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QB Philip Rivers, RET (1 Viewer)

BoltzNBrew said:
Raider Nation said:
Rivers gets picked... complains to ref.

Midseason form.
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Why don't you go troll the Raider thread. Its on page 38.
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No, Raider Nation is right. Rivers is just much more error prone than he was earlier in his career. Maybe that's a result of playing behind that line for all these years. Maybe he's just lost arm strength. For whatever reason, he's not the guy he used to be(but he's in his 30's now and anyone who said in 2007 he was "terrible" still looks like a complete idiot).

In the Charger thread it's been suggested if he gets cut next offseason that several teams would pick him up as a starter. I think that's true. But I also think it's true that almost no team in the NFL is going to pay Rivers $30mil over the next two seasons, including the Chargers. If CLE disappoints and Weeden falters maybe Rivers reunites with Norv. I definitely don't think Rivers has played behind a line as good as CLE has since Tomlinson moved on which was quite awhile ago. If he's "willing" to take a pay cut, let's be honest he'll take a pay cut no matter what happens next season, I'd like to see SD keep him at a more reasonable cap number but it wouldn't shock me if this is his last season in SD.

It should be remembered that there are NFL teams out there more than willing to hand a starting QB job to guys the coaching staff admits can't throw the ball 25 yards down field, so "terrible" is certainly on a sliding scale in this league. Rivers isn't playing to the pro-bowl level he did for 5-6 years in a row. He is terrible when measured against his past performance, but that's only because he set the bar so high for so many years. Anyone bumping this thread to pound their chest that he's terrible based on expectations before October of 2007 are just reminding us just how dim they are, and were, and will more than likely continue to be.

 
BoltBacker said:
BoltzNBrew said:
Raider Nation said:
Rivers gets picked... complains to ref.

Midseason form.
Click to expand...
Why don't you go troll the Raider thread. Its on page 38.
Click to expand...
No, Raider Nation is right. Rivers is just much more error prone than he was earlier in his career. Maybe that's a result of playing behind that line for all these years. Maybe he's just lost arm strength. For whatever reason, he's not the guy he used to be(but he's in his 30's now and anyone who said in 2007 he was "terrible" still looks like a complete idiot).

In the Charger thread it's been suggested if he gets cut next offseason that several teams would pick him up as a starter. I think that's true. But I also think it's true that almost no team in the NFL is going to pay Rivers $30mil over the next two seasons, including the Chargers. If CLE disappoints and Weeden falters maybe Rivers reunites with Norv. I definitely don't think Rivers has played behind a line as good as CLE has since Tomlinson moved on which was quite awhile ago. If he's "willing" to take a pay cut, let's be honest he'll take a pay cut no matter what happens next season, I'd like to see SD keep him at a more reasonable cap number but it wouldn't shock me if this is his last season in SD.

It should be remembered that there are NFL teams out there more than willing to hand a starting QB job to guys the coaching staff admits can't throw the ball 25 yards down field, so "terrible" is certainly on a sliding scale in this league. Rivers isn't playing to the pro-bowl level he did for 5-6 years in a row. He is terrible when measured against his past performance, but that's only because he set the bar so high for so many years. Anyone bumping this thread to pound their chest that he's terrible based on expectations before October of 2007 are just reminding us just how dim they are, and were, and will more than likely continue to be.
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A QB makes his offensive line. Too many times a franchise depends on what a QB can make happen without having a good defense, special teams, and a defensive line. I would have to look at Rivers' career as a whole with what targets hit, his defense, the running game etc., to bag on him. He can throw the ball. He produces numbers.

It's just a couple of quarters or less in a pre-season game. Dude is on a new HC. It's just a matter of Rivers working with the offense with the new scheme with the offensive line on the pre-snap. Jeebus, what do you have outside of Rivers? Whitehurst? :lol: . How many threads does that dude have for RN to bump?

 
I didn't see the game, but, according to Rotoworld:

Rivers was also sacked three times and lost a fumble on a play where LT Max Starks didn't lay a hand on Bears DE Shea McClellin. Rivers was walloped from behind and coughed it up. On the pick, Rivers tried to hit Keenan Allen on a post but Allen fell down.
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Doesn't sound like either the interception or fumble were Rivers' fault. Also doesn't sound encouraging about an improved offensive line...

 
Just Win Baby said:
I didn't see the game, but, according to Rotoworld:

Rivers was also sacked three times and lost a fumble on a play where LT Max Starks didn't lay a hand on Bears DE Shea McClellin. Rivers was walloped from behind and coughed it up. On the pick, Rivers tried to hit Keenan Allen on a post but Allen fell down.
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Doesn't sound like either the interception or fumble were Rivers' fault. Also doesn't sound encouraging about an improved offensive line...
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It's fun to pick on Rivers, but hard to blame him. For last night, at least. That O-line is atrocious. I'm not sure there is a worse collection in the league.

