I guess I could try and talk around it, nay. Simply doesn't have the smarts to handle the pro game. And......too small. And....the way he runs won't work for very long before......CRUNCH!
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QB Kyler Murray, ARZ (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bracie Smathers
- Start date
What are you basing this off of?
Also, from the tape I've watched, he's a smart runner who avoids contact. Maybe I'm missing something, but that is a way to protect your longevity.
Since you asked.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj8jG0aYdsU
And the few times I've seen him talk, very unimpressive.
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I completely disagree with judging his intelligence and ability to understand NFL playbooks off of an awkward interview about choosing which sport to play. There is no proof that social awkwardness is an indicator of intelligence level. In fact, many of the smartest people I know are socially awkward. This very much seems to be judging a book by the cover.
Now add this...
Murray also sat for interviews with a reported 10 NFL teams, and it was during at least a few of those sessions that he came up, well, very short. That’s at least according to Casserly, who claimed the feedback he got from teams amounted to “the worst report I’ve ever heard on a top-ranked quarterback from the interview part of it.”
“These were the worst comments I ever got on a top-rated quarterback, and I’ve been doing this a long time,” said the 70-year-old Casserly, who spent three decades in the NFL as a scout and a personnel executive with the Washington Redskins and Houston Texans. “Leadership — not good. Study habits — not good. The board work — below not good.”
I came up with my opinion before hearing anything about that above. I've seen a lot of football and see this guy as lacking in what makes up an NFL QB.
I can out run Tom Brady.
Who are those great Big12 QB?
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Casserly has received incredible backlash from his peers in the industry, as well as information contrary to his claims. Not to mention he made these comments without ever meeting Kyler. A small sampling of refuting Casserly's claims can be found here:
https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/Kyler-Murray-NFL-Draft-2019-Combine-Charlie-Casserly--129873522/
If you made your judgment prior to Casserly's comments, you only had his interviews as your basis for assessing intelligence, which I stand by my previous comments in that I think is not appropriate basis for your claims. Besides lack of intelligence, as you claim, what else is Kyler lacking that has been proven to be correlated with success as a NFL QB?
I'm not sure why you made these statements? This has nothing to do with Kyler's ability to play QB in the NFL. But since you asked, see below. This includes two very recent, very promising players in Baker Mayfield and Patrick Mahomes
KANSAS
John Hadl (1962-77)
KANSAS STATE
Steve Grogan (1975-90)
Lynn Dickey (1971-85)
OKLAHOMA
Troy Aikman (1989-00)
Baker Mayfield (2018-Present)
TCU
Sammy Baugh (1937-52)
TEXAS
Bobby Layne (1948-62)
TEXAS TECH
Patrick Mahomes (2017-Present)
Hadl, Grogan, Dickey, Aikman, Baugh, Layne, never played in the Big12.
Mayfield is still a...?
So there has been one stud Big12QB...............ONE!
Let's do this, let's talk about this after around week 9 of the 2019 season, watch what happens, YES.....he will be a rookie so we can't expect too much but we will be hearing a lot of.....what is wrong with this kid.......watch and see.
He is not a leader of grown men and that is very obvious. First thing he should have done.....hey dad butt out,. ok?
I made my living knowing body language (sales) this guy is not a leader.
This is not good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDcFPsuQInY
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Fair point, most those QBs played for Big-12 teams before the Big-12 existed. But I would caution you from looking at the Big-12 in a vacuum in terms "great" QBs to come from the division. If you look at the other conferences over the same time horizon, the other conferences haven't fared much better, if at all (1-3). But that is beside the point, as it has nothing to do with Kyler's ability.
We can certainly wait until week 9 to discuss further. If we do, I would ask that you stop repeating your bold claims about his lacking abilities until then. I will do the same.
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The Big12 doesn't play defense this is a known fact.
And that fact has everything to do with Murray.
What's with this.....stop repeating.....? If I want to discuss it I will, ok?
2018 NCAA Defenses
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2018-team-defense.html
When it comes to reading NFL defenses and putting the ball in tight windows, we'll see the big mistake.
My last five QB predictions
Russell Wilson will take right off, he simply has "it'.
Cousins will end up the starter RGIII will fade.
Vince Young is not an NFL QB.
Johnny Manzell.....are you kidding me?
Dak Prescott will make it work just don't expect the next Aikman/Staubach. The next Dandy Don, sure.
