Question for BGP... (1 Viewer)

[Evilgrin 72]

When your SB data etc... is posted next year, are you going to acknowledge the Colts as AFC champions, even though the referees "influenced the result" of yesterday's game by calling a bogus PI penalty on Ellis Hobbs, but allowing the Colts secondary to mug Caldwell in the end zone without a flag later in the game? Both of these calls/non-calls were more egregious than the disputed OPI/holding calls in the Super Bowl last year, and they happened in a game decided by 4 points rather than 11.

This is not a shot at you, BGP, I'm seriously wondering if you're going to apply the same rules to all the teams in your statistical analysis, or whether they only apply to last year's SB for some reason.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

A: No.

He simply hates the Steelers.

Nothing he says about them has anything to do with anything other then that.

 

[wadegarrett]

By posting this you've acknowledged BGP is in your head.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

By posting this you've acknowledged BGP is in your head.

And my sig ! I admit wholeheartedly that I am fascinated by his takes.

 

[wadegarrett]

By posting this you've acknowledged BGP is in your head.

And my sig ! I admit wholeheartedly that I am fascinated by his takes.

Alright then. Let him have it.

 

[kevjones22]

He makes legit points

 

[Evilgrin 72]

By posting this you've acknowledged BGP is in your head.

And my sig ! I admit wholeheartedly that I am fascinated by his takes.

Alright then. Let him have it.

I'm honestly not looking to flame the guy here, not at all. Recently, he has posted many times regarding the Super Bowl from last year and the state of the refereeing in the NFL. He claims this has nothing to do with the Steelers, simply his disgust with the poor officiating in the NFL. As the two calls/non-calls I referenced yesterday were easily worse than the Locklear hold or Jackson push-off, I would imagine he would have to omit the Colts from his list of AFC champs or include the Patriots as * champs, the same way he did with Seattle/Pittsburgh this year.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

He makes legit points

That's cool. Do you think the "faceguarding" call on Ellis Hobbs was a good call yesterday, or the non-call in the end zone on Caldwell?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Legit points for a Steelers hater circle jerk.

But there is nothing wrong with hating a team in the NFL.

But it does make talking about legtimate NFL and football topics problematic.

 

[Pat Patriot]

When your SB data etc... is posted next year, are you going to acknowledge the Colts as AFC champions, even though the referees "influenced the result" of yesterday's game by calling a bogus PI penalty on Ellis Hobbs, but allowing the Colts secondary to mug Caldwell in the end zone without a flag later in the game? Both of these calls/non-calls were more egregious than the disputed OPI/holding calls in the Super Bowl last year, and they happened in a game decided by 4 points rather than 11.This is not a shot at you, BGP, I'm seriously wondering if you're going to apply the same rules to all the teams in your statistical analysis, or whether they only apply to last year's SB for some reason.

You are right. The two calls last night were horrible. The no call on Caldwell seemed worse because it was so obvious but it was still a judgement call. The call on Hobbs was the application of a rule that doesnt exist. If the DB does not touch the receiver, there is no rule in the books that can be applied to call PI. The back judge making the call had a terrible angle so if he said he thought Hobbs hit Wayne then I guess I could swallow it as bad judgement. However, if he called the penalty because Hobbs didnt turn his head, that is a misinterpretation of the rules. There is no penalty associated with not turning your head.Also, the offsides against Seymour was a terrible call. The new rule (about 5 years old I guess) is that if the defender enters the neutral zone so as to draw the offensive player across from him offsides, the penalty shall be against the defense. Seymour was in front of the left guard. He was attempting to get back onsides when the right guard stood up and pointed at him. Seymour did not draw the right guard offsides. The right guard came out of his stance of his own volition. That should have been a false start and was a big play in the game.Judgement calls are judgement calls and can be argued legitimately from both sides. The two above mentioned misinterpretation of the rules is what aggavated me last night.Back to the Steelers comparison. Even with the calls I mentioned above, at the end of the game, I did not feel that the game had been stolen from the Pats. The Colts won it and the Pats lost it. The Colts played VERY well. The Steelers played pretty terrible by most standards (just check the QB's). That is why I think people discount the Steelers win but wont put any caveats on this Colts win.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

When your SB data etc... is posted next year, are you going to acknowledge the Colts as AFC champions, even though the referees "influenced the result" of yesterday's game by calling a bogus PI penalty on Ellis Hobbs, but allowing the Colts secondary to mug Caldwell in the end zone without a flag later in the game? Both of these calls/non-calls were more egregious than the disputed OPI/holding calls in the Super Bowl last year, and they happened in a game decided by 4 points rather than 11.

This is not a shot at you, BGP, I'm seriously wondering if you're going to apply the same rules to all the teams in your statistical analysis, or whether they only apply to last year's SB for some reason.

You are right. The two calls last night were horrible. The no call on Caldwell seemed worse because it was so obvious but it was still a judgement call. The call on Hobbs was the application of a rule that doesnt exist. If the DB does not touch the receiver, there is no rule in the books that can be applied to call PI. The back judge making the call had a terrible angle so if he said he thought Hobbs hit Wayne then I guess I could swallow it as bad judgement. However, if he called the penalty because Hobbs didnt turn his head, that is a misinterpretation of the rules. There is no penalty associated with not turning your head.Also, the offsides against Seymour was a terrible call. The new rule (about 5 years old I guess) is that if the defender enters the neutral zone so as to draw the offensive player across from him offsides, the penalty shall be against the defense. Seymour was in front of the left guard. He was attempting to get back onsides when the right guard stood up and pointed at him. Seymour did not draw the right guard offsides. The right guard came out of his stance of his own volition. That should have been a false start and was a big play in the game.

