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QB Kyler Murray, ARZ (1 Viewer)

After taking his NFL skill set into account, Murray is a second- or third-round type of talent who needs a year or two of seasoning before he can be an effective pro quarterback. With a lot of seasoning and improvement in key areas, Murray has the ability to become a competent quarterback in the NFL.

While Murray's talent may suggest he should go on Day 2 of the draft, the NFL's thirst for quarterbacks could easily move Murray into Round 1 consideration, as a playoff contender with an older quarterback (cough, cough -- the Saints) could definitely take a chance on the reigning Heisman Trophy winner at the end of the first round.

Twitter: @JohnOwning

Just another take on this.

I pity Josh Rosen, this just has a bad feel/look to it. I can't recall seeing this before, I probably have but...???

 
There really is a wide range of opinions on the guy.  That guy is sold.

A buddy of mine asked me if I ever saw Murray play in HS,  I....nope!

There is no doubt he was absolutely incredible at that level as we can see,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdmw_fNpj48

But.....I didn't know he quit Texas A&M for Oklahoma,  not unlike signing with a baseball team only to bail on them.  Don't like this kind of thing, as I said things begin to add up.

 
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There really is a wide range of opinions on the guy.  That guy is sold.

A buddy of mine asked me if I ever saw Murray play in HS,  I....nope!

There is no doubt he was absolutely incredible at that level as we can see,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdmw_fNpj48

But.....I didn't know he quit Texas A&M for Oklahoma,  not unlike signing with a baseball team only to bail on them.  Don't like this kind of thing, as I said things begin to add up.
Baker Mayfield quit Texas tech for Oklahoma... seemed to work out well for him. you keep grasping at straws. just stop. 

 
Baker Mayfield quit Texas tech for Oklahoma... seemed to work out well for him. you keep grasping at straws. just stop. 
Not really having to grasp, just paying attention.

Small

Relies too much on his running ability.

Bad in interviews.

Gay slurs on tweeter as a kid.

Quit Texas A&M

Takes dad along.

Bailed on baseball after signing.

What next, how about not a man of his word?

Wiki

Despite Murray's reported intention to continue his football career,[31] the Oakland Athletics selected Murray with the ninth overall selection of the 2018 MLB draft.[32] He signed a contract with the Athletics which includes a $4.66 million signing bonus.[33] Prior to his junior year with the football team, Murray said that he would report to spring training in 2019 to begin his professional baseball career.[33] However, following his Heisman Trophy-winning 2018 season, he would forgo his senior year and enter the NFL Draft. The A's retain his rights, should he return to baseball.[34]

 
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I get the Baker comp because of the school, stats and somewhat similar height but in terms of what I’ve seen personality wise, they seem worlds apart. I love the way Baker handles himself- Murray not so much.

 
Not really having to grasp, just paying attention.

Small

Relies too much on his running ability.

Bad in interviews.

Gay slurs on tweeter as a kid.

Quit Texas A&m

Bailed on baseball after signing.

What next?
Size=overrated

too reliant on running=not even close to true. easily the best passer in this draft class, and 2nd best passer behind Mayfield in the last 2 classes

bad interviews=meaningless, and eye of the beholder things

tweets=dumb teenager, nothing to see there

quits Texas A&M=tons of QB's switch schools. Mayfield did too, as did Flacco(Super Bowl ring), Cam Newton(NFL MVP), Nick Foles(Super Bowl MVP), and Russell Wilson(Super Bowl ring)

bailed on baseball=so did John Elway

What next=#1 pick and heavy favorite for 2019 rookie of the year

 
Size=overrated

too reliant on running=not even close to true. easily the best passer in this draft class, and 2nd best passer behind Mayfield in the last 2 classes

bad interviews=meaningless, and eye of the beholder things

tweets=dumb teenager, nothing to see there

quits Texas A&M=tons of QB's switch schools. Mayfield did too, as did Flacco(Super Bowl ring), Cam Newton(NFL MVP), Nick Foles(Super Bowl MVP), and Russell Wilson(Super Bowl ring)

bailed on baseball=so did John Elway

What next=#1 pick and heavy favorite for 2019 rookie of the year
size...EVERYONE wanted to know his height...EVERYONE, yep....matters.

he had 140 rushing attempts in 2018, that's more than 10 a game, which way too many.

bad interviews....how a guy handles himself in public tells you a lot about their confidence.

tweets....what was he saying while not on tweeter and does tell us what it isn't above.

he quit on a school and a baseball team, and did sign a contract

What next a #1 pick and a "what in the hell were we thinking" as Josh Rosen sips a beer in a bar with a big grin on his face.