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Patrick Mahomes and Baker Mayfield came from the same conference. They seem to be doing just fine. I don't think it's appropriate to assume QBs coming from Big-12 can't be great NFL QBs.
1. In the same way saying "The sky is red" three times isn't a discussion, saying Kyler Murray will be a bust is not discussing. Saying "I believe Kyler Murray will be a flop because of X and Y. Information 1 and Information 2 back up statement X and Y" is contributing to a discussion. Providing reasoning and information to back up your position, while asking questions, is discussing.
2. You were the one who asked to defer discussions (see below). I am fine acquiescing to this request if you also abide by deferring the discussion. Asking me to defer discussions while you continue to "discuss" is hypocritical.
In regards to your comments below:
First, unless you can provide timestamps of posts where you made these claims, it is impossible to verify you made these calls prior to them being drafted. It is easy to make calls after seeing how players have turned out or claim you made these calls earlier. I do not find these to be convincing if you are trying to prove your skills of a prospect analyst. I also did not ask for credentials, nor did anyone else, so it seems unwarranted to provide them at this time.
Secondly, these claims have nothing at all to do with Kyler Murray and his status as a prospect. These come across to me as claims to fame and have no bearing on arguments made for/against Murray.
It is clear you have your opinion formed about Murray. That's perfectly fine. I don't mind debating or discussing the topic, but I won't expect to change your mind. You will unlikely change mine. If you want to discuss Murray, however, I think the community at large would appreciate reasoning, statistics, etc. for any bold claims you make. This contributes to analyzing a prospect vs. saying how you feel about them.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Guess I'll be in the minority here, but I think Murray is arguably the best QB prospect of the last several years. Mayfield probably is a little better passer, and that may be preferable for some offenses/coaches, but Murray is a great passer, with almost unrivaled mobility, that every defense will have trouble accounting for.
Forgive some hyperbole/strong optimism, but I think Murray has the potential to be a much better QB than Russell Wilson, or at least what Seattle asks of him. There is a Steve Young level ceiling here. Murray is the player people wanted Michael Vick to be that he never really was other than maybe a half season with the Eagles.
So he's small, so what? The NFL is changing, actually it already changed, teams and coaches are just slowly catching up. You can't grab small speed WR's, you can't blast QB's who dare to leave the pocket. Aggressive QB's are usually rewarded, either with big plays, or drawing penalties attempting them, and Murray is plenty aggressive. I'm not concerned about Murray's size, so he'll have a few throws that will be more difficult for him than they would be for say, Ben Roethlisberger, due to his height, again, so what? He brings things to the table that nobody else in the NFL brings.
Murray is very accurate, more so than any other QB in this draft, and has exceptional pocket presence. He'd be a top QB prospect even he ran a 4.8. He's not looking to run if the 1st read isn't there, and often takes off, to find a better passing platform, something we saw Mahomes do plenty of times in 2018. He runs when he sees a lane, and is able to outrun guys who have angles on him, like a punt returner. I'm not worried about size hindering his durability either, he's not skinny, he's got a higher BMI than many starting QB's. If Murray were to be a RB, he'd likely be the top prospect at that position too.
I'm extremely excited to see Murray in the pros, whether he ends up with Kingsbury or not. Part of me wants to see him end up in Oakland, with Gruden and Antonio Brown, and watch the track meets that he and Mahomes will produce twice a year.
From a fantasy perspective, I'd have no problem taking him in round 1 of dynasty drafts, maybe even in the top half of the round. He's a rare QB who could be a weekly difference maker.
Forgive some hyperbole/strong optimism, but I think Murray has the potential to be a much better QB than Russell Wilson, or at least what Seattle asks of him. There is a Steve Young level ceiling here. Murray is the player people wanted Michael Vick to be that he never really was other than maybe a half season with the Eagles.
So he's small, so what? The NFL is changing, actually it already changed, teams and coaches are just slowly catching up. You can't grab small speed WR's, you can't blast QB's who dare to leave the pocket. Aggressive QB's are usually rewarded, either with big plays, or drawing penalties attempting them, and Murray is plenty aggressive. I'm not concerned about Murray's size, so he'll have a few throws that will be more difficult for him than they would be for say, Ben Roethlisberger, due to his height, again, so what? He brings things to the table that nobody else in the NFL brings.