 
Just Win Baby said:
I didn't see the game, but, according to Rotoworld:

Rivers was also sacked three times and lost a fumble on a play where LT Max Starks didn't lay a hand on Bears DE Shea McClellin. Rivers was walloped from behind and coughed it up. On the pick, Rivers tried to hit Keenan Allen on a post but Allen fell down.
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Doesn't sound like either the interception or fumble were Rivers' fault. Also doesn't sound encouraging about an improved offensive line...
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Yep, all of those statements are true. The SD OL looked really, really bad. Like, 2011 Bears OL bad. Peppers and Melton didn't even play and it was jailbreak city. I can't quit Rivers for fantasy and am looking at him as a value this year (reliable cheap low end QB2) but the receiver injuries and that line make me wonder.

Mathews looked great and Gates looks like he lost about 20 lbs. That's all I got.

 
Rivers have any value in a 10-team league? 12? Where does he rank for redraft? Worth a late-round flyer at all?

Trying to figure out guys who are less valuable:

Flynn

Sanchez

Gabbert/henne

Locker

Weeden

Even Bradford, Manuel, Tannehill and Palmer have more upside, I think.

 
Raider Nation said:
Just Win Baby said:
I didn't see the game, but, according to Rotoworld:

Rivers was also sacked three times and lost a fumble on a play where LT Max Starks didn't lay a hand on Bears DE Shea McClellin. Rivers was walloped from behind and coughed it up. On the pick, Rivers tried to hit Keenan Allen on a post but Allen fell down.
Click to expand...
Doesn't sound like either the interception or fumble were Rivers' fault. Also doesn't sound encouraging about an improved offensive line...
Click to expand...
It's fun to pick on Rivers, but hard to blame him. For last night, at least. That O-line is atrocious. I'm not sure there is a worse collection in the league.
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What's frustrating is you'll actually read that some Charger fans think the OL has improved this year. If Peppers had been playing and Rivers had to be out there all 4 quarters... I'm not sure he's going to make it through the season.

I have to give Telesco some credit for doing the impossible. He took the worst pass blocking OL in the NFL and actually made it even worse. After starting the season with an UDFA at LT last season I wouldn't have thought that was possible. There must be someone at the top of the first round he wants badly next year.

 
Just Win Baby said:
I didn't see the game, but, according to Rotoworld:

Rivers was also sacked three times and lost a fumble on a play where LT Max Starks didn't lay a hand on Bears DE Shea McClellin. Rivers was walloped from behind and coughed it up. On the pick, Rivers tried to hit Keenan Allen on a post but Allen fell down.
Click to expand...
Doesn't sound like either the interception or fumble were Rivers' fault. Also doesn't sound encouraging about an improved offensive line...
Click to expand...
On the interception, Keenan Allen looked pretty well covered. It might have been picked even if Allen hadn't been knocked down.

Rivers said that the sack and fumble were his fault. His drop was too deep. Starks drove the DE behind where the pocket was supposed to be. If Rivers had taken the correct drop, the DE would have overrun him; but with the overly deep drop, Rivers was right in his path.

 
Crap. Rivers has been my main QB in my 2QB dynasty league for some time. This isn't the encouraging bounce back season news I was hoping for.

I'm not sure if I'm lucky or doomed. I have Rivers, VBrown, Keenan, Gates...sure they're the only OFF weapons that appear to be standing at the moment....but that's at the moment. This hole team seems to be fragile. Maybe it's in the water or that's what happens with 355 days of sun a year.

 
BoltBacker said:
What's frustrating is you'll actually read that some Charger fans think the OL has improved this year. If Peppers had been playing and Rivers had to be out there all 4 quarters... I'm not sure he's going to make it through the season.

I have to give Telesco some credit for doing the impossible. He took the worst pass blocking OL in the NFL and actually made it even worse. After starting the season with an UDFA at LT last season I wouldn't have thought that was possible. There must be someone at the top of the first round he wants badly next year.
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I think the OL is improved, but that's not saying very much. At tackle, Dunlap is better than Harris, and Fluker is better than Clary. And while Clary is a step down from Vasquez at guard, he looks better there than he did at tackle. Rinehart looks like a nice pickup.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
BoltBacker said:
What's frustrating is you'll actually read that some Charger fans think the OL has improved this year. If Peppers had been playing and Rivers had to be out there all 4 quarters... I'm not sure he's going to make it through the season.

I have to give Telesco some credit for doing the impossible. He took the worst pass blocking OL in the NFL and actually made it even worse. After starting the season with an UDFA at LT last season I wouldn't have thought that was possible. There must be someone at the top of the first round he wants badly next year.
Click to expand...
I think the OL is improved, but that's not saying very much. At tackle, Dunlap is better than Harris, and Fluker is better than Clary. And while Clary is a step down from Vasquez at guard, he looks better there than he did at tackle. Rinehart looks like a nice pickup.
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King Dunlap? I don't know this Harris, but he must be about the worst player ever.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
BoltBacker said:
What's frustrating is you'll actually read that some Charger fans think the OL has improved this year. If Peppers had been playing and Rivers had to be out there all 4 quarters... I'm not sure he's going to make it through the season.