 
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size...EVERYONE wanted to know his height...EVERYONE, yep....matters.

he had 140 rushing attempts in 2018, that's more than 10 a games, which way too many.

bad interviews....how a guy handles himself in public tells you a lot about their confidence.

tweets....what was he saying while not on tweeter and does tell us what it isn't above.

he quit on a school and a baseball team, and did sign a contract

What next a #1 pick and a "what in the hell were we thinking" as Josh Rosen sips a beer in a bar with a big grin on his face.
When you are averaging over 7 yards per carry, I don't think too carries many exists. Also, again, he was the best passer in all of college football. He wasn't dependent on rushing at all, it was another extremely effective asset. 

I don't think it matters what he was saying when he was in 8th grade. 8th graders are stupid, universally. You seem to be suggesting that a person's feelings, beliefs and opinions when they are 14, are forever. I know my personality was a lot different at 21 than it was at 14. 

John Elway signed a contract and then quit on a baseball team. He also had his dad involved with a lot of his dealings. He also refused to play for an NFL team(something Murray hasn't) and he is widely considered one of the best players in history.

 
When you are averaging over 7 yards per carry, I don't think too carries many exists. Also, again, he was the best passer in all of college football. He wasn't dependent on rushing at all, it was another extremely effective asset. 

I don't think it matters what he was saying when he was in 8th grade. 8th graders are stupid, universally. You seem to be suggesting that a person's feelings, beliefs and opinions when they are 14, are forever. I know my personality was a lot different at 21 than it was at 14. 

John Elway signed a contract and then quit on a baseball team. He also had his dad involved with a lot of his dealings. He also refused to play for an NFL team(something Murray hasn't) and he is widely considered one of the best players in history.
Well I disagree, 10 rushes a game  a lot for a QB. And a big part of his game is having the defense.....will he run or pass? His running ability a big part of the attraction.

At 15, 25, 35 I;m not calling anyone a queer, and neither are my kids.  This, ah hell just a kid,  is weak.  I doubt Elway ever called anyone a queer.

Bottom line is that combination of things...

Short/runs too much/gay slurs/bad interviews/quit on his school/signed a contract then failed to honor it/daddy hanging around. 

Add

From Sports Illustrated:

“To be a legit NFL quarterback you’ve got to have leadership qualities,” says Scot McCloughan, a former NFL GM who assisted the Browns in scouting Mayfield, their 2018 No. 1 pick. “Watching Kyler do an interview, it’s like, C’mon, guy, what do you got? Give me something. I’m sure they’re trying to train him up, but . . . he’s just not a go-getter. Doesn’t mean he can’t be a good QB. Just means he’s not gonna be the guy in the locker room.”

Before that above, before Casserly, before the Dan Patrick Show, I;m thinking.....this is not a leader of men.

At 21 if my dad had butted in my business "I love you man, but butt out".  When people ask you things you look right at them and answer the question.  You take charge of things, that is not this kid at all.

This is a very real situation.

According to Matt Miller of Bleacher Report, Murray’s father is assuming the responsibilities of an agent right now, which could influence the Heisman Trophy winner into the wrong direction.

From Bleacher Report:

“He’s still going in the first [round], but he needs to get an agent and do it the right way,” one person told Miller. “This is Lavar Ball all over again,” another NFL insider said, referencing Murray’s dad managing the situation.

Murray has the potential to succeed at the next level, but he’ll need to allow an agent to guide him through this challenging process. It’s extremely rare for an athlete to have offers to play multiple sports, and that alone can complicate matters.

It’ll be important for Murray to squash all these negative vibes surrounding himself before it affects his stock for the NFL Draft.

Being it will be a long time until anyone can........see what did I tell you.....and a rookie season doesn't tell us all that much sometimes, it's best I bail on this.  I don't see a guy who can be a commander, a leader, a guy others want to rally around, I see a great athlete with a great WOW! factor, but in with grown men it will take more than that.

Gone~~~~~~

 
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Why not jump in and give your take?  Have an opinion.
Because you are clogging up the thread cherry picking any possible negative thing, be it stats, interviews, year old tweets, ANYTHING that fits your narrative, and refusing to pay attention to or consider any information to the contrary. He would like to remove your posts from his view because he doesn't value your opinion on the topic and would prefer to only see others' thoughts on Murray.