Murray is very accurate, more so than any other QB in this draft, and has exceptional pocket presence. He'd be a top QB prospect even he ran a 4.8. He's not looking to run if the 1st read isn't there, and often takes off, to find a better passing platform, something we saw Mahomes do plenty of times in 2018. He runs when he sees a lane, and is able to outrun guys who have angles on him, like a punt returner. I'm not worried about size hindering his durability either, he's not skinny, he's got a higher BMI than many starting QB's. If Murray were to be a RB, he'd likely be the top prospect at that position too.
I'm extremely excited to see Murray in the pros, whether he ends up with Kingsbury or not. Part of me wants to see him end up in Oakland, with Gruden and Antonio Brown, and watch the track meets that he and Mahomes will produce twice a year.
From a fantasy perspective, I'd have no problem taking him in round 1 of dynasty drafts, maybe even in the top half of the round. He's a rare QB who could be a weekly difference maker.
Honestly, I think he's a risk, but there is enough there for me to warrant chasing the upside. His one-year stats are pretty great, so I'll try to focus on a few non-stats related items and outside of the typical "great arm, great athlete".
What I like:
- Clutch. He was in a lot of shootouts last year, but he faced them with aplomb and came out on top for the majority of them.
- From my eyes, he seems to be a (mostly) smart runner. Avoids contact where he can, which will be crucial given his frame.
- Ability to identify and make touch passes.
What concerns me:
- one year starter (well documented). NFL defenses are a different animal, as are DCs. I don't have a good indication of how he will handle adversity if/when he struggles.
- Is he a leader? We've seen Lincoln Riley defend his leadership, but I haven't seen specific leadership examples, just generic statements. With his back and forth between football and baseball, can he convince his teammates he is 100% dedicated and be a leader for his team?
- His running. While I think he was a mostly smart runner, his superior athleticism got him out of trouble more than a few times. Facing more athletic defenders in the NFL, he will likely run into some instances where he leans on his ability and it fails to get him out of a dicey situation. This can lead to injuries, or mental barriers (Robert Griffin, I think, is an example of someone who was affected mentally and physically).
Overall, I think there are a lot of unknown quantities here. There is a lot to like, but there is a lot of reasons for caution. I'm willing to take a gamble, personally, because of those particular qualities I detailed that I think are hard to find combined with his stats and athleticism. Of course, landing spot and rookie pick used to select him will be the crux of the question. In my dynasty superflex, I'm taking him 1.01 right now. In my more typical dynasty leagues, I'll be looking early-mid 2nd.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
thank you. considering at a very high 2nd. Especially of Rosen ends up a backup for 2019
Interseptopus
Footballguy
this is great as well. thank you.
Can you imagine Oakland with Murray, AB, and Marquis Brown? Good luck
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Generally speaking QBs start coming off the board at 2.05 the earliest in dynasty drafts. There are exceptions here and there though - both Luck and RGIII went top 5 in most drafts the year they came out. Last year Mayfield went at 1.11 in one of my leagues but mid-second in the rest.Dr. Dan said:
Where "should" Murray go - that's a tough question of course but given his running abilities I don't think a late first is a stretch. I think the sweet spot will be 1.11-2.04 that we see him go off the board in most leagues.
You will see a lot of mock drafts out there a lot of talk about who should go where and who has what, that is all I'm doing. Everybody has an opinion about all these players I'm just giving mine on Murray and it is backed by a TON of experience as opposed to some somebody lacking that experience.
There are no stats vs Big12 defenses that can be brought into this.
Just think I was thinking the kid doesn't come across as a take charge leader of men, then here comes Casserly's take which backs my opinion up. Both of us with a lot of football experience.
Too small, too much made about his running, and comes across as anything but a leader. Don't like his dad being involved, that isn't good.
But, this will be my last say until around week 9 of the season, no need to keep going on about it.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Casserly is an idiot, who hasn't had credibility in some time. His word is on par with Stephen A.Smith's, only he used to be in the NFL, so sometimes people actually take him seriously.
First off I was thinking Murray was lacking long before the Casserley take. All he did was back me up. And he is a long time NFL guy.
