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QB Kyler Murray, ARZ (1 Viewer)

He averaged just under 70 yards rushing per game last year in college. I don’t think expecting half that in the NFL(once he settles in) is too ambitious. 

 
Nucker101 said:
I think our best bet for rushing yards is when he's under pressure and escapes, basically a last resort type of thing instead of a Vick, RG3, Jackson, healthy Cam style.

More like Wilson last year when he averaged 23.5 rush yards per game and dialled back the running. 
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Wasn't Vick's running mostly on scrambles?

If I recall he would have a few really long highlight runs every year to really boost his rushing stats.  I think Murray has that same kind of speed.  It's just a matter of if they'll let him use it when things break down or have him throw it away to protect himself.

 
Kyler Murray completed 25-of-40 passes for 349 yards, zero touchdowns and zero interceptions in the Cardinals' 23-17, Week 2 loss against the Ravens.

Murray is just the second QB in NFL history to throw for at least 300 yards in each of his first two career games. The Cardinals’ offensive line didn’t make life easy for Murray all afternoon, but he was able to make the most of a bad situation thanks to his ability to make plays out of the pocket and complete passes off his back foot. The only "concern" with Murray’s performance through two weeks has been the lack of consistent rushing production; he’s totaled just six carries for 17-scoreless yards to this point. He’ll be a low-end QB1 at home in Week 3 against the Panthers.
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onionsack said:
The second QB in NFL history to throw for at least 300 yards in each of his first two career games. On a crap team. The rushing yards and TDs will come. This dynasty owner is thrilled with the early returns.
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I second this. Against a stout ravens defense where many predicted Kyler might get murdered

 
He looks great as a passer.  The TDs will come.  The lack of usage as a runner is concerning.

The two kind of go hand in hand.  It's interesting watching Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson sent out on bootleg's and rollouts inside the 10 that lead to the defense having to choose between leaving an open receiver or stopping them from running it in, and then watching Kyler Murray be forced to sit in the pocket inside the 10 and kick field goal after field goal.

They need to get more creative down their and use his running ability as the asset that it is in that area of the field especially.

 
Yeah, at this point it’s clear that he’s not comfortable running in the NFL. Maybe down the stretch or next year he’ll start to rush a bit more but his FF ceiling right now definitely takes a hit. Luckily he’s a damn good passer in a pass-happy offense. 

 
FreeBaGeL said:
He looks great as a passer.  The TDs will come.  The lack of usage as a runner is concerning.

The two kind of go hand in hand.  It's interesting watching Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson sent out on bootleg's and rollouts inside the 10 that lead to the defense having to choose between leaving an open receiver or stopping them from running it in, and then watching Kyler Murray be forced to sit in the pocket inside the 10 and kick field goal after field goal.

They need to get more creative down their and use his running ability as the asset that it is in that area of the field especially.
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He is half the size of Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson.  

The reason he isn't running is obvious.  He will simply get killed.  Especially inside the 10 where those bigger QBs can challenge a linebacker at the goal line, this kid will be broken in half.

The good news is he looks way better as a passer than I had personally let myself believe.

 
pantherclub said:
fantasy bust based on expectations 
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Can you break that down a bit?  I mean I don't even think any comparison could really begin to make any sense  I'm just saying that maybe some folks will begin to doubt your savvy 

Personally, I have never been one to draft a Rookie QB in the first round   So I have watched quite a few fails over the years for teams who really deserved a break   I mean its only two games and whose for certain the level of competition but man I'm stoked   (Gotta be my best pick ever)  2QB league if not quite obvious

 
I was actually coming here to say its clear he is not a bust. TDs and rushing will come.

He looks incredible. Accuracy is a good predictor of success and the guy can throw the ball very well

 
As a Ravens fan I was blown away by Murray today. Cardinals are going to score a ton of points this year. He’s not a big runner, more of an opportunistic scrambler, but who cares? Big fan. 

Super Bowl is going to be winner of Kyler-Dax vs winner of Lamar/Mahomes 

 
The_Man said:
As a Ravens fan I was blown away by Murray today. Cardinals are going to score a ton of points this year. He’s not a big runner, more of an opportunistic scrambler, but who cares? Big fan. 

Super Bowl is going to be winner of Kyler-Dax vs winner of Lamar/Mahomes 
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Dax?

 
onionsack said:
The second QB in NFL history to throw for at least 300 yards in each of his first two career games. On a crap team. The rushing yards and TDs will come. This dynasty owner is thrilled with the early returns.
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well we are talking redraft here and he has been nothing special after 2 games.  Fantasy speaking he is a gamble to start.  People on this thread, not naming names, were pumping him up as the #1 OVERALL pick in redraft and others were saying he is another mahommes.    murray will get his chances but to start him now is just insane.  

