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QB Kyler Murray, ARZ (1 Viewer)

Cardinals should cut the cord on this guy now and trade him before his stock falls even more.  You can't have your QB being this bad of a leader and this much of a drama king, especially when he has shown that he is not durable and repeatedly comes up small in big moments.   

 
Cardinals should cut the cord on this guy now and trade him before his stock falls even more.  You can't have your QB being this bad of a leader and this much of a drama king, especially when he has shown that he is not durable and repeatedly comes up small in big moments.   
If he can clear his legal troubles, maybe a QB swap with the Texans.

 
He's like, 25 or so and has only been in the league three years. He's been a more than competent QB. Why are people so quick to write his obit? 

He's a wildly talented guy. 

 
Murray didn't have a Cooper Kupp or an OBJ. He had a Van Jefferson (Kirk). I'd like to see him with Hopkins for a couple years before I make a decision about his future. Right now he has a lot of talent, and we don't know if he can carry a team or be a piece to the puzzle. Either way, I think he can win a title. I just don't know how much help he needs to get there. 

 
I just don't know how much help he needs to get there. 
Josh Allen in 2021

6yr/$258M

$16.5M signing bonus(2021), $150M guaranteed 

$42M+ Bonus (2022) in essence almost $60M is signing bonus over the first 13 months of the contract 

Pretty sure this is how much help Murray needs to friend the Cardinals again on social media. 

Pretty sure this is why Arizona wants to put this off another year if they can but it's time, that area between year 3 and year 4 where players suddenly get thin skin and their feelings hurt if a big fat contract isn't put right in front of their noses. 

 
According to NFL Network's Mike Garafolo, Kyler Murray refused to go back into the team's playoff loss to the Rams in the fourth quarter.

"Case in point, the playoff game here, a minute left and the game had been decided, and backup Colt McCoy encouraged Murray to finish the game with his teammates. A banged-up Murray said no, that’s it, I’m done. so I know a lot of Cardinals folks were not happy with that one,” Garafolo reported. Despite the organization's statement that "nothing has changed" regarding their high regard for Murray, this is the kind of cold war you don't really want to have brewing with your franchise quarterback who is extension-eligible this offseason in the fourth year of his rookie deal. The clouds over the Arizona situation have been gathering for a bit, portending an interesting offseason at the very least. For what it's worth, Ian Rapoport also said Monday that "he is going to be the Arizona Cardinals quarterback for next year."

SOURCE: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

Feb 15, 2022, 3:13 PM ET

 
Cardinals should cut the cord on this guy now and trade him before his stock falls even more.  You can't have your QB being this bad of a leader and this much of a drama king, especially when he has shown that he is not durable and repeatedly comes up small in big moments.   


He's 24 with 1 career playoff game.  How many "big moments" have there really been?

 
Josh Allen in 2021

6yr/$258M

$16.5M signing bonus(2021), $150M guaranteed 

$42M+ Bonus (2022) in essence almost $60M is signing bonus over the first 13 months of the contract 

Pretty sure this is how much help Murray needs to friend the Cardinals again on social media. 

Pretty sure this is why Arizona wants to put this off another year if they can but it's time, that area between year 3 and year 4 where players suddenly get thin skin and their feelings hurt if a big fat contract isn't put right in front of their noses. 
I know we have a huge recency bias in our discussions here but there's no way you can back that kind of Brinks truck up to Murray's door now. Granted it's the Rams DEF but it's looking like his cheat code may have been decoded. The Hopkins injury was a blow but it's not like this team was completely devoid of options without him.

 
According to NFL Network's Mike Garafolo, Kyler Murray refused to go back into the team's playoff loss to the Rams in the fourth quarter.
That's a pretty disturbing story and when Colt McCoy is trying to guide you on what to do...it all adds up to his actions on social media, he's frustrated. When he says "we weren't even competitive" it's an indictment on the entire team not just the QB position. 

