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QB Russell Wilson, NYG (4 Viewers)

Sorry...I don't see where my question was really addressed. Was there a conversation between them where O'Brein told him to either participate fully or move on? Or to ask another way, had Wilson chosen to commit fully to football, is it believed that O'Brein would have accepted him with open arms or is it believed Wilson would have still been cut?
If by participate fully you mean not play spring and summer baseball, then, yes, TOB may have asked him to do that, but IMO only because he knew he would get the answer he wanted. I believe TOB would have pulled Wilson's scholarship one way or another, because he preferred Glennon.

TOB allowed Wilson to play spring and summer baseball in 2009 and 2010 and started Wilson at QB ahead of Glennon in those seasons. If he then demanded that Wilson not play spring and summer baseball in 2011 in order to have a chance to play QB in the fall, do you think that is reasonable? Particularly when TOB had promised him previously that he would not do that?

 
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Just Win Baby said:
The Commish said:
Sorry...I don't see where my question was really addressed. Was there a conversation between them where O'Brein told him to either participate fully or move on? Or to ask another way, had Wilson chosen to commit fully to football, is it believed that O'Brein would have accepted him with open arms or is it believed Wilson would have still been cut?
If by participate fully you mean not play spring and summer baseball, then, yes, TOB may have asked him to do that, but IMO only because he knew he would get the answer he wanted. I believe TOB would have pulled Wilson's scholarship one way or another, because he preferred Glennon.

TOB allowed Wilson to play spring and summer baseball in 2009 and 2010 and started Wilson at QB ahead of Glennon in those seasons. If he then demanded that Wilson not play spring and summer baseball in 2011 in order to have a chance to play QB in the fall, do you think that is reasonable? Particularly when TOB had promised him previously that he would not do that?
You're going places I really have no interest to go because I wouldn't have handled it the way O'Brein did to be in those situations. If I'm the coach and I prefer X over Y, X is starting. I don't need an excuse to start someone I think is better suited for the job. I was just asking if there was a conversation between the two and if O'Brein gave him the ultimatum or not. Sounds like you don't know, which is fine. I was just wondering. I've always maintained they both had a hand in the decision. This information doesn't really change that opinion.

 
Rotoworld:

Russell Wilson - QB - Seahawks

The Seahawks and Russell Wilson are "10s of millions" apart in contract talks, according to Danny O'Neil of ESPN 710 Seattle.

He's seeking a deal in the $120 million range while Seattle has reportedly offered a four-year extension worth close to $80 million. The Seahawks are offering Andy Dalton money but Wilson wants to be paid like Aaron Rodgers. Wilson has previously used his baseball contract with the Texas Rangers as leverage in negotiations. Wilson is too good a player for the Seahawks to risk losing. Even if they're far apart now, the two sides should come to an agreement sooner or later.

Source: ESPN 710

May 8 - 9:09 AM
 
The arithmetic in the complex equation of Russell Wilson's next contract might boil down to a single question: Are the Seattle Seahawks willing to reward a player, even one as successful as Wilson has been, with a raise of roughly 20 times what he has been making in three years as their starting quarterback?

Certainly there are other issues at play in what has been anything but a smooth negotiation, but, at its core, the salient issue might be exactly this. This is not a situation where Wilson was a big-money bonus baby, or even a second-round pick. This isn't an already fairly handsomely compensated former high pick, like Matt Ryan or Matthew Stafford or Joe Flacco, going from $8 million or $13 million or $15 million up to the $18 million-$20 million range. This is a young man who wasn't selected until 75th overall, who has played exemplary football but has certainly been aided by a stout running game and historically significant defense. He plays on a team loaded with guys already among the highest paid in the NFL at their positions. And he is scheduled to make just $1.5 million in 2015 and $3 million total over the four years of his rookie deal. Now he could quite logically argue that he merits being paid in the range of $20 million a year with the Flaccos and Ryans.

Taking what had been the best bargain in all of pro sports the past three years -- maybe in the history of the NFL -- averaging just $750,000 a year and paying him $20 million a season with, say, $80 million guaranteed, would be a huge pill for anyone to swallow. Other Seahawks stars like Bobby Wagner still need new deals and the team just tore upMarshawn Lynch's deal again a few weeks back. You just don't see that happen very often, a leap of that magnitude, for any player. It's one of many elements that make Wilson something of an anomaly and what makes the intricacies of this negotiation so compelling to watch unfold. There isn't a whole lot of precedent for a case quite like this, and the lack of any momentum to this point has been telling.