Wiki
In 1999, Sports Illustrated, Pro Football Weekly, The Sporting News and USA Today named Casserly their NFL Executive of the Year at mid-season. On draft day in 1999, Casserly acquired all of the New Orleans Saints 1999 selections, plus their first and third-round picks in 2000 by swapping the Redskins' fifth selection in the first round for the Saints' 12th choice. He still managed to obtain the player that Washington wanted, selecting future Pro Bowl cornerback Champ Bailey.
The guy has seen a ton of football and football players, I listen to guys with that experience. Why would he give a damn about Murray? He simply came across a kid who was off the charts and he felt he needed to talk about it. Which is no different than what everybody was saying after that Dan Patrick interview.
His dad hanging with him at this stage of things, Patrick having to....so tell us dad.......are you kidding me?
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
If you read the articles...
Casserly's QB drafting history includes: 1.3 Heath Shuler, 1.1 David Carr. A negative endorsement from Casserly carries about as mcuh weight as Marvin Lewis' negative endorsement.
Also, this, which is perhaps the most important caveat:
Would you like Gil Brandt's credentials? He absolutely slams Casserly and his take on Kyler, holding a diametrically opposing view. Not only that, Gil Brandt knows the Murray family, so he has much more insight as compared to Casserly, who has never met Kyler. This, in addition to conflict of interest as Dr. Dan pointed out, means Casserly's analysis doesn't (or shouldn't) hold much weight.
On track record alone, suffice to say I trust Gil Brandt as a long-time NFL guy with better history of success over Casserly.
Bottom line is I couldn't care less about any college QB/future NFLer, and never have. I look at that rookie season, or that first season as a starter. The few times I;ve seen Murphy talk, very unimpressive. THEN......to have Casserly see it the same way, what are the odds?
Then...after that Dan Patrick interview a lot of people.....what's wrong with this kid?
Now add all that up and there is something just not right here.
The only reason I paid any attention to Casserly is he was saying what I was thinking.
Why ignore what everyone was saying after that Patrick interview? So all of us are just wrong, really?
Dan Patrick
Of all the interviews that we did, I got more attention from an interview where somebody didn't say anything than all the other interviews that we had at the Super Bowl. They're like, 'What was up with Kyler Murray?' I'm like, 'I don't know.'
He got bad advice, I think. Because if I have a product and let's say he's a two sports star, let's say he's a star quarterback in the NFL, I would think twice about letting him be a spokesperson because you should have had a game plan going into that. You know what we're gonna ask you about. You know those questions are coming.
Have some fun, show some personality, and you're selling Gatorade.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So there I am thinking....what's with this kid? There is Casserly's take, there is Patrick "what was up with Murray".
I'm telling you something is wrong here.
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
I'm having trouble following you here... If the first quote is true, then the second quote is meaningless. But you have strong feelings about Murray, so I am struggling with figuring out what you're talking about in the first part...
ETA: What are the first few times you saw Murray talk?
And what do you mean, "Something is wrong?" Do you think Murray has a learning disability?
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The Cards have a young QB and they will be making a HUGE mistake letting him go for a kid who is going to bust. Getting it now?
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
Maybe. But if that's what you meant, then okay.
I edited my previous post but you didn't get it, it seems...
When did you first hear Murray talk? What context? When was it?
What do you mean when you say "something is wrong?" Are you implying something is wrong with Kyler medically? Do you think he has a learning disability?
Not sure the very first time, never thought I;d need to remember. Did see this ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5lcj9P6HzM
Notice how he looks away , can't really hit a question with a real answer. Just looked weak. Rambling on about baseball for no real reason. Look at Tebow in comparison.
His Heisman speech was weak.
I just expect more out of a kid in his position. And if.....he can't read NFL defenses....can't handle the media...came into play, I wouldn't be surprised at all.
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
Interesting. I had that same video linked up as evidence of a fairly laid back, normal interview.
Looking at Dan Patrick’s response to Murray’s interview, it’s clear Dan Patrick is more offended that his “valuable real estate” was being “wasted” rather than had true questions about something being “wrong” with Murray. He is disappointed Murray didn't give in to his several baiting questions. Of course Dan Patrick thinks he got bad advice... because the good advice (for Dan) would have been to announce his decision on the Dan Patrick show.
Watching the interview myself, I don’t see “something is wrong” with Murray at all. It was clear from the start that Murray did not feel comfortable hinting in any direction which sport he was choosing. It's very possible, at the point of this interview, had he hinted at football that could have killed any chance he had with the As meeting his price demand. If you had millions on the line, wouldn't you opt for awkward silence?
