QB Marcus Mariota, WAS (2 Viewers)

[CalBear]

If you don't factor in the inherent knucklehead risk. Sure.

The ceiling by definition removes the risk.

There is no way he has a higher floor.

The floor is higher because you know he can operate in a NFL scheme.

Can we get over this "NFL throw" and "NFL scheme" crap? There are a ton of NFL schemes and a ton of NFL throws, and a lot of them look a lot like Oregon. Philip Rivers took 92% of his snaps out of the shotgun; league-wide, 58% of offensive snaps are out of the shotgun. 56% of NFL formations have at least three wide receivers. The Broncos go no-huddle on 48% of snaps.

If Mariota were entering the league in 1978, he'd have trouble with the schemes. In 2014 there are plenty of places which can use his talents as-is.

 

[cstu]

I feel that Mariota is just another Johnny talent wise. Only a little more humble and quiet. When are some going to learn, the time has come and gone for running QBs in the NFL not named Wilson. Do not compare a college player to a SB winning QB, that would be embarrassing.

I like Winston more even though yesterdays game was not his shining moment. Winston had his faults but man I have never seen so many drops in my life.

Sure, ok, let's just ignore the SB winning QB who played in a spread offense in college and put up similar numbers to Mariota. Great idea.

 

[jurb26]

If you don't factor in the inherent knucklehead risk. Sure.

The ceiling by definition removes the risk.

There is no way he has a higher floor.

The floor is higher because you know he can operate in a NFL scheme.

Can we get over this "NFL throw" and "NFL scheme" crap? There are a ton of NFL schemes and a ton of NFL throws, and a lot of them look a lot like Oregon. Philip Rivers took 92% of his snaps out of the shotgun; league-wide, 58% of offensive snaps are out of the shotgun. 56% of NFL formations have at least three wide receivers. The Broncos go no-huddle on 48% of snaps.

If Mariota were entering the league in 1978, he'd have trouble with the schemes. In 2014 there are plenty of places which can use his talents as-is.

I said scheme, not throws.Rivers displayed both even from the shotgun. He won from the pocket and was my top QB that year. This is a terrible comp.

 

[CalBear]

I feel that Mariota is just another Johnny talent wise. Only a little more humble and quiet. When are some going to learn, the time has come and gone for running QBs in the NFL not named Wilson. Do not compare a college player to a SB winning QB, that would be embarrassing.

I like Winston more even though yesterdays game was not his shining moment. Winston had his faults but man I have never seen so many drops in my life.

Sure, ok, let's just ignore the SB winning QB who played in a spread offense in college and put up similar numbers to Mariota. Great idea.

Don't forget redefining the consensus best QB in the league and likely MVP (Rodgers) as not a "running" QB despite the fact that he's #6 among QBs in rushing yardage over the past 5 years. Oh, and ignoring the consensus #1 QB dynasty pick (Luck) who is #6 among QBs in rushing yardage since he entered the league.

I guess only the top 5 count as running QBs.

 

[CalBear]

If you don't factor in the inherent knucklehead risk. Sure.

The ceiling by definition removes the risk.

There is no way he has a higher floor.

The floor is higher because you know he can operate in a NFL scheme.

Can we get over this "NFL throw" and "NFL scheme" crap? There are a ton of NFL schemes and a ton of NFL throws, and a lot of them look a lot like Oregon. Philip Rivers took 92% of his snaps out of the shotgun; league-wide, 58% of offensive snaps are out of the shotgun. 56% of NFL formations have at least three wide receivers. The Broncos go no-huddle on 48% of snaps.

If Mariota were entering the league in 1978, he'd have trouble with the schemes. In 2014 there are plenty of places which can use his talents as-is.

I said scheme, not throws.Rivers displayed both even from the shotgun. He won from the pocket and was my top QB that year. This is a terrible comp.

What does "NFL scheme" mean, then? To me, a hurry-up scheme with snaps taken mostly from the shotgun and 3+ WRs on the field per play looks a whole lot like Oregon's scheme, and there are more and more teams running those schemes.

 

[IHEARTFF]

I feel that Mariota is just another Johnny talent wise. Only a little more humble and quiet. When are some going to learn, the time has come and gone for running QBs in the NFL not named Wilson. Do not compare a college player to a SB winning QB, that would be embarrassing.

I like Winston more even though yesterdays game was not his shining moment. Winston had his faults but man I have never seen so many drops in my life.

Sure, ok, let's just ignore the SB winning QB who played in a spread offense in college and put up similar numbers to Mariota. Great idea.

Don't forget redefining the consensus best QB in the league and likely MVP (Rodgers) as not a "running" QB despite the fact that he's #6 among QBs in rushing yardage over the past 5 years. Oh, and ignoring the consensus #1 QB dynasty pick (Luck) who is #6 among QBs in rushing yardage since he entered the league.

I guess only the top 5 count as running QBs.

I guess those guys and Alex Smith are not the kind of "running qbs" he had in mind.

 

[FUBAR]

If you don't factor in the inherent knucklehead risk. Sure.

The ceiling by definition removes the risk.

