrs. Kyler isnt as elusive as Lamar, so it would look a little different. He's a lot a faster tho. Not sure about his field awareness either so I wouldn't do that to him if he's taking shots all the time. Maybe you could work on that too.

I'm not saying he can't be a pocket passer, although don't think it's a given. I just think his God given talent is being wasted when you can use it to help the whole team. A running play 10 vs. 10 is better than 10 vs. 11. Almost 10% better.
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Despite the increased efficiency I imagine Baltimore will run Lamar Jackson less and less as the years go by. He won't stand up to that punishment. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
I think you're confusing Kyler with Tua. Kyler is right handed.

If Simmons wasn't the pick there are several other options. Assuming he went before their pick then possibly Okudah or Brown wild be available. Rumors were they were hot over Brown. CJ Henderson would fit. So would Kinlaw. Their defense was terrible and almost anyone would help.

I'll admit, there wasn't a ZERO chance of them taking a tackle. But it was really low considering the Humphries signing and defensive needs. Taking a right tackle that high wouldn't and didn't make sense - no matter what the pundits were opining.
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Okudah wouldn't be there.  I suppose Brown mi ght have been.  Kinlaw at 8 would have been a massive reach.  I think Henderson would have been a very poor pick at 8 too. (didn't like him even at 9).

A lot of people were shocked the Cards didn't take an OT there.  It's hard to say the way the board fell, but say Tua slid, the best options at pick 8 might have been:  Tua, one of the many OT, Henderson or Kinlaw.  If that had happened I think there's a "Zero" percent chance they DONT take a tackle.

 
Josh Jones was a steal in the 3rd. They still heavily invested in OL. And Simmons might help fix a defense so the Offense gets better field position. As a Murray owner, I was bummed they took Simmons, but I started hoping they would trade up for Jones in 2nd. He fell in their lap.

 
Kenyan Drake: Cardinals are going to 'take the league by storm'

Excerpts:

These Cardinals are all about speed. Murray won Offensive Rookie of the Year by using his rare talents to post a completion percentage of 64.4, a 20-12 touchdown-to-interception ratio and a passer rating of 87.4. His 62 rushes in which he reached 15-plus mph were the most in the NFL (minimum 50 rushes), according to Next Gen Stats. That combination is a nightmare for opposing defenses.
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There's room for growth for Murray, too, as evidenced by Murray's -1.5 completion percentage under expectation, according to Next Gen Stats.

One area of improvement for Murray is his play when under duress. The mobile quarterback wasn't pressured often, but when he was, he was among the league's worst in advanced metrics. Murray posted a -19 completion percentage under expectation when pressured and a passer rating of just 42.3 in such situations. An important detail lingers, though: Murray only attempted 29 passes under pressure in 2019, leaving little room for error but also revealing an area in which he can get better.
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I heard on local radio today that Murray invited all the skill players (RB's WR's and TE's) to Texas to train with him for a few weeks. He's covering the cost for everyone, and every player showed up.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
You are right, I was confusing Tau with Kyler.  The Browns needed an OLT and didn't hesitate to take Jed.  He 'figured' he would be asked to make the move to the left side and had been consulting with former Browns OLT Joe Thomas leading up to the draft on pointers and new Browns O-Line coach and coaching legend Bill Calahan says he's going to start on the left-side and he thinks he will be a great fit.

And thank you for admitting their wasn't a zero-percent chance of them taking an OT.  I truly do believe they were going to take Jed and am still shocked they took Simmons who I really like.  Arizona has been effectively using safeties up-in-the-box for years since former Cardinal DC Todd Bowles had to when faced with multiple injuries at LB.  I thought they would use Simmons that way but they announced the plan was to settle him in to one position his rookie year, OLB.  Maybe they plan to use him more as an EDGE because if not then the pick is even more puzzling to me.
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Bracie corrected himself in his very next post, after Andy D pointed out his mistake. No need to be harsh.

 
Will Kyler Murray live up to the hype (and his lofty fantasy draft cost) in 2020?

Excerpt:

Kyler Murray was the seventh-highest scoring fantasy QB as a rookie. He’s being selected as the fifth QB this year. Is his upside worth proactively drafting or are you waiting on a QB in the classic analyst move?