 
Because you are clogging up the thread cherry picking any possible negative thing, be it stats, interviews, year old tweets, ANYTHING that fits your narrative, and refusing to pay attention to or consider any information to the contrary. He would like to remove your posts from his view because he doesn't value your opinion on the topic and would prefer to only see others' thoughts on Murray.
My opinion is based on having seen every pro QB since 1958.  I make my living reading a persons body language and facial expressions, I sell insurance.

But......I'll bow out, I really can't add anything more.

 
Pretending to care that a teenager used the term queer is only slightly less pathetic than actually caring that a teenager used the term queer.

 
Pretending to care that a teenager used the term queer is only slightly less pathetic than actually caring that a teenager used the term queer.
Will no longer be talking Murray but.....

You don't know me at all, where I came from that sort of behavior would not work at all, so you are as wrong as wrong can get.  To giggle around hiding behind a computer screen calling people a queer  ....are you kidding me?  I'm far above that and always have been.

A...ok man, sorry.....would be cool.

 
I will add that this time last year a lot of people were down on Baker because of his personality. They said he was too cocky, selfish and too loud. Lots of people said he would never make it in the league with his attitude.

 
There really is a wide range of opinions on the guy.  That guy is sold.

A buddy of mine asked me if I ever saw Murray play in HS,  I....nope!

There is no doubt he was absolutely incredible at that level as we can see,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdmw_fNpj48

But.....I didn't know he quit Texas A&M for Oklahoma,  not unlike signing with a baseball team only to bail on them.  Don't like this kind of thing, as I said things begin to add up.
It's not 30 years ago

These kids have to fit into a system and not that a college coach tailors things to them. They're all promised (lied to) that they will be "the man" at some point but then the team signs some other high school stud at their position. Plenty of boosters are evil and the NCAA does a great job reporting them to the police, IRS, FBI, and whomever else, but it's real easy for an 18 or 19 year old to take some money and "get in bed with bad news." 

I've long ignored transfer articles and just assumed it was for good reasons and...I highly recommend doing the same. It's all unbelievable and believable at the same time and ...so surreal what these kids can go through

He's a good boy so he probably wouldn't say it but if he had a big prob with the coach, he'd have picked baseball over playing for that coach again. That should tell you enough hmmm to just discard it

 
I gotta say I think personality is overrated in sports. Michael Jordan was a huge egomaniac and #####, didn’t hurt his career. TO was hated by everyone yet balled.  Lots of guys in sports you probably wouldn’t call leaders of men but had talents/gifts that made them great in their sports. Not sure I care how much people liked Bakers personality last year or Murray’s this year.  :shrug:

 
ffmail4me said:
I gotta say I think personality is overrated in sports. Michael Jordan was a huge egomaniac and #####, didn’t hurt his career. TO was hated by everyone yet balled.  Lots of guys in sports you probably wouldn’t call leaders of men but had talents/gifts that made them great in their sports. Not sure I care how much people liked Bakers personality last year or Murray’s this year.  :shrug:
Michael Jordan's "retirement" for two years in his prime has long been associated with gambling. There's even a theory that he was suspended. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/131997-mjs-1st-retirement-was-it-a-secret-suspension

Terrell Owens was suspended for a full season because of his personality issues and was never really the same after that.  

 
So we’re going to hold a high school kid’s pejorative tweets against him as to how he can perform in the NFL.

I know there is a segment of the population that insists on pc behavior in the name of thought control and what they do and do not consider acceptable (remarkably these same people also insist that they have cornered the market on tolerance), but for Pete’s sake - kids are going to be kids.  Hell, my buddies and I use plenty of locker room banter when conversing with each other, and I’ll bet almost all of these pc warlords do too.  

When did a right to not be offended get placed in the Bill of Rights?  If you’re going to castigate people for being people, there’s not going to be a lot of us left to actually be productive.  Damn, if you’re going to preach tolerance then act tolerant.  This wasn’t a kid actively advocating KKK positions.

 
ZenoRazon said:
size...EVERYONE wanted to know his height...EVERYONE, yep....matters.

he had 140 rushing attempts in 2018, that's more than 10 a game, which way too many.

bad interviews....how a guy handles himself in public tells you a lot about their confidence.

tweets....what was he saying while not on tweeter and does tell us what it isn't above.

he quit on a school and a baseball team, and did sign a contract

What next a #1 pick and a "what in the hell were we thinking" as Josh Rosen sips a beer in a bar with a big grin on his face.
Every team measures height of every prospect, takes 20 seconds.   EVERYONE spent hours pouring over Kyler Murray's tape, some invited him to their complex.  What he did on the field matters more or they would not have spent more than 20 seconds and certainly would not waste time, trouble, expense of inviting him to their complex or film study.