Judgement calls are judgement calls and can be argued legitimately from both sides. The two above mentioned misinterpretation of the rules is what aggavated me last night.

Back to the Steelers comparison. Even with the calls I mentioned above, at the end of the game, I did not feel that the game had been stolen from the Pats. The Colts won it and the Pats lost it. The Colts played VERY well. The Steelers played pretty terrible by most standards (just check the QB's). That is why I think people discount the Steelers win but wont put any caveats on this Colts win.

Admittedly Roethlisberger sucked, but they ran for 181 yards in the game, averaged 1 yard more per play than did Seattle, and converted 8/15 3rd downs, while allowing only 5/17. They actually played well in many phases of the game, including holding Seattle to only 10 points, only Roethlisberger really underperformed, and even he made enough plays to win.Although, I agree that yesterday's game was not stolen from the Pats anymore than that Super Bowl was stolen from Seattle. Both Pittsburgh and Indy won the games on the field by making more plays than the opponent when it counted most. I'm just eager to see BGP's take, as he seems to factor the refereeing into the result far more than you or I.

 

[PatsWillWin]

The non-call on Caldwell was HORRIBLE.

That being said, if I'm listing reasons as to why the Patriots lost the game, the refs are probably like...12th. They had plenty of chances to win despite that non-call - NOT an excuse in my mind.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

The non-call on Caldwell was HORRIBLE.That being said, if I'm listing reasons as to why the Patriots lost the game, the refs are probably like...12th. They had plenty of chances to win despite that non-call - NOT an excuse in my mind.

I agree 100%, but I don't think BGP has the same views, that's why I'm asking. He seems to have a major problem with the state of officiating in the NFL and I'm curious as to whether that game furthered his cause.

 

[PMENFAN]

Also, the offsides against Seymour was a terrible call. The new rule (about 5 years old I guess) is that if the defender enters the neutral zone so as to draw the offensive player across from him offsides, the penalty shall be against the defense. Seymour was in front of the left guard. He was attempting to get back onsides when the right guard stood up and pointed at him. Seymour did not draw the right guard offsides. The right guard came out of his stance of his own volition. That should have been a false start and was a big play in the game.

That's a great point. It game them a first down. If then had snapped while he's in the Neutral zone, so be it, or if the LG or LT moves, so be it. But, for the ORG to stand up and point, and get the call? Bad call. Ovarall though, I felt it was a pretty well officiated game. Couple of holds missed, and a blatant trip by Tarik Glenn on Colvn where he had gotten past that didn't get called, but that'll always happen. Did calls decide the game? I don't think so, but they sure did give the Colts a couple of big breaks that changed the complexion.

 

[Jous]

I never really understood the whole "Seattle dominated Pittsburgh" thing anyway. They only gained about 60 yards more than them overall, and 57 of them were made on that worthless final drive of the game for Seattle when the outcome was already decided. The Seahawks only converted 5/17 3rd downs, which is atrocious, while Pittsburgh had 8/15, which is not great but certainly much better. The only other thing people use to say Seattle dominated wad that they won the turnover battle, but it was basically an even turnover battle. Both teams capitalized on 1 turnover, but the 2nd turnover by Pittsburgh meant nothing anyway because Seattle proceeded to go 3 and out.

 

[PahtyTom]

I've never seen a game officiated more one sided in my life than last year's SB. I felt bad for my buddy who's a Seahawks fan, because it was so obvious that something was not kosher.

This Pats/Colts game yesterday was pretty bad in itself, but really not even close to last year's SB in comparison. For example, last year D-Jax clearly caught a TD on the first drive and there was an unbelievably bogus call to wipe it away. Yesterday, Gaffney's TD was questionable and it went in the Pats favor. NOTHING went in Seattle's favor last year.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I've never seen a game officiated more one sided in my life than last year's SB. I felt bad for my buddy who's a Seahawks fan, because it was so obvious that something was not kosher.This Pats/Colts game yesterday was pretty bad in itself, but really not even close to last year's SB in comparison.

 

[The Jerk]

EG,

No fair jumping ahead in the line. I'm still waiting for BGP's response to my questions:

1. How many other games (like SB XL) are arbitrarily excluded from the self-reported results of your system?

2. Does the success of any other team lead to self-important diatribes in which you attempt to pass off your purposeful ignorance of actual results as moral superiority or is it reserved purely for the Steelers?

3. Why are you unable to actually respond to post content and/or answer legitimate questions concerning your system (in particular, ignoring schedule difficulty as a factor)?

4. Why should anyone take your system seriously when you deliberately exclude results of some games that the system missed without informing people of that practice?

(I know it's shocking to everyone when BGP fails to respond to legitimate questions/criticisms. Over/Under for BGP's post asking for certain posters to be banned is 5 hours 24 minutes.)

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I've never seen a game officiated more one sided in my life than last year's SB. I felt bad for my buddy who's a Seahawks fan, because it was so obvious that something was not kosher.This Pats/Colts game yesterday was pretty bad in itself, but really not even close to last year's SB in comparison. For example, last year D-Jax clearly caught a TD on the first drive and there was an unbelievably bogus call to wipe it away. Yesterday, Gaffney's TD was questionable and it went in the Pats favor. NOTHING went in Seattle's favor last year.

Oh, OK - so the pass interference call on Hobbs yesterday you have no problem with, but the Jackson pass interference call you do, huh?Take a guess which one of those was called EXACTLY as it's written in the rule book, and which one was called based on a non-existent rule done away with years ago, that was a blatant misinterpretation by the referees?

