This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
As a "scientist", you should know all about Einstein's definition of insanity. He's just not that good, period. At least Gabbert broke 161 yards passing in his first 4 starts....twice. Tebow did it 3 times in Denver. Weren't both of those team built around very strong defenses and running games? Bet you didn't think Wilson would be the outlier in a passing contest between those 3.
To say "he is just not that good, period" is ignorant. Here are some current NFL QB's and their first 5 starts.
Pro Tip: Your troll attempt would have been decent but you mentioned Gabbert and Tebow. Just too obvious.
You gotta love that Herm Edwards mentality of keeping it close and trying to win it in the 4th Q. It a solid recipe for dismissal.
That's not a good analysis of the situation. Is your recipe to call 1-800-quarterback and pick up and elite passer?
So I use Gabbert and Tebow, you use Flacco and Brees. Ok, I'll go with that.Flacco: started 2-2 as well, but then went 4-0 after the games you listed above, and only lost 2 more games the rest of the season, and went on to win two playoff games ON THE ROAD. He wasn't asked to do much with that defense and his running game. At the same time neither is Wilson. If, though, you think that Wilson will go 9-2 from here and into the playoffs and win two playoff road games the way he's playing, you're wrong.Brees: 2:1 TD to INT rate, and you find them comparable?! You also forgot to mention the scores of those 4 games. Don't worry, you don't have to look them up, they are...W 34-6W 24-3W 23-15W 21-14*he also had 3 more 300+ yard passing games that season. You can't compare the stats of those 4 games vs Wilson's 4 games as they are in a totally different context of winning or losing. Sure maybe my bringing up Gabbert and Tebow aren't the best examples, but what other rookie/1st year starting QBs on run heavy teams with stingy defenses can you bring up to use as a comparison over the past few years?Not Luck (220+ passing in first 3 starts), RG3 (who blows him out of the water, 200+ passing in each of first 4 starts and can actually run), Dalton (started 7-2), Cam (seriously? 370+ passing in 3 of first 4 games), Locker (hasn't finished 4 full games yet, but did pass for over 170 in each of the 3 he did), or Ponder (over 180 passing yards in each of first 6 starts). The two that I thought he had the most in common with in recent history are Gabbert and Tebow, sorry. Maybe Sanchez? Might be a good one to compare to. Oh wait, he had a winning record and also won two road playoff games.
HAHA, great one.
You just proved that you don't know how Pete and JS run the team. Hass was gone, just a matter if when, as usually happens with an aging vet and wholesale coach/FO changes. Whitehurst was brought in to see if he could play and when it was clear he couldn't be the temp guy while they built a team around the spot, they brought in TJ. Another QB on a short deal who was clearly a temporary stand in to help teach the new OC's offense. Once again though, just a short term tackling dummy while money and picks were spent building the D and OL (which injuries has hindered). Then in year three, with people slinging nonsense about the hotseat and his QB failures, they bring in their regime's real QB inFlynn and Wilson. Never were CW or TJ ever going to play in year three. TJ was kept to help train the new guys and as a backup if one of them couldn't perform well enough. As soon as it was clear that both could do it, TJ's gone. All exactly according to plan. So you can keep talking about Carrol's QB carousel, but you're just repeating nonsense that talking heads keep saying without any inside perspective. None of those other QBs matter or were intended to still be on the team this season. They were there to absorb punishment while they rebuilt one of the least talented teams in the league.
So what if Flynn isn't? Wilson proved himself more capable and won the job. What's that say about Flynn?
I am not sure Wilson has proved himself more capable. I find it hard to believe all the people who support Wilson based upon pre-season. He had an amazing pre-season. But it is just that per-season. The defenses are very vanilla in pre-season and easy to read. The same stats from pre-season that were used to justify starting Wilson are now the same stats that should be used to evaluate his performance. In those stats he is last or next to last in almost every stat. I think he can still be the Quarterback of the future but if he is this strong character guy that can handle the presures of the NFL than he should be able to handle going into the backup role and learning. It is time to see if Flynn can make this team better you will never know what he can do until you put him in the game. Seattle leadership must have seen something in him or they wouldn't have signed him. Let's find out if he can be better than the 32nd best Quarterback in the NFL.
I can't believe that people believe that Wilson was picked as the starter based only on the preseason games. Or rather, that it was the largest factor. The coaching staff saw all three players in the hunt for the job a ton more than fans did. They saw them every day in practice. They saw how the rest of the team responded to them.
I'm not talking about the preseason games. I'm talking the entire time from rookie camp through the last week if preseason. What a majority of people saw from him was the games, but the coaches saw far, far more if the two guys and determined Wilson was better. If Flynn didn't win the job then what does that say about him?