 
He's 24 with 1 career playoff game.  How many "big moments" have there really been?
3 long seasons in an Arizona uniform, must feel like 10 to him. 

You see what happened with Matt Stafford, he doesn't want to waste his best years...likely can also still play Baseball and have a lot more years of income, or he can get $250M in the form of a contract and ease his mind about getting injured. 

That play where he missed some games, go back and look at that injury to his knee I think? Maybe it was his ankle but I thought he tore up his knee making a cut and...the writing is on the wall, most QBs are like double his size, it's a brutal game. 

 
Kirby Puckett had a decent career.
True, and what a great career, but there very few and far between at this height. The said, Kyler looks pretty natural swinging a bat in the highlights I saw. The rare smooth righty swing. His OPS his senior year was around .950, so that's really impressive, though I don't know exactly how that OPS translates to the pros. 

But he's also 24 now, which is old for baseball. 

Whatever. More power to him. He looks like a natural in both sports, if a bit dwarfish for quarterback. 

 
Murray didn't have a Cooper Kupp or an OBJ. He had a Van Jefferson (Kirk). I'd like to see him with Hopkins for a couple years before I make a decision about his future. Right now he has a lot of talent, and we don't know if he can carry a team or be a piece to the puzzle. Either way, I think he can win a title. I just don't know how much help he needs to get there. 
They all need a ton of help. Team game. Aaron Rogers is the best QB in this league and can’t do it alone. 
 

These teams are al just built poorly. They favor offense to such an extent that they inflate their numbers and the salaries skyrocket and some of the skill players leave for more money. 

 
Faust said:


I like Cosell quite a bit but I don't really understand this.

Murray has had is TD% increase every year, his completion % increase every year, his INT% drop, average yards per attempt increase, net yards per attempt increase, his QB rating increase every year.... and most importantly his team wins increase every year. How can anyone say he hasn't shown significant improvement? He's improved in just about every single aspect of his game. 

People sure have short memories. The big knock on Murray is he hasn't gone far enough in the playoffs? Does anyone remember what the Cardinals were before Murray got there? They hadn't had a team above .500 since Carson Palmer was a thing.

These reports seem like a tank job from a team that doesn't want to pay Murray, to me. He's 24yo and has improved every year and I'd be willing to bet there are plenty of teams looking at this rookie QB class that are more than willing to pay Murray. Can you imagine the Steelers with Murray instead of Ben last year, just as one example?

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
They all need a ton of help. Team game. Aaron Rogers is the best QB in this league and can’t do it alone. 
 

These teams are al just built poorly. They favor offense to such an extent that they inflate their numbers and the salaries skyrocket and some of the skill players leave for more money. 
I don't think Rodgers is a great example. He's a fair part of the reason they keep losing in the playoffs. He seems to be more worried about his QBR than slinging it around to win a game. Rodgers might be the best regular-season QB. He's simply not as effective in the playoffs imo. 

 
Cardinals owner Michael Bidwell said he "loves" Kyler Murray and "knows he's going to get better." 

Saying your team's excellent dual-threat quarterback will "get better" is a bit of a backhanded compliment during a time of strife between Murray and the Cardinals organization. ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported this month that Murray is "frustrated" with the team after their humiliating Wild Card loss to the Rams. A team source told Mortensen that Murray is "self-centered, immature, and a finger pointer." Everything is fine. Bidwell this week said the team has had "good conversations nonstop" with Murray since the season ended. Happy or not, Murray will be back under center for Arizona in 2022, fresh off posting a career low interception rate and a career high TD rate and adjusted yards per attempt in 2021. Murray was fourth among all QBs in adjusted expected points added (EPA) per play before his Week 8 ankle injury. 

SOURCE: Bob McManaman on Twitter 

Feb 25, 2022, 10:27 AM ET

 
Cardinals GM Steve Keim said he has no concerns about Kyler Murray sitting out the 2022 season if he doesn't receive a contract extension.