Patrick was asking some fairly stupid questions. I don’t blame Murray for being awkward. Patrick wouldn’t let the “pick a sport” questions go. Get over it Dan. That’s why it was awkward. He wouldn’t let these questions go, but would rather rephrase them to get any kind of a hint from Murray. What is Murray supposed to do, make his decision on the Dan Patrick show? Dan would have loved that. But he didn’t bite, so the interview was a bad one. Well, the guy asking the questions was asking the same question over and over for 13 minutes. That's why it was bad. What Dan Patrick should have done was thrown all of those questions in the trash and instead ask questions similar to what Tim Tebow asked- to get a normal interview out of him.
Interesting how two people can watch the same thing and come to two different conclusions. I'm not so sure I would put any stock into the Dan Patrick interview... as it was clear Patrick wasn't taking his foot off the gas on a topic Murray had no desire to discuss. I actually have to wonder if this is a classic case of one side saying "I'll come on the show but no questions about football vs baseball." and then the host calls an audible last second. Murray is a sitting duck... no matter what he does he hurts his stock.
So put no stock in Patrick or Casserley takes and forget my 5 decades of watching football, how about this one....
NORMAN, Okla. - OU quarterback and Heisman Trophy winner Kyler Murray apologized early Sunday morning for old tweets that surfaced using a homophobic term. Some people in Norman told News 4 they're happy to accept his apology and move forward.
After Murray won the Heisman Trophy on Saturday, someone went back through his tweets and discovered several that used a derogatory homophobic term. The tweets are from 2011 and 2012, when Murray was 14 and 15-years-old.
"It is important to be aware that that is something that he said, and he has to own it because he posted it on the internet," said OU student Jordan Friedemann.
The tweets were deleted Saturday night. Early Sunday morning, Murray took to Twitter to apologize, saying, "I apologize for the tweets that have come to light tonight from when I was 14 and 15. I used a poor choice of word that doesn’t reflect who I am or what I believe. I did not intend to single out any individual or group."
Forget the lame..."I did not intend......." sure he did. And it does reflect on who he is.
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Zeno.....what do you know? (Charley Johnson the Cards QB when I got into this stuff)
Casserly....forget him.
Patrick....pay no attention
Gay slurs....just a kid
Ok man, just forget it, the kid is going to be great. We're all wrong, and all kids use gay slurs.
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
No, I dont care about those opinions in the context they came. I certainly dont care about tweets from a teenager.
When you plan on putting your NFL team in the hands of a kid you plan on paying millions to, I think it matters a hell of a lot. And, what was he saying when not on tweeter?
Thing is I just had a feeling about the kid, I just found that tweeter thing out today, didn't know any of that. What else is out there?
What kind of student was he?
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I can't believe this is a serious question. He probably did forget about it, it was someone who went through and looked back 7 years to find it. Its really unreasonable to assume a 21 year old person is more self aware than they were at 14?
This thread is reminding me of an old ESPN column about the 2009 draft where the writer posited that if all the 1st round QB's from that draft and the 2008 draft went to a club, who would be the driver? Whomever that was, would be the best pro QB, because people would look to them. Funnily enough, they thought the answer to that was Mark Sanchez, not Ryan, Flacco, or Stafford. That seems relevant here. Why you ask? Because its an example of someone grading players on meaningless nonsense instead of on field play.
None of my four kids would ever use a gay slur, and neither would I at any age. What else was he saying? I have gay friends, it's nothing at all, a total zero.
Why do all that silly stuff at the combine? Who is the greatest QB ever, yep, Tom Brady, all of us reading this would smoke him in a 40, so why worry about a 40 for a QB? I;m with you on just go with on the field play, but, they don't.
I was under the assumption all that character stuff was a big deal especially a first round pick. You have a QB who has called people a..... that's not good.
This isn't good
When Murray was 15 years old, he tweeted at his friends (via his since-verified Twitter account) using an anti-gay slur to defame them. Four offensive tweets remained active on his account late Saturday night but were eventually deleted by Sunday morning — when Murray apologized for his insensitive language in a tweet.
I seriously doubt those were the only four times he ever went that route.
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
We started this conversation by you explaining why you felt Murray was going to be a bust. You mentioned "something was wrong" with him due to his interviews. I watched the same interview and came to a different conclusion, which is fine, we can disagree.