I didn't have to click it when I saw who was linking. If a Seahawk eats crow, is that like cannibalism? 
The reasons that Pete Carrol gave for starting Wilson was he played sooo well that he had to start Wilson. This wasn't a neccessarily a knock on Flynn it was a vote of confidence in Wilson because Wilson forced his hand with great training camp and pre-season performances. But with that logic he isn't doing it in the regular season. But the two times Flynn has had to preform in the regular season he has played great. Even if Flynn is average he will be better than last in the league and Seattle could be 4-0 with average perfomances. It's about winning now they can't wait the rest of the team is too good.
Yeah, that's exactly what Carroll did at USC.Uh...
I guess that's the part I just don't understand. Their "plan" was to bring in 2 QBs the same year? I call BS on that. Their "plan" was for Flynn to be their QB this year, and they drafted Wilson to be their QB of the future. His preseason success combined with Flynn's elbow issues forced them to change that "plan". I also love how you listed two QBs of the "regime's real QB", so when they make the change, you can still say that it's all going "according to plan".
Their plan was to hold a QB competition. They never once said Flynn will be the starter....Not sure why people have a hard time understanding that.
I doubt they planned on taking two, but the plan was to install THE qb in year 3. Turns out someone that Schneider was available at a value slot so they took him and let him compete for the job instead of handing to Flynn. It's not inflexible. You can love whatever you want. Any QB switch midsession is an admission of error so no, switching is not "according to plan". As for the elbow, I never heard a peep about it until a day or two after Wilson was named starter for week 3 preseason game.
If Flynn isn't then Flynn isn't. I'm just saying Pete Carroll would be foolish to have his pride be the reason for him not putting his best team on the field if he thinks Flynn helps the team win right now more than Russel does. And I don't think that the Seahawks can have a lengthy playoff run if Russell continues to play the way he is currently.
Flynn is not good. I don't understand why people think he's GOD. He's really bad. There is a reason he didn't get much money on the open market.
Yeah, not many teams with huge QB needs and 4 capable starting QBs in the draft a few months away, two of which were thought of as top 2-3 picks even then and also thought of as day 1 starters.It's all supply and demand. I guess scientists don't fully understand economics, though. Pro tip: there are a lot of economics at play in the NFL.Edit - understand that I'm not saying that Flynn is definitely the answer, what I am saying is that Wilson isn't the answer right now (especially if you're going to use him the exact same way as you were using the last guy where you went 7-9).
I'm not sure we've seen how bad/good he can be, but it is concerning that Philbin, who probably knew him best, ended up passing on him. However, I don't know if that was a front office choice or his.'ImTheScientist said:
no one is saying flynn is great. no one is saying flynn is good either. i think we are all in agreement that flynn and wilsons production will be somewhat similar. wilson is not getting it done though. there is no reason seattle should not at least see what they have in flynn. its very likely flynn will be a better fit for that offense since they are asking so little of the position.'ImTheScientist said:
Why would you say "flynn will be a better fit"? What evidence do you have? The evidence that he lost the job to be the starting QB for the Seahawks? Wilson is actually a better fit for what they are looking for. They want 3 things from their QB.... mobility, big arm, and someone that "tilts the field"...a leader. Anyone calling for flynn a)either has a flynn jersey b)hasn't followed the seahawks c)all of the above
i don't know weather or not flynn will outplay wilson. because of wilsons poor play so far, there is no reason not to find out. that is what i said.
skelton beat out kolb. last year, mcnabb beat out ponder, orton beat out tebow, henne beat out matt moore. all of those turned out to be wrong. the same COULD happen between wilson and flynn.
uh no. you said "this is what seattle wants" and then instead of saying what seattle wants, you said what wilson happens to be. seattle is a ball control, win on defense team. those teams generally want game managers that won't turn the ball over, like SF with alex smith, for example. seattle even said they don't see wilson as a scrambling QB. im sure thats just coach speak but that clearly does not suggest that they specifically wanted a QB that can run.
Seattle Seahawks offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell said the team does not see QB Russell Wilson as a running quarterback but is fine if Wilson moves around to get a pass off. "We're not saying he's a running quarterback,"Bevell said. "That's really not what we're trying to do. Obviously it's a long season, and he's going to take his hits and stuff. But we're not really trying to design the thing for him to run. What's probably been best about him is when he's moved, he moved with merit. And then when he's moved in the passing game, he's moved to throw down the field and make explosive plays. That's what we need to continue to do."Sorry...but Bevell doesn't draft. JS/PC do.http://www.seahawks.com/news/articles/article-1/When-it-comes-to-QBs-never-ever-panic/dbaae40a-3637-445e-b455-b5b1b75e92d8
Thanks for playing....you lose. If you lived in Seattle or listened to local radio you would have heard JS/PC talking about the QB position.