Matt: Kyle Murray doesn’t really have holes in his outlook. He plays for a progressive offensive mind who was flexible enough to adjust when injuries struck his receiver corps last year. The team added a true alpha No. 1 wide receiver in DeAndre Hopkins. Not only will the former Texan provide a major boost to Murray as a passer, but he’s also a true coverage-dictating wide receiver who will boost the efficiency of the entire offensive unit by the opportunities he creates for others.

Murray is also already one of the best rushing quarterbacks in the game. He has access to a tremendous ceiling in addition to the safe floor he showed last year. That said, his draft price as the QB5 overall and therefore a mid-round pick (Round 5-7) in almost every draft puts him in a range where I won’t personally click his name simply because of the opportunity cost. But I’ll never talk you out of doing it based on the player.

Andy: Another way to look at this is that Murray was a top-8 fantasy QB in a season in which he only threw 20 touchdown passes and his top receiver finished with only 804 yards. His team has since added DeAndre [Expletive] Hopkins, one of Earth’s finest receivers. Murray’s upside as a runner is obvious, as he just averaged 5.8 YPC and very nearly led the Cards in rush yards. He benefits from year-to-year system and coaching continuity, too. He’s an easy bet for a top-5 finish. I’m in.

Scott: I see all the pro angles for Murray, but because the last two MVPs were sophomore year breakouts (Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson), I suspect the market has been an eyelash too proactive with Murray. There is nothing wrong with sticking a flag on the Arizona quarterback, but I see values that intrigue me more. As usual, the quarterback board is loaded with juiciness.
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In the few leagues I own him savvy owners have tried to trade for him.  I stayed put even in a league where I own Russell Wilson.  It's not like the guy was serious with his offers anyway. 

 
Kyler has got win your league upside. Arizona struggled in the redzone last year and they traded for one of the better redzone WR in the league. Hoping Hopkins can keep his head on straight. Rumor has it he isn't the easiest to work with behind the scenes. Hence the trade out of Houston. 

4000 yards 35 TD passing plus double digit rushing scores are all in his range.....

Of course he could take a step back like Baker did as well but I have more confidence in the Arizona coaching staff than last years coaching staff in Cleveland. 

 
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I just read through this thread and it's the Lamar Jackson thread all over again. Even with many of the same posters. I am expecting Kyler to go off this year. Probably 4500/30 and 600/6 on the ground as a floor

 
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Traded him away sadly but I didn't want too. He's going to blow up and when everyone looks back at that rookie draft they are going to realize he should have been drafted a lot earlier. 

 
Milkman said:
12 team PPR 6 point passing TD DYNASTY 

START QRRWWWTFKD

I traded Kyler Murray + Preston Williams + 2021 1st for Patrick Mahomes. 
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Wow. That's the trade you were talking about that you saw in the other thread, or...that's the one where you broke down the trade value that Hindery did, remember?

 
Milkman said:
Yes same trade. 
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Most people liked your end. Why didn't you take credit for it and instead insisted on the value of the side the guy got? I totally believe you made the trade, BTW. You've been preaching Murray and talked about being out in the P. Williams thread. Nice work. I think Kyler might be a long-term dynasty dynamo even over Mahomes, but I still like your end.

 
rockaction said:
Most people liked your end. Why didn't you take credit for it and instead insisted on the value of the side the guy got? I totally believe you made the trade, BTW. You've been preaching Murray and talked about being out in the P. Williams thread. Nice work. I think Kyler might be a long-term dynasty dynamo even over Mahomes, but I still like your end.
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I just felt it was an overpay and they didn't think so. I knew I was getting the higher ranked player and it was a 3 for 1 so I get their side too. Kyler could easily outscore Mahomes this year though. It's in his range of possible outcomes. 

 
Milkman said:
I just felt it was an overpay and they didn't think so. I knew I was getting the higher ranked player and it was a 3 for 1 so I get their side too. Kyler could easily outscore Mahomes this year though. It's in his range of possible outcomes. 
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Sure thing. I almost took the other guy's side but was dissuaded. You got a semi-sure thing in Mahomes, barring that kneecap issue he had last year. There is no sure thing, actually, and you're right about Murray, but I still like him better than Williams, Murray, and a first -- you don't know how the first will turn out and they're tougher to gauge this upcoming year because you won't have this year's tape for a bunch of guys.  

 
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