 

[PahtyTom]

I've never seen a game officiated more one sided in my life than last year's SB. I felt bad for my buddy who's a Seahawks fan, because it was so obvious that something was not kosher.This Pats/Colts game yesterday was pretty bad in itself, but really not even close to last year's SB in comparison.

I'm not saying I don't recognize the Steelers as SB champs. I could careless who won it last year. It was a cute little story and all. But, if you can't see how one sided the officiating in that game was then you've got your blinders on. It really was gross.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I've never seen a game officiated more one sided in my life than last year's SB. I felt bad for my buddy who's a Seahawks fan, because it was so obvious that something was not kosher.This Pats/Colts game yesterday was pretty bad in itself, but really not even close to last year's SB in comparison.

I'm not saying I don't recognize the Steelers as SB champs. I could careless who won it last year. It was a cute little story and all. But, if you can't see how one sided the officiating in that game was then you've got your blinders on. It really was gross.

How about the blatant block in the back on Roethlisberger on the interception return that sprang Seattle for about an extra 30 yards and led directly to their only TD? Don't say NOTHING went in their favor, it isn't true. The calls against them were legit, with the only exception being the Hasselbeck low block call, which sucked.NE got it worse from the refs yesterday than Seattle did, no question.

 

[The Jerk]

I never really understood the whole "Seattle dominated Pittsburgh" thing anyway. They only gained about 60 yards more than them overall, and 57 of them were made on that worthless final drive of the game for Seattle when the outcome was already decided. The Seahawks only converted 5/17 3rd downs, which is atrocious, while Pittsburgh had 8/15, which is not great but certainly much better. The only other thing people use to say Seattle dominated wad that they won the turnover battle, but it was basically an even turnover battle. Both teams capitalized on 1 turnover, but the 2nd turnover by Pittsburgh meant nothing anyway because Seattle proceeded to go 3 and out.

I believe Seattle's yardage advantages was exactly 57 yards, which is what they got on the final drive that ran out the clock while down by 11 points.Alternatively, the yardage edge can be attributed to the Steelers slow start offensively. Seattle had a 78-17 yardage advantage at the end of the first quarter.In addition, the slow start by the Steelers included 0-3 on third down conversions in the first quarter, which means for the remainder of the game, the Steelers went 8-12 on third downs.My favorite stat supposedly showing dominance by Seattle is first downs, in which the Seahawks had a 20-14 edge. Of course, the final two Steeler TDs covered 118 yards. The Seahawks D sold out on the run and short passes, leaving them vulnerable to the big play. Most of the game it worked, but because it didn't twice -- and that's the chance you take when you choose to be aggressive on D -- the Steelers won the game.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Let's not turn this into the 50,000th thread over last year's Super Bowl. That's over and done with long ago. What I'm talking about is the refereeing yesterday.

 

[Pat Patriot]

I've never seen a game officiated more one sided in my life than last year's SB. I felt bad for my buddy who's a Seahawks fan, because it was so obvious that something was not kosher.This Pats/Colts game yesterday was pretty bad in itself, but really not even close to last year's SB in comparison.

I'm not saying I don't recognize the Steelers as SB champs. I could careless who won it last year. It was a cute little story and all. But, if you can't see how one sided the officiating in that game was then you've got your blinders on. It really was gross.

Evil,I was out of the country for the SB last year and didnt see the game live. EVERYONE I talked to when I got back talked about the officiating first. It was definitely the theme. Everything I read was about the officiating. I eventually watched the game on TIVO and thought the calls were a bit onesided but didnt think it determined the game. I do think the Jackson offensive pass interference call was one that is typically not made, why make it in the SB? I was just shocked and of the opinion that the Steelers played the worst game of any SB champion I had ever seen.

 

[Pat Patriot]

I've never seen a game officiated more one sided in my life than last year's SB. I felt bad for my buddy who's a Seahawks fan, because it was so obvious that something was not kosher.This Pats/Colts game yesterday was pretty bad in itself, but really not even close to last year's SB in comparison.

I'm not saying I don't recognize the Steelers as SB champs. I could careless who won it last year. It was a cute little story and all. But, if you can't see how one sided the officiating in that game was then you've got your blinders on. It really was gross.

How about the blatant block in the back on Roethlisberger on the interception return that sprang Seattle for about an extra 30 yards and led directly to their only TD? Don't say NOTHING went in their favor, it isn't true. The calls against them were legit, with the only exception being the Hasselbeck low block call, which sucked.NE got it worse from the refs yesterday than Seattle did, no question.

Are you turning into a Patriots fan?

 

[The Jerk]

I've never seen a game officiated more one sided in my life than last year's SB. I felt bad for my buddy who's a Seahawks fan, because it was so obvious that something was not kosher.This Pats/Colts game yesterday was pretty bad in itself, but really not even close to last year's SB in comparison.

I'm not saying I don't recognize the Steelers as SB champs. I could careless who won it last year. It was a cute little story and all. But, if you can't see how one sided the officiating in that game was then you've got your blinders on. It really was gross.