With the draft behind us, minicamps creeping up and the start of training camp a little more than two months off, the difficultly of swallowing a $19 million-a-year raise, as much as anything else, might best explain where we sit. What I know is the Seahawks' initial offer looked very much like the sort of band-aid bridge contracts that went to Andy Dalton andColin Kaepernick, according to sources, with signing bonuses more in line with the $11 million Seattle handed out recently to Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas, and a pay-as-you-go structure like the lesser Dalton/Kaepernick deals. The average per year is nowhere close to the range of the top quarterbacks in the NFL, and with Ben Roethlisberger recently joining that club and Andrew Luck and Cam Newton poised to do the same in the next 12 months, I would be absolutely shocked if Wilson did any deal that wouldn't put him among the best in the game.

As we play this forward, there isn't any reason to believe either side will significantly alter its evaluation of the situation to the degree necessary to strike a deal -- nothing is going to happen between now and training camp to alter the landscape -- and the only way to compile more empirical evidence is for Wilson to play more games. That brings us back to what I have written before, which is Wilson playing out his rookie contract is quite possibly the most likely outcome given the state of these negotiations. In fact, I'm becoming increasingly convinced that short of owner Paul Allen inserting himself into the process and issuing a mandate to get this done this summer, well, this will linger into 2016.

Given the diametric differences between the sides in projecting Wilson's value, I'm not sure how much impact a counteroffer would make. The gulf is that extreme. And, with the kind of guaranteed money -- fully guaranteed money -- it would require to wrap this deal up soon, short of Allen doing an about face for the organization, it's difficult to imagine it being bridged in the near term.

So the question becomes, at what point would Wilson, focusing on the season ahead and Seattle's arduous task to shrug off a heartbreaking Super Bowl loss and get back to that game, just opt to shut down talks entirely? Because knowing him, and how he thinks and operates, that day might come sooner than some would expect. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if it comes sometime in July rather than September. It's hard to picture this being an open topic of discussion and something Wilson would entertain by the start of camp.

The moment Wilson walks back on a field for full practice he begins to incur injury risk. And, as someone inherently wired to gamble on himself, if Seattle isn't inclined to pay what his representatives believe is his market value after three full seasons and what he has accomplished to this point, I see him throwing himself into his contract year and cutting off talks. Avoid the distraction. Focus on the task at hand. And, should we reach that point, the question becomes, when does Wilson continue the discussions in 2016? Perhaps not at all. That wouldn't surprise me, either.

An exclusive-rights franchise tag could be worth upwards of $25 million for the 2016 season alone, and tagging him twice now is possibly pushing $55 million for two years. And if he played that out, he could potentially hit free agency before age 30, he would have finally made some real NFL money over two seasons, and, if he stays on anything close to the career arc he has been on, you're looking at potentially the most coveted free agent in NFL history. What's that going to be worth in 2017 NFL dollars, especially with the cap continuing to soar between now and then? Rather than go through another round of back-and-forth with the Seahawks, perhaps the simplest solution -- barring Allen simply making Wilson a $20 million man -- might be to let Seattle make a choice: Meet Wilson's pre-existing price (and that might soar depending on his production and any other quarterback deals that get done this year), franchise him, or trade him.

If I am the NFLPA, I would love to see that scenario unfold. Salaries rise the most when the very best players get to the market in their prime -- as evidence I present the example of Suh, Ndamukong shattering J.J. Watt's salary on the open market -- and the overwhelming reality is that healthy top quarterbacks simply never are out there for open bidding. In baseball, top pitchers routinely get to that stage, and earning records often follow. With Wilson's agent, Mark Rodgers, so steeped in that culture, I have a hard time seeing him relent here, regardless of the fact the NFL has silly and draconian funding stipulations (the fact that Allen, one of the richest people on the planet, would have to put $80 million in escrow up front if he issued a contract with that much money fully guaranteed isn't going to elicit a lot of tears in the agent community).

Say what you want about Rodgers, and the fact that he has worked primarily in baseball -- we all know how different baseball and football contracts are in terms of truly guaranteed money -- but he hasn't backed down with top clients in the past, he has done massive deals before and he isn't some rube who is going to flinch or blink just because he hasn't ever completed an NFL blockbuster deal. I'm sure he makes an easy target for many in the football media establishment, with Rodgers a perceived "outsider" and all, but no there might be no agent in the game with a more profound relationship with his client than Rodgers with Wilson, and I wouldn't mistake his lack of football dealings with naivety. I don't foresee client or agent being pushed around.