I would have thought the only people "losing" were the ones who followed your advice in selecting Wilson for their fantasy teams.
reminds me of thisso we have conflicting quotes and somehow that means your quote wins out? sorry, i was not aware all ties differ to you. ok, best out of 3 then...
It undermines everything you've done up until this point at that position and in the building of the team's self image. Wilson isn't the main problem with the passing offense (he's putting the ball where he's supposed to). He won the competition (which wasn't just preseaon) and Flynn's role is the backup. It would be completely reactionary to make a change at this point.I've got a couple questions myself now:
thanks.
i dont think this is very significant. if a qb isn't doing well, fans normally shift their support towards the backup. im looking at some KC boards right now and many are in favor of replacing cassel with quinn even though quinn has been a bust thus far. as far as image goes, flynn going 2-1 looks a lot better than wilson going 1-1 or 2-2. my point here is that wins far outweigh "the coaches admitting they were wrong" as far as image goes and on top of that, i don't think team image matters very much to coaches.
they are not going to make excuses because of their high competition so far. 2-2 vs the Rams, AZ, Dallas and GB looks the same as 2-2 vs the colts, browns, jags and panthers. i think they expect to be a playoff team, so i guess that means 3-1 at this point. so far, they are behind pace. only by a game but they "should" be 1-3 and wilson is not creating any reason to believe they will improve beyond an 8-8 pace.
no and i dont think anyone is crediting wilson for their wins either.
SELF image... as in identity... not what the media or fans think. Self image/Identity is HUGE to a team/coaches. If Wilson was really struggling with reads/throws/decisions (which I don't believe he is, from watching the games) then it wouldn't be detrimental to the team to throw Flynn in there and see what he can do. However, since Russell is pretty much doing is asked of him and putting the ball where it should be (for the most part) and is in control of the team/offense/huddle, the move would be unnecessarily hasty at this point and a lot of guys on the team would be like "WTF?!". Though I think RW himself would handle it with poise and class.
Teams do it all the time with no problem. Denver did it last year and made the playoffs. If players can't handle being benched, then they should quit football and go move back in with their parents.
While play calling and WR play are playing into the problem, you're giving way too much credit to Wilson in insinuating he's some ultra accurate passer making great decisions. I'll tell you what, after listening to Sidney Rice and some of the defensive player's comments after the last game, it was pretty obvious the "undermining" has already begun. They are going to either open up the passing game, put in Flynn, or both before Mutiny on the Bounty.
ok, i see. in that case, what does the QB have to do with their identity? their identity is defense and rushing. the QB is kind of an afterthought if we are talking about team identity.
i dont disagree with that. i dont think flynn will or should start this week, but i think it will and should happen soon. i'd guess after NE in week 6. I could see a semi shoot-out which exposes wilson in the passing game. NE is good against the run and belichick is smart enough to take the game out of lynch's hands. they go 1-1 and then get crushed by NE at which point, flynn gets his chance.i dont see any improvement with wilson. i think that will continue and if it does, i cant see him holding onto his job for more than 3 weeks. if wilson starts to play like he did in the preseason, that would immediately change my opinion. but again, i don't think that will happen based on what i've seen so far.
the present isn't bleak. it's only semi-bleak because of poor qb play. they have a top defense, a great run game and are a playoff bubble team. if this was the browns you were talking about, then i'd agree "keep weeden in" but the seahawks are much better than that. some were saying the seahawks could win their division when wilson was showing his stuff in the preseason. you know they don't have to cut wilson, right? benching wilson doesn't mean they are giving up on him long term.
You're right, he's hasn't been money. That first INT was slightly behind the WR... but there's no way that should ever be an INT. Apparently Baldwin was wide open underneath on the McCoy slip INT too. There is certainly room for improvement.I don't see why the players would be backing Flynn... it's not like he's tearing it up in practice with his sore elbow.
It's starting to fall apart on the Russell Wilson bandwagon. Rebuttals are now just emoticons. I understand how it can be more difficult by the day to try and defend this bum.
Future is bleak for Seattle if this guy is the future. Nothing worse than being a yearly non-contender for the SB.
Im sure there is always one person who would think its his fault. I have heard players saying "the stupid penalties" .... The situation is very much like Baltimore in the day when you had a good defense and a bad offense. Defense begins to resent the offense. If you look back on the previous 2 years under Carroll he has been VERY conservative with the offense to start the season. Hass, Tjax, and now Wilson all have VERY similar stats through their first 4 games.
I thought they would be 2-2 or 1-3 to start the year. They are still a very young team with a difficult schedule to start the year. The way they reached the 2-2 was not as I expected.