PahtyTom, Pat Patriot et al:More than 40 non-Steeler fan FBGs defended the officiating in SB XL as being fairly typical. From the original SB XL thread on officiating (roughly 900 posts), here's the list:roadkill 1292, Sideline Merc (Ravens)Bears Man 2, GRIDIRON ASSASSIN, boubucarow (Bears)BigRed (Colts)Pony Boy, Shredhead, Elway Lives, SSOG (Broncos)j3r3m3y, Challenge Everything (Dolphins)biglare66, Chaos Commish, B-Deep (Cowboys) – probably also Darth ChaneyScott72, vitaflo, Ditkaless Wonders, Snorlax (Packers)Mik789fl (Giants)Nerangers, KitFisto, zoni, ChromeWeasel, PMENFAN, pettifogger (Patriots) – probably also thorn2000Preacher1 (Vikings)Sinrman, TwinTurbo, Spartans Rule, steviey (Lions)tattoofan (Texans)massraider, Just Win Baby (Raiders)stbugs (Redskins)footballhead (Chiefs)Me & My Uncle (Eagles)Cal Bear (Chargers)Keys Myaths (Cardinals or Rams)Men-in-Cleats (Bills)fruity pebbles (Niners)

 

[Sea Bass]

With everything that happened the Seahawks had many oportunities to win Super Bowl XL. They failed, and therefore LOST the game. No complaints from this Seattle fan.

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is.........................either you are saying that the Hawks and Pats were cheated or the Steelers and Colts deserved to win?

 

[PahtyTom]

I've never seen a game officiated more one sided in my life than last year's SB. I felt bad for my buddy who's a Seahawks fan, because it was so obvious that something was not kosher.This Pats/Colts game yesterday was pretty bad in itself, but really not even close to last year's SB in comparison. For example, last year D-Jax clearly caught a TD on the first drive and there was an unbelievably bogus call to wipe it away. Yesterday, Gaffney's TD was questionable and it went in the Pats favor. NOTHING went in Seattle's favor last year.

Oh, OK - so the pass interference call on Hobbs yesterday you have no problem with, but the Jackson pass interference call you do, huh?Take a guess which one of those was called EXACTLY as it's written in the rule book, and which one was called based on a non-existent rule done away with years ago, that was a blatant misinterpretation by the referees?

I didn't say I didn't have a problem with the Hobbs call, or the Caldwell non-call for that matter. I'm a Pats fan for cryin' out loud. I was flipping out. But, they pale in comparison to what was done to Seattle last year. Like I said, NOTHING went in Seattle's favor last year while some went in NE's yesterday. I'm not going to put blinders (like some people). The DJax call was as bogus as it comes, regardless of what you tell yourself. He barely touched the guy, and it's never called anyway. All the sudden the ref from Pittsburgh is going to the throw a late flag on it in the Super Bowl?? The tripping call on Hasselbeck when he just tackled a guy with the ball. The mysterious holding penalty on Locklear. The DJax catch at the end of the half that wasn't even looked at or given a replay of on live TV. He was probably out of bounds, but since when are they not going to show a million replays of a 50 yard bomb at the end of a half where the guy catches it and hits the pylon? Ben's non-td. The play clock obviously running out and Pitt still be awarded a TO. It was a gross display, and was fishy IMO. Much worse than yesterday.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I've never seen a game officiated more one sided in my life than last year's SB. I felt bad for my buddy who's a Seahawks fan, because it was so obvious that something was not kosher.This Pats/Colts game yesterday was pretty bad in itself, but really not even close to last year's SB in comparison.

I'm not saying I don't recognize the Steelers as SB champs. I could careless who won it last year. It was a cute little story and all. But, if you can't see how one sided the officiating in that game was then you've got your blinders on. It really was gross.

Evil,I was out of the country for the SB last year and didnt see the game live. EVERYONE I talked to when I got back talked about the officiating first. It was definitely the theme. Everything I read was about the officiating. I eventually watched the game on TIVO and thought the calls were a bit onesided but didnt think it determined the game. I do think the Jackson offensive pass interference call was one that is typically not made, why make it in the SB? I was just shocked and of the opinion that the Steelers played the worst game of any SB champion I had ever seen.

See, that's everyone's reaction to that call. No one even denies that it was the right call, they're just wondering why it was made. The fact that Jackson obviously pushed off and did it right in front of the back judge is irrelevant compared to the fact that Madden thought it was ticky-tack. Yet, yesterday, the Patriots were hit with a PI penalty on a play where the rule was misinterpreted by the refs, and it was CLEARLY the wrong call, but no one seems offended by it, probably because the misinformed commentators agreed with it.It just reminds me how much stock people put in the announcing teams and what they say.The Steelers also probably played their worst game since mid-season in that game too, so I see what you're saying. The fact that they were still able to come up with clutch plays when it counted, overcome a very sluggish start, and beat a very good Seahawks team was a testament to the heart and resilience of that squad. That's why I was so dismayed to see so many people blaming Seattle's loss on the officiating, when as you said, it wasn't what determined the game.

 

[BGP]

When your SB data etc... is posted next year, are you going to acknowledge the Colts as AFC champions, even though the referees "influenced the result" of yesterday's game by calling a bogus PI penalty on Ellis Hobbs, but allowing the Colts secondary to mug Caldwell in the end zone without a flag later in the game? Both of these calls/non-calls were more egregious than the disputed OPI/holding calls in the Super Bowl last year, and they happened in a game decided by 4 points rather than 11.This is not a shot at you, BGP, I'm seriously wondering if you're going to apply the same rules to all the teams in your statistical analysis, or whether they only apply to last year's SB for some reason.