Just because it is outside Wilson's nature for him to consider a holdout or even a nominal transgression like skipping some OTAs, I wouldn't mistake that for weakness. Being the ultimate team player doesn't require that player to sign a contract he is not perfectly comfortable with. Playing out his rookie contract -- and giving the Seahawks a fourth straight year of ridiculous value in the meantime -- without complaint or incident would be a gift to the team in and of itself.

Sure, getting this deal done now would take Seattle being willing to set a precedent with guaranteed money that its peers around the NFL would hate, and I can certainly understand them balking. But after playing for peanuts for three years that's hardly Wilson's problem. Getting him signed long-term right now is either essential or it is not. He is either the most important asset to the franchise or another malleable cog in a larger machine.

That decision, and the corresponding financial equation, doesn't have to be made now, or this summer, or even this year. But Wilson's development doesn't indicate that price will be coming down at all, and time will tell if there is a solution to this riddle that includes increasing the quarterback's annual compensation 20 fold.

 
Rotoworld:

Bleacher Report's Jason Cole reports it's "highly unlikely" the Seahawks will extend contract-year QB Russell Wilson's deal this year.

Wilson is said to be seeking in excess of $20 million annually on a five-year extension. Per Cole, the Seahawks "have no desire to get anywhere close to that" and are willing to let him play out the final year of his rookie contract and then use the franchise tag back-to-back years through 2017. That would net Wilson around $45-48 million over the next three years. Recent reports have suggested the two sides are "10s of millions" apart in contract talks. Cole's report seconds that.

Source: Bleacher Report
May 15 - 12:09 PM
 
This situation is why what the Vikings did to get Bridgewater was so smart. In his 5th year they'll have him under contract for ~$10M and then can franchise him for the 6th year at ~$18M. That's 6 years for ~$35M (~$6M a year) before they have to negotiate a long-term deal (he'll want to negotiate a long-term deal before that to get more than $10M in his 5th year).

The move cost the Vikings their 4th round pick (#108) to move up 8 spots.

 
Greg Bell (who I respect much more when it comes to Seahawk info compared to national guys) says all the negative news you're hearing is much ado about nothing. He's still saying the deal will happen and they are working on it. We'll see.

 
Hooper31 said:
Greg Bell (who I respect much more when it comes to Seahawk info compared to national guys) says all the negative news you're hearing is much ado about nothing. He's still saying the deal will happen and they are working on it. We'll see.
Of course. They'll get a deal done.

 
Of course it does. They changed their headline as soon as they realized they were being idiots.
Exactly, they changed the story after the reason came out.

 
I love Russel Wilson - helped win me my league last year, but he isn't Aaron Rodgers good - yet.

And I will be targeting Wilson again this year in my draft.

 
The Seahawks hold all the cards. Russell's only leverage is to be a malcontent which he won't do. Would be surprised if he doesn't get some deal done before season starts.

 
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The Seahawks hold all the cards. Russell's only leverage is to be a malcontent which he won't do. Would be surprised if he doesn't get some deal done before season starts.
One person says Wilson holds all the leverage, now you say it's the team. I agree I don't see him being a malcontent and wants to be paid the most may be a bargaining position too. In contract talks a lot of

I want to be paid as the highest NFL player as well. Its not going to happen and I <3 Russell.
That is a very broad definition. Does that mean highest contract? Most guaranteed money? Highest paid for the first year of his contract?

Give him a $200 million contract a la Joe Flacco and make it so the last years will never be seen.
Exactly, the most guaranteed may be what he's after and the team wants to have as small a cap hit as possible.

 
The Seahawks hold all the cards. Russell's only leverage is to be a malcontent which he won't do. Would be surprised if he doesn't get some deal done before season starts.
No. He's better than any other QB they have access to. If they want to win, they need him. This team has zero Super Bowls without Wilson.

 
Let's look at this realistically. Both the Seahawk and Wilson have a lot of leverage here. He wants to win, they want to win. I don't really think ego is going to come into this at all. This isn't Andy Dalton or even RG3, this is Russell Wilson, Super Bowl champions QB, aged 25. And while I like to poke at the Seahawks fans and say he's a game manager, it's obvious that his attempts are limited by scheme and usage, not out of some need to protect him. It's by choice, not by necessity. This isn't Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson, and everyone knows it.

He's going to remain a Hawk. All parties want it. All parties understand he's in a position to be paid at the very top of the NFL pay scale. He might take it in the shorts a little bit during the first year so the team can keep a guy or two, but he's getting his money. All this talk of Hawks hold ALL the leverage, or Wilson holds ALL the leverage is just preseason fluff. We are bored. We need football.