There is no way he has a higher floor.

The floor is higher because you know he can operate in a NFL scheme.

His 'floor' is completely busting out due to immaturity or trying to play baseball. If he commits to football and keeps his nose clean his floor is higher.

They both could bust but the odds of Winston being out of the NFL in a couple years is a lot higher than MM.

that said, at least if that happens you can drop him easily

 

[TDorBust]

I feel that Mariota is just another Johnny talent wise. Only a little more humble and quiet. When are some going to learn, the time has come and gone for running QBs in the NFL not named Wilson. Do not compare a college player to a SB winning QB, that would be embarrassing.

I like Winston more even though yesterdays game was not his shining moment. Winston had his faults but man I have never seen so many drops in my life.

Sure, ok, let's just ignore the SB winning QB who played in a spread offense in college and put up similar numbers to Mariota. Great idea.

Don't forget redefining the consensus best QB in the league and likely MVP (Rodgers) as not a "running" QB despite the fact that he's #6 among QBs in rushing yardage over the past 5 years. Oh, and ignoring the consensus #1 QB dynasty pick (Luck) who is #6 among QBs in rushing yardage since he entered the league.

I guess only the top 5 count as running QBs.

Have you watched Rodgers? He is not a running QB, he is a QB who happens to get yardage with his legs on occasion. Look at Rodgers stats in college for rushing as well nothing that would lend you to believe he is a running QB.

Can Mariota become someone who doesn't look to run around and rely's on his arm first/second/third? Him being such a great athlete in college and being able to run circles around people is actually something that will hinder him at the next level as its almost a bad habit at this point for him to succeed long term.

I still think rushing QBs have a place in the NFL to succeed but only for the short term both because of injury as well as defensive adjustment to their skill. I dont think you need to have a pro-style offence in college or anything like that.

 

[cstu]

Have you watched Rodgers? He is not a running QB, he is a QB who happens to get yardage with his legs on occasion. Look at Rodgers stats in college for rushing as well nothing that would lend you to believe he is a running QB.

Can Mariota become someone who doesn't look to run around and rely's on his arm first/second/third? Him being such a great athlete in college and being able to run circles around people is actually something that will hinder him at the next level as its almost a bad habit at this point for him to succeed long term.

I still think rushing QBs have a place in the NFL to succeed but only for the short term both because of injury as well as defensive adjustment to their skill. I dont think you need to have a pro-style offence in college or anything like that.

Pass to Run ratio:

Rodgers:

349/86 (4.0)

316/74 (4.3)

Mariota:

336/106 (3.2)

386/96 (4.0)

408/125 (3.3)

Career Pass/Run ratio:

Brees: 6.6

Luck: 6.5

Rodgers: 4.2

Mariota: 3.5

Wilson: 3.4

Manuel: 3.0

Hundley: 2.6

Manziel: 2.5

Locker: 2.5

Griffin: 2.3

Kaepernick: 2.1

V. Young: 1.6

Newton: 1.0

 

[mr roboto]

Oof.

 

[CalBear]

I feel that Mariota is just another Johnny talent wise. Only a little more humble and quiet. When are some going to learn, the time has come and gone for running QBs in the NFL not named Wilson. Do not compare a college player to a SB winning QB, that would be embarrassing.

I like Winston more even though yesterdays game was not his shining moment. Winston had his faults but man I have never seen so many drops in my life.

Sure, ok, let's just ignore the SB winning QB who played in a spread offense in college and put up similar numbers to Mariota. Great idea.

Don't forget redefining the consensus best QB in the league and likely MVP (Rodgers) as not a "running" QB despite the fact that he's #6 among QBs in rushing yardage over the past 5 years. Oh, and ignoring the consensus #1 QB dynasty pick (Luck) who is #6 among QBs in rushing yardage since he entered the league.

I guess only the top 5 count as running QBs.

Have you watched Rodgers? He is not a running QB, he is a QB who happens to get yardage with his legs on occasion. Look at Rodgers stats in college for rushing as well nothing that would lend you to believe he is a running QB.

Can Mariota become someone who doesn't look to run around and rely's on his arm first/second/third? Him being such a great athlete in college and being able to run circles around people is actually something that will hinder him at the next level as its almost a bad habit at this point for him to succeed long term.

I still think rushing QBs have a place in the NFL to succeed but only for the short term both because of injury as well as defensive adjustment to their skill. I dont think you need to have a pro-style offence in college or anything like that.

Did you notice my avatar? I know a little bit about Rodgers. He averaged 80 rushing attempts and had 8 rushing TDs in his two years at Cal.

Mariota doesn't look to run around primarily. He regularly resets his feet and looks for additional receivers. His style of play is a lot closer to Rodgers' than it is to Wilson's. That doesn't mean that he will have Rodgers' accuracy or his exemplary decision-making, but it does mean that you're making an essentially meaningless distinction in terms of play style.

 

[mr roboto]

I love it when somebody gets caught spouting off when they don't understand what they're talking about.

Taking the running out of it though there is a legitimate concern that Oregon's playcalling and design is different enough to many NFL offenses that Mariota's stats and production could be a function more of the system then his talent. This is a much better critique then "he's a running quarterback".