There has never been anything remotely close to what happened at Super Bowl XL. After that Super Bowl, SO MANY people saw how horrible a job the officiating crew did, and how it directly changed the outcome of the game, that fans across the country were upset and outraged. Even John Madden was pushed to the point where he had to come out and openly criticize the officiating as he called the game. Even Mike Holmgren and the Seahawks had to comment on how bad it was. Finally, the NFL itself had to come out and issue some kind of statement on the matter.Not even close to anything to what happened this weekend. Not even close.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

With everything that happened the Seahawks had many oportunities to win Super Bowl XL. They failed, and therefore LOST the game. No complaints from this Seattle fan.I'm not sure what the point of this thread is.........................either you are saying that the Hawks and Pats were cheated or the Steelers and Colts deserved to win?

I'm saying the Steelers and Colts deserved to win. I think both situations are extremely similar.BGP thinks the Seahawks were cheated, so surely he would believe New England was as well. He thinks the officiating is God-awful in the NFL right now, so I'm wondering if yesterday's game set him off further.

 

[PahtyTom]

I've never seen a game officiated more one sided in my life than last year's SB. I felt bad for my buddy who's a Seahawks fan, because it was so obvious that something was not kosher.This Pats/Colts game yesterday was pretty bad in itself, but really not even close to last year's SB in comparison.

I'm not saying I don't recognize the Steelers as SB champs. I could careless who won it last year. It was a cute little story and all. But, if you can't see how one sided the officiating in that game was then you've got your blinders on. It really was gross.

PahtyTom, Pat Patriot et al:More than 40 non-Steeler fan FBGs defended the officiating in SB XL as being fairly typical. From the original SB XL thread on officiating (roughly 900 posts), here's the list:roadkill 1292, Sideline Merc (Ravens)Bears Man 2, GRIDIRON ASSASSIN, boubucarow (Bears)BigRed (Colts)Pony Boy, Shredhead, Elway Lives, SSOG (Broncos)j3r3m3y, Challenge Everything (Dolphins)biglare66, Chaos Commish, B-Deep (Cowboys) – probably also Darth ChaneyScott72, vitaflo, Ditkaless Wonders, Snorlax (Packers)Mik789fl (Giants)Nerangers, KitFisto, zoni, ChromeWeasel, PMENFAN, pettifogger (Patriots) – probably also thorn2000Preacher1 (Vikings)Sinrman, TwinTurbo, Spartans Rule, steviey (Lions)tattoofan (Texans)massraider, Just Win Baby (Raiders)stbugs (Redskins)footballhead (Chiefs)Me & My Uncle (Eagles)Cal Bear (Chargers)Keys Myaths (Cardinals or Rams)Men-in-Cleats (Bills)fruity pebbles (Niners)

I can't speak for them, but I honestly can't understand how anyone with no affiliation to either team could watch that game and think it was fairly officiated. The fact that there are a lot of people on this board that feel that way is puzzling to me, but it in no way changes my opinion. There were a ton of articles by reputable publications written the day after the Super Bowl based solely on how bad the refs were.

 

[The Jerk]

With everything that happened the Seahawks had many oportunities to win Super Bowl XL. They failed, and therefore LOST the game. No complaints from this Seattle fan.I'm not sure what the point of this thread is.........................either you are saying that the Hawks and Pats were cheated or the Steelers and Colts deserved to win?

The point of this thread is that BGP provides statistical analyses based on what he calls his efficiency ratings, which is basically yards per point. Ideally, teams have low offensive efficiency ratings and high defensive efficiency ratings.Last year, he adamantly predicted a Seattle victory due to their superiority to the Steelers in both offensive and defensive efficiency. He pointed out that teams with better efficiencies were 7-0 in the Super Bowl since 1990.This year, BGP is still telling everyone that teams with both efficiency advantages are 7-0 in the Super Bowl since 1990 -- which this year means the Bears.So the point is the BGP has discarded the result of last year's Super Bowl. He claims it is because the officials affected the game. People like me and Evilgrin are calling him on it. It's one thing to claim the officials influence outcomes of a game, but it seems like he's more interested in protecting (and cherry picking) the results of his system. After all, he's never been one to admit when he's wrong. Conveniently, denying the Steelers win last year allows him to protect his other prediction that Cowher and the Steelers would never win a championship (see BGP's sig).

 

[Evilgrin 72]

When your SB data etc... is posted next year, are you going to acknowledge the Colts as AFC champions, even though the referees "influenced the result" of yesterday's game by calling a bogus PI penalty on Ellis Hobbs, but allowing the Colts secondary to mug Caldwell in the end zone without a flag later in the game? Both of these calls/non-calls were more egregious than the disputed OPI/holding calls in the Super Bowl last year, and they happened in a game decided by 4 points rather than 11.This is not a shot at you, BGP, I'm seriously wondering if you're going to apply the same rules to all the teams in your statistical analysis, or whether they only apply to last year's SB for some reason.

There has never been anything remotely close to what happened at Super Bowl XL. After that Super Bowl, SO MANY people saw how horrible a job the officiating crew did, and how it directly changed the outcome of the game, that fans across the country were upset and outraged. Even John Madden was pushed to the point where he had to come out and openly criticize the officiating as he called the game. Even Mike Holmgren and the Seahawks had to comment on how bad it was. Finally, the NFL itself had to come out and issue some kind of statement on the matter.Not even close to anything to what happened this weekend. Not even close.

The NFL issued a statement backing the refs....unlike after the Colts/Steelers game when they admitted the officiating blunder that was made. Madden criticizing the officiating is what caused all the "outrage" - had he supported what were correct calls, there would have been absolutely no complaint.So, you like the calls yesterday, then - you think they were correct?

 

[BGP]

My question to you:

Is it impossible for officiating to be so awful that it directly alters the outcome of a game?

And what is your moral responsibility here? Should you lie about such an event to cya? Or be a stand-up person and say "The officiating was bad - let's look into it"?