He threw 89% of his passes from the pocket but he has 4.3 Tyreek Hill speed and can make plays with his legs that other QBs can't so when he bails he's making big plays (12 TDs and  over 1,000 yards rushing) and many times when he bailed he bought time and opened up passing lanes to allow big passing plays (42 passing TDs).  The main reason why I like Kyler Murray so much is his ability be a true weapon when he runs the ball but the majority of his throws were from the pocket.

His poor interpersonal skills and lack of confidence clearly impacted his play at Oklahoma right?  Tweets?  Yer kidding right?  

Quit baseball, like Elway who quit on the team who drafted him and quit on the Yankees.  Yep, that is what John Elway is remember for, quitter.  Russell Wilson quit on the first college team and then quit on baseball, he'll never make it in the NFL and certainly won't win a Super Bowl or become the highest paid quarterback in NFL history.  Six Super Bowl appearances between them and all they are remember for is quitting.  Hey wait a second its almost like having baseball skills and quitting is a good sign for an NFL QB prospect.  Oh what were you saying?

 
I understand the risk, but I think it's very possible that in 2 years we are talking about a prospect being "the next Kyler Murray," just as I've seen some reference to "the next tyreek hill" with some of these smaller/fast wrs in this rookie class. 

If he busts, sure he busts bad. I am not sure I'd spend a 1st on him, but if I dont have needs elsewhere (te or wr) I'm probably going for him round 2 because the upside is tremendous.

As my teams are, I could use that 2nd elsewhere so it's a tough choice for me. 

 
Where would you superflex guys put him in your rookie draft?  Would him not being the 1.1 NFL draft pick, meaning ARI skips him and no one traded up, lower his fantasy stock?

 
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I read everyone up there and do get everyone opinions.  And was trying to get away from this because things were heating up on something nobody knows for sure about and won't for months, hell, many a couple years.

So with that said.

Let's shine the size thing,  maybe he is the next Russell Wilson only a lot faster.

Let's dump the tweet thing, hell, just a dumb kid, like all of us were at that age.

Let's forget the Texas A&M/Baseball trip, so what.

What does Charley Casserly really know about this kid?

Let's blame the Patrick interview on Patrick.

So he loves his dad and looks to him for guidance, no big deal.

Forget a couple others who have talked to him and came away not too impressed.

Let's see what happens.

 
I read everyone up there and do get everyone opinions.  And was trying to get away from this because things were heating up on something nobody knows for sure about and won't for months, hell, many a couple years.

So with that said.

Let's shine the size thing,  maybe he is the next Russell Wilson only a lot faster.

Let's dump the tweet thing, hell, just a dumb kid, like all of us were at that age.

Let's forget the Texas A&M/Baseball trip, so what.

What does Charley Casserly really know about this kid?

Let's blame the Patrick interview on Patrick.

So he loves his dad and looks to him for guidance, no big deal.

Forget a couple others who have talked to him and came away not too impressed.

Let's see what happens.
glad you're thinking reasonably now

 
Kyler is going to be really good. He has the Lions week 1. The last 2 rookie QBs that played the Lions in week 1 were Sam Darnold and Matt Ryan. 

 
What does Charley Casserly really know about this kid?
What does Charley Casserly know about evaluating quarterbacks?

----------------------------   Charley Casserly in February 2018 says Rosen ... he best QB in the 2018 draft.., Casserly thinks Rosen would be behind Daniel Jones in this draft

WBG84‏ @WBG84

Charley Casserly in February 2018 says Rosen has a "big-time arm", better than Darnold's, who went No. 3. Casserly even went on to say you could make Rosen the best QB in the 2018 draft. But again, Casserly thinks Rosen would be behind Daniel Jones in this draft. #GiantsPride

11:41 AM - 28 Mar 2019

---------------------------

QBs drafted by Charley Casserly as the GM of Washington

  • 1992-  4th round Chris Hakel QB William & Mary
  • 1994 - 1st round pick #3 of the draft Heath Shuler QB Tennessee = 7th round Gus Frerotte QB Tulsa
QBs drafted by Charley Casserly as the GM of the Houston Texans

  • 2002 - 1st pick of the draft David Carr QB Fresno State
  • 2004 - 7th round B.J. Symons QB Texas Tech
-----------------------------

 It is interesting to ask what Charlie Casserly really knows about evaluating quarterbacks.