If my favorite team drafted Mariota I sure as hell would want him to run once plays broke down. I would want my offensive coordinator to design some quarterback runs like they do in Carolina. I get that we are all gun shy because of some recent mobile quarterbacks having a hard time but that doesn't mean that a fast quarterback can't be a huge benefit for an NFL team. Griffin was amazing his rookie year but he's too small and seems to get hurt every time he gets hit. This is why Teddy Bridgewater has been reticent to run ever since his injury because he's not quite big enough. Mariota is a big boy and shouldn't be as concerned about injury while running as a guy like Griffin or Teddy would be. Johnny football is a ridiculous comparison because Johnny is way smaller than Mariota, has little maturity and was a much worse prospect from a passing perspective coming out of college.

 

[cstu]

I love it when somebody gets caught spouting off when they don't understand what they're talking about.

Taking the running out of it though there is a legitimate concern that Oregon's playcalling and design is different enough to many NFL offenses that Mariota's stats and production could be a function more of the system then his talent. This is a much better critique then "he's a running quarterback".

If my favorite team drafted Mariota I sure as hell would want him to run once plays broke down. I would want my offensive coordinator to design some quarterback runs like they do in Carolina. I get that we are all gun shy because of some recent mobile quarterbacks having a hard time but that doesn't mean that a fast quarterback can't be a huge benefit for an NFL team. Griffin was amazing his rookie year but he's too small and seems to get hurt every time he gets hit. This is why Teddy Bridgewater has been reticent to run ever since his injury because he's not quite big enough. Mariota is a big boy and shouldn't be as concerned about injury while running as a guy like Griffin or Teddy would be. Johnny football is a ridiculous comparison because Johnny is way smaller than Mariota, has little maturity and was a much worse prospect from a passing perspective coming out of college.

Exactly. I'm not denying there's concern about how well he'll be able to adjust to the NFL, especially if he has to start right away.

The Bucs are a great situation for him since there should be not rush to start him over Glennon. I'd be happy if he didn't play at all in 2015.

Regarding Griffin, the problem wasn't necessarily his size but that his running style was too aggressive and he didn't know how to avoid contact. How many times his rookie year did you watch him fail to slide properly or get out of bounds instead of trying to pick up extra yardage?

 

[mr roboto]

I love it when somebody gets caught spouting off when they don't understand what they're talking about.

Taking the running out of it though there is a legitimate concern that Oregon's playcalling and design is different enough to many NFL offenses that Mariota's stats and production could be a function more of the system then his talent. This is a much better critique then "he's a running quarterback".

If my favorite team drafted Mariota I sure as hell would want him to run once plays broke down. I would want my offensive coordinator to design some quarterback runs like they do in Carolina. I get that we are all gun shy because of some recent mobile quarterbacks having a hard time but that doesn't mean that a fast quarterback can't be a huge benefit for an NFL team. Griffin was amazing his rookie year but he's too small and seems to get hurt every time he gets hit. This is why Teddy Bridgewater has been reticent to run ever since his injury because he's not quite big enough. Mariota is a big boy and shouldn't be as concerned about injury while running as a guy like Griffin or Teddy would be. Johnny football is a ridiculous comparison because Johnny is way smaller than Mariota, has little maturity and was a much worse prospect from a passing perspective coming out of college.

Exactly. I'm not denying there's concern about how well he'll be able to adjust to the NFL, especially if he has to start right away.

The Bucs are a great situation for him since there should be not rush to start him over Glennon. I'd be happy if he didn't play at all in 2015.

Regarding Griffin, the problem wasn't necessarily his size but that his running style was too aggressive and he didn't know how to avoid contact. How many times his rookie year did you watch him fail to slide properly or get out of bounds instead of trying to pick up extra yardage?

Problem is the bolded won't happen.

 

[jurb26]

If you don't factor in the inherent knucklehead risk. Sure.

The ceiling by definition removes the risk.

There is no way he has a higher floor.

The floor is higher because you know he can operate in a NFL scheme.

Can we get over this "NFL throw" and "NFL scheme" crap? There are a ton of NFL schemes and a ton of NFL throws, and a lot of them look a lot like Oregon. Philip Rivers took 92% of his snaps out of the shotgun; league-wide, 58% of offensive snaps are out of the shotgun. 56% of NFL formations have at least three wide receivers. The Broncos go no-huddle on 48% of snaps.

If Mariota were entering the league in 1978, he'd have trouble with the schemes. In 2014 there are plenty of places which can use his talents as-is.

I said scheme, not throws.Rivers displayed both even from the shotgun. He won from the pocket and was my top QB that year. This is a terrible comp.

What does "NFL scheme" mean, then? To me, a hurry-up scheme with snaps taken mostly from the shotgun and 3+ WRs on the field per play looks a whole lot like Oregon's scheme, and there are more and more teams running those schemes.