Keim was amicable about the situation, stating, "That's just an agent doing his job." Murray's agent released a lengthy statement over the weekend that included a demand for a long-term contract extension. The statement came off the heels of reports that Murray growing frustrated with his organization while some within the organization viewed him as "self-centered, immature, and a finger pointer." Keim added that the Cardinals will absolutely be picking up the quarterback's fifth-year option. He closed the conversation on Murray's contract by saying the rest of the saga will be kept out of the media's spotlight. Though we're sure he would like that, this won't be the last time we hear of the situation. 

SOURCE: Adam Beasley on Twitter

Mar 1, 2022, 3:17 PM ET

 
I don't know if he's good enough to win titles but he's good enough to want to avoid playing on an expiring contract isn't he? What are the chances he follows the Kirk Cousins' playbook in this situation?

 
Man, tough crowd.

Burrow: 4611yds, 70% completion, 8.9ypa, 36 TD, 14 INT, 108 rtg

Prorated out from 14 games to 16 to match Burrow...

Murray: 4342yds, 70% completion, 7.9ypa, 33 TD, 10 INT, 101 rtg

Really not that huge of a difference such that one is considered the next great superstar while the other is a bum not worthy of a 2nd deal.  They both got hot for half the year, one was just at the beginning of the year and the other at the end.  Obviously Burrow gets a ton of cred for the Bengals postseason run too, as he should.

 
Man, tough crowd.

Burrow: 4611yds, 70% completion, 8.9ypa, 36 TD, 14 INT, 108 rtg

Prorated out from 14 games to 16 to match Burrow...

Murray: 4342yds, 70% completion, 7.9ypa, 33 TD, 10 INT, 101 rtg

Really not that huge of a difference such that one is considered the next great superstar while the other is a bum not worthy of a 2nd deal.  They both got hot for half the year, one was just at the beginning of the year and the other at the end.  Obviously Burrow gets a ton of cred for the Bengals postseason run too, as he should.
Also Murray runs wild. It's almost like there's some sort of double standard of criticisms when it comes to some players.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Man, tough crowd.

Burrow: 4611yds, 70% completion, 8.9ypa, 36 TD, 14 INT, 108 rtg

Prorated out from 14 games to 16 to match Burrow...

Murray: 4342yds, 70% completion, 7.9ypa, 33 TD, 10 INT, 101 rtg

Really not that huge of a difference such that one is considered the next great superstar while the other is a bum not worthy of a 2nd deal.  They both got hot for half the year, one was just at the beginning of the year and the other at the end.  Obviously Burrow gets a ton of cred for the Bengals postseason run too, as he should.
 
Being a franchise QB requires more than just great stats.  I remember hearing rumors that one of the reasons Larry Fitzgerald didn't come back to the Cardinals was that he disliked Murray (and his dad's comments this week seem to make that rumor seem true), and take this for what it's worth, but Colin Cowherd (who is usually pretty reliable on the rare occasions when he reports stuff like this) said he talked to an ex-QB who was down in Scottsdale this week who said not many close to the team have much good to say about Murray the person.  

 
Another pertinent difference between Murray and Burrow is that Burrow isn't looking for an "anoint me" type contract this year. If the Cards can sign Murray to something less than an "all in" extension, they likely should. That might be tricky...

 
I like Cosell quite a bit but I don't really understand this.

Murray has had is TD% increase every year, his completion % increase every year, his INT% drop, average yards per attempt increase, net yards per attempt increase, his QB rating increase every year.... and most importantly his team wins increase every year. How can anyone say he hasn't shown significant improvement? He's improved in just about every single aspect of his game. 

People sure have short memories. The big knock on Murray is he hasn't gone far enough in the playoffs? Does anyone remember what the Cardinals were before Murray got there? They hadn't had a team above .500 since Carson Palmer was a thing.