You also referenced two guys who had clear ulterior motives to rate Murray as a bad interview. One who never met him, and one who wouldn't stop asking him a question he clearly wasn't answering. I put more stock into people who actually know Murray (his coaches) than someone who met him once. Again, fine for us to disagree.
Then you go completely off the rails and start talking about his tweets from when he was 14 or 15 years old. Who cares? What someone says on twitter doesn't affect their athletic abilities
Interseptopus
Footballguy
As a guy who is 50/50 here are my thoughts:
Cons:
-1 year starter. He was behind Mayfield, so you can't fault him too much for that, but it does mean that his body of work is less than optimal
-Height. Speaking of less than optional... 5'10 at the combine, but then rumors that it was fudged, and then he declines a measurement at his proday... why? This is something I have a hard time getting over. Not that he can't see over his linemen... that is an issue for sure, but just that the list of success at the QB position for shorter QBs isn't very long. Those that do make that list are quite exceptional, in general. That leads me to conclude he is either a terrible bust or huge success... which seems about right considering the opinions in here about him.
-His commitment/baseball option. This can absolutely be a positive and a reflection of his athleticism. It just makes you wonder if he's not finding early success if he jumps to MLB.
-His father. Is this going to turn into a Lavar Ball situation?
-System drafted into- Can't fit a square peg into a round hole in this situation. He needs the right scenario/scheme
Pros:
-Seems like the complete package, aside from the height. He has the potential to have impact in the NFL day 1.
-Arm- he can throw. Not many people seem to appreciate this
-Legs- well documented
My Conclusion:
This is based off of 1QB leagues only. In these leagues it's not a great investment, in most cases, to draft a QB until mid to late round 2 (or even round 3). When you have a chance to grab superior talent, then I think you have to pounce on it. I think Murray could be just that. We saw Lamar Jackson throw together some pretty impressive games in the last 1/3 of the season. He can't throw half as good as Murray. He is the kind of QB who could instantly have QB1 appeal no matter where he goes because he has viable weapons that can be effective without needing the game to slow down through the typical rookie learning curve. There was such excitement over Jackson last year, but not so much Murray it seems.
I put no stock in these interviews or reports of interviews. It's fine for others to, but I just don't give it any weight- positive or negative. It's a nothing burger for me
There is some definite bust potential, but nothing greater than what Mayfield faced last year. Anytime you have a QB 1.1 I think there is a good discussion of how a player could easily bust. For Murray it's worse because of the cons listed above, IMO.
It sure sounds like I'm all in, but this just goes to show how much I can't get over some of the negatives. I don't want to blow a pick on a bust of a QB. At the same time, I am not sure there are many safer players to take where Murray's draft window is.
He's definitely an interesting prospect in the fantasy community, and I can see why someone may be excited to take him round 1, especially if you draft mid to late round 1- he won't be there when your 2nd rounder comes around. I won't fault anyone for taking their guy early. I've gambled and lost- and had to trade like a madman to fix those mistakes. Lesson learned is to take who you want, when you want them, rather than trying to play games. Chances are someone might like the guy as much as you, and they're picking right after you.
Cons:
-1 year starter. He was behind Mayfield, so you can't fault him too much for that, but it does mean that his body of work is less than optimal
-Height. Speaking of less than optional... 5'10 at the combine, but then rumors that it was fudged, and then he declines a measurement at his proday... why? This is something I have a hard time getting over. Not that he can't see over his linemen... that is an issue for sure, but just that the list of success at the QB position for shorter QBs isn't very long. Those that do make that list are quite exceptional, in general. That leads me to conclude he is either a terrible bust or huge success... which seems about right considering the opinions in here about him.
-His commitment/baseball option. This can absolutely be a positive and a reflection of his athleticism. It just makes you wonder if he's not finding early success if he jumps to MLB.
-His father. Is this going to turn into a Lavar Ball situation?
-System drafted into- Can't fit a square peg into a round hole in this situation. He needs the right scenario/scheme
Pros:
-Seems like the complete package, aside from the height. He has the potential to have impact in the NFL day 1.