Lots of things. NFL routes

NFL throws

NFL reads

NFL drops

NFL route progression

Whole field read progression responsibility

Route combinations

Throwing receivers open into space based on timing

Attacking all areas of the field with throws

Pocket awareness and responsibility

Manipulation of coverage with eyes

Presnap read responsibility

Post snap recognition of coverage

I'm sure I'm missing some. It seems some of you are the ones trying to make this only about throws when I and many others have talked about a much wider spectrum than that.

 

[Spookytooth]

So, where do people see him going standard/ppr drafts? Top five overall? Second round of twelve team leagues? Interested in your thoughts.

 

[CalBear]

If you don't factor in the inherent knucklehead risk. Sure.

The ceiling by definition removes the risk.

There is no way he has a higher floor.

The floor is higher because you know he can operate in a NFL scheme.

Can we get over this "NFL throw" and "NFL scheme" crap? There are a ton of NFL schemes and a ton of NFL throws, and a lot of them look a lot like Oregon. Philip Rivers took 92% of his snaps out of the shotgun; league-wide, 58% of offensive snaps are out of the shotgun. 56% of NFL formations have at least three wide receivers. The Broncos go no-huddle on 48% of snaps.

If Mariota were entering the league in 1978, he'd have trouble with the schemes. In 2014 there are plenty of places which can use his talents as-is.

I said scheme, not throws.Rivers displayed both even from the shotgun. He won from the pocket and was my top QB that year. This is a terrible comp.

What does "NFL scheme" mean, then? To me, a hurry-up scheme with snaps taken mostly from the shotgun and 3+ WRs on the field per play looks a whole lot like Oregon's scheme, and there are more and more teams running those schemes.

Lots of things.NFL routes

NFL throws

NFL reads

NFL drops

NFL route progression

Whole field read progression responsibility

Route combinations

Throwing receivers open into space based on timing

Attacking all areas of the field with throws

Pocket awareness and responsibility

Manipulation of coverage with eyes

Presnap read responsibility

Post snap recognition of coverage

I'm sure I'm missing some. It seems some of you are the ones trying to make this only about throws when I and many others have talked about a much wider spectrum than that.

I'm wondering which of these things you think Oregon or Mariota doesn't do.

• What routes are run in the NFL that aren't run at Oregon?
• What is an "NFL throw"?
• What is an "NFL drop" when more than one NFL team plays out of the shotgun over 90% of the time?

In terms of read responsibilities, I think Mariota is above average in the NCAA context. He makes bad decisions very rarely, and he often stands in the pocket, or breaks the pocket and resets looking for a receiver.

Just grabbing some random highlights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M0xfn5u6L0

0:54: Looks left, comes back deep middle and hits the receiver deep in stride.

1:02: Starts right, reads at least one, maybe two receivers there, comes back left and lobs a soft pass.

1:55: Looks downfield, pump fake, hits outlet receiver in stride.

2:39: Checks one read, slides away from pressure, checks another, breaks the pocket, keeps his head up, communicates with the receiver and makes a completion across the field.

3:30: Throws across his body while rolling left

3:33: Keeps head up, uses pump fake to freeze defender while rolling right, lobs soft pass

3:56: Checks read, ducks pressure, resets, throws to second read in tight window

Those are not isolated plays. He plays like that all the time. So even leaving out his top-notch athletic ability, he's a pretty dang good college QB. And he has top-notch athletic ability.

 

[cstu]

So, where do people see him going standard/ppr drafts? Top five overall? Second round of twelve team leagues? Interested in your thoughts.

In 1 QB leagues I expect him to go mid-1st but I'm not considering him until at least the late 1st. Too many good prospects in this draft at more valuable positions.

 

[ptsteelers]

I suspect he will go about 7 or so in our 12 teamer, but to a QB needy team so yeah, mid/late to late first

 

[CR69]

cstu and CalBear doing work ITT. Basically +1 to everything either of them have said.

 

[jurb26]

Those are not isolated plays. He plays like that all the time. So even leaving out his top-notch athletic ability, he's a pretty dang good college QB. And he has top-notch athletic ability.

Nobody is disputing this.I think you mistakenly linked RB highlights instead of QB in your post, though.

You want an example of an NFL pass from a college QB look no further than the key dropped 3rd down pass by a FSU WR in the first quarter of last nights game. Deep in route, timing, throwing the man open, fitting it into a tight window, delivered with velocity and accuracy while standing tall and making it to a 2nd option from the pocket. Winston makes those throws with regularity. I've yet to see Mariota make one. This was the most impressive pass of the night and it resulted in nothing on the scoreboard.

 

[CalBear]

Those are not isolated plays. He plays like that all the time. So even leaving out his top-notch athletic ability, he's a pretty dang good college QB. And he has top-notch athletic ability.

Nobody is disputing this.I think you mistakenly linked RB highlights instead of QB in your post, though.

You want an example of an NFL pass from a college QB look no further than the key dropped 3rd down pass by a FSU WR in the first quarter of last nights game. Deep in route, timing, throwing the man open, fitting it into a tight window, delivered with velocity and accuracy while standing tall and making it to a 2nd option from the pocket. Winston makes those throws with regularity. I've yet to see Mariota make one. This was the most impressive pass of the night and it resulted in nothing on the scoreboard.