 
What does Charley Casserly know about evaluating quarterbacks?

----------------------------   Charley Casserly in February 2018 says Rosen ... he best QB in the 2018 draft.., Casserly thinks Rosen would be behind Daniel Jones in this draft

WBG84‏ @WBG84

Charley Casserly in February 2018 says Rosen has a "big-time arm", better than Darnold's, who went No. 3. Casserly even went on to say you could make Rosen the best QB in the 2018 draft. But again, Casserly thinks Rosen would be behind Daniel Jones in this draft. #GiantsPride

11:41 AM - 28 Mar 2019

---------------------------

QBs drafted by Charley Casserly as the GM of Washington

  • 1992-  4th round Chris Hakel QB William & Mary
  • 1994 - 1st round pick #3 of the draft Heath Shuler QB Tennessee = 7th round Gus Frerotte QB Tulsa
QBs drafted by Charley Casserly as the GM of the Houston Texans

  • 2002 - 1st pick of the draft David Carr QB Fresno State
  • 2004 - 7th round B.J. Symons QB Texas Tech
-----------------------------

 It is interesting to ask what Charlie Casserly really knows about evaluating quarterbacks.
If it was just Casserly with a negative take on Murray,  so what big deal.... but it isn't.

But, I really don't want to go there anymore, yep, bored with that. 

I'm very confident in my ability to read people,  have a TON of experience with that and will now just chill and watch it go down like I know it will.

Internet

Zeno...I'm tall,dark and very handsome

posters as a group....sure you are.

Zeno...I;m short. fat and very ugly.

posters as a group....BINGO~~~~~~~~

 
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If it was just Casserly with a negative take on Murray,  so what big deal.... but it isn't.

But, I really don't want to go there anymore, yep, bored with that. 

I'm very confident in my ability to read people,  have a TON of experience with that and will now just chill and watch it go down like I know it will.

Internet

Zeno...I'm tall,dark and very handsome

posters as a group....sure you are.

Zeno...I;m short. fat and very ugly.

posters as a group....BINGO~~~~~~~~
:crazy:

 
If it was just Casserly with a negative take on Murray,  so what big deal.... but it isn't.

But, I really don't want to go there anymore, yep, bored with that. 

I'm very confident in my ability to read people,  have a TON of experience with that and will now just chill and watch it go down like I know it will.

Internet

Zeno...I'm tall,dark and very handsome

posters as a group....sure you are.

Zeno...I;m short. fat and very ugly.

posters as a group....BINGO~~~~~~~~
I think this is what you were trying to touch upon.  Quote

No one is questioning your ability to read people as a salesman or you abilities in sales or your success in sales or even your personal ability to read people in your field of sales.

I am sure you know quite a bit but I also give credit to the NFL to study many things in making evaluations in the draft, especially at the most important position.  They get it wrong but they get it right and I am as sure that they have body language experts and psych experts and medical experts and analytic experts taking all data and putting it into metrics and quantifying it to make decisions.

IOWs your expertise is part of but not the entire evaluation process just like height is part of but not the entire process.

 
Bracie

No on that quote, you see I had heard nothing about Murray at all other than he was a great athlete, which he is. So my take on him wasn't influensed by anything other than me watching how he carries himself and  how he does his thing. YES....maybe the sample size is too small that is a very real possibility.  I just know from past experiences my first take on somebody hits about 90% of the time.

Casserly, Patrick, a couple others saying what I was thinking came later. 

BUT....now it's time to cool all  that and sit back and watch what happens.

 
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Bracie

No on that quote, you see I had heard nothing about Murray at all other than he was a great athlete, which he is. So my take on him wasn't influensed by anything other than me watching how he carries himself and  how he does his thing. YES....maybe the sample size is too small that is a very real possibility.  I just know from past experiences my first take on somebody hits about 90% of the time.

Casserly, Patrick, a couple others saying what I was thinking came later. 

BUT....now it's time to cool all  that and sit back and watch what happens.
Confirmation bias is expedient.  Used to happen with black quarterbacks till Warren Moon, then things changed.  

Confirmation bias is used a lot.  Short QBs, and poor body types in general.  Take instant impressions on who the majority would favor at quarterback.