These reports seem like a tank job from a team that doesn't want to pay Murray, to me. He's 24yo and has improved every year and I'd be willing to bet there are plenty of teams looking at this rookie QB class that are more than willing to pay Murray. Can you imagine the Steelers with Murray instead of Ben last year, just as one example?
I Cosell also but his opinions about QB play are ancient and consistent.

As he says in the article Faust posted, he thinks a QB needs to throw from the pocket. Murray is a short QB so thats not a strength of his compared to the taller less mobile QB that Cosell seems to be stuck on.

I think Cosells opinions are valuable but its hard for me to trust them when it comes to QB play ever since he was talking about Zach Mettenberger being a better prospect than Teddy Bridgewater pretty much purely based on Arm strength.

 
I Cosell also but his opinions about QB play are ancient and consistent.

As he says in the article Faust posted, he thinks a QB needs to throw from the pocket. Murray is a short QB so thats not a strength of his compared to the taller less mobile QB that Cosell seems to be stuck on.

I think Cosells opinions are valuable but its hard for me to trust them when it comes to QB play ever since he was talking about Zach Mettenberger being a better prospect than Teddy Bridgewater pretty much purely based on Arm strength.
That's a fair point and I actually remember the specific Mettenberger evaluation you mentioned. 

What a lot of the "old guard" QB evaluators fail to factor into the equation is a mobile guy(not talking about Lamar Jackson type yards) turns an absolute awful OL that takes 3 years to fix in the draft serviceable much more quickly and puts so much more pressure on the defense when you run the ball. I meant it when I asked if people could imagine Murray in PIT instead of big ben last season. IMO they have just as good a chance to get to win the AFC as CIN he would make that much difference. And CIN nearly won the whole thing. 

Of course I've also always pushed back against the "leadership" argument unless you are publicly calling out teammates, missing games because of poor decision making, etc and that opinion goes all the way back to Jeff George. If George is going to put the ball on your chest but you aren't going to catch it because you don't respect him.... I don't think George is the problem in that equation. There are plenty of HOF/SB QB's that have been accused of being arrogant jack holes over the years. Winning solves all of that. At least it usually solves all that.

It just strikes me as ironic that Murray is being singled out for "finger pointing". Well, if someone is singling out Murray..... isn't that the definition OF FINGER POINTING?! If the Cardinals think they have a SB roster and Murray is holding them back they should trade him and try one of these rookie QB's. It hasn't been all that long ago they were on that carousel.

 
I don't know if he's good enough to win titles but he's good enough to want to avoid playing on an expiring contract isn't he? What are the chances he follows the Kirk Cousins' playbook in this situation?


At the end of the day I don't think it's so much a case of Murray going to the Cousins playbook nearly as much as it is the Cardinals going to the DAL playbook in their negotiations with Dak. Sure, ARZ "controls" Murray for the next several seasons. But there are already three QB's being paid between $40-45MIL/season right now. In the next couple of years Rodgers/Burrow/Herbert are going to be signing extensions and it's pretty reasonable to expect the salary cap to continue to go up.

The only way ARZ "wins" here is if Murray completely reverses course on his ascension and the Cards stink for the next couple of years and they dodge a bullet because they never gave him his big contract. The Cardinals have won their division 3 times over the past 45 years so they haven't had to pay a franchise QB very often the past half century or so..... there may be different ways of defining winning I suppose. It would certainly be cheaper to go back to the Leinart-go-round and look for another QB on a rookie deal.

If the Rams have taught us anything imo it is you can overcome paying way, way too much for a guy. And they did it TWICE with Gurley and Goff. Giving a guy a terrible contract hurts you but doesn't kill you. If you honestly believe that the guy isn't "THE GUY" then moving on from him makes the most sense to me. With the rookie(and FA) QB's that are out on the market right now you can get a kings ransom for Murray right now. But why would they leak all this stuff if they wanted to trade him? I think they are being cheap and hope they get Dak'ed, personally.