Every play I mentioned was a passing play which demonstrated the ability to read and pick apart a defense by going to secondary options. I see you aren't even bothering to try to respond to it.

I also notice that you didn't watch the first TD pass from Mariota to Carrington in the Rose Bowl. The second one was pretty sweet, too. That set up "NFL-ready" Winston to come up with the doofiest play of the NCAA season.

And by the way: The ability to run isn't a negative for any player in the NFL.

 

[Faust]

The Duck-friendly lesson gleaned from Mariota’s brief struggles:

http://nypost.com/2015/01/03/the-duck-friendly-lesson-gleaned-from-mariotas-brief-struggles/

 

[jurb26]

Those are not isolated plays. He plays like that all the time. So even leaving out his top-notch athletic ability, he's a pretty dang good college QB. And he has top-notch athletic ability.

Nobody is disputing this.I think you mistakenly linked RB highlights instead of QB in your post, though.

You want an example of an NFL pass from a college QB look no further than the key dropped 3rd down pass by a FSU WR in the first quarter of last nights game. Deep in route, timing, throwing the man open, fitting it into a tight window, delivered with velocity and accuracy while standing tall and making it to a 2nd option from the pocket. Winston makes those throws with regularity. I've yet to see Mariota make one. This was the most impressive pass of the night and it resulted in nothing on the scoreboard.

Every play I mentioned was a passing play which demonstrated the ability to read and pick apart a defense by going to secondary options. I see you aren't even bothering to try to respond to it.

I also notice that you didn't watch the first TD pass from Mariota to Carrington in the Rose Bowl. The second one was pretty sweet, too. That set up "NFL-ready" Winston to come up with the doofiest play of the NCAA season.

And by the way: The ability to run isn't a negative for any player in the NFL.

His first TD pass was a single read, not even half field, throw into a window that was 10 yds. The second was the same kind of read functioning off the quick screen. Nothing about that play(s) supports your claim. I wasn't talking most of that serious. For good reason.From an article about scouting Oregon.

"The Ducks' innovative offense simplifies QB decisions and this is roughly the same scheme Mariota played in high school. As such, some of the basics like taking the ball from under center and scanning downfield while dropping back are skills Mariota hasn't been asked to master yet. He's overly reliant (at this point) on his first read, occasionally commits the cardinal sin of throwing late across his body and wasn't a year ago when injury sapped him off his maneuverability and he was forced to throw from the pocket. "

 

[jurb26]

http://withthefirstpick.com/2015/01/02/jameis-winston-vs-marcus-mariota/2/

 

[Quez]

Those are not isolated plays. He plays like that all the time. So even leaving out his top-notch athletic ability, he's a pretty dang good college QB. And he has top-notch athletic ability.

Nobody is disputing this.I think you mistakenly linked RB highlights instead of QB in your post, though.

You want an example of an NFL pass from a college QB look no further than the key dropped 3rd down pass by a FSU WR in the first quarter of last nights game. Deep in route, timing, throwing the man open, fitting it into a tight window, delivered with velocity and accuracy while standing tall and making it to a 2nd option from the pocket. Winston makes those throws with regularity. I've yet to see Mariota make one. This was the most impressive pass of the night and it resulted in nothing on the scoreboard.

Every play I mentioned was a passing play which demonstrated the ability to read and pick apart a defense by going to secondary options. I see you aren't even bothering to try to respond to it.

I also notice that you didn't watch the first TD pass from Mariota to Carrington in the Rose Bowl. The second one was pretty sweet, too. That set up "NFL-ready" Winston to come up with the doofiest play of the NCAA season.

And by the way: The ability to run isn't a negative for any player in the NFL.

That was probably the doofiest play of Winstons college career.

 

[Grahamburn]

http://withthefirstpick.com/2015/01/02/jameis-winston-vs-marcus-mariota/2/

We know all of those things, and wow that was a poorly written "article."

 

[jurb26]

http://withthefirstpick.com/2015/01/02/jameis-winston-vs-marcus-mariota/2/

We know all of those things, and wow that was a poorly written "article."

Many don't seem to know these things.

 

[mr roboto]

http://withthefirstpick.com/2015/01/02/jameis-winston-vs-marcus-mariota/2/

We know all of those things, and wow that was a poorly written "article."

Many don't seem to know these things.

What? That article literally regurgitated every single pro and con of both their games verbatim. It read like an 11th grade opinion paper in English 101. Nothing new, poorly written.

 

[Manster]

That article was basically what we've all been hearing, and very biased towards Winston.....What about Winston being a knucklehead? They compare Mariota to Newton, Kaep, and Vick.....What about Wilson? Why cant Mariota be like Wilson? He keeps his eyes down field. And I do understand that Wilson got drafted by a very good team and that helped him tremendously.

I'm just not buying Winston. Huge red flags with his behavior. Mariota may not be as "NFL ready" with the system he's in, but look at both of these young men as a complete package.....Mariota is miles ahead of Winston in maturity. And A LOT of being a successful NFL QB is mental.