-Arm- he can throw. Not many people seem to appreciate this
-Legs- well documented
My Conclusion:
This is based off of 1QB leagues only. In these leagues it's not a great investment, in most cases, to draft a QB until mid to late round 2 (or even round 3). When you have a chance to grab superior talent, then I think you have to pounce on it. I think Murray could be just that. We saw Lamar Jackson throw together some pretty impressive games in the last 1/3 of the season. He can't throw half as good as Murray. He is the kind of QB who could instantly have QB1 appeal no matter where he goes because he has viable weapons that can be effective without needing the game to slow down through the typical rookie learning curve. There was such excitement over Jackson last year, but not so much Murray it seems.
I put no stock in these interviews or reports of interviews. It's fine for others to, but I just don't give it any weight- positive or negative. It's a nothing burger for me
There is some definite bust potential, but nothing greater than what Mayfield faced last year. Anytime you have a QB 1.1 I think there is a good discussion of how a player could easily bust. For Murray it's worse because of the cons listed above, IMO.
It sure sounds like I'm all in, but this just goes to show how much I can't get over some of the negatives. I don't want to blow a pick on a bust of a QB. At the same time, I am not sure there are many safer players to take where Murray's draft window is.
He's definitely an interesting prospect in the fantasy community, and I can see why someone may be excited to take him round 1, especially if you draft mid to late round 1- he won't be there when your 2nd rounder comes around. I won't fault anyone for taking their guy early. I've gambled and lost- and had to trade like a madman to fix those mistakes. Lesson learned is to take who you want, when you want them, rather than trying to play games. Chances are someone might like the guy as much as you, and they're picking right after you.
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You don't find it strange how I was talking about not being impressed with the kid BEFORE the Chasserley and Patrick situations? What are the odds of me...."doesn't come off well"...then we read what we did saying pretty much the same thing?
Now today I find out he was calling people a queer on tweeter. What if he'd said something racist or talked about some violence towards others, hell yes it matters what people say especially a guy who will be the number one pick in an NFL draft. Noway it's..."just ignore all that, all that matters is can he play football"....you can't be serious.
What coach is going to say anything negative about one of their players?
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Ray Barboni
Footballguy
I think it depends on league rules and team breakdown - which we don’t need to get into here, but ...Dr. Dan said:
I’m almost certain I’ll be taking him at the 1.11
I’d be doing this with already having Russ and Wents on my roster.
There’s just not a lot at that draft slot that would stop me from taking the lotto ticket that Murray could be.
Hock? Sure I play in a TE premium league ... but I’ve got Kelce locked up.
I don’t want to miss out on the next Mahommes - so I’ll be taking him then
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I dont know you at all. And after watching the Patrick interview I'm more turned off at how Patrick acted than Murray. I'd expect more from a guy like Dan Patrick. Chasserly I've already addressed- it was a smear job. No one likes an SJ.
You put a lot of weight into what two people have said about him, yet you've been offered at least 3 positive opinions of him from 3 different people, but you toss those away like they're nothing.
And a racist can throw the ball just as far as a non racist. 30 fantasy points from a racist is the same in my league as 30 points from a non racist. If NFL teams think differently about his tweets, that's their business.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Harry, Brown, Butler, Metcalf, Jacobs, Boykin, Samuel, Montgomery, Sanders, Henderson, Harmon, Campbell, JJAW...
There is going to be a really good player there even without TEs.
Plus, in TE premium you can start more than 1 TE.
The real lottery ticker is one of the above hitting IMO.
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First off a lot of people chimed in on how poorly Murray came off on the Patrick show, so more than just two. Colin Cowherd for one.
I'm obviously talking real life here not fantasy, hell, a child abuser can run a football just as good as a non child abuser, right?
Interseptopus
Footballguy
okay, well I just wanted some specifics as to why you were so confident that he will bust. I'm more concerned about my rookie draft right now. If he tweeted 2 weeks ago, sure maybe I'm interested in that. 5 years ago... I'll pass.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Thanks for the reply. I agree with kittenmittens that you might have really solid players to choose from since you do have some good depth at qb. But again, if hes your guy I cant blame you
Five years ago I held up a bank, and killed the guard, no problems, right? I'm a changed man now, I found religion.
When Murray is proven to be that bust, we;ll talk again.
Add this...
On Monday, the ever-simmering rivalry between the Texas Longhorns and Oklahoma Sooners heated up a bit more when Oklahoma quarterback Kyler Murray refused to comment on whether he respects the game of his counterpart, Sam Ehlinger.
“I have no comment on that,” Murray said, laughing.
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