This guy >>> Prototype

or

This guy >>> GOAT

 
Zeno, this is not the peace corps, this is the NFL. I dont doubt you can read people, but it just doesnt have as much implication to playing football. A lot of posters here have provided examples of players doing well who did the same things you're knocking Murray about. But you dont waver, or even acknowledge.

Some of your examples are just silly, like the 8th grade twitter thing. A lot of people who are not homophobes have called somebody a queer. Even supposing Murray is, I haven't seen any study linking homophobia to poor quarterback play. 

 
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Bracie Smathers said:
Confirmation bias is expedient.  Used to happen with black quarterbacks till Warren Moon, then things changed.  

Confirmation bias is used a lot.  Short QBs, and poor body types in general.  Take instant impressions on who the majority would favor at quarterback.

This guy >>> Prototype

or

This guy >>> GOAT
I seriously doubt anyone thinks there is any "prototype" QB, since the best of all time up to Brady was skinny legged Joe Montana without a rocket arm. The highest paid QB in the NFL is 5-11.

If I'd never knew anything about what anyone else thought I;d still see Murray as a mistake when it comes to a first round pick.  I don't need anyone seeing it my way.

 
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cloppbeast said:
Zeno, this is not the peace corps, this is the NFL. I dont doubt you can read people, but it just doesnt have as much implication to playing football. A lot of posters here have provided examples of players doing well who did the same things you're knocking Murray about. But you dont waver, or even acknowledge.

Some of your examples are just silly, like the 8th grade twitter thing. A lot of people who are not homophobes have called somebody a queer. Even supposing Murray is, I haven't seen any study linking homophobia to poor quarterback play. 
So let's start over and just ignore his size, the twitter thing, the Texas A&M/baseball thing, the fact an A's reporter called him stupid, others talking about him lacking any communication skills, Let's just dump all that as misunderstandings, others being simply wrong.   

You think none of that matters and why even bother with it, ok, cool.

Now it's wait and see what happens time.

 
I seriously doubt anyone thinks there is any "prototype" QB, since the best of all time up to Brady was skinny legged Joe Montana without a rocket arm.

If I;d never knew anything about what anyone else thought I;d still see Murray as a mistake when it comes to a first round pick.  I don't need anyone seeing it my way.
So you would not adhere to prototypical standards of 'perceived' body language or 'perceived' leadership for quarterbacks?

I'm certain that teams had their druthers that they would pick and choose qualities that would be described as prototypical.   

I started this thread before Murray declared for the draft.  At that time no one was mocking him in the first round let alone with the first pick.

I thought he deserved a thread and high draft consideration due to his production and certain skills I feel will transfer to the NFL.  I felt he was overlooked. 

No one has to see it my way but I felt he deserved a thread and high draft consideration.

 
So you would not adhere to prototypical standards of 'perceived' body language or 'perceived' leadership for quarterbacks?

I'm certain that teams had their druthers that they would pick and choose qualities that would be described as prototypical.   

I started this thread before Murray declared for the draft.  At that time no one was mocking him in the first round let alone with the first pick.

I thought he deserved a thread and high draft consideration due to his production and certain skills I feel will transfer to the NFL.  I felt he was overlooked. 

No one has to see it my way but I felt he deserved a thread and high draft consideration.
I got the impression you were talking prototype in the look.  Which nobody really pays much attention to anymore, ya know Baker Mayfield.

Leadership is simply common sense not protoanything.

You started a thread to talk about him, you were looking for opinions, ok, I gave mine.  Simple as that.

When it comes to a teams first round pick in the draft it is VERY important they nail this one, here you don't roll the dice, that comes later,  here you look for everything you can to make damn sure you get this pick right. 

If you have to start, forget that one, just a kid then, others have done that, what does he know,he's wrong, that guy is wrong.  Is this really what anyone wants to deal with on that first pick? 

BUT....really am tiring of this now, really is time to just watch what happens.

 
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I got the impression you were talking prototype in the look.  Which nobody really pays much attention to anymore, ya know Baker Mayfield.

Leadership is simply common sense not protoanything.

You started a thread to talk about him, you were looking for opinions, ok, I gave mine.  Simple as that.

When it comes to a teams first round pick in the draft it is VERY important they nail this one, here you don't roll the dice, that comes later,  here you look for everything you can to make damn sure you get this pick right. 

If you have to start, forget that one, just a kid then, others have done that, what does he know,he's wrong, that guy is wrong.  Is this really what anyone wants to deal with on that first pick? 

BUT....really am tiring of this now, really is time to just watch what happens.
I would get tired of repeating myself 10+ times too.

 

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