 

[pantherclub]

That article was basically what we've all been hearing, and very biased towards Winston.....What about Winston being a knucklehead? They compare Mariota to Newton, Kaep, and Vick.....What about Wilson? Why cant Mariota be like Wilson? He keeps his eyes down field. And I do understand that Wilson got drafted by a very good team and that helped him tremendously.

I'm just not buying Winston. Huge red flags with his behavior. Mariota may not be as "NFL ready" with the system he's in, but look at both of these young men as a complete package.....Mariota is miles ahead of Winston in maturity. And A LOT of being a successful NFL QB is mental.

winston is immature off the field but in regards to football he is all business. Puts in a ton of time for film study etc. his work ethic is legendary. He just needs a handler for a couple seasons to keep him out of trouble.

 

[mr roboto]

That article was basically what we've all been hearing, and very biased towards Winston.....What about Winston being a knucklehead? They compare Mariota to Newton, Kaep, and Vick.....What about Wilson? Why cant Mariota be like Wilson? He keeps his eyes down field. And I do understand that Wilson got drafted by a very good team and that helped him tremendously.

I'm just not buying Winston. Huge red flags with his behavior. Mariota may not be as "NFL ready" with the system he's in, but look at both of these young men as a complete package.....Mariota is miles ahead of Winston in maturity. And A LOT of being a successful NFL QB is mental.

winston is immature off the field but in regards to football he is all business. Puts in a ton of time for film study etc. his work ethic is legendary. He just needs a handler for a couple seasons to keep him out of trouble.

A grown man needs a babysitter for a few years and you want to draft him top 10?

 

[Manster]

That article was basically what we've all been hearing, and very biased towards Winston.....What about Winston being a knucklehead? They compare Mariota to Newton, Kaep, and Vick.....What about Wilson? Why cant Mariota be like Wilson? He keeps his eyes down field. And I do understand that Wilson got drafted by a very good team and that helped him tremendously.

I'm just not buying Winston. Huge red flags with his behavior. Mariota may not be as "NFL ready" with the system he's in, but look at both of these young men as a complete package.....Mariota is miles ahead of Winston in maturity. And A LOT of being a successful NFL QB is mental.

winston is immature off the field but in regards to football he is all business. Puts in a ton of time for film study etc. his work ethic is legendary. He just needs a handler for a couple seasons to keep him out of trouble.

I'm not buyin this either. The guy has proven to be a bonehead off the field. I don't think you can just separate "on the field" and "off the field".....When you're being paid, the chips are down, the media's rippin you, coaches are coming at you.......How will he handle it? Physical ability will take you so far.......But maybe I'm wrong......Maybe he's more Brady and Flutie mentally, and not Jamarcus or Leaf.

 

[Zyphros]

That article was basically what we've all been hearing, and very biased towards Winston.....What about Winston being a knucklehead? They compare Mariota to Newton, Kaep, and Vick.....What about Wilson? Why cant Mariota be like Wilson? He keeps his eyes down field. And I do understand that Wilson got drafted by a very good team and that helped him tremendously.

I'm just not buying Winston. Huge red flags with his behavior. Mariota may not be as "NFL ready" with the system he's in, but look at both of these young men as a complete package.....Mariota is miles ahead of Winston in maturity. And A LOT of being a successful NFL QB is mental.

So how do you compare the off the field stuff between Winston and Manziel? Manziel is/was far worse than Winston from my perspective, and Winston has a better work ethic than Manziel. He was still a 1st round pick at 22nd so where would that put Winston? He's still a top QB option in this draft along with Mariota who is "cleaner" than both of those guys ever will be.

 

[mr roboto]

That article was basically what we've all been hearing, and very biased towards Winston.....What about Winston being a knucklehead? They compare Mariota to Newton, Kaep, and Vick.....What about Wilson? Why cant Mariota be like Wilson? He keeps his eyes down field. And I do understand that Wilson got drafted by a very good team and that helped him tremendously.

I'm just not buying Winston. Huge red flags with his behavior. Mariota may not be as "NFL ready" with the system he's in, but look at both of these young men as a complete package.....Mariota is miles ahead of Winston in maturity. And A LOT of being a successful NFL QB is mental.

So how do you compare the off the field stuff between Winston and Manziel? Manziel is/was far worse than Winston from my perspective, and Winston has a better work ethic than Manziel. He was still a 1st round pick at 22nd so where would that put Winston? He's still a top QB option in this draft along with Mariota who is "cleaner" than both of those guys ever will be.

Are you seriously suggesting that Manziel being a playboy type in college is worse than allegations of rape and sexual assault? Manziel is a top-notch rich boy D bag but I don't recall anything truly illegal being linked to him like theft or sexual assault.

 

[Manster]

That article was basically what we've all been hearing, and very biased towards Winston.....What about Winston being a knucklehead? They compare Mariota to Newton, Kaep, and Vick.....What about Wilson? Why cant Mariota be like Wilson? He keeps his eyes down field. And I do understand that Wilson got drafted by a very good team and that helped him tremendously.