 
The Seahawks hold all the cards. Russell's only leverage is to be a malcontent which he won't do. Would be surprised if he doesn't get some deal done before season starts.
No. He's better than any other QB they have access to. If they want to win, they need him. This team has zero Super Bowls without Wilson.
That is true but what can he do? Hawks can let him play out this year then franchise him twice is my understanding. He could only try and make them sign him by holding out or causing trouble with the media and other teammates which I don't see him doing. He would be costing himself 17-20 million this year which he can't get back by not signing some sort of a deal this year.

 
The Seahawks hold all the cards. Russell's only leverage is to be a malcontent which he won't do. Would be surprised if he doesn't get some deal done before season starts.
No. He's better than any other QB they have access to. If they want to win, they need him. This team has zero Super Bowls without Wilson.
That is true but what can he do? Hawks can let him play out this year then franchise him twice is my understanding. He could only try and make them sign him by holding out or causing trouble with the media and other teammates which I don't see him doing.He would be costing himself 17-20 million this year which he can't get back by not signing some sort of a deal this year.
So you don't think he'd retaliate if they starting treating him like ####?

 
The Seahawks hold all the cards. Russell's only leverage is to be a malcontent which he won't do. Would be surprised if he doesn't get some deal done before season starts.
No. He's better than any other QB they have access to. If they want to win, they need him. This team has zero Super Bowls without Wilson.
That is true but what can he do? Hawks can let him play out this year then franchise him twice is my understanding. He could only try and make them sign him by holding out or causing trouble with the media and other teammates which I don't see him doing.He would be costing himself 17-20 million this year which he can't get back by not signing some sort of a deal this year.
So you don't think he'd retaliate if they starting treating him like ####?
I guess that depends what treating him like #### is. It would have to be amazingly bad for him to go public and start complaining or doing anything that could be perceived as going against the team IMO. Wilson has built up a strong persona as all about the team type. Pretty over the top about it, more than any other player I can really think of.

I think about the worst thing he would do would start leaking offers to the public through the Schefter types if the deals were crazy low to garner public support.

 
I agree. I think getting paid is just a tad more important than preserving his all around team guy rep. Heck if he wants that rep he can just sign for 5M or something. No problem. But I read he wants to be the highest paid player in the NFL. I think Seahawks fans greatly overestimate his need for their approval.

I think this is all a moot point anyway. This will get done.

 
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I agree. I think getting paid is just a tad more important than preserving his all around team guy rep. Heck if he wants that rep he can just sign for 5M or something. No problem. But I read he wants to be the highest paid player in the NFL. I think Seahawks fans greatly overestimate his need for their approval.

I think this is all a moot point anyway. This will get done.
Agreed it will get done and before this season. The bottom line is he leaves way too much money he can never get back if he doesn't redo the deal this year. All the back and forth is just negotiation to squeeze out a couple of extra million IMO.

Fans all know that and no one really cares about this because they trust Wilson and the Hawks to be pros about the process and not get crazy. If he plays the last year and the Hawks franchise tag him then things may get interesting but that's so far down the line.

 
Rotoworld:

PFT's Mike Florio's "current prediction" is that contract-year QB Russell Wilson won't be with the Seahawks in 2016.

Bold. It's only a prediction, but Florio is in the know and has plenty of sources. The two sides do seem to be pretty far apart on Wilson's value. The Seahawks are offering Wilson a deal in the Cam Newton range, while Wilson wants to be the league's highest-paid player. Florio thinks the Seahawks will use the non-exclusive franchise tag on Wilson and another team signs him to an offer sheet the Seahawks are unwilling to match. When push comes to shove, it's hard to see the Seahawks truly letting their franchise quarterback walk out the door.

Source: Profootballtalk on NBC Sports
Jun 26 - 12:26 PM
 
Rotoworld:

PFT's Mike Florio's "current prediction" is that contract-year QB Russell Wilson won't be with the Seahawks in 2016.

Bold. It's only a prediction, but Florio is in the know and has plenty of sources. The two sides do seem to be pretty far apart on Wilson's value. The Seahawks are offering Wilson a deal in the Cam Newton range, while Wilson wants to be the league's highest-paid player. Florio thinks the Seahawks will use the non-exclusive franchise tag on Wilson and another team signs him to an offer sheet the Seahawks are unwilling to match. When push comes to shove, it's hard to see the Seahawks truly letting their franchise quarterback walk out the door.

Source: Profootballtalk on NBC Sports
Jun 26 - 12:26 PM
I'm waiting for the point where 2/3rds of this thread realize they have inadvertently sided with Florio and this thread turns to dust.