 
Tweet below was from last night after the Davante Adams trade and kind of blew under the radar but it's Kylers(and Kliffs) agent accusing the team of not being committed.When you consider the power play that Watson just pulled I think people are mistaken if they believe this problem is not going to turn into a major freaking deal if they don't extend him. And considering how he's behaved and if he's looking for a Watson type contract what a dilemma for the Cardinals.

@ErikBurkhardt

Wait, so you’re telling me teams w (already) paid QBs can also pay: Highest paid WR, 2 highly paid DEs, one of highest paid OTs, highly paid TE, well paid RBs… and then also still REUP QB as one of the highest paid?! It’s a CHOICE. A choice to TRY to win. Or not. #Commitment

https://twitter.com/ErikBurkhardt/status/1504622221754523650

 
Tweet below was from last night after the Davante Adams trade and kind of blew under the radar but it's Kylers(and Kliffs) agent accusing the team of not being committed.When you consider the power play that Watson just pulled I think people are mistaken if they believe this problem is not going to turn into a major freaking deal if they don't extend him. And considering how he's behaved and if he's looking for a Watson type contract what a dilemma for the Cardinals.

@ErikBurkhardt

Wait, so you’re telling me teams w (already) paid QBs can also pay: Highest paid WR, 2 highly paid DEs, one of highest paid OTs, highly paid TE, well paid RBs… and then also still REUP QB as one of the highest paid?! It’s a CHOICE. A choice to TRY to win. Or not. #Commitment

https://twitter.com/ErikBurkhardt/status/1504622221754523650


These people and apparently Kyler himself have a hugely inflated idea of his worth.

He does not have Watson's talent and therefore won't be pulling off any "power plays".

 
Tweet below was from last night after the Davante Adams trade and kind of blew under the radar but it's Kylers(and Kliffs) agent accusing the team of not being committed.When you consider the power play that Watson just pulled I think people are mistaken if they believe this problem is not going to turn into a major freaking deal if they don't extend him. And considering how he's behaved and if he's looking for a Watson type contract what a dilemma for the Cardinals.

@ErikBurkhardt

Wait, so you’re telling me teams w (already) paid QBs can also pay: Highest paid WR, 2 highly paid DEs, one of highest paid OTs, highly paid TE, well paid RBs… and then also still REUP QB as one of the highest paid?! It’s a CHOICE. A choice to TRY to win. Or not. #Commitment

https://twitter.com/ErikBurkhardt/status/1504622221754523650
Is that about the Raiders or the Cardinals? It applies to both, or at least did. 

 
Is that about the Raiders or the Cardinals? It applies to both, or at least did. 
It's odd because again he's Kliff Kingsbury's agent as well but he's replying to a tweet that the Raiders are now focusing on extending Carr after paying Davante and Chandler Jones among other.  So he's basically talking about the Raiders in relation to Arizona and saying that Raiders are acting more committed to winning AND even taking on a ton of salary  but can still find room to extend Carr. Implication being Arizona is telling him they can't extend Kyler right now due to salary outlay to other players and it would make them less competitive.

It's a little ugly/aggressive. I can't say enough I don't think this is going to go well if they don't extend him. I'm not confident Kyler has enough professionalism to let his play out without causing more of a stink.

I would absolutely hate to be in the shoes of Arizona and Baltimore, especially after the Watson contract. I'd not feel comfortable at all guaranteeing that kind of money to those two and regardless of whether any of them are as good as Watson it's the range of what they will demand.

 
Kyler Murray has not shown significant improvement according to anyone who has watched his first three seasons.
He's not good. The book on him is don't let him run. He got exposed badly this year. He can't see anyone because everyone in front of him is way taller. So he runs around in circles. That won't work as we have seen.