 

[boubucarow]

I've never seen a game officiated more one sided in my life than last year's SB. I felt bad for my buddy who's a Seahawks fan, because it was so obvious that something was not kosher.This Pats/Colts game yesterday was pretty bad in itself, but really not even close to last year's SB in comparison.

I'm not saying I don't recognize the Steelers as SB champs. I could careless who won it last year. It was a cute little story and all. But, if you can't see how one sided the officiating in that game was then you've got your blinders on. It really was gross.

PahtyTom, Pat Patriot et al:More than 40 non-Steeler fan FBGs defended the officiating in SB XL as being fairly typical. From the original SB XL thread on officiating (roughly 900 posts), here's the list:roadkill 1292, Sideline Merc (Ravens)Bears Man 2, GRIDIRON ASSASSIN, boubucarow (Bears)BigRed (Colts)Pony Boy, Shredhead, Elway Lives, SSOG (Broncos)j3r3m3y, Challenge Everything (Dolphins)biglare66, Chaos Commish, B-Deep (Cowboys) – probably also Darth ChaneyScott72, vitaflo, Ditkaless Wonders, Snorlax (Packers)Mik789fl (Giants)Nerangers, KitFisto, zoni, ChromeWeasel, PMENFAN, pettifogger (Patriots) – probably also thorn2000Preacher1 (Vikings)Sinrman, TwinTurbo, Spartans Rule, steviey (Lions)tattoofan (Texans)massraider, Just Win Baby (Raiders)stbugs (Redskins)footballhead (Chiefs)Me & My Uncle (Eagles)Cal Bear (Chargers)Keys Myaths (Cardinals or Rams)Men-in-Cleats (Bills)fruity pebbles (Niners)

I can't speak for them, but I honestly can't understand how anyone with no affiliation to either team could watch that game and think it was fairly officiated. The fact that there are a lot of people on this board that feel that way is puzzling to me, but it in no way changes my opinion. There were a ton of articles by reputable publications written the day after the Super Bowl based solely on how bad the refs were.

Like stated by Evilgrin, the only call that was wrong was the low block on Hasselbeck. All of the other calls were penalties as seen by the letter of the law. They were not blown calls. The only argument possible is that the flags should have been kept in their pocket because refs shouldn't make game changing calls on important plays. But the refs were right.

 

[Jous]

I'm just in amazement that this is still even a topic. Super Bowl XL has been over for a year, and people are still concerning themselves with this by this much? Amazing.

Pittsburgh won, Seattle lost. People complain about Pittsburhg playing badly and still winning, but really, should Seattle have won? They played even worse... what kind of champion drops 4 passes (one of which would have led to 1st and goal, another to 1st and 10 from about the Steeler 20). What kind of champion misses 2 field goals and has possibly the worst clock management in Super Bowl history at the end of consecutive halfs? What kind of champion shows 0 ability to overcome any adversity after they had what they believed were bad calls go against them? The Seahawks had every chance to win that game, and choked tremendously.

People can say all they want, but there will NEVER be an asterisk next the Super Bowl XL, and the trophy will NEVER leave Pittsburgh.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

My question to you:Is it impossible for officiating to be so awful that it directly alters the outcome of a game?And what is your moral responsibility here? Should you lie about such an event to cya? Or be a stand-up person and say "The officiating was bad - let's look into it"?

No, it's not impossible. I've seen games where it's happened - however, I don't think last year's Super Bowl qualifies. I think the "uproar" you talk about over the officiating (with the exception of the Hasselbeck low-block call, which I hated) was based solely on people hearing what Madden had to say and getting up in arms over it. Had the guy been neutral on those calls, there would have been no controversy.If the officiating is truly awful, I absolutely believe it should be looked into. That's why I am asking you - when calls are made like they were in yesterday's game, do you invalidate the Colts win as well? The no-call on the pass interference on Caldwell in the end zone was a judgment call, and to me was FAR more obvious than the Locklear holding penalty you have such an issue with. Further, the PI call on Hobbs was based on a rule that no longer exists. The referees simply didn't know or apply the rule correctly and called a penalty on a play that absolutely should not have been a penalty.Since this led directly to a Colts TD in a game decide by 4 points, how did this call, by YOUR definition, not influence the outcome of that game?

 

[The Jerk]

I've never seen a game officiated more one sided in my life than last year's SB. I felt bad for my buddy who's a Seahawks fan, because it was so obvious that something was not kosher.This Pats/Colts game yesterday was pretty bad in itself, but really not even close to last year's SB in comparison.

I'm not saying I don't recognize the Steelers as SB champs. I could careless who won it last year. It was a cute little story and all. But, if you can't see how one sided the officiating in that game was then you've got your blinders on. It really was gross.

PahtyTom, Pat Patriot et al:More than 40 non-Steeler fan FBGs defended the officiating in SB XL as being fairly typical. From the original SB XL thread on officiating (roughly 900 posts), here's the list:roadkill 1292, Sideline Merc (Ravens)Bears Man 2, GRIDIRON ASSASSIN, boubucarow (Bears)BigRed (Colts)Pony Boy, Shredhead, Elway Lives, SSOG (Broncos)j3r3m3y, Challenge Everything (Dolphins)biglare66, Chaos Commish, B-Deep (Cowboys) – probably also Darth ChaneyScott72, vitaflo, Ditkaless Wonders, Snorlax (Packers)Mik789fl (Giants)Nerangers, KitFisto, zoni, ChromeWeasel, PMENFAN, pettifogger (Patriots) – probably also thorn2000Preacher1 (Vikings)Sinrman, TwinTurbo, Spartans Rule, steviey (Lions)tattoofan (Texans)massraider, Just Win Baby (Raiders)stbugs (Redskins)footballhead (Chiefs)Me & My Uncle (Eagles)Cal Bear (Chargers)Keys Myaths (Cardinals or Rams)Men-in-Cleats (Bills)fruity pebbles (Niners)

I can't speak for them, but I honestly can't understand how anyone with no affiliation to either team could watch that game and think it was fairly officiated. The fact that there are a lot of people on this board that feel that way is puzzling to me, but it in no way changes my opinion. There were a ton of articles by reputable publications written the day after the Super Bowl based solely on how bad the refs were.