 
Rotoworld:

PFT's Mike Florio's "current prediction" is that contract-year QB Russell Wilson won't be with the Seahawks in 2016.

Bold. It's only a prediction, but Florio is in the know and has plenty of sources. The two sides do seem to be pretty far apart on Wilson's value. The Seahawks are offering Wilson a deal in the Cam Newton range, while Wilson wants to be the league's highest-paid player. Florio thinks the Seahawks will use the non-exclusive franchise tag on Wilson and another team signs him to an offer sheet the Seahawks are unwilling to match. When push comes to shove, it's hard to see the Seahawks truly letting their franchise quarterback walk out the door.

Source: Profootballtalk on NBC Sports
Jun 26 - 12:26 PM
Florio, the NFL gossip columnist. Oh God.

 
Florio = click bait
Complete tool. One of my biggest pet peaves are editorialists that like to act like newsmen attempting to blur the line.

Kills me that ESPN has assigned Terry Blount as their Seattle beat writer. He does a lot of the same thing. Actually, he's the guy attempting to fan the controversy flames more than anyone else. At least half of the "reports" about a potential Wilson contract snag is pure speculation from Blount that just gets retweeted or recycled.

When I see anything like this...

"Reports of bad blood in the Wilson negotiations..." its nearly a lock that it started with Blount.

 
Hooper31 said:
Sabertooth said:
Florio = click bait
Complete tool. One of my biggest pet peaves are editorialists that like to act like newsmen attempting to blur the line.

Kills me that ESPN has assigned Terry Blount as their Seattle beat writer. He does a lot of the same thing. Actually, he's the guy attempting to fan the controversy flames more than anyone else. At least half of the "reports" about a potential Wilson contract snag is pure speculation from Blount that just gets retweeted or recycled.

When I see anything like this...

"Reports of bad blood in the Wilson negotiations..." its nearly a lock that it started with Blount.
Of more interest to me is if Wilson is signed long term (I'm not assuming he won't), A - how much will it take (is it safe to say $20 million plus per year a floor, and he doesn't sound like someone inclined to extend a hometown discount?) and B - they have leveraged the fact that he has been such a ridiculously good value, arguably the best in the NFL the past two years, will they be able to keep the band together (they signed Sherman, Thomas, Chancellor, Wright, Lynch to extensions, Wagner may be next in line, I assume Jimmy Graham is at or near the top in TE salaries, Bennett is complaining, sounds like Irvin is gone in 2016), will they be able to keep the core of the roster intact in a few years if they make Wilson one of the highest paid QBs in the league?

In your opinion, does he deserve an Aaron Rodgers-type contract, and do you think he will get that? Advocates point to his sterling W-L and OT records, and clutch fourth quarter game winning drive numbers, detractors (not me) point out that it is as much a fallacy in a team sport to assume QBs "win" games by themselves as that they "lose" games by themselves, and he has been greatly assisted by one of the best defenses in league history (best secondary I've ever seen, I'd still take the Super Bowl Shuffle Bears and Steel Curtain in their prime overall) and one of if not the best run games in the league currently.

 
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Russell Wilson accounted for 31% of Seattle's rushing yards last year. He is a major reason why they have one of the best run games in the league currently.

It should go without saying that Wilson and Lynch both benefit by the other's presence, but some want to act like Wilson solely benefits from Lynch's presence and not the other way around.

 
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Hooper31 said:
Sabertooth said:
Florio = click bait
Complete tool. One of my biggest pet peaves are editorialists that like to act like newsmen attempting to blur the line.

Kills me that ESPN has assigned Terry Blount as their Seattle beat writer. He does a lot of the same thing. Actually, he's the guy attempting to fan the controversy flames more than anyone else. At least half of the "reports" about a potential Wilson contract snag is pure speculation from Blount that just gets retweeted or recycled.

When I see anything like this...

"Reports of bad blood in the Wilson negotiations..." its nearly a lock that it started with Blount.
Yup. Here's Florio's latest

His next article will be "Wilson Could Get Attacked By Sharks".

 
Rotoworld:

In an interview at his annual passing academy, Russell Wilson said he wants to be with the Seahawks a "really, really long time."

While that may be true, Wilson also reportedly wants to become the highest-paid player in the league. To this point, the Seahawks have seemed hesitant to match the request, though that could certainly change as a potential future without a top-five quarterback comes into sharper focus. Wilson is scheduled to make $1.542 million in the final year of his rookie deal.

Source: Madison.com
Jun 28 - 4:22 PM
 

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