 
It's odd because again he's Kliff Kingsbury's agent as well but he's replying to a tweet that the Raiders are now focusing on extending Carr after paying Davante and Chandler Jones among other.  So he's basically talking about the Raiders in relation to Arizona and saying that Raiders are acting more committed to winning AND even taking on a ton of salary  but can still find room to extend Carr. Implication being Arizona is telling him they can't extend Kyler right now due to salary outlay to other players and it would make them less competitive.

It's a little ugly/aggressive. I can't say enough I don't think this is going to go well if they don't extend him. I'm not confident Kyler has enough professionalism to let his play out without causing more of a stink.

I would absolutely hate to be in the shoes of Arizona and Baltimore, especially after the Watson contract. I'd not feel comfortable at all guaranteeing that kind of money to those two and regardless of whether any of them are as good as Watson it's the range of what they will demand.
Its just weird because Arizona has absolutely done a ton to add around Murray. I mean, just in the prior 2 off seasons, they brought in HOF level guys in Hopkins and Watt. 

I'd be a little more confident in Baltimore's shoes, as they've been more committed to using Jackson to his peak. I feel like Arizona sometimes just wings it with Murray and hopes it works out. Maybe that is just Harbaugh>Kingsbury though.

He's not good. The book on him is don't let him run. He got exposed badly this year. He can't see anyone because everyone in front of him is way taller. So he runs around in circles. That won't work as we have seen.
I think that is an oversimplification. Cardinals were 7-0 with wins over LAR, SF, and Ten, before Murray hurt his ankle and Hopkins went down. Murray was the NFL MVP at that point, and mostly due to his passing.

 
He's not good. The book on him is don't let him run. He got exposed badly this year. He can't see anyone because everyone in front of him is way taller. So he runs around in circles. That won't work as we have seen.
I’m critical of him, but this is just a terrible take all around.  His biggest problem is he fades at the end of the year……a la the post  40 year old Drew Brees. 

 
I’m critical of him, but this is just a terrible take all around.  His biggest problem is he fades at the end of the year……a la the post  40 year old Drew Brees. 


He fades (i prefer the term folds) when it falls on his arm. Or just when it falls on him at all.

 
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ersimplification. Cardinals were 7-0 with wins over LAR, SF, and Ten, before Murray hurt his ankle and Hopkins went down. Murray was the NFL MVP at that point, and mostly due to his passing.


A tiny QB getting hurt is a question of when.

Did you just award someone an MVP based on 7 games?

 
A tiny QB getting hurt is a question of when.

Did you just award someone an MVP based on 7 games?
Russell Wilson and Drew Brees were the two tiniest QBs in the league for years, also 2 of the most durable. Hell, Murray himself played 16 games each of his 1st 2 seasons. Murray has played 47 of a possible 50 games in his career, that's durable in my book. 

I didn't award an MVP at all. I said until Murray and Hopkins got injured (in the same game) Murray was the frontrunner for NFL MVP. He had the highest passer rating in the NFL, and was leading a 7-0 team, that included wins over 3 of the NFL's best. 

The idea that Murray is a running QB, who can't pass, is ludicrous, as is the idea he hasn't shown improvement as a player. He's gotten better every year. 

 
Russell Wilson and Drew Brees were the two tiniest QBs in the league for years, also 2 of the most durable. Hell, Murray himself played 16 games each of his 1st 2 seasons. Murray has played 47 of a possible 50 games in his career, that's durable in my book. 

I didn't award an MVP at all. I said until Murray and Hopkins got injured (in the same game) Murray was the frontrunner for NFL MVP. He had the highest passer rating in the NFL, and was leading a 7-0 team, that included wins over 3 of the NFL's best. 

The idea that Murray is a running QB, who can't pass, is ludicrous, as is the idea he hasn't shown improvement as a player. He's gotten better every year. 


Good luck digging in on mini-me.

Disagree with most everything in this post.

It should** (hint hint) tell you something when you have to resort to 7 games for your argument.  But we all know how this goes.

 
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