I understand your position, and that's cool. Just remember that the officiating was more spotlighted due to the lead-up to the Super Bowl last year. There were many mistakes made in the playoffs that were worse than the Super Bowl. Pats fans like yourself will never believe Champ Bailey's fumble went out of bounds rather than through the end zone. Polamalu's interception overturn was possibly the worst officiating call ever. There were other close plays that may have been correct (Tampa Bay's near-TD catch vs. Washington), but given they were close, it makes the officiating more visible. The media jumped on this overall theme -- that is to say, officiating throughout the playoffs) as much as in the SB itself. Don't forget that ESPN drove the reaction by media and fans alike, and noteworthy as the loudest voice railing against the officials was Colin Cowherd, a native of -- you guessed it -- Washington state.Close calls can lead people to believe the officials are influencing the game even if they get the calls right. It's conceivable that the NFL officials were conspicuous due simply to an unusually high number of close calls in addition to a few flat out wrong calls last year.

 

[Jous]

Pahty Tom, you do realize that there were also a lot of publications in the media of how the Seahawks didn't play enough to win, don't you?

 

[fred_1_15301]

When your SB data etc... is posted next year, are you going to acknowledge the Colts as AFC champions, even though the referees "influenced the result" of yesterday's game by calling a bogus PI penalty on Ellis Hobbs, but allowing the Colts secondary to mug Caldwell in the end zone without a flag later in the game? Both of these calls/non-calls were more egregious than the disputed OPI/holding calls in the Super Bowl last year, and they happened in a game decided by 4 points rather than 11.This is not a shot at you, BGP, I'm seriously wondering if you're going to apply the same rules to all the teams in your statistical analysis, or whether they only apply to last year's SB for some reason.

Did you really have to start this up again? BGP is a little . Everyone (at least everyone with half a brain) knows that the Steelers deserved to win the superbowl last year just like the Colts deserved to beat the Pats. The better teams won in both games.

 

[fred_1_15301]

When your SB data etc... is posted next year, are you going to acknowledge the Colts as AFC champions, even though the referees "influenced the result" of yesterday's game by calling a bogus PI penalty on Ellis Hobbs, but allowing the Colts secondary to mug Caldwell in the end zone without a flag later in the game? Both of these calls/non-calls were more egregious than the disputed OPI/holding calls in the Super Bowl last year, and they happened in a game decided by 4 points rather than 11.This is not a shot at you, BGP, I'm seriously wondering if you're going to apply the same rules to all the teams in your statistical analysis, or whether they only apply to last year's SB for some reason.

There has never been anything remotely close to what happened at Super Bowl XL. After that Super Bowl, SO MANY people saw how horrible a job the officiating crew did, and how it directly changed the outcome of the game, that fans across the country were upset and outraged. Even John Madden was pushed to the point where he had to come out and openly criticize the officiating as he called the game. Even Mike Holmgren and the Seahawks had to comment on how bad it was. Finally, the NFL itself had to come out and issue some kind of statement on the matter.Not even close to anything to what happened this weekend. Not even close.

This post is a classic. BPG=

 

[Evilgrin 72]

When your SB data etc... is posted next year, are you going to acknowledge the Colts as AFC champions, even though the referees "influenced the result" of yesterday's game by calling a bogus PI penalty on Ellis Hobbs, but allowing the Colts secondary to mug Caldwell in the end zone without a flag later in the game? Both of these calls/non-calls were more egregious than the disputed OPI/holding calls in the Super Bowl last year, and they happened in a game decided by 4 points rather than 11.This is not a shot at you, BGP, I'm seriously wondering if you're going to apply the same rules to all the teams in your statistical analysis, or whether they only apply to last year's SB for some reason.

Did you really have to start this up again? BGP is a little . Everyone (at least everyone with half a brain) knows that the Steelers deserved to win the superbowl last year just like the Colts deserved to beat the Pats. The better teams won in both games.

I agree. I wanted his take on the officiating yesterday, which in several key instances, was awful - far worse than last year's SB. Given that he's taken it upon himself to lead the crusade for better officiating in the NFL, I was anxious to see if his outrage was stoked yesterday or whether his indignant routine towards the officiating is simply a transparent way to attempt to mask his blatanly obvious anti-Steeler bias.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Did you really have to start this up again?

Is it not the most entertaining thread you've read in the Shark Pool today?

 

[PahtyTom]

When your SB data etc... is posted next year, are you going to acknowledge the Colts as AFC champions, even though the referees "influenced the result" of yesterday's game by calling a bogus PI penalty on Ellis Hobbs, but allowing the Colts secondary to mug Caldwell in the end zone without a flag later in the game? Both of these calls/non-calls were more egregious than the disputed OPI/holding calls in the Super Bowl last year, and they happened in a game decided by 4 points rather than 11.This is not a shot at you, BGP, I'm seriously wondering if you're going to apply the same rules to all the teams in your statistical analysis, or whether they only apply to last year's SB for some reason.