When you say the rushing yards and tds will come what are you basing that on?   to me today the kid looked scared to run

 
pantherclub said:
well we are talking redraft here and he has been nothing special after 2 games.  Fantasy speaking he is a gamble to start.  People on this thread, not naming names, were pumping him up as the #1 OVERALL pick in redraft and others were saying he is another mahommes.    murray will get his chances but to start him now is just insane.  

When you say the rushing yards and tds will come what are you basing that on?   to me today the kid looked scared to run
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False

Never once have I ever seen him named as the 1.1 in redraft. We had a discussion about 1.1 in rookie drafts. 

 
He's afraid to get hit, even on sacks he gives himself up before getting tackled. He's not going to run much in the NFL. But man he looks good as a passer and this offense is FF gold for the passing game. 

 
Nucker101 said:
He's afraid to get hit, even on sacks he gives himself up before getting tackled. He's not going to run much in the NFL. But man he looks good as a passer and this offense is FF gold for the passing game. 
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I prefer this to Deshaun Watson sacrifice the body kamikaze mode when getting those extra rush yards and first downs. 

 
matuski said:
He is half the size of Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson.  

The reason he isn't running is obvious.  He will simply get killed.  Especially inside the 10 where those bigger QBs can challenge a linebacker at the goal line, this kid will be broken in half.

The good news is he looks way better as a passer than I had personally let myself believe.
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Kyler's combine measurements (5'10" 207lbs) are almost identical to Russell Wilson's (5'11" 206lbs) and Wilson has done a ton of running in the league.

I think player's pad choices fool our eyes a lot into how large players look on the field compared to their actual body size.  Wilson wears very thick pads, hence he looks larger than he is out on the actual field.  We see this with AJ Brown/DK Metcalf too, where AJB looks so huge on the field he looks almost like a TE while Metcalf looks surprisingly skinny.  Yet we know from the notorious weight room photo (Metcalf far left, AJB far right) that Metcalf is actually larger than Brown.

I think Kyler's aversion to running and tendency to drop in the pocket when he's about to get sacked is being coached into him.  He didn't do that in college even when playing against Georgia/Ohio State's future NFL linemen.  I think Kingsbury knows this year is a wash and is trying to avoid an RG3 situation where his guy gets wrecked before they're even competing.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Kyler's combine measurements (5'10" 207lbs) are almost identical to Russell Wilson's (5'11" 206lbs) and Wilson has done a ton of running in the league.

I think player's pad choices fool our eyes a lot into how large players look on the field compared to their actual body size.  Wilson wears very thick pads, hence he looks larger than he is out on the actual field.  We see this with AJ Brown/DK Metcalf too, where AJB looks so huge on the field he looks almost like a TE while Metcalf looks surprisingly skinny.  Yet we know from the notorious weight room photo (Metcalf far left, AJB far right) that Metcalf is actually larger than Brown.

I think Kyler's aversion to running and tendency to drop in the pocket when he's about to get sacked is being coached into him.  He didn't do that in college even when playing against Georgia/Ohio State's future NFL linemen.  I think Kingsbury knows this year is a wash and is trying to avoid an RG3 situation where his guy gets wrecked before they're even competing.
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I realize those were his combine measurements.  I'm calling bullshizzle.

He looked like a middle schooler on his tippy toes trying to talk smack back to Mathew Jadon.

The kid is absolutely itsy bitsy teeny weeny.  My eyeballs say so.  

eta - Also, I will continue to start him until he does get broken in half.

 
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I recall people commenting week 1 on how small he looks. and yes, next to a 6'4 lineman he looks tiny. But then watching NO, Brees doesnt look to be much taller. 

Was his height fudged? Maybe. :tinfoilhat:  Maybe not. Do I care? No. 

At this point it's clear he's got the chops to make it as an NFL QB and be a solid fantasy QB. Anyone saying otherwise is likely just sour grapes because they passed on him. 

FTR- It's a legitimate point to make about what happens when he takes a big hit, but at the same time the NFL protects QBs so much I'm not sure if it's worth any energy being concerned about it. 

Glad I bought in when I did

 
Dr. Dan said:
I recall people commenting week 1 on how small he looks. and yes, next to a 6'4 lineman he looks tiny. But then watching NO, Brees doesnt look to be much taller. 

Was his height fudged? Maybe. :tinfoilhat:  Maybe not. Do I care? No. 

At this point it's clear he's got the chops to make it as an NFL QB and be a solid fantasy QB. Anyone saying otherwise is likely just sour grapes because they passed on him. 