I'm just not buying Winston. Huge red flags with his behavior. Mariota may not be as "NFL ready" with the system he's in, but look at both of these young men as a complete package.....Mariota is miles ahead of Winston in maturity. And A LOT of being a successful NFL QB is mental.

So how do you compare the off the field stuff between Winston and Manziel? Manziel is/was far worse than Winston from my perspective, and Winston has a better work ethic than Manziel. He was still a 1st round pick at 22nd so where would that put Winston? He's still a top QB option in this draft along with Mariota who is "cleaner" than both of those guys ever will be.

Not a fan of Manziel either. I'm soooooo glad Jerrah didn't get his way and draft him. Instead we got a guy who happens to be and All pro guard as a rookie.

I may be wrong, but I like Mariota to be a better pro......If he went to the eagles I'd be nervous as a Cowboys fan.

 

[Zyphros]

That article was basically what we've all been hearing, and very biased towards Winston.....What about Winston being a knucklehead? They compare Mariota to Newton, Kaep, and Vick.....What about Wilson? Why cant Mariota be like Wilson? He keeps his eyes down field. And I do understand that Wilson got drafted by a very good team and that helped him tremendously.

I'm just not buying Winston. Huge red flags with his behavior. Mariota may not be as "NFL ready" with the system he's in, but look at both of these young men as a complete package.....Mariota is miles ahead of Winston in maturity. And A LOT of being a successful NFL QB is mental.

So how do you compare the off the field stuff between Winston and Manziel? Manziel is/was far worse than Winston from my perspective, and Winston has a better work ethic than Manziel. He was still a 1st round pick at 22nd so where would that put Winston? He's still a top QB option in this draft along with Mariota who is "cleaner" than both of those guys ever will be.

Are you seriously suggesting that Manziel being a playboy type in college is worse than allegations of rape and sexual assault? Manziel is a top-notch rich boy D bag but I don't recall anything truly illegal being linked to him like theft or sexual assault.

Not what I was trying to suggest, but wasn't Winston's case thrown out and not charged as well? I may be remembering it wrong though and don't really know.

I was suggesting their off the field behavior in which Winston shows that he is a student of the game and Manziel is your typical party animal "rich boy D bag" as you put it who doesn't know what effort means.

 

[rustycolts]

I don't think Manziel likes crab legs as much as Winston.

 

[cstu]

That article was basically what we've all been hearing, and very biased towards Winston.....What about Winston being a knucklehead? They compare Mariota to Newton, Kaep, and Vick.....What about Wilson? Why cant Mariota be like Wilson? He keeps his eyes down field. And I do understand that Wilson got drafted by a very good team and that helped him tremendously.

I'm just not buying Winston. Huge red flags with his behavior. Mariota may not be as "NFL ready" with the system he's in, but look at both of these young men as a complete package.....Mariota is miles ahead of Winston in maturity. And A LOT of being a successful NFL QB is mental.

winston is immature off the field but in regards to football he is all business. Puts in a ton of time for film study etc. his work ethic is legendary. He just needs a handler for a couple seasons to keep him out of trouble.

I'm not buyin this either. The guy has proven to be a bonehead off the field. I don't think you can just separate "on the field" and "off the field".....When you're being paid, the chips are down, the media's rippin you, coaches are coming at you.......How will he handle it? Physical ability will take you so far.......But maybe I'm wrong......

Maybe he's more Brady and Flutie mentally, and not Jamarcus or Leaf.

Winston strikes me as a guy with a huge ego and will have trouble in the NFL. His Rose Bowl post-game showed no humility - "We were never stopped, at all."

 

[cstu]

With 103 TD/13 INT, Mariota could have thrown 5 more career INT's and he still would have had the best TD/INT ratio in history.

 

[Gandalf]

With 103 TD/13 INT, Mariota could have thrown 5 more career INT's and he still would have had the best TD/INT ratio in history.

I guess the question I have is whether this is pretty much due to the Oregon offensive system? If most of his passes are bubble screens or short passes then they are far less likely to be intercepted. Not a hater. It's a big question in my mind. Don't know how to get more comfortable with it. You aren't worried about that at all? Why?

 

[cstu]

With 103 TD/13 INT, Mariota could have thrown 5 more career INT's and he still would have had the best TD/INT ratio in history.

I guess the question I have is whether this is pretty much due to the Oregon offensive system? If most of his passes are bubble screens or short passes then they are far less likely to be intercepted. Not a hater. It's a big question in my mind. Don't know how to get more comfortable with it. You aren't worried about that at all? Why?

I don't consider him a sure thing, not by a long-shot. What I believe is that playing QB is 90% and I think he has the mental makeup as well as the physical talent to succeed in the NFL.

 

[cstu]

Weaknesses: Arm could be stronger, accuracy, identifying his second receiver, worry about his smarts and stability and overall leadership.

Spoiler

Joe Montana

 

[CalBear]

With 103 TD/13 INT, Mariota could have thrown 5 more career INT's and he still would have had the best TD/INT ratio in history.

I guess the question I have is whether this is pretty much due to the Oregon offensive system? If most of his passes are bubble screens or short passes then they are far less likely to be intercepted. Not a hater. It's a big question in my mind. Don't know how to get more comfortable with it. You aren't worried about that at all? Why?