I have to give Telesco some credit for doing the impossible. He took the worst pass blocking OL in the NFL and actually made it even worse. After starting the season with an UDFA at LT last season I wouldn't have thought that was possible. There must be someone at the top of the first round he wants badly next year.
Click to expand...
I think the OL is improved, but that's not saying very much. At tackle, Dunlap is better than Harris, and Fluker is better than Clary. And while Clary is a step down from Vasquez at guard, he looks better there than he did at tackle. Rinehart looks like a nice pickup.
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King Dunlap? I don't know this Harris, but he must be about the worst player ever.
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Yeah, I kind of thought the fact Dunlap had to play was one of the biggest reasons the PHI OL was a disaster last year and their season completely imploded. But Harris was an UDFA so maybe last year SD had the 32nd best LT in the league, and this year they have... seems to me still the 32nd best LT in the league. Which really isn't true because it's entirely possible there are backups around the league better than Dunlap.

MT, maybe this OL has the potential to be a better blocking unit but if anything I think they regressed as a pass blocking unit. Remember, Harris wasn't even penciled in as a starter at this time last year. He was a backup forced into action. With the way players are dropping in SD I can't even imagine what this group would look like if there is an injury or two by week #1.

I hope I'm not divulging too much subscriber content but I hardly think this is a well kept secret: SD was ranked dead last in the FBG OL line ranking with "D-" straight across the board. MT, where would you personally rank the SD OL this year and what grade would you give them overall, pass blocking, and run blocking?

 
I'd probably rank them in the low thirties, either #31 or #32. But even if they're #32, they're a stronger #32 than they were last year.

Dunlap has looked good in pass protection, and Fluker has been a beast when run-blocking. Unfortunately, they're both a bit one-dimensional right now. But that's better than the zero-dimensional tackles they had last year.

 
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BoltBacker said:
Long Ball Larry said:
King Dunlap? I don't know this Harris, but he must be about the worst player ever.
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Yeah, I kind of thought the fact Dunlap had to play was one of the biggest reasons the PHI OL was a disaster last year and their season completely imploded.
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Dunlap graded out pretty well at ProFootballFocus last year -- an overall grade of +6.6 (and a pass-blocking grade of +11.5). The OL on Philly who were disastrous were Dennis Kelly (-17.9) and Demetress Bell (-24.5).

Mike Harris graded out at an astounding -43.4, worst in the league (not just among starters, but worst in the league, period).

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
I'd probably rank them in the low thirties, either #31 or #32. But even if they're #32, they're a stronger #32 than they were last year.

Dunlap has looked good in pass protection, and Fluker has been a beast when run-blocking. Unfortunately, they're both a bit one-dimensional right now. But that's better than the zero-dimensional tackles they had last year.
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At least on passing down they could use Phillips/McClain to help Fluker. I hope you're right and SD is closer to #31.5 best OL than they were last year. In another thread I mentioned I wish they could have just traded their OL for the U. of Alabama so I think #32 would have been a generous ranking for them last year.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Dunlap graded out pretty well at ProFootballFocus last year -- an overall grade of +6.6 (and a pass-blocking grade of +11.5). The OL on Philly who were disastrous were Dennis Kelly (-17.9) and Demetress Bell (-24.5).
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I won't pretend to know how ProFootballFocus comes up with those numbers, but I will say nobody is going to confuse Rivers and Vick in terms of mobility.

 
He looks like a totally different QB out there tonight. Gates also looks healthy. Mathews looks much better than advertised in the Shark Pool. Houston D doesn't look as strong as advertised.

 
BassNBrew said:
Anyone still believe Rivers is better than Manning or Ben?
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I never have, I think they are all in the same tier of QB, penultimate elite tier. Perpetually QB8-12, might as well throw Romo in here.

Which I'm totally okay with, I throw a committee of these guys together every year I can. I have Rivers as my backup in more leagues than should be allowed.

 
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Radio was saying he has the lowest QBR in the 4th quarter of ANY NFL QB over the last 17 games. 7 and some change. Next lowest is Weeden at 15. That's scary bad.

 
Rivers turned back the clock today. Who'da thought especially on the road, short week, and after falling apart in the second half of last week's game.

 
just_want_2_win said:
Rivers turned back the clock today. Who'da thought especially on the road, short week, and after falling apart in the second half of last week's game.
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He was pretty much on fire all game. He should of had an even better game. Gates dropped a TD in the end zone. There were a few more drops.

The best part though, was the O line actually made some adjustments and was very, serviceable today. If he keeps getting this type of protection he will have a bounce back season.

 
Beerguzzler said:
just_want_2_win said:
Rivers turned back the clock today. Who'da thought especially on the road, short week, and after falling apart in the second half of last week's game.
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He was pretty much on fire all game. He should of had an even better game. Gates dropped a TD in the end zone. There were a few more drops.

The best part though, was the O line actually made some adjustments and was very, serviceable today. If he keeps getting this type of protection he will have a bounce back season.
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McCoy is a very good offensive coach. Getting the most he can out of his offense for sure.

 
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