There has never been anything remotely close to what happened at Super Bowl XL. After that Super Bowl, SO MANY people saw how horrible a job the officiating crew did, and how it directly changed the outcome of the game, that fans across the country were upset and outraged. Even John Madden was pushed to the point where he had to come out and openly criticize the officiating as he called the game. Even Mike Holmgren and the Seahawks had to comment on how bad it was. Finally, the NFL itself had to come out and issue some kind of statement on the matter.Not even close to anything to what happened this weekend. Not even close.

The NFL issued a statement backing the refs....unlike after the Colts/Steelers game when they admitted the officiating blunder that was made. Madden criticizing the officiating is what caused all the "outrage" - had he supported what were correct calls, there would have been absolutely no complaint.So, you like the calls yesterday, then - you think they were correct?

I agree that announcers influence the viewing audience. Like this year when that idiot Dierdorf was saying that McCree's hit on Hoosh was dirty, even when replays showed that it wasn't helmet to helmet. That said, I'm more inclined to disagree with idiot announcers personal opinions about what is going on.

 

[guderian]

My question to you:Is it impossible for officiating to be so awful that it directly alters the outcome of a game?And what is your moral responsibility here? Should you lie about such an event to cya? Or be a stand-up person and say "The officiating was bad - let's look into it"?

There are no moral responsibilities in statistics.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Did you really have to start this up again?

Is it not the most entertaining thread you've read in the Shark Pool today?

Well he does have some valid point you must admit. He did cite John Madden, Mike Holmgren, and the Seahawks players of accusing the refs of poor officiating. Gee there isn't any bias there.....

 

[BGP]

The NFL could learn a lesson from boxing. Its necessary to have a provision where you vacate the title and have no champion. Super Bowl XL was one of those times. It doesn't hurt boxing and it wouldn't hurt the NFL.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

The NFL could learn a lesson from boxing. Its necessary to have a provision where you vacate the title and have no champion. Super Bowl XL was one of those times. It doesn't hurt boxing and it wouldn't hurt the NFL.

You're ducking the question here. Stop falling back on schtick and answer my question directly like I answered yours.

 

[PahtyTom]

I've never seen a game officiated more one sided in my life than last year's SB. I felt bad for my buddy who's a Seahawks fan, because it was so obvious that something was not kosher.This Pats/Colts game yesterday was pretty bad in itself, but really not even close to last year's SB in comparison.

I'm not saying I don't recognize the Steelers as SB champs. I could careless who won it last year. It was a cute little story and all. But, if you can't see how one sided the officiating in that game was then you've got your blinders on. It really was gross.

PahtyTom, Pat Patriot et al:More than 40 non-Steeler fan FBGs defended the officiating in SB XL as being fairly typical. From the original SB XL thread on officiating (roughly 900 posts), here's the list:roadkill 1292, Sideline Merc (Ravens)Bears Man 2, GRIDIRON ASSASSIN, boubucarow (Bears)BigRed (Colts)Pony Boy, Shredhead, Elway Lives, SSOG (Broncos)j3r3m3y, Challenge Everything (Dolphins)biglare66, Chaos Commish, B-Deep (Cowboys) – probably also Darth ChaneyScott72, vitaflo, Ditkaless Wonders, Snorlax (Packers)Mik789fl (Giants)Nerangers, KitFisto, zoni, ChromeWeasel, PMENFAN, pettifogger (Patriots) – probably also thorn2000Preacher1 (Vikings)Sinrman, TwinTurbo, Spartans Rule, steviey (Lions)tattoofan (Texans)massraider, Just Win Baby (Raiders)stbugs (Redskins)footballhead (Chiefs)Me & My Uncle (Eagles)Cal Bear (Chargers)Keys Myaths (Cardinals or Rams)Men-in-Cleats (Bills)fruity pebbles (Niners)

I can't speak for them, but I honestly can't understand how anyone with no affiliation to either team could watch that game and think it was fairly officiated. The fact that there are a lot of people on this board that feel that way is puzzling to me, but it in no way changes my opinion. There were a ton of articles by reputable publications written the day after the Super Bowl based solely on how bad the refs were.

I understand your position, and that's cool. Just remember that the officiating was more spotlighted due to the lead-up to the Super Bowl last year. There were many mistakes made in the playoffs that were worse than the Super Bowl. Pats fans like yourself will never believe Champ Bailey's fumble went out of bounds rather than through the end zone. Polamalu's interception overturn was possibly the worst officiating call ever. There were other close plays that may have been correct (Tampa Bay's near-TD catch vs. Washington), but given they were close, it makes the officiating more visible. The media jumped on this overall theme -- that is to say, officiating throughout the playoffs) as much as in the SB itself. Don't forget that ESPN drove the reaction by media and fans alike, and noteworthy as the loudest voice railing against the officials was Colin Cowherd, a native of -- you guessed it -- Washington state.Close calls can lead people to believe the officials are influencing the game even if they get the calls right. It's conceivable that the NFL officials were conspicuous due simply to an unusually high number of close calls in addition to a few flat out wrong calls last year.

You make some very sound arguments. And I didn't mean to try to justify my stance by stating that because many publications wrote about bad officiating, that it has to be right. I was just using that as an example to combat the list of non-partial FBG's that you supplied that disagreed with me. My stance is based solely, and 100%, on my personal opinion of the game itself and what I saw. I devote way too much time to football, and it leads me to believe in my own opinions on the game. It's possible that I'm wrong, but I cannot see that from where I'm looking.