Obviously he's a good fit for the system, and is less likely to be effective in an old-school seven-step drop system. But none of the other QBs in the Oregon system (or the many college teams which have similar systems) have done as well as Mariota. And there are pro teams which are running very similar systems, or are open to moving in that direction.

 

[Grahamburn]

The Glazers pursued Chip Kelly so they're obviously open to running a system similar to Oregon's in the NFL.

 

[mr roboto]

IMO you draft a QB who has the tools, mental makeup, measurables and success. Not based on his college system.

It's lind of sad that these rookies have to play their first season most of the time now. The college game doesn't (with rare exception) care to develop a QB for the pro game. They wanna win in college.

It used to be you take a guy with all the tools, develop him, see what he turns into before you hand him the keys. Now, a rookie gets about 6-10 games to improve. If they don't, they get the boot.

Rare is the QB who is actually 'pro ready' coming out of CFB. Very rare. You don't draft the QB based on their system in college. That's how you get Clausen and Ponder.

 

[mr roboto]

With 103 TD/13 INT, Mariota could have thrown 5 more career INT's and he still would have had the best TD/INT ratio in history.

I guess the question I have is whether this is pretty much due to the Oregon offensive system? If most of his passes are bubble screens or short passes then they are far less likely to be intercepted. Not a hater. It's a big question in my mind. Don't know how to get more comfortable with it. You aren't worried about that at all? Why?

Obviously he's a good fit for the system, and is less likely to be effective in an old-school seven-step drop system. But none of the other QBs in the Oregon system (or the many college teams which have similar systems) have done as well as Mariota. And there are pro teams which are running very similar systems, or are open to moving in that direction.

There's 1 team running an old school 7-step drop back system - Baltimore.

 

[Gandalf]

With 103 TD/13 INT, Mariota could have thrown 5 more career INT's and he still would have had the best TD/INT ratio in history.

I guess the question I have is whether this is pretty much due to the Oregon offensive system? If most of his passes are bubble screens or short passes then they are far less likely to be intercepted. Not a hater. It's a big question in my mind. Don't know how to get more comfortable with it. You aren't worried about that at all? Why?

Obviously he's a good fit for the system, and is less likely to be effective in an old-school seven-step drop system. But none of the other QBs in the Oregon system (or the many college teams which have similar systems) have done as well as Mariota. And there are pro teams which are running very similar systems, or are open to moving in that direction.

Okay far point. At the very least mariota is doing signicantly better than the prior Oregon and other QBs in similar systems. And I like ctsu's point of view regarding the mental side of QBing. I am looking forward to seeing more of him in the championship

 

[Zyphros]

IMO you draft a QB who has the tools, mental makeup, measurables and success. Not based on his college system.

It's lind of sad that these rookies have to play their first season most of the time now. The college game doesn't (with rare exception) care to develop a QB for the pro game. They wanna win in college.

It used to be you take a guy with all the tools, develop him, see what he turns into before you hand him the keys. Now, a rookie gets about 6-10 games to improve. If they don't, they get the boot.

Rare is the QB who is actually 'pro ready' coming out of CFB. Very rare. You don't draft the QB based on their system in college. That's how you get Clausen and Ponder.

Are you saying Mariota has those skills and people are holding the system against him, or that he doesn't have the skills and the system is making him look good?

I agree with you that rookies are forced into playing rather early and in all likelihood too early, but that's the way the league works now. Business's in general are looking for ready, qualified, and capable workers why should the NFL be any different?

 

[mr roboto]

IMO you draft a QB who has the tools, mental makeup, measurables and success. Not based on his college system.

It's lind of sad that these rookies have to play their first season most of the time now. The college game doesn't (with rare exception) care to develop a QB for the pro game. They wanna win in college.

It used to be you take a guy with all the tools, develop him, see what he turns into before you hand him the keys. Now, a rookie gets about 6-10 games to improve. If they don't, they get the boot.

Rare is the QB who is actually 'pro ready' coming out of CFB. Very rare. You don't draft the QB based on their system in college. That's how you get Clausen and Ponder.

Are you saying Mariota has those skills and people are holding the system against him, or that he doesn't have the skills and the system is making him look good? I agree with you that rookies are forced into playing rather early and in all likelihood too early, but that's the way the league works now. Business's in general are looking for ready, qualified, and capable workers why should the NFL be any different?

I'm saying that he has the tools. I think the 'he's a system/running/spread QB so that inflates his numbers' argument is 'true-ish' but way overblown. By every statistical measure of accuracy and decision making he's superb. Even historically so. It can't all be system. To the second comment I get what you are saying but no business expects their leader (ie QB) to be perfectly trained. Especially out of college! Have you ever hired a college kid?

He's not a Luck prospect. He's not a sure thing. He would be ahead of the entire 2014 class though if he was drafted lady year.

Winston is a surer bet from a football standpoint. But that's simply as-is baseline. IOW Winston is more ready now. But when you throw the off-field stuff in and his preoccupation with baseball and that's important. Plus Mariota's athleticism is very tempting.