FTR- It's a legitimate point to make about what happens when he takes a big hit, but at the same time the NFL protects QBs so much I'm not sure if it's worth any energy being concerned about it. 

Glad I bought in when I did
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And likewise there doesn't really seem to be any correlation between QB size and injuries.  Most of the QBs that run a moderate amount or more that have had injury issues (Cam, Culpepper, Luck, etc) are pretty big guys.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
And likewise there doesn't really seem to be any correlation between QB size and injuries.  Most of the QBs that run a moderate amount or more that have had injury issues (Cam, Culpepper, Luck, etc) are pretty big guys.
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Apples and Oranges.

Cam, Culpepper, Luck... big ### dudes playing/running physically.

Murray's options do not include taking on a linebacker.  He can't win that... nor survive it.

 
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matuski said:
Apples and Oranges.

Cam, Culpepper, Luck... big ### dudes playing/running physically.

Murray's options do not include taking on a linebacker.  He can't win that... nor survive it.
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Russell Wilson is the closest "apple" we have to Murray and hes survived just fine. To Freebagels point, it seems there would be a stronger correlation between bigger QBs running and injuries compared to smaller qbs running and injuries... based on the sample sizes available to us. 

 
I realize I appear to be hating on Murray.. just clarifying I am not.  He has shocked me on how good he looks throwing.

I am just saying - he isn't running because when he does, he isn't long for the league.  He is slight in build even relative to the other "small" QB's, much less the QB's FreeBagel is listing.

He needs to run to stay alive, not run for yards.

 
Dr. Dan said:
Russell Wilson is the closest "apple" we have to Murray and hes survived just fine. To Freebagels point, it seems there would be a stronger correlation between bigger QBs running and injuries compared to smaller qbs running and injuries... based on the sample sizes available to us. 
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See post above.. Russel is a shorter QB, I wouldn't call him small - he is built like a RB.

Murray simply isn't.

 
matuski said:
See post above.. Russel is a shorter QB, I wouldn't call him small - he is built like a RB.

Murray simply isn't.
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Since the combine is the only hard evidence we have of Murray's size... 

Wilson BMI: 29.0

Murray BMI: 29.7

If you're calling BS on his height, that's even more in Murrays favor. If hes 5'9 his BMI goes up to 30.6

Research would suggest the most productive BMI for a RB is 31-31.9

Of course we can say it's not about BMI for RBs, and I'd agree to some point there. But at the same.time you're calling him a twig, which is in reference to his height and weight. According to the numbers hes got more mass to absorb hits than Wilson

 
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Dr. Dan said:
Since the combine is the only hard evidence we have of Murray's size... 

Wilson BMI: 29.0

Murray BMI: 29.7

If you're calling BS on his height, that's even more in Murrays favor. If hes 5'9 his BMI goes up to 30.6

Research would suggest the most productive BMI for a RB is 31-31.9

Of course we can say it's not about BMI for RBs, and I'd agree to some point there. But at the same.time you're calling him a twig, which is in reference to his height and weight. According to the numbers hes got more mass to absorb hits than Wilson
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:shrug:

Like I said - I see his measurements, and you can argue BMI and pad choices.

My eyes tell me different.  They tell me 5'10" and 207 are BS.. both of em.  By a good margin.

Anyways - to me this is the plain obvious reason he isn't running, otherwise his Mike Vick speed would be a shame to waste.  I'll leave it at that.

 
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onionsack said:
The second QB in NFL history to throw for at least 300 yards in each of his first two career games. On a crap team. The rushing yards and TDs will come. This dynasty owner is thrilled with the early returns.
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I watched every play of both games. A few things stick out to me... He has thrown over 300 yds both games. He sits in the pocket and uses his arm to make plays. When he scrambles out, he's smart, not stupid... and will throw the ball away if he has to, as being opposed to taking the big hit. Yea, he had some throws where he missed the WRs high and whatnot, but what more could you ask for when a rookie gets started off the rip week 1 and week 2. We haven't even seen him unleashed as a runner, but I did see how quick he was when a DL or LB came rushing in and he side stepped them, making them missed.

BUY LOW in dynasty now before its too late. Look at Lamar Jackson.... I see a very similar style player. The TDs will come. Tag TDs and rushing yds onto what he has already done and he will start, especially in deeper leagues. (I play in a 20 team dynasty league, btw... so my opinion might weigh a little differently than others.)

 
Max Power said:
Kid runs backwards to try and escape a sack then ends up losing 10 yards each time.  Not sure why the coach lets that continue. 
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He's had  lot of success early but most qb's and certainly most running qb's learn this the hard way, he will learn and today was probably a